Author Topic: The Nares Strait thread (Read 997605 times)

Clenchie · « **Reply #2500 on:** June 24, 2021, 05:10:25 PM »

Judging by the state of the ice right along the strait it looks like it will go any day now.

be cause · « **Reply #2501 on:** June 26, 2021, 11:14:54 AM »

yesterday the entire Kennedy channel ice was mobile , so perhaps today ...

Niall Dollard · « **Reply #2502 on:** June 26, 2021, 12:17:03 PM »

A timely recall of our list of Nares Strait break up dates :

2007 - No arches formed.
2008 - June 10th
2009 - No southern arch. Northern arch broke around June 30th.
2010 - July 10th
2011 - July 5th.
2012 - June 30th.
2013 - July 10th.
2014 - June 20th.
2015 - July 5th.
2016 - June 30th
2017 - No southern arch. Northern arch broke around May 10th.
2018 - June 30th.
2019 - No arch
2020 - July 2nd

(Credit Oren for keeping this list going and I am using his date for the opening date in 2020)

Espen · « **Reply #2503 on:** June 27, 2021, 08:46:07 PM »

Very little solid ice left, northern part is now down to 70 km and and southern part about 80 km before the "Grand Opening", 2 days or max 3 days left.

Alphabet Hotel · « **Reply #2504 on:** June 27, 2021, 11:14:22 PM »

The ice at the entrance looks a bit cheesy…

Espen · « **Reply #2505 on:** June 30, 2021, 11:08:13 PM »

Nares Strait: The collapse of the Southern Gate is hours away and the Strait will soon be open at least up to Petermann Fjord:

Please click on image to enlarge and animate!

Tor Bejnar · « **Reply #2506 on:** July 01, 2021, 02:52:42 AM »

June 30 images from Sentinel Playgroud show cracks near the middle of the bridge in Kane Basin and along the Greenland shore.

I'd call that 'broken on 6/30'

oren · « **Reply #2507 on:** July 01, 2021, 07:50:52 AM »

Phew. I promised end of the month but it was a close call...

Quote from: Niall Dollard on June 26, 2021, 12:17:03 PM

A timely recall of our list of Nares Strait break up dates :

2007 - No arches formed.
2008 - June 10th
2009 - No southern arch. Northern arch broke around June 30th.
2010 - July 10th
2011 - July 5th.
2012 - June 30th.
2013 - July 10th.
2014 - June 20th.
2015 - July 5th.
2016 - June 30th
2017 - No southern arch. Northern arch broke around May 10th.
2018 - June 30th.
2019 - No arch
2020 - July 2nd

(Credit Oren for keeping this list going and I am using his date for the opening date in 2020)

Thanks for the reminder Niall, and we can add:
2021 - June 30th

Shared Humanity · « **Reply #2508 on:** July 01, 2021, 05:07:37 PM »

Quote from: oren on July 01, 2021, 07:50:52 AM

Phew. I promised end of the month but it was a close call...

Quote from: Niall Dollard on June 26, 2021, 12:17:03 PM
A timely recall of our list of Nares Strait break up dates :

2007 - No arches formed.
2008 - June 10th
2009 - No southern arch. Northern arch broke around June 30th.
2010 - July 10th
2011 - July 5th.
2012 - June 30th.
2013 - July 10th.
2014 - June 20th.
2015 - July 5th.
2016 - June 30th
2017 - No southern arch. Northern arch broke around May 10th.
2018 - June 30th.
2019 - No arch
2020 - July 2nd

(Credit Oren for keeping this list going and I am using his date for the opening date in 2020)
Thanks for the reminder Niall, and we can add:
2021 - June 30th

I think the ice needs to give way with a rush of ice down the strait for it to be properly called open for business.

oren · « **Reply #2509 on:** July 01, 2021, 06:16:44 PM »

Yeah you're right... I thought we had one more day, but the sat images from the 30th still have the arch more or less intact.

Tor Bejnar · « **Reply #2510 on:** July 01, 2021, 08:59:34 PM »

There are cracks showing on the Canadian side as well on June 30 (I just didn't look yesterday). For some reason, I cannot select a file (screen print) to attach.

gerontocrat · « **Reply #2511 on:** July 01, 2021, 10:44:52 PM »

Falling to bits but still intact

Images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/kane.uk.php

click gif to enlarge & start. Loops 6 times

oren · « **Reply #2512 on:** July 01, 2021, 11:07:57 PM »

Images from the 2nd should see it ripped to shreds. Or my (dis)reputation tarnished yet again.

