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Who are you going to vote for?

Clinton
31 (70.5%)
Johnson
2 (4.5%)
Stein
6 (13.6%)
Trump
1 (2.3%)
Not going to vote / going to spoil ballot
4 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 43

Voting closed: November 26, 2016, 07:11:49 AM

Author Topic: The Trump Presidency  (Read 676606 times)

Pmt111500

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #650 on: November 24, 2016, 09:23:30 AM »


I'm in extreme sympathy with the fears that I expect we are all feeling.

I also fear for the longevity of this forum & therefor wonder if it is wise to continue what could be considered as attacks on the president elect of a country strong enough to close down this on any other web site,
I'm going to copy this to any other threads heading in this directon
Thanks
Terry

Good effort, I support the exclusion of politics from this forum. I'm of different opinion on the closing of the forum-issue. I'd say the denialati will IN ANY CASE try to force the shutdown the discussion over science on climate on all the forums everywhere, irrespective of political stance. Supporting the exclusion of politics here though, as some of them might still think there is such a thing as weather variance. After this I'm certain that some of them will see the forum as still being political, so attacks won't be totally prevented by sticking to science. Anyway excluding politics might make some of them think.

(This, after experiencing the hack on the SkS members forum, the denialists are evil.)

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Sleepy

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #651 on: November 24, 2016, 10:48:04 AM »
I also fear for the longevity of this forum & therefor wonder if it is wise to continue what could be considered as attacks on the president elect
I support the exclusion of politics from this forum.
Fair enough, I'm out.

Pmt111500

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #652 on: November 24, 2016, 11:18:36 AM »
I also fear for the longevity of this forum & therefor wonder if it is wise to continue what could be considered as attacks on the president elect
I support the exclusion of politics from this forum.
Fair enough, I'm out.
Heeyy... I said I support, but didn't mean that anyone should leave! At least it would be nice to keep it out from all the other sections than this "The Rest" which lately has been "Politics". As for the rest of the forum, I guess there's no stopping the politically minded people to write their garbage/bullshit on the scientific threads, so it's hard to totally ban the use of political bullshit there either. Too bad if you really took offense.

This is an open forum i think, but I could well leave too if there's a significant decrease in signal/noise-ratio in science threads. But now I'm dropping out of this discussion of  the fact-denier government of a nation with nukes.
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Pmt111500

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #653 on: November 24, 2016, 11:48:09 AM »
Maybe the republicans already have something on him? Why would they want someone that egoistic and unpredictable as president?

Edit; adding another odd thing, the letter that Swedish prime minister Stefan Löfvén sent to Mr T. Swedish government offices said the censored sections could interfere with Sweden’s international relations if they were disclosed.  ???

W%TF?? They can't even reveal the text of a congratulatory note??  Thanks for this info, Sleepy. I'm not that much into politics but the current trend of post-truth politics is so unnerving I'll take my former comment back. Shout the fuck out at those misanthropic asshats,  if that's your thing. I'll gladly get out if things get too heated, there are always old science papers to read, unless Trumpistas are going to burn the books and libraries.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #654 on: November 24, 2016, 12:19:56 PM »
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-constitution-liberals-231783

"The 229-year-old sentence liberals hope will sink Trump."

"An obscure line in the Constitution has become a rallying point for some legal experts and critics of Donald Trump, who fear the president-elect has little intention of making a clean break between his business interests and his new White House role."

I think this teaser deserves some explanation in the forum.  The Constitution says: "Known as the foreign Emoluments Clause, it states that “no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.”

It is simply impossible for a man who owns diverse global assets to remain in strict compliance with this requirement.  Even a carefully-constructed "blind trust" won't really suffice.  When Putin facilitates the construction of Trump Tower Moscow, the "blind" part is a sham. 

Buddy

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #655 on: November 24, 2016, 01:35:55 PM »
I think that keeping the "politics of science" topics in the "other" category is fine.  I would....however.....warn against removing any political topics.  While politics should NOT be part of science....here in the US we have science deniers who run powerful committees.  So we have NO CHOICE but to speak out about the politics.

When "they" come chopping the budgets....you can bet on where they are going to look.  Remember....we had a state legislature that voted to all but IGNORE science (North Carolina).

And if you look at who DoDo Donald has on his list of "likely hires" for his cabinet....you can be sure that he is going to strip whatever he can from those trying to PREVENT more global warming.  Watch what he does....NOT what he says he's going to do.

His likely choice for Treasury Secretary is a wallstreet guy with close ties to the coal industry....and is an avowed climate denier.  Mitt Romney is a "do nothing because it's no big deal" person when it comes to global warming.  Steve Bannon his strategic advisor made a film about global warming as a hoax.  Trump is set to abolish as much of the climate change agenda of Obama as he can.  As I said before....there are several "prongs" against Trump...and climate scientists are one of them.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Pmt111500

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #656 on: November 24, 2016, 01:43:20 PM »
<clip> Donald <clip> Watch what he does....NOT what he says he's going to do. <clip>
What, has someone imagined he would be an honest politician??
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #657 on: November 24, 2016, 04:28:41 PM »
The first attached image indicates that science is fundamentally a moral enterprise as it follows the moral imperative to seek the truth; and I note that the scientism adopted by the IPCC in their climate change Assessment Report abdicates responsibility to pursue the whole truth.  The second image emphasizes that we use neural brains that have internalized patterns/metaphors based on bodies interaction with the world; & I note that if we are going to deal with the real risks of the world that we now live in we need to accept the ways that our minds have been pre-programmed.  The third image indicates that people's thought, action and language are dominated by metaphors; thus you should be aware that AI programmers are keenly aware of this fact and are training their programs to deal with people at this metaphorical level.  The fourth image presents Lakoff's Paradox as to why progressive fail, when they win the first three bullet points because they trip over the last bullet point of how to communicate important messages metaphorically.

