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Author Topic: The Nares Strait thread  (Read 540867 times)

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2000 on: July 03, 2019, 10:06:48 PM »
Well, you only need to find someone who installs and maintains the measurement equipment and someone who pays for it.

That's all. :)
 

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2001 on: July 03, 2019, 10:11:10 PM »
On a serious note, i can imagine a software that counts pixels floating down the strait. That would be a nice and ambitious programming job for someone ...

oren

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2002 on: July 03, 2019, 10:19:26 PM »
B_l, great gifs.
Stephan, Nares export is quite difficult to quantify scientifically. Fram export can be estimated quite well using PIOMAS data, shown in the graph Wipneus updates from time to time. But PIOMAS resolution is too poor for Nares. A researcher could track and quantify the ice area flowing down the northern end of the strait, but it would be an almost impossible task for an armchair hobbyist. (Unless someone volunteers...?)

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2003 on: July 03, 2019, 10:23:43 PM »
Thank you, Oren!  :)

Stephan

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2004 on: July 03, 2019, 11:01:32 PM »
Stephan, Nares export is quite difficult to quantify scientifically. Fram export can be estimated quite well using PIOMAS data, shown in the graph Wipneus updates from time to time. But PIOMAS resolution is too poor for Nares. A researcher could track and quantify the ice area flowing down the northern end of the strait, but it would be an almost impossible task for an armchair hobbyist. (Unless someone volunteers...?)

OK, oren.
So I come back to my idea of installing ten or more time-lapse cameras on Hans Island that track all ice floes around 24/7 in summer and at least some of them in polar nights, supported by the moon or northern lights. These films can measure their freeboard, combined with sattelite images the area and thus the volume of the ice can be estimated.

And then finally, after everything has been installed, we are close to the BOE and Nares is almost ice-free year-round, because most of the ice melts already in the Lincoln Sea...  ;)

DrTskoul

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2005 on: July 03, 2019, 11:03:05 PM »
On a serious note, i can imagine a software that counts pixels floating down the strait. That would be a nice and ambitious programming job for someone ...

That will give you a pixel flux through Nares ( area or extent ) with poor thickness info

oren

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2006 on: July 03, 2019, 11:13:46 PM »
Actually there's a good thickness estimate from PIOMAS and Cryosat of around 3m, for the ice in the Lincoln Sea, typically old MYI. When an arch forms, newly frozen ice from the resulting polynia gets exported instead, so the algorithm should know to filter out this ice.

Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2007 on: July 04, 2019, 03:38:20 AM »
Animation of radar images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php

johnm33

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2008 on: July 04, 2019, 09:47:35 AM »
Disconcerting that the animation shows the ice as being too soft to maintain cracks.

Niall Dollard

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2009 on: July 04, 2019, 11:52:44 AM »
Decided to cross post this timelapse (from the wildlife thread) of the journey taken by the plucky arctic fox last year, from the west coast of Spitzbergen then east and north and over the top of the Fram and eventually crossed the Kane Basin before the arch collapsed !


https://giphy.com/gifs/Q67UV1IkG36cGlz1dd

« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 12:59:42 PM by Niall Dollard »

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2010 on: July 04, 2019, 03:52:07 PM »
Looks like the route a pesky illegal immigrant would take, to me, walking all the way, no doubt.  We've gotta get the Canadians to stop them at the northern border!  :o Except for a few Africans, of course, we or our ancestors were pesky immigrants our/themselves.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

SteveMDFP

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2011 on: July 04, 2019, 04:00:07 PM »
Looks like the route a pesky illegal immigrant would take, to me, walking all the way, no doubt.  We've gotta get the Canadians to stop them at the northern border!  :o Except for a few Africans, of course, we or our ancestors were pesky immigrants our/themselves.

