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Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 809313 times)

blumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5800 on: January 03, 2020, 09:17:35 AM »
The Reddit thread about that killings is full of pro-war shills talking about how this is totally fine because it was self-defence.

The CIA doing their thing in front of our eyes, folks.

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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5801 on: January 03, 2020, 02:55:02 PM »

^^

An act of War?
An act of Premeditated Murder?

An act of State Sponsored Terrorism?


Or are we all living only by the good graces of the Executioner in Chief. The one that American voters choose for us every 4 years.


Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5802 on: January 03, 2020, 04:35:12 PM »
It's US interventionism!

Same old, same old.
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

Bruce Steele

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5803 on: January 03, 2020, 05:17:02 PM »
Why is it every  Dem on TV seems to rationalize Trumps  assassination of  Soleimani by saying he had
“Blood on his hands” . WTF , didn’t we invade Iraq under false pretense ? Didn’t we kill tens of thousands of Iraqis ( an some Iranians ) ? But the POS dems can’t even remember that a Republican  president sent us into that war and in fact George Bush was the aggressor and that the Republicans have blood on their hands. No wonder we keep ending up in wars , both parties are psycho.

https://www.cnsnews.com/article/washington/melanie-arter/booker-iranian-general-had-american-blood-his-hands-trump-has

blumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5804 on: January 03, 2020, 05:21:15 PM »
What is this called? Pre-projection?
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karl dubhe2

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5805 on: January 03, 2020, 05:37:20 PM »
He's gonna get us all killed.

I'm surprised we're still here, with that idiot in charge.

gandul

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5806 on: January 03, 2020, 05:43:31 PM »
Trump is such a danger. I’m sure this is an impulse that has jumped over all US intelligence. Cause I am sure people better informed would have not chosen this target. But Trump wants to silence Ukraine issue... This general is now a very prominent Martyr of the jihad conducted by the ‘glorious’ Revolutionary Islamic Nation of Iran.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 06:01:52 PM by gandul »

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5807 on: January 03, 2020, 06:14:13 PM »
Remember, no POTUS who ran for re-election in wartime has ever lost.
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gandul

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5808 on: January 03, 2020, 07:13:02 PM »
Yeah I can see that... Sadly.

vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5809 on: January 03, 2020, 07:44:52 PM »
Nearly 3,000 troops from 82nd Airborne to be deployed to Middle East
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/jan/03/iran-general-qassem-suleimani-killed-us-trump-drone-strike-baghdad-reaction-live-updates

Defense officials told the AP that nearly 3,000 more troops from the 82nd Airborne Division would be deployed to the Middle East amid fears of reprisals against the US for the killing of Iranian general Qassem Suleimani.

They are in addition to about 700 soldiers from the 82nd Airborne who deployed to Kuwait earlier this week after the storming of the U.S. Embassy compound in Baghdad by Iran-backed militiamen and their supporters.
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blumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5810 on: January 03, 2020, 07:46:25 PM »
Alternative future:

Imagine a big terror attack on the US in the next months.

People will assume it's an answer to Trump actions and it will fall him on his feet big time.

But even without that, the dynamics are different now. Trump has no allies, he's alone with this. BoJo distanced himself already. Merkel will not side with the idiot in chief because she would get lynched for it. I think this applies to almost all countries in the EU.

Could be a lose-lose situation for the warmongerers this time.

Only one thing is for sure though, too many innocent people will suffer and die however the big boys game will turn out.
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Pmt111500

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5811 on: January 04, 2020, 08:20:38 PM »
Tried to find the message here about three years ago in which I stated an agreement over Iran being the next US provocation target and a potential target for invasion. Could not find it so it must've been on another social media platform. Somewhat interesting if the Goodfellas had to ask approval from Russia or not.

If I remember correctly, the common consensus was that US does something of this kind early or summer 2019 but only half a year off is pretty good after 3 years.

I guess their FTA agreement with UK is possible for US if UK sends youngsters to fight somewhere, so people stay properly angry
Rather unsurprisingly, an oil producing country is in question.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 08:33:20 PM by Pmt111500 »
Cooling the outside by heat pump.

