The Trump

[AbruptSLR]

While it is good news that GOP leaders in 4 key states (Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) have indicated that they will not intervene in the selection of electors (& I do believe that Biden will be then next POTUS); this nevertheless, does leave the small possibility that at the last minute that state officials in at least three key states (say Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin, no matter what their current statements are) from blocking certification of the ballots, due to uncertainty of potential fraud), leaving Biden with only 269 (or less) elector votes, which would throw the selection of the next POTUS to the US House of Representatives, who would likely select Trump.

Title: "GOP leaders in 4 states quash dubious Trump bid on electors"

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-win-fantasy-electors-bid-053422014.html

Extract: "State GOP lawmakers in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have all said they would not intervene in the selection of electors, who ultimately cast the votes that secure a candidate's victory. Such a move would violate state law and a vote of the people, several noted.
…
But unfounded claims about fraud and corruption have been circulating widely in conservative circles since Biden won the election. Asked this week if state lawmakers should invalidate the official results, GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham said, “Everything should be on the table.”

DeSantis urged Pennsylvania and Michigan residents to call state lawmakers and urge them to intervene. “Under Article 2 of the Constitution, presidential electors are done by the legislatures and the schemes they create and the framework. And if there’s departure from that, if they’re not following the law, if they’re ignoring law, then they can provide remedies as well," he said."

Edit, see also:

Title: "Trump Supporters Descend On Washington For Events Contesting Biden's Victory"

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/14/934957728/trump-supporters-descend-on-d-c-for-events-contesting-election-results

Extract: "At one point, the crowd was greeted by President Trump himself, who rode past demonstrators in his mortorcade shortly after 10 a.m. Trump, who has refused to concede the election to Biden, waved to supporters who held out signs reading "Best prez ever" and "Stop the steal.""

[AbruptSLR]

The linked opinion article makes it clear that Trump supporters are exploring an electoral college strategy to use GOP controlled state legislature in swing states to allow Trump to remain POTUS.  Unfortunately, the opinion piece does not point-out that if such an electoral college strategy were to result in a crisis that prevented the electoral college from making Biden on Dec 14, 2020; then the new House of Representatives will elect Trump prior to January 20, 2021.

Title: "The Completely Insane Electoral College Strategy"

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/11/the-completely-insane-electoral-college-strategy-436156

Extract: "The Constitution theoretically gives state legislatures great power over elections, but that’s not a reason to precipitate a constitutional crisis.
…
Donald Trump Jr. has pushed this option and Sen. Lindsey Graham, now bonded to Trump more firmly and completely than he was to the late Sen. John McCain, says “everything should be on the table.” A conservative in the Pennsylvania House, Daryl Metcalfe, has declared, “Our Legislature must be prepared to use all constitutional authority to right the wrong.”
…
There is no doubt state legislatures have enormous power in this area. Article 2 of the Constitution states that “each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress.”

As the book After the People Vote notes, the Constitution doesn’t require a state’s electors to be chosen based on the popular vote, but this has been the norm for almost 200 years. After 1828, only South Carolina’s Legislature directly appointed electors, continuing the practice through 1860.
…
Any such move would also be subject to litigation likely to go all the way to the Supreme Court. Even if the power of the legislatures is vast, there will be a dispute over whether they can ignore the results of elections that, prior to an unwelcome outcome, were supposed to determine the state’s electors."

[vox_mundi]

[AbruptSLR]

Is it a coincidence that many state GOP Michigan legislators are calling for impeachment hears for Democrat Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, just before Michigan is scheduled to certify their election results?

Title: "State lawmaker calls for Gov. Whitmer’s impeachment"

https://www.woodtv.com/news/michigan/state-lawmaker-calls-for-gov-whitmers-impeachment/

Extract: "State Republicans are reacting to the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services’ new emergency order, including one state representative calling for the impeachment of Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

In a tweet, Rep. Matt Maddock said he and a growing list of Michigan legislators will be calling for impeachment hearings after the new restrictions were announced Sunday night."