See also:
https://georgelakoff.com/2016/07/23/understanding-trump-2/
&
http://aminotes.tumblr.com/post/7191027430/george-lakoff-on-metaphors-explanatory-journalism
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #658 on: November 24, 2016, 04:39:05 PM »
I think it would be difficult to completely separate politics from the science of climate change. After all, a lot of this political discussion has at its core, concern for the environment. I'm all for limiting political discussion to the "off topic" category "the rest", but occasional comments of a political nature will inevitably pop up in the science threads.


budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #659 on: November 24, 2016, 04:51:13 PM »


I'm in extreme sympathy with the fears that I expect we are all feeling.

I also fear for the longevity of this forum & therefor wonder if it is wise to continue what could be considered as attacks on the president elect of a country strong enough to close down this on any other web site,
I'm going to copy this to any other threads heading in this directon
Thanks

Terry

Terry: Are you also concerned that political discussion is growing to the point where it detracts from the original intent of the Forum?

Buddy

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #660 on: November 24, 2016, 04:59:08 PM »
Quote
I also fear for the longevity of this forum & therefor wonder if it is wise to continue what could be considered as attacks on the president elect of a country strong enough to close down this on any other web site,

Terry...that is EXACTLY what a bully like Trump want's.  That is why he has ALWAYS acted the way he has.  To deal with a bully....you need to STAND UP TO HIM....EARLY AND OFTEN.  Otherwise....he will just keep going as though nothing has happened.

QUESTION:  How many press conferences has Trump had since he was elected?

ANSWER:  ZERO..ZIP.  He has had ONE MEETING with the NY Times that has been "on the record."  But he has had NO PRESS CONFERENCES with questions from a wide range of journalists.

Trump has CONNED the electorate.  Plain and simple.  The choice is to sit back and take it....or to PUSH HIM FOR TRUTH AND TRANSPARENCY.  Everyone is different.  But this is a simple choice for me.


FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

SteveMDFP

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #661 on: November 24, 2016, 06:11:05 PM »


I'm in extreme sympathy with the fears that I expect we are all feeling.

I also fear for the longevity of this forum & therefor wonder if it is wise to continue what could be considered as attacks on the president elect of a country strong enough to close down this on any other web site,
I'm going to copy this to any other threads heading in this directon
Thanks
Terry

I've given this concern a lot of thought, and I respect your concern.  However, I totally disagree.

Certainly, political discussion needs to be kept to specific non-arctic areas of the forum, that's just goood management of any forum.

But if Trumpists seek to shut down this site, it won't be because of political criticism of Trump.  It will be precisely because we lay out the facts and science that point to extinction-promoting climate change.  For one recent example, it's Wipneus' work that spread virally, and shook up some lay people in the greater net.  It's careful, scientific work like that which upsets entrenched interests.

Conversely, anybody anywhere, in any setting, might feel that criticizing Trump is too dangerous, and risks some greater good. Summed over a whole society, that's exactly how tyrants remain in power.  The AIDS activists of the 80's got it right, Silence=Death.

pileus

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #662 on: November 24, 2016, 06:22:00 PM »
Pileus: You've mentioned once or twice that you don't think Trump will take office as President on 1/20/17. He's won the election or at least the electoral vote, why wouldn't he take office?

Several possible outcomes. 

As some have noted, it's obvious he doesn't want the job.  He wanted to be the "heroic loser" and parlay that into a continued PR and Twitter insurgency against Clinton, and his other various enemies.  He doesn't want to be in DC other than at one of his local properties.  He is going to absolutely hate being inside the beltway.  It's a prison for someone like Trump, who values being able to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, to whomever he wants.  His ability to grab p****y will be greatly reduced.  So, in this scenario, he finds a way out before being sworn in.

Another is his health.  Ironically, the guy who accused Clinton of lacking "stamina" has none of his own.  He is a 70 year old, overweight, short tempered male that eats fast food.  He's a heart attack or stroke waiting to happen.  The pressure between now and late Jan is only going to exponentially increase.  It will wear him down.  I typically wish ill on no man, but I have no sympathy for this particular human.  He could hold hour long rallies with ease, but in the debates he ran out of steam after 15 minutes, every time.  The day to day presidency will be like the debates on steroids.  He's not going to last.

There are other scenarios that any inflammatory public figure must deal with, which I won't expand on here.


pileus

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #663 on: November 24, 2016, 06:28:22 PM »


I'm in extreme sympathy with the fears that I expect we are all feeling.

I also fear for the longevity of this forum & therefor wonder if it is wise to continue what could be considered as attacks on the president elect of a country strong enough to close down this on any other web site,
I'm going to copy this to any other threads heading in this directon
Thanks
Terry

Reasonable concerns, but in the US the President or President elect serves at the pleasure of the citizenry, and the First Amendment and other protections enable freedom of expression and extensive criticism. 

At his essence Donald Trump's primary principles are fear and intimidation.  He successfully made enough Americans fear the notion of Muslims as a threat to safety and security, a threat that is overblown beyond belief and is simply a play to racism and xenophobia.  Similar induced fear of Mexicans, primarily from a crime and economic perspective.

Being afraid and intimidated is EXACTLY what Trump and his handlers want from all of us.  We should be relentless in our comments and critiques, and not back down an inch from this monster.

TerryM

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #664 on: November 25, 2016, 02:33:37 AM »
Thanks for listening to my concerns.
The catch-phrase we'll be hearing for the next little while seems likely to be:


POLITICIZED SCIENCE


What this will actually comprise of is any scientific facts, theories, or hypotheses, that interfere with the political direction our incoming leadership may espouse.
 
Many of us might agree that the pairing of science and politics inevitably leads to progeny that look like science, but that are incapable of reproduction. These mulish hybrids, unable to develop their own branches of science, are eventually pruned from our body of learning, but policies that they beget can develop deep roots and have effects long after the parent has withered and died.


