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Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 858199 times)

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6200 on: November 14, 2020, 06:51:17 PM »
While it is good news that GOP leaders in 4 key states (Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) have indicated that they will not intervene in the selection of electors (& I do believe that Biden will be then next POTUS); this nevertheless, does leave the small possibility that at the last minute that state officials in at least three key states (say Georgia, Arizona and Wisconsin, no matter what their current statements are) from blocking certification of the ballots, due to uncertainty of potential fraud), leaving Biden with only 269 (or less) elector votes, which would throw the selection of the next POTUS to the US House of Representatives, who would likely select Trump.

Title: "GOP leaders in 4 states quash dubious Trump bid on electors"

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-win-fantasy-electors-bid-053422014.html

Extract: "State GOP lawmakers in Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin have all said they would not intervene in the selection of electors, who ultimately cast the votes that secure a candidate's victory. Such a move would violate state law and a vote of the people, several noted.

But unfounded claims about fraud and corruption have been circulating widely in conservative circles since Biden won the election. Asked this week if state lawmakers should invalidate the official results, GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham said, “Everything should be on the table.”

DeSantis urged Pennsylvania and Michigan residents to call state lawmakers and urge them to intervene. “Under Article 2 of the Constitution, presidential electors are done by the legislatures and the schemes they create and the framework. And if there’s departure from that, if they’re not following the law, if they’re ignoring law, then they can provide remedies as well," he said."

Edit, see also:

Title: "Trump Supporters Descend On Washington For Events Contesting Biden's Victory"

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/14/934957728/trump-supporters-descend-on-d-c-for-events-contesting-election-results

Extract: "At one point, the crowd was greeted by President Trump himself, who rode past demonstrators in his mortorcade shortly after 10 a.m. Trump, who has refused to concede the election to Biden, waved to supporters who held out signs reading "Best prez ever" and "Stop the steal.""
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 07:05:39 PM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6201 on: November 16, 2020, 01:07:50 AM »
The linked opinion article makes it clear that Trump supporters are exploring an electoral college strategy to use GOP controlled state legislature in swing states to allow Trump to remain POTUS.  Unfortunately, the opinion piece does not point-out that if such an electoral college strategy were to result in a crisis that prevented the electoral college from making Biden on Dec 14, 2020; then the new House of Representatives will elect Trump prior to January 20, 2021.

Title: "The Completely Insane Electoral College Strategy"

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/11/the-completely-insane-electoral-college-strategy-436156

Extract: "The Constitution theoretically gives state legislatures great power over elections, but that’s not a reason to precipitate a constitutional crisis.

Donald Trump Jr. has pushed this option and Sen. Lindsey Graham, now bonded to Trump more firmly and completely than he was to the late Sen. John McCain, says “everything should be on the table.” A conservative in the Pennsylvania House, Daryl Metcalfe, has declared, “Our Legislature must be prepared to use all constitutional authority to right the wrong.”

There is no doubt state legislatures have enormous power in this area. Article 2 of the Constitution states that “each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress.”

As the book After the People Vote notes, the Constitution doesn’t require a state’s electors to be chosen based on the popular vote, but this has been the norm for almost 200 years. After 1828, only South Carolina’s Legislature directly appointed electors, continuing the practice through 1860.

Any such move would also be subject to litigation likely to go all the way to the Supreme Court. Even if the power of the legislatures is vast, there will be a dispute over whether they can ignore the results of elections that, prior to an unwelcome outcome, were supposed to determine the state’s electors."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6202 on: November 16, 2020, 02:09:30 PM »


« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 03:27:19 PM by vox_mundi »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6203 on: November 16, 2020, 03:47:19 PM »
Is it a coincidence that many state GOP Michigan legislators are calling for impeachment hears for Democrat Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, just before Michigan is scheduled to certify their election results?

Title: "State lawmaker calls for Gov. Whitmer’s impeachment"

https://www.woodtv.com/news/michigan/state-lawmaker-calls-for-gov-whitmers-impeachment/

Extract: "State Republicans are reacting to the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services’ new emergency order, including one state representative calling for the impeachment of Gov. Gretchen Whitmer.

In a tweet, Rep. Matt Maddock said he and a growing list of Michigan legislators will be calling for impeachment hearings after the new restrictions were announced Sunday night."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6204 on: November 16, 2020, 04:07:51 PM »
Trump Coronavirus Adviser Scott Atlas Urges Michigan to 'Rise Up' Against New Covid-19 Measures
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/15/politics/scott-atlas-coronavirus-michigan/index.html

White House coronavirus task force member Dr. Scott Atlas criticized Michigan's new Covid-19 restrictions in a tweet shortly after they were announced Sunday evening, urging people to "rise up" against the new public health measures.

"The only way this stops is if people rise up," Atlas said. "You get what you accept. #FreedomMatters #StepUp"

------------------------------------

... A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the carrier of the plague. You have unbarred the gates of Rome to him. ...
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6205 on: November 16, 2020, 11:10:30 PM »
The linked website presents the current wording of the Article II, Section 1, of the U.S. Constitution; which states:

"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress …"

To some people this clause means that the Governor of each state appoints the state's elector according to the existing rules proscribed by the state legislatures; while other people take this clause to mean that state legislature can appoint the electors.  The correct interpretation of this clause could conceivably become a point of contention in states like Michigan and Pennsylvania where the governor is from one party and the state legislature is controlled by another party, if the electors are not certified by December 8, 2020.

Heading: "Signed in convention September 17, 1787. Ratified June 21, 1788. Portions of Article II, Section 1, were changed by the 12th Amendment and the 25th Amendment"

https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/article/article-ii

Extract: "Section 1
The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.
He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.
The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.
The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

&

The linked 'MarketPlace' article believe that state governors get to choose electors if the electors are not certified by December 8, 2020.

Title: "How the election certification process works, and why it matters"

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/11/13/how-election-certification-works-when-will-2020-be-certified/

Extract: "Trump’s campaign has filed lawsuits in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Arizona, calling for judges to stop states from certifying election results with claims of election fraud and limits placed on poll watchers. (To be clear, there is no evidence of widespread election fraud. A joint statement released Thursday from federal agencies states the Nov. 3 election “was the most secure in American history.”) If states don’t certify their election results by the deadline, it then falls to the state — usually the executive of that state — to choose electors. The thinking is that those states would choose electors sympathetic to Trump, said Casey Burgat, director of the Legislative Affairs program at the Graduate School of Political Management at George Washington University.

“I can’t imagine that across each of those three states, it would be done to that magnitude,” Burgat said. “You’d have to get all of them to make it worthwhile, and that [would be] a lot of votes and a lot of ballots just basically being thrown out.”"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6206 on: November 17, 2020, 05:05:22 PM »
Trump was talked down from bombing Iran last week. He's gonna keep trying to create crises before leaving office, since he thrives on chaos

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-considered-attacking-iran-main-nuclear-site-2020-11
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vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6207 on: November 25, 2020, 10:35:23 PM »
https://djtrumplibrary.com/

At djtrumplibrary.com, users can enjoy a visually impressive site which promises among other attractions a “Covid Memorial”, a “Wall of Criminality” and an “Alt-Right Auditorium”. Users are also offered use of a “Hall of Enablers” (among those honoured are senators, governors and the media) and a “Criminal Records Room” in which to study “Tax Evasion 101”.

There is even a “Grift Shop”. As well as offering “Grab a Pussy Cookies” and “Notes of a Stable Genius” notebooks
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6208 on: November 26, 2020, 05:55:37 AM »
Trump pardons Flynn:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55080923

Saw that coming a mile away. Next questions, does he pardon himself ? OR resign and have Pence pardon him ? Can you be pre-emptively pardoned ?

sidd

kassy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6209 on: November 26, 2020, 01:31:48 PM »
I think there would be a slight technical hiccup since Trump has not actually been convicted of anything there is nothing to pardon.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6210 on: November 26, 2020, 04:27:52 PM »
I think there would be a slight technical hiccup since Trump has not actually been convicted of anything there is nothing to pardon.

I don't think so.  Nixon was pardoned by Ford without having been convicted of anything.  All the criminal investigations stopped, because they'd been made moot for criminal justice purposes.  He was pardoned of all crimes that he may have committed.

It's commonly stated that "acceptance" of a pardon is a confession of guilt.  I think this is wrong. A pardon is effectively an instruction to federal criminal justice personnel.  I don't think the "pardonee" needs to admit anything, nor sign an acceptance.  Nixon denied having committed a crime (see his David Frost interview).  This stance did not invalidate his pardon.

kassy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6211 on: November 27, 2020, 12:35:17 PM »
Ah crap forgot about that...

Of course that one has not legally been tested. With Nixon it was a way to get out of a situation.
I think he will just forget about it anyway.

The german bank that is the main lender for Trump want to get rid of him in the next few years so that could be interesting.
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karl dubhe2

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6212 on: Today at 01:05:01 AM »
Trump pardons Flynn:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55080923

Saw that coming a mile away. Next questions, does he pardon himself ? OR resign and have Pence pardon him ? Can you be pre-emptively pardoned ?

sidd

I'm surprised he did it actually.  There's no profit for him in pardoning Flynn, but there is a risk that Flynn can now be forced to testify in court against Donald, the pardon means that Flynn doesn't need to fear self-incrimination.    Nixon, of course, was pre-emptively pardoned.

Trump probably believes he doesn't need a pardon, that would be an admission (by him) that he did something 'wrong.'   That's not gonna happen.

The next two months are going to be interesting.