Arctic Café

[b_lumenkraft]

Oh wow, thank you so much, Nanning! ☺️

[b_lumenkraft]

Tor,

this is one is for you:

[magnamentis]

...which we face, right? I can't imagine our rich societies not going full Nazi mode once the billions of refugees are knocking on our arbitrary borders. We are doing it today, without a crisis. We kill people and actively let people die in the Mediterranean sea - standing there watching.

Very ambiguous term, civilisation. Two opposite meanings. One of them is, to me, an obvious lie.
e.g. Is civilisation the EU? Or is it the large evil companies the EU fights in court? Other?

As long as there are nation-states, as long as there is no equality, as long as there isn't one person - one vote, there is still a long way to go...

evolution (of minds and ethics) is always way to slow but it definitely is an ongoing process IMO
just looking back a few decades or even more so a few hundred years is clearly showing progress.

nazi mode ? yes, we are on straight line and it will happen as you say, "latest" in case of a great crises, probably before. +1

Nation States ?

you're correct, i had to brake up with many because i got tired them defending nation states and arbitrary borders. +1

One person one vote ?
correct, must be the goal while perhaps there will come the day when the term "human" is prone to a closer look. difficult topic but terms "animal" and "human" (Mensch) are biblical, hence by no means is that distinction my idea but it's obvious that not everyone who walks on two legs is really "mensch" in the original jewish meaning.

Equality ?

this is where today is not the first time that directly or indirectly we are not in the same boat at all.

by definition there will and can never be "equality" and this is due to a simply but ovious fact:

WE ARE NOT EQUAL

hence if we try to make eveyone equal the result will be cruel and devastating to the population as a  whole and it's the better and more educated and more intelligent that will be killed first.

after all it has been tried many times in history and has never worked.

in short, i agree with 99% of your points, mostly 100% and at times in the meaning but
the illusion of equality can render all the good efforts obsolete. (IMO WILL not CAN)

cheers

[b_lumenkraft]

Mag, you define equality very differently than i do.

When i speak of equality i don't mean everyone has to have blond hair and blue eyes. You seem to think my definition of the word is something like that.

What i mean with that is everyone should have the same rights.

Let me give you an example: There are 2 apples hanging from a tree in 2,25m hight. Now two people come along, both hungry. One tall person with his short friend. The tall dude reaches both apples, the short one reaches none. It is now fair when the tall one takes both the apples and shares one with his short buddy. Now they are equal as far as fairness concerns, still they keep being different people.

[magnamentis]

Mag, you define equality very differently than i do.

When i speak of equality i don't mean everyone has to have blond hair and blue eyes. You seem to think my definition of the word is something like that.

What i mean with that is everyone should have the same rights.

Let me give you an example: There are 2 apples hanging from a tree in 2,25m hight. Now two people come along, both hungry. One tall person with his short friend. The tall dude reaches both apples, the short one reaches none. It is now fair when the tall one takes both the apples and shares one with his short buddy. Now they are equal as far as fairness concerns, still they keep being different people.

as per your example i 100% agree again

as per definition, i could have wrote that i'd be interested in your definition of "equality"
however you got my point and responded accordingly.

i'm more on the side of physics and mathematics where "equal" mean "=" means 100% identical
but since you gave me your version of equal i can say that i agree to your way to look at things like the one in your example.

one thing to add perhaps:

it's not that easy for the tall guy because it's often the small dog that barks as long up to the tall dog until he gets bitten. why, envy is the word.

what i'm saying is that it takes always two sides and i'm sure that if we two were the tall and the short guy (i'm quite short 1.73 hence i assume you'd be the other guy LOL) that there would be no problem to share the two apples. BTW, going away from the two of us, looking at the big guy and the nerdy guy, they can build a perfect team if each of them stay in his territory of strength/skills.

one thing that distinguishes humans from most animals is that animals often know their place in the social group except when hormons play havoc while humans permanently try to appear "greater" than they are"

this has several disadvantages:

- a lot of time and energy get's lost in disputes

- if everyone plays mr. big, the real mr. big has to proof that he is indeed big and that can hurt LOL

ok, i'm starting to have fun and get driven away, hence let me put it like this.

it's mostly/often/all about terms

cheers

[b_lumenkraft]

hence i assume you'd be the other guy LOL

Yep! I'm 1,94.
And i would totally share with you! 

this has several disadvantages:

I know, right?! Don't get me started...

cheers

[ivica]

Summer Solstice 2019



Since 2015th on June 21st we also celebrate International Day of Yoga. 177 countries get together to pass that UN resolution, not a small thing. Yoga lights up @UN Headquarters, #Yoga4ClimateAction.

More in Unsorted.

[gerontocrat]

Yesterday, Solstice day, at about 52N 2W, the afternoon and evening became totally cloudless. So my daughter took the dogs for a long late evening walk.

A short time after sunset, in the West, it suddenly got a lot lighter. She took some photos on her mobile phone. When I saw them, after a few minutes the memory store swung into action"noct something clouds?). After a brief struggle with google, I found...

http://www-das.uwyo.edu/~geerts/cwx/notes/chap08/noctilucent.html

Noctilucent clouds (Fig 2) occur in the upper mesosphere, at about 80 km. Their name derives from the fact that they can be seen from the ground when the Sun is 7-10 degrees below the horizon and only reflects off these very high clouds . It arises from the water vapour released upon oxidation of methane. The recent observed increase of such clouds is related to increased atmospheric concentrations of methane***, a greenhouse gas. Noctilucent clouds are most common in the summer in polar regions. At this time the mesospheric lapse rate is close to neutral, and this makes uplift easier.

*** AGW - the gift that keeps on giving.


EDIT Am I right - are they Noctilucent clouds? (Right time of day and year, right direction)

Images attached. They are big

[b_lumenkraft]

EDIT Am I right - are they Noctilucent clouds? (Right time of day and year, right direction)

Yep!

Beautiful, really!

[TerryM]

EDIT Am I right - are they Noctilucent clouds? (Right time of day and year, right direction)

Gorgeous!
Any way to set a tripod & camera for additional photos/video?
Terry

[gerontocrat]

EDIT Am I right - are they Noctilucent clouds? (Right time of day and year, right direction)

Gorgeous!
Any way to set a tripod & camera for additional photos/video?
Terry

RAIN!!

[TerryM]

RAIN!!

Manana? - or even the nights following?


Seriously you've posted some wonderful examples. I look for them just before daybreak. but have never seen anything to compare.
Terry

[gerontocrat]

RAIN!!

Manana? - or even the nights following?

Seriously you've posted some wonderful examples. I look for them just before daybreak. but have never seen anything to compare.
Terry

These clouds only appear for a brief time after sunset, with the sun something like 5 to 15 degrees below the horizon. They are uncommon, once being seen only in polar regions and still usually only at this time of year. I believe they are unpredictable as well.

So it was just luck to get the images. And by sunset tonight it will be raining here.

[ivica]

Nothing new for us, anyway:
Podcast "Episode 3.10 Paranoid Billionaires with Doug Rushkoff" on The Next Billion Seconds with Mark Pesce, June 26, 2019.
"...going deep into the question of how billionaires plan to survive the apocalypse of their own making..."

More titles from there:
THE NEXT BILLION CARS Episode 10 – The Next Billion Challenges, THE NEXT BILLION CARS Episode 9 – The Next Billion Carmakers, Episode 3.08 The History of the Future with Blake Harris, THE NEXT BILLION CARS Episode 8 – The Next Billion Drivers ...

< and Jones, you keep a strong spine >

[Laurent]

Hello, For French readers we (me (laurent Rouchairoles) and jean-luc Joudain (he is watching this forum since 2013)) have setup a Facebook page to discuss about Arctic and Antarctic stuff at amateur-expert level. It is a private page here : https://www.facebook.com/groups/975182256158298/ for more "relax" information feed it is here : https://www.facebook.com/Surveillance-Banquise-Arctique-1940752455980747/ the idea of this page is to translate articles from english to french about Arctic, Antarctic or climate related stuff.

[NevB]

But the Greatest of These is Love

I love this beautiful, mysterious, complicated planet we get to call home. The planet who had the audacity to burst with life, from her boreal crown to her icy toes at the South Pole. I love her caves and her valleys and her rivers and her oceans. I love the majesty of larger-than-life elephants and whales and rhinos and lions. I love the elegance and enigma of all the different kinds of bats—even the ones that eat other bats! I love the unapologetic sass of butterflies and hummingbirds and coral reefs and the tear-jerking aroma of flowers that bloom below the equator.

https://medium.com/@maryheglar/but-the-greatest-of-these-is-love-4b7aad06e18c

This helps understand the where the anger at climate denial comes from.

Neven some time ago (perhaps even more than once) said he was angry, this made a lot of sense to me as I'm also angry at climate denial (except I'm completely ineffective). I also think it's only the anger of the youth that will make any difference (Greta is just the start, very awake but not yet angry).

I might be seeing more here than there is, but just now this helps explain where the anger comes from. 

[ivica]

just flying nearby
msm do not likes , i wonder why .

[ivica]

reverberation

[pearscot]

Sometimes I wish I didn't ruin my fucking life by moving out to this island in Washington. Moreover, living in the U.S. is the ultimate cure as this is one of the most disgusting countries in the world. It's pretty amazing just how awful my mood has been for so long.

[kassy]

Maybe it is time to move?

[gerontocrat]

Sometimes I wish I didn't ruin my fucking life by moving out to this island in Washington. Moreover, living in the U.S. is the ultimate cure as this is one of the most disgusting countries in the world. It's pretty amazing just how awful my mood has been for so long.

I used to move all the time, but I was running from, not to.
Much of it was also about my own inclination to depression, so the problem was me. Took years for the penny to drop.

I haven't fixed it, but most of the time I sorta cope. Laughing at myself helps, as do Tom & Jerry Cartoons.

Surely you get some marvellous sunsets. Just one thing a day that is a bit OK helps.

[ivica]

Everything Is Rhytm

[ivica]

"In the midst of the blitzkrieg Cauvery Calling campaign, Sadhguru flew to Delhi to attend the UN Convention to Combat Desertification (UNCCD COP 14) on 9th & 10th September."

Limitless human aspiration vs limited physical world



< Life: The Framework >

[vox_mundi]

Documentary follows Pastafarians as they strain for recognition
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/18/documentary-follows-pastafarians-strain-for-recognition

https://www.ipastafaridoc.com/

... “The problem is that rationality is just no match for irrationality. That ship sailed in 2016. People now don’t change their minds, they double down on their irrationality, and using facts, science and reason to contest the unreasonable is simply driving us all further apart. Maybe it’s time to try a different approach.”

... “Pastafarianism unlike other religions, left out hate, bigotry, violence and dogma – its only dogma is that there is no dogma. But by challenging innocuous privileges like the right to wear religious headgear on an ID photo, it makes us think about others, like the right not to vaccinate your children, say, or to use tax-free income to buy private jets so you can fly round preaching science is a conspiracy.”



Look, if no one’s going to talk to each other like adults any more, let’s try something else.’

Ramen!

[nanning]

Thanks vox, very good!
I'm really curious what Tom thinks of this noble Pastafarian religion.

[blumenkraft]

Q: What's the difference between a monotheist and an atheist?

A: One.

[nanning]

Hi blumenkraftwerk,
Do you have a spare abtropfsieb? I'm size 56 (hat size). 

[ivica]

Lyn Collins - Think

[ivica]

Personal Ecosystem

 Enterotype: microbiom, virom, exposome

   do you cooperate or do you compete with it ?
      do you want to starve your personal ecosystem?

< you are human - not a biological robot, don't devolve - evolve - consciously >

[ivica]

Aware of Ecosystem



._  The Commodores - Nightshift   _.

[ivica]

Every human have internal ecosystem which is a part of them.
Every human lives in external ecosystem of which they are a part.

Successfully seeding it in people's mind will allow other questions about wellbeing to arise.  Is it not something what society should communicate?   or is what i see locally widespread - ppl becoming scared&blocked even by a mention of virus...

[kassy]

For those who like surveys:

A survey is conducted by researchers of Cambridge University and Wageningen University. They have asked us to post information about it. Please share your views on climate change and reading blogs by filling out this survey. The data will be used to get a better understanding of climate change blog audiences’ views on climate change and their blog reading behavior.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2019/10/do-you-want-to-share-your-views-on-climate-change-and-reading-blogs/

[Tor Bejnar]

I rarely visit this thread, but I'm glad I did this morning - having just completed the survey Kassy posted.

[TerryM]

Kassy
Thanks so much for alerting me to the survey!
Terry

[nanning]

I have also completed the survey. Interesting questions and set-up. Thanks kassy.

OffTopic: Hm, it seems I have returned to my old posting frequency. Am I healed?

[blumenkraft]

WTF, this survey is weird. They ask if flat earth contributes to climate change... m(

They also ask if rising global sea level contributes to climate change. No, it's a consequence, doh!

What is this? Are they trying to test the surveyees intelligence also?

[Tor Bejnar]

That was my guess, B_. 
Do people actually read the questions?

[gerontocrat]

WTF, this survey is weird. They ask if flat earth contributes to climate change... m(

They also ask if rising global sea level contributes to climate change. No, it's a consequence, doh!

What is this? Are they trying to test the surveyees intelligence also?

I think they are hoping to attract some denier replies so they can analyse the most popular denier myths / denier evidence floating around.

[kassy]

If you stated you disagreed with AGW you got an extra set of questions which i did not not get to see.

The questions mentioned below stood out to me too.

I wonder if they will tell more in their preliminary report which i signed up for.
At least we will get a proper breakdown of the things they were looking for.

[blumenkraft]

Thanks, Tor, Kassy, and Gerontocrat. That makes sense.

I'm tempted to make this survey as a denier tomorrow in class with another IP address. Let's see what they give me.

[kassy]

You will probably have to rate extra stuff.

If they have an open question regarding flat earth just mention ´Rossby wave propagation obv being very different´ and we will see what they make of that. 

[nanning]

Have fun blumenkraft use your creativity. A perfect opportunity to laugh out loud.

[ivica]

Happy Diwali - festival of lights



5 Tips To Always Be Joyful

[ivica]

Wave of Bliss

"...
The minds runs on  In search of happiness  Without understanding the nature of life
.
Your desire is just a small fish  But it grows into a whale  And even after catching the whale  You still want another small fish
..
The waves are only on the surface of the sea
Deep inside, the fish are free
..."

[ivica]

2019-12-05: UNCCD Land Ambassadors @rickykej & @baabamaal with @IPSinghSp and @LonniePark just released the official: UNCCD Land Anthem "Born from the Land"

[ivica]

[ivica]

Intelligence in Action

Intelligence can make complex stuff simple. How to make sustainability simpler than the way whales do it!

Ricky Kej - Nocturne

[ivica]

Scandinavian talk show Skavlan, 2019-11-25:    
   Life - let's explore something
.       

[ivica]

Aim for All

Many times when we asked for something basic it was halved, and halved, and... Let constipation (happens-little-by-little, incrementalism) die. Aim for All now. Or with help of math, aim for infinity and let them halve it
.

[ivica]

E pur si muove


wiki: Statue outside the Uffizi, Florence.

Ricky Kej feat Ron Korb - Earth Song
"Contains audio ‘Song of Earth’ from NASA Voyager Space Sounds".