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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6350 on: January 14, 2021, 12:36:40 PM »
Five people died in the Capitol riot last week.
At least nineteen people died in George Floyd protests:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_controversies_during_the_George_Floyd_protests

If the USA falls into a Second Civil War, it will be because people on both sides say "Your violence is Evil, my violence is Good."
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

BeeKnees

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6351 on: January 14, 2021, 01:34:06 PM »
Disgruntled Employee Changed The State Department’s Website To Say That Trump’s Term Ends Today

This story doesnt add up for multiple reasons.

The page didnt exist before the day it was supposed to have been changed.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/

There was no links to the page from the website, either through a menu or hyperlink.

The page was updated multiple times with the only change being the time of the change.

If you try the pages now they redirect to the home page
http://state.gov/biographies/donald-j-trump/


My suspicion is that an employee was creating new pages in advance of Biden taking over and accidentally exposed it so it was found by a google search.

BeeKnees

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6352 on: January 14, 2021, 02:56:31 PM »
If it's shown that members in capital hill helped protestors to case the joint the day before then this could be explosive.

https://sherrill.house.gov/sites/sherrill.house.gov/files/wysiwyg_uploaded/2020.01.13_Sherrill%20Letter%20to%20USCP%20and%20SAA.pdf
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 03:06:37 PM by BeeKnees »

Sebastian Jones

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6353 on: January 14, 2021, 06:35:25 PM »
Dear Tom,
You wrote:
'be cause & gerontocrat:
I notice that the most cogent arguments you can make against my linked article are, basically, to foam at the mouth
.'
While it is true that you have engendered a certain amount of gnashing of teeth and foaming at mouths, the reasons do not include acknowledgement and frustration by the devastating strength of your argument.
Indeed, quite the opposite.
I draw to your attention the concept of Logical Fallacies, linked here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
In the interests of saving time, I direct you to the fallacy of 'False Equivalence:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

Equating BLM protests against extra judicial killings of an identified group with a mass insurrection based on anger against a legal election is an example of a false equivalency.

It is an easy trap to fall into, one that you are regularly ensnared by, but the moderators of this forum have wisely requested we do not take it up with you.

Regards,
Sebastian

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6354 on: January 14, 2021, 07:37:06 PM »
Sebastian:
Quote
"The Deepwater Horizon oil spill is no more harmful than when your neighbor drips some oil on the ground when changing his car's oil."
The comparison is between things differing by many orders of magnitude: Deepwater Horizon spilled 210 million US gal (790 million L) of oil; one's neighbor might spill perhaps 1 US pt (0.47 L).
"They're both living animals that metabolize chemical energy. Therefore there's little difference between having a pet cat and a pet snail."
The "equivalence" is in factors that are not relevant to the animals' suitability as pets.
From your citation.
The magnitude is clearly the same...19 deaths vs 5. The magnitude actually was larger in the George Floyd protests.
As for the second example, the Left says they are fighting for the Human Rights of Minorities. The Right says they are fighting for the God-Given rights our Founding Fathers risked their lives for, and millions of soldiers have died for.
Both sides, as I said, are saying "My violence Good, your violence bad."
I renounce all violence.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

kassy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6355 on: January 14, 2021, 10:21:52 PM »
But no one in the GF protests stormed the capitol.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

oren

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6356 on: January 14, 2021, 11:05:40 PM »
A classic false equivalence.

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6357 on: January 15, 2021, 12:07:48 AM »
US police three times as likely to use force against leftwing protesters, data finds

Law enforcement responses to more than 13,000 protests show a clear disparity in responses, new statistics show

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/13/us-police-use-of-force-protests-black-lives-matter-far-right
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Freegrass

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6358 on: January 15, 2021, 02:20:45 AM »
Better late than never...
MUST SEE!

And so we pray...

When factual science is in conflict with our beliefs, we cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything starts making sense again...

be cause

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6359 on: January 15, 2021, 12:09:53 PM »
What I really appreciate @ Arnie is how he chose to spend the millions gifted to him by DT. in the millionaires tax bonanza . He saw the campaign for better access to voting in the southern states even as polling stations and drop-boxes were being removed by his fellow republicans . He spent $10 million in states like Georgia (where a dear friend of mine was among the campaigners . Sadly she died before she could witness the result of her efforts . ). It is reckoned his actions increased Democratic voter participation by as many as 30 ,000 votes in Georgia alone . Thank you , Arnie . b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6360 on: January 15, 2021, 11:33:42 PM »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

Freegrass

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6361 on: January 20, 2021, 04:58:02 PM »
GOODBYE YOU FASCIST PIG!!!
What will I watch now on TV after the end of the best soap in history ? 😭
And so we pray...

