Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path  (Read 76827 times)

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #150 on: May 27, 2020, 05:28:54 AM »
I ran the wheelhoe around and took another picture.

https://imgur.com/gallery/memt55F
via Imgur for iOS

and a picture of the wheelhoe

https://imgur.com/gallery/A9ydlL7
via Imgur for iOS

One man with only a solar electric wheelhoe could maintain two or three acres of garden without too much effort.  So the question remains, how many food calories can someone produce without fossil fuels ? 


El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #151 on: May 27, 2020, 07:37:55 AM »
You have a very nice place with those hills in the background Bruce.

And what is your answer to your question (regarding calories?)

nanning

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2487
  • 0Kg CO₂, 37 KWh/wk,125L H₂O/wk, No offspring
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 273
  • Likes Given: 23170
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #152 on: May 27, 2020, 07:40:50 AM »
Dear Bruce, I could take this further: if all machines are electrical with sun/wind-powered batteries, there are no fossil fuels necessary and 1 man can do (with heavier equipment) much more than 3 acres: Just make the machines bigger.

Until... the (parts of the) machines break down and there are no replacements anymore. Because it is high tech, you cannot mend it when an essential part is broken, as opposed to low tech.

High tech non-FF farming is a nice dream but it makes one quite vulnerable in the long term if there comes a period where new and replacement parts are hard or impossible to get. I think this period will come rather sooner than later. Sorry to break your dream Bruce.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #153 on: May 27, 2020, 07:46:21 AM »
We also planted wheat (not as much as that) but we don't try to process it yet, we just give it to the hens.

I also planted wheat near the house but on only cca 10 m2, to show my sons what it looks like, how it changes day by day and have some fun hand-harvesting and hand-processing. I am mostly into fruits and partly vegetables, growing grain is not really for me, and honestly quite pointless as Bruce said above. Nonetheless, I like looking at my "wheat-field" and seeing it grow daily.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #154 on: May 27, 2020, 08:57:19 AM »
I grow dent corn because I can mill it with relative ease. Wheat can be milled but I put more effort into emmer, spelt and einkorn because farro can be cooked like risotto. Peas grow through winter and beans in the summer . All these crops are for drying and storage. Learning how to grow these crops with an electric wheelhoe does not preclude using a human powered one if your survival depended upon it. Mine would work manually if I took the battery out,
 I know how to garden without power assist . Also that one acre garden could be larger with the electric assist but even in my youth I never attempted a garden that size with a shovel and hoe.
 But I also want to know how many food calories an electric tiller can produce. There are about 10 fossil fuel calories invested in every calorie of food produced. So the choice isn’t between doing it by hand or using a 1000 horsepower John Deere , or it shouldn’t be.
 
Here is an old post about my feeble attempts at quantifying embodied energy in the solar/electric wheelhoe  and how many food calories it might produce. It does give one pause to think of how many potato calories it takes to pay back the embodied fossil fuel costs of one very small tiller. Mine is six years old and running well.



1389
Policy and solutions / Re: Improving EROEI numbers
« on: March 18, 2014, 05:09:17 PM »
JimD,   So steel just taking a stab at this without pulling tillie apart to weigh it

Steel.  239 times 20.1. =  4803.9 per kilo times 10 =  48039 k/cal for twenty two pounds

Aluminum. 239 times 155 = 37,045 per 2.2 pounds

Monocrystalline. 239 times 4750 = 1,135,250 time 2 m2. = 2,270,500

Total = 2,355,584 K/cal per tillie

The 24 volt battery is going to be a whopper I assume so it needs to be added1389
Policy and solutions / Re: Improving EROEI numbers
« on: March 18, 2014, 05:09:17 PM »
JimD,   So steel just taking a stab at this without pulling tillie apart to weigh it

Steel.  239 times 20.1. =  4803.9 per kilo times 10 =  48039 k/cal for twenty two pounds

Aluminum. 239 times 155 = 37,045 per 2.2 pounds

Monocrystalline. 239 times 4750 = 1,135,250 time 2 m2. = 2,270,500

Total = 2,355,584 K/cal per tillie

The 24 volt battery is going to be a whopper I assume so it needs to be added

One acre potatoes.   = 3,729,040 K/cal per acre

So like I said you need to get several years out of one machine and amortize the embedded energy
costs. You do get a lot of potatoes to eat however.
My question remains. If tillie with solar cells,batteries and metal cost combined equals say
4,000,000 k/cal embedded energy costs and you get five years of use and produce 11,777,920 k/cal
of food you get  an EROEI of 2.94   The solar cells will keep producing energy while not charging your batteries and if we lowball that at an EROEI of 2 then have you improved your actual EROEI by more than double? I really don't think the solar cell EROEI is that low and tillie doesn't weigh as much as the amounts I have used. So it comes down to what the embedded cost of the batteries and charger
amount to and how long everything lasts.
 