Spitzbergen isn't sending their best foxes.
 ;)

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2012 on: July 04, 2019, 06:35:16 PM »
Huge, no Yuge, LOL.  :'(   Then I had to explain my outburst to my wife who was at the other end of our (not so very big) house, fox and all.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2013 on: July 05, 2019, 04:40:37 PM »
Animation of radar images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2014 on: July 05, 2019, 05:14:59 PM »
Tidal movement is greater today than usual. There also is a strongish (~40 km/h) wind helping.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2015 on: July 06, 2019, 10:25:52 AM »
Petermann land-fast ice degrading.

be cause

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2016 on: July 06, 2019, 10:34:59 AM »
No corner left to hide in .. b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2017 on: July 06, 2019, 03:58:07 PM »
Lincoln sea north west of greenland today. https://go.nasa.gov/32b1n46
slight contrast adjustment

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2018 on: July 06, 2019, 04:01:39 PM »
NS behaving weirdly. Looks like [1] the current has stopped again.

[1] my pet theory that when there is a current (north to south), floes are confined to the right side of the stream. And at the moment, there are no floes on that side.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2019 on: July 06, 2019, 04:36:24 PM »
Lincoln sea north west of greenland today. https://go.nasa.gov/32b1n46
slight contrast adjustment

Mostly rubble.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2020 on: July 06, 2019, 04:46:16 PM »
Lincoln sea north west of greenland today.

Are we looking at a current here?

Rich

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2021 on: July 06, 2019, 05:01:48 PM »
NS behaving weirdly. Looks like [1] the current has stopped again.

[1] my pet theory that when there is a current (north to south), floes are confined to the right side of the stream. And at the moment, there are no floes on that side.

Strong winds blowing straight up the chute again.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2022 on: July 06, 2019, 05:36:02 PM »
Yes, NW winds recently, strong(ish) only in peaks (40 km/h) though.

Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2023 on: July 06, 2019, 07:01:00 PM »
Animation of radar images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php

Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2024 on: July 07, 2019, 08:39:48 AM »
Animation of radar images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php

Just the last two days - July 5th and 6th

uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2025 on: July 07, 2019, 06:17:32 PM »
Symmetrical fracturing of land fast ice either side of Hall basin
Worldview aqua modis, jul4-7

Regarding Lincoln sea, I don't see evidence of atlantic current yet, only the effects of the heat with some possible upwelling.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2026 on: July 07, 2019, 07:08:14 PM »
Regarding Lincoln sea, I don't see evidence of atlantic current yet, only the effects of the heat with some possible upwelling.

Thanks, Uniquorn, sounds reasonable.

aperson99

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2027 on: July 07, 2019, 07:43:39 PM »
I wish there were satellite microphones so we could hear what we see ;) It must be tremendously loud.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2028 on: July 07, 2019, 10:00:18 PM »
Smooth, Aperson!  ;)

(Not Nares but floes floeing around)

« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 10:07:18 PM by b_lumenkraft »

TerryM

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2029 on: July 08, 2019, 06:25:39 AM »
The weaker northerly current hugs the Greenland side, while the much stronger southerly current stays to the Canadian side. The eddies/whirlpools spin anti-clockwise, all due to the Coriolis Force.
Terry

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2030 on: July 08, 2019, 02:55:49 PM »
New floes are entering the strait.

Is the current active again?

Or are floes pushed into it?

Looks like the later to me.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2031 on: July 08, 2019, 08:14:04 PM »
New floes are entering the strait.

Is the current active again?

Or are floes pushed into it?

Looks like the later to me.

Surface current is active

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2032 on: July 08, 2019, 08:28:05 PM »
Surface current is active

Hmmm, not so sure SH.


Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2033 on: July 09, 2019, 05:46:08 AM »
Animation of radar images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php

July 6-8. Click to animate.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2034 on: July 09, 2019, 11:50:08 AM »
Made a click to play GIF showing the upper strait movement since the 5th.

Doesn't look like a current to me.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2035 on: July 09, 2019, 12:00:32 PM »
Lower strait looks a little different though!

