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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6150 on: November 05, 2020, 12:54:19 AM »
The Guardian view on the US elections: a nation dangerously divided
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/04/the-guardian-view-on-the-us-elections-a-nation-dangerously-divided
Quote
Should he depart, and there are few signs he will do so without a fight, Mr Trump’s legacy will be the politics of anger and hate. It is a tragedy for America that a poisonous division is becoming the norm rather than the exception. The concern in the US is that cultural divisions have gone past the point of no return. The priority for Americans must be to work out a way to stop the political rift from yawning so wide that the two hostile, sometimes armed, camps are incapable of talking to each other.
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6151 on: November 05, 2020, 11:03:49 AM »
Seth Abramson recently posted the attached list of nine steps that he believes that Donald Trump is planning on to steal the 2020 presidential (& VP) election by claiming fraudulent voting to pressure GOP state official to block otherwise valid electors so that no one gets 270 votes in the electoral college vote thus forcing a contingent election as described in the linked Wikipedia article.  As the voting to determine the next president would be determined in the House of Representatives with each House state delegation casting a single vote; which implies that they would elect Donald Trump as there are more GOP House state delegations than there are Democrat House state delegations.  Furthermore, Seth Abramson believes that the best way to stop Trump's Plan is to expose it as widely as possible so that at least one step of his plan is prevented and Seth suggests that Step 7 "Use GOP official to block electors" is the best place for the public to pressure state officials not to follow Trump's plan to block otherwise valid electors.

Spread the word.

Title: "Contingent election"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election

Extract: "In the United States, a contingent election is the procedure used in presidential elections in the event that no candidate wins an absolute majority of votes in the Electoral College, the constitutional mechanism for electing the president and the vice president of the United States. A contingent election for the president is decided by a vote of the United States House of Representatives, and the contingent election for the vice president is decided by a vote of the United States Senate.

The contingent election procedure, along with the other parts of the presidential election process, was first established in Article Two, Section 1, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution, and then modified by the 12th Amendment in 1804. During a contingent election, each House state delegation casts one en bloc vote to determine the president, rather than a vote for each representative. Senators instead cast votes individually for vice president.

All three contingent elections in the 1800s were held by the outgoing Congress, as, at the time, congressional terms ended/began on the same day as presidential terms. In the event of a future Electoral College deadlock regarding either the presidential election or the vice presidential election, it will be the incoming Congress holding a contingent election. This is because the 1933 20th Amendment changed it so that congressional terms now end/begin before presidential and vice presidential terms do."

If Trump can manage to get either The U.S. Supreme Court and/or GOP control State Legislatures to delay the certification of a sufficient number of electors to prevent either Biden or Trump from having 270 certified electors by December 8, 2020 then the winner of the 2020 presidential race will be determined by the House of Representatives with each House state delegation casting one en bloc vote to determine the president, rather than a vote for each representative.  As the GOP controls more House state delegations, they would almost certainly elect Trump.


Title: "The 2020 Election - Provisions of the Constitution and U.S. Code"

https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/state-officials/presidential-election-brochure.pdf

Extract: "4. December 8, 2020
Date for Determination of Controversy as to Appointment of Electors:
- States must make final determinations of any controversies or contests as to the appointment of electors at least six days before the December 14 meetings of electors for their electoral votes to be presumptively valid when presented to Congress. Determinations by States’ lawful tribunals are conclusive, if decided under laws enacted prior to election day.

5. December 14, 2020
Meeting of the Electors and Sending Certificates of Vote to NARA (first Monday after second Wednesday in December):
- The electors meet in their respective States to select the President and Vice President of the United States. No Constitutional provision or Federal law requires electors to vote in accordance with the popular vote in their States. The Supreme Court decided (in 2020) that States can enact requirements on how electors vote. The Electoral College web site lists the States that we are aware of that have laws to bind electors to candidates."
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vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6152 on: November 05, 2020, 07:54:42 PM »




“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

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gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6153 on: November 06, 2020, 07:20:09 PM »
Trouble is, even if he loses as now seems very likely, that fucker will be entitled to and demand to be addressed as President to his dying day.
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The Walrus

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6154 on: November 06, 2020, 07:34:13 PM »
Trouble is, even if he loses as now seems very likely, that fucker will be entitled to and demand to be addressed as President to his dying day.

