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Author Topic: The Nares Strait thread  (Read 589979 times)

ArcticMelt2

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1800 on: June 03, 2019, 03:57:13 AM »
A very large ice floe is heading for the entrance to the Strait. I hope it can block the Strait and slow down the destruction of elder ice.

Rich

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1801 on: June 03, 2019, 04:16:05 AM »
A very large ice floe is heading for the entrance to the Strait. I hope it can block the Strait and slow down the destruction of elder ice.

It's certainly big  enough that it won't fit through in one piece.

Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1802 on: June 03, 2019, 04:30:27 AM »
A very large ice floe is heading for the entrance to the Strait. I hope it can block the Strait and slow down the destruction of elder ice.

I've been watching that one for a while on the radar animations. It's easy to spot because it has two jagged dark lines across it, which I assume are cracks hidden by snow.


ArcticMelt2

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1803 on: June 03, 2019, 04:46:39 AM »
A very large ice floe is heading for the entrance to the Strait. I hope it can block the Strait and slow down the destruction of elder ice.

I've been watching that one for a while on the radar animations. It's easy to spot because it has two jagged dark lines across it, which I assume are cracks hidden by snow.

If there were cracks, the ice would have already disintegrated on optical images. Rather, it means that in the past years the ice floe fell apart, and then again it froze into one.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1804 on: June 03, 2019, 09:09:21 AM »
For the record, the month of May.

At this point, there is no pronounces arch anymore. In the Lincoln Sea, all ice is cracked into smallish floes. Theoretically, anything here can (and will) float out via Nares Strait sooner or later.

(Click to play)

Rich

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1805 on: June 03, 2019, 10:58:57 AM »
What are the most common months for Nares to be open in a given year?

oren

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1806 on: June 03, 2019, 11:06:14 AM »
We have good stats upthread, but normally it gets stuck around January-February and breaks up around end-June.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1807 on: June 03, 2019, 11:24:35 AM »
What are the most common months for Nares to be open in a given year?

I think this post gives a great overview of recent years.

A zoom on the Nares Strait using AMSR2 data 2013-2019.

https://twitter.com/seaice_de/status/1125354599282610177


b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1808 on: June 03, 2019, 11:34:36 AM »
Rather, it means that in the past years the ice floe fell apart, and then again it froze into one.

Entirely possible. Or it's refrozen melt ponds. I don't think anyone is sure about that here. (Please, please correct me if i'm wrong, i wanna know!)

bluice

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1809 on: June 03, 2019, 11:38:00 AM »

I think this post gives a great overview of recent years.

A zoom on the Nares Strait using AMSR2 data 2013-2019.

https://twitter.com/seaice_de/status/1125354599282610177
Great time lapse gif, couple of intelligent comments and a batshit crazy conspiracy theorist. Don’t we all just love the social media?  ;D

Regarding Nares, I doubt the latest big floe has better chances to stay in one piece than the recently polled big chunk of ice.An ice floe in Nares has snowball’s chances in hell, or vice versa.
In PIOMAS we trust

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1810 on: June 03, 2019, 05:12:32 PM »
Tidal waves becoming more pronounced these days.

(Click GIF to play)

FrostKing70

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1811 on: June 03, 2019, 06:50:49 PM »
This was posted in the 2019 melting season thread, but thought it would be a good fit here, as well.

https://cryospherecomputing.tk/SIT.html

Watch the ice melt out south of the Nares Strait in a few days!

Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1812 on: June 04, 2019, 11:05:15 PM »
Animation from DMI's Sentinel-1 ASAR Lincoln Sea images. May 27-Jun 04
Images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php

Niall Dollard

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1813 on: June 06, 2019, 02:05:31 AM »
There is a brief paragraph on Nares/Lincoln Sea Arches in the latest Arctic Sea Ice News from NSIDC.

It mentions years of early arch breakup and mentions the year 2008. This is not correct. 2008 was the year with a late arch formation. The first arch formed unusually late around April 1st 2008 (a possible hangover from the big melt in 2007 ?)

A second arch formed downstream circa April 20th.

Both arches held on until early June.

2008 was a short arch season but a breakup occurring in early June would be pretty typical (and thus not an early breakup). 

