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Author Topic: The Nares Strait thread  (Read 589616 times)

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1550 on: April 17, 2019, 05:38:20 PM »
Quote
The Nares Strait is, I believe, bordered by extremely hard limestones and dolomites.
This is "true" as far as it goes. 
Here is a partial 'grab' of rock types associated with each group of formations identified on first map from Denmark (yes, lots of dolomite, some of it 'hard') [some great photographs showing examples of outcrops]:
  • ‘Ellesmere Island – Inglefield Land belt’:  used to describe occurrences of the same gneiss, supracrustal and igneous suites on both sides of Smith Sound (Dawes 1988).
  • The Thule Basin is defined by a thick sedimentary-volcanic succession.  K-Ar ages of 676 and 627 Ma
  • Palaeozoic Franklinian Basin
    • Dallas Bugt Formation: Red to purple-brown arkosic sandstones with con-glomerates form the basal strata, overlain by white to pale yellow weathering, crossbedded sandstones, and topped by finer grained sandstones interbedded with green bioturbated mudstones
    • Humboldt Formation: basal fluvial sandstones and conglomerates, are succeeded by cross-bedded, bioturbated, shallow marine clastics of tidal origin, with the upper interbedded sandstone and mudstone
    • Ryder Gletscher Group: carbonate and siliciclastic deposits:  cliff-forming dolomites, crossstratified dolomites, hard grey dolomite, grey dolomites, with some thin silty horizons, mottled lime mudstones with silty laminations and horizons, together with dolomite-filled burrows and small mounds, locally dolomitised burrowed lime mudstones and minor conglomerates with some interbeds of grey, often glauconitic, calcareous finegrained sandstones; in the south-west glauconitic sandstones and siltstones dominate, with some more resistant limestone beds, uniform and hard, locally dolomitised oolitic limestone, bedded platy lime mudstone with silty laminae, and laterally extensive beds of intraformational flat-pebble conglomerate, massive thin bedded dolomites, stromatolitic mounds, siltstones and bituminous limestones, grainstones and white, brown-weathering sandstones, cliff-forming, burrow-mottled, grey lime mudstones with subordinate intermixed stromatolitic to thrombolitic limestones, sponge mounds and flat-pebble conglomerates, shaly dolomites, laminated lime mudstones and shales with both algal and wave-formed lamination, and dolomitic sandstones. Conspicuous beds of laminated to massive anhydrite and gypsum.
    • Morris Bugt Group: cliff-forming dolomitic limestones, with one distinctive recessive argillaceous unit
    • Washington Land Group: reef-derived deposits, lime mudstones, dolomitic limestones, dolomites and resedimented limestone conglomerates, together with subsidiary siltstones and shales.
    • Peary Land Group: siltstone and sandstone turbidites

The second map is from a Geologic Map of the Arctic from Canada with a few place names added in red.  A plate-boundary transverse fault (with complications) runs through the Strait.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 05:58:05 PM by Tor Bejnar »
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1551 on: April 17, 2019, 05:42:05 PM »
Great job pivoting on topic again Tor. Well done and thanks for the infos. ;)

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1552 on: April 18, 2019, 12:27:19 PM »
The way to calculate the high of a tide at any given point uses the "Rule of 12th.

The rule states that over the first period the quantity increases by 1/12. Then in the second period by 2/12, in the third by 3/12, in the fourth by 3/12, fifth by 2/12 and at the end of the sixth period reaches its maximum with an increase of 1/12. The steps are 1:2:3:3:2:1 giving a total change of 12/12. Over the next six intervals the quantity reduces in a similar manner by 1, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1 twelfths.





Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1553 on: April 18, 2019, 06:48:08 PM »
The 'nose' of the largest floe to enter Nares Strait recently is going faster than its tail.  The nose section moved nearly 50 km in one day, while the tail moved 10 km less [i.e., it broke].  (The little island next to the nose, by the way, is Joe Is. [map]  Hans Is. is nearly 70 km downstream, and the channel's width between Hans Is. and the side of Judge Daly Promontory (Elsmere Is.) appears to be less than the width of the nose at its widest.  The tail, of course, is wider still.)

Edit: Floes in Kane Basin and Smith Sound moved 45-50 km between April 16 and 17 DMI images (not pictured).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 06:58:57 PM by Tor Bejnar »
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1554 on: April 19, 2019, 04:35:27 PM »
The 'nose' was just past Hans Island yesterday (per DMI's images) (70 km in '1 day'!), a little rounder than it was the day before, as it was slightly too big to fit past Hans Is.  The 'tail' has further broken into smaller floes.
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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1555 on: April 20, 2019, 07:46:23 AM »
The cracks from the Atlantic side have grown quite a bit and are now meeting the NS arch.

uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1556 on: April 20, 2019, 11:29:06 AM »
worldview viirsbt15n apr15 and 20.
added NOAA bathymetry
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 11:53:11 AM by uniquorn »

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1557 on: April 20, 2019, 02:23:22 PM »
The 'nose' was just past Hans Island yesterday (per DMI's images) (70 km in '1 day'!), a little rounder than it was the day before, as it was slightly too big to fit past Hans Is.  The 'tail' has further broken into smaller floes.