When factual science is in conflict with our beliefs, we cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything starts making sense again...

ritter

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6362 on: January 20, 2021, 06:28:42 PM »
The end of an error. Finally.

gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6363 on: January 20, 2021, 11:07:31 PM »
Wonder how much America’s southern border wall grew under President Trump? The answer is 47 miles, raising the total walled distance along the U.S.-Mexico border from 654 miles when Trump took office to now 701 miles. (The entire border is 1,954 miles long.)
Sometimes the bad can be made good

Pink seesaws across US-Mexico border named Design of the Year 2020


American and Mexican families enjoying the Teeter Totter Wall, which crosses the Mexican border with US
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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karl dubhe2

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6364 on: January 20, 2021, 11:28:03 PM »
Thank the non-existent god it's over.

Except for the lawsuits and the criminal cases.   :D :D :D

etienne

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6365 on: January 22, 2021, 07:08:51 PM »

vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6366 on: January 23, 2021, 01:57:59 AM »
... somebody's holding a grudge ...

Iranian Supreme Leader’s Tweet Suggests A Revenge Drone Assassination Of A Golfing Trump
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/38872/iranian-supreme-leaders-tweet-suggests-drone-assassination-of-a-golfing-trump

An image highly suggestive of a drone targeting former U.S. President Donald Trump on a golf course in a “vengeance” strike in retaliation for the death of Iranian General Qassem Soleimani led Twitter to ban an account for Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei today. The U.S. military killed Soleimani in a drone strike in Iraq in January 2020, which had already prompted public threats from Iranian officials, including against Trump specifically.

... The apparent anti-Trump image also includes text, in Farsi, that says “Vengeance: Soleimani’s murderer and he who ordered it will have to pay,” with the first word written in red.

?quality=60

... “Do not presume that someone, as the president of America, who appeared as a murderer or ordered a murder, may be immune from justice being carried out. Never,” Ebrahim Raisi, Chief Justice of Iran, said during a more recent event on New Year’s Day. “Those who had a role in this assassination and crime will not be safe on Earth.”

“It’s even possible that there are people inside your home [the United States] that will respond to your crime,” Esmail Ghaani, who became head of the Quds Force after Soleimani’s death, had said at the same gathering.

---------------------------------------

... will it be a birdie or a bogey? Either way, he'll have a couple new sand traps on the back nine ...
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6367 on: January 23, 2021, 04:19:35 AM »
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

zenith

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6368 on: January 25, 2021, 02:23:54 PM »
Trump was the best US president ever...for Israel.

Trump’s Legacy in Israel
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/donald-trumps-legacy-in-israel

"Trump’s alignment with Netanyahu has been so total that, ahead of the U.S. election, sixty-three per cent of Israelis supported Trump, and only seventeen per cent supported Joe Biden, according to a November poll by the Israel Democracy Institute. If Israel were a U.S. state, it would be the “reddest state in the Union,” a column in the left-leaning newspaper Haaretz noted."
Where is reality? Can you show it to me? - Heinz von Foerster

zenith

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6369 on: January 25, 2021, 02:28:40 PM »
He bought King Cyrus.

Sheldon Adelson Is Ready to Buy the Presidency
He just hasn’t decided which Republican candidate to back. Care to make a pitch?
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2015/09/sheldon-adelson-is-ready-to-buy-the-presidency.html
Where is reality? Can you show it to me? - Heinz von Foerster

vox_mundi

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6370 on: January 25, 2021, 02:45:02 PM »
^ He's dead.
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.” ― Leonardo da Vinci

Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

zenith

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6371 on: January 25, 2021, 02:47:55 PM »
Correct, he wasn't when he was Trump's financial backer. His wife is still alive.
Where is reality? Can you show it to me? - Heinz von Foerster

wili

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6372 on: January 29, 2021, 10:21:23 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book

‘The perfect target’:

