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Who are you going to vote for?

Clinton
31 (70.5%)
Johnson
2 (4.5%)
Stein
6 (13.6%)
Trump
1 (2.3%)
Not going to vote / going to spoil ballot
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Total Members Voted: 43

Voting closed: November 26, 2016, 07:11:49 AM

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 647821 times)

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4800 on: August 22, 2018, 07:32:33 PM »
With EU's blocking statute coming on line it's beginning to appear as though the US may have tariffed herself into a corner.
China, the EU, Russia, Canada, Mexico, Iran - it may be easier to list the countries with which America has maintained normal trade relations.
I suppose you could claim that by locking yourself in a padded cell you've punished the rest of the world, but the rest of the world may simply be be relieved by your absence.
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4801 on: August 22, 2018, 07:40:29 PM »
With EU's blocking statute coming on line it's beginning to appear as though the US may have tariffed herself into a corner.
China, the EU, Russia, Canada, Mexico, Iran - it may be easier to list the countries with which America has maintained normal trade relations.
I suppose you could claim that by locking yourself in a padded cell you've punished the rest of the world, but the rest of the world may simply be be relieved by your absence.
Terry

Trump's actions make much more sense if he is planning on starting a major war with Iran sooner rather than later.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4802 on: August 22, 2018, 09:20:22 PM »

Trump's actions make much more sense if he is planning on starting a major war with Iran sooner rather than later.


Should we then expect another bump in his approval ratings as the MSM's talking heads agree that he is finally "acting presidential"?
The only times I've seen Democrats praise this president was in the aftermath of him bombing someone.


580 days with no major conflicts - what's he trying to do, win a Pulitzer Peace Prize?
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4803 on: August 22, 2018, 10:44:46 PM »
580 days with no major conflicts - what's he trying to do, win a Pulitzer Peace Prize?
Terry

I thnink that neither Afghanistan nor Syria would second your nomination:

Title: "United States Drops ‘Mother of All Bombs’ On ISIS in Afghanistan"

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/04/13/united-states-drops-mother-of-all-bombs-on-isis-in-afghanistan/

Extract: "To blow up an Islamic State tunnel complex in eastern Afghanistan, the United States has dropped one of its most powerful non-nuclear bombs — the Massive Ordnance Air Blast bomb, or MOAB, a 21,000-pound munition packing an explosive punch larger than almost anything else in the U.S. conventional arsenal."

&

Title: "A-10 Warthog Drops 2K Pound Bunker-Buster on ISIS Sniper Nest in Raqqa"

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/08/31/a10-warthog-drops-2k-pound-bunker-buster-isis-sniper-nest-raqqa.html

Extract: "Proving it's not too old for new tricks, an aging A-10 attack plane dropped a bunker-busting bomb for the first time in combat earlier in August against an Islamic State target in Syria, defense officials said."
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 12:05:11 AM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4804 on: August 23, 2018, 12:06:17 AM »
Birds of a feather …

Title: "To Russia With Love: Why Southern U.S. Extremists Are Mad About Vladimir Putin"

https://www.thedailybeast.com/to-russia-with-love-why-southern-us-extremists-are-mad-about-vladimir-putin?source=twitter&via=desktop

Extract: "The League of the South, America’s leading neo-secessionist group, is a white supremacist organization that describes the Deep South as “White Man’s Land.” It speaks often of a coming race war, which its leader warns black people will surely lose. It hates Jews. It believes the antebellum South was a rare remnant of true Christianity in a godless world. It denounces egalitarianism as a “fatal heresy.” It openly embraces the Ku Klux Klan and other extremists.

And it really, really likes Russia."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4805 on: August 23, 2018, 12:27:46 AM »
Now that Michael Cohen is turning states evidence, it kind of make you wonder just how much dirt he will spill on Donald Trump's good friend Sean Hannity:

Title: "Sean Hannity responds to 'ironic' report that detailed his $90 million property empire"

https://www.businessinsider.com/sean-hannity-real-estate-holdings-shell-companies-2018-4

Extract: "Fox News host Sean Hannity responded Monday to a Guardian report on his real-estate investments, which the publication researched after the cable-news star was named as President Donald Trump's longtime lawyer Michael Cohen's mysterious third client from the past year."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4806 on: August 23, 2018, 12:31:02 AM »
Will any of these lawyers ever be able to find another client?
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4807 on: August 23, 2018, 02:46:24 AM »
Will any of these lawyers ever be able to find another client?
Terry


Don't worry your little grey head. Cohen's GoFundMe campaign raised about $50,000 USD in the first 13 hours:

Title: "Pranksters are donating to Michael Cohen’s GoFundMe account under Trump pals’ names"

https://qz.com/1366837/michael-cohen-gofundme-has-raised-500000/

Extract: "To help this white-collar criminal out, his attorney Lanny Davis has started a GoFundMe campaign, the Michael Cohen Truth Fund, hoping to “help Michael Cohen and his family as he goes forward on his journey to tell the truth about Donald Trump.”