And a lot of work. I don't want to start paying for an electric car or the solar cells it would require on potato income just yet. Figuring how many people the project might feed is also of interest but I am
just trying to improve solar EROEI for now.   

One acre potatoes.   = 3,729,040 K/cal per acre

So like I said you need to get several years out of one machine and amortize the embedded energy
costs. You do get a lot of potatoes to eat however.
My question remains. If tillie with solar cells,batteries and metal cost combined equals say
4,000,000 k/cal embedded energy costs and you get five years of use and produce 11,777,920 k/cal
of food you get  an EROEI of 2.94   The solar cells will keep producing energy while not charging your batteries and if we lowball that at an EROEI of 2 then have you improved your actual EROEI by more than double? I really don't think the solar cell EROEI is that low and tillie doesn't weigh as much as the amounts I have used. So it comes down to what the embedded cost of the batteries and charger
amount to and how long everything lasts.
 
And a lot of work. I don't want to start paying for an electric car or the solar cells it would require on potato income just yet. Figuring how many people the project might feed is also of interest but I am
just trying to improve solar EROEI for now.   

« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 09:12:41 AM by Bruce Steele »

uniquorn

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5117
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2163
  • Likes Given: 388
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #155 on: July 08, 2020, 11:33:35 AM »
Milk coming to the boil in a portable solar oven (not home made)

kassy

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8234
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2041
  • Likes Given: 1986
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #156 on: July 08, 2020, 02:45:38 PM »
How much does that boil and what is the actual use? Just curious.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

uniquorn

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5117
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2163
  • Likes Given: 388
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #157 on: July 08, 2020, 04:18:28 PM »
During clear skies it will cook tarts, quiches, flat bread etc in an hour. Can use it like a slow cooker for casseroles but you have to use a lid. Too much moisture otherwise. Good for warming milk for frothy coffee first thing.
You have to keep turning it to face the sun and adjust the angle for maximum performance. It does nothing on a cloudy day.  Not advisable for people in a rush.
It's a good assistant for our one electric hotplate in summer.

kassy

  • Moderator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 8234
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2041
  • Likes Given: 1986
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #158 on: July 08, 2020, 04:21:22 PM »
Cool stuff! Thx.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #159 on: August 10, 2020, 05:59:53 PM »
Uniquorn, I would be interested in hearing about what other zero carbon tools or concepts you have purchased or built. There is a trend in purpose with a solar oven, or a scythe. To minimize fossil fuel ?
 A full tool kit of fossil fuel energy saving devices and some write up about how they work and what would inspire someone in the modern world to use them is missing in our” Walking the Walk “thread.
 
We are some rather bright people on ASIF and I enjoy all the science offered. At the same time the search for solutions, or walking the walk , is really a backwater on the forum. There are posters on the forum that avoid anything but the ice , but to those of you who show us not only your expertise in the sciences but also your personal adjustments to our shared quandary I am especially thankful. And maybe intelligence and a personal commitment to walking the walk have nothing to do with each other but having those skills represented in individuals willing to share their story is important IMO.

 The middle of the melting season isn’t a good time to ask big favors so in a few months while we wait out the winter maybe we could revisit.
 
     
   
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 06:19:50 PM by Bruce Steele »

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2045
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #160 on: August 10, 2020, 06:45:21 PM »
There is a solar water disinfection method https://www.sodis.ch/index_EN.html

On Wikipedia, they say that is also works with glass bottles, but I guess it doesn't because glass normally doesn't let UV light through.

uniquorn

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5117
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2163
  • Likes Given: 388
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #161 on: August 10, 2020, 11:16:24 PM »
Yesterday I uncovered all the beds that were 'locked down' for the autumn because of a storm forecast. Nothing happened and they stayed bone dry with a few weeds trying to survive. Luckily, due to laziness they remained open to the elements and got a thorough but unexpected drenching this evening.
Will cover them up tomorrow.