Russia cultivated Trump as asset for 40 years – ex-KGB spy

"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6373 on: January 30, 2021, 01:08:07 PM »
By the looks of it Trump is likely to remain President of the Republican Party.
The enemies of democracy within that party are in the ascendant.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/republicans-trump-matt-gaetz-wyoming-liz-cheney-impeachment
Republicans do battle: Trump ally whips up Wyoming crowd against Liz Cheney

Matt Gaetz flies to Cheney’s home state to hold rally and urge voters to oust her in primary after she backed impeachment

Quote
In a sign of the ferocity of the conflict in the Republican party, the Florida representative and Trump ultra-loyalist Matt Gaetz flew into Cheyenne, Wyoming, on Thursday to help whip up a crowd against Liz Cheney, the No 3 House Republican and member of GOP royalty who voted to impeach the former president for inciting the Capitol riot.

In the fight for control of the Republican party from now until the 2022 midterms, Trump and his backers currently seem to be winning, despite losing the White House. At the very least, Cheney can expect a stern primary challenge.

As Gaetz spoke, thousands of miles away in Florida the House minority leader, Kevin McCarthy, was meeting the exiled ex-president at his Mar-a-Lago resort. Save America, a political action committee formed by Trump, said the two men had a “very good and cordial” conversation on “many topics, No1 of which was taking back the House in 2022”.

McCarthy said a “united conservative movement will strengthen the bonds of our citizens and uphold the freedoms our country was founded on”. But neither his country or his party is united and he is not taking strong action against extremist Republicans who Democrats say are dangerously deepening national divisions, not least around the pro-Trump Capitol attack on 6 January.

Meanwhile, Marjorie Taylor Greene, a QAnon-supporter elected unopposed in Georgia last year, has been the subject of multiple reports about her extremist views.

Amid uproar over a lack of action against a woman who has called for the execution of leading Democrats, subscribed to conspiracy theories about child murder and said school shootings are staged, the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, asked: “Assigning her to the education committee when she has mocked the killing of little children at Sandy Hook, when she mocked the killing of teenagers at Marjory Stoneman Douglas – what could they be thinking?”

“Or is thinking too generous a word for what they might be doing? It’s absolutely appalling, and I think the focus has to be on the Republican leadership of this House of Representatives for the disregard they have for the death of those children.”

Pelosi, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are among figures Greene has suggested should be killed. Saying “the enemy is within”, Pelosi also accused Republicans of making fellow representatives “concerned about members in the House of Representatives being a danger to them … we have members of Congress who want to bring guns on the floor and have threatened violence on other members of Congress.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/cori-bush-office-safety-marjorie-taylor-greene
Cori Bush says she's moving office away from GOP extremist over safety concerns

Democratic congresswoman said Marjorie Taylor Greene and her staff refused to wear masks and berated her
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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The Walrus

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6374 on: January 30, 2021, 05:07:27 PM »
By the looks of it Trump is likely to remain President of the Republican Party.
The enemies of democracy within that party are in the ascendant.


The GOP has to deal with the aftermath of the election.  Two competing faction (pro- and anti- Trump) are dividing the party.  Eventually, Trump will go away.  The question is whether it will be sooner (before the 2022 midterms) or later (after the 2024 election).

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/16/957593493/the-republican-party-after-trump

gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6375 on: January 31, 2021, 12:05:59 AM »
By the looks of it Trump is likely to remain President of the Republican Party.
The enemies of democracy within that party are in the ascendant.


The GOP has to deal with the aftermath of the election.  Two competing faction (pro- and anti- Trump) are dividing the party.  Eventually, Trump will go away.  The question is whether it will be sooner (before the 2022 midterms) or later (after the 2024 election).

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/16/957593493/the-republican-party-after-trump
Eventually, Trump will go away. Others disagree

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/30/marjorie-taylor-greene-republican-party
The Republican party will not disavow Marjorie Taylor Greene – she is the party

The conspiracy theory mouthpiece in Congress from Georgia constituency has ripped off the GOP’s mask of respectability


« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 03:59:11 PM by gerontocrat »
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

interstitial

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6376 on: January 31, 2021, 06:10:17 AM »
It really surprises me that Trumps support has not evaporated faster than this. Especially after he publicly turned on his "special people" who rioted in support of him. On the other hand I guess it has only been ten days since he left office. In some ways it feels like it has been years since the election.




The Walrus

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6377 on: January 31, 2021, 01:34:04 PM »
It really surprises me that Trumps support has not evaporated faster than this. Especially after he publicly turned on his "special people" who rioted in support of him. On the other hand I guess it has only been ten days since he left office. In some ways it feels like it has been years since the election.