Actually he is not entitled to be addresses as president.  That title is reserved for the current office holder.  His salutation reverts to his previous title, Mr. Trump.  The moderators during the debates incorrectly referred to Biden as vice president.

Paddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6155 on: November 06, 2020, 08:19:07 PM »
Regarding all these concerns of Republicans potentially using shenanigans to block electors, does that get tougher to do to any meaningful extent the more swing states that Biden wins?

The Walrus

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6156 on: November 06, 2020, 08:35:48 PM »
Regarding all these concerns of Republicans potentially using shenanigans to block electors, does that get tougher to do to any meaningful extent the more swing states that Biden wins?

Yes.  Had Trump held PA and GA, and Biden AZ and NV, the electoral count was 270-268.  It would take just one elector to change the outcome.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6157 on: November 06, 2020, 08:46:53 PM »
Trouble is, even if he loses as now seems very likely, that fucker will be entitled to and demand to be addressed as President to his dying day.

Actually he is not entitled to be addresses as president.  That title is reserved for the current office holder.  His salutation reverts to his previous title, Mr. Trump.  The moderators during the debates incorrectly referred to Biden as vice president.
According to Wikipedia (and Huffington Post, per reference),
Quote
Historically, the title [President] was reserved for the incumbent president only, and was not be used for former presidents, holding that it was not proper to use the title as a courtesy title when addressing a former president. Despite that, some sources maintain that living former U.S. presidents continue to be addressed as "Mr. President", both formally and informally, and some contemporary experts on etiquette now maintain that it is entirely appropriate.
I guess we cannot agree on anything:P
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6158 on: November 08, 2020, 12:24:27 AM »
I read a cheery  ;D little article a few weeks back about how state prosecutors from several jurisdictions are waiting to file charges as soon as he is out of office. Most of these have nothing to do with the crimes he committed as president. They fully expect him to be in jail or fled the country within a year of leaving office. Maybe that is why he kept saying how wonderful dictators are because he needs a place to hide after.

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6159 on: November 08, 2020, 01:02:22 AM »
Does the secret service have to keep protecting him if he leaves the country...or if he is in jail ? :o
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6160 on: November 08, 2020, 01:29:04 AM »
^ Won't be able to leave the country with felony indictments hanging over his head. He might not make bail.

But he'll have plenty of security ...

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Hefaistos

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6161 on: November 08, 2020, 01:43:19 AM »
Now that the election is ending, Trump doesn't have to worry about making a good impression (to the extent that he does). Do you think he is going to be even more Trumpish for 2 months/four years (depending)?

Not unexpected that this would appear. Funny it is:


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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6162 on: November 08, 2020, 02:07:52 AM »
Once his defeat sets in Trump will try and do as much damage to the country that he can in his time left. He won't sign any covid relief bill unless he can use it to line his pockets. He is spiteful so that is what I expect.

Paddy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6163 on: November 08, 2020, 09:38:44 AM »
Once his defeat sets in Trump will try and do as much damage to the country that he can in his time left. He won't sign any covid relief bill unless he can use it to line his pockets. He is spiteful so that is what I expect.

Especially to States that voted blue. Do you remember when he refused California disaster aid literally on the basis that they wouldn't vote for him anyway?

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6164 on: November 08, 2020, 10:24:02 AM »
Yeah, it's almost incomprehensible what a piece of sh!t this guy has been for a pres.

I do think it's possible he'll resign (but call it something else)...bully narcissists can't stand to lose. But if he says he's bored by the job now, like Sarah Palin did as governor of Alaska, he can kind of save some kind of face, at least in his own mind.

I still think he is gonna try to claim some kind of legal victory and further try to muddy the waters.

This kind of bottom feeding fish thrives in muddy waters
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Iain

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6165 on: November 08, 2020, 11:57:28 AM »
I don't see the Trumps (DT, sons, wife, ....) fading away, way too big egos and support (71M voters)

Prosecutions will just add to the persecution conspiracies, his believers are prepared to believe.

BTW I haven't heard a denial :

Reports of INCREASED UFO ACTIVITY in SWING STATES around the time the counting changed IN FAVOR OF BIDEN.

There just has to be something in that.