Aporia_filia

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 172
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 109
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #162 on: August 11, 2020, 12:15:20 PM »
In my lost farm I had a solar oven just like uniquorn's one. And also a solar cooker which was like a parabolic  concentrating the solar rays. Both needed some orientation every  five, ten minutes, not a problem for normal cooking. My experience with them was very satisfactory with the parabolic one. Quicker than gas cooker on summer sunny days and still good enough in spring and autumn. Delicious how vegetables came out with only a bit of salt and olive oil over them.
The solar oven was not that satisfactory couse a few clouds could make impossible to reach propper temperature.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #163 on: November 07, 2020, 07:53:09 PM »
I saw this post by Richard Heinberg. It is two parts with the second half an autobiography of his families efforts to wean themselves off fossil fuels.


https://richardheinberg.com/museletter-328-united-states-an-obituary

Twenty years is a similar timeline to my farming efforts, biodiesel, solar, Tesla powerwalls, seed saving,
foraging and keeping a year or two of emergency dried crops of corn, wheat and acorns in storage.
 There needs to be more stories , autobiographies and honesty about costs, energy production ,storage and also land expenses that allow food without fossil fuels. I finally met a Post Doc researcher trying to model ways to wean ourselves from fossil fuel dependence in our food systems. He was of the opinion
that the farming equipment that will be necessary to transition will require government monies to facilitate.
Other people’s stories will each be different but Sigmenow has solar on her house and will have a Tesla soon. The amount of solar, storage , costs and efficacy her system delivers would be interesting to me. Kiwi is off grid and got started early and has his own story. Neven built a house with energy as a major design driver.
What other people need to know is what works and how much it costs.

 




Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #164 on: December 04, 2020, 05:16:01 PM »
I found a blog directly dealing with the challenge of converting agriculture to zero fossil fuel inputs.
It is so encouraging to see other people in a similar pursuit of farming in ways that directly address the fact that we feed ourselves with a total dependence on unsustainable energy resources and how we can individually change that paradigm. There really aren’t books to read on the subject and permaculture doesn’t specifically address energy inputs.
 El CID recommended Gabe Browns regenerative farming techniques but they are all very dependent upon conventional fossil fueled equipment . Yes the soil benefits ,and I do respect that soil is a very important consideration, but if those techniques that save the soil need modern fossil fueled tractors I view them as lessons but not solutions. Ultimately farming requires positive cash flow and selling your produce invariably uses conventional transportation, processing and refrigeration. Our cereal crops utilize driers to get moisture content down to where grains can be siloed. Fuel fuel fuel.
 So anyway I am happy to read about someone whose priorities line up with civilizations challenge. How do we feed ourselves in the future. And how do we do that today, with lessons learned.

https://zeroinputagriculture.wordpress.com/2019/09/15/zero-input-agriculture/
 

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #165 on: December 04, 2020, 05:44:10 PM »
Bruce,

I know your heart is in the right place but your priorities might be wrong. I see no reason why Gabe Brown (or anyone else) couldn't put up solar panels or windturbines and use that energy to power his machinery  (I know that technically that is easier said than done, but still).
 
Having read David Montgomery's classic book "Dirt" it seems to me that civilizations more often than not destroy themselves by destroying ecosystems and most importantly soil. So in my book soil (conservation and building if possible) should be the priority. I think that green energy will inevitably replace oil in a few decades, so the major question remains / will remain: how do we grow food without destroying the soil? The question of fuel will be solved relatively soon. Conserving soil AND producing good yields (without all the usual -cides) seem more difficult to me.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #166 on: December 05, 2020, 06:29:13 PM »
 El CID, I know you aren’t thinking bottlenecks in the human population but land once farmed that reverts to forest will regrow it’s soil . Getting humans to facilitate that conversion , less humans more trees , is counterintuitive from a humans perspective. So we rationalize cutting down the forests to plant crops because it is better for humans. Even if we plant cover crops, maintain vegetive growth and ideal soil moisture year round the crops we grow pull some of that fertility back out of the soil each year.
But trees just sit there with very deep roots and over the hundreds of years they may live they build leaf cover under their boughs and with the help of symbiotic bacteria their roots carry carbon down deep into the soil.  Your garden doesn’t carry carbon to depth and tests on carbon at depth in no-till settings , like the mollisols  Gabe is farming, are still declining. But yes he is doing better work than anyone I have ever seen. The vast majority of us ( farmers ) are not putting carbon back into our soil.
 If my efforts are more garden sized and I keep as much ground cover as I can on the surface and I never till, and add compost , and grow a nitrogen building cover crop annually and still don’t use fossil fuel ,my soil , my garden , and my efforts still will never mimic a thousand year old oak forest that otherwise might be here , without modern agriculture.
 I can’t fix it , I am just trying to minimize my contribution to progress. I will plant some oak trees this year anyway and hope for the best.
 Just a thought but progress somehow has good connotations connected with it. I can’t think of a word that means going backward and also is viewed as a positive thing.


https://www.lexico.com/synonyms/retrograde

« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 06:41:30 PM by Bruce Steele »

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #167 on: December 05, 2020, 09:53:24 PM »
Getting humans to facilitate that conversion , less humans more trees , is counterintuitive from a humans perspective.