It will take time.  Remember, his supporters have backed him for the past five years.  That kind of support does not evaporate overnight.  Those that supported him marginally are gone, but what fraction of the electorate were they?

gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6378 on: January 31, 2021, 07:23:12 PM »
It gets worse. Sanity recedes - even further. The bottom-up surge looks like consuming a good number of "moderate" Republicans. To survive, many will go along with the tide.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/30/republicans-radical-extreme-state-parties
'It's endemic': state-level Republican groups lead party's drift to extremism

Despite national failures at the ballot box, radicalised state parties are fighting for Trump’s election lies and defending QAnon followers
Quote
In Arizona and Oregon, they rebuked opponents of Donald Trump’s assault on democracy. In Hawaii, they defended followers of the QAnon conspiracy movement. And in Texas, they adopted a slogan with dark historical connotations: “We are the storm.”

To understand the future of the Republican party, start with the army of increasingly radicalised foot soldiers who shape it at state level. Far from responding to the loss of the White House to Joe Biden by tacking to the political centre, local parties appear to be racing to the extreme right by giving safe harbour to white nationalism, QAnon – an antisemitic theory involving Satan-worshipping cannibals and a child sex trafficking ring – and “the big lie” that the presidential election was stolen by Democrats.

“The central story of American politics right now is that one of the two parties is ‘radicalizing against democracy’ in front of our eyes,” tweeted Chris Hayes, an author and host on the MSNBC network. “There are tons of other stories as well, but they all come after that, I think.”

The Republican party has been drifting towards rightwing populism for years, with notable examples including the Tea Party movement, the nomination of Sarah Palin for vice-president and the total capitulation to Trump. Moderate Republicans hoped that Trump’s failures at the ballot box – he was the first president since 1932 to lose re-election, the House and the Senate – might generate an “autopsy” similar to that which followed Mitt Romney’s defeat eight years ago and a reset aimed at broadening its appeal.

Tim Miller, former political director of Republican Voters Against Trump, said: “The evidence is overwhelming that local parties across the country, in blue states and red states, are radicalized and support extremely far outside the mainstream positions like, for example, ending our democratic experiment to install Donald Trump as president over the will of the people. They believe in insane Covid denialism and QAnon and all these other conspiracies. It’s endemic, not just a couple of state parties. It’s the vast majority of state parties throughout the country.”

In the internal battle between conservatives and extremists, the extremists appear to be winning. The state party in Oregon recently condemned Liz Cheney and nine other House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump over the Capitol insurrection. It cited a groundless conspiracy theory that the riot was a “false flag” operation staged to discredit the president’s supporters.

In Hawaii, the party’s official Twitter account claimed that QAnon followers were merely displaying misguided patriotism and “largely motivated by a sincere and deep love for America”. QAnon has been identified by the FBI as a domestic terrorism threat. (Following a backlash, the state party’s vice-chairman, Edwin Boyette, resigned and the tweets were deleted.)

In Minnesota, Jennifer Carnahan, the state party chairwoman, suggested that Mike Lindell, the chief executive of MyPillow and a Trump ally and election denier, should run for governor. In Michigan, Meshawn Maddock, who joined a pro-Trump rally near the US Capitol a day before the riots, is set to become party co-chair.

In Kentucky, Republicans in Nelson county voted to censure Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leader, over his statements on the Senate floor criticising Trump for his role in the Capitol violence. In Pennsylvania, Republican leaders “are all-in for Trump more than ever”, the New York Times reported, noting that they “have made loyalty to the defeated ex-president the sole organizing principle of the party”.

Then there is Arizona, where last weekend Republicans voted to censure Governor Doug Ducey, who certified Trump’s defeat in the state, as well as the Trump critics Jeff Flake, a former senator, and Cindy McCain, the widow of Senator John McCain. The state party also re-elected its chair, Kelli Ward, a self-described “Trump Republican” who is among the most unabashed promoters of his election lies.

Texas is another example with huge electoral implications. The party chairman is now Allen West, a former Florida congressman who in 2014 described Barack Obama as “an Islamist” who is “purposefully enabling the Islamist cause”. When the supreme court threw out Trump’s challenge to the election, West hinted at secession, arguing that “law-abiding states should bond together and form a union of states that will abide by the constitution”.

