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Who are you going to vote for?

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31 (70.5%)
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Voting closed: November 26, 2016, 07:11:49 AM

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 832053 times)

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2300 on: April 30, 2017, 09:50:20 AM »
We are already getting blown up, we are already getting screwed by different groups of kleptocrats (who, unlike us, don't think in borders at all), and Trump is just part of the same problem. So, if you work at solving that problem at its root, you cannot logically lose sight of Trump. However, if you do keep too much of your focus on Trump, either his personality or the shenanigans (he probably pulls on purpose to stay in the centre of attention), our actions will be fragmented. And fragmentation means polarization and conflict (divide and conquer).

And that's exactly what the mainstream media and their owners want us to do. Hence the 'Russia, Russia, Russia!'.
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be cause

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2301 on: April 30, 2017, 10:59:42 AM »
Hurray ! 100 days and we are nearly all still alive ... :)
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
 (phew)

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2302 on: April 30, 2017, 06:10:15 PM »
Jimmy Dore has a great video showing how Trump has betrayed his voters so far:


While Trump is betraying his supporters, they're cheering him on! I don't get it, it's as if a large minority of the country's voters have taken leave of their senses. Given the other choice (Clinton) they had last November, I can see why some people voted for Trump. I was expecting that a lot of Trump voters would have buyer's remorse by now, but that isn't the case.

BudM
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 06:15:42 PM by budmantis »

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2303 on: April 30, 2017, 06:26:22 PM »
While Trump is betraying his supporters, they're cheering him on! I don't get it, it's as if a large minority of the country's voters have taken leave of their senses.

BudM

Maybe that's how Trump wants to make it look, and you will always have a group of people who won't ever change their views (like with climate risk deniers), but I believe that the majority is still smart enough to see when they're being played.

So, what needs to happen, is for Trump to blatantly f**k them over clearly enough for one part of this majority to see, that just like when they voted for Obama who promised them change, they see they were betrayed. The other part of the majority of Trump voters, voted for him as a 'fuck you' to the establishment (and the oligarchs behind them). I don't think a lot of them actually believe that Trump is going to make true on his promises. Most people, even if they're not intellectuals, are smart enough to recognize a con man.

That's why I think the Russiagate-thing is counterproductive. It will only make a martyr of Trump, and either strengthen his position (forcing the other duopoly oligarchs to align behind him), or, if he gets impeached, sets the stage for an even worse and smarter sociopath. It is important that he doesn't get the Republican Party fully behind him (and united) and that he gets the time to really fail, make the rich even richer and screw over the little man.

And then, what you need, is a person who will say the same things as Trump and Obama, but then actually have the integrity and transparency to follow through. Maybe Sanders is that person. Or Warren. Or someone younger.

Again, watch that latest Jimmy Dore video I posted in this thread. That's the way to talk to that majority of Trump voters. But there has to be a real alternative in four years that cannot be stopped by Corporate Democrat foul play or a deliberate lack of mainstream media attention.

That's what's in the balance right now.
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2304 on: April 30, 2017, 08:18:38 PM »

Quote
And then, what you need, is a person who will say the same things as Trump and Obama, but then actually have the integrity and transparency to follow through. Maybe Sanders is that person. Or Warren. Or someone younger.

Yes....someone like Sanders or Warren.....WHO BOTH SUPPORTED CLINTON FOR PRESIDENT.  AND WHO BOTH SUPPORTED OBAMA FOR PRESIDENT.

I. So....if Bernie and Liz don't know that Hillary and Barry are "Kleptocrats".....who is going to tell them the bad news?

II.  OR......if Bernie and Liz ALREADY KNOW that Barry and Hillary are Kleptocrats....that would mean that we can't trust Bernie and Liz either....because "they are in on it."

So which one is it?....: Either Bernie and Liz are also secretly Kleptocrats......OR.....somebody needs to inform them the bad news about Obama and Clinton.

I'm dying to find out which one it is.....

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2305 on: April 30, 2017, 08:41:42 PM »
Don't die, use your brains. There's another possibility:

III. Sanders and Warren are politicians, and politics is the art of the possible. Good politicians build bridges instead of burning them. Maybe they're hoping they can reform the Democratic Party from the inside out, because it's the only way to beat the (bad people from the) Republican Party. And so, at the surface, they will work with Corporate Democrats (for instance the Unity Tour Sanders is doing with Perez), but perhaps a struggle is going on that we can't see.

The question is: What does the Democratic Party unite behind? Perez' and Pelosi's empty rhetoric, or Sanders' progressive message? You probably don't watch the videos I post, but if you can, watch this one I linked earlier: .