(Just kidding, just kidding)

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The Walrus

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6166 on: November 08, 2020, 02:11:48 PM »
I don't see the Trumps (DT, sons, wife, ....) fading away, way too big egos and support (71M voters)

(Just kidding, just kidding)

I agree.  Remember he was constantly stoking his ego prior to his presidential run.  I picture him more like Clinton, than either Obama or Bush.

oren

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6167 on: November 08, 2020, 04:59:30 PM »
He will probably become a Twitter whip and the dreaded kingmaker of the Republicans. I don't envision him fading.

karl dubhe2

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6168 on: November 08, 2020, 05:09:31 PM »
Trouble is, even if he loses as now seems very likely, that fucker will be entitled to and demand to be addressed as President to his dying day.

Actually he is not entitled to be addresses as president.  That title is reserved for the current office holder.  His salutation reverts to his previous title, Mr. Trump.  The moderators during the debates incorrectly referred to Biden as vice president.

Well, kinda.   :)   It's also a form of respect to address the former office holder with their former title.   It can also be a form of polite disrespect to call someone 'Mr.' I think the nice people will call Trump Mr., me I'll call him something else.  (which might get me banned, so I wont.  I'll just leave that to your imagination.) 

AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6169 on: November 08, 2020, 06:12:08 PM »
...

If Trump can manage to get either The U.S. Supreme Court and/or GOP control State Legislatures to delay the certification of a sufficient number of electors to prevent either Biden or Trump from having 270 certified electors by December 8, 2020 then the winner of the 2020 presidential race will be determined by the House of Representatives with each House state delegation casting one en bloc vote to determine the president, rather than a vote for each representative.  As the GOP controls more House state delegations, they would almost certainly elect Trump.


Title: "The 2020 Election - Provisions of the Constitution and U.S. Code"

https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/state-officials/presidential-election-brochure.pdf

Extract: "4. December 8, 2020
Date for Determination of Controversy as to Appointment of Electors:
- States must make final determinations of any controversies or contests as to the appointment of electors at least six days before the December 14 meetings of electors for their electoral votes to be presumptively valid when presented to Congress. Determinations by States’ lawful tribunals are conclusive, if decided under laws enacted prior to election day.

5. December 14, 2020
Meeting of the Electors and Sending Certificates of Vote to NARA (first Monday after second Wednesday in December):
- The electors meet in their respective States to select the President and Vice President of the United States. No Constitutional provision or Federal law requires electors to vote in accordance with the popular vote in their States. The Supreme Court decided (in 2020) that States can enact requirements on how electors vote. The Electoral College web site lists the States that we are aware of that have laws to bind electors to candidates."

If I were to be paranoid, I would be concerned that Trump is planning on getting the GOP controlled State Legislatures in at least: Georgia, Arizona, and Pennsylvania and maybe in: Wisconsin and/or Michigan to convene and to rule that the votes in key cities are tainted and are ruled to be thrown out by December 8th, and then in one joint case have the Supreme Court rule that these State Legislatures have the constitutional right to rule these votes tainted (& not be counted).  This would leave Biden just short of the 270 elector votes required to make him president elect on December 14, 2020.  This would mean that the GOP controlled (as defined by state delegations, not seats) House would vote to make Trump to be president elect and the GOP controlled Senate (even if Georgia votes for two Democrats on January 5, 2020) would make Pence the V.P. elect.

I am not saying that this is going to happen, unless Trump has exceptional influence over these State Legislatures and at least over five Supreme Court Justices.
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gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6170 on: November 08, 2020, 09:50:08 PM »
They will be coming to take him away

https://youtu.be/4kAi26r99_0?t=2


« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 10:32:07 PM by gerontocrat »
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"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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gandul

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6171 on: November 08, 2020, 11:32:38 PM »
He will probably become a Twitter whip and the dreaded kingmaker of the Republicans. I don't envision him fading.
There’ll be Trump 2024 and given the lamentable couple entering the White House, he’ll win and we’ll have four more awful Trump years... thanks to the dems, those “leftists” so detached from the people