Under West, the state party posted a tweet urging people to follow it on Gab, a social media app known to be used by white supremacists, and adopted the provocative slogan: “We are the storm”.

Steve Schmidt, a founder of the Lincoln Project, an anti-Trump group, noted that the term echoes both the Sturmmann (storm troopers) and der Stürmer (the Stormer) newspaper of Nazi Germany. “So the idea of being the storm is deeply embedded in the mythology of the extremist Nazi fascistic ideologies of both past and present,” he said.

More recently “the storm” is also a phrase used by devotees of QAnon predicting an apocalyptic showdown between Trump and his foes. Schmidt added: “In every state party there are QAnon adherents. Some state parties are being consumed by them. You can certainly say four – Texas, Oregon, Arizona and big parts of California – at a minimum and it’s likely to be more.

“There will be more candidates who subscribe to the theories of the movement in 2022 and beyond. It will continue to metastasise to some degree. Shutting off the Twitter account, while a good thing, is just another game of Whac-a-Mole that puts it deeper underground where more extreme and virulent strains emerge in various places. The river flows to the ocean.”

Miller, a writer-at-large at the Bulwark website, said: “I didn’t ever think that there was any momentum to convict him because I looked at what the local Republicans were saying. I remember saying to folks in the days after January 6, ‘Compare the statements that are coming out from Republican state parties to what the senators are saying’ – and there was a big disconnect.

“The state parties were in defence of Trump. They were advancing conspiracy theories about how it was really Antifa in disguise. They were the canary in the coalmine for me as far as the fact that these senators were not going to to convict Trump. Everybody represents their own constituency. What’s notable is that the state parties are closest to the constituents so they know what the constituents want. What the constituents want is fealty to Trump.”

Kelli Ward, center, was re-elected as chair of the Arizona Republican party and is among the most unabashed promoters of Trump’s election lies. Photograph: Jonathan J Cooper/AP
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6379 on: February 07, 2021, 09:24:08 PM »
Seventy-odd million people voted for Trump. Seventy-odd million people lived in Japan during World War Two.
Almost three million of them died as a result of the War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_deaths_by_country
It took that, with two nukes, to get them to change their politics and even then a coup attempt almost stopped them from surrendering.
What will it take to convince the Trumpistas?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

LeftyLarry

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6380 on: February 08, 2021, 01:56:33 AM »
Seventy-odd million people voted for Trump. Seventy-odd million people lived in Japan during World War Two.
Almost three million of them died as a result of the War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_deaths_by_country
It took that, with two nukes, to get them to change their politics and even then a coup attempt almost stopped them from surrendering.
What will it take to convince the Trumpistas?

To compare the two is ridiculous , why don’t you ask the Cubans or Venezuelans what it would take to move them away from communism after watching it fail everywhere and after watching, Stalin, Mao and other Communist despots murder 50,000,000 people.
I didn’t vote for Trump but some of my friends and relatives did and I can assure you they are very nice, caring  charitable people who have raised very nice productive children.
Disagreeing with you doesn’t make people bad and frankly, not even necessarily wrong.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2021, 06:44:30 AM by LeftyLarry »

sidd

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6381 on: February 08, 2021, 08:55:05 AM »
Re:  "What will it take"

Send out the checks, pronto.
 
I was talking to a driver today, who, i happen to know voted for trump, along with all his family, and pretty much his whole community. He said he'll give biden a chance if the checks show up. His words paraphrased:

"We sent trump in there to break things, he did, but he couldnt get anything done. My son is still fighting a foreign war, his girlfriend is pregnant back in rural nowhere, and Biden got in promising a 2k check, I want her to get it before she has to move in with me, I already got my other son, his wife and my granddaughter living with me after their jobs went away and they got kicked out. Send out the damn checks."

The guy is sixty-seven. Been driving all his life. Can't afford to quit, especially not when he is supporting so many.

sidd



be cause

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6382 on: February 08, 2021, 11:28:32 AM »
Hi , Leftylarry .. it may surprise you to know Tom himself is one of the Trumpistas in need of convincing ... b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

WildFit

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6383 on: February 08, 2021, 04:38:37 PM »
Hi , Leftylarry .. it may surprise you to know Tom himself is one of the Trumpistas in need of convincing ... b.c.