It is clear that the floes entering the Nares now do not have the structural integrity that they had a decade ago. They are thinner MYI ice knitted together with even thinner FYI.

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1558 on: April 22, 2019, 08:56:50 AM »
Closeup of tidal movement in the Rammb Slider thread >>


uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1559 on: April 22, 2019, 01:34:17 PM »
Closeup of tidal movement in the Rammb Slider thread
Thanks, so maybe  >0.5m tide and surge is enough to refracture fragile attempts at arches further out with the ice in this state.

uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1560 on: April 22, 2019, 08:32:30 PM »
This animation cycles through mercator salinity(model) at 0m, 34m, 92m and 318m for jan1-apr21 centring on the nares/lincoln. Cooled, mixed atlantic water from the north on the atlantic side inhibiting the flow towards Lincoln sea of fresher water from the west. Turbulence at entry to the Nares causing mixing all the way down to 318m. Water leaving the Kane basin at 318m is fresher than at entry to the Nares. At 0m and 34m more saline. (If the model is correct)
Perhaps high tides push mixed water that is warmer and more saline back into the Lincoln?

btw do these mp4 work for mac?

miki

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1561 on: April 22, 2019, 08:39:31 PM »
btw do these mp4 work for mac?

Yes, I'm seeing them perfectly on -> Mac - Mac OS Sierra - Google Chrome browser.
Thanks, uniquorn.

uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1562 on: April 22, 2019, 08:43:19 PM »
Sleepy did the hard work. I just copied and pasted ;)

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1563 on: April 23, 2019, 02:58:09 PM »
Huge big crack on the north-west of the arch.

I don't really see exactly where it ends at the moment due to clouds but looks like it's going all the way to Laptev.

Click GIF to play GIF

uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1564 on: April 23, 2019, 04:20:54 PM »
Huge big crack on the north-west of the arch.
Nares probably over reaching itself with that one. Catchment area likely to be the arches if Fram doesn't make claim to them.
We must be exporting the alleged 3.5m thick ice by now. Perhaps the 2 new 'big chunks'

tech note: clahe and unsharp mask used on this to highlight fractures. https://go.nasa.gov/2USrvRw

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1565 on: April 23, 2019, 04:37:07 PM »
Huge big crack on the north-west of the arch.
Nares probably over reaching itself with that one.
...
It looks like Nares wants to export not just 10% of what the Fram exports, but wants to export 10% of the entire CAB.  Yes, probably an overreach.    :)
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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1566 on: April 23, 2019, 04:39:29 PM »
Almost rude!

;D


uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1567 on: April 23, 2019, 09:07:35 PM »
HapHazard must be psychic. Here is a dotty idea for Nares.
NOAA bathymetry overlaid onto ascat day95-107 with dots running down Lomonosov ridge. 7days/sec.
edit:scale doesn't apply as overlay changes hues but blue=deep, green=mid, sepia=shallow
No idea if any sort of wave moves at that speed hence dotty.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 09:17:32 PM by uniquorn »

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1568 on: April 24, 2019, 05:47:15 PM »
A new toy!  GIFMaker.org
I stitched three DMI Sentinel images together (not perfectly, alas) for each of 2 dates, added dates (text) and 3 pairs of dots (on identifiable floes) all using Snagit (which is on my computer), then downloaded the two resultant images into GIFMaker (slowed it down to 1.1 sec), cropped the GIF size, used "Level 1 Optimization" and reduced to 75 colors (cutting file size almost in half).
A click will make it move (in a new window)!

Kane and Hall Basin floes are moving much faster than those in the Lincoln Sea (as 'always') (57, 43 and 7 km/'day', respectively).  (For scale, Petermann Fjord is 15 km wide.)
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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1569 on: April 25, 2019, 09:04:53 AM »
Perhaps the 2 new 'big chunks'

First one is a perfect fit!  :D

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1570 on: April 25, 2019, 09:21:35 AM »
Kane fast ice degrading further.

22.04. vs 24.04.

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1571 on: April 25, 2019, 10:48:07 AM »
First one is a perfect fit!  :D

This is the same floe in a video showing yesterdays movement. First a tidal wave and then it goes woosh. Quite mesmerizing to look at in this ping pong GIF.

oren

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1572 on: April 25, 2019, 11:50:25 AM »
It is also rotating, possibly after hitting the Ellesmere side.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1573 on: April 25, 2019, 11:56:07 AM »
Oh, right Oren. Good catch. :)

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1574 on: April 25, 2019, 12:43:44 PM »
The arch makes an expanding move towards the Atlantic side (leaving the 'triangle' untouched).