[vox_mundi]

Trump Coronavirus Adviser Scott Atlas Urges Michigan to 'Rise Up' Against New Covid-19 Measures
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/15/politics/scott-atlas-coronavirus-michigan/index.html

White House coronavirus task force member Dr. Scott Atlas criticized Michigan's new Covid-19 restrictions in a tweet shortly after they were announced Sunday evening, urging people to "rise up" against the new public health measures.

"The only way this stops is if people rise up," Atlas said. "You get what you accept. #FreedomMatters #StepUp"

------------------------------------

... A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the carrier of the plague. You have unbarred the gates of Rome to him. ...

[AbruptSLR]

The linked website presents the current wording of the Article II, Section 1, of the U.S. Constitution; which states:

"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress …"

To some people this clause means that the Governor of each state appoints the state's elector according to the existing rules proscribed by the state legislatures; while other people take this clause to mean that state legislature can appoint the electors.  The correct interpretation of this clause could conceivably become a point of contention in states like Michigan and Pennsylvania where the governor is from one party and the state legislature is controlled by another party, if the electors are not certified by December 8, 2020.

Heading: "Signed in convention September 17, 1787. Ratified June 21, 1788. Portions of Article II, Section 1, were changed by the 12th Amendment and the 25th Amendment"

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/article/article-ii

Extract: "Section 1
The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.
He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.
The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

&

The linked 'MarketPlace' article believe that state governors get to choose electors if the electors are not certified by December 8, 2020.

Title: "How the election certification process works, and why it matters"

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/11/13/how-election-certification-works-when-will-2020-be-certified/

Extract: "Trump’s campaign has filed lawsuits in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Arizona, calling for judges to stop states from certifying election results with claims of election fraud and limits placed on poll watchers. (To be clear, there is no evidence of widespread election fraud. A joint statement released Thursday from federal agencies states the Nov. 3 election “was the most secure in American history.”) If states don’t certify their election results by the deadline, it then falls to the state — usually the executive of that state — to choose electors. The thinking is that those states would choose electors sympathetic to Trump, said Casey Burgat, director of the Legislative Affairs program at the Graduate School of Political Management at George Washington University.
…
“I can’t imagine that across each of those three states, it would be done to that magnitude,” Burgat said. “You’d have to get all of them to make it worthwhile, and that [would be] a lot of votes and a lot of ballots just basically being thrown out.”"

[wili]

Trump was talked down from bombing Iran last week. He's gonna keep trying to create crises before leaving office, since he thrives on chaos

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-considered-attacking-iran-main-nuclear-site-2020-11

[vox_mundi]

https://djtrumplibrary.com/

At djtrumplibrary.com, users can enjoy a visually impressive site which promises among other attractions a “Covid Memorial”, a “Wall of Criminality” and an “Alt-Right Auditorium”. Users are also offered use of a “Hall of Enablers” (among those honoured are senators, governors and the media) and a “Criminal Records Room” in which to study “Tax Evasion 101”.

There is even a “Grift Shop”. As well as offering “Grab a Pussy Cookies” and “Notes of a Stable Genius” notebooks

[sidd]

Trump pardons Flynn:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55080923

Saw that coming a mile away. Next questions, does he pardon himself ? OR resign and have Pence pardon him ? Can you be pre-emptively pardoned ?

sidd

[kassy]

I think there would be a slight technical hiccup since Trump has not actually been convicted of anything there is nothing to pardon.

[SteveMDFP]

I think there would be a slight technical hiccup since Trump has not actually been convicted of anything there is nothing to pardon.

I don't think so.  Nixon was pardoned by Ford without having been convicted of anything.  All the criminal investigations stopped, because they'd been made moot for criminal justice purposes.  He was pardoned of all crimes that he may have committed.

It's commonly stated that "acceptance" of a pardon is a confession of guilt.  I think this is wrong. A pardon is effectively an instruction to federal criminal justice personnel.  I don't think the "pardonee" needs to admit anything, nor sign an acceptance.  Nixon denied having committed a crime (see his David Frost interview).  This stance did not invalidate his pardon.

[kassy]

Ah crap forgot about that...

Of course that one has not legally been tested. With Nixon it was a way to get out of a situation.
I think he will just forget about it anyway.

The german bank that is the main lender for Trump want to get rid of him in the next few years so that could be interesting.