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6172 on: November 08, 2020, 11:48:53 PM »
The world looks like a mirror version of John Ringo's The Last Centurion. This novel has a thinly disguised Hillary Clinton being dragged out of the WH in a world devastated by bird flu and global cooling. JR must be grinding his teeth!
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6173 on: November 09, 2020, 11:13:37 PM »
While they won't say it publicly trump made enemies of many republicans in power. He threw a tantrum every time things didn't go exactly his way. He was trying to install enough sycophant's all over the place to just ignore the laws and stay in power. He berated republicans almost as much as he did his enemies. Now that he has been voted out the reporting has become more honest. Before they reported his lies than in the article at the end question its accuracy. I have observed a shift in how he is reported on. Now they are upfront about it in the headline. Instead of Trump sues Pennsylvania for fraudulent votes. Now the headline is Trump makes baseless claims of voter irregularities. After he is dragged out of the Whitehouse and yes that is just the sort of stunt he might pull. Once that happens he will be forced to flee the country or go to jail.  Prosecutors will start filing charges the day after Biden is sworn in. Some republican leaders may be loyal at first but most if not all will distance themselves from him. His support will fall apart as the press will just start ignoring what he has to say. They will still report about what is happening to him. They probably won't pursue him for all the corruption charges he deserves which is fucked up. If federal charges are filed Biden may even pardon those crime in a messed up attempt to unify the country.  I don't think trump will have much influence once he is no longer president. That is my expectation anyway.

vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6174 on: November 10, 2020, 01:48:51 PM »
Goebbels would be proud ...

Analysis of Trump's Tweets Reveals Systematic Diversion of the Media
https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2020/november/trump-twitter.html
https://phys.org/news/2020-11-analysis-trump-tweets-reveals-systematic.html

President Donald Trump's controversial use of social media is widely known and theories abound about its ulterior motives. New research published today in Nature Communications claims to provide the first evidence-based analysis demonstrating the US President's Twitter account has been routinely deployed to divert attention away from a topic potentially harmful to his reputation, in turn suppressing negative related media coverage.

The international study, led by the University of Bristol in the UK, tested two hypotheses: whether an increase in harmful media coverage was followed by increased diversionary Twitter activity, and if such diversion successfully reduced subsequent media coverage of the harmful topic.

... "Our analysis presents empirical evidence consistent with the theory that whenever the media report something threatening or politically uncomfortable for President Trump, his account increasingly tweets about unrelated topics representing his political strengths. This systematic diversion of attention away from a topic potentially damaging to him was shown to significantly reduce negative media coverage the next day."

The study focused on Trump's first two years in office, scrutinising the Robert Mueller investigation into potential collusion with Russia in the 2016 Presidential Election, as this was politically harmful to the President. The team analysed content relating to Russia and the Mueller investigation in two of the country's most politically neutral media outlets, New York Times (NYT) and ABC World News Tonight (ABC). The team also selected a set of keywords judged to play to Trump's preferred topics at the time, which were hypothesized to be likely to appear in diversionary tweets. The keywords related to "jobs", "China", and "immigration"; topics representing the president's supposed political strengths.

... In support of their hypotheses, the team found that every five additional ABC headlines relating to the Mueller investigation was associated with one more mention of a keyword in Trump's tweets. In turn, two additional mentions of one of the keywords in a Trump tweet was associated with roughly one less mention of the Mueller investigation in the following day's NYT.

Such a pattern did not emerge with placebo topics that presented no threat to the President, for instance Brexit or other non-political issues such as football or gardening.

The research also conducted an expanded analysis considering the President's entire Twitter vocabulary as a potential source of diversion, which confirmed the generality of the researchers' conclusions. Specifically, the analysis identified nearly 90 pairs of words that were more likely to appear in tweets when Russia-Mueller coverage increased, and that suppressed media coverage the next day. Those word pairs largely represented the President's political strengths, focusing again in particular on the economy.

... we hope these results serve as a helpful reminder to the media that they have the power to set the news agenda, focusing on the topics they deem most important, while perhaps not paying so much attention to the Twitter-sphere."

Stephan Lewandowsky, Michael Jetter, Ullrich Ecker, Using the president's tweets to understand political diversion in the age of social media, Nature Communications, 2020.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19644-6
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6175 on: November 11, 2020, 12:31:44 AM »
...

If Trump can manage to get either The U.S. Supreme Court and/or GOP control State Legislatures to delay the certification of a sufficient number of electors to prevent either Biden or Trump from having 270 certified electors by December 8, 2020 then the winner of the 2020 presidential race will be determined by the House of Representatives with each House state delegation casting one en bloc vote to determine the president, rather than a vote for each representative.  As the GOP controls more House state delegations, they would almost certainly elect Trump.