I here what you say, and mostly agree

Soooo....agroforestry? Like Inga alley croping in tropical areas? Coppiced alleys of black locust and plants in between? Chip down the wood and use those chips to help build soil?

I have plenty of volunteer laburnum (love those) and black locust (N fixers) in my garden/plot, also other trees like birch and hazel and ash and maple. I coppice them, they all coppice very well. They grow back fast and enrich my soil both with their roots and with the chips I get. I use those chips around fruit trees and anywhere I need them. Once they would grow too big and overshadow my crops I coppice them again.

Ernst Götsch does something similar in Brazil, and Geoff Lawton in Australia. Even Sepp Holzer of Austria uses wood to build soil with his hügelkultur

OrganicSu

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 9
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #168 on: December 19, 2020, 11:21:25 AM »
Do we know if tannin levels reduce when the acorn is just started germination?
Today I found huge acorns (holly oak), some where the shell has cracked and the root is just visible.
Wishing you all a great Christmas.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #169 on: December 19, 2020, 04:27:21 PM »
OrganicSU, I don’t have a good answer.  I prefer to process acorns that haven’t cracked open because I harvest in public spaces and would prefer to avoid contamination. When you look at a USDA lists of food born pathogens pistachios reoccur as vectors. Pistachios crack before they fall from the tree so they are susceptible to contamination on the ground. Pistachios are eaten raw so they are a higher risk than acorns that get cooked .
 Our holm oaks are late to fall this year. I checked and still need to wait a couple more weeks. The dried acorns from last year are running low because I am feeding up a couple pigs on them. I have less than a hundred pounds in storage.

OrganicSu

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 9
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #170 on: December 21, 2020, 04:36:54 PM »
Dear Bruce, thanks. Luckily here there is no source for contamination. Will let you know how it goes. Interesting to try dotorimuc again (yum yum)

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #171 on: December 21, 2020, 05:17:49 PM »
Organic SU, I posted a link to another zeroinput agriculture adventurer upthread. Here is a piece he wrote about extracting starch from cannas. Arrowroot starch.

https://zeroinputagriculture.wordpress.com/2019/10/21/tools-and-techniques-canna-flour/

Général de GuerreLasse

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 63
  • Likes Given: 32
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #172 on: July 21, 2021, 11:09:47 AM »
It took a lot of work for me to be able to present this work by one of the largely unknown fathers of French permaculture: Marc Bonfils. If there are any areas that you don't understand, please let me know.  This text is old, but in my opinion, still very valid.

The Indians of the Sacramento and San Joaquim valleys (California) provide a perfect example of an economy based on the harvesting of oak acorns, and this with a high population density.
 The Minok tribe harvests no less than 85 species, but only one resource forms the basis of the Indians' diet: acorns from several oak species, which take about a month to harvest and constitute more than 50% of their food resources. After being transported in basketry and dried, the acorns are stored either inside the house, in small baskets, or outside in a granary on stilts, which can itself be a basketry. This way of life allows a density of 40 inhabitants per 100 km², which is much higher than that of all other hunter-gatherers and even that of the farming Indians of the eastern United States (less than 30 inhabitants per 100 km²).
 NB: before the arrival of the Spanish, central California had the densest population in all of America north of Mexico.
 Frank Latta, an ethnologist who devoted a large part of his life to studying the Yokuts, estimated that an Indian family consumed an average of 500 to 1000 kg of acorns per year, and although an Indian family tends to have more members than our own, the quantity of acorns is still relatively large.
 
 Thus, forest trees have been nurturing to the extent of the fields: it has been argued that the Neolithic peoples of the oak zone originally had the acorn as their main food.
 In many Swiss lake dwellings (or palafittes), acorns have been found ground into flour. In the Swiss prehistoric sites dating from the Neolithic period, as well as in Châlons-sur-Saône and Annecy, acorns have been found in the form of flour, along with millet, spelt, soft wheat, barley, etc., as well as raspberries, pears, and other fruits. Millet, which was the main cereal crop at the time, was grown under a park with oak trees, and the acorns were carefully gathered.
Later Ovid and Strabo of Amassae mention acorns as the usual food of many peoples.
In the limestone hills of Israel, acorns were also an important food resource up to the time of Christ, and it is mentioned in Hist Eccl that St. Matthew fed mainly on sweet acorns. Our "Gallic ancestors" also built up important reserves for the winter.
  In the Middle Ages, the Crimean Tartars lived on acorn bread and in 1930 the inhabitants of the village of Ogliestre in Sardinia continued to eat acorn flour cakes.
In this way, oak acorns have been consumed by mankind for thousands of years.
 Since the prehistoric inhabitants of Jarmo in the rolling hills of Iraq 6700 BC acorns were an essential part of the diet until the beginning of the 20th century.
 In Europe acorns continued to play an essential role in village life in the Middle Ages and they continued to play an important dietary role in Spain, Sardinia, Greece and Italy until the early 1900s, providing at least a quarter of some people's dietary requirements. In North Africa today, acorns continue to play an important role in the Atlas Mountains inhabited by Berber tribes.
  In Morocco, acorns are the essential ingredient of a special couscous that they have been making for centuries.
In Algeria, the Kabyles also eat a lot of sweet acorns in winter (the fruit of the holm oak or yeuse, Balotta breed). NB: In North Africa, the holm oak or yeuse rac. Balotta climbs to an altitude of 1600 m in the Moroccan Atlas.

