Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Poll

Who are you going to vote for?

Clinton
31 (70.5%)
Johnson
2 (4.5%)
Stein
6 (13.6%)
Trump
1 (2.3%)
Not going to vote / going to spoil ballot
4 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 43

Voting closed: November 26, 2016, 07:11:49 AM

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 807724 times)

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7680
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1039
  • Likes Given: 504
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3200 on: December 08, 2017, 10:31:37 PM »
Is Donald Trump's mental health becoming dangerous? Medical experts weigh in.
Medicine is an equalizer, and the president may find that he cannot outrun his own condition.
Quote
”Simply put, Trump has already exceeded our usual threshold for evaluation. Just some of the signs that have raised red flags include: verbal aggressiveness, boasting about sexual assaults, inciting violence in others, an attraction to violence and powerful weapons and the taunting of hostile nations with nuclear power. Specific traits that are highly associated with violence include: impulsivity, recklessness, paranoia, a loose grip on reality and poor understanding of consequences, a lack of empathy and belligerence toward others, rage reactions and a constant need to demonstrate power. Such traits interfere with the ability to think rationally, to take in needed information or advice, to weigh consequences and to make sound, logical decisions based on reality.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/donald-trump-s-mental-health-becoming-dangerous-medical-experts-weigh-ncna827251

I don't believe it's possible to make a psychological assessment based on how someone is portrayed in the media, or worse, how he portrays himself to make use of the media. But maybe this will work if Russiagate doesn't, right?

Except that it won't, as it will only reinforce the perception that the establishment always finds ways to get rid of any outsider who threatens their power.

The problem is: Trump isn't an outsider. He's part of the big club. So, I think it's better to focus on that, or else the next Trump will be much worse.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17740
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 829
  • Likes Given: 309
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3201 on: December 09, 2017, 01:30:00 AM »
Not that this will actually happen – – I’ll believe it when I see it – – but the White House at least recognizes the increasing concern about the president’s health.

Trump will undergo a physical and release details early next year
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/president-donald-trump-physical/index.html

People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 902
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3202 on: December 09, 2017, 02:27:55 AM »
Not that this will actually happen – – I’ll believe it when I see it – – but the White House at least recognizes the increasing concern about the president’s health.

Trump will undergo a physical and release details early next year
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/president-donald-trump-physical/index.html


Don't all presidents go through this?
I remember some concerns back in JFK's time, but thought it had been standard procedure, at least since then. Someone cleared Reagan as fit for duty when he probably should have had his driver's license revoked, but the tests were performed, and reported on.
http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g40.htm


Terry

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7680
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1039
  • Likes Given: 504
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3203 on: December 09, 2017, 01:01:47 PM »
I don't believe it's possible to make a psychological assessment based on how someone is portrayed in the media, or worse, how he portrays himself to make use of the media. But maybe this will work if Russiagate doesn't, right?

I saw that Democracy Now has done a video on this (two in fact), and so I thought that I might have to take back what I said. But it actually reinforced what I thought. You can't have a bunch of liberal psychiatrists doing this kind of stuff. It's stupid and it's wrong. Besides, a lot of psychiatrists are nuts themselves.  ;)

Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 349
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3204 on: December 09, 2017, 11:04:04 PM »
I don't believe it's possible to make a psychological assessment based on how someone is portrayed in the media, or worse, how he portrays himself to make use of the media. But maybe this will work if Russiagate doesn't, right?

I saw that Democracy Now has done a video on this (two in fact), and so I thought that I might have to take back what I said. But it actually reinforced what I thought. You can't have a bunch of liberal psychiatrists doing this kind of stuff. It's stupid and it's wrong. Besides, a lot of psychiatrists are nuts themselves.  ;)



I think Dr. Bandy Lee makes a reasonable case here.  She's not formulating a specific diagnosis based on just public appearances, she's raising a mental health alarm based on simple facts.  Trump has clearly inflamed global tensions, and brought relations with N Korea to the brink of nuclear war.  He does appear to be dangerous and unreasoning.  Questions of his mental stability and mental health are clearly warranted.  She's not declaring him incompetent, she's stating that a mental health evaluation is in order.  It's neither stupid nor wrong.  But maybe Seoul will need to be pulverized into rubble, radioactive rubble or otherwise, before you'd agree.

Alexander555

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1213
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 43
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3205 on: December 09, 2017, 11:36:26 PM »
"He clearly inflamed global tensions", what a bullshit. The entire middle-east is burning us flags on regular basis for dozens of years. And not just the middle-east.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3206 on: December 10, 2017, 12:11:48 AM »
Donnie has DEFINITELY inflamed the feelings against the US.  Unless you want to ignore all the European and Mideast countries who came out AGAINST the new US stance on Jerusalem....AND ...the following violence.  If you want to ignore that....fine.  It happened.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7680
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1039
  • Likes Given: 504
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3207 on: December 10, 2017, 12:41:23 AM »
Donnie has DEFINITELY inflamed the feelings against the US.  Unless you want to ignore all the European and Mideast countries who came out AGAINST the new US stance on Jerusalem....AND ...the following violence.  If you want to ignore that....fine.  It happened.

How do you mean, inflamed? The whole world loved the US, but now with Donnie all this has changed? And besides, the US stance on Jerusalem was something that was coveted by the Clintons and Obama. Trump took care of it for them (but not fast enough according to Chuck Schumer). So, what's the problem?

I like most Americans that I know, but the USA is a terrorist state who kills brown people to seize their resources for US corporations.

I think Dr. Bandy Lee makes a reasonable case here.  She's not formulating a specific diagnosis based on just public appearances, she's raising a mental health alarm based on simple facts.  Trump has clearly inflamed global tensions, and brought relations with N Korea to the brink of nuclear war.  He does appear to be dangerous and unreasoning.  Questions of his mental stability and mental health are clearly warranted.  She's not declaring him incompetent, she's stating that a mental health evaluation is in order.  It's neither stupid nor wrong.  But maybe Seoul will need to be pulverized into rubble, radioactive rubble or otherwise, before you'd agree.

It's not reasonable, it's political and a-moral. It gets awfully close to the birth certificate stuff. Her demand for a mental health evaluation is based on media appearances and tweets from a showman, who manipulates the media to make sure all the attention is on him. And like I've said in other threads, it reinforces the perspective that Trump is an outsider and the establishment/swamp is doing everything it can to get rid of him. That's the opposite of what you want to do.

As for Seoul being pulverized. There's enough US-related pulverizing going on as it is, and it didn't start in January this year. That's one. And second, I don't think the military-industrial complex wants that to happen, because they will then have to find a new enemy to justify the insane Pentagon budget. And if the MIC doesn't want something to happen, it usually doesn't. Somehow I don't think that Trump is going to take on the MIC.

So, stop spreading the 24/7 frenzy and think about what you want to replace Trump with. With more establishment puppets? Do you think that will work?

Stop focusing on THEM. What do YOU stand for?
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5563
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 759
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3208 on: December 10, 2017, 12:59:49 AM »
Re: " The whole world loved the US, but now with Donnie all this has changed? "

I think reputation of the USA depends on who you ask. Chile, for example, would have a different opinion on when US reputation tanked than Canada.

But in my reading, it really crashed worldwide with the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The reelection of Bush the lesser in 2004 cemented it, and the 2008 economic debacle sealed it. In some rich western nations, Obama provided a temporary reprieve, until it became clear that no torturers or warmongers or bankers would be brought to justice under the new boss either, and the wars and the bombings would continue until everybody loved the USA again.

To quote a poet from long ago:

"Indeed, indeed, the Idols I have loved so long,
Have done my credit in men's eyes much wrong.
Drowned my Honour in a shallow Cup,
And sold my Reputation for a Song ! "

He was speaking of different idols and different cups, perhaps, but the sentiment carries.

sidd
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 05:28:35 AM by sidd »

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 349
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3209 on: December 10, 2017, 02:56:18 AM »

How do you mean, inflamed? The whole world loved the US, but now with Donnie all this has changed? And besides, the US stance on Jerusalem was something that was coveted by the Clintons and Obama. Trump took care of it for them (but not fast enough according to Chuck Schumer). So, what's the problem?


Completely, utterly wrong.  Please learn some history:
In 1995, Congress reached a compromise on the issue of Jerusalem. Trump is poised to end it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/12/06/in-1995-congress-reached-a-compromise-on-the-issue-of-jerusalem-trump-is-poised-to-end-it/?utm_term=.2273ed51acaa
Quote
In 1995, " the Congress of the United States passed a law echoing Rabin’s assertions about the city. Spurred by the desire to act before Rabin’s visit, the House and Senate passed a bill called the “Jerusalem Embassy Act,” which formally recognized the city as the country’s capital and called for the U.S. Embassy in Israel to be moved there from Tel Aviv by 1999. "
The bill was not signed into law by then-President  Bill Clinton. Clinton had made an early effort to craft a new peace agreement in the Middle East, forging the Oslo accords between Israel and Palestinians, signed in 1993 and September 1995. (Rabin’s support for the accords was apparently one of the things that motivated his assassin.) The Embassy Act, Clinton said in a statement, “could hinder the peace process. I will not let this happen and will use the legislation’s waiver authority to avoid damage to the peace process.”

That waiver authority was a critical escape valve for Clinton and his successors. Initially, the legislation introduced by then-Kansas senator Bob Dole (R) mandated that groundbreaking on a new embassy in Jerusalem begin in 1996. To quell concerns from Clinton allies on the Hill, Dole added a provision that allowed the president to postpone implementation of the move for six months if “such suspension is necessary to protect the national security interests of the United States.”

The bill became law after Clinton declined to sign it for a 10-day period while Congress was in session. He, George W. Bush and Barack Obama all postponed the embassy move every six months for each of the 22 years since the law was enacted.

No, Trump is a far, far cry from any predecessor.  There was no desire of any prior US President of declaring Jerusalem as Israel's capital, or they would have let it happen.  Trump is sui generis, a uniquely dangerous man.  He's capable, single-handedly, of destroying human civilization.

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17740
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 829
  • Likes Given: 309
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3210 on: December 10, 2017, 02:58:21 AM »
“According to his own aides Trump watches 4-8 hours of TV every day, regularly fails to show up for work by 9-930 even after urging from both of his Chiefs of Staff, and spends many days golfing.
     That would get most Americans fired from their jobs.”
https://twitter.com/repdonbeyer/status/939553479542091776

NYT article:    Inside Trump’s Hour-by-Hour Battle for Self-Preservation
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/us/politics/donald-trump-president.html
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 902
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3211 on: December 10, 2017, 10:56:19 AM »
“According to his own aides Trump watches 4-8 hours of TV every day, regularly fails to show up for work by 9-930 even after urging from both of his Chiefs of Staff, and spends many days golfing.
     That would get most Americans fired from their jobs.”
https://twitter.com/repdonbeyer/status/939553479542091776

NYT article:    Inside Trump’s Hour-by-Hour Battle for Self-Preservation
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/us/politics/donald-trump-president.html


IIRC Johnson ran 3 or 4 screens at a time to catch all the major channels, Ike and Obama spent inordinate amounts of time playing golf, "W" whacked weeds in Texas, and JFK and Bill found other means of relaxation.


Personally I'd jump in the company swimming pool with a full tank of air when the stress got to me. Not something I'd have accepted from an employee.


Sometimes it's good to be the boss.
Terry

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 902
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3212 on: December 10, 2017, 11:06:35 AM »
Tump is now making noises as though he wants to get involved in Libya again.


http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/peace-and-prosperity/2017/december/02/libya-trump-jumps-back-in/


Just what we need to kick off year two.
Terry

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 349
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3213 on: December 10, 2017, 11:08:26 AM »
   Obama spent inordinate amounts of time playing golf
Terry

Terry, you keep repeating right-wing memes, while denying any possibility of being snookered by right-wing propaganda.
No, Obama did not spend inordinate amounts of time playing gold.  He played golf.  But he was relentlessly attacked for it by the right-wing press.  You probably think he wrote a lot of executive orders, I imagine.  Maybe you think he spent scads of taxpayer dollars on trips.  These are all commonplace right-wing lies.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3214 on: December 10, 2017, 11:38:34 AM »
How could someone possibly state that Obama "played an inordinate amount of golf" without mentioning that the current resident of the Oval Office has played 50% more golf than Obama?