In an effort to separate the two, I think keeping science and politics in their own segregated sections is the minimum we should strive for.
We know that our discussions will be accused of political bias no matter how careful we are, but why provide ammunition to those who need to attack us to have any chance of believability when faced with facts that even insects and worms are reacting to?


Donald Trump is an ass.
Arctic ice is disappearing.


Both true, but perhaps each sentence is more powerful when not mentioned in close proximity to the other?
One truth is a subjective ad hominem. One truth is scientifically viable.
Why would we want to diminish the message that either sentence imparts.


Thanks
Terry




budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #665 on: November 25, 2016, 07:38:33 AM »

Why would we want to diminish the message that either sentence imparts.

Thanks
Terry

Terry: You've made your point crystal clear with this post and your point is well taken. We should exercise caution to not dilute the scientific message. What amount of political discussion on this Forum would be acceptable, in your opinion?

budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #666 on: November 25, 2016, 08:36:39 AM »
Pileus: You've mentioned once or twice that you don't think Trump will take office as President on 1/20/17. He's won the election or at least the electoral vote, why wouldn't he take office?

Several possible outcomes. 


Pileus: I'm almost in complete agreement with you. The "heroic loser" makes sense to me. I'm sure he would have preferred that type of outcome. He would prefer to complain than to actually formulate policy. Being in a position of leadership opens him up to criticism, which he doesn't like, and he obviously cant complain about it.

I also agree that he'll have great difficulty with the confines of the office, as well as possible health problems.

I asked the question because I thought maybe there may be another reason for him to not take the oath of office on 1/20/17. I think he is woefully unprepared to be President.

I've stated before and I'll repeat that I think his Presidency will be a train wreck, which despite causing a lot of damage, could result in positive and perhaps even historic election results for Democrats in 2018 and 2020.

I've given a lot of thought to this, and I think it would be best but highly unlikely if he could be stopped before taking the oath of office. Obviously a long shot, but once he has taken the oath, if he is impeached or if he abdicates for whatever reason, Mike Pence will become President and I'd prefer to not see that happen.




Buddy

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #667 on: November 25, 2016, 02:29:52 PM »
Trump's approval rating is now 44%....the lowest of any incoming president since Gallup has done polling on it.

I would NOT BE SURPRISED....if that were to slip into the 30ish area (mid 20's to low 30's) over the next 12 months.

Take a look at what is happening in South Korea NOW:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/south-korea-president-approval-rating-drops_us_5837c35ee4b01ba68ac45569
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Archimid

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #668 on: November 25, 2016, 04:01:30 PM »
Quote
Being afraid and intimidated is EXACTLY what Trump and his handlers want from all of us.  We should be relentless in our comments and critiques, and not back down an inch from this monster.

Amen to that. His fear tactic is working too. The New York Times and Washington Post are already intimidated and are softening their language. That is exactly what Trump wants. Once we accept his racism and hate as part of everyday life it will grow and give him power. This will silence more and more people as well as embolden his racist army. If he start rounding up scapegoats (muslims/immigrants/Insert category that includes his enemies) good people will be more scared and his racist troll army emboldened.

This is not the first time this happens. People can't believe it because it has never happened to them, but that is certainly in the direction we are heading.

Now is that time that Martin Mueller warned us about:

Quote
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #669 on: November 25, 2016, 04:31:17 PM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-%E2%80%98fake-news%E2%80%99-during-election-experts-say/ar-AAkJbXf?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

"Russian propaganda effort helped spread ‘fake news’ during election, experts say."

Extract: The flood of “fake news” this election season got support from a sophisticated Russian propaganda campaign that created and spread misleading articles online with the goal of punishing Democrat Hillary Clinton, helping Republican Donald Trump and undermining faith in American democracy, say independent researchers who tracked the operation.


Xulonn

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #670 on: November 25, 2016, 06:06:53 PM »
Trump's approval rating is now 44%....the lowest of any incoming president since Gallup has done polling on it.

I would NOT BE SURPRISED....if that were to slip into the 30ish area (mid 20's to low 30's) over the next 12 months...

Buddy,  I am a 75 y/o American living as an expat in Panama. I have lived in good times and have few regrets.  Although I am not wealthy, it appears that I will be able to live out my life in relative comfort.  I had a mild heart attack earlier this year, and realize that my time on this planet is limited - but I fear for the next generations.
 
I agree on the likelihood that Trumps ratings will drop steadily. I believe that less than 1/4 of the "eligible" U.S. voters actually voted for him, and he lost the popular vote by over 2 million.   

The American right wing - a corporate funded and run sector - has used hundreds of millions of dollars to fund the finest persuasive propaganda and media techniques money can buy.  With the new and very persuasive powers of the internet, they pushed propaganda like the highly successful "Put Hillary the liar in Jail" meme.  This Hillary and jail meme is a "huge" obsession with Trump fans, and he will lose support as he abandons this and other campaign promises.  Also, Trump is not "draining the Washington DC swamp of insiders and lobbyists" as he promised to do, but rather he expanding the boundaries of that swamp and increasing it's influence.

Trump cannot "bring the jobs back" because many of them don't exist.  He believes in stiffing workers and not honoring contracts, tries to cheat the unions at his hotels, and is not likely to support increasing the minimum wage requirements.  He buys foreign goods instead of buying U.S. made products.  Based on such facts, it is illogical - even insane - for people to believe that he would bring good-paying manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.  He can't - and he won't do these things - but how will his supporters react when he tries to pass the blame for his failures?

More and more semi-skilled and skilled manufacturing and repetitive jobs continue to disappear due to replacement by robotics and automation.  There are many people in the U.S. and elsewhere with less than average IQ - after all, and IQ of 100 is "average" and about one-third of the population is between 85 and 115 IQ.   (Like population issues, this topic is uncomfortable for many people to discuss.)  Many modern technology jobs require higher intelligence and sitting in a cubicle.  But even high-tech jobs are not immune to pay degradation.  I went from $55/hour as senior desktop support tech for Windows, and senior Novell network administrator in 2000 - to leaving the field when I couldn't get a job above $12/hr in 2001.  (And of course, being 60 y/o and slower and les efficient than the young hot-shot techies didn't help.)