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5812 on: January 05, 2020, 09:08:42 AM »
Trump's tweet about striking Iran's cultural sites gained a whopping 182k 'likes' :
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1213593975732527112

Quote
....targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran &  the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!


But you know which tweet gained more hits ?

Bernie Sanders, with this tweet : 286k 'likes' :

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1213063708043366400

Quote
I was right about Vietnam.

I was right about Iraq.

I will do everything in my power to prevent a war with Iran.

I apologize to no one.

THAT is the next president of the United States.
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5813 on: January 05, 2020, 10:12:32 AM »
I noted the Pentagon news release that the Soleimani action was carried out "at the direction of the President" with some surprise. Here are two articles that might illuminate:

"Pentagon officials were stunned after President Donald Trump chose the harshest option available"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-05/pentagon-officials-stunned-by-trump-s-order-on-soleimani-nyt

" Pentagon officials have often offered improbable options to presidents to make other possibilities appear more palatable."

"The options included strikes on Iranian ships or missile facilities or against Iranian-backed militia groups in Iraq. The Pentagon also tacked on the choice of targeting General Suleimani, mainly to make other options seem reasonable. "

"When Mr. Trump chose the option of killing General Suleimani, top military officials, flabbergasted, were immediately alarmed about the prospect of Iranian retaliatory strikes on American troops in the region."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/04/us/politics/trump-suleimani.html

That's so cute. Trump don't trust the Pentagon or the spooks. And vice versa. Looks like they both bit off more than they can chew.

sidd

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5814 on: January 05, 2020, 12:41:22 PM »
It's interesting that two people here voted for Trump.
And I ain't one of them (though I voted for him) because I wasn't a member at the time.
I have a ten inch slide ruler and I am starting to slowly move the slider across the inches, one inch a month, till the next election. I will probably vote for Trump again (and hate it), but either way I can hardly wait to see what the next four years will bring.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5815 on: January 05, 2020, 01:26:46 PM »
Tom, that's honestly the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

Only religious fundamentalism can make people say shit like this.
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5816 on: January 05, 2020, 01:59:28 PM »
Tom, that's honestly the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

Only religious fundamentalism can make people say shit like this.
blumenkraft, that’s the stupidest thing I ever heard.
I would explain why (using science, not religion) but Neven does not want that topic debated here.

blumenkraft & I carried this on by PM.
We agree to disagree.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 06:44:33 PM by Tom_Mazanec »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5817 on: January 05, 2020, 06:19:44 PM »
Quote
If the chatter on social media is true, Trump asked the Iraqi PM to mediate with Iran on our behalf. Soleimani traveled to Iraq for that purpose, and we killed him.
That is not a good look, especially if we knew why he was there. What the actual fuck.
https://twitter.com/Mustafa_salimb/status/1213753153449086977
This is a Washington Post reporter in Baghdad, not some rando.
ETA: Here is another journalist (Atlantic, Guardian) with the same reporting: https://twitter.com/hxhassan/status/1213830321478737921
ETA2: And another from NPR: https://twitter.com/janearraf/status/1213823941321592834

Link >> https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/ekdzaq/iraqi_parliament_votes_to_expel_all_american/fda1620/
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

Florifulgurator

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5818 on: January 06, 2020, 02:02:19 AM »
Looks like Trump's people don't have any consistent story to offer about the Suleimani assassination. Pompeo, Pence, Rubio, etc. all talking/tweeting crap...
But there is a story:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/16/iran-tells-middle-east-militias-prepare-for-proxy-war
Quote
Thu 16 May 2019

Iran’s most prominent military leader has recently met Iraqi militias in Baghdad and told them to “prepare for proxy war”, the Guardian has learned.
[...]
While Suleimani has met regularly with leaders of Iraq’s myriad Shia groups over the past five years, the nature and tone of this gathering was different. “It wasn’t quite a call to arms, but it wasn’t far off,” one source said.

The meeting has led to a frenzy of diplomatic activity between US, British and Iraqi officials who are trying to banish the spectre of clashes between Tehran and Washington and who now fear that Iraq could become an arena for conflict.

The gathering partly informed a US decision to evacuate non-essential diplomatic staff from the US embassy in Baghdad and Erbil and to raise the threat status at US bases in Iraq.
[...]

At least the less demented Pompeo should be able to tell something like that. But nope.

Wasn't there a law against political assassinations since president Carter or Ford? Occasion for one more impeachment article?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 02:10:28 AM by Florifulgurator »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5819 on: January 06, 2020, 05:17:42 AM »
Recent tweets from the President of the United States :

After he kills an Iranian general (which is an act of war), he tells Iran not to respond, or else the US would hit cultural sites :

Quote
....targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran &  the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD.

which would be a war-crime.

And when Iraq parliament voted that US forces are no longer desired in their country, Trump responded with :

Quote
“We have a very extraordinarily expensive air base that’s there...We’re not leaving unless they pay us back for it....We will charge them sanctions like they’ve never seen before ever.”

Quote
“If they do ask us to leave, if we don’t do it in a very friendly basis. We will charge them sanctions like they’ve never seen before ever. It’ll make Iranian sanctions look somewhat tame.”

OK.

I know there has been a lot of pissing on certain Democrats in this forum. Probably deserved.

But can you guys now please join the rest of us and focus our effort on the big Orange Gorilla in the room ?

And getting this lunatic out of the WH and his corrupt Republican party out of power in 2020 ?

Thanks !
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 05:41:52 AM by Rob Dekker »
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sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5820 on: January 06, 2020, 05:41:47 AM »
Ames suggests that the Pentagon suckered Trump into the Soleimani hit:

"US military-intelligence deliberately goaded Trump into whacking Suleimani to settle old scores, and now they want us to pin all the blame on Trump and absolve themselves from the coming shitstorm"

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1213871356602966017?s=20

sidd

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5821 on: January 06, 2020, 06:35:20 AM »
Insane that we need to invoke this now, but just in case the lunatic in chief happens to go further than he already did, there is this :

The War Crimes Act.

If you are in the military or are a civilian advising on U.S. military operations, read it.
The Nuremberg defense — “I was just following orders” — is not a defense.

18 U.S. Code § 2441 - War crimes | U.S. Code
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2441
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Florifulgurator

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5822 on: January 06, 2020, 01:51:12 PM »
Ames suggests that the Pentagon suckered Trump into the Soleimani hit:

"US military-intelligence deliberately goaded Trump into whacking Suleimani to settle old scores, and now they want us to pin all the blame on Trump and absolve themselves from the coming shitstorm"

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1213871356602966017?s=20

sidd
Perhaps Ames has it upside down: The Pentagon presents the options and the President decides what to do. Trump chose the most stupid option - doing exactly what he was elected for: being stupid and clueless..
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/04/us/politics/trump-suleimani.html
Quote
WASHINGTON — In the chaotic days leading to the death of Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, Iran’s most powerful commander, top American military officials put the option of killing him — which they viewed as the most extreme response to recent Iranian-led violence in Iraq — on the menu they presented to President Trump.

They didn’t think he would take it. In the wars waged since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Pentagon officials have often offered improbable options to presidents to make other possibilities appear more palatable.
[...]

--------------------

The  $80M bounty on President Trump's head seems not yet official. Hilarious idea. If successful I'd add another 1000€ from my personal savings for the plastination and exhibition of the head in a nice glass shrine. :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastination
https://www.newsweek.com/qassem-soleimani-eulogist-offers-80-million-bounty-donald-trump-head-iranian-general-funeral-1480513
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/iran-trump-bounty/
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 01:56:14 PM by Florifulgurator »
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vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5823 on: January 06, 2020, 04:45:12 PM »
Ames suggests that the Pentagon suckered Trump into the Soleimani hit:

"US military-intelligence deliberately goaded Trump into whacking Suleimani to settle old scores, and now they want us to pin all the blame on Trump and absolve themselves from the coming shitstorm"

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/1213871356602966017?s=20

sidd

Dezinformatsiya

https://www.polygraph.info/a/trump-soleimani-strike-russia/30359204.html

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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5824 on: January 06, 2020, 09:18:15 PM »
Thank goodness that Clinton isn’t POTUS, otherwise we would be looking at wars in Iran, North
Korea, and we would have environmental protections stripped away. 😉😉
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oren

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5825 on: January 06, 2020, 10:52:44 PM »
Buddy, it's been a long time... welcome back.

Bruce Steele

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5826 on: January 07, 2020, 12:25:54 AM »
Buddy, Didn’t you have a bet with someone that oil prices would drop below $45 before they rose above $90 ? Did you collect ?
 And welcome back.

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5827 on: January 07, 2020, 02:30:45 AM »
Screw the prisoners: they deserve to live in shit

"the court held that an inmate’s right not to be locked in a feces-covered cell for six days was not “clearly established,” ... “we do not suggest” that “prison officials cannot require inmates to sleep naked on the floor. There can be any number of perfectly valid reasons for doing so.”  "

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/12/fifth-circuit-trump-judges-devastating.html

Land of the free and home of the brave.

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Buddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5828 on: January 07, 2020, 04:27:40 AM »
Bruce:

My “bet” was that XOM (Exxon Mobil) will hit $60 BEFORE it hits $90 again (the all time high from 5 yrs ago or so was a little over $100).

Bet has still not resolved itself (got down to $65ish and was as high as $89.30 a year or so ago).

I DO think oil price will go below $35ish .... but that may be after we have a multi year rally if we destroy enough capacity for a rally.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5829 on: January 07, 2020, 11:25:07 AM »
Occasion for one more impeachment article?

Why, of course. A much better one than the Ukrainegate stupidity, just like the emoluments stuff, the bombing of Yemenis, and so on.

But Corporate Democrats will not impeach Trump on things that either their donors don't want (Big Armaments, Big Oil) or that may set precedents that then come back and haunt them (corruption, starting illegal wars). Are they pushing the obvious political attack that Trump promised to stop the endless wars, and is now starting one? No, they ask for a 'rationale' to bomb an 'obviously evil man' without asking their permission first.

I think Trump is doing this to distract from the impeachment stuff, not because he's afraid it will hurt him, but because he's afraid it may get concluded too soon, and he wants to use it for his re-election.
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Florifulgurator

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5830 on: January 07, 2020, 10:16:37 PM »
Luckily he didn't start atomic war with Russia. But the next Dem president will sure listen to Rachel Maddow's war mongering. :)
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sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5831 on: January 08, 2020, 12:45:36 AM »
Trump walks back threat to Iran cultural sites, moots eventual withdrawal from Iraq, still wants money:

“If that’s what the law is, I like to obey the law,”

"Trump said his long-term intention was withdraw the 5,200 US troops currently in Iraq, but not right away"

"When the US did leave, the president insisted, Iraq would have to reimburse Washington for the infrastructure investments Washington has made over a nearly 17-year presence."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/07/trump-iran-suleimani-threats-retaliation

If you believe anything Trump or military-industrial complex says ...

sidd

TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5832 on: January 08, 2020, 05:28:32 PM »
<snipped>

"When the US did leave, the president insisted, Iraq would have to reimburse Washington for the infrastructure investments Washington has made over a nearly 17-year presence."
<snipped

sidd
America "won" Hawaii by holding the citizens of Waikiki hostage. She "won" California and the "American" West by holding Mexican woman and children hostage. Surrender your land, or we'll kill them all.


Proving that Pirate Diplomacy isn't dead, Trump now threatens to hold Iraq hostage until they pay for the damage America's Mercenaries have inflicted, as well as the blood money they were paid.


The Shia are a very forgiving people it seems.
Terry

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5833 on: January 09, 2020, 01:21:24 AM »

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5834 on: January 09, 2020, 11:20:45 AM »
Caitlin Johnstone:

Quote
Full-Scale War Is Avoided And Trump Goes Right Back To Warmongering

The United States and Iran entered into a direct military exchange for the first time ever with the drone assassination of General Qassem Soleimani last week and a retaliatory strike from Iran via surface-to-surface missiles upon two US military bases on Wednesday.

As usual it was the less powerful nation who exercised restraint, with Iran skillfully targeting the bases’ military capabilities but taking measures to successfully avoid any casualties. The two nations de-escalated back down to their previous high level of dangerous hostilities with an understanding between them that neither side wants a full-scale war. Both sides played “chicken” and both sides swerved, and they know that about each other now.

So that was a relief. We were all forced to hold our breath and hope against hope that cooler heads would prevail after the senseless assassination of a sovereign nation’s top military official, and they did. A full-scale war that would have dwarfed Iraq and Vietnam in terms of death, destruction and destabilization was averted.

And then Trump immediately went right back to warmongering.

(...)

So things are only continuing to heat up with Iran, and there is no reason to believe more eruptions like the direct military confrontation we just experienced won’t occur again, with the world perhaps getting a lot less lucky next time. Trump and his supporters are trying to claim the evasion of full-scale war as a victory for both peace and for America, but it is neither.

All of the defenses of Trump’s warmongering that you’ve been seeing are premised upon the unquestioned assumption that it is both reasonable and acceptable for the United States to maintain a military presence in the Middle East, even in nations whose governments don’t want them there like Iraq and Syria. If the US didn’t insist on maintaining an enormous military presence in this one area on the other side of the planet, there would be no debate about the need for America to “defend” itself by attacking the Iranian economy, assassinating government officials, and conducting airstrikes upon Iraqi militias. It would just be another country on the other side of the world, doing its own thing in its own way.

Most Americans haven’t thought very hard about this premise. They are fed some lines about the need to protect American “interests” and some unexplained need to defend Israel, and because those lines are spoken in an authoritative tone of voice most are content to leave it there. But if Americans actually laid out all the facts in front of them and thought deeply about what their government’s Middle Eastern military presence costs them and risks for them compared to what it actually gains them, it would be seen for the insane imperialist power agenda that it so clearly is.

Entire article here.
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TerryM

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5835 on: January 09, 2020, 07:20:24 PM »
Caitlin Johnstone:

Quote
Full-Scale War Is Avoided And Trump Goes Right Back To Warmongering

The United States and Iran entered into a direct military exchange for the first time ever with the drone assassination of General Qassem Soleimani last week and a retaliatory strike from Iran via surface-to-surface missiles upon two US military bases on Wednesday.

As usual it was the less powerful nation who exercised restraint, with Iran skillfully targeting the bases’ military capabilities but taking measures to successfully avoid any casualties. The two nations de-escalated back down to their previous high level of dangerous hostilities with an understanding between them that neither side wants a full-scale war. Both sides played “chicken” and both sides swerved, and they know that about each other now.

So that was a relief. We were all forced to hold our breath and hope against hope that cooler heads would prevail after the senseless assassination of a sovereign nation’s top military official, and they did. A full-scale war that would have dwarfed Iraq and Vietnam in terms of death, destruction and destabilization was averted.

And then Trump immediately went right back to warmongering.

(...)

So things are only continuing to heat up with Iran, and there is no reason to believe more eruptions like the direct military confrontation we just experienced won’t occur again, with the world perhaps getting a lot less lucky next time. Trump and his supporters are trying to claim the evasion of full-scale war as a victory for both peace and for America, but it is neither.

All of the defenses of Trump’s warmongering that you’ve been seeing are premised upon the unquestioned assumption that it is both reasonable and acceptable for the United States to maintain a military presence in the Middle East, even in nations whose governments don’t want them there like Iraq and Syria. If the US didn’t insist on maintaining an enormous military presence in this one area on the other side of the planet, there would be no debate about the need for America to “defend” itself by attacking the Iranian economy, assassinating government officials, and conducting airstrikes upon Iraqi militias. It would just be another country on the other side of the world, doing its own thing in its own way.

Most Americans haven’t thought very hard about this premise. They are fed some lines about the need to protect American “interests” and some unexplained need to defend Israel, and because those lines are spoken in an authoritative tone of voice most are content to leave it there. But if Americans actually laid out all the facts in front of them and thought deeply about what their government’s Middle Eastern military presence costs them and risks for them compared to what it actually gains them, it would be seen for the insane imperialist power agenda that it so clearly is.

Entire article here.


Neven
The reason most Americans haven't "thought very hard" about the Trump keeping a military presence in countries that would prefer to show them the door, is because that is what America has been doing since before I was born. (and I was born in 1946)


Blaming Trump for policies that have been in place since the presidency of FDR, if not much earlier, is IMHO as dangerous as attacking him for Russiagate or Ukrainegate.


Aerial Assassination, with Presidential Participation, has been openly acknowledged by both political parties. How does one (successfully) attack Trump for activities that you approved of when your leader(s) were the ones drawing up the weekly death lists.


If Trump can't be brought down for policy decisions that his administration has made, perhaps he hasn't been as malignant a force as we believe. - At least that's liable to be the position taken by undecided voters.


We've had 3 years to attack Trump for:


Domestically:
Actions against Mexican migrants.
Attempts to preserve coal mining & usage.
Successfully weakening the EPA.


Foreign:
Disruption of trade through Nafta rewrites,
Sanctions even against allies.
China trade agreements.
Pulling out of the Paris Accords.


He's guilty of plenty of other nastiness, but these are generally straight from the Republican Playbook, and the guilt lies close to their doorstep.


By the end of 2019 Trump was tied with Obama as "America's most admired man", his highest ranking in 3 years!


Pelosi's dreams of a tight race for the Presidency have come true. Hundreds of Millions will flow through the DNC's hands and a percentage of this will grease the sweaty palms of democratic consultants, pollsters & "leaders". They don't make donations, they pocket them.


Trump in 2020 went from a longshot to a 50/50 pick-em. In 11 months it may be a shoo-in.
Thanks Nancy
Terry

Neven

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5836 on: January 09, 2020, 10:38:09 PM »
Blaming Trump for policies that have been in place since the presidency of FDR, if not much earlier, is IMHO as dangerous as attacking him for Russiagate or Ukrainegate.

Terry, you don't get the point. When politicians promise something and they do the exact opposite, you clobber them over the head with it, and keep pounding. One of Trump's central campaign promises four years ago, was that he would stop the endless wars, and so on. Who knows how many people voted for him because of it, instead of warmonger sociopath Hillary Clinton.

For instance:

Quote
Donald Trump has laid out a US military policy that would avoid interventions in foreign conflicts and instead focus heavily on defeating Islamic State militancy.

“We will stop racing to topple foreign regimes that we know nothing about, that we shouldn’t be involved with,” the president-elect said on Tuesday night in Fayetteville, near Fort Bragg military base in North Carolina.

“Instead our focus must be on defeating terrorism and destroying Isis, and we will.”

Iran was fighting ISIS, but Trump decided to assassinate an Iranian Major General and almost start a major war.

Or take this:

Quote
On April 27, 2016, then-Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump used an invitation-only event at Washington’s ornate Mayflower Hotel to argue that presidents of both parties had gotten the US ensnared in too many costly, grinding foreign wars.

That, Trump promised, would change once he moved into the White House.

“I will never send our finest into battle unless necessary, and I mean absolutely necessary, and will only do so if we have a plan for victory with a capital V,” he thundered. “The world must know that we do not go abroad in search of enemies.”

Or just last year: Trump says US must stop its ‘endless wars' and bring troops home.

A Democratic presidential candidate would be wise to pound this broken campaign promise, unless his/her donors don't want it, of course.
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sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5837 on: January 09, 2020, 11:44:19 PM »
Malic at RT has a take on the trump presidency as professional wrestling:

" before he ran for president, before he had a hit reality TV show… he was a superstar of professional wrestling."

"everything is staged but everyone pretends it is real and true. There is even a specific term for maintaining this pretense before the general public: kayfabe."