Its evergreen leaves make it a tree of the hot and dry regions of France up to 600 m altitude.
 It is fairly abundant in south-eastern France and Corsica, although it is also found in small numbers in the dunes of Gascony, the Charentes, the Dordogne, and even the Causses, and as far as the Vendée and Poitou.The holm oak or yeuse race Balotta is widespread in North Africa and Spain, but is sporadic in France.The holm oak is only 15 m high at most. Sweet acorn-producing oaks, like the yeuse (Quercus ilex race Balotta), are Mediterranean forest trees that are drought-resistant and undemanding in terms of the nature of the soil, whether limestone or not, and their sweet acorns have the same use as chestnuts and are, as in the time of our Gallic ancestors, gathered by the Berbers and kept at home for human consumption. In Kabylie, in years of shortage, the other acorns of ordinary holm oak or ordinary cork oak are eaten, as they are too rich in tannins and burn the stomachs.NB: open field oak orchards are also cultivated in Sardinia, in the middle of ploughed fields. In Northern France, the sessile and pedunculate oaks produce acorns that are not fit for human consumption (without special preparation).
In Europe, among the oaks that can produce sweet acorns:1)
 
 - the holm oak or yew Balotta race, up to 16 m high, widespread in North Africa and Spain, sporadic in France.
 - Tanzin oak: 10 to 20 m high.2)
 
 - the pubescent oak: 15 to 20 m high maximum, widespread on the arid limestones of the
of the Southern Alps, up to 1600 m in altitude
 - the "Virginiliane Tebore" variety is still very popular in Southern Italy
 
3)
 - the cork oak: 10 to 15-18 m high, very cold4)
 
 - the Verinois oak: 5 to 7 m high maximum, limestone scrubland5)
 
 - the farnetto oak
the farnetto oak: an important tree whose range extends from southern Italy to Asia Minor.
 All of these oaks can produce sweet acorns, but the 30 to 40-45m high oaks have more or less bitter acorns.NB: see fodder trees.In Mediterranean countries, oaks often bear sweet fruits that are as tasty as chestnuts, and which were once very important in times of famine, and which are still sometimes used locally by the population.
In fact, people did not stop using oak acorns until the introduction of potato cultivation in Europe.
In our temperate regions, only one fruit tree has really retained its role as a food source: the chestnut tree. In Italy, the surface area occupied by chestnut trees is estimated at 660,000 hectares, giving an average annual production of 5 million quintals, i.e. 8 quintals per hectare per year, i.e. almost as much as many Italian wheat fields in 1930. In Périgord, Corsica and the Cévennes, chestnuts were the winter bread, forming the basis of the winter diet.
  The food value of acorns is very high:
Acorns
Water 8.7 to 44.6%
Carbohydrates 32.7 to 89.7 %
Protein 2.3 to 8.6%.
Fat 1.1 to 31.3%
Tannins 0.1 to 8.8% Kcal/100g
Kcal/100g 265 to 557

Chestnuts
carbohydrates 40%
Protein: 4%.
fat 2.6%.

Potatoes
carbohydrate 20%
protein 1.6 to 2%
lipids 0,5%.
 Ratio of essential amino acids: Limiting factors :
methionine: 0.27 to 0.31
lysine: 1.19 to 1.51
The relative richness of acorns in lysine makes them an interesting supplement to grass cereals.