Stumbi · « **Reply #2513 on:** July 02, 2021, 11:52:23 PM »

Image from the 2nd the arch is starting to crumble

oren · « **Reply #2514 on:** July 03, 2021, 12:33:45 AM »

I cannot post an animation ATM but the northern part crumbled, and the rest of the arch moved forward, not by much but still meaningfully.
In my book this goes down as broken on July 2nd. It held longer than I naively thought it would, and hit the same breakup date as 2020.

Shared Humanity · « **Reply #2515 on:** July 03, 2021, 04:07:38 AM »

Quote from: oren on July 03, 2021, 12:33:45 AM

I cannot post an animation ATM but the northern part crumbled, and the rest of the arch moved forward, not by much but still meaningfully.
In my book this goes down as broken on July 2nd. It held longer than I naively thought it would, and hit the same breakup date as 2020.

That last gif you posted clearly shows the arch shattering.

gerontocrat · « **Reply #2516 on:** July 03, 2021, 12:34:09 PM »

Mount St Helens moved before it blew up?

click gif to start & enlarge. Then click maximise. Plays 6 times

oren · « **Reply #2517 on:** July 03, 2021, 01:44:11 PM »

A Worldview animation, using Aqua images with 2 day increments, pardon the clouds but the movement of the whole front and the shattering of the upper part is quite visible.

Click to animate.

Niall Dollard · « **Reply #2518 on:** July 03, 2021, 02:12:16 PM »

Kane Basin on 1st and 2nd July. There is some SW movement noticeable on the Canadian side but very little on the Greenland side.

Click to run

Shared Humanity · « **Reply #2519 on:** July 03, 2021, 07:55:26 PM »

Which way are the winds blowing?

gerontocrat · « **Reply #2520 on:** July 04, 2021, 05:54:51 PM »

Damaged, bits missing but the Arch is still there.

oren · « **Reply #2521 on:** July 04, 2021, 06:31:57 PM »

In my book, if it looks like a arch but moves (starting Jul 2nd) unlike an arch, it's not an arch, but it depends on the definition of course.

Click to animate and zoom.

Freegrass · « **Reply #2522 on:** July 04, 2021, 06:41:26 PM »

Quote from: oren on July 04, 2021, 06:31:57 PM

In my book, if it looks like a arch but moves (starting Jul 2nd) unlike an arch, it's not an arch, but it depends on the definition of course.

Click to animate and zoom.

It looks like the wind is blowing all the ice in Nares northwards. Once the wind turns - in one or two days from now - the ice should break up and start flowing out south.

gerontocrat · « **Reply #2523 on:** July 06, 2021, 07:22:40 PM »

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/kane.uk.php

Ok, it's busted.

click gif to start. Click maximise for full size. Runs 6 times

gerontocrat · « **Reply #2524 on:** July 07, 2021, 08:06:45 PM »

The next gif will probably be watching a lot of ice exiting left

grixm · « **Reply #2525 on:** July 07, 2021, 08:21:38 PM »

The lower arc is indeed broken, but what about this little upstream part? Seems to hold strong to me, ice is not flowing.

Tor Bejnar · « **Reply #2526 on:** July 07, 2021, 09:01:31 PM »

Good catch, Grixm! Looking 'close' with Sentinel Playground (July 6), looks pretty set.

I would have thought the ever-advancing glacial tongue in Petermann Fjord would tend to stress/crack the ice in the Kennedy Channel - Hall Basin area. I guess not this year. Maybe it's compressed (slightly) and thus 'tempered'?

gerontocrat · « **Reply #2527 on:** July 07, 2021, 09:54:50 PM »

Quote from: Tor Bejnar on July 07, 2021, 09:01:31 PM

Good catch, Grixm! Looking 'close' with Sentinel Playground (July 6), looks pretty set.

I would have thought the ever-advancing glacial tongue in Petermann Fjord would tend to stress/crack the ice in the Kennedy Channel - Hall Basin area. I guess not this year. Maybe it's compressed (slightly) and thus 'tempered'?

If nothing else there has been significant melt up there from about the Summer Solstice. Must be significant melt water into the Nares?

If so, being fresh water, might only partially melt the sea ice and then freeze?

click to start, runs 6 times.

oren · « **Reply #2528 on:** July 08, 2021, 02:36:47 PM »

Quote from: oren on July 01, 2021, 07:50:52 AM

Phew. I promised end of the month but it was a close call...