Sure you are aware that trumpists are "immune" against all antidotes  ;) ;) ;)

Which, BTW is part of the problem, they lure in new trumpists but hardly will one of them give up his stance that lead to the 70+ millions of voters.


be cause

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6384 on: February 08, 2021, 07:34:41 PM »
Trump's opening bid for 2024 .. $10k to each and every voter once he secures his 2nd term .. ? Why not ? just because ...
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6385 on: February 08, 2021, 10:23:49 PM »
Why not? Do we have the money?
Of course that doesn't mean anything.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6386 on: February 09, 2021, 07:05:08 PM »
What good is money if he gets everyone killed acting on his insanity?

The Walrus

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6387 on: February 14, 2021, 02:28:17 PM »
With yesterday’s acquittal, I think we can officially close this chapter in America and this thread in asif.

kassy

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6388 on: February 15, 2021, 05:13:20 PM »
There will be more fall out (at least one case of election meddling?).
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6389 on: February 22, 2021, 08:19:23 PM »
Supreme court rejects Trump bid to block tax records from prosecutor

Shades of Al Capone ?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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LeftyLarry

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6390 on: February 22, 2021, 10:54:50 PM »
Supreme court rejects Trump bid to block tax records from prosecutor

Shades of Al Capone ?

As a businessman who owns a lot of Real Estate, allow me to suggest that nobody in their right mind wants people who hate you to go through your very sophisticated tax returns with a fine tooth comb.

Overall, when you own as many properties and are in as many deals as Trump is , you are always put in a situation where you are pushing the envelope based on what your high paid accountants and tax lawyers tell you what you can and cannot do.

Much of this stuff is grey area stuff and it often depends on who is your auditor at the IRS and whether he or she agrees that what you did was reasonable.
If they don’t agree, which can happen and you can’t convince them, there is often a negotiation and a fair settlement, nobody is going to jail for interpreting the tax laws differently or using them to the Nth degree.
I can pretty much guarantee that Trump didn’t NOT report income or Decorated his house and wrote it off against income, smart rich guys don’t do that and he was there when Leona Helmsley went to jail for doing exactly that.

Trump knows the Leftists will try to kill him on every grey area issue and could take large amounts of money from him probably unfairly that they wouldn’t from anyone else due to their disgusting hatred. the Left weaponized the IRS under Obama , they have no sense of decency or fair play, just their agenda which supersedes all else because after all they are in the right and everyone else is wrong.

if I were Trump I wouldn’t want enemies going through my very complicated tax returns that 5-7 years later are hard to explain and half the time you don’t even remember why this was written off and that wasn’t because you are in 100 different deals and don’t remember the circumstances .

We are talking about things like Cost Segregation, accelerated depreciation , fees and licensing structures, etc. etc. that are always set up to mitigate upfront  tax expenses , which without them, very little would ever get done.

be cause

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6391 on: February 22, 2021, 11:10:22 PM »
It sure was silly of Trump to load the supreme court with 'Leftists' . b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

greylib

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6392 on: February 22, 2021, 11:11:09 PM »
So why did he say, before he was elected and for years afterwards, that he'd be fine with showing his tax returns "as soon as the audit has finished". Was he lying, do you think?  ;)
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LeftyLarry

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6393 on: February 22, 2021, 11:27:34 PM »
It sure was silly of Trump to load the supreme court with 'Leftists' . b.c.
Hey you can tell I’m not a leftist but I am very satisfied that Trump’s Judges will do a  very good job on the SCOTUS.

One thing we know for sure, some of these judges who are considered Conservative will cross lines and vote their conscience on issues that may make conservatives unhappy, however, unless it’s a fate compli and a case that nobody in their right mind could possibly vote differently in, no Leftist judge will ever cross over and make their Leftist friends unhappy.Getting Invited to those parties in the Hamptons and Malibu is much more important than the constitution.

There are many cases of Conservative judges who turned out to be more middle of the road bordering on Liberal but few if any cases where a Leftist judge voted a bit conservative.
That’s really the difference, conservatives look at every case and decide Leftists support the agenda.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 12:26:09 AM by LeftyLarry »

Rodius

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6394 on: February 23, 2021, 05:38:33 AM »
Trump is a criminal, hangs out with them, he is just an unpleasant human being.

Interpretations matter, as does consistency.... and hiding information using interpretations is just bullshit.

Also, Trump is a shit businessman.

https://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6395 on: February 23, 2021, 06:56:52 AM »
Supreme court rejects Trump bid to block tax records from prosecutor

Shades of Al Capone ?