Title: "The 2020 Election - Provisions of the Constitution and U.S. Code"

https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/state-officials/presidential-election-brochure.pdf

Extract: "4. December 8, 2020
Date for Determination of Controversy as to Appointment of Electors:
- States must make final determinations of any controversies or contests as to the appointment of electors at least six days before the December 14 meetings of electors for their electoral votes to be presumptively valid when presented to Congress. Determinations by States’ lawful tribunals are conclusive, if decided under laws enacted prior to election day.

5. December 14, 2020
Meeting of the Electors and Sending Certificates of Vote to NARA (first Monday after second Wednesday in December):
- The electors meet in their respective States to select the President and Vice President of the United States. No Constitutional provision or Federal law requires electors to vote in accordance with the popular vote in their States. The Supreme Court decided (in 2020) that States can enact requirements on how electors vote. The Electoral College web site lists the States that we are aware of that have laws to bind electors to candidates."

If I were to be paranoid, I would be concerned that Trump is planning on getting the GOP controlled State Legislatures in at least: Georgia, Arizona, and Pennsylvania and maybe in: Wisconsin and/or Michigan to convene and to rule that the votes in key cities are tainted and are ruled to be thrown out by December 8th, and then in one joint case have the Supreme Court rule that these State Legislatures have the constitutional right to rule these votes tainted (& not be counted).  This would leave Biden just short of the 270 elector votes required to make him president elect on December 14, 2020.  This would mean that the GOP controlled (as defined by state delegations, not seats) House would vote to make Trump to be president elect and the GOP controlled Senate (even if Georgia votes for two Democrats on January 5, 2020) would make Pence the V.P. elect.

I am not saying that this is going to happen, unless Trump has exceptional influence over these State Legislatures and at least over five Supreme Court Justices.

I note that Barr's recent memo gives US prosecuting attorneys (in the DOJ) to open cases to investigate specific and 'substantial' allegations of election fraud without actual evidence & I imagine that Barr's DOJ will take specific allegations from the Trump campaign (and/or from Trump himself) as being substantial.  If so this could conceivable allow the GOP controlled state legislatures in Pennsylvania, Georgia and either Arizona or Michigan to pass bills forbidding their individual state election officials from certifying the vote counts in their states until the DOJ closes their open investigations of voter fraud.  Further, if such conceivable actions by the state GOP legislatures were to delay certification of their vote counts until after December 8, 2020; then Biden could not get 270 electoral votes on December 14, 2020.  If so this would push determination of the next POTUS into the US House of Representatives in January; with each state delegation getting one vote, and as the GOP controls more state delegations than do the Democrats (in the US House of Representatives) they would also certainly legally give the election to Trump and I note that the Pentagon has promised to support any legally elected POTUS. 

By this scenario, choosing the next POTUS could well be up to the possibly questionable integrity of a sufficient number of GOP members of the state legislatures in no more than three key battleground states. 

Title: "What Bill Barr’s memo and Mitch McConnell’s speech mean for the election"

https://www.vox.com/2020/11/10/21557852/bill-barr-election-memo-mitch-mcconnell-speech-fraud

Extract: "On Monday, Attorney General Bill Barr gave special authorization for US attorneys to investigate “substantial” allegations of election fraud, in a departure from the Justice Department’s typical practice of waiting until election results are certified to avoid influencing the results. After meeting with Barr, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said in a speech on the Senate floor that Trump was “100 percent within his rights to look into allegations of irregularities and weigh his legal options,” adding that “the courts are here to work through concerns.”