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1814 on: June 06, 2019, 11:38:59 AM »
Re: Interpreting the radar pictures:

Here is a crude comparison of the same floe, radar vs. visible.

The melt ponds you see in the visual can also be seen in the radar image.

This two dark spots in the radar image above the crack, you can't see in the visible.

(Click to animate)

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1815 on: June 06, 2019, 09:13:32 PM »
Kane Basin fast ice degrading fast now.

(Click to play)

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1816 on: June 07, 2019, 09:07:28 AM »
Meltponding in Kane Basin.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1817 on: June 08, 2019, 06:35:14 PM »
still a lot of surface snow on some of the ice.

ArcticMelt2

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1818 on: June 08, 2019, 06:49:55 PM »
The large ice floe is getting closer to the entrance to the strait (the last image). I hope this floe can block the strait for several weeks and slow down the destruction of the oldest ice.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1819 on: June 08, 2019, 07:00:05 PM »
Very unlikely IMHO.

Could make a nice poll? We usually have fun with those.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1820 on: June 08, 2019, 07:01:06 PM »
Has about as much chance of doing that as the last large floe which is next to no chance.

gerontocrat

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1821 on: June 08, 2019, 07:39:56 PM »
My eyes don't do looking at images so good but... looked at Kane and thought:-

Is the landfast ice breaking away (yellow ovals) or about to break away (orange oval)?
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1822 on: June 08, 2019, 07:41:33 PM »
Yes and yes, Gerontocrat.

Stephan

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1823 on: June 08, 2019, 08:44:00 PM »
The large ice floe is getting closer to the entrance to the strait (the last image). I hope this floe can block the strait for several weeks and slow down the destruction of the oldest ice.
I guess this floe will share the same fate as the "Very Big Chunk" some weeks ago.
Why should it be more stable than the VBC?
It is too late just to be concerned about Climate Change

gerontocrat

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1824 on: June 08, 2019, 08:57:39 PM »
The large ice floe is getting closer to the entrance to the strait (the last image). I hope this floe can block the strait for several weeks and slow down the destruction of the oldest ice.

If it's the floe outlined in the red circle then it is busted already. (Horrible image for my eyes)
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1825 on: June 08, 2019, 08:59:02 PM »
To quote a wise woman:

Quote
Doesn't look like anything to me...

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1826 on: June 08, 2019, 09:03:27 PM »
it is busted already.

These lines in the radar are not necessarily crackes.

Will come into sight for Sentinel 2A. Then we know more.



oren

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1827 on: June 08, 2019, 11:31:44 PM »
We know the Nares is not closing again until deep into next winter. The rest is just details...

ArcticMelt2

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1828 on: June 09, 2019, 06:46:56 AM »
Why should it be more stable than the VBC?

Because the ice floe probably consists of older ice. She sailed from a more remote region of the Arctic. Obviously, it wintered in more northern latitudes. It should be stable.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1829 on: June 09, 2019, 06:53:13 AM »
So was 'Very Big Chunk', ArcticMelt2.

Even the thicker ice these days is quite thin.

Alphabet Hotel

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1830 on: June 09, 2019, 06:42:48 PM »
Animation from DMI's Sentinel-1 ASAR Lincoln Sea images. May 31-Jun 08
Images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php

Something happened to the images on the 6th. I think we're seeing it from a different angle as the satellites move. I missed one partial image on the 6th that got replaced later in the day.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1831 on: June 10, 2019, 06:29:38 AM »
BOOM!

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1832 on: June 10, 2019, 06:36:51 AM »
Same boom as a GIF.

Tony Mcleod

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1833 on: June 10, 2019, 07:08:25 AM »
That ought to teach that annoying little island a lesson.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1834 on: June 10, 2019, 07:13:31 AM »
Wow, where is this Hans hate coming from Tony? ;)

Hans can crack 1 million floes without taking a scratch.

Tor, help me here!

Tony Mcleod

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1835 on: June 10, 2019, 07:25:19 AM »
Nah, he's gotta be hurtin' after that.

wallen

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1836 on: June 10, 2019, 07:27:04 AM »
BOOM!

To me , this is the best image of the season. I love doing jigsaws of unusual images. This would be brilliant.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 12:28:03 PM by wallen »

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1837 on: June 10, 2019, 07:51:32 AM »
BOOM!