People of "less than average" intelligence could in the past work at well-paying union and non-union manufacturing jobs, buy nice cars and houses, and live as friends and neighbors of many of the "more intelligent" segments of human societies.  In the futurist and utopian novels and books I read in my youth, the "workers" - who did the hard, dangerous and often boring manufacturing jobs - would be replaced by robots and automation - and that is exactly what is happening.  The fatal flaw in the reasoning of those futurist writings was that they expected the working class to be freed to pursue art, poetry and other intellectual and cultural pursuits - which requires that the "system" (governments?) would have to provide incomes to the displaced workers, because the wealth would be created by the machines, not the labor of humans. 

We all know how that turned out - rather than supporting the displaced workers, the wealth flowed - and continues to flow - into the bank accounts of the uber wealthy - the real "elites."  And while their accumulation of wealth continues to grow, they have managed to deflect the logic and reason about blue-collar job losses towards blaming "trade agreements" and ethnic and racial hatred.  The very people who have been duped and robbed of their livelihoods believe that they can and will be rich and successful themselves - if only they work with the Tea Party folks and elect and support the very people who took their jobs away - the corporate interests.  This is freaking insane - and I don't know what can be done about it - especially since the concept of politicians and judges as public servants rather than corporate toadies has been pretty much lost.  Do those rare remaining dedicated public servants like Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, and some of the new incoming Democratic women senators stand a chance of holding back the tide?  If their job performance is strong as they oppose the policies and practices of Trump and his incoming administration, will they inspire voters to send them "reinforcements" two years from now in the next election cycle?   

I could go on with the details, probably for many, many pages, but I will stop and summarize thusly: 

In the past few decades, there have been fundamental changes in the financial, manufacturing, and communication sectors of modern western society.  These changes have caused permanent  job losses for large numbers of people and the reduction or elimination of reasonable income for this segment.  Those people cannot - or will not - face reality and recognize the true causes of manufacturing job losses and the redistribution of wealth to the already wealthy.  Plus, human psychology hinders the ability of many to recognize the present and future threats of environmental degradation and AGW/CC. 

With narcissism and greed dominating politics more and more, sacrifice and a reduction in energy and resource use are not popular ideas.  Right-wing and nationalist liars are ascending to positions of power in many democracies around the world, leaving those who rely on reason, science, and logic to chart a course into the future with a very difficult task.  The legend of Sisyphus has taken on new meaning as I watch the Trump and other nationalists and greedy monsters replace leaders who at least tried to make even a small bit of progress towards dealing with the problems that we humans face.  Even if the U.S. turns the politics around a bit in two and four years, the boulders of positive progress are right now rolling back down the hill. 

 

Cross-posted at Dr. Ricky Rood's Wunderground Climate Change Blog

budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #671 on: November 26, 2016, 06:07:09 AM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/republicans-democrats-vote-coalition_us_583893a1e4b000af95ee2e52?bygy14i

"The Big Lesson From 2016 Is That Neither Party Has A Winning Vote Coalition."

"The Obama coalition turned out to be pretty weak, but Trump’s might be even weaker."

AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #672 on: November 26, 2016, 06:56:09 PM »
The linked Huntington Post article is entitled: "8 New Reasons The Electoral College Shouldn’t Vote For Trump", argues that Trump is not the president elect until the electoral college makes him so.  Who knows how much more dirt (in addition to the 8 reasons cited in the article) will come out on this man before the Dec 19 2016 vote?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/davidhalperin/8-new-reasons-the-elector_b_13248386.html


Extract: "Hamilton argued for the electoral college system in these terms: “The process of election affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications.” The electors have not just a right, but an obligation, not to vote for a candidate lacking such qualifications.

But top White House ethics lawyers for both President Obama and President George W. Bush have said the electoral college should reject Trump unless he sells his business and puts his wealth in a blind trust — because otherwise his presidency will be on a collision course with the Constitution.

Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution prohibits U.S. office holders from accepting “any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.” Former Obama White House lawyer Norm Eisen explained to ThinkProgress that “the founders did not want any foreign payments to the president. Period.”  Room rental fees by foreign governments to the Trump hotel in Washington, or any other Trump hotel, would constitute such payments.  Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe told ThinkProgress that violation of this constitutional provision “would qualify as one of the ‘high Crimes and Misdemeanors’ that would require Trump to be ‘removed from Office.’”

In other words, from a constitutional perspective, the Trump presidency would be dead on arrival.
Richard Painter, the chief ethics lawyer in the George W. Bush White House, offered a similar view of Trump’s stance in an appearance on CNN:  “I don’t think the electoral college can vote for someone to become president if he’s going to be in violation of the Constitution on day one and hasn’t assured us he’s not in violation.”

Trump insisted in his New York Times interview that “I don’t want there to be a conflict of interest.” But he asserted the position that “the law is totally on my side, meaning, the president can’t have a conflict of interest” and opined that “in theory I could run my business perfectly, and then run the country perfectly.”

Even if a miracle occurred and enough electors came together to deny Trump 270 votes, the matter would go to Congress, whose GOP leaders now seem to have fallen in love with the man so many of them were running away from just weeks ago; Congress might well hand the election to Trump anyway. But electors could still do their job, vote their consciences, and force Congress to make the decision about whether to install Trump.

In any case, I’m not arguing what’s likely. I’m arguing that we are not powerless."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #673 on: November 26, 2016, 07:58:45 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Clinton campaign will participate in Wisconsin recount, with an eye on ‘outside interference,’ lawyer says".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/26/clinton-campaign-will-participate-in-wisconsin-recount-with-an-eye-on-outside-interference-lawyer-says/?utm_term=.3f30576632e7

Extract: "According to New York magazine, the group found that Clinton “received 7 percent fewer votes in counties that relied on electronic-voting machines compared with counties that used optical scanners and paper ballots,” and that based on that “statistical analysis, Clinton may have been denied as many as 30,000 votes; she lost Wisconsin by 27,000.”