VITAMINS :
The vitamin C content of some varieties of acorns is as high as 55 ml/g, equivalent to that of lemons.Only one variety of acorn has been (truly) analysed for vitamin A content: 180 IU vt A / g or 180,000 IU vt A / 100gThis is richer in vitamin A than carrots, so that 50g of these acorns would be sufficient to meet the minimum daily requirement of vitamin A. Acorns could therefore play a vital role in countries like Pakistan where vitamin A deficiency is widespread, causing blindness and various eye diseases. Acorns could therefore play a vital role in countries such as Pakistan where vitamin A deficiency is widespread, causing blindness and various eye diseases.Finally, some acorn species may even be more calorie-rich than wheat or maize - up to more than 2600 Kcal/lb (500g) wheat contains only 1800 Kcal/lb - making it very interesting for helping malnourished people around the world, especially those living on slopes susceptible to erosion.
 In addition, selected high-yielding species can produce a lot. J. Russel Smitch, the author of "Tree crops", estimated in 1952 that a commercial oak orchard could produce 1400 pounds of acorns/acre, or about 18 cwt/ha of acorns. In fact, recent studies have already shown that natural oak forests are capable of yielding up to 20,000 lbs/acre in a good year, or a crop that can reach 250 cwt/ha (25t/ha) in a good year.
Moreover, oaks growing by themselves in isolation are already capable of producing very high yields per tree. For example, in the USA, where cereal crops, especially maize, cause the loss of more than 50 tonnes of soil per hectare per year through erosion in the Midwest and up to 200 tonnes per hectare per year in certain regions, not to mention all the land that is sterilised by salt in irrigated crops (maize).
However, the deep roots of oak trees, up to 30 to 40 m deep (record under oak trees, measured in France on fissured bedrock: 150 m deep, these roots are reported by speleologists, they see water running down these roots, the tree is therefore a quite extraordinary plant, it is The water manager), these roots make it capable of producing in semi-arid regions, where maize requires repeated irrigation which ends up causing the salinisation of the soil and finally leads to the sterilisation of the land.
More than 50 million acres, or 25% of the world's irrigated cropland, have already been ruined by salinisation, so oaks can play a prominent role in restoring this devastated land (reforestation and afforestation integrated with agriculture), and one of the most promising species of sweet acorn oak can tolerate salinisation levels of 2% or more. In Algeria, where barren hills currently dominate the landscape, there is a long history of acorn use (especially in Berber times).
 The decline of the forests, which were destroyed by goats, sheep and over-cutting as a result of the Arab invasions and subsequent over-grazing, was replaced by acorns.
 Acorns were replaced by annual cereal crops, whose annual ploughing caused severe erosion and continued destruction of the originally prosperous land. The forests that once covered 1/3 of the area now occupy less than 1%. (This leads one to believe that it is not only the advance of the Sahara but also its birth that follows and has always followed these same stages
 -
war-deforestation-labour-abandonment). In the USA, villagers across the Midwest had included acorns as a major part of their diet until 1900, and would have continued to use them if the oak forests had not been destroyed by clear-cutting (firewood) and overgrazing.There is an urgent need to reforest all the devastated and denuded land: water does not come from the sky, it comes because trees are there to manage it. NB: various species of sweet acorn oak would also be suitable for reforesting the hillsides of the Far East and Australia.
Quercus mongolice, which grows in Japan, China and Korea, is sweet and very palatable, while Quercus gambelli oak may be of interest in Australia because of its resistance to drought and saline alkaline soils.
PROCESSING BITTER (TANNIN-RICH) ACORNS
Bitter varieties should be left to soak in water to leach out the tannins, in the same way that bitter cassava poisons (prussic acid: cyanide) and soya beans are leached out.
The more bitter the acorns, the longer the flour must be left to soak, and if you are in a hurry, then you must add hot water.
 
Among the Indians of California (Ohlones, Pomo,...) acorns constitute more than half of their diet. The base of each meal was usually acorn porridge, which was cooked with hot stones that boiled the water in a watertight basket, into which the acorn flour was then added. Only a few minutes after putting the stones in, the porridge would boil (the Ohlone did not have clay pots).
 The acorns harvested in autumn (October) were then spread on the ground to be dried by exposure to the sun: they were then stored in a sort of granary which was a large basket on stilts set up outside the huts (as is still seen in Black Africa). They also made a delicious 'rich and oily' acorn bread, which was a favourite food on feast days. Oak acorns are an ideal resource in California. Unlike wheat, corn, barley or rice, acorns do not require tillage, irrigation or any other form of agricultural labour, and although the preparation of acorn flour is time-consuming and labour-intensive, the total labour is probably less than with a grain crop. Finally, the nutritional value of acorns, which is very high, is quite comparable to that of cereals.
The exceptional value of oak acorns helps to explain why the Ohlone and other central California Indians never adopted the agricultural practices of other


« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 04:50:48 PM by Général de GuerreLasse »
La cravate est un accessoire permettant d'indiquer la direction du cerveau de l'homme.
Un petit croquis en dit plus qu'un grand discours, mais beaucoup moins qu'un gros chèque.
Pierre DAC