To me , this is the best image of the season.

Glad i spotted it then. :)

gerontocrat

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1838 on: June 10, 2019, 12:04:24 PM »
Nah, he's gotta be hurtin' after that.
Nope, Hans is solid as a rock!
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1839 on: June 10, 2019, 12:10:26 PM »
...as a... Awesome, i actually loled. :)

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1840 on: June 10, 2019, 04:07:30 PM »
Quote
… Hans can crack 1 million floes without taking a scratch.
Tor, help me here!
Sorry, B_, but have you heard of glaciers (made of ice) turning "V" shaped valleys into "U" shaped valleys?  It's because the ice, with entrained bits of rock, gouges out the rock.  So the million or so hits taken by Hans Island has eroded Hans Island, sand grain by sand grain - a little faster, probably, than if it was only water flowing past its shores.  (Freeze-thaw processes will be significant in loosening the surface for further erosion.)  I'm sure some of the 'thumps' can be felt by those who visit the island, and those mini- and micro-earthquakes will very slowly take their toll as well (but tiny compared with freeze-thaw).  I don't, however, expect to see any changes to Hans Island except on the hand-specimen level.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1841 on: June 10, 2019, 04:31:01 PM »
OMG, Hans shaking due to floes bumping against it?? Now i want to go there even more...

So, let's focus on the 1mio figure.

Roughly speaking, how much erosion could we expect from 1mio floes like this bumping? 1cm, 1m, 1km?

gerontocrat

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1842 on: June 10, 2019, 07:06:12 PM »
The geology of Hans Island was discussed on this thread way back in 2017. Go to #1173

Basically a big lump of very hard limestone and even harder dolomite. It will be there basically unchanged long after we are dead and gone.

As Rox the Geologist wrote:-

Quote
Looks like its limestone and dolomites
Its old! Silurian, and not metamorphosed, which illustrated how stable the shield has been.
Ludlovian in age (named after the original type locality of Ludlow, Shropshire)
Tectonic setting is of a continental margin.
As a not very big lump of fairly smooth rock not in the pantheon of natural wonders

picture from #1171
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1843 on: June 10, 2019, 07:15:45 PM »
Hans Island is mostly steep-sided limestone or dolomite, so it likely erodes mostly from the sides.  Ice floes will basically cause below water line erosion, while freeze-thaw action, chemical weathering and surface runoff will affect the subaerial surface.  Per the internet chemical weathering of maybe "one-twentieth of a centimeter every 100 years" could be expected, but this would be in a more temperate climate, so I'll guess a 0.25 to 0.5 cm of loss this past 2,000 years from chemical weathering.

I'm really just guessing, but 500 good bumps or scrapes per year, so in 2,000 years, what, on the order of a centimeter or two? 



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Stephan

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1844 on: June 10, 2019, 07:23:03 PM »
Just off-topic: Does this beautiful island belong to Grønland (Denmark) or to Ellesmere Island (Canada)?
And on its top some time-lapse cameras to follow the ice flow were just perfect!!
Off-Topic-end
It is too late just to be concerned about Climate Change

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1845 on: June 10, 2019, 07:25:47 PM »
Stephan, this is disputed.

Canada would raise their flag. Then the Danes come and replace it with their flag.

And both parties leave whiskey for the other one while doing so.

So i heard. :)

And no, it's completely not off topic.

miki

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1846 on: June 10, 2019, 07:28:24 PM »
BOOM!

Just brilliant! Thanks for posting it.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1847 on: June 10, 2019, 07:32:03 PM »
Tor, Gerontocrat, thanks guys for your answers.

For me as a small human, a couple of cm in thousands of years, this is as good as 'no scratch'. And this is for sure not the last thing i say about that. ;)

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1848 on: June 10, 2019, 07:32:44 PM »
Just brilliant! Thanks for posting it.

Very welcome Miki. :)

P-maker

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Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1849 on: June 10, 2019, 10:26:41 PM »
B_l,

Just for the record. The Canadians used to place a bottle of "Canadian Club", which is definitely not a whiskey (traditional Irish variety). The Danes used to return the favour by placing a bottle of "Gammel Dansk", which is certainly not anywhere near any type of whisky known to mankind. Best known Danish varity of whisky is known as "Stauning Rye"...

Cheers P