As a businessman who owns a lot of Real Estate, .......

AHHAHAHahahaha

/ignore

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6396 on: February 23, 2021, 02:06:00 PM »
Supreme court rejects Trump bid to block tax records from prosecutor

Shades of Al Capone ?

As a businessman who owns a lot of Real Estate, allow me to suggest that nobody in their right mind wants people who hate you to go through your very sophisticated tax returns with a fine tooth comb.

Overall, when you own as many properties and are in as many deals as Trump is , you are always put in a situation where you are pushing the envelope based on what your high paid accountants and tax lawyers tell you what you can and cannot do.

Much of this stuff is grey area stuff and it often depends on who is your auditor at the IRS and whether he or she agrees that what you did was reasonable.
If they don’t agree, which can happen and you can’t convince them, there is often a negotiation and a fair settlement, nobody is going to jail for interpreting the tax laws differently or using them to the Nth degree.
I can pretty much guarantee that Trump didn’t NOT report income or Decorated his house and wrote it off against income, smart rich guys don’t do that and he was there when Leona Helmsley went to jail for doing exactly that.

Trump knows the Leftists will try to kill him on every grey area issue and could take large amounts of money from him probably unfairly that they wouldn’t from anyone else due to their disgusting hatred. the Left weaponized the IRS under Obama , they have no sense of decency or fair play, just their agenda which supersedes all else because after all they are in the right and everyone else is wrong.

if I were Trump I wouldn’t want enemies going through my very complicated tax returns that 5-7 years later are hard to explain and half the time you don’t even remember why this was written off and that wasn’t because you are in 100 different deals and don’t remember the circumstances .

We are talking about things like Cost Segregation, accelerated depreciation , fees and licensing structures, etc. etc. that are always set up to mitigate upfront  tax expenses , which without them, very little would ever get done.
It is easy to get caught up in the politics and loose all perspective. some people will make excuses for his actions no matter how bad they turn out to be. Just remember that his most ardent supporters become his scapegoats. Being a loyal follower for trump means he will eventually blame you for one of his criminal actions. WAKE THE FUCK UP!

gerontocrat

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6397 on: February 23, 2021, 02:46:01 PM »

Overall, when you own as many properties and are in as many deals as Trump is , you are always put in a situation where you are pushing the envelope based on what your high paid accountants and tax lawyers tell you what you can and cannot do.

Given that Trump is of the rich, and the US (and UK) tax codes are largely written for the rich and by the rich, Trump should have no worries, being the man who (says he) wrote "the Art of The Deal".

So why the fuss?
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"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
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LeftyLarry

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6398 on: February 23, 2021, 08:10:02 PM »

Overall, when you own as many properties and are in as many deals as Trump is , you are always put in a situation where you are pushing the envelope based on what your high paid accountants and tax lawyers tell you what you can and cannot do.

Given that Trump is of the rich, and the US (and UK) tax codes are largely written for the rich and by the rich, Trump should have no worries, being the man who (says he) wrote "the Art of The Deal".

So why the fuss?

You are smarter than that .
Do you think that  if my, your and Hillary Clinton’s tax returns were all the same as Trump’s that they would all be adjudicated in the same way?

actually the tax codes are written for the poor and lower middle class , the top 25% , the “rich” pay most of the taxes, the top 50% pay 97% of the taxes.

Under Trump, the top 1% paid 21% of all the taxes a rise over the Obama years. shocking, huh?
Reality and the left’s storylines don’t often meet up on the bottom line.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2021, 06:30:37 PM by LeftyLarry »

karl dubhe2

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Re: The Trump Presidency
« Reply #6399 on: February 26, 2021, 12:32:52 AM »

actually the tax codes are written for the poor and lower middle class , the top 25% , the “rich” pay most of the taxes, the top 50% pay 97% of the taxes.

Under Trump, the top 1% paid 21% of all the taxes a rise over the Obama years. shocking, huh?
Reality and the left’s storylines don’t often meet up on the bottom line.

Given that they have the most to protect, yah, it's fair that they pay more in order for that 'wealth' to be secure.   If they don't pay, then the wealth will be threatened because poverty will get even worse than it is now.   I suspect your figures are cherry picked from the usual right wing sources.

Trickle down, or the horse and sparrow, economic theory is BS.   It's just as delusional as climate change denial.