The crowdfunding effort is aiming for $500,000, with the promise that it “is a transparent trust account.” Yes: The campaign is asking people to donate to help a man who has just pleaded guilty of eight counts of fraud and campaign-finance violations.

Apparently, trust is in the air: More than 1,300 people have given anywhere from $5 to $1,000, a total of nearly $50,000 within the first 13 hours."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

SteveMDFP

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4808 on: August 23, 2018, 02:57:44 AM »

Title: "Pranksters are donating to Michael Cohen’s GoFundMe account under Trump pals’ names"

https://qz.com/1366837/michael-cohen-gofundme-has-raised-500000/

For our readers, the funny part came at the end:
"Scrolling through the donor lists, there are donations attributed to or on behalf of Melania Trump, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Rudy G., Stormy Daniels, and Vladimir Putin."

These are certainly Stormy times.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4809 on: August 23, 2018, 09:50:29 PM »
Donnie told FOX that if he were impeached, the market would tank.  I HATE to be the bearer of bad news for Donnie ...... but I’m afraid he has that reversed:  AFTER the market tanks, he will be much more prone to impeachment.  And Mr. Market looks ready to go and get this party started.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4810 on: August 24, 2018, 03:41:26 AM »
As Donnie & Company spiral further and further out of control .... Donnie looks like he is going to have to act before even more bad information comes out.  Paul Manaforts second trial is coming up in September, and that second trial will deal with the period of time when Paul Manafort was serving as Trump’s campaign manager.

I think there is a SIGNIFICANT chance that Manafort is pardoned BEFORE Manaforts upcoming second trial.  Call it a 60/40 split ... 60% chance that Trump pardons him BEFORE the second trial.  Why?  Because I don’t think that Donnie can absorb the “body blows” from the second trial ... and I  think it is likely that Donnie knows that.  If the trial goes ahead as planned ... it will significantly impact Donnie’s weakening public polls.  If he pardons Manafort before the second trial ... he would likely do it fairly soon because he wouldn’t want to do it right before the elections .... he would want some time to pass after the pardon and before the election.

Just a thought ..... things are NOT looking good for my small handed friend.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

budmantis

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4811 on: August 24, 2018, 08:16:30 AM »
Donnie told FOX that if he were impeached, the market would tank.  I HATE to be the bearer of bad news for Donnie ...... but I’m afraid he has that reversed:  AFTER the market tanks, he will be much more prone to impeachment.  And Mr. Market looks ready to go and get this party started.


This has been the longest running bull market and a correction is overdue. I would love to see the day when his rallies fail to fill half the seats available. That could be very soon.

mostly_lurking

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4812 on: August 24, 2018, 08:29:38 AM »
Donnie told FOX that if he were impeached, the market would tank.  I HATE to be the bearer of bad news for Donnie ...... but I’m afraid he has that reversed:  AFTER the market tanks, he will be much more prone to impeachment.  And Mr. Market looks ready to go and get this party started.


This has been the longest running bull market and a correction is overdue. I would love to see the day when his rallies fail to fill half the seats available. That could be very soon.

The economy (world) is eventually going to go boom no matter what he does and not at his fault- it's been coming for quite a while. I imagine he knows this and will do everything he can to kick it down the road till after Nov 2020-

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4813 on: August 24, 2018, 01:31:48 PM »
It’s been an interesting process so far, hasn’t it?  Donnie is continuing to get peeled ..... and there is STILL 10 or 11 weeks until the elections.

New York State sent a CLEAR message to Trump yesterday when they announced that they are going after the Trump Organization AND Michael Cohen.  If you are Trump or Manafort ...... you now know that the federal pardon will be of no good to Trump or Manafort.  And if Florida elects a Democrate as Governor and Attorney General ...... Donnie is REALLY SUNK. 

Some of the more interesting actors for me to watch in the final acts of this “play” are Senator Lindsay Graham, Senator Rand Paul, Paul Ryan, Senator McConnel, and Senator Grassley.  There are others to watch ...... but these are the “big fish” in Congress to watch.