Click GIF to play.

Rich

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2036 on: July 09, 2019, 12:14:10 PM »
Headwinds at the entrance to Nares currently 25 knots +.

At the exit to Baffin 15-20 knots.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2037 on: July 09, 2019, 04:32:26 PM »
I would be very surprised if the subsurface current which flows south through the Nares ever shuts down. The phenomena that we are seeing is surface only where the winds will have an effect on the flow of ice.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2038 on: July 09, 2019, 04:55:40 PM »
I would be very surprised if the subsurface current which flows south through the Nares ever shuts down. The phenomena that we are seeing is surface only where the winds will have an effect on the flow of ice.

Sorry, SH, i should have said surface current. That's what i'm talking about.

Of course, when the surface current stops, that doesn't mean that it also stops deeper down.

But, that the surface current stoped, is pretty evident from the GIFs i provided for this and the recent event (upthread).

If you see a current, please tell me what to look for.

magnamentis

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2039 on: July 09, 2019, 07:46:24 PM »
Made a click to play GIF showing the upper strait movement since the 5th.

Doesn't look like a current to me.

the wind is blowing strongly up strait in the upper strait's nozzle ;)


Shared Humanity

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2040 on: July 09, 2019, 08:40:30 PM »
I would be very surprised if the subsurface current which flows south through the Nares ever shuts down. The phenomena that we are seeing is surface only where the winds will have an effect on the flow of ice.

Sorry, SH, i should have said surface current. That's what i'm talking about.

Of course, when the surface current stops, that doesn't mean that it also stops deeper down.

But, that the surface current stoped, is pretty evident from the GIFs i provided for this and the recent event (upthread).

If you see a current, please tell me what to look for.

Got it.

Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2041 on: July 11, 2019, 01:47:45 AM »
Animation of radar images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php
2019-07-07 through 2019-07-10
click to play

Espen

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2042 on: July 24, 2019, 06:05:14 PM »
For those of you who are so interested in congestion issues in Nares Strait, you should be looking up for loads of debris from several glaciers in the north, provided the ongoing melt situation:

Sankt Georg Fjord - Steensby Gletscher got a pretty big stock.

Sherard Osborne Fjord - Ryder Gletscher got some nice big ice cubes.

Victoria Fjord - C. H. Ostenfeldt Gletscher got some of those samples too.

J. P. Koch Fjord - Henson Gletscher got what is left.
Have a ice day!

JayW

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2043 on: July 27, 2019, 08:56:52 PM »
Stiff winds blowing down the Strait.
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uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2044 on: July 27, 2019, 09:37:24 PM »
Those shadows on Petermann had me worried for a minute.

philopek

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2045 on: July 27, 2019, 10:03:50 PM »
Stiff winds blowing down the Strait.

yep, up to 70km/h, not nothing indeed

oren

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2046 on: July 27, 2019, 10:07:03 PM »
Stiff winds blowing down the Strait.
Thanks AH. It's been a long while since this happened.

Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2047 on: July 27, 2019, 10:18:26 PM »
Stiff winds blowing down the Strait.
Thanks AH. It's been a long while since this happened.
That was JayW's video, not mine.

oren

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2048 on: July 28, 2019, 08:02:55 AM »
Thanks @JayW.
Lol @myself.

blumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #2049 on: July 28, 2019, 11:11:50 AM »
Nope. S from 22 > 23. S from 23 > 24 (obscured, have to look further south in the channel.) S from 24 > 25. S from  25 > 26. S from 26 > 27.

There is movement of floes in the channel, yes. But this doesn't mean there is a surface current.

The movement before the 26th is caused by tides pushing some floes southwards.

An indicator to look for when it comes to surface current in NS is the confinement of floes to the right side of the strait (if you go southwards). Not sure what's causing that exactly, but could have something to do with a hydraulic jump caused by Franklin.

In this GIF the cloudy days are skipped.
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