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1575 on: April 25, 2019, 06:02:30 PM »
B_,
Are you talking about the Lincoln Sea Polynya expanding eastward (in the north) between April 23 and 24?  Its boundary has been further east than it is now (this winter), but the boundary has frequently been further west (or even south).  The "triangle", I presume, is the triangle of ice northwest of Greenland between ice flowing towards Nares Strait and ice flowing towards Fram Strait.  (Images from DMI)
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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1576 on: April 25, 2019, 06:06:25 PM »
Correct! Uniquorn pointed this triangle out some time ago.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1577 on: April 25, 2019, 06:37:03 PM »
So much about an untouched triangle.

Latest pic (12:01 UTC) showing it to crack.

uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1578 on: April 25, 2019, 07:05:12 PM »
So much about an untouched triangle.
I assume that's a brightness temperature image. Expansion well after full pink moon so likely there are other influences. The triangle ice is alleged to be thick so it will be interesting to see if it resists.

Nares is winning the export competition in the Lincoln at the moment with the catchment area extending to the white line for now. A small movement south over the last day with the shear lines holding.
I'm looking forward to seeing a time stamp or dates on your cropped animations :)
Worldview viirsbt15n, apr24-25

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1579 on: April 25, 2019, 07:11:08 PM »
I assume that's a brightness temperature image.

This is Band I5 Longwave IR Window

Quote
I'm looking forward to seeing a time stamp or dates on your cropped animations :)

Sure thing! Totally forgot about it.  ::)

uniquorn

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1580 on: April 25, 2019, 11:31:41 PM »
I think I go back to my first idea but taking the more direct route...
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,176.msg186710.html#msg186710

worldview terra modis apr25 with NOAA bathymetry
Perhaps the ice is thinner now and we can see it better. edit: I've a feeling the CAA sieve (aka garlic press) will stay active later this year.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 11:57:55 PM by uniquorn »

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1581 on: April 26, 2019, 06:32:44 PM »
Today 13:23 UTC

A storm went over the arch and now that the clouds are clearing, you see cracks on the east of the arc cutting right through the triangle.

GAWLab

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1582 on: April 26, 2019, 09:05:56 PM »
Hello all, thought I would introduce myself.  I've been following this thread with a great deal of curiosity since I found it about a month ago, in lieu of the great breakup of March 20th.  I'm the operator of the Dr. Neil Trivett Global Atmosphere Watch Observatory in Alert, NU, so I've been watching all of this ice movement first-hand.  It's been a very different winter this year with a lot of fog and precipitation thanks to all the open water immediately offshore.

Here's a view a little different from the satellite imagery you usually get to see, taken a moment ago from the top of our instrument tower at the lab.

- Kevin
- Kevin
Operator, Dr. Neil Trivett Global Atmosphere Watch Observatory
Alert, NU

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1583 on: April 26, 2019, 09:20:09 PM »
15:06 UTC

New hour, new crack. This time alongside the Greenland coastline. This is getting ridiculous.

Niall Dollard

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1584 on: April 26, 2019, 11:32:48 PM »
Hello all, thought I would introduce myself.  I've been following this thread with a great deal of curiosity since I found it about a month ago, in lieu of the great breakup of March 20th.  I'm the operator of the Dr. Neil Trivett Global Atmosphere Watch Observatory in Alert, NU, so I've been watching all of this ice movement first-hand.  It's been a very different winter this year with a lot of fog and precipitation thanks to all the open water immediately offshore.

Here's a view a little different from the satellite imagery you usually get to see, taken a moment ago from the top of our instrument tower at the lab.

- Kevin

Welcome to the Arctic Sea Ice Forum, Kevin

We love to have your pictures - as you say it gives a different perspective.

The Nares Strait has been flowing steadily this year. There is a huge difference when the arch does not form in the strait.

Do you mind if I ask you what is the building over to the left of the picture ?

GAWLab

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1585 on: April 26, 2019, 11:52:16 PM »
Welcome to the Arctic Sea Ice Forum, Kevin

We love to have your pictures - as you say it gives a different perspective.

The Nares Strait has been flowing steadily this year. There is a huge difference when the arch does not form in the strait.

Do you mind if I ask you what is the building over to the left of the picture ?
Thanks Niall!