As an “observer” I watch what people have done and said in the past, to what they are saying and doing NOW.  In other words ...... “does it make sense” ..... either politically, morally, or personally.  Why are those 4 doing and saying the things they are doing and saying now?

From what has transpired over the past 20 months ...... I have already stated LONG AGO that I believe Paul Ryan has a 60% or greater liklihood if being charged in RussiaGate because of the things he knew during the election, but did not contact anyone like the FBI.  He is also obstructing justice by his act of allowing Devon Nunes to continue to obstruct Justice in his leadership of the House Intellihence Committee.

The same may go for McConnel as for Ryan.

Rand Paul and Lindsay Graham bring up different issues.  But there is “something” that is causing Rand Paul and Lindsay Graham to shift more strongly towards Trump.  I will be watching closely as those two seem very willing to allow Trump a LOT more latitude to do things ..... and specifically to get rid of Jeff Sessions.   Why the rapid change?  I have a feeling we’re going to find out in coming weeks/months.




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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4814 on: August 24, 2018, 08:20:30 PM »
I wanted to stop watching for this summer - but the Trump presidency is now getting seriously entertaining.






AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4815 on: August 24, 2018, 11:20:40 PM »
Will Trump be able to start a major war (say with Iran) before the stock market bubble (that is keeping him afloat) pops?  Trump's true power base comes from GOP moneymen, and they will drop Trump like a hot potato as the stock market approaches its peak:

Title: "How This Will End"

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/the-end-of-trumps-reign/568480/

Extract: "Sooner or later, tyrants are always abandoned by their followers."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4816 on: August 25, 2018, 12:02:04 AM »
Will Trump be able to start a major war (say with Iran) before the stock market bubble (that is keeping him afloat) pops?  Trump's true power base comes from GOP moneymen, and they will drop Trump like a hot potato as the stock market approaches its peak:

Title: "How This Will End"

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/08/the-end-of-trumps-reign/568480/

Extract: "Sooner or later, tyrants are always abandoned by their followers."


Should we keep pushing his buttons until he pushes his button, or will the lives of a half a million Iranian toddlers be seen as having more value than the dead Iraqi tots who's lives Madame Albright dismissed so cavalierly?



Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4817 on: August 25, 2018, 12:45:59 AM »

Should we keep pushing his buttons until he pushes his button, or will the lives of a half a million Iranian toddlers be seen as having more value than the dead Iraqi tots who's lives Madame Albright dismissed so cavalierly?

Terry

Silence is complicity.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

pearscot

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4818 on: August 25, 2018, 01:05:30 AM »
I have trouble thinking trump is going to start a war with Iran, and there's nothing more I hope for than peace. It is exceptionally troubling and frustrating to see the broader implications of trump pulling out of the Iran deal. That said, given any two options, he will always choose the worst one. Heretofore, the only thing he is really "winning" (winning being defined as enough to keep the average, uninformed voter blinded by the bread and circuses that are the U.S' media and walmart) is the economy. Starting a war with Iran appears out of his reach and the only individual with the slightest bit of intelligence in that evil administration is Mattis - who will tell Rotund Bone-Spurs that said actions are simply not viable. Additionally, the sad reinstatement of tariffs in Iran will most likely be the furthest such actions extend as prior attempts to denuclearize North Korea appear to be failing (as expected) due to the State Department being absolutely decimated and weakened under Tillerson and trump losing out to North Korea's long game of obtaining propaganda of Kim dining/meeting with a sitting U.S. president.

As this dystopia unfolds, I do foresee the great beast suffering a proverbial death by a thousand cuts. With the recent news about Cohen, The National Enquirer, confrontation with Jeff 'the racist elf' Sessions, and further state charges being leveled against Manafort, I think that internal issues in conjunction with the midterms coming up will delay any aggressive military actions.

pls!

litesong

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4819 on: August 25, 2018, 01:43:10 AM »
There is NO bigger problem than Trump right now.
Of your listed "don'T rump" considerations, you may have missed the greatest of his darknesses. Craig Unger's "House of Trump, House of Putin" shows "don'T rump" has been owned by the russian mafia & vladimer putin for 4 decades, who may have bailed "don'T rump" out of his early bankruptcy....& "don'T rump" has been laundering russian illegal stealings ever since.
With close intimates of "don'T rump" flipping, all the bile of "don'T rump" is pouring out onto all re-pubic-lick-un supporters.   

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4820 on: August 25, 2018, 02:12:01 AM »

Silence is complicity.
Complicity for Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Sudan, Syria and now Yemen are enough for one generation. Complicity in Vietnam, Indonesia, Laos and Cambodia almost destroyed their parents.