[karl dubhe2]

Trump pardons Flynn:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55080923

Saw that coming a mile away. Next questions, does he pardon himself ? OR resign and have Pence pardon him ? Can you be pre-emptively pardoned ?

sidd

I'm surprised he did it actually.  There's no profit for him in pardoning Flynn, but there is a risk that Flynn can now be forced to testify in court against Donald, the pardon means that Flynn doesn't need to fear self-incrimination.    Nixon, of course, was pre-emptively pardoned.

Trump probably believes he doesn't need a pardon, that would be an admission (by him) that he did something 'wrong.'   That's not gonna happen.

The next two months are going to be interesting.

[vox_mundi]

DOJ Investigating Potential White House 'Bribery-for-Pardon' Scheme
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1249609

The Justice Department is investigating a potential crime related to funneling money to the White House or related political committee in exchange for a presidential pardon, according to court records unsealed Tuesday in federal court.

The disclosure is in 20 pages of partially redacted documents made public by the DC District Court on Tuesday afternoon. The records show Chief Judge Beryl Howell's review in August of a request from prosecutors to access documents obtained in a search as part of a bribery-for-pardon investigation

... The opinion, entered by Chief Judge Beryl A. Howell on Aug. 28, is tied to an ongoing investigation that may involve at least two individuals who "acted as lobbyists to senior White House officials, without complying with the registration requirement of the Lobbying Disclosure Act… to secure ‘a pardon or reprieve of sentence for'" one individual whose name is redacted.

The investigation also involves an alleged offer by another individual to “offer a substantial political contribution in exchange for a presidential pardon or reprieve of sentence.”

"This political strategy to obtain a presidential pardon was 'parallel' to and distinct from" one individual's role as an attorney advocate for" another individual, the ruling said, redacting both names.

-----------------------------------------------

Trump reportedly discussed possibly pardoning his 3 eldest children, Jared Kushner, and personal attorney Rudy Giuliani with advisors
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-discussed-pardons-for-his-children-giuliani-with-advisors-nyt-2020-12?amp

President Donald Trump discussed with advisors preemptive pardons for his three eldest children — Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump, and Ivanka Trump — as well as his son-in-law Jared Kushner and his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, The New York Times reported Tuesday.

No president has tried to grant pardons for federal crimes not yet committed. It is legal for a president to pardon family members.

It remains unclear what potential crimes the president could be preemptively pardoning. The power of the presidential pardon does not extend to state or local crimes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/01/us/politics/rudy-giuliani-pardon.html

[Freegrass]

@realDonaldTrump is a petulant child with 70 million idiots behind him that all believe in the power to walk on water.

Reality (science) is not for religious nutcases!

America is getting destroyed by religious extremism and the complete void of reason and believe in science.

[Tom_Mazanec]

Freegrass, I can't read that 1 point writing.

[oren]

If you quote you'll be able to read it.

[gerontocrat]

This is wot freegrass rote

@realDonaldTrump is a petulant child with 70 million idiots behind him that all believe in the power to walk on water.

Reality (science) is not for religious nutcases!

America is getting destroyed by religious extremism and the complete void of reason and believe in science.

[WildFit]

@realDonaldTrump is a petulant child with 70 million idiots behind him that all believe in the power to walk on water.

Reality (science) is not for religious nutcases!

America is getting destroyed by religious extremism and the complete void of reason and believe in science.

He is not religious at all but pretends to be to reach out to those guys to vote for him.

This doesn't take anything away from what you said, just added an important detail as to he being religious. ( a true believer )

Most so called religious people got stuck in the old testamont and are far away from being christian in the meaning of being forgiveful, tolerant and love to love you fellow humans like themeselves.

Most religious people are cherry picking from their appropriate guides (Bible, Quran etc.) To justify their evil doings. Even some real believers tend to get nasty in the name of god if things or someone doesn't function their way.

In short, he is a pharisee at best and certainly a hypocrite which are kind of synonyms.