J. Alex Halderman, one of the academics reportedly involved, later wrote on Medium that the deviations were “probably not” the result of a cyberattack but that “the only way to know whether a cyberattack changed the result is to closely examine the available physical evidence  —  paper ballots and voting equipment in critical states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.”
...
Brian Fallon, a spokesman for the Clinton campaign, rejected the notion that the campaign’s actions might suggest to some that it was not accepting the election results.

“The post says we would not have sought the recount on our own, that we see no evidence of tampering so far, and acknowledge the margin in Michigan, which is the tightest of the three, exceeds the largest deficit ever overcome in a recount,” Fallon wrote to The Washington Post. “We note we are guarding our prerogatives now that someone else has launched a recount. Not sure what you could point to to suggest there is anything here that calls the results into question.”"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #674 on: November 27, 2016, 03:59:14 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "Donald Trump and the Lawsuit Presidency".  It looks like Trump's legal problems are only going to continue:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/opinion/donald-trump-and-the-lawsuit-presidency.html?_r=0

Extract: "... Mr. Trump could find himself in a near-constant stream of court fights while he tries to focus on running the country. Even in advance of any decisions, there is a degree of poetic justice here, since the scorched-earth approach has long been standard practice for Mr. Trump; as a businessman, he thrived on no-holds-barred legal conflict and hauled out the heavy artillery for even minor disputes. Less than three weeks before the election, he threatened to sue at least 11 women who had recently come forward with allegations that he sexually assaulted them.

Now consider all the potential conflicts of interest if this litigiousness should come to, or from, the Oval Office. What happens if there is litigation involving a building he leases from the federal government? Or if the Internal Revenue Service — an executive-branch agency — recommends civil or criminal penalties based on an audit of Mr. Trump’s taxes?"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #675 on: November 27, 2016, 05:16:18 AM »
In any case, I’m not arguing what’s likely. I’m arguing that we are not powerless."

Agreed. The recounts in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan will most likely not change the outcome of the election, unless evidence of hacking is clearly found. Despite the fact that Trump reserved the right to question the election results if he lost, he now calls the recount push a "scam."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-slams-recount-push-as-a-scam-says-election-is-over/ar-AAkNPtC?ocid=spartandhp

budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #676 on: November 27, 2016, 05:22:49 AM »
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/colorado-river-mexico-water-sharing-trump-231811

"Trump win churns U.S.-Mexico water talks."

"Negotiators from both nations are hustling to finish a new agreement for sharing water from the Colorado River — before President Barack Obama leaves office."

budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #677 on: November 27, 2016, 05:48:54 PM »
I'm sure we were all expecting this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38124358

"Trump attacks Clinton over Wisconsin vote recount."

budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #678 on: November 27, 2016, 06:06:28 PM »
http://www.france24.com/en/f24-interview/20161118-trump-putin-honeymoon-will-soon-end-says-russian-opposition-figure

"Mikhail Khodorkovsky, a Russian businessman and staunch opponent of President Vladimir Putin, tells FRANCE 24 that the mutual admiration between Putin and Donald Trump expressed on the US campaign trail is about to end."

AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #679 on: November 27, 2016, 08:27:02 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "‘A bunch of crybabies’: Trump camp derides Clinton campaign decision to join recount effort".  The article indicates that the Trump camp is using intimidation tactics (threatening to prosecute Hillary) to circumvent democratic processes otherwise protected by law:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/27/trump-calls-recount-efforts-sad-declares-nothing-will-change/

Extract: "On "State of the Union," Conway said Trump was not focused on prosecuting Clinton but wouldn't rule it out — which she said indicated that Trump was being "incredibly gracious and magnanimous" to Clinton.

“There is a respect there. And there is a respect for the process," Conway said. "Which is why this recount by Jill Stein and Hillary Clinton is ridiculous. They have to decide whether they’re going to interfere [in the last eight weeks of Obama’s presidency] or whether they’re going to be a bunch of crybabies.""
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budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #680 on: November 27, 2016, 08:38:23 PM »

Extract: "On "State of the Union," Conway said Trump was not focused on prosecuting Clinton but wouldn't rule it out — which she said indicated that Trump was being "incredibly gracious and magnanimous" to Clinton.


"Incredibly gracious and magnanimous!" It's as if Trump has granted Clinton some "dispensation". He and his team should have left this issue alone or simply say that the other candidates were within their rights to request a recount.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #681 on: November 28, 2016, 01:44:36 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "Trump falsely claims he only lost popular vote because ‘millions’ voted illegally".  If Trump feels that there were millions of illegal votes why doesn't he have the integrity to fund recounts like Jill Stein has done in Wisconsin and will soon do in Michigan and Pennsylvania?

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article117390498.html

Extract: "In a tweet Sunday afternoon, President-elect Donald Trump said he won the popular vote in Nov. 8’s election if “you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally.”

There has been no evidence of the widespread voter fraud that would have had to taken place to give Clinton millions of illegitimate votes."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #682 on: November 28, 2016, 02:25:32 AM »
As a follow-up on my last post the following linked article is entitled: “Donald Trump, editor-in-chief of the fake news movement”.


http://qz.com/846551/donald-trump-editor-in-chief-of-the-fake-news-movement/


Extract: “Fake news, we have learned over the past several weeks, is spread easily by profiteers, propagandists, and performance artists. But they have nothing on the next president of the United States.
Donald Trump just made an extraordinary claim on Twitter:

“In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally”

That’s simply untrue.


It may be tempting to dismiss Trump’s tweet as just another lie by a man who has made a career of them. But it’s worth analyzing the origins of his latest unfounded claim as a case study in how misinformation can easily spread into the mainstream.