Later on Monday, news broke that Richard Pilger, the career Justice Department official who headed the Election Crimes Branch, resigned from his post in protest of Barr’s move, writing in an email to colleagues that the new guidance was “abrogating the forty-year-old Non-Interference Policy for ballot fraud investigations.” (Pilger has not resigned from the department entirely, though, just from his particular post.)
...
So Trump evidently hopes he can concoct a narrative of fraud that will win over Republicans — and that some combination of Republican state officials, legislators, and judges will block the certification of results in key states for Biden."
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6176 on: November 11, 2020, 02:52:17 AM »
Quote
I imagine that Barr's DOJ will take specific allegations from the Trump campaign (and/or from Trump himself) as being substantial.  If so this could conceivable allow the GOP controlled state legislatures in Pennsylvania, Georgia and either Arizona or Michigan to pass bills forbidding their individual state election officials from certifying the vote counts in their states until the DOJ closes their open investigations of voter fraud.
If so, what would be the timing of these moves? I presume they cannot wait until December 7?
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6177 on: November 11, 2020, 09:14:01 AM »
Quote
I imagine that Barr's DOJ will take specific allegations from the Trump campaign (and/or from Trump himself) as being substantial.  If so this could conceivable allow the GOP controlled state legislatures in Pennsylvania, Georgia and either Arizona or Michigan to pass bills forbidding their individual state election officials from certifying the vote counts in their states until the DOJ closes their open investigations of voter fraud.
If so, what would be the timing of these moves? I presume they cannot wait until December 7?

The GOP state legislators in at least three key states (say Georgia, Pennsylvania and Arizona) could submit bills after Thanksgiving weekend and vote on the bills during the first week in December; which would likely not provide the Democrats sufficient time to get the courts (including appeals up to the Supreme Court) to invalidate such hypothetical state legislature bills.

Also, the Trump campaign has already filed suits to: a) block certification of votes in Allegheny & Philadelphia counties in Pennsylvania and b) block certification of votes in all of Michigan.  This clearly indicates that Trumps goal is to try to stop Biden from getting 270 elector votes by December 8, 2020 by blocking the certification of votes where Biden leads in the vote count, by any means available.

Finally (for this post), the linked article indicates that Trump has already moved loyalists into key Pentagon positions; which would help Trump to guarantee that the military will support his legal election by the US House of Representatives if the Electoral College does not give Biden 270 votes by December 14, 2020.

Title: "Trump loyalists elevated to powerful roles at the Pentagon after firing of Defense Secretary Esper"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/10/trump-loyalists-promoted-to-powerful-pentagon-roles-after-esper-firing.html

Extract: "
•   The Pentagon elevated Trump loyalists to powerful positions a day after the sudden termination of Secretary of Defense Mark Esper.
•   The moves also followed the resignations of multiple senior officials in the Defense Department.
•   In a lengthy statement released Tuesday afternoon, the Pentagon said that Anthony Tata, Ezra Cohen-Watnick and Kash Patel had been promoted to key roles."

Of course it is probably more likely that all of the Trump campaign's post-election maneuvers are designed to suck more GOP donations into his election legal fund to help payoff his election debts; and that putting Trump loyalists into the Pentagon is just a maneuver to award military contracts to Trump's buddies before Trump leaves office.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6178 on: November 11, 2020, 09:24:00 AM »
Yeah, it feels, based on what I read here in Europe, that Trump and his government are planning a coup d'etat;

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6179 on: November 11, 2020, 09:50:28 AM »
This thread is going to give me an Ulcer. I know he will try but I hope he does not succeed.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6180 on: November 11, 2020, 11:31:27 AM »
Yeah, it feels, based on what I read here in Europe, that Trump and his government are planning a coup d'etat;

  or is that a coup de twat ? b.c.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6181 on: November 11, 2020, 12:25:57 PM »
"Are we witnessing and experiencing a not too quiet coup by Trump and his GOP quislings? Sure seems like it" --John Dean

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/john-dean-blasts-gop-quislings-stand-with-trump-all-this-post-election-behavior-feels-very-very-wrong/
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6182 on: November 11, 2020, 03:23:58 PM »
Yeah, it feels, based on what I read here in Europe, that Trump and his government are planning a coup d'etat;

But this is not Europe, and thus type of action is extremely unlikely to occur here.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6183 on: November 11, 2020, 04:03:01 PM »
From the linked website I extracted the current deadline for ballot certification for five key battleground states.  If by some combination of recounts, lawsuits or legislative actions Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania do not certify their complete ballot counts by the dates, I will be apprehensive about what the Trump-leaning GOP will cook-up over the Thanksgiving holiday:

Title: "Election results certification dates, 2020"

https://ballotpedia.org/Election_results_certification_dates,_2020

Dates for state ballots to be certified:
Arizona           11/30/2020
Georgia           11/20/2020
Michigan           11/23/2020
Pennsylvania   11/23/2020
Wisconsin           12/01/2020
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6184 on: November 11, 2020, 04:13:11 PM »
Trump needs 3 of those 5 states to "choose" new electors. But only 2 have Republican governors. Dem governors will veto any such legislation. Do any of them have veto-proof supermajorities in the legislature?