Quote from: Niall Dollard on June 26, 2021, 12:17:03 PM
A timely recall of our list of Nares Strait break up dates :

2007 - No arches formed.
2008 - June 10th
2009 - No southern arch. Northern arch broke around June 30th.
2010 - July 10th
2011 - July 5th.
2012 - June 30th.
2013 - July 10th.
2014 - June 20th.
2015 - July 5th.
2016 - June 30th
2017 - No southern arch. Northern arch broke around May 10th.
2018 - June 30th.
2019 - No arch
2020 - July 2nd

(Credit Oren for keeping this list going and I am using his date for the opening date in 2020)
Thanks for the reminder Niall, and we can add:
2021 - June 30th

After some bungling, my updated list is:
2007 - No arches formed.
2008 - June 10th
2009 - No southern arch. Northern arch broke around June 30th.
2010 - July 10th
2011 - July 5th.
2012 - June 30th.
2013 - July 10th.
2014 - June 20th.
2015 - July 5th.
2016 - June 30th
2017 - No southern arch. Northern arch broke around May 10th.
2018 - June 30th.
2019 - No arch
2020 - July 2nd
2021 - July 2nd

Bear in mind some of the earlier dates are rounded and the whole lot is a bit subjective. There was a paper somewhere upthread that contained scientific opinion of closure and breakup dates.

P.S If the rare middle arch near Petermann proves to be resilient, this list will need some editing still.

oren · « **Reply #2529 on:** July 12, 2021, 12:19:29 PM »

The middle arch gave a respectable showing, but broke on the 11th.

Espen · « **Reply #2530 on:** July 12, 2021, 02:20:29 PM »

Nares Strait: The northern arch gave up:

Shared Humanity · « **Reply #2531 on:** July 12, 2021, 07:26:14 PM »

Still some large sheets of ice. May take a little while for the strait to clear. Depends on whether the ice fractures easily.

romett1 · « **Reply #2532 on:** July 12, 2021, 10:17:06 PM »

Latest on RAMMB. NB! 12MB file.

gerontocrat · « **Reply #2533 on:** July 14, 2021, 10:12:35 PM »

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/kennedy.uk.php

Impressive opening up of Kennedy including into the Lincoln Sea (see top right)

uniquorn · « **Reply #2534 on:** July 22, 2021, 10:47:23 PM »

rammb of recent drift. Note the large floe close to Petermann and the possible iceberg at the entrance to the strait.
https://col.st/vEzky 7MB

Shared Humanity · « **Reply #2535 on:** July 23, 2021, 01:46:39 PM »

Still little if any export through the strait to the Barents.

johnm33 · « **Reply #2536 on:** July 23, 2021, 02:08:45 PM »

Baffin

oren · « **Reply #2537 on:** July 23, 2021, 04:02:51 PM »

Yeah it appears this year the winds are mostly blowing up the strait.

Shared Humanity · « **Reply #2538 on:** July 23, 2021, 11:39:55 PM »

Quote from: johnm33 on July 23, 2021, 02:08:45 PM

Baffin

Baffin to you as well.

NotaDenier · « **Reply #2539 on:** September 13, 2021, 02:31:52 AM »

I think Elsen has alluded to this already but Canada and Denmark argue over who owns Hans Island.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/hans-island-dispute.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island

Whereas many people are familiar with famous territorial disputes, be it Taiwan, Kosovo, or Crimea, there exists one battle which has eluded widespread awareness.

Both Canada and Denmark are known for their peaceful and democratic nature; one does not think of them as nations prone to saber-rattling. Despite this, Canada and Denmark have shared a territorial dispute for almost a century. At the center of this dispute is a small outcropping known as Hans Island.

The dispute over Hans Island is genuine, having soured Danish-Canadian relations for decades and remains unresolved to this day. This war of words (and whiskey – more on that later) over control of a tiny portion of the vast High Arctic, remains a key point in bilateral relations.

icy voyeur2 · « **Reply #2540 on:** September 13, 2021, 06:47:32 AM »

Quote from: NotaDenier on September 13, 2021, 02:31:52 AM

I think Elsen has alluded to this already but Canada and Denmark argue over who owns Hans Island.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island
...
The dispute over Hans Island is genuine, having soured Danish-Canadian relations for decades and remains unresolved to this day. This war of words (and whiskey – more on that later) ...

Not to be pre-emptive, but I would hate to see sour Canadian::Danish relations. Can other concerned individuals offer shares of whiskey with Danes and Canucks to ease the tensions? I might be willing to offer myself in sacrifice to lubricate the cause of international harmony.

Freegrass · « **Reply #2541 on:** September 13, 2021, 08:12:14 AM »

Quote from: icy voyeur2 on September 13, 2021, 06:47:32 AM

Quote from: NotaDenier on September 13, 2021, 02:31:52 AM
I think Elsen has alluded to this already but Canada and Denmark argue over who owns Hans Island.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island
...
The dispute over Hans Island is genuine, having soured Danish-Canadian relations for decades and remains unresolved to this day. This war of words (and whiskey – more on that later) ...

Not to be pre-emptive, but I would hate to see sour Canadian::Danish relations. Can other concerned individuals offer shares of whiskey with Danes and Canucks to ease the tensions? I might be willing to offer myself in sacrifice to lubricate the cause of international harmony.

This is another fine example of the stupidity of man... When children fight over the last cookie, mother breaks it in half...

icy voyeur2 · « **Reply #2542 on:** September 13, 2021, 09:15:06 AM »

Quote from: Freegrass on September 13, 2021, 08:12:14 AM

Quote from: icy voyeur2 on September 13, 2021, 06:47:32 AM
Quote from: NotaDenier on September 13, 2021, 02:31:52 AM
I think Elsen has alluded to this already but Canada and Denmark argue over who owns Hans Island.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island
...
The dispute over Hans Island is genuine, having soured Danish-Canadian relations for decades and remains unresolved to this day. This war of words (and whiskey – more on that later) ...

Not to be pre-emptive, but I would hate to see sour Canadian::Danish relations. Can other concerned individuals offer shares of whiskey with Danes and Canucks to ease the tensions? I might be willing to offer myself in sacrifice to lubricate the cause of international harmony.
This is another fine example of the stupidity of man... When children fight over the last cookie, mother b
reaks it in halve...

PS Halve is a verb. To halve something is to break it in half.
You don't break something in halve. You break something in half. Half is a noun. I always find it interesting that ignorance of language accompanies ignorant attitudes and opinions. Why someone irrationally decides to be insulting out of nowhere is its own microverse. It often speaks for itself.

<I rather doubt Freegrass was insulting you. In any case, back on topic please. O>

blu_ice · « **Reply #2543 on:** September 13, 2021, 10:11:41 AM »

Please remember all of us aren’t native English speakers. Sorry spelling mistakes do happen.

Freegrass is right though. Why not draw a line in the middle of the island? Then both parties can have their half of this wonderful real estate.

Espen · « **Reply #2544 on:** September 13, 2021, 10:58:47 AM »

Fighting about Hans Ø make no sense since the island is placed exactly in the middle of international waters and with very special rules when it comes to international straits, so it can only be a question of stupid national "pride", nothing else!

oren · « **Reply #2545 on:** September 13, 2021, 11:11:32 AM »

There used to be an "Arctic weather station" on Hans Island, with temperature and other parameters published online, which was quite useful, but the data is no longer updated. Does anyone know what happened? First victim of the war...?

dataservices.sams.ac.uk/aws/

Freegrass · « **Reply #2546 on:** September 13, 2021, 03:35:21 PM »

Quote from: icy voyeur2 on September 13, 2021, 09:15:06 AM

Quote from: Freegrass on September 13, 2021, 08:12:14 AM
Quote from: icy voyeur2 on September 13, 2021, 06:47:32 AM
Quote from: NotaDenier on September 13, 2021, 02:31:52 AM
I think Elsen has alluded to this already but Canada and Denmark argue over who owns Hans Island.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Island
...
The dispute over Hans Island is genuine, having soured Danish-Canadian relations for decades and remains unresolved to this day. This war of words (and whiskey – more on that later) ...

Not to be pre-emptive, but I would hate to see sour Canadian::Danish relations. Can other concerned individuals offer shares of whiskey with Danes and Canucks to ease the tensions? I might be willing to offer myself in sacrifice to lubricate the cause of international harmony.
This is another fine example of the stupidity of man... When children fight over the last cookie, mother b
reaks it in halve...

PS Halve is a verb. To halve something is to break it in half.
You don't break something in halve. You break something in half. Half is a noun. I always find it interesting that ignorance of language accompanies ignorant attitudes and opinions. Why someone irrationally decides to be insulting out of nowhere is its own microverse. It often speaks for itself.

<I rather doubt Freegrass was insulting you. In any case, back on topic please. O>

I had no idea that an honest spelling error could be insulting...

Quote

Halve is a verb and means “divide into two equal or roughly equal parts.”

Freegrass · « **Reply #2547 on:** September 13, 2021, 03:38:12 PM »

Quote from: Espen on September 13, 2021, 10:58:47 AM

Fighting about Hans Ø make no sense since the island is placed exactly in the middle of international waters and with very special rules when it comes to international straits, so it can only be a question of stupid national "pride", nothing else!

Exactly! But most likely its about the possibility that there may be something valuable in the ground... It's pure greed!

Niall Dollard · « **Reply #2548 on:** September 13, 2021, 07:32:48 PM »

A recent clear view of Hans (29th August 2021)

Sebastian Jones · « **Reply #2549 on:** September 14, 2021, 09:02:22 PM »

Canadians, and, I'm equally sure, Danes, view this 'dispute' with affectionate amusement.
The chances of there ever being martial, commercial or even diplomatic weapons drawn are zero

News:

Author Topic: The Nares Strait thread (Read 997605 times)