The idea that so many people voted illegally? Trump didn’t make it up. Somebody else did.

The claim appears to have originated with Gregg Phillips, who identifies himself online as a resident of Austin, Texas, and the founder of an app for reporting voter fraud. A few days after the election, he tweeted that more than 3 million people had voted illegally, citing an “analysis” that he hasn’t released ...”

Trump has in the past defended his false statements by saying, “All I know is what’s on the internet.” Now he is positioning himself as editor-in-chief of the fake news movement, soon to be bolstered the imprimatur of the US presidency. “

See also:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-and-his-team-attack-attempts-to-recount-ballots-in-three-states-1480268403

&

http://time.com/4582868/donald-trump-people-illegally-voted-election/
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 02:45:32 AM by AbruptSLR »
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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #683 on: November 28, 2016, 03:10:56 AM »
The linked "The Daily Beast" article on our "Kleptocracy Crisis" is entitled: “The People Chose Hillary Clinton. Now We Need To Stop Donald Trump From Trashing Our Democracy”.  Will the electoral college elect such a man the President of the USA when the Founding Fathers established the college to make just such a decision?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/27/the-people-chose-hillary-clinton-now-we-need-to-stop-donald-trump-from-trashing-our-democracy.html


Extract: “I hate to hear myself saying things like the electors shouldn’t vote for the person who did win under the rules. I don’t know if I can quite endorse that, yet. But by all means, these recounts should be pursued—whatever Jill Stein’s motives here, she’s stumbled into doing something right for once. Democrats from Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi on down should be raising every question they can about Trump’s legitimacy and conflicts. 

Three simple points. He was not the choice of the people; he prevailed with the help of a foreign power, a power to which he will clearly be indebted; and he tells us straight up that he will do as he pleases with his business and that he is above the law. 

The Democrats ought to be able to stand up and oppose that—not in the name of party, but in the name of country. The press ought to, too—not in the name of “liberalism,” but in the name of the values we purport to defend. We are in a crisis. The next few weeks will show us who’s up to recognizing and acting on it.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

JMP

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #684 on: November 28, 2016, 05:42:58 AM »
The lies are intolerable! and the election news has been very upsetting.

Screw the popular vote even... What is the purpose of the Electoral College if not to save the world from suffering under a President such as Trump? 

It's purpose is certainly not to go AGAINST the popular vote.  I find it almost as alarming that so many are not awake to the principles and intent of the US Constitution, as Trump being President versus Clinton.  It is of course most alarming however that Science based reality is not paramount in either... any case but that's digression.

I can find happiness in an imperfect world of course... but to constantly read the lies put forth nearly constantly nowadays is almost unbearable.  Now, if the electors vote as "faithless" against Trump they may face potential ruin.   What are we going to do?  I urge everyone to write their electors, sign the petitions, email their congressional representative, do all you can.  If you don't live in the US write to people anyway.  How can we just sit by and let this happen?  Whether we stop it or not, may matter less than the principal of doing all that we can... imho, because the inevitable consequences seem so dire.  But, if we're gonna err let's be wrong still having done all that we could. 

Don't we gotta do something? 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/meet-the-hamilton-electors-hoping-for-an-electoral-college-revolt/508433/

"they suggest a “compromise candidate”—a Republican they find less objectionable than Trump, such as former Republican nominee Mitt Romney or Ohio Governor John Kasich. (Though those options are just placeholders; they said it should be up to the Republican electors to pick a new standard-bearer.)"

   

budmantis

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #685 on: November 28, 2016, 06:40:19 AM »
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-claims-%E2%80%98serious-voter-fraud%E2%80%99-in-3-states/ar-AAkPFJx?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

"Trump claims ‘serious voter fraud’ in 3 states ."

The three states: Virginia, New Hampshire and California. With every new twitter rant, Trump continues to prove that he is unfit to be President. Although I thought differently immediately after the election, it's clear the best way to stop Trump is before 1/20/17.

Feeltheburn

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #686 on: November 28, 2016, 06:50:51 AM »
Missed this one. Will the lone Trump voter admit it?
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Feeltheburn

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #687 on: November 28, 2016, 06:58:27 AM »
Quote
- implement laws that treat political lies as what they are; "fraud"

I agree with most of what you suggest.  My favorite....is the one you suggested above.

We have hundreds of thousands of people in prison for "MINOR SHIT".  Meanwhile....we have people walking the streets that have suggested:

1)  tobacco products are fine......which caused MILLIONS OF DEATHS
2)  global warming is a hoax......which will cost us TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS for waiting to fix it
3)  lead paint is fine....only to find out later it isn't
4)  packaging and selling mortgages that were worthless....costing billions of dollars

As a CIVIILIZED SOCIETY we can't ALLOW people to lie.  VERY SIMPLE.  TELL THE F#####G truth about matters of PUBLIC POLICY or you will be prosecuted.

But think about this:  We also have a FAKE NEWS CHANNEL THAT LIES ON A DAILY BASIS.  In fact....THEY HAVE TRIED TO THROW THE CURRENT ELECTION.

FOX News is not much better than listening to Russian television.  It's a disgrace to democracy.

If we manage to get through this election.......it won't be because of FOX News did any JOURNALISM.

Most of politics is a lie, or at least slanting the facts to suit one's views. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the point of the 1st amendment is to protect speech that is unpopular and which the majority disagrees with. Laws against libel protect persons accused of things that are not true (lies). The antidote for speech you don't like is to speak up and support views you do like. I am shocked that the same people who fought for free speech in the 1960s are now trying to shut it down.
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Feeltheburn

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #688 on: November 28, 2016, 07:09:12 AM »

The only way to repair our dysfunctional system, is a return to the center, a return to civility and bipartisanship. So I ask, what is the quickest way to return to some semblance of a working political system? A Hillary Clinton presidency? I seriously doubt it and when it comes to election day, I'm not sure I'll be able to vote for her. There is no "none of the above" selection on the ballot, but there should be and I think that may be the ultimate protest vote.