That's the battle that needs to be won if you want a real chance at beating Trump and perhaps get systemic change (ie no more oligarchic rule by whichever group of megawealthy). And that's why I opened a separate thread on Corporate Democrats.
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Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2306 on: April 30, 2017, 09:32:14 PM »
Here's another longish video from TheRealNewsNetwork (TRNN) from March that I find interesting. It's called Trump and The War Within the American Oligarchy:

! No longer available

From the transcript:

Quote
So, we're trying to cover Trump so we get at the sort of underpinning, so people understand that we're not just trying to vilify this guy, Trump. These days I very much have in my mind when I'm doing interviews and we're talking about stories, ordinary people who voted for Trump. It's easy to be part of a chorus that just attacks Trump. Like, for example, on the impeachment campaign. Impeach Trump. Yeah, I'm sure on the face of it there's plenty of legitimate reasons to impeach Trump. And one of the arguments against impeaching Trump is that you're going to get Pence and perhaps a more efficient, less chaotic White House with the same kind of objectives. And in that sense, even more dangerous.

But that isn't to me the most important point. The more important point is what do you say to all the people who believed he was a real alternative, that had given up on Obama, and this kind of neo-liberal hyper-capitalist politics that calls itself liberal -- what do you say to them? You know, the guys like 40 days in and you already want to impeach the guy.

If you want to win people over to a vision of the world which is neither Trumpism, or corporate Democratism, how are you going to win ordinary people over by already trashing this guy at such a level? I'm not in any way saying don't vigorously, viciously critique the policy and critique the underlying ideology. But just to call to impeach the guy, right away? So, what we're trying to do is, at a systemic, analytical level, really understand what this division in the oligarchy is.

(...)

So, when we cover Trump we have to do two things. We need to understand how this oligarchy works. What the splits are. Why they're doing what they're doing. But something we have to do way more than they are, because too much of our discussion is at the level of policy wonk. People that like having policy conversations and understanding this systemically.

What we're going to do is we're going to go into areas where ordinary working people voted for Trump, and start talking to them, and reporting on their problems, on their concerns, and then contextualize, you know, what do real solutions look like? And are any of the solutions coming from Trump-style politics? Are they real solutions? Like, is a tariff wall a real solution for jobs? So, we're going to work our way through the various policy things.

Too much of the coverage of Trump right now is ratings-driven. In the internet world it's click bait. Have a great, really good anti-trump headline and it'll get tons of views. In the broadcast world, let's have a really hot debate or CNN can slam Trump on something, or MSNBC, and they'll get more ratings because people are genuinely upset.
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sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2307 on: April 30, 2017, 09:38:29 PM »
Re: 1968 election. Nixon conspired with S. Vietnam to sabotage the Paris talks to hurt his opposition.

Re: 1980. Reagan did the same with Iran to delay hostage release until after the election to hurt his opposition.

Are these not cases of foreign nations conspiring with one candidate in a presidential election to hurt the other ?

sidd

PS. This should have been posted to the russiagate thread. I do so now.

DrTskoul

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2308 on: April 30, 2017, 09:38:36 PM »
Quote
The more important point is what do you say to all the people who believed he was a real alternative, that had given up on Obama, and this kind of neo-liberal hyper-capitalist politics that calls itself liberal -- what do you say to them

Isn't Trump and his cabinet, and all his executive actions and law proposals so far the embodiment of capitalism? How can people say he was the alternative to hyper capitalist politics ??  Sigh...

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2309 on: April 30, 2017, 09:51:47 PM »
Isn't Trump and his cabinet, and all his executive actions and law proposals so far the embodiment of capitalism? How can people say he was the alternative to hyper capitalist politics ??  Sigh...

My guess is there are people who voted for Trump who really believed what he said. And there are people who voted for him as a big middle finger to the establishment.

Basically, nobody is saying he's an alternative to hyper capitalistic politics, least of all TRNN's chief editor Paul Jay.

IMO he's asking a good question: What do you say to all the people who believed he was a real alternative, that had given up on Obama, and this kind of neo-liberal hyper-capitalist politics that calls itself liberal -- what do you say to them? When you impeach their guy so fast, before they can even see how he's betraying them? I think you'll either turn him into a martyr, or when you fail, you have just set fire to the Reichstag and strengthen his position and that of the Republicans.

But you need to win those people over if you want to achieve systemic changes, so that the oligarchs (whichever subgroup) no longer dominate American political life. I fully agree with Paul Jay on that.

Watch the video if you have the time. It's really interesting.
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budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2310 on: May 01, 2017, 07:39:54 AM »
In a CBS-tv interview with President Trump, he stated that North Korea's King Jong Un was a smart cookie!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39764834

Perhaps the great leader of North Korea should become a contestant on Celebrity Apprentice?

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2311 on: May 01, 2017, 07:41:22 AM »
Boy, these guys wont leave it alone.

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/330872-house-science-committee-referring-clinton-it-company-to-doj-for

Mr. Suazo is in a very tough spot.

sidd


Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2312 on: May 01, 2017, 06:02:55 PM »
Quote
Boy, these guys wont leave it alone.

That is Lamar Smith.....head of the House Science Committee....and one of the big climate deniers in Congress.

Right now there are two things the Republicans are trying to do:

1)  Somehow promote fossil fuels and "poo poo" renewable energy.  Rick Perry....the Secretary of Energy (and the former governor of Texas.....where Lamar Smith is from) is trying to show that "renewable energy isn't reliable enough for the grid" (I'm paraphrasing that quote).