[wili]

He's not actually pro-life either, and neither is the new SCOTUS conservative majority:

Brandon Bernard executed after Supreme Court denies request for a delay

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/10/politics/brandon-bernard-executed/index.html

[Tom_Mazanec]

He's not actually pro-life either, and neither is the new SCOTUS conservative majority:

Brandon Bernard executed after Supreme Court denies request for a delay

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/10/politics/brandon-bernard-executed/index.html

Catholic theology accepts, reluctantly, the possible morality of the Death Penalty. It is innocent human life which is sacrosanct. However, that is dependent on circumstances. Thus, Capitol Punishment may have been a necessary evil after the Fall of Rome and in the Dark Ages, but is not so in 2020 America.

[wili]

Not since 2018:

Modification to the Catholic catechism (2018):

On 2 August 2018, it was announced that the Catechism of the Catholic Church would be revised to state that the Church teaches that "the death penalty is inadmissible because it is an attack on the inviolability and dignity of the person".

(my emphases)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_capital_punishment

(Since basically no human is 'innocent' once puberty hits, any other position would be advocating killing any teen or adult would be justifiable)

[Tom_Mazanec]

Edward Feser argues this is not dogmatic:
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2018/08/pope-francis-and-capital-punishment.html
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2019/01/finnis-on-capital-punishment.html
https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/09/39641/
and last I heard he has not been Excommunicated for Heresy. But right or wrong in principle, it is inadmissible in practice here and now.
But killing one guilty adult is different from killing hundreds of thousands of innocent babies.

[oren]

Please avoid discussing such abortion arguments (again and again). Whether Trump ia a pro-lifer or not can be argued.

[Tom_Mazanec]

Even if he is not prolife he is more prolife than the Democratic alternative specifically for this reason. wili brought up the prolife issue and abortion, in this time and place, is a large majority (not all, but mostly) of that issue.

[karl dubhe2]

Even if he is not prolife he is more prolife than the Democratic alternative specifically for this reason. wili brought up the prolife issue and abortion, in this time and place, is a large majority (not all, but mostly) of that issue.

Please stop.   This is a topic that should be discussed elsewhere.   Otherwise I will chime in with my opinion of your actual beliefs.    You will not like it, and we'll both end up getting banned.

[greylib]

Even if he is not prolife he is more prolife than the Democratic alternative specifically for this reason. wili brought up the prolife issue and abortion, in this time and place, is a large majority (not all, but mostly) of that issue.

Please stop.   This is a topic that should be discussed elsewhere.   Otherwise I will chime in with my opinion of your actual beliefs.    You will not like it, and we'll both end up getting banned.

I firmly believe that it should be off-topic across the whole forum. There are many hundreds, probably thousands, of forums where pro-choice, pro-life and religion can be and are discussed at length. There are very few places to discuss climate change.

Political debate on this site is important where it touches on our main raison d'être, and ONLY then.

[Tom_Mazanec]

OK, but I voted for the @$$#0£€ solely because of the Right to Life endorsement, so if Trump is an issue in AGW...
EDIT: and it was wili who introduced prolifeness into this page of the thread. So a prochoicer can speak out all he wants for the right to an abortion but I cannot speak out for a preborn baby's right to life?

[kassy]

You were told a number of times not to discuss this so:
1) don´t
2) possibly report wili´s post

3) Also consider that that might have been a reply to some piece of discussion on catholic theology or whatever you introduced. That is just some coloured viewpoint. Is it actually contributing in general?

Most catholics i know do not actually care about those viewpoints because it´s 2020 and we can think for ourselves anyway.

So for content aim at generally relevant stuff not someones dogmatic viewpoint.

[gerontocrat]

A hopeless homeless ex-President ?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/17/trump-mar-a-lago-club-neighbors-florida
Mar-a-Lago neighbors say Trump can’t live there after White House

President signed 1993 agreement with town that says he cannot live at the club for more than three nonconsecutive weeks in a year

Neighbors of Donald Trump’s infamous Mar-a-Lago golf club in Palm Beach, Florida are warning the president that he cannot live at the club after he leaves the White House, following an agreement he made with the town in 1993.

In a letter to the town of Palm Beach and the US Secret Service sent this week, a lawyer representing a family that lives next to Mar-a-Lago reiterated that “Mar-a-Lago is a social club, and no one may reside on the property.”