Général de GuerreLasse

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 63
  • Likes Given: 32
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #173 on: July 21, 2021, 12:02:09 PM »
Here is a link to another book by Marc Bonfils. Unfortunately it is only available in French.

https://www.permatheque.fr/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Marc-Bonfils-Permaculture.pdf
La cravate est un accessoire permettant d'indiquer la direction du cerveau de l'homme.
Un petit croquis en dit plus qu'un grand discours, mais beaucoup moins qu'un gros chèque.
Pierre DAC

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #174 on: July 21, 2021, 05:07:47 PM »
Dear General, I started pecking stone bowls and metates twenty five years ago.  Old stone bowls and pestles get plowed up while farming and relatives had fairly nice collections. I found them sometimes while diving around the Channel Islands as deep as eighty feet underwater. The ocean has risen that much from when those bowls were made. So I started making bowls because I liked them and they connected me to my youth and the distant past. The bowls are just a tool so I started collecting acorns and learned how to leach them and prepare them as food. Then I got pigs and started collecting Lots of acorns. You learn by doing and I learned the different types of acorns, their seasons, which trees produced, and how to process the acorns. I happen to believe we will relearn what we have lost ,or forgotten , when necessity demands it. I have no faith in space travel as our savior , I have no faith in all the things we call progress. Earth will either grind us down and crush our hubris or we will continue to try and live outside nature and kill the life that supports us. I don’t believe there will be much middle ground. We either relearn how to help support life on this planet or we perish. Going back to nature is our one chance but we have to make that choice collectively.
 And since we refuse to make that choice willingly we will be driven there by hunger and violence. And that is our future , not the gismos of our imagination but the nourishment of food processed between two rocks.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 05:30:42 PM by Bruce Steele »

Général de GuerreLasse

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 63
  • Likes Given: 32
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #175 on: July 23, 2021, 05:08:41 PM »
My dear Bruce,
You got me! I was sure you were a horrible cornucopian.That said, not all science is bad. The problem is that most of it is used to provide us with useless objects, dubious services and to feed the egos of billionaires who want to go into space. I agree with you about our future. If we don't prepare ourselves collectively the future could be dystopian.

 Regarding zero carbon agriculture, do you know John Jeavons? His work seems interesting but a bit confusing to me. In particular the double spading which is contrary to everything my friends and I practice (destruction of the earthworm and mycorrhizae networks as well as the death of the surface microbial fauna, 10 cm deep, by asphyxiation after such spading).
)
La cravate est un accessoire permettant d'indiquer la direction du cerveau de l'homme.
Un petit croquis en dit plus qu'un grand discours, mais beaucoup moins qu'un gros chèque.
Pierre DAC

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #176 on: July 24, 2021, 07:25:39 AM »
Dear General, When I see cornucopia I think of a horn shaped basket overflowing with fruit.
https://www.gourmetgiftbaskets.com/Blog/post/cornucopia-story.aspx
Directions actually call for using some acorns to help fill it! 
But otherwise I try to avoid, well you know , progress. But I get lazy too so I packed away the old hair shirt.
I have tried double digging gardens. Vegetables grew very well but what effort I was willing to put into a garden space then and now have changed. I have more space these days and no till and spreading compost better fit how much effort I am willing to expend. Still have to build compost but that is one of the best reasons to keep some livestock around IMO.  I don’t read much about gardening or horticulture. Somehow reading about the arctic takes up way more of my time but I put an honest six hours every day of the year outside , working.  Some days way more. But reading about agriculture, especially modern agriculture, not much.

Général de GuerreLasse

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 63
  • Likes Given: 32
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #177 on: July 25, 2021, 03:24:15 PM »
Dear General, When I see cornucopia I think of a horn shaped basket overflowing with fruit.
https://www.gourmetgiftbaskets.com/Blog/post/cornucopia-story.aspx
Directions actually call for using some acorns to help fill it! 
But otherwise I try to avoid, well you know , progress. But I get lazy too so I packed away the old hair shirt.
I have tried double digging gardens. Vegetables grew very well but what effort I was willing to put into a garden space then and now have changed. I have more space these days and no till and spreading compost better fit how much effort I am willing to expend. Still have to build compost but that is one of the best reasons to keep some livestock around IMO.  I don’t read much about gardening or horticulture. Somehow reading about the arctic takes up way more of my time but I put an honest six hours every day of the year outside , working.  Some days way more. But reading about agriculture, especially modern agriculture, not much.

My dear Bruce,

A sustainable society is one in which people will start sweating again.