2)  Deflect attention away from RussiaGate to ANYTHING ELSE.   Lamar Smith is a real "jewel".

What you see now is Donnie has boxed himself in:

I.  He hasn't been able to get rid of Obamacare.  Even if the House DOES pass the House bill this week (which right now looks doubtful).....it won't pass the Senate.

II.  The Democrat's may not take up serious discussions on tax reform until Donnie shows his tax returns.  And we all know Donnie doesn't want to do that.  I hope the Dem's hold firm on that.

III.  The only "safe play" for Donnie to get anything done right now....looks to be in infrastructure.  And here.....we will have to see if the Democrat's stand pat on NOT allowing the border wall.  Keep in mind that there are many REPUBLICANS in Texas and Arizona that DO NOT want the wall either.  I don't have to even mention California...because they obviously don't want it.

One thing Donnie "might" be able to do.....is get something on his wall in an infrastructure bill IF he would then change/amend/improve Obamacare in return.  But I don't see that happening.....

So Donnie is in somewhat of a pickle right now on the legislative front.....

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2313 on: May 01, 2017, 06:53:56 PM »
Here is a short clip of 90 seconds.  This is just one more look at one VERY SICK PUPPY......



The reason he is so dangerous....is that he is DILLUSIONAL.  That part of his sociopath composition.  We don't KNOW to what degree he will "go off the deep end."  But CLEARLY he is dangerous as long as he is in office.   
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2314 on: May 01, 2017, 06:55:59 PM »
A sedate and historical long-read.

How Trump Could Get Fired

The Constitution offers two main paths for removing a President from office. How feasible are they?
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/08/how-trump-could-get-fired
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2315 on: May 01, 2017, 07:15:17 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Donald Trump just gave two incredibly bizarre (and fact-free) interviews".  Welcome to the post-fact political world.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/01/politics/donald-trump-andrew-jackson-wiretapping/

Extract: "Opinions, of course, aren't facts. The problem is that Trump doesn't know or doesn't care about that. And his supporters believe whatever he tells them to believe. Which means we are in a post-fact political world. And that is scary as hell."
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2316 on: May 01, 2017, 07:51:07 PM »
I.  So....Donnie wants a new holiday........"Loyalty Day" (has an old "German sound to it).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/05/01/may-1-is-loyalty-day-in-america-heres-trumps-view-of-the-day-and-obamas/?utm_term=.26058d7e0471


II.  So....Donnie doesn't like the Constitution and wants to change it.  Thinks "its really bad for the country.":
http://www.salon.com/2017/05/01/donald-trump-doesnt-like-the-archaic-constitution-its-really-a-bad-thing-for-the-country/


III.  And....Donnie wants to put new limits on the first amendment:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/priebus-says-trump-administration-considered-changes-to-libel-laws/ar-BBAzyfj

Do I REALLY have to spell this out to some of you?  REALLY?  When are you going to start to take this seriously? Are some of you folks BEGINNING TO WAKE UP and see the dangers that await us as long as Trump is in office?

I'm sure glad some of the people in Europe, Canada, and Australia don't think this is a big deal.  But I can tell you that from where my ass sits in the US.....this is a LOT more dangerous than many of you folks realize.  And there are a LOT more idiots on the Republican side right now that would go along with him (Lamar Smith, Ted Cruz, Joe Barton, etc..etc...etc) and go as far as he wanted.

And starting next week....we will see how far Donnie is going to try and push his luck.  Because starting next Monday.....Sally Yates will be public enemy #1 for Donnie.  And then we may find out....:

1)  How serious is he about making changing the constitution (hint:  VERY SERIOUS)
2)  How far will Donnie go regarding Korea.  Will he push the envelope and escalate the situation so that he "has to ask for special powers during this dangerous time".  DON'T THINK FOR A MINUTE THAT I AM KIDDING.  If he escalates the Korean situation....he will DEFINITELY ask to do that at some point before or immediately after the conflict would start.

WAKE UP FOLKS.  This is Donnie the sociopath.  We have NEVER had anyone this dangerous.  NOT EVEN CLOSE......
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Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2317 on: May 01, 2017, 08:58:22 PM »

I'm sure glad some of the people in Europe, Canada, and Australia don't think this is a big deal. 

No strawmen, please. Of course, it's a big deal. It's been a big deal ever since Bernie Sanders lost to Clinton in the primaries.

We just don't agree on whether pushing 'Russia, Russia, Russia' is the smartest strategy to get rid of Trump. Because Trump is just a symptom, so you have to be careful how you go about things, lest you enable something worse than Trump before the Democratic Party is sorted out.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2318 on: May 01, 2017, 09:41:29 PM »
Loyalty Day actually goes back to the '20's, but it's not a particularly pretty history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyalty_Day
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2319 on: May 01, 2017, 09:47:08 PM »
Buddy


I think everyone here is aware that Trump is a huge threat to the US & the world. Whether he will prove more destructive than some past presidents is still a matter of conjecture.