Next thing you know we will have the right wing media NOT mentioning all the vacation days and dollars spent by Trump while they railed on Obama for vacations. 😳

Trump will go down as the president who played the most golf, spent the most money on vacations, watched the most TV, and did the LEAST amount of work.  And he may do that in less than his TOTAL TWO year term ends. 😳😳😳

Of course.....Hillary probably would have played more golf.👀
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 11:46:57 AM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 31
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3215 on: December 10, 2017, 03:59:03 PM »
   Obama spent inordinate amounts of time playing golf
Terry

Terry, you keep repeating right-wing memes, while denying any possibility of being snookered by right-wing propaganda.
No, Obama did not spend inordinate amounts of time playing gold.  He played golf.  But he was relentlessly attacked for it by the right-wing press.  You probably think he wrote a lot of executive orders, I imagine.  Maybe you think he spent scads of taxpayer dollars on trips.  These are all commonplace right-wing lies.

Obama also once wore a tan suit and used Dijon mustard.

Member Terry just has an affinity for right wing conspiracy theories and the Kremlin.  Don’t let it bother you.

Pmt111500

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2189
  • Yes, I do not always bicycle
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 196
  • Likes Given: 132
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3216 on: December 10, 2017, 04:54:41 PM »
Ah, conspiracies, always nice when waiting for the impeachment of the Prez Tillerson of Trumpistan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6DfdPZxK4Y#action=share

I'm starting to believe there's a conspiracy by journos to use the word 'could' when simple 'can' is enough and correct.
https://www.wired.com/story/two-melting-glaciers-could-decide-the-fate-of-our-coastlines/
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 05:02:44 PM by Pmt111500 »
Cooling the outside by heat pump.

Alexander555

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1213
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 43
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3217 on: December 10, 2017, 05:15:27 PM »
Obama also ruined the US financial system, by doubling government debt in 8 years. Now you have a system that is completely corrupted. And of course, they don't like changes. The death of democracy.

Alexander555

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1213
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 120
  • Likes Given: 43
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3218 on: December 10, 2017, 05:34:28 PM »
Turkish president Erdogan just called Israel terrorists.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 902
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3219 on: December 10, 2017, 10:43:02 PM »
I confess to being amazed at what gets the flock all atwitter.
Whether Obama played more golf than Ike did really isn't the point, is it?


The point is that every high powered executive may to use his time in ways that others may not understand or appreciate. If you've never held a high stress position, you might not understand this, hence examples from both sides of the aisle.


I came not to crucify Obama, but rather to praise him, as well as other Presidents who may have spent a portion of their time in office engaging in activities that others thought of as less than productive.


If you're seeing Russian Agents, or Far Right Operatives, behind every shrub. Quit looking behind shrubs. It's very likely you're viewing your own warped reflection.
Terry


Jim Pettit

  • Global Moderator
  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1175
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 11
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3220 on: December 11, 2017, 02:36:12 PM »
I confess to being amazed at what gets the flock all atwitter.
Whether Obama played more golf than Ike did really isn't the point, is it?

No, it's not. The point is that the Russian-backed bright orange shitgibbon in the Oval Office spent months promising us that he wouldn't have time for golf; he spent months berating Obama for his golfing. Now he's gone and turned the 18th fairway into his Mobile White House, so it's entirely legitimate to point that out. That's not "getting the flock all atwitter"; that's "highlighting one aspect of the President's profound hypocrisy". (Though to be honest, every hour he spends on the course is an hour he's not actively destroying the nation, so, you know, there's that.)

If you're seeing Russian Agents, or Far Right Operatives, behind every shrub. Quit looking behind shrubs. It's very likely you're viewing your own warped reflection.

On the other hand, since there *are* Russian agents not behind every shrub but in the goddamned White House, Americans have a right to know about it. YMMV...

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 902
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3221 on: December 11, 2017, 09:07:02 PM »
I confess to being amazed at what gets the flock all atwitter.
Whether Obama played more golf than Ike did really isn't the point, is it?