Too bad we weren't given a choice. :(
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Feeltheburn

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #689 on: November 28, 2016, 07:16:49 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "Republican Donald Trump Is Elected President Of United States And Global Markets Plunge".  There is a price to be paid for such arrogant ignorance:


So what now that the stock market is at record highs?
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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #690 on: November 28, 2016, 07:17:14 AM »

The only way to repair our dysfunctional system, is a return to the center, a return to civility and bipartisanship. So I ask, what is the quickest way to return to some semblance of a working political system? A Hillary Clinton presidency? I seriously doubt it and when it comes to election day, I'm not sure I'll be able to vote for her. There is no "none of the above" selection on the ballot, but there should be and I think that may be the ultimate protest vote.

Too bad we weren't given a choice. :(

FTB: Hindsight is 20/20! Knowing what I know now, I think I would have bypassed the moral conflict I felt before the election. Almost three weeks after the election, it's clear Clinton was the only vote that made sense. I did vote for Clinton anyway and I wish she would have won.

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #691 on: November 28, 2016, 12:58:12 PM »
Quote
Most of politics is a lie, or at least slanting the facts to suit one's views. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the point of the 1st amendment is to protect speech that is unpopular and which the majority disagrees with. Laws against libel protect persons accused of things that are not true (lies).

Most politics doesn't HAVE TO BE A LIE.  For many....it is.  Trump is just happens to be the best example of it.  In fact....one of my points is that THE PRESS.....should be the primary "guardian and insurer" of the truth.....AND...of free speech. 

I'm a BIG PROPONENT and believer in the first amendment of the freedom of speech AND the press. And they (both individuals AND the press) should use it in a strong manner (on both sides of the political divide).    But lying....should be EXPOSED QUICKLY AND FORECFULLY.  FOX News is just one such OBVIOUS EXAMPLE.  IF you look at FOX News' coverage of global warming it is EMBARRASSING.  They use lies....and a COMPLETE AVOIDANCE OF HISTORICAL AND SCIENTIFIC FACT to cover global warming.  Except for the last TWO YEARS.....apparently they saw the need to "cover their ass" so they have carved out Sheppard Smith to speak on "behalf" of global warming in his 5% or less of the total FOX News.  The other 95% of FOX pundits and fake journalists continue to lie about global warming.

Quote
The antidote for speech you don't like is to speak up and support views you do like. I am shocked that the same people who fought for free speech in the 1960s are now trying to shut it down.

The only antidote for lies....is to expose them.  There is an OCEAN OF DIFFERENCE between views someone doesn't like.....and views that are being supported BY LIES OR CONVENIENT LACK OF FACTS.  We don't have a "choice" in FACTS.   FACTS ARE FACTS.  If it's 80 degrees in the room based on 3 different thermometers.....it's 80 degrees....PERIOD.  Even if FOX wants it to be 70 degrees BASED ON THEIR OPINION AS WELL AS ZERO FACTS AND RESEARCH,.   FOX and TRUMP are a lot alike:  They make up whatever they want the answer to be.

Trump and FOX are just the most obvious examples of lying and an almost total lack of fact based research.  I would LOVE to have a "fiscally conservative" based news channel.  BUT IT NEEDS TO BE BASED ON FACTS......not the views of an "unidentified third party who just happened to be another FOX pundit."

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #692 on: November 28, 2016, 01:27:25 PM »
Quote
Quote
The linked article is entitled: "Republican Donald Trump Is Elected President Of United States And Global Markets Plunge".  There is a price to be paid for such arrogant ignorance

So what now that the stock market is at record highs?


Why is the stock market at record highs?  Glad you asked:

1)  GDP last quarter was 2.9%
2)  Unemployment is down to 4.9% (down from 8.3% at the end of the first full month Obama took office)
3)  Jobless claims have had 90 straight months of less than 300,000 claims.....a record that goes back to 1970 when the job market was 66,000,000 rather than the 137,000,000 it is now.
4)  Interest rates are expected to rise.....and money has been, and will continue to come OUT of the bond market and head INTO the stock market as interest rates continue to SLOWLY RISE.

THAT.....is why the stock market is up. 

When Obama came into office.....the Bush economy was losing 800,000 JOBS A MONTH.  In other words...George wrecked the Ferrari by crashing into a concrete wall...and then handed the keys to Obama and said:  "Good luck....she's not running so great right now."

Now that the car has been repaired and running in good shape......Trump doesn't have any excuses.  So if he wrecks it again....IT'S ON HIM. 


« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 01:33:21 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #693 on: November 28, 2016, 04:51:30 PM »
Quote
Quote
The linked article is entitled: "Republican Donald Trump Is Elected President Of United States And Global Markets Plunge".  There is a price to be paid for such arrogant ignorance

So what now that the stock market is at record highs?


Why is the stock market at record highs?  Glad you asked:
...
Now that the car has been repaired and running in good shape......Trump doesn't have any excuses.  So if he wrecks it again....IT'S ON HIM. 

In addition to Buddy's valid points, the stock market is also up because:

1) The market indices are skewed towards fossil fuel companies, so this is a Faustian Bargain.
2) Trump will not crack-down on cheating by banks (like that by Wells Fargo), so the bank stock rebounded in another Faustian Bargain.
3) In order to pay for his planned infrastructure spending spree Trump will use Public Private Partnerships and associated tax breaks for the rich to turn America into a kleptocracy so that all the common goods are transferred to the rich; which is another Faustian Bargain.

I could go on, but my basic point is that all too many people are prepared to sell their souls to the devil for a temporary sugar rush (which is exactly why we are currently in a climate change crisis).
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Archimid

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #694 on: November 28, 2016, 05:40:29 PM »
Quote
I could go on, but my basic point is that all too many people are prepared to sell their souls to the devil for a temporary sugar rush.