What I disprove of is your insistence on ostracizing Putin, who has already proven himself to be a much more positive force for both his countrymen & the world than any recent American leader, although this is a very low standard to apply. [snark/]


Trump's great crime isn't that he won the presidency. Trump's great crimes occur as his presidency unfolds.


You cheered when he lobbed missiles at a Syrian airbase. This was a great crime, yet you cheered.
You cheered when he dropped his biggest bomb on Afghanistan. Why would you do that?
You cheered when he insulted his dinner guest, who happens to head the world's leading economy.


Whenever Trump's reacted militarily you've given him your enthusiastic support???


If you don't want a narcissistic bully leading the "Free World", for god's sake quit cheering him on.
You approve of him breaking international law/tradition, then whine when he contemplates breaking American law/tradition.


Russia, Russia, Russia, News. - Russia, Russia, Russia, News.
Rinse and repeat ad nauseam.


You don't suffer under a Kleptocracy, you exemplify an Idiocracy.
Terry

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2320 on: May 01, 2017, 10:35:38 PM »
Terry, Trump is not big enough of a deal for us to be uncivil on the ASIF.

We all agree Trump is a narcissistic asshole. We just don't agree on how to get rid of him and what he should be replaced with.

I still think it's best if he f***s up enough things so that his blatant lies became obvious even to that part of his base which used their votes for him as a big f*** you finger. If, in the meantime the Democrats are able to present a true alternative (not one with a pretty face like Obama), then there may be a silver lining to Trump after all.

But it won't be over when that happens. It never is.

Either we stop the mega-wealthy from endlessly accumulating more wealth, or we all go under.

And some of the mega-wealthy know this. Steve Bannon said it literally at some talk for right-wing catholics at the Vatican (Opus Dei). I bet you that Steve Mercer - the guy who basically bought Trump's presidency after his other sociopath favourte Ted Cruz had failed - knows this, but a lot of his fellow oligarchs don't (yet).
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2321 on: May 01, 2017, 10:42:59 PM »
Quote
I think everyone here is aware that Trump is a huge threat to the US & the world. Whether he will prove more destructive than some past presidents is still a matter of conjecture.

Conjecture?  Really?  Someone like Trump who wouldn't know the truth on ANY ISSUE if it hit him in the face? Really?  Someone that wants to do away with the EPA?  Conjecture......REALLY?  Someone who doesn't believe in global warming and would be happy to burn all the fossil fuels he can get his hands on.....conjecture.....REALLY?  Someone who would gut the already skewed US tax system so it would be EVEN MORE SCEWED in favor of the rich...conjecture....REALLY.  I could go on and on.  There is no conjecture as noted above.  Policy after policy....Trump would gut the EPA, gut the tax system, gut the social support system.  What more evidence could you POSSIBLY want?  And that is in HIS OWN WORDS.

Quote
What I disprove of is your insistence on ostracizing Putin, who has already proven himself to be a much more positive force for both his countrymen & the world than any recent American leader, although this is a very low standard to apply. [snark/]

I'm not ostracizing Putin (directly).....I'm ostracizing TRUMP.   But now that I understand you are a Putin lover....at least I know where some of your comments are coming from.   I won't wade into the cesspool of what Putin is.....or the wasted opportunity that Putin and his comrades had over the past 15 years.  It isn't relevant here..........

Quote
Trump's great crime isn't that he won the presidency. Trump's great crimes occur as his presidency unfolds.

Well....at least you got SOME of that right.  Yes....Trump's crimes continue....and they will continue depending on how much power the US people and politicians are willing to give him.  But Trump's crimes started when he was running for office.

Winning the presidency is fine for anyone.....just like Lance Armstrong winning the Tour De France was NOT a crime.  The crime was what Armstrong DID during the cycling "campaign".  And that is also one (but only one) of Trump's crimes:  Working with the Russians during the campaign.  Again...that is just ONE of Trump's crimes.....as there will be others that will be prosecuted.

You see....we have election laws as well as security laws in the US.  And it looks like he is going to held accountable for several of them....both BEFORE the election and AFTER the election took place. 
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2322 on: May 01, 2017, 10:46:35 PM »
Winning the presidency is fine for anyone.....just like Lance Armstrong winning the Tour De France was NOT a crime.  The crime was what Armstrong DID during the cycling "campaign". 

This is actually a really good analogy. Almost each of Armstrong's competitors was using doping as well.  ;)
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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2323 on: May 01, 2017, 10:59:34 PM »
Quote
But it won't be over when that happens. It never is.

Either we stop the mega-wealthy from endlessly accumulating more wealth, or we all go under.

And some of the mega-wealthy know this. Steve Bannon said it literally at some talk for right-wing catholics at the Vatican (Opus Dei). I bet you that Steve Mercer - the guy who basically bought Trump's presidency after his other sociopath favourte Ted Cruz had failed - knows this, but a lot of his fellow oligarchs don't (yet).

What frustrates me most about you Neven.....is that you don't realize or understand JUST HOW CLOSE our thoughts are on the above issues.  You really have NO IDEA.