"It sounds unbelievable, right? Yet there is no denying that it is precisely how events played themselves out. "

"Both of them ended up looking triumphant, while their hysterical critics and doomsayers ended up looking like fools. And let’s remember, in politics and pro wrestling alike, perception is everything."

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/477763-trump-iran-wrestling-kayfabe/

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5838 on: January 09, 2020, 11:45:32 PM »
Wait, what ? DiFi kneecaps Pelosi on impeachment delay ?

"So if it's serious and urgent, send them over. If it isn't, don't send it over."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51042196

A rift in the lute.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5839 on: January 10, 2020, 02:40:45 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States:

Quote
Trump Complains About Not Winning the Nobel Peace Prize Days After Threatening to Commit War Crimes
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5840 on: January 10, 2020, 10:54:20 PM »
Neven
I get it that Trump hasn't delivered on promises of peace.


Which of the post WWII presidents have?


Terry

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5841 on: January 11, 2020, 11:03:02 AM »
Neven
I get it that Trump hasn't delivered on promises of peace.


Which of the post WWII presidents have?


Terry
Eisenhower probably came closest, and at least warned about the Military-Industrial Complex.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5842 on: January 11, 2020, 01:28:55 PM »
Again, Terry, that's not the point.

Quote
I get it that Trump hasn't delivered on promises of peace.

Which of the post WWII presidents have?

Any president that promised to end wars, and then extends them or starts new ones, should be punished for it politically by his opponents. Trump likes to present himself as the anti-establishment candidate, and the anti-war message is a big part of that. But he isn't anti-establishment at all, he's part of the swamp. And so, whenever he does something that shows he's part of the establishment, like performing tax cuts for the rich, cutting social security/medicare, or in this case, pleasing the military-industrial complex, he needs to be pounded for it.

The difference with Russiagate and Ukrainegate is that those types of 'attacks' actually provide an argument for his anti-establishment narrative. Which is why they are so fundamentally stupid.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5843 on: January 12, 2020, 08:35:44 AM »
^^
I'll get back to this subject in a few days. You're making some good points - particularly regarding the MIC.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5844 on: January 12, 2020, 09:30:06 AM »
Trump likes to present himself as the anti-establishment candidate, and the anti-war message is a big part of that.
...
The difference with Russiagate and Ukrainegate is that those types of 'attacks' actually provide an argument for his anti-establishment narrative. Which is why they are so fundamentally stupid.

Trump "anti-war" ? What are you smoking ?

Quote
On Trump's first full day in office, in January 2017, according to The Post, the CIA showed Trump a recording of a drone strike in which operators had waited to strike until the target wandered away from his home, which had his family inside. But Trump apparently questioned the move.

"Why did you wait?" the person at the meeting recalled Trump saying.

and he campaigned on war crimes with statements like this :

Quote
"When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families..."

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-cia-drone-strike-terrorist-families-2018-4

No other president in the history of the US has ever advocated a war-crime, until Trump campaigned on it.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5845 on: January 12, 2020, 05:26:10 PM »
Rob, we agree.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5846 on: January 13, 2020, 06:03:48 AM »
Rob, we agree.

Wow. It's been a while. Glad you agree.

Just to be sure I understand you : you DO find that war crimes are BAD, right ?
Like, for example, if some country would ... I don't know ... maybe bomb hospitals in Syria or something
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/russia-bombing-syrian-hospitals.html
that that is BAD and should be reported upon and denouned too, right ?

Thanks if you agree with that too.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5847 on: January 13, 2020, 01:58:15 PM »
Sure.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5848 on: January 13, 2020, 05:06:38 PM »
Dear Rob, I find it strange that you trust the New York Times on correct reporting regarding Russia in the Middle East.
I would look for my information somewhere outside of the U.S.A. block.
Of course I don't know whether it's true or not. I'm not defending anything, just pointing out the shaky information source in this context.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #5849 on: January 13, 2020, 05:14:45 PM »
Well, Rob posted that news from DW and got snipped IIRC.
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