“To avoid an embarrassing situation for everyone and to give the president time to make other living arrangements in the area, we trust you will work with his team to remind them of the use agreement parameters,” wrote Reginald Stambaugh, the lawyer.

Multiple reports indicate that Trump has already made arrangements to move to the Sunshine State: Trump’s apartment at the club is being renovated and Melania Trump is looking at Florida schools for 14-year-old Barron Trump. And while Trump was largely associated with New York City before his move to Washington, Trump shifted his domicile from New York to Florida in 2019 and voted for himself as a Florida resident this year.

The members-only club was once the residential estate of Marjorie Merriweather Post, an American socialite, up until 1985 when Trump purchased the estate with the goal of turning it into a money-making venture. Trump signed an agreement in 1993 with the local government of Palm Beach that would allow him to turn the private residence into a business so long as he followed a set of rules, including a limitation on how many days of the year Trump can live at Mar-a-Lago.

The agreement says that Trump cannot live at the club for more than three nonconsecutive weeks in a year, which does not bode well with the president’s plan to permanently move to the club once he moves out of the White House.

If Trump does move forward with plans to live at the club, he could be setting himself up for a complicated legal battle with the town. Meanwhile, the US Secret Service must make painstaking plans to arrange agents around wherever Trump decides to live as a private citizen, potentially setting the agency up with a clash between local laws and Trump’s demands.

While Mar-a-Lago’s neighbors appear friendly to Trump’s policy stances – Trump received the majority of votes from Palm Beach residents who live on the same coastal strip as the club – neighbors have indicated the town let him get away with breaking rules within the agreement over the last four years because of his role as president. All the while, residents reportedly dealt with issues around traffic, security and noise.

“It’s been a circus there for four years and they’re fed up with it,” a Palm Beach resident told CNN.

In his letter, the lawyer for the Palm Beach family hinted the town’s residents are fine with having Trump as a neighbor, just not if he chooses to live at his golf club.

“Palm Beach has many lovely estates for sale,” the letter said. “Surely he can find one which meets his needs.”

[kassy]

He has some more houses.

I think his presidential library will also be a hotel and have a golf course.
Just a couple of displays in MAL and an official designation for it would win me that bet. The four displays would show us a presidentially improved storm prediction, a signed otherwise empty page as actually used in a presidential way on TV, a big envelope from North Korea and the enigmatic fourth box labelled ´All My Mistakes´ which is otherwise empty. This is suspected to be concept art.   

[interstitial]

A hopeless homeless ex-President ?

There are several state penitentiaries vying for the opportunity to house him.

[vox_mundi]

[Tom_Mazanec]

Trump knows what to do:
https://www.gocomics.com/overthehedge/2020/12/24

[kassy]

The first one does not really work , something with the perspective of the joke is wrong. Maybe just focusing on Putin vs your own elected asshole is.

The second one is good though and you can play with the caption. (There are more important things but the general golf as it falls down idea works).

[Alexander555]

I hope he goes for a next round.

[karl dubhe2]

He's not actually pro-life either, and neither is the new SCOTUS conservative majority:

Brandon Bernard executed after Supreme Court denies request for a delay

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/10/politics/brandon-bernard-executed/index.html

Catholic theology accepts, [lots of stuff, clipped].

Their doctrine of original sin refutes the idea that there are any innocent lives.   Of course, that doctrine is also refuted by the evidence for evolution...

[Alexander555]

The Sons of Trump, the saviours of the planet earth. Because if you look at that pic, that's 3 billion people that are basically getting exterminated to support the supply chains of the international globalist swamp creaturs.

[kassy]

End of year crack binge? Do elaborate to proof it´s not.

[Alexander555]

And probably it's only going to get worse. This morning there was something on Bloomberg that China is going to roll out a vast 5G network. For myself i have no idea what the impact could be, i just don't have the knowledge. But i remember something in the news, the regular news on television. Some scientists warned that you should not hold your smarthphone against your head for to long. So if you know more about it, let us know. Because if you add up everything. The airpollution, the heavy metals in the fish, the chemicals in the food and drinks....Than how will we look like in the future. Like an audiance of the zombi apocalips ? And for what ?

[kassy]

You forgot global warming.