That building is known around these parts as the old transmitter building.  Once upon a time it held an assortment of HF transmitters that CFS Alert used to communicate with the south, but since the advent of the microwave repeater system and satellite link, it's been emptied out and turned into unheated storage for our miscellaneous pieces of junk: mostly equipment cases and construction materials.
- Kevin
Operator, Dr. Neil Trivett Global Atmosphere Watch Observatory
Alert, NU

oren

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1586 on: April 27, 2019, 01:10:26 AM »
Welcome Kevin. It's always interesting to hear from those who actually get to experience and research the Arctic directly.
This thread is a useful resource for the Nares behavior  in years past as well.

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1587 on: April 27, 2019, 03:12:34 AM »
The north of greenland triangle of fast ice just broke up. If the forecast for the next 5 days is accurate, a lot of this ice will be displaced and some will head into fram. The whole area is mobile and weak.
big time oops

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1588 on: April 27, 2019, 06:53:22 AM »
watching all of this ice movement first-hand.

I do envy you, Kevin!

Hello and welcome to the forum. Glad to have you.

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1589 on: April 27, 2019, 07:10:52 AM »
Fatal crash in Nares Strait. Police looking for witnesses.

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1590 on: April 27, 2019, 07:25:21 AM »
Just want to say thanks to the regular posters in this thread, especially b_lumenkraft and uniquorn. I'm still learning how to make sense of all of this, but this is one heck of a classroom with all the video and images you guys provide. Thanks!

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1591 on: April 27, 2019, 07:30:29 AM »
So this one is interesting!

I reported a crack along the Greenland coastline yesterday. In this GIF you can see how this morning (01:15h UTC) the crack closed again.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i would say this is obviously tidal movement.

Last night's horizontal tidal movement was very low with only 23cm. The vertical movement is immense though. Also, note the movement of floes in the strait.

GIF showing 24.04 08:38h to 27.04.01:15h UTC

Edit: On second thought, could also be the result of the storm perhaps? Changing air pressure?
(Click GIF to play GIF)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 07:36:20 AM by b_lumenkraft »

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1592 on: April 27, 2019, 07:39:34 AM »
Thanks!

You are most welcome Wdmn. I'm very glad you like my content. :)

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1593 on: April 27, 2019, 09:52:12 AM »
This is the latest satellite picture (04:38h UTC), I5 Band. I pimped it a little contrast wise.

This is the new shape of the arch (for the next hour or so).

(North is left)

oren

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1594 on: April 27, 2019, 11:08:48 AM »
Re the "triangle", I think the crack was due to the wind pulling the ice away from the coast, with the prevailing current pushing the ice back into place. But structurally it's not fast ice and could potentially be swept away.
Last year (or maybe the one before) I watched it through the whole summer, and most times it tends to drift back and forth, but sometimes when the movement over several days happens to be in one direction, a large piece may exit the shelter and be swept west into the Nares catchment area, or east past Kap Morris Jesup and bye bye through the Fram. It's mostly the luck of a random walk, plus sustained wind directions.
This year as it seems to be cracking earlier than normal, and with the Nares open since March instead of June, there is the potential of a lot of that triangle ice to be exported, which could make a difference for the melting season outcome.
For our resident expert animators, I suggest an animation over several months in 2018 (and other years?) zooming on this triangle and its immediate exits. It should be highly educational.
P.s. Having done some animations in the past, I know how time consuming it is so my heartfelt thanks for all the amazing stuff here and elsewhere.

oren

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1595 on: April 27, 2019, 11:15:17 AM »
Here's an example from upthread of what I mean, by the late A-Team while he was still active in the forum.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,176.msg137676.html#msg137676

Edit: apologies for using inappropriate and incorrect language... I guess I am still sad that A-Team left the forum.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 07:41:42 PM by oren »

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1596 on: April 27, 2019, 09:18:38 PM »
Looks like a big floe has blocked the channel. I wonder how long this will last.

Click to animate.

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1597 on: April 28, 2019, 12:28:38 AM »
Looks like a big floe has blocked the channel. I wonder how long this will last.


Probably no time at all. The "blockage" is likely already floating back into the lincoln sea due to local winds. The nares ice shoot should resume shortly. Even the big blocks of ice are not strong enough to plug the whole this year. Which should be expected considering all the old ice finished melting/exporting last year.
big time oops

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1598 on: April 28, 2019, 02:53:47 AM »
Re the "triangle", I think the crack was due to the wind pulling the ice away from the coast, with the prevailing current pushing the ice back into place.

After watching it like 85 times, i tend to agree. :)

Here's an example from upthread of what I mean, by the late A-Team while he was still active in the forum.

Wow, that is one great GIF! Thanks for the link Oren.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1599 on: April 28, 2019, 02:59:21 AM »
Looks like a big floe has blocked the channel. I wonder how long this will last.

Currently, there are two blockages even. Directly at the entrance and this big floe, you pointed out Bairgon. My guess is they will come loose with the next tidal wave.