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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6185 on: November 11, 2020, 04:51:06 PM »
Trump needs 3 of those 5 states to "choose" new electors. But only 2 have Republican governors. Dem governors will veto any such legislation. Do any of them have veto-proof supermajorities in the legislature?


As both Georgia and Arizona have GOP Governors, the real question is what about the Pennsylvania state General Assembly (see the first linked article), for which the attached image shows that the GOP does not have a supermajority of votes in the Pennsylvania General Assembly.

Title: "Pennsylvania General Assembly"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_General_Assembly#:~:text=The%20General%20Assembly%20has%20253,a%20term%20of%20four%20years.

This is probably why the GOP representatives in the Pennsylvania state legislature have already stated that they will initiate a state legislative lead audit of the ballots, and they are insisting that the ballots not be certified until they are finished with their audit:

Title: "Pennsylvania Republicans plan 'extraordinary measures' to delay election results"

https://news.yahoo.com/pennsylvania-gop-election-audit-233821122.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABzvkzLVs-fduGi0d1ads-uQZInAxkTdLHEhFUgV9_cano6xMhH9ln571BaOaMjhR5iCDMtGJ3vtXfXgUzohxrfzjqZGqfEpTTsK_0sOdsgyQlwHs9bscHrzdbuz-H3wwurHTPa99VjzEJho_ctfEx9NVfQrbxK_kRXec52XIcie

Extract: "Republicans in the Pennsylvania state legislature on Tuesday said they would take “extraordinary measures” to find out whether the election in their state was fair, despite having no evidence of any wrongdoing.

State Rep. Dawn Keefer, a Republican from York County, announced that Republicans in the state legislature would move to conduct an audit of the election, and that the state should not certify the election results, or select electors to the Electoral College, until it is completed."
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6186 on: November 11, 2020, 06:30:51 PM »
If nothing else, Georgia's GOP Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger's decision to conduct its recount by hand, will delay any possible certification of that state's votes until November 20, 2020, and who knows what will happen after that:

Title: "Georgia will recount presidential election ballots by hand as Biden’s lead over Trump grows"

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/presidential-election-georgia-announces-a-recount-as-biden-leads.html

Extract: "
•   Georgia will conduct a statewide recount of ballots cast in the election between President Trump and President-elect Joe Biden, Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said.
•   Raffensperger, a Republican, said that the state will work with county officials to complete the recount in time to meet its Nov. 20 deadline for certifying statewide election results.

“It’ll take every bit of the time we have left, for sure,” he said."
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6187 on: November 11, 2020, 06:36:18 PM »
It definitely feels like a slow motion coup d'etat. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 11:34:53 PM by cognitivebias2 »

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6188 on: November 11, 2020, 06:39:41 PM »
I definitely feels like a slow motion coup d'etat.

Sorry, but I do not subscribe to any of these conspiracy theories.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6189 on: November 11, 2020, 07:29:33 PM »
Yeah, it feels, based on what I read here in Europe, that Trump and his government are planning a coup d'etat;

His suddenly stacking DoD with his supporters does merit real concern.  However, the leading hypothesis here is that he's using his drummed-up controversy to milk more money from his supporters.  The longer he drags this out, the more money he makes.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6190 on: November 11, 2020, 07:35:15 PM »
I definitely feels like a slow motion coup d'etat.

Sorry, but I do not subscribe to any of these conspiracy theories.

Same, there is no evidence there is any coup taking place.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6191 on: November 11, 2020, 07:37:50 PM »
Sooo, if you were elected out of office in a large, militarily powerful country, and you decided not to give up power (as Trump has clearly been signaling is his intention), what exactly would you do to prepare for a coup?
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6192 on: November 11, 2020, 10:57:41 PM »
Quote
“What Donald Trump is attempting to do has a name: coup d’état,” said Timothy Snyder, a history professor at Yale University specializing in authoritarianism, on Twitter. “Poorly organized though it might seem, it is not bound to fail. It must be made to fail.