The smartphone causing damage by radiation did not really pan out. Of course it promotes all kind of other really detrimental behaviour but that is beyond the scope of this thread.

If you are worried about airpollution, the heavy metals in the fish end the chemicals in the food and drinks then you should not support Trump because he does not care about that.

[Alexander555]

So there is no potential damage ?

[Alexander555]

I understand it should not be in this thread. But if you click at the link close to the top, 5G EU, US..... https://www.jrseco.com/european-union-5g-appeal-scientists-warn-of-potential-serious-health-effects-of-5g/

[Alexander555]

I think even the zombies want go to China anymore in less than 10 years from now.

[vox_mundi]

[vox_mundi]

... once a grifter; always a grifter ...

‘I Just Want to Find 11,780 Votes’: In WH Call, Trump Demands Georgia Officials 'Find' Votes to Tilt Election
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/03/politics/donald-trump-brad-raffensperger-call-washington-post/index.html

President Donald Trump pushed Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to "find" votes to overturn the election results after his loss to President-elect Biden, according to an audio recording of a phone call obtained by The Washington Post. (... this is called voter fraud)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

"The people of Georgia are angry, the people in the country are angry. And there's nothing wrong with saying that, you know, um, that you've recalculated," Trump said in one excerpt of the call. Raffensperger responded, "Well, Mr. President, the challenge that you have is, the data you have is wrong."

In another excerpt, Trump said, "So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state."

Raffensperger responded to Trump later in a tweet: "Respectfully, President Trump: What you're saying is not true. The truth will come out."

During their conversation, Trump issued a vague threat to both Raffensperger and Ryan Germany, the secretary of state’s general counsel, suggesting that if they don’t find that thousands of ballots in Fulton County have been illegally destroyed to block investigators — an allegation for which there is no evidence — they would be subject to criminal liability.

“That’s a criminal offense,” he said. “And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.”

“So tell me, Brad, what are we going to do? We won the election, and it’s not fair to take it away from us like this,” Trump said. “And it’s going to be very costly in many ways. And I think you have to say that you’re going to reexamine it, and you can reexamine it, but reexamine it with people that want to find answers, not people who don’t want to find answers.”

The secretary of state repeatedly sought to push back, saying at one point, “Mr. President, the problem you have with social media, they — people can say anything.”

“Oh this isn’t social media,” Trump retorted. “This is Trump media. It’s not social media. It’s really not. It’s not social media. I don’t care about social media. I couldn’t care less.”

... The Post also reported that White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, lawyer Cleta Mitchell and other Republican allies of the President were also on the call.

... "You want to investigate election fraud? Start with this," Sen. Schumer, a New York Democrat, wrote in a tweet aimed at Sen. Cruz that included a link to the Washington Post's report.

Legal experts said by exhorting the secretary of state to “find” votes and to deploy investigators who “want to find answers,” Trump appears to be encouraging him to doctor the election outcome in Georgia. Also, it's clear that the call was “inappropriate and contemptible” and should prompt moral outrage.

“He was already tripping the emergency meter,” ... “So we were at 12 on a scale of 1 to 10, and now we’re at 15.”

----------------------------------------

Dan Rather's response:
https://mobile.twitter.com/DanRather/status/1345579105043943424

But where are the clowns?
Quick, send in the clowns
Don't bother they're here.

--------------------------------------

'Bring In the Clowns'

Barbra Streisand - 2019

He says he’s rich
Maybe he’s poor
‘Til he reveals his returns
Who can be sure
Who is this clown?

Something’s amiss
I don’t approve
Now that he’s running the free world
Where can we move?
Maybe a town!
Just who is this clown?

This is not a farce
It’s not just smoke
Is this his “Art of the Deal” or some awful joke?
You’ve got to admit
This fraudulent twit
Is so full of …

[vox_mundi]

Trump just committed multiple federal election fraud felonies that are punishable by imprisonment for up to 5-20 years

Trump may also have landed himself in legal peril at the state level. According to Politico reporter Kyle Cheney, “conspiracy to commit election fraud” and “criminal solicitation to commit election fraud” are both crimes in Georgia, and some legal experts believe Trump’s comments Saturday violated state law.

http://ga.elaws.us/law/21-2%7C15

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1345805510944174087?s=20

-----------------------------------

Ryan Struyk @ryanstruyk · 4h
https://mobile.twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1345802492639137794

52 US Code §20511 makes it illegal to "knowingly and willfully... attempt to deprive or defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process" by "the procurement... of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false."

https://www.justice.gov/usao-nh/pr/federal-election-fraud-fact-sheet#:~:text=%C2%A7%2020511).,or%20impersonating%20voters%20(52%20U.S.C.

§20511. Criminal penalties
A person, including an election official, who in any election for Federal office-

(1) knowingly and willfully intimidates, threatens, or coerces, or attempts to intimidate, threaten, or coerce, any person for-

(A) registering to vote, or voting, or attempting to register or vote;

(B) urging or aiding any person to register to vote, to vote, or to attempt to register or vote; or

(C) exercising any right under this chapter; or


(2) knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to deprive or defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by-

(A) the procurement or submission of voter registration applications that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held; or
(B) the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held, shall be fined in accordance with title 18 (which fines shall be paid into the general fund of the Treasury, miscellaneous receipts (pursuant to section 3302 of title 31), notwithstanding any other law), or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

( Pub. L. 103–31, §12, May 20, 1993, 107 Stat. 88 .)

https://uscode.house.gov/statviewer.htm?volume=107&page=88

Specifically, under 18 U.S.C. § 1519, “[w]hoever knowingly … conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record [or] document … with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States … or in relation to or contemplation of any such matter or case” commits a twenty-year felony. The Department applied this statute, in conjunction with 18 U.S.C. § 2,

[vox_mundi]

All 10 Living Former Defense Secretaries Declare Election Is Over In Forceful Public Letter
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/03/politics/trump-election-defense-secretaries-public-letter/index.html

All 10 living former US defense secretaries declared that the US presidential election is over in a forceful public letter published in The Washington Post on Sunday as President Donald Trump continues to deny his election loss to Joe Biden.

The letter -- signed by Dick Cheney, James Mattis, Mark Esper, Leon Panetta, Donald Rumsfeld, William Cohen, Chuck Hagel, Robert Gates, William Perry and Ashton Carter -- amounts to a remarkable show of force against Trump's subversion efforts just days before Congress is set to count Electoral College votes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/10-former-defense-secretaries-military-peaceful-transfer-of-power/2021/01/03/2a23d52e-4c4d-11eb-a9f4-0e668b9772ba_story.html

"Our elections have occurred. Recounts and audits have been conducted. Appropriate challenges have been addressed by the courts. Governors have certified the results. And the electoral college has voted. The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the Constitution and statute, has arrived," the group wrote.

The letter follows Trump's removal of Esper in November as part of a set of sweeping changes atop the Defense Department's civilian leadership structure that included the installation of perceived loyalists to the President.

The shakeup put officials inside the Pentagon on edge and fueled a growing sense of alarm among military and civilian officials.

... Cohen, a Republican who served as Secretary of Defense under President Bill Clinton, told CNN's Ana Cabrera on "Newsroom" shortly after the letter was published that the "highly unusual" step was warranted given the "unconstitutional path" Trump has taken the country.

"It was really our attempt to call out to the American people. We believe all of them are patriotic. They've been led down a path by President Trump, which is an unconstitutional path. And so we felt it was incumbent on us as having served in the Defense Department to say: Please all of you in the Defense Department, you've taken an oath to serve this country, this Constitution, not any given individual," he said.

[greylib]

Trump just committed multiple federal election fraud felonies that are punishable by imprisonment for up to 5-20 years

Trump may also have landed himself in legal peril at the state level. According to Politico reporter Kyle Cheney, “conspiracy to commit election fraud” and “criminal solicitation to commit election fraud” are both crimes in Georgia, and some legal experts believe Trump’s comments Saturday violated state law.

I've check the law, and in Georgia it's quite legal to record a telephone conversation, even if one party is unaware of the recording.

However, Trump's lawyers will no doubt argue that ANYTHING the President says is classified. Therefore the recording of the phonecall, the leaking of it, and its spread all over the media is TREASONOUS.

Time to put the barricades up.

[vox_mundi]