(But a sustainable society is not necessarily a stable society.)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 05:31:15 PM by Général de GuerreLasse »
La cravate est un accessoire permettant d'indiquer la direction du cerveau de l'homme.
Un petit croquis en dit plus qu'un grand discours, mais beaucoup moins qu'un gros chèque.
Pierre DAC

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #178 on: December 01, 2021, 06:38:27 AM »
Santa Barbara has been planted with Jelly palms, Chilean Wine palms, Morton bay figs, and other trees that with time get very tall. But it takes over forty years before the Chilean Wine palm first flowers. The nuts are eatable and taste like coconut. The Jelly palm has eatable fruit but it is also very slow growing .
Fresno Calif. is now climatically able to set and ripen date palms. A date palm can be 15 or 20 years old and still only stand a couple meters high.
 Climate planting zones are shifting north and so I have been collecting and germinating date and palm seed from Santa Barbara and planting them sixty miles north here on the farm.  My Chilean wine palms are planted out now after about four years in a greenhouse. I have jelly palms, and a Morton bay fig in the greenhouse. I am also adding bunya trees. Some of these trees should be here in a hundred years. Date palms will ripen fruit here within a few decades but because they take so long to grow I can begin planting them now. So a 3-5 degree increase in temperatures means long lived trees can be planted in advance of the coming heat as long as they aren’t too sensitive to freeze. All the trees and palms I am planting can handle some freeze. As it turns out palms are thirsty so my riparian habitat might be well suited to them . 
 I don’t know how relevant this is to others but I saw medool palms in Fresno today heavily set in dates.
 What mad man planted dates there fifty years ago I am sure gave up his efforts but the trees outlived him and his dreams became someone else’s.

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #179 on: December 01, 2021, 07:42:32 AM »
Excellent. I, too, try to plant for the future, but i shall not live to confirm success in many of my efforts.

sidd

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #180 on: December 01, 2021, 08:06:59 AM »

 What mad man planted dates there fifty years ago I am sure gave up his efforts but the trees outlived him and his dreams became someone else’s.

Bruce!

This is so beautiful.

I sort-of try to do the same and push the climate limits in our much colder environment. I planted figs, persimmons, some heat loving mulberries and grapes. While they do not at all take as long to bear as the palms you wrote about, they have a hard time really ripening (I get 1st crops from figs, but most of the 2nd crop is unsuccesfull due to lack of a long warm autumn; and persimmons ripen only partly and depending on fall temperatures as well; mulberries and figs need to be covered with leaves for the winter etc.). But the plants survive, their root system gets stronger and as the climate gets warmer I think that they will be more and more fruitful.

Anyway, the first snow of the season fell this night. Not yet mediterranean climate but we are moving that way...

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2045
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #181 on: December 01, 2021, 10:21:33 PM »
Same concept in Luxembourg with chestnut trees.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #182 on: December 01, 2021, 11:10:02 PM »
Etienne, Anyone who has planted exotics at the edge of their range has also probably spent a long afternoon/ evening  tenting tender trees with trash cans , scraps of plastic sheet and anything you could find to protect them from a hard freeze warning .  After they are well established and grow beyond the height you can tent them they are on their own and usually much hardier than young stock. It is time for me to plant trees I will never see full grown. I can help them along but it does occasional get cold enough here to freeze a grown avocado tree all the way to the ground so some trees I am planting may survive ten or twenty years and still get hammered some day. I am somewhat worried that the opposite is also true and excessive heat may kill trees otherwise hardy up till temperatures exceed some threshold.

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #183 on: December 02, 2021, 07:57:34 AM »
Bruce ,

what is the average annual minimum temperature there?

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #184 on: December 02, 2021, 10:03:55 AM »
We are called 9b planting zone so about -3.8 C but those planting zones are shifting so our new “normal” average is probably about -2.2. Summers can get hot however and we hit 48.8 a couple years ago. All the trees you are planting like persimmons, figs,  + pineapple guava are hardy here but we are still marginal for most citrus. Many palms however are hardy to -2.2 and even date palms can take nights down to -3.8 on occasion.
 I am still harvesting persimmons and some late pears ( kieffer ) . We haven’t had much of a frost yet and no freezes so far. It is December and it should be our rainy season but it has been warm and only about an inch of rain. Strange weather has kinda sent me into spring fever and some early blooming plum trees have broken dormancy and are in full bloom.
 The holm oaks are just starting to drop acorns but the acorns are very small this year. The amazing thing is the holm oaks seem to produce something every year even in this extended drought.

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #185 on: December 02, 2021, 06:10:34 PM »
The holm oaks are just starting to drop acorns but the acorns are very small this year. The amazing thing is the holm oaks seem to produce something every year even in this extended drought.

Perennials are much more resilient than annuals, and I think climate change is one reason for moving towards more perennial based/food forest/agroforestry type systems. Mixed forest type ecosystems (with or without animals) are much more