But you and I have VAST DIFFERENCES (obviously) on the extent that the Trump campaign was involved in working WITH the Russians during the campaign.....and after his election but before he took office.  You think it was all "smoke and mirrors".....and I think it will prove to be the LARGEST POLITICAL STORY IN US ELECTION HISTORY EVER.  BY A WIDE MARGIN....

Although....I will note that you have gone from "smoke and mirrors".....to "15% of the time" should be spent on RussiaGate....so maybe you will get there over time. ;)

And it DOESN'T mean that we stop "working on other stuff" like helping the EPA, working on global warming, keeping us out of wars.....and everything else that goes on.

But Trump needs to be stopped ASAP.  And I believe RussiaGate will prove to the most significant weapon.....IN CONJUCTION WITH OTHER ISSUES that will get Trump removed from office (including....just the "day to day" crap of "being Trump").




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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2324 on: May 01, 2017, 11:01:42 PM »
Quote
This is actually a really good analogy. Almost each of Armstrong's competitors was using doping as well.  ;)

Except that Clinton was NOT working with a foreign power to get elected.  Small difference.... ;)
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2325 on: May 01, 2017, 11:22:34 PM »
Buddy


If you can't recall a worse president, I envy you your youth.


The former residents of Nagasaki might demure, arguing that a certain Democrat was worse.
Those crazed Branch Davidians, who may, or may not have been diddling their now crispy children, might find Trump relatively benign.
Vietnamese and Laotians and Cambodians all could offer differing opinions.
Even the million Germans who starved after WWII would come up with a different president.
Qaddafi, had he survived, might even resent Hillary's comments.
The Serbian girl I'll be seeing tonight who lost her apolitical family when her village was bombed is still somewhat resentful.
It's hard not to find a place for both the Bush presidents, they were truly evil.


I'm sure I could go on.


Your naivety, while humorous, is not endearing.
You are however a good representative of a certain type who condemn Putin without any knowledge beyond that provided by the propagandists.


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2326 on: May 01, 2017, 11:39:40 PM »
Quote
This is actually a really good analogy. Almost each of Armstrong's competitors was using doping as well.  ;)

Except that Clinton was NOT working with a foreign power to get elected.  Small difference.... ;)

What frustrates me most about you, Buddy...  ;D

...is that you keep thinking in these nationalistic terms.

As if oligarchs think that way. They don't care about borders, or about their country and people, except perhaps as a base for their power, as their Monopoly seat.

It also implies that if all those things that have allegedly been done by the Russian government (which is simply an extension of that particular subgroup of global oligarchs), were done by some American group (sponsored by another subgroup of oligarchs), it would have been less bad. Our oligarchs are good, we'd rather be their slaves than be ruled by some oligarchs from the former USSR.

And no, Clinton also received doping from overseas. From Saudi Arabia, for instance, or Russia itself (some uranium deal). They all do. Just look at Obama stuffing his pockets for the next 30 years, without any hint of shame or embarrassment. That's the problem, and Trump is just a symptom.

Trump has upset some of the oligarch subgroups by upsetting the status quo through his own band of merry oligarchs (the main one being that Mercer guy). That's what makes this whole thing interesting. Both the Republican and Democratic Parties are in disarray because of this coup d'état. If Trump isn't replaced the right way (democratically, if possible), the USA will end up with a creep like Ted Cruz or some other sociopath the GOP can unite behind.
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magnamentis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2327 on: May 02, 2017, 12:15:59 AM »
@neven

you really get the hang  of things to a very high degree, it's a pleasure and very educating and/or affirmative to read your various posts, especially in this thread were provoking statements are made quite frequently even though i can feel that peoples pain. once more proper coms are key, sheer anger is blinding and not useful when it comes to solution oriented poindering / thinking.

in short +1 globally :-) ;)

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2328 on: May 02, 2017, 12:25:16 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "The Daily 202: Eight ways Trump got rolled in his first budget negotiation".  Donald may end-up making the establishment Democrats look like geniuses (at least in comparison).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/05/01/daily-202-eight-ways-trump-got-rolled-in-his-first-budget-negotiation/590687f2e9b69b3a72331f09/?utm_term=.88472700748e

Extract: "Perhaps the best negotiators are not the people who tell everyone that they are the best negotiators.

But Democrats are surprised by just how many concessions they extracted in the trillion-dollar deal, considering that Republicans have unified control of government."
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2329 on: May 02, 2017, 01:01:49 AM »
Holy shit. He went too far this time. Now he's pissed off the big money.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/331386-trump-mulling-breakup-of-wall-st-banks

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2330 on: May 02, 2017, 03:09:58 AM »
The linked article is entitled: “Democrats confident they can block Trump’s agenda after spending-bill win ”, provide logic that the establishment Democrats will have the upper hand on budget matter, perhaps throughout the Trump administration:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/after-their-spending-bill-win-democrats-confident-they-can-block-trumps-agenda/2017/05/01/5be2915e-2e97-11e7-9534-00e4656c22aa_story.html?utm_term=.b2fc1709ec24

Extract: “Democrats believe they have set the stage to block President Trump’s legislative priorities for years to come by winning major concessions in a spending bill to keep the government open.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) secured nearly $5 billion in new domestic spending by exploiting disagreements between President Trump and GOP lawmakers over spending priorities.

Democrats’ lopsided victory on the five-month deal, which is likely to be approved this week, means it will be very difficult — if not impossible — for the GOP to exert its will in future budget negotiations, including when it comes to Trump’s 2018 budget blueprint.

That’s because Republicans are hopelessly divided over how much to spend on government programs, with a small but vocal minority unwilling to support such measures at all. That has forced Republicans to work with Democrats to avoid politically damaging government shutdowns.

And that means Democrats are in the driver’s seat when it comes to budget battles, even with Trump in the White House.”
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2331 on: May 02, 2017, 05:46:05 AM »
In commenting on the success of his rally in Harrisburg, PA Saturday evening, he said that the attendance was an all time record for the arena. In the linked article, there are tweets showing quite a few empty seats.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/empty-seats-trump-rally_us_59054cdde4b0bb2d086f0dc7

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2332 on: May 02, 2017, 05:48:02 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "The Trump Empire Expands As Conflicts Of Interest Pile Up".  Hopefully, such articles will encourage more resistance to Trump's agenda:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-trump-empire-expands-as-conflicts-of-interest-pile-up_us_5908934fe4b0bb2d0871ce2e

Extract: "The White House is likely to become just another moneymaking vehicle for the Trump line.

President Trump, his children, and their spouses aren’t just using the Oval Office to augment their political legacy or secure future riches. Okay, they certainly are doing that, but that’s not the most useful way to think about what’s happening at the moment. Everything will make more sense if you reimagine the White House as simply the newest branch of the Trump family business empire, its latest outpost.

It turns out that the voters who cast their ballots for Donald Trump, the patriarch, got a package deal for his whole clan.

Despite an already mind-boggling set of existing conflicts of interest, ranging from business affiliations with oligarchs connected to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard to the Secret Service and the Pentagon leasing space in Trump Tower (for at least $3 million per year), the Trump family business is now looking to the glorious, long haul. The family is already scouting for a second hotel in Washington. Trump has reportedly used nearly $500,000 from early campaign money raised for his own 2020 presidential bid to bolster the biz. It’s evidently been poured into “Trump-owned restaurants, hotels and golf clubs,” as well as rent at Trump Tower in New York City.

In our era, it’s no secret that presidents leave office with the promise of quickly growing exponentially wealthier. But for the first family to gain such wealth while still in the White House would be a first.  Yet the process that could make that possible already seems to be well underway. All this, as Donald Trump, his children, and his son-in-law continue to carve out an unprecedented role for themselves as America’s business-managers-in-chief, presiding not so much over the country as over their own expanding imperial domains."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2333 on: May 02, 2017, 09:10:05 PM »
Greenwald lays out the case that Trump's foreign policy follows a grand tradition of both Democrats and Republicans:

https://theintercept.com/2017/05/02/trumps-support-and-praise-of-despots-is-central-to-the-u-s-tradition-not-a-deviation-from-it/

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2334 on: May 02, 2017, 09:38:31 PM »
Hopefully, such articles will encourage more resistance to Trump's agenda:

Definitely, but all these anti-Trump arguments, and there are many, should be part of a resistance against oligarchic rule in general.

By focussing on Trump and not broadening the perspective onto the systemic problem, you're offering a choice between different subgroups of oligarchs (which dynamically overlap, of course). In other words a Polyarchy (I believe you are the one who taught me that word, ASLR).

Quote
According to William I. Robinson, it is a system where small group actually rules on behalf of capital, and majority’s decision making is confined to choosing among selective number of elites within tightly controlled elective process. It is a form of consensual domination made possible by the structural domination of the global capital which allowed concentration of political powers.

That's why I react so vehemently to the stuff that focusses exclusively on Trump, and especially if it's about his (horrible) personality. It detracts from the true battle we're all engaged in and which must result in a limit on wealth.

And not just because the moral implications don't appeal to me, but especially because of the problems it causes in the material world (AGW, resource wars, top soil erosion, financial bubbles, and so on).

That's why this forum and the ASIB exist.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2335 on: May 02, 2017, 11:37:13 PM »
If we damn Trump for his family connections, how do we deal with Hunter Biden? How does Chris Heinz, Kerry's son in law, fit into the narrative?
Possibly on another thread JimP mentioned the sense of being betrayed by a significant other. This is what the Corporate Democratic Party did to me after a lifetime of faithful support on my part. NO MORE.


When the greed is so pervasive that it requires the son of the Vice President AND the son in law of our Secretary of State to cut the line at the trough while fighting still rages on, then the party really is over. This wasn't something that someone assumed could be hidden. This was overt, in your face, we are going to steal your money and you can't do anything about it.


Well it turns out that we could do something about it, and I for one am going to continue to work to remove these kleptocratic superstars as far from the reigns of power as I can. It turned out that giving Hillary tens of millions of Ukrainian & WTO money won't by much influence in Trump's administration. It turned out that fracking hasn't revealed millions of barrels & billions of dollars hidden beneath Ukraine's black, once productive soil.


All they have to show for their efforts are the 21? tons of gold that they stole the first night of the conflict. Hardly worth all the lives and destruction. Hardly worth having their monstrous intentions brought to light.
Libya's gold heist was far more profitable, although the costs are still mounting. We Came, We Saw, He died - - - Ha, Ha, Ha 
The bayonet up his ass was collateral damage, but the damage to Corporate Democrats will prove fatal - - - Ha, Ha, Ha.


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2336 on: May 03, 2017, 01:55:05 AM »
A sedate and historical long-read.

How Trump Could Get Fired

The Constitution offers two main paths for removing a President from office. How feasible are they?
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/08/how-trump-could-get-fired

It took me a while to read, but I did. Thanks, Sig.

I found it all very interesting and I liked the final paragraphs:

Quote
Wollmuth had almost always voted for Democrats, but she had come to believe that her family—she has seven grandchildren and stepgrandchildren—faced a dark future. When Trump entered the race, Wollmuth was turned off by his antics. “He’s gotta learn to keep his mouth shut,” she said, but his pledge to reënergize American manufacturing was too specific and attractive to ignore. She took a chance on Trump, as did many of her neighbors. After going for Obama by large margins in the previous two elections, Kenosha County sided with Trump, by just two hundred and fifty-five votes out of more than seventy-one thousand cast.

That is a fragile buffer. In late April, Trump promoted the results of a Washington Post/ABC News poll showing that only two per cent of those who voted for him regretted doing so. When I asked Wollmuth if she had any regrets, she made it clear that it was the wrong question. “I don’t want to be disappointed, and I hope he’s really trying,” she said. “I’d like to believe that. I’d like to see it happen. I’ve got mixed emotions with him so far.”
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2337 on: May 04, 2017, 03:50:46 PM »
Medical Marijuana gets congressional nod as Sessions given $0.00 to pursue violators.


http://theantimedia.org/congress-0-sessions-medical-marijuana/


While this shows the Democrats to be well versed in the art of the deal, it may also protect Trump from the wrath of many stoned Bubba votes.


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2338 on: May 04, 2017, 04:53:47 PM »
Regarding "TrumpCare".....a couple things to note:

The CBO (Congressional Budget Office) hasn't "scored" the new piece of proposed legislation yet.  I think it usually takes at least a couple weeks for them to "score it" depending on the complexity of the legislation.  They will also "score" the number of people left WITHOUT healthcare.

The INITIAL TrumpCare bill in the House that did NOT get through the house.....had an approval rating of only 17% by the polls....and that LOW approval was...at least in part....because of the LOW SCORES given by the non-partisan CBO.  So in a couple of weeks....whenever the CBO scores come out.....if the scores are GOOD, then TrumpCare should be able to pass the Senate without WHOLESALE changes.

But if the CBO scores ARE BAD (some people expect them to be WORSE than the initial legislation).....then it will NEVER get through the Senate....and there would have to be WHOLESALE CHANGES.

Plus....if the CBO scores are bad.....then those Congressmen from the HOUSE.....are now out on a limb....butt naked.  The outcome of the CBO scores COULD affect the current House special election in the 6th District in Georgia.  That 6th district race is CLOSE....and has been in the hands of the Republicans for a LONG TIME.  Something to watch.....

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2339 on: May 04, 2017, 07:01:20 PM »
We'll see how voters like the new section they stuck in THIS BILL.  I have a feeling that voters are not going to receive this well:

http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/05/04/wsj-just-discovered-terrifying-hidden-provision-new-trumpcare-bill/

The new bill can shift more of the economic burden to employees by allowing EMPLOYERS to "cap" the amount of cost that the employer will be subject to.....AND SHIFTING THAT BURDEN TO THE EMPLOYEE.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2340 on: May 04, 2017, 09:38:35 PM »
I'm now officially done with The Jimmy Dore Show. This one was the last drop in my bucket:
"Obama Gives Finger To Country—Takes $400K From Wall Street"

Rush Limbaugh would've been less waste of time, being somewhat entertaining at least. And methinks Rush wasn't much more effective than Jimmy in doing propaganda for Republicans.

Dore is a prime example of the political suicidality of the U.S. left. I have watched this since last year - much personally, having hosted and debated an elder ur-hippie ex Black Panther friend for a month (which was great fun, as he brought some world-class hemp stuff to smoke from California). Enough now.

----------

* $400k would make any serious European soccer player giggle.
* Trump took $1000k-$1500k for speeches (2005-7).
* Reagan $1000k (then).
(Source: http://publicspeaking.co.ke/post/10-highest-paid-public-speakers-in-the-world (2012) won't look up more)

Context of such speeches: https://www.ft.com/content/35802190-2c06-11e7-bc4b-5528796fe35c

Here's what Obama plans to do with the money: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obamas-to-visit-chicago-to-discuss-planned-library-museum/2017/05/03/d37cb970-2fbd-11e7-a335-fa0ae1940305_story.html

----------

Another thing from the linked show: Jimmy Dore spreads Republican bullshit about Obamacare "robbing Medicare". See e.g. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/07/mike-huckabee/obamacare-robbed-medicare-700-billion-says-huckabe/

P.S.: Well, heck, why you 'merricans got only Romneycare? To get anything done at all, Obama had to copy Romney's half baked plan because you hated Hillary. Now don't complain, Jimmy.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 10:03:15 PM by Martin Gisser »

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2341 on: May 04, 2017, 09:38:57 PM »
The Trumpcare bill will apparently leave it up to individual states to cover pre-existing conditions.


If we assume that Cali. covers, & that Az. does not, won't we see a rush to Cali. by everyone who has a family member that's been ill?
Will this suppress wages in Cali. because of the increase in workers, or will the economy of Az. falter as the population drops?
Will the population of Az. drop, or will healthy Californian singles swarm across the border?
Will Cali. healthcare expenses spiral out of control as the less healthy move into the state?
Will spiraling health insurance costs force Cali. to drop pre-existing coverage?
Will the legislation have little effect?


So many questions.
Interesting that single payer isn't even on the table. A choice between bad and worse.


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2342 on: May 04, 2017, 09:47:25 PM »
I'm now officially done with The Jimmy Dore Show. This one was the last drop in my bucket:
"Obama Gives Finger To Country—Takes $400K From Wall Street"

Rush Limbaugh would be less waste of time, being somewhat entertaining at least. And methinks Rush wasn't much more effective in doing propaganda for Republican voters.

* $400k would make any serious European soccer player laugh.
* Trump took $1000k-$1500k for speeches (2005-7).
* Reagan $1000k (then).
(Source: http://publicspeaking.co.ke/post/10-highest-paid-public-speakers-in-the-world (2012) won't look up more)

Context of such speeches: https://www.ft.com/content/35802190-2c06-11e7-bc4b-5528796fe35c

Here's what Obama plans to do with the money: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obamas-to-visit-chicago-to-discuss-planned-library-museum/2017/05/03/d37cb970-2fbd-11e7-a335-fa0ae1940305_story.html

Thanks for confirming that Obama isn't that much different from Rush Limbaugh, Trump and Reagan, Martin. I hope you also enjoyed the pictures with Branson and Obama's Hollywood buddies.

Maybe he can do his next speech at Exxon, Lockheed or Pfizer for 500K.

But we should be discussing this in the Corporate Democrats thread.
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2343 on: May 04, 2017, 10:15:28 PM »
Neven, look at the numbers. Obama is less than half of Reagan, and less than a third of Trump :)

Terry, let them move to Estonia (a small Baltic country). :)

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2344 on: May 04, 2017, 11:27:07 PM »
Neven, look at the numbers. Obama is less than half of Reagan, and less than a third of Trump :)

Terry, let them move to Estonia (a small Baltic country). :)


Estonia won't even give passports to Russian speakers that have lived in the country for generations, not my cup of tea. Reminds me of the Southern States in the 60's, (just watched "Black Like Me").


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2345 on: May 05, 2017, 05:36:50 AM »
In the two linked articles, Trump goes from praising the House for passing Trumpcare while he also praises Australia's universal healthcare system!?

http://www.bbc.com/news

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-praises-australia%E2%80%99s-universal-health-care-system-%E2%80%98you-have-better-health-care-than-we-do%E2%80%99/ar-BBAL10O?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2346 on: May 05, 2017, 07:13:03 AM »
In the two linked articles, Trump goes from praising the House for passing Trumpcare while he also praises Australia's universal healthcare system!?

http://www.bbc.com/news

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-praises-australia%E2%80%99s-universal-health-care-system-%E2%80%98you-have-better-health-care-than-we-do%E2%80%99/ar-BBAL10O?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
Consistency may not be one of his strong suits. :)
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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2347 on: May 05, 2017, 07:19:41 AM »
Consistency may not be one of his strong suits. :)
Terry
[/quote]

Right! It's times like this I'd like to live in Canada, I'd say he's overdue for a massive coronary, the sooner the better. I have thought that assassination would not be good because it would make him a martyr, but I'm having second thoughts!

BudM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #2348 on: May 05, 2017, 05:38:43 PM »
The linked article is entitled: " US tells China it has ‘no plan yet’ to meet its 2020 climate target", and it indicates that the Trump Administration has formally stated that it has no intentions of meeting America's Paris Pact pledges.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/us-tells-china-it-has-no-plan-yet-to-meet-its-2020-climate-target

Extract: "The US has no plan yet for how to meet its 2020 climate target and has made no analysis of the impact of recent policy changes, according to an official submission to the UN.

The details emerged in a series of terse, repetitive answers to an international climate action peer-review process, known as the Multilateral Assessment. The US submission, which was published this week, says “jobs, economic growth and energy independence” are its priority.

The assessment process sees countries ask each other questions about progress towards their climate pledges. The process works on a rolling basis, with the US one of 18 nations currently undergoing review along with other major emitters Russia and Japan. Note that the UK completed its review last year."
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Thomas Barlow

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