“Coups are defeated quickly or not at all. While they take place we are meant to look away, as many of us are doing. When they are complete we are powerless.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/nov/11/us-election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-kamala-harris-transition-supreme-court-obamacare-coronavirus-covid-live-updates#block-5fac54b78f08cd9e0b7f7887
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6193 on: November 11, 2020, 11:02:52 PM »
I definitely feels like a slow motion coup d'etat.
Sorry, but I do not subscribe to any of these conspiracy theories.
Same, there is no evidence there is any coup taking place.
What Trump and various prominent Republicans are doing, as well as just saying, is, I believe, unprecedented in the history of the post-election period in the US of A since at least the Civil War.

It may not be a coup but all the elements are there. A worrisome quote..

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/11/donald-trump-presidency-coup-power-election-joe-biden
Quote
“What Donald Trump is attempting to do has a name: coup d’état,” said Timothy Snyder, a history professor at Yale University specializing in authoritarianism, on Twitter. “Poorly organized though it might seem, it is not bound to fail. It must be made to fail.

“Coups are defeated quickly or not at all. While they take place we are meant to look away, as many of us are doing. When they are complete we are powerless.”

Biden and the democrat establishment seem far too sanguine to me. If nothing else it will make governing the USA more difficult than it already is.
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gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6194 on: November 11, 2020, 11:21:17 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/11/trump-is-refusing-to-concede-hes-doing-a-coup
Trump is refusing to concede, he's doing a coup!
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The most remarkable thing is that this coup attempt is so bumbling! Considering the USA has been practising for years it’s about time somebody tried it at home
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6195 on: November 12, 2020, 02:19:44 AM »
Trump’s Silent Public Outing Belies White House In Tumult
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-emerge-on-veterans-day-290032c8f59767c1e15bca81b79a46ec

WASHINGTON (AP) — Donald Trump spent 10 minutes in public Wednesday honoring America’s war veterans — a veneer of normalcy for a White House that’s frozen by a defeated president mulling his options, mostly forgoing the mechanics of governing and blocking his inevitable successor.

Trump’s appearance at the annual Veterans Day commemoration at Arlington National Cemetery was his first public outing for official business in more than a week. He’s spent the past few days in private tweeting angry, unsupported claims of voter fraud.

... Few senior staffers have been around the president in recent days, with many either in quarantine after testing positive for COVID-19 or in insolation after a confirmed exposure or simply not wanting to be near the Oval Office, according to White House staffers and campaign officials. Staff working from the White House thinned out after chief of staff Mark Meadows confirmed last week that he had tested positive for the virus.

Though he has been in the Oval Office late two nights this week, the president has done little in the way of governing and has instead been working the phones.

He has called friendly governors — in red states like Arizona, Texas and Florida — and influential confidants in the conservative media, like Sean Hannity. But he has not been as responsive to Republican lawmakers as before the election. Always an obsessive cable news viewer, he has been watching even more TV than usual in recent weeks, often from his private dining room just off the Oval Office.


Quote
... While he ponders his options, his involvement in the day-to-day governing of the nation has nearly stopped:

According to his schedule, he has not attended an intelligence briefing in weeks, and the White House has done little of late to manage the pandemic that has surged to record highs in many states.



[... had time for golf, though]

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6196 on: November 12, 2020, 07:35:39 AM »
A few days ago enjeti on rising brought up a horrible scenario:

Trump announces 2024 candidacy on the day (putatively December 14th) that the electors choose Biden.

Then we have 4 years of a repeat presidential campaign, coast to coast rallies, attacks on the administration ... you get the picture. And he has no responsibility anymore, he aint president. And the iffy republicans in elections will suck his dick for him to do rallies in their constituency.

And the media, as before will not take the cameras off Trump. Or worse, he will spin up his own  media channel since he dont like fox no more.

Might have to swear off all media forawhile, go full Amish.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6197 on: November 12, 2020, 08:10:58 AM »
Speculation is speculation. Facts are facts. The US has a president that is happy to sacrifice 250,000 lives and does not care as long as he survives.

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6198 on: November 12, 2020, 11:36:43 AM »
.. should be well on the way to 500k by the end of his shambolic reign . What an effing B.
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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6199 on: November 12, 2020, 01:18:44 PM »
If nothing else, the life expectancy for a 74 year old American man is less than twelve years:
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
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