No, it's not. The point is that the Russian-backed bright orange shitgibbon in the Oval Office spent months promising us that he wouldn't have time for golf; he spent months berating Obama for his golfing. Now he's gone and turned the 18th fairway into his Mobile White House, so it's entirely legitimate to point that out. That's not "getting the flock all atwitter"; that's "highlighting one aspect of the President's profound hypocrisy". (Though to be honest, every hour he spends on the course is an hour he's not actively destroying the nation, so, you know, there's that.)
Quote
While I'm relieved and flattered to have your endorsement as I point out the golfing proclivities of our ruling class, I still am concerned at whether Tricky Dicky's installation of an in house bowling alley deserves more ink than Carter's installation of solar hot water in the White House, or Reagan's removal of the same?

If you're seeing Russian Agents, or Far Right Operatives, behind every shrub. Quit looking behind shrubs. It's very likely you're viewing your own warped reflection.

On the other hand, since there *are* Russian agents not behind every shrub but in the goddamned White House, Americans have a right to know about it. YMMV...


Tell me Jim, do you have a list of the Russians in the "goddamned White House"?
Do you have the names on that list Jim? Are they living, unseen amongst us?
How many are in the "goddamn White House"?
What other branches of our government have they infiltrated?


Boo


Do you see the sarcasm here Jim?
Do you recognise the allusions to Tail Gunner Joe?
The Tail Gunner was not a hero Jim. The Tail Gunner was an alcoholic, paranoid ass who ruined many lives, including his own.
The Tail Gunner wasn't evil Jim, he was stupid.


Terry




AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18787
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2048
  • Likes Given: 255
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3222 on: December 12, 2017, 12:36:08 AM »
It looks like the Democrats are lining up to give the GOP a run for their money for House seats in the 2018 mid-term elections:

Title: "One chart shows Democrats are now more eager than ever to run for office"

https://www.vox.com/2017/12/11/16748716/chart-democrats-2018-midterms-elections

Extract: "It’s too early to tell if Democrats can flip the House in 2018. But hundreds of candidates are already lining up."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 902
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3223 on: December 12, 2017, 01:31:19 AM »
If Democrats can not take the house in 2018, we'd better make plans for a decade and more of having Republicans in control of everything.


We need to do more than simply flip the house. We need to make large inroads into Republican control at the state level. Somehow we need to stop Republican Gerrymandering during the 2020 census or it will be 2030 before we have another opportunity.


In ~11 months, we'll throw a lever and the future of the US will be decided. If we haven't kicked the bums out, and regained power in the majority of state legislatures, we'll have to live with the results, and as most at this site are aware, these years will be particularly important if we're to make progress WRT our climate.


Adopt a state level politician. Make his or her campaign your personal cause. If your own state is solidly blue or red, choose someone from a more competitive state.
Send money on a regular basis. Ask what other assistance would be useful. Provide that help and report back here re. your success.


As  foreigner, I can't help financially. I will report back within the week.
Terry

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7680
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 1039
  • Likes Given: 504
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3224 on: December 12, 2017, 10:46:02 AM »
The golfing stuff is excellent criticism. A thousand of these pinpricks is much better than boom-Russiagate-we-got-him.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3225 on: December 12, 2017, 12:56:02 PM »
Regarding the Alabama senate election today.....Donnie wants this seat "bigly"....and for his sake he needs all the senate seats he can get for his eventual survival.

In a bright red state like Alabama..... I think it will be a BIG upset if Moore loses.  I expect Moore to win.  If he does NOT win....that would be a HUGE hole in boat for Trump.  The only states that are more red than Alabama are likely Wyoming and Oklahoma.  It would be like the Democrats losing Massachusetts.

We're almost 11 months into Donnie's term....and he needs Alabama.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

NevB

  • New ice
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 33
  • Likes Given: 245
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3226 on: December 12, 2017, 03:13:25 PM »
If Democrats can not take the house in 2018, we'd better make plans for a decade and more of having Republicans in control of everything.

A decade or more of environmental destruction, voter suppression, complete deregulation of financial markets and the possible consequences from this, the destruction of any affordable medical care for anyone except the most wealthy, the removal of all welfare for the less fortunate, the loss of a free media, suppression of internet neutrality, the corruption of the judiciary and so much more.

Just how do we plan for this future?

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3227 on: December 12, 2017, 05:40:19 PM »
1). I wonder if Donnie is going to have Christmas dinner with Nikki Haley?  Maybe NOT. 😳

2).  RE Senator Gillibrand comments......Donnie is just "the gift that keeps on giving."

Keep tweeting Donnie.....the polls are waiting for you.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 902
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3228 on: December 12, 2017, 09:14:53 PM »
If Democrats can not take the house in 2018, we'd better make plans for a decade and more of having Republicans in control of everything.

A decade or more of environmental destruction, voter suppression, complete deregulation of financial markets and the possible consequences from this, the destruction of any affordable medical care for anyone except the most wealthy, the removal of all welfare for the less fortunate, the loss of a free media, suppression of internet neutrality, the corruption of the judiciary and so much more.

Just how do we plan for this future?


We plan for, and assure this future, by ignoring the state level elections that will be held next November.


I've received assurances that we're capable of multitasking, and that just because we write multiple posts daily devoted to Russiagate, doesn't mean that we're ignoring the very real problem of electing governors and assemblymen in our own, or a neighboring state.


I suppose we won't know if this was true until after the 2018 elections, but it would be mollifying to read some breathless prose telling us all of the campaign strategies being taken in purple states , the difficulties of setting up a campaign office this early in the cycle, or even the reasoning one used when dividing his donations between local and statewide candidates.


Those of us outside the country have fewer options because of the attention to foreign "interference" that Russiagate has placed in the spotlight. I'm going to find a state senate candidate, hopefully in Southern Nevada, who has a reasonable chance to "flip" the district.
I can't send cash, but there are two local newspapers that print letters to the editor, and perhaps he or she will accept other assistance.


At the present I'm learning what I can about the recent, volatile state of Nevada politics. As it stands if we can hold the assembly and senate while electing a democratic governor, we'll hold all of the political cards when the critical redistricting occurs.


Ballotpedia is where I've begun my re-education.


Terry

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 31
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3229 on: December 13, 2017, 04:26:07 AM »
Jones has prevailed in the Alabama Senate race, cutting the margin to 51-49 R.  2018 is looking favorable for Dems, and this is an embarrassment for Trump.  He has no sway with voters.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3230 on: December 13, 2017, 04:44:07 AM »
Could it be?  Did pigs fly? 🐷 Did the "round mound of rebound" help Doug Jones to victory?  Is Donnie's boat taking on more water? ⛴

If it continues to hold up....our friend "Mo" (mentum) is definitely against Donnie. 
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3064
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 355
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3231 on: December 13, 2017, 04:48:51 AM »
bbbbut do we have to hate him if he turns out to be a 'corporate Democrate'???

 ;D :o ::) ??? 8)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 04:55:00 AM by wili »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1703
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 349
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3232 on: December 13, 2017, 04:54:43 AM »
bbbbut do we have to hate him if he's a 'corporate Democrate'???

 ;D :o ::) ??? 8)

Rachel Maddow show reported that Jones out-spent Moore on TV ads 6:1
Clearly, a lot of dollars were needed to fund this very narrow victory.
I think Democratic victories are going to require funding by wealthy donors.

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3064
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 355
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3233 on: December 13, 2017, 04:58:47 AM »
Well, the National Rep Party stopped funding more a while ago and only started back in recently, so Moore's campaign was probably a bit strapped for cash compared to Jones. But it was mostly a lot of Black folks, and a lot of all sorts of Alabaman's who wanted the state not to be represented by a swine (and he was that even before the sexual allegations cropped up). They didn't want the world, which was definitely watching, to think that their state was so backward that they would elect that kind of creep to make the laws of the land.

I feel like Alabama just entered the modern world!

I guess we have to start loving ol' 'bama a bit now.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3234 on: December 13, 2017, 05:21:54 AM »
ROLL TIDE.......
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3064
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 355
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3235 on: December 13, 2017, 05:50:19 AM »


Laissez les bon temps...

« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 06:05:40 AM by wili »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

pileus

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 31
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3236 on: December 13, 2017, 06:12:55 AM »
bbbbut do we have to hate him if he's a 'corporate Democrate'???

 ;D :o ::) ??? 8)

Rachel Maddow show reported that Jones out-spent Moore on TV ads 6:1
Clearly, a lot of dollars were needed to fund this very narrow victory.
I think Democratic victories are going to require funding by wealthy donors.

It’s the only way to defeat Republicans while Citizens United remains in effect.  Gotta play on the same field.

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 902
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3237 on: December 13, 2017, 07:07:20 AM »
Wow!
Hold your nose and vote.
But our man proved willing to wrestle in the slimy red mud of Alabama Politics, and so deserves the approbation of those of us too couldn't get near the pit without retching.


May he prove himself to be a good and obedient servant to those who purchased his services.


Terry

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3064
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 355
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3238 on: December 13, 2017, 07:40:42 AM »
"those who purchased his services"

???

You mean...like...the voters of Alabama?

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/12/16767130/jones-moore-campaign-donors


Doug Jones got more money from Alabama voters than Roy Moore did


The Democrat has raised an astonishing sum from donors in his conservative state.

Quote
....About 5,000 people in Alabama have donated to Jones, while about 1,000 have donated to Moore — suggesting that Jones leads in grassroots financial support within the state...
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

budmantis

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1220
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 6
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3239 on: December 13, 2017, 08:08:43 AM »

May he prove himself to be a good and obedient servant to those who purchased his services.


Terry

Wili's got a very good point, but to your point Terry, I'd rather have an obedient Democrat than an obedient Republican. Or would you have preferred Roy Moore be elected? The whole system reeks for sure, but for the time being we've got to work within that system.

BudM

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3240 on: December 13, 2017, 01:20:35 PM »
I wonder if the Republicans should be worried?

1). On the wrong side of global warming
2). On the wrong side of renewable energy
3). On the wrong side of LGBT
4). On the wrong side of tax bill that increases debt by 1.5 Trillion
5). On the wrong side of tax cuts for billionaires
6). On the wrong side of healthcare
7). On the wrong side of support for equal rights in the workplace for women
8). On the wrong side of Donald Trump

Hmmmmmmmm..... what is going to happen in 2018?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 02:15:43 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3241 on: December 13, 2017, 02:29:06 PM »
In Tuscaloosa county last night (home of U of Alabama) Doug Jones won by 16%.  This was a county that went for Trump by 20% last year.....a 36% swing.

In Lee County...home of Auburn University....Jones won by 17%.  That county was won by Trump last year by 23%.  That is a 40% swing. 😳 

Exit polls showed support for the tax bill at 32%.  Will be interesting to see if any Republicans get "cold feet" this week.  They are stuck between a rock and a hard place.  If they don't pass the bill...their donors may bail on them.  If they DO vote to pass the bill....the VOTERS may bail on them. 😳



FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 902
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3242 on: December 13, 2017, 02:53:41 PM »

May he prove himself to be a good and obedient servant to those who purchased his services.


Terry

Wili's got a very good point, but to your point Terry, I'd rather have an obedient Democrat than an obedient Republican. Or would you have preferred Roy Moore be elected? The whole system reeks for sure, but for the time being we've got to work within that system.

BudM
Wili would have a marvelous point if it wasn't for the fact that California and New York were the sources of most of Jones money.
I'm relieved that Moore won't be in the senate, and hope desperately that he leaves politics permanently. I just can't get excited about Jones, or, more specifically, the campaign that he ran.


Terry

Sigmetnow

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17740
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 829
  • Likes Given: 309
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3243 on: December 13, 2017, 03:03:24 PM »
Democrat Doug Jones just won a special election to fill the Senate seat in the state of Alabama vacated when Trump picked Jeff Sessions to be Attorney General.  A Democrat has not won there in a quarter-century, but the extreme-right candidate (and alleged child molester) Roy Moore was too much even for Alabama.  Every county voted more Democratic than they did in the 2016 presidential election, with very high turnout among blacks and Democrats, and women voting against Moore, making the difference.

This reduces the Republican advantage in the Senate down to a single vote, putting the entire GOP agenda at risk.  However, Jones will not be seated until January, and the GOP will certainly try to ram their tax bill through before then.