Yep, followed by the inevitable crash. These people are blinded by a life of privilege. Very few know suffering first hand. They honestly think there  can be infinite growth and believe people are infinite agents in the economy. They also believe people are above and apart of nature. Science tells us otherwise, but they are not scientists.



I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #695 on: November 28, 2016, 07:07:12 PM »
Quote
I could go on, but my basic point is that all too many people are prepared to sell their souls to the devil for a temporary sugar rush.

Yep, followed by the inevitable crash. These people are blinded by a life of privilege. Very few know suffering first hand. They honestly think there  can be infinite growth and believe people are infinite agents in the economy. They also believe people are above and apart of nature. Science tells us otherwise, but they are not scientists.


Even the Wall Street Journal is guarded about the pending sugar rush from Trump's pending reality-show style of governance, as indicated in the linked article entitled: "Will Political Reality Derail Markets’ Bet on Donald Trump?".

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-safe-is-the-market-bet-on-donald-trump-1480350589

Extract: "So far, the financial markets love the coming Donald Trump presidency, and why not? They look at the combination of a big tax cut, big infrastructure spending and lower regulations and see economic stimulus all around—big-league stimulus, as the president-elect might say.
Less obvious is the implicit assumption the markets are making that two looming problems with all this stimulation won’t short-circuit the good times. The first is that Mr. Trump won’t set off a crippling global trade war with some of his more protectionist impulses, and the second is that the federal budget deficit won’t grow into the kind of problem that can derail everything else."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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pileus

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #696 on: November 28, 2016, 07:47:34 PM »
Pileus: I'm almost in complete agreement with you. The "heroic loser" makes sense to me. I'm sure he would have preferred that type of outcome. He would prefer to complain than to actually formulate policy. Being in a position of leadership opens him up to criticism, which he doesn't like, and he obviously cant complain about it.

I also agree that he'll have great difficulty with the confines of the office, as well as possible health problems.

I asked the question because I thought maybe there may be another reason for him to not take the oath of office on 1/20/17. I think he is woefully unprepared to be President.

I've stated before and I'll repeat that I think his Presidency will be a train wreck, which despite causing a lot of damage, could result in positive and perhaps even historic election results for Democrats in 2018 and 2020.

I've given a lot of thought to this, and I think it would be best but highly unlikely if he could be stopped before taking the oath of office. Obviously a long shot, but once he has taken the oath, if he is impeached or if he abdicates for whatever reason, Mike Pence will become President and I'd prefer to not see that happen.

We are on the same page, and have highlighted what is the essence of the situation and solution.

Trump is a conspiracy theorist, and believes whatever he sees on Twitter and Facebook, or what he hears from his sycophants. He does not operate in the world of facts.  He's basically the outcome of what you would expect from 30+ years of conservative fact-free talk radio, which was carried over to TV (Fox News) and the Internet, which of all the mediums has amplified the consequences.

We here are familiar with it...It's the climate change "debate" on steriods.  Discard fact, logic, science, and informed thinking and policy for conspiracies, rumors, gossip, and turn that into attacks and condemnation of the people that operate in a world of fact, truth, science, and information.  People like Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich and Frank Luntz are the founding fathers of this philosophy.  They started this garbage back in the mid 90s, to vilify anyone that didn't agree with the "conservative" mindset and started the use of repeating buzz words and phrases until most people accept them as "fact" or stop pushing back.

It's absolutely horrifying to think that Trump becomes President of the US.  A conspiracy theorist who doesn't care about information and facts.  Absurd, and not just for climate change.

My hope is that he self-destructs before Jan 20, or people in the right places step up and leverage whatever peaceful mechanism is available to prevent him taking the oath of office.




Buddy

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #697 on: November 28, 2016, 08:40:25 PM »
So.....here we are, almost 3 weeks AFTER the election and still no press conference WITH QUESTIONS.

1)  Is he afraid of questions?
2)  Does he NOT want to talk about having less votes than Clinton? Embarrassed?
3)  Is he like the dog who finally caught up to the car.....and now doesn't know what to do?

Where are you Dimwit Donny?  Looking forward to his first press conference with questions.  Should be entertaining......

And when is he going to show his tax returns?....... ;)


FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #698 on: November 28, 2016, 10:15:00 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Wisconsin rejects hand recount mandate; Stein to sue".  The game is afoot:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/11/28/elections-staff-layout-recount-timeline/94539210/

Extract: "The Wisconsin Elections Commission set a timetable Monday for a recount of the presidential election but rejected a request to require a count by hand made by Green Party candidate Jill Stein, who quickly responded that she would sue.

Also Monday, Stein filed a lawsuit in Pennsylvania to force a recount there and her supporters began filing recount requests at the precinct level there. Stein — who received just a tiny piece of the vote —also plans to ask for a recount in Michigan on Wednesday.

Stein has taken in $6.5 million since Wednesday through an online fundraising blitz to fund her recount efforts."
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 10:23:29 PM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Presidential poll for US citizens on the forum
« Reply #699 on: November 28, 2016, 10:44:48 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Here Are The Problems With The Trump Team's Voter Fraud Evidence".  I doubt that such a flip-flopper will make an effective president (assuming that the Electoral College seats him):

http://www.npr.org/2016/11/28/503628803/here-are-the-problems-with-the-trump-teams-voter-fraud-evidence

Extract: "Consider it another Trump flip-flop: back in October, Donald Trump told a crowd, "I will totally accept the results of this great and historic presidential election, if I win."

Trump went on to decisively win the Electoral College, but now he's questioning the results anyway. In a tweet this weekend, the president-elect alleged — providing zero evidence — that "millions of people" voted illegally, and that that's the reason Hillary Clinton won the popular vote.

On a Monday morning phone call, the Trump team tried to back up the claim when NPR's Tamara Keith asked them for corroborating evidence. However, nothing they cited really made that case."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson