Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: The Nares Strait thread  (Read 529622 times)

HapHazard

  • ASIF Lurker
  • Posts: 85
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 18
  • Likes Given: 442
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1850 on: June 10, 2019, 10:59:40 PM »
Next time I'm visiting Hans I'll leave a bottle of Crown Royal Northern Harvest Rye and a Raptors flag.

magnamentis

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1851 on: June 11, 2019, 03:44:55 AM »
let's agree on booze

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1852 on: June 11, 2019, 05:42:50 AM »
B_l,

Just for the record. The Canadians used to place a bottle of "Canadian Club", which is definitely not a whiskey (traditional Irish variety). The Danes used to return the favour by placing a bottle of "Gammel Dansk", which is certainly not anywhere near any type of whisky known to mankind. Best known Danish varity of whisky is known as "Stauning Rye"...

Cheers P

That's interesting, P. Thanks for the details. :)

gerontocrat

  • ASIF Royalty
  • Posts: 5426
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 720
  • Likes Given: 18
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1853 on: June 11, 2019, 12:15:11 PM »
Am I seeing the complete disintegration of the 1 year(?) land-fast sea ice in Kane basin ?

It also looks as if for most of the time the land bordering Nares Strait (Greenland and Ellesmere) will be above freezing for the next week or so. (In fact the entire coastal fringe of Greenland all the time and far inland at times).
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

be cause

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 640
  • Citizenship .. a Lurker gets asylum
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 88
  • Likes Given: 123
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1854 on: June 11, 2019, 12:25:52 PM »
I'm thinking of moving .. it is warmer either side of Greenland and on the Siberian islands than it is here in Ireland .. b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1855 on: June 11, 2019, 12:57:24 PM »
Am I seeing the complete disintegration of the 1 year(?) land-fast sea ice in Kane basin ?

Yes, most of it has become loose by now. All floes are not really moving much after breaking up, because there are no to few current forces at this side of the basin. The only thing moving them are the tidal waves.

Tor Bejnar

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 2764
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 187
  • Likes Given: 110
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1856 on: June 11, 2019, 05:32:27 PM »
Further to the Kane Basin fast ice disintegrating, there are several grounded icebergs (from Humboldt Glacier) with that fast ice, so until the newly mobile "thin" ice separates from them, the former fast ice won't move much. [see above link to 2017 post (up-thread), then look at following several posts]
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 09:13:33 PM by Tor Bejnar »
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1857 on: June 11, 2019, 06:00:13 PM »
It is always good to have a trouper who remembers things upthread. Thanks, Tor! :)

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1858 on: June 11, 2019, 08:01:32 PM »
BTW, this land-fast sea ice in Kane basin has melt ponds as of 10th.

(Click to zoom out)

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3902
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 530
  • Likes Given: 1102
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1859 on: June 11, 2019, 09:09:43 PM »
The state of the fast ice, while impressive, is not very different from previous years that had an open Kane Basin at this time of year - 2007, 2009, 2010, 2017.

Click to animate.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1860 on: June 11, 2019, 09:45:42 PM »
Dat font...  ;D

Thanks for sharing Oren. That's useful info!

bairgon

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 15
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1861 on: June 11, 2019, 11:23:17 PM »
Further to the Kane Basin fast ice disintegrating, there are several grounded icebergs

Thanks for the reminder, Tor - had almost forgotten about that bit of research I did! Have been following this thread with interest this year.

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3902
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 530
  • Likes Given: 1102
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1862 on: June 12, 2019, 02:33:07 AM »
Here is an animation and image posted by A-Team in the Test Space thread.

Here I am testing the effectiveness of a backwards-running mp4 of the Nares funnel (or spillway), the ice in the Lincoln Sea caught up in its extended surface current (driven by sea level differences) above the Nares Strait. The movie uses near-daily Sentinel-1 images furnished by DMI from 01 May to 11 June 2019.

It would be feasible to extend the mp4 back to 15 Sept 2018 though that would require down-scaling and/or faster frame rates to keep file size manageable. the firehose effect may have pauses deep in winter and not persist the whole time.

Although DMI's interest is the waters around Greenland, the images do go far enough offshore to capture the entire funnel 165 km to the north and east, but not enough past Ellesmere Island to really determine where the exported ice originates (from along the coast or up towards the pole?).

In any event, the ice being lost is some of the thickest and oldest ice left in the Arctic Ocean. This ice sector is seldom directly set in motion by the wind (per Osisaf ice motion vectors) but this season it as been strongly pressed down against the western CAA coast by the mega-TransPolar CW rotation.

The Terra visual counterparts have quite different properties from Sentinel radar and even from the nominally identical WorldView scenes. The last 4-5 days have seen a peculiar darkening of funnel ice in Sentinel and Ascat radar; it leads to a stained glass look at optical wavelengths after reprocessing for feature-following in Gimp (crop before equalizing).

The very large floe off Ellesmere entered the scene 48 days ago. It is losing ice on the margins but still is too big to fit down the strait. Be sure to set the movie view to 'loop'.

For year-round flows through the Nares and the overall freshened water budget history of the Arctic Ocean, see:

https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/JPO-D-15-0093.1
https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/2007JCLI1748.1

be cause

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 640
  • Citizenship .. a Lurker gets asylum
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 88
  • Likes Given: 123
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1863 on: June 12, 2019, 02:34:19 AM »
could someone please copy A-team's latest mp4 over to here .. it is impressive !  b.c.

ps .. my wish is your command ! thanks Oren !!!
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1864 on: June 12, 2019, 03:38:34 PM »
This is nuts!

It's warmer in north Greenland than in Germany today.

Alphabet Hotel

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 42
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1865 on: June 12, 2019, 06:17:08 PM »
Animation from DMI's Sentinel-1 ASAR Lincoln Sea images. Jun 02 - Jun 11
Images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php

I changed the frame interval to 0.5 seconds this time.

The last few frames show ice along the Greenland coast has become locked in place and all the motion is from the north and west. The big floe is moving rapidly toward the entrance now.


b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1866 on: June 12, 2019, 06:31:24 PM »
Interesting the catchment area shifted to the west again.

The wind was been rather calm in recent days. Also low amplitude tidals atm.

Tor Bejnar

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 2764
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 187
  • Likes Given: 110
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1867 on: June 12, 2019, 08:59:49 PM »
Using the code "return [B8A*2,B03*1,B02*1]" that B_ shared the other day for use in Sentinel-hub Playground (where blue melt ponds stand out in sharp contrast to black open water and pink everything else), I note all the floes approaching Nares Strait have no melt ponding, while fast ice near the north end of Nares Strait is starting to.  (A little further south, there is much melt ponding on the Petermann Glacier tongue.)  Screen print from image dated June 10

Especially on the flow between the big one (half cut off at the top) and Ellesmere Island, a little blue is seen in this image on its upper right edge.  With enlargement (within Sentinel-hub), this blue disappears, unlike when enlarging the fjord on the lower part of this image.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 09:05:33 PM by Tor Bejnar »
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1868 on: June 12, 2019, 09:04:58 PM »
Warmth just burned over Lincoln. I totally expect the next Sentinel shots to show melt ponds.


b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1869 on: June 13, 2019, 07:41:24 AM »
Warmth just burned over Lincoln. I totally expect the next Sentinel shots to show melt ponds.

8)

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1870 on: June 13, 2019, 05:29:51 PM »
What the actual fuck did just happen??

We have a huge open area in the Nares Strait entrance.

Looks to me as if a storm has blown pushing floes north. In the strait, the right (if you go downstream) side is almost floe free which is extraordinary.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1871 on: June 13, 2019, 09:32:26 PM »
Such blue, so melt. Wow!

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1872 on: June 14, 2019, 04:42:08 AM »
Nice and clear Sentinel pics.

As expected we see floes with melt ponds today.

The current has stopped still. I really wonder what's that all about.

(Click to zoom out)

Rich

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 407
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 66
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1873 on: June 14, 2019, 07:07:25 AM »
Nice and clear Sentinel pics.

As expected we see floes with melt ponds today.

The current has stopped still. I really wonder what's that all about.

(Click to zoom out)

According to the GFS, wind is blowing straight north through the Strait.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1874 on: June 14, 2019, 08:14:23 AM »
Yes, Rich, the NW wind started around 09:00h UTC on 12.06. Wind speed is between 30 and 50km/h since then.

Since there is no other significant variable available i'm aware of, i too assume this is the reason.

It strikes me as odd, i have not seen this happen even with stronger NW winds.

Therefore i think there might be another variable we are not aware of.

I'm thinking sea surface height (Lincoln vs. Baffin) could have changed too.

Edit: Also interesting in this regard, the Kane gyre is still spinning.

johnm33

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1237
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 52
  • Likes Given: 24
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1875 on: June 14, 2019, 10:08:07 AM »
"The current has stopped still"
I'm guessing but the recent low in the Arctic set against the high[er] in Baffin together with the wind is enough to slow the easiest/surface waters, there may be some effect on the deep flow, and if there is we should see some unusual warming off Banks is., but once established it takes a huge change to affect deeper currents, and my view is that it's these that drive the eddies/turbulence in Kane.
Full moon tides in a couple of days should kick start surface flow soon.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1876 on: June 14, 2019, 10:34:52 AM »
That makes sense to me, John.

Watching closely. :)

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3902
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 530
  • Likes Given: 1102
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1877 on: June 14, 2019, 10:56:35 AM »
Well at least it stops Nares export for a few days.

Alphabet Hotel

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 42
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1878 on: June 14, 2019, 11:11:12 AM »
Animation from DMI's Sentinel-1 ASAR Lincoln Sea images. Jun 04 - Jun 13
Images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php


b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1879 on: June 14, 2019, 12:27:21 PM »
Wind's increasing.

Forecast sees wind slowing down tomorrow and increasing thereafter. Overall, this wind pattern persists until ~ Wednesday.

Rich

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 407
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 66
  • Likes Given: 35
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1880 on: June 14, 2019, 01:41:05 PM »
Well at least it stops Nares export for a few days.

Whatever Nares export is saved will be made up for In increased Fram export as that wind is pushing Ice toward the bigger vacuum cleaner.

magnamentis

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1881 on: June 14, 2019, 05:14:39 PM »
just the largest cracks

inside those, especially to the south-west, are a lot of small roundish floes, better visible in
b_L's pink image up-thread

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1882 on: June 14, 2019, 05:21:41 PM »
What you are seeing there are the melt ponds, no?

Likely those are predetermined breaking points.

Can crack somewhere else nonetheless, of course.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1883 on: June 14, 2019, 06:26:17 PM »
Today's backwards movement as a GIF, for the record.

Last 12 frames from RAMMB Slider. Latest frame 11:23h UTC.

magnamentis

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1884 on: June 15, 2019, 03:14:16 AM »
What you are seeing there are the melt ponds, no?

Likely those are predetermined breaking points.

Can crack somewhere else nonetheless, of course.

well possible or even probable that there is meltwater in the cracks but it have to be cracks IMO because meltponds that basically lead from one very end of a floe to the other very end and that kind of criss crossing would make that water drain/flow into the surrounding ocean and they would become invisible if it were just ponds/rivers.

after all it are most probably both, cracks that fill in parts with meltwater, we have to wait for better images or another tick less snow to judge more reliably.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1885 on: June 15, 2019, 06:27:56 AM »
So here is an image...

The blow torch did it's thing quite well.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1886 on: June 15, 2019, 04:21:11 PM »
It's really hard to spot due to the clouds, so i can't show a GIF for this one.

The sea ice in the Baffin Bay is moving north.

Another sign that the (surface) current has reversed.

magnamentis

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1887 on: June 15, 2019, 05:55:22 PM »
no further comment, just visit the link and see a-teams take on the same picture i posted yesterday with increased contrast, doesn't look blue but blackish to me, hence cracks indeed.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2558.msg205783.html#msg205783

Alphabet Hotel

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 42
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1888 on: June 16, 2019, 01:03:14 AM »
Animation from DMI's Sentinel-1 ASAR Lincoln Sea images. Jun 06 - Jun 15
Images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php


b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1889 on: June 16, 2019, 05:53:06 AM »
The last frame there shows a 'correct' movement again.

Looks like the current reversal was only a blip?

But then the wind calmed down yesterday and is picking up again.

Very interesting to watch.

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3902
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 530
  • Likes Given: 1102
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1890 on: June 16, 2019, 07:33:16 AM »
IMHO the current never stops, but the wind has a greater effect on the ice in the short term.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1891 on: June 16, 2019, 08:18:19 AM »
Really interesting question, Oren.

But i think the counterarguments weight heavy:

How fast must the wind blow to overcome the drag forces from the current? When i look at tidal waves i can see the drag the water has, how it pushes the floes around in a way wind never could, the current drag must be magnitudes greater than wind drag.

I've seen wind speeds higher than the ones we had recent days and as far as i'm aware of it never managed to reverse the drift.

And then there are floes in the Baffin Bay also moved north.

And then there was a little hiccup in sea surface height in the Beaufort Sea/CAA area.

http://bulletin.mercator-ocean.fr/en/PSY4/animation

(GIF showing 01.06. to 15. 06.)

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1892 on: June 16, 2019, 08:27:31 AM »
This is the current (0m) as the Mercator model sees it.

Also 01.06. to 15.06.

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3902
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 530
  • Likes Given: 1102
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1893 on: June 16, 2019, 09:02:13 AM »
Good points b_l.

Alphabet Hotel

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 42
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1894 on: June 18, 2019, 03:44:21 AM »
Animation from DMI's Sentinel-1 ASAR Lincoln Sea images. Jun 09 - Jun 17
Images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1895 on: June 18, 2019, 06:32:05 AM »
The wind in the 'wrong' direction calmed down. From here it should start flowing again. Let's see if it does.

b_lumenkraft

  • Guest
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1896 on: June 19, 2019, 09:31:45 AM »
Looks like it does.

There are floes on the right side of the upper NS again. Still an area of open sea at the Ellesmere shore.

Alphabet Hotel

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 42
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1897 on: June 19, 2019, 11:58:46 PM »
Animation from DMI's Sentinel-1 ASAR Lincoln Sea images. Jun 11 - Jun 19
Images from http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/lincoln.uk.php

I'm not sure what's going on here.

Tor Bejnar

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 2764
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 187
  • Likes Given: 110
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1898 on: June 20, 2019, 12:54:15 AM »
That shows The Nares has taken virtually no ice out of the Lincoln Sea for a week.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 948
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Nares Strait thread
« Reply #1899 on: June 20, 2019, 08:00:27 AM »
That shows The Nares has taken virtually no ice out of the Lincoln Sea for a week.

Instead, it is rapidly melting in the lincoln sea. WHICH IS WAY MORE CRAZY AND TROUBLING!
big time oops