Interesting stats:  https://www.politico.com/interactives/elections/2017/alabama/special-election/dec-12/

How Doug Jones Changes (Almost) Everything in the Senate
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/12/how-doug-jones-changes-almost-everything-in-the-senate.html

5 takeaways from Alabama's startling special election
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/13/alabama-senate-jones-moore-takeaways-294163
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3064
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 514
  • Likes Given: 355
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3244 on: December 13, 2017, 03:09:46 PM »
California was also a major source for Moore's money. Your point?

Quote
I wonder if the Republicans should be worried?

1). On the wrong side of global warming
2). On the wrong side of renewable energy
3). On the wrong side of LGBT
4). On the wrong side of tax bill that increases debt by 1.5 Trillion
5). On the wrong side of tax cuts for billionaires
6). On the wrong side of healthcare
7). On the wrong side of support for equal rights in the workplace for women
8). On the wrong side of Donald Trump

9) On the wrong side of pederasty!!
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

colchonero

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 123
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 24
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3245 on: December 13, 2017, 03:19:56 PM »
Nice victory for Jones. I'm happy  Alabama voters didn't elect Moore, kind of relieved too. I mean in 2020 it's going to swing back to red anyway(s). Until then Trump is president and in 2018 Republicans need just 7 seats if I'm not mistaken, which to be fair is not a very high bar if we look at the states with senate race in 2018. This is assuming nothing astonishing happens. There is almost like a year to go, so anything can happen, nobody knows.

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18787
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2048
  • Likes Given: 255
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3246 on: December 13, 2017, 04:40:40 PM »
Nice victory for Jones. I'm happy  Alabama voters didn't elect Moore, kind of relieved too. I mean in 2020 it's going to swing back to red anyway(s). Until then Trump is president and in 2018 Republicans need just 7 seats if I'm not mistaken, which to be fair is not a very high bar if we look at the states with senate race in 2018. This is assuming nothing astonishing happens. There is almost like a year to go, so anything can happen, nobody knows.

I think the GOP should be more nervous about losing control of the US Senate, after the 2018 mid-term elections, than many people assume:

Title: "Republicans Shouldn't Assume Roy Moore Was an Outlier"

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/republicans-shouldnt-assume-roy-moore-was-an-outlier/

Extract: "Alabama is more evidence that the GOP needs to be worried about 2018"

&

The linked articles give the Democrats a 50-50 chance of winning the Senate with a Doug Jones win in Alabama:

Title: "Do Democrats Need To Win In Alabama To Take The Senate In 2018?"

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-democrats-need-to-win-in-alabama-to-take-the-senate-in-2018/?src=obsidebar=sb_1

Extract: "He says he would buy Democrats to win the Senate at 30 percent. And that it would be 50-50 if Democrat Doug Jones wins in Alabama."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18787
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2048
  • Likes Given: 255
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3247 on: December 13, 2017, 06:43:30 PM »
Obama spoke: "No Moore", and it was so:

Title: "African American Voters Made Doug Jones a U.S. Senator in Alabama"

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/despite-the-obstacles-black-voters-make-a-statement-in-alabama/548237/

Extract: "The state’s “black belt” made big turnout gains in support of the Democratic candidate, providing his margin of victory in the Senate special election in a deep-red state."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 18787
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2048
  • Likes Given: 255
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3248 on: December 13, 2017, 07:02:06 PM »
Ted Cruz faces Senate reelection in Texas in 2018, and with Moore's loss in Alabama, Ted should be very much afraid, because the Democrats (with Obama's help) will come gunning for this Trump sycophant, come next November.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3379
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 34
Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #3249 on: December 13, 2017, 07:37:59 PM »
The primary elections in Texas are coming up on March 6th.... Texas politics is getting interesting.  A few of my "Texas' Terrible Ten" have already dropped out of 2018 cycle (Smokey Joe Barton and a few others).

Would LOVE to see Cruz lose next year.....  Possible.  Next few months will be interesting to see if Republicans start to put some distance between themselves and Trump.  And how much momentum can the Texas Dems generate in their state?
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."