We don't need to kill brown babies for domestic political wins. - That's so 1960's.
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4821 on: August 25, 2018, 02:31:11 AM »

Silence is complicity.
Complicity for Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Sudan, Syria and now Yemen are enough for one generation. Complicity in Vietnam, Indonesia, Laos and Cambodia almost destroyed their parents.


We don't need to kill brown babies for domestic political wins. - That's so 1960's.
Terry

The only way that I can see to interpret your posts is that you view Trump as a champion for the people doing battle against the corrupt Deep State that likes to kill brown babies.  If I am wrong, please clarify.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4822 on: August 25, 2018, 02:40:51 AM »
Cohen guilty plea opens a direct pathway into the finances of Trump's businesses:

Title: "Trump Insiders Could Offer ‘Holy Grail’ of Long-Hidden Finances"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-insiders-could-offer-‘holy-grail’-of-long-hidden-finances/ar-BBMoD7i?ocid=spartandhp

Extract: "Michael Cohen’s guilty plea is opening a door to a long-closed world -- the business of Donald Trump.

Many have tried, unsuccessfully, to get a look. Trump rebuffed calls during the election to release his federal tax returns. Public advocacy groups have sought those returns and failed. Even his ex-wives, and by one account his bankers, haven’t been able to get a full view of Trump’s finances.

But now that Cohen has told prosecutors that Trump directed him to pay women for their silence and was repaid by the Trump family business, U.S. and New York authorities are taking a closer look.

“Because there are tax implications to all these transactions, it even opens up Trump’s tax returns to state and federal prosecutors: The Holy Grail,” said Frank Agostino, an attorney in Hackensack, New Jersey, who formerly prosecuted U.S. tax cases."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4823 on: August 25, 2018, 04:04:12 AM »

Silence is complicity.
Complicity for Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Sudan, Syria and now Yemen are enough for one generation. Complicity in Vietnam, Indonesia, Laos and Cambodia almost destroyed their parents.


We don't need to kill brown babies for domestic political wins. - That's so 1960's.
Terry

The only way that I can see to interpret your posts is that you view Trump as a champion for the people doing battle against the corrupt Deep State that likes to kill brown babies.  If I am wrong, please clarify.
First take off you're ideological blinders.


You chortle about instigating a war between the greatest military force that the world has ever seen, and a peaceful culture that's stayed within it's borders for millennia. They have no more chance of prevailing than a middle school football team would have playing in the NFL, yet you look forward to Trump starting a war against them.
All in an effort to lower Trump's standing on the polls.


You boast of needling someone you consider to be mentally ill, when you're cognizant of the fact that he literally has the capability to initiate a thermonuclear war that will kill every man, woman and child on the planet.
I'm overwhelmed that you possess such reckless disregard for your own well being. I beg that in the future you limit yourself to taunting bears, bulls, or well armed bullies on your own time, and in a manner that doesn't imperil my future.


You advocate for these positions apparently because you feel that this will hurt Trump's numbers at the polls, perhaps it will even saddle us with President Pence - a Right Wing Radio Show Host!
The last thing I wan't is an heroic Pence, selflessly taking up the reigns of power in an effort to get this country through the trying times that will surely follow a Presidential Impeachment.


The US has been killing brown babies in efforts to prop up or bring down various domestic politicians for as long as I've been alive. I left the country, but I can't walk away from my disgust.


We came. We saw. He died. Ha Ha Ha
Some of us still remember what it was that we saw.
Terry
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 07:31:16 AM by TerryM »

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4824 on: August 25, 2018, 10:31:20 AM »
This sums it up :

This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4825 on: August 25, 2018, 02:07:05 PM »
The troubles for Donnie are just beginning.  Doormen may not be the most honest people in the world, but DNA is.  If there is anything to the latest “Donald has an illegitimate child story”, we can certainly find out easily enough if it is true.

Frankly, I would be surprised if there isn’t an illegitimate child of his running around somewhere.  Trump has probably layed more pipe than Exxon Mobile.

With everything beginning to fall apart in Donnie’s world, the next 2+ months are going to seem like an eternity.

Who is going to be the next person(s) to cooperate/flip/talk?  The rats are now jumping ship.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 02:39:39 PM by Buddy »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4826 on: August 25, 2018, 07:01:08 PM »
Brennan's point makes sense when one considers that Trump, who is most likely a psychopath, is POTUS:

Title: "Brennan accuses Trump of dividing US: 'This could spill over into the streets'"

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/403567-brennan-accuses-trump-of-dividing-us-this-could-spill-over-into-the-streets

Extract: "Former CIA Director John Brennan issued one of his most stern rebukes yet of President Trump on Friday night, arguing that the political climate in the country is likely to get worse under his tenure.

“Fundamentally, though, what he’s doing to this country, he’s dividing us … He’s dividing Americans," Brennan said of the president during an appearance on HBO’s “Real Time with Bill Maher.”

"So I’m really concerned that as he continues to play to his base, he’s further dividing us, and I’m really concerned about whether this could spill over into the streets,” he said."
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 07:24:35 PM by AbruptSLR »
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― Leon C. Megginson

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4827 on: August 25, 2018, 11:30:18 PM »
Why do you even post what a torturing, surveilling, corrupt, anti-American asshole like Brennan is saying?

Too bad Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot aren't alive today. Just imagine how easy it would be for them to redeem themselves and become a friend/hero of liberals.

JHC...
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4828 on: August 26, 2018, 01:13:24 AM »
No one is perfect:

Title: "John O. Brennan"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_O._Brennan

Extract: "… he advised Obama on foreign policy and intelligence issues during the 2008 election campaign and presidential transition …"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4829 on: August 26, 2018, 01:30:52 AM »
Trump - The quintessential ugly American:

Title: "Trump Threatens FBI Over Hillary Clinton Emails: 'I May Have To Get Involved'"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-threatens-fbi-over-hillary-clinton-emails-i-may-have-to-get-involved/ar-BBMpSt4?ocid=spartandhp

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― Leon C. Megginson

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4830 on: August 26, 2018, 02:06:11 AM »
Thanks, as always, ASLR.

I saw that, and am still wondering what exactly "to get involved" would mean in this case? Is it just meant to be a vague, wild threat of some rather mysterious kind?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 04:33:56 AM by wili »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

litesong

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4831 on: August 26, 2018, 03:52:41 AM »
.....his public record shows a long history of ties to both mob and Russian money:
Title: "The Making of Donald Trump by David Cay Johnston – who controls Trump’s feelings?"
Also the new book, "House of Trump, House of Putin" by Craig Unger records the 4 decades of russian mobster(including putin) & "don'T rump" connections. Unger says he has 79(or 59) connections.  My question, "Did russian mob money & putin pull "don'T rump" out of bankruptcy"?
Note: my rendition of Don Trump ("don'T rump") has NOT changed the letter order. Yes indeed! "don'T rump" told us, NOT to vote for him.

litesong

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4832 on: August 26, 2018, 05:34:59 AM »
"Truth isn't truth." Rudy Guilianni
What WILL they come up with next?
Up is really down?  Fast is really slow?  Good is really bad?

Orbital space mechanics show that there is no up or down if you are free-falling in orbit. Also while in orbit, if you speed up with rockets, then turn your rockets off, you will slow down. Again, while in orbit, if you slow down with retro-rockets & turn them off, you will speed up.
In other words, "don'T rump" belongs in space & we should all work to send him there. Instant bad becomes instant good.   

NevB

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4833 on: August 26, 2018, 04:42:41 PM »
From the NY Times:

Quote
The Full-Spectrum Corruption of Donald Trump
Everyone and everything he touches rots.

Peter Wehner
By Peter Wehner
Mr. Wehner served in the previous three Republican administrations and is a contributing opinion writer.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/25/opinion/sunday/corruption-donald-trump.html

Quote
Most Republicans, having thrown their MAGA hats over the Trump wall, will stay with him until the end. Was a tax cut, deregulation and court appointments really worth all this?

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4834 on: August 26, 2018, 07:07:34 PM »
No matter what one thinks of Henry Kissinger, it is constructive to consider his opinions.  In this regards, the author of the linked article summarizes, that Kissinger is concerned that Trump is: "… reinventing the rules-based order that we used to take for granted."  To this summary, Kissinger replies: “I think we are in a very, very grave period for the world, …”

Title: "Henry Kissinger: ‘We are in a very, very grave period’"

https://www.ft.com/content/926a66b0-8b49-11e8-bf9e-8771d5404543?segmentId=7ac5b61e-8d73-f906-98c6-68ac3b9ee271

Extract: "Kissinger is to geopolitical clarity what Alan Greenspan was to monetary communication — an oracle whose insight is matched only by his indecipherability. It is my mission to push him out of his comfort zone. I want to know what he really thinks of Donald Trump.

The timing is perfect. We are having lunch the day after Trump met Putin in Helsinki — a summit that America’s foreign-policy establishment believes will go down as a low point in US diplomacy. Trump had done the unthinkable by endorsing Putin’s protestations of innocence of electoral sabotage over the word of America’s intelligence agencies.

Geopolitics weighs heavily on Kissinger. As the co-architect of the cold war rapprochement with China and détente with the Soviet Union, Kissinger now surveys a world in which China and Russia are both challenging the US world order, often in concert with each other.

What did Kissinger make of the Helsinki summit? His answer is halting.

“It was a meeting that had to take place. I have advocated it for several years. It has been submerged by American domestic issues. It is certainly a missed opportunity. But I think one has to come back to something. Look at Syria and Ukraine. It’s a unique characteristic of Russia that upheaval in almost any part of the world affects it, gives it an opportunity and is also perceived by it as a threat. Those upheavals will continue. I fear they will accelerate.”

Kissinger embarks on a disquisition about Russia’s “almost mystical” tolerance for suffering. His key point is that the west wrongly assumed in the years before Putin annexed Crimea that Russia would adopt the west’s rules-based order. Nato misread Russia’s deep-seated craving for respect. “The mistake Nato has made is to think that there is a sort of historic evolution that will march across Eurasia and not to understand that somewhere on that march it will encounter something very different to a Westphalian [western idea of a state] entity. And for Russia this is a challenge to its identity.” Do you mean that we provoked Putin, I ask.

“I do not think Putin is a character like Hitler,” Kissinger replies. “He comes out of Dostoyevsky.”

“I don’t want to talk too much about Trump because at some point I should do it in a more coherent way than this,” Kissinger replies. But you are being coherent, I protest. Please don’t stop. There is another pregnant silence. “I think Trump may be one of those figures in history who appears from time to time to mark the end of an era and to force it to give up its old pretences. It doesn’t necessarily mean that he knows this, or that he is considering any great alternative. It could just be an accident.”

So could Trump be shocking the rest of the west to stand on its own feet, I ask. “It would be ironic if that emerged out of the Trump era,” Kissinger replies. “But it is not impossible.”

The alternative, Kissinger adds, is not appealing. A divided Atlantic would turn Europe into “an appendage of Eurasia”, which would be at the mercy of a China that wants to restore its historic role as the Middle Kingdom and be “the principal adviser to all humanity”. It sounds as though Kissinger believes China is on track to achieve its goal. America, meanwhile, would become a geopolitical island, flanked by two giant oceans and without a rules-based order to uphold. Such an America would have to imitate Victorian Britain but without the habit of mind to keep the rest of the world divided — as Britain did with the European continent.

You are worried about the future. However, you believe there is a non-trivial chance that Trump could accidentally scare us into reinventing the rules-based order that we used to take for granted. Is that a fair summary?

“I think we are in a very, very grave period for the world,” Kissinger replies. “I have conducted innumerable summit meetings, so they didn’t learn this one [Helsinki] from me.”"

&
See also:

Title: "What we're reading: Henry Kissinger on the rise of Trump"

https://www.axios.com/henry-kissinger-world-order-book-donald-trump-f8d87fdc-706c-4584-8f71-17a93b4ca15a.html

Extract: "A hyper-troubling thread is Kissinger's description of the bedrock of U.S. power from the beginning, and especially since World War II — its claim of moral high ground. Always, Americans have argued that other countries sought their cold, hard state interests, while the U.S. was foremost about values.

Before America First became the mantra, Kissinger warned against it:

"Calculations of power without a moral dimension will turn every disagreement into a test of strength; ambition will know no resting place; countries will be propelled into unsustainable tours de force of elusive calculations regarding the shifting configuration of power.""
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4835 on: August 26, 2018, 09:20:43 PM »
No matter what one thinks of Henry Kissinger,

No, it's very important what you think of Henry Kissinger. What do you think of Henry Kissinger? That guy is pure evil. Apparently Trump is somehow a threat to his bubble/world view. One would almost think that maybe Trump is doing something good here, that he really is upsetting the establishment status quo that is screwing over, killing and maiming so many people.

But no, they are both evil. They are both our enemies. They are both dividing us.

Please, stop posting posting this BS, ASLR. You have no idea how much it depresses me to see you post these quotes from fascists, criminals and torturers. Please, don't let Trump destroy your critical thinking skills.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4836 on: August 26, 2018, 10:01:16 PM »

But no, they are both evil. They are both our enemies. They are both dividing us.

Please, stop posting posting this BS, ASLR. You have no idea how much it depresses me to see you post these quotes from fascists, criminals and torturers. Please, don't let Trump destroy your critical thinking skills.

I'm not so sure.  I don't think the population can be divided into good people and bad people.  People are, I think, rather like models.  All are wrong, but some are useful.

Kissinger's intellectual abilities are not inconsiderable.  When in service to a Machiavellian power structure, quite evil.  However, he's not here speaking in such service, as far as I can see.

Focusing on the ideas and analysis, rather than the person, strikes me as most useful.

Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4837 on: August 26, 2018, 10:06:55 PM »
Neven, I thought your entry making an equivalency argument with John Brennan to Adolf Hitler/Joseph Stalin/Pol Pot was bad (it was actually HORRIBLE ..... John Brennan didn't send 700,000 people to their death all by himself).  That has to go down as one of the worst comments I've seen anyone make.  Any "PR tour" that John Brennan is on ..... would pale in a magnitude of a thousand suns compared to what Hitler or Stalin or Pot did.  Including them in the same paragraph is ridiculous.
 
Quote
No, it's very important what you think of Henry Kissinger. What do you think of Henry Kissinger? That guy is pure evil. Apparently Trump is somehow a threat to his bubble/world view. One would almost think that maybe Trump is doing something good here, that he really is upsetting the establishment status quo that is screwing over, killing and maiming so many people.

NO ..... one WOULDN'T think Trump is doing any good. PERIOD.  HE ISN'T DOING ANY GOOD.  And while I am no fan of Henry Kissinger ....... Donald Trump is 5 times worse ......

Quote
But no, they are both evil. They are both our enemies. They are both dividing us.

Everyone has a certain level of "evil" in them.  I don't think Kissinger comes close to Trump.  What will Trump do in Korea or Iran or Syria in coming months?  We may YET see what pure evil does.

Quote
Please, stop posting this BS, ASLR. You have no idea how much it depresses me to see you post these quotes from fascists, criminals and torturers. Please, don't let Trump destroy your critical thinking skills.

I for one .... didn't think it was "BS" ... at all.

You always seem to have this notion that with one wave of the wand ..... with one perfect candidate ..... we will all live in Camelot.  It isn't so.  The world is made of people with varying thoughts as to what is right and what is wrong.  What is best ..... and what is worst.  And while the US now has the worst president that I am aware of in my study of history (and many other historians as well) ...... you seem almost oblivious to it.

You eat an elephant ONE BITE AT A TIME ..... YOU CAN'T SWALLOW THE WHOLE THING IN ONE BITE...... 
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4838 on: August 26, 2018, 10:38:35 PM »
No matter what one thinks of Henry Kissinger,

No, it's very important what you think of Henry Kissinger. What do you think of Henry Kissinger? That guy is pure evil. Apparently Trump is somehow a threat to his bubble/world view. One would almost think that maybe Trump is doing something good here, that he really is upsetting the establishment status quo that is screwing over, killing and maiming so many people.

But no, they are both evil. They are both our enemies. They are both dividing us.

Please, stop posting posting this BS, ASLR. You have no idea how much it depresses me to see you post these quotes from fascists, criminals and torturers. Please, don't let Trump destroy your critical thinking skills.

Neven,

I do not believe in a simple dichotomy between good and evil.  Thus, I see Henry Kissinger as a man like other men, & I find it valuable to learn from as many different points of view as I can, in order to round-out my personal views of the world.  Further, in this article I admit that it is possible to take Kissinger's silence to directly criticize Trump as complicity with Trump's agenda; but I prefer to see his statement that: "... we are in a very, very grave period" rather as a warning that Trump's actions are likely to lead to future world suffering (however, I may be wrong about my take on Kissinger's underlining meaning with this statement).

That said, it does seem to me that we are all living in distressing times, and it is not my intent to add to that distress, but it is my intent to try to get people to see issues from more than one perspective at a time (even if holding such multiple points-of-view in one's mind causes some temporary discomfort to one's preconceived ideas).

Best regards,
ASLR
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4839 on: August 26, 2018, 11:06:05 PM »
" I don't think Kissinger comes close to Trump."

No. Trump has not yet massacred Cambodia, Vietnam, not to mention a host of nations in South America... the list goes on.

Brennan and Kissinger are war criminals par excellence, Kissinger much more so. Brennan just tortured a few people, defended and covered it up. Kissinger killed millions. Trump has a long way to go to descend to Kissinger's level.

sidd
 

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4840 on: August 26, 2018, 11:18:53 PM »

NO ..... one WOULDN'T think Trump is doing any good. PERIOD.  HE ISN'T DOING ANY GOOD.  And while I am no fan of Henry Kissinger ....... Donald Trump is 5 times worse ......



Tell it to 3,000,000 Cambodian Corpses.


While it might have been a history lessen to you, it was something some of us were losing blood for as we tried to shed light on the genocide.


What you think seems increasingly divorced from reality.


How's that $40BBL oil prediction going, or was it that you were sure oil would hit $20 before it hit $80?
Either way the $80 oil priced was reached, and dreams of cheap oil in the near future exist only in your fevered imaginings.


If you've learned all these lessons "from your study of history", then start over from the times of the Sumerian King Lists and work your way forward - slowly. We can discuss Gudea's rise to power this winter, and possibly you'd be ready for Hammurabi's inovations by next year.


A remedial English class that teaches communication without the need to shout might prove efficacious.
Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4841 on: August 27, 2018, 12:00:04 AM »

I do not believe in a simple dichotomy between good and evil.  Thus, I see Henry Kissinger as a man like other men, & I find it valuable to learn from as many different points of view as I can,
ASLR
Here then is a lesson to be learned.


Henry is not a man like other men. He's a monster beside whom other other monsters appear humanized.
A monster among monsters whose atrocities will be remembered forever.
An Ashurnasirpal of his (and our) time.


Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4842 on: August 27, 2018, 01:03:56 AM »
Among other Democrat leaders, the ranking Democrat member of the House 'Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, Rep. Elijah Cummings, will likely take the Trump Administration to task if/when the Democrats gain control of the House:

Title: "1 big thing ... Scoop: Republicans secretly study their coming hell"

https://www.axios.com/2018-midterm-elections-republicans-preparation-investigations-180abf7b-0de8-4670-ae8a-2e6da123c584.html

Extract: "The bottom line: Thanks to their control of Congress, Republicans have blocked most of the Democrats’ investigative requests. But if the House flips, the GOP loses its power to stymie. Lawyers close to the White House tell me the Trump administration is nowhere near prepared for the investigatory onslaught that awaits them, and they consider it among the greatest threats to his presidency."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4843 on: August 27, 2018, 07:34:54 AM »
The better responses to Sen McCain's death here :

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/8/25/1790963/-Senator-John-McCain-is-gone-Here-s-how-the-nation-reacted?detail=emaildkbn

Some of the best I would say are this one from Robert Reich :

Quote
With the passing of John McCain, we have lost a bastion of integrity and statesmanship. In a time of hatefulness and deceit, he renewed our sense of honor and decency. America has lost a good man.

and Nancy Pelosi :

Quote
.SenJohnMcCain was a leader & public servant of deep patriotism, outstanding bravery & undaunted spirit. Throughout his career, we all saw his integrity, humility, courage & grace. May it be a comfort to his family to know that so many around the world mourn with them.

Even though he differed from my opinions, Sen McCain was one of the few Republicans I deeply respect.

May he rest in peace.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4844 on: August 27, 2018, 09:23:27 AM »
Not as bad as Hitler or Nixon or Cheney. I'll give him that. Still very stupid and an aggressive  warmongering power abusing asshole. RIP

Calling McCain an 'asshole' now tells a lot a lot about you.
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mostly_lurking

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4845 on: August 27, 2018, 09:33:25 AM »
Not as bad as Hitler or Nixon or Cheney. I'll give him that. Still very stupid and an aggressive  warmongering power abusing asshole. RIP

Calling McCain an 'asshole' now tells a lot a lot about you.



Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4846 on: August 27, 2018, 09:33:44 AM »
Your quote : "How surprising. War-profiteers praising a war-monger, who'd have thought" goes right to RT.

Who'd have thought.
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Pmt111500

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4847 on: August 27, 2018, 09:43:19 AM »
I'd say rather clever to notice the blue stripe went on wrong place, the true flag is quite complicated.
Cooling the outside by heat pump.

mostly_lurking

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4848 on: August 27, 2018, 10:49:29 AM »


McCain might need his own thread....

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency (was "Presidential Poll")
« Reply #4849 on: August 27, 2018, 11:06:08 AM »
I was hoping that the silver lining of Trump becoming president, would be that people would really become part of a movement pushing for meaningful change (and not the neoliberal wishywashy stuff of the past 30 years). But instead we get quotes from war criminals and torturers, the embracing of fascist neocons, and sentimental eulogies for warmongers who wanted Sarah Palin to become vice-president. Zero progress and not even a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel...

I'm really going to need some time to come to grips with this and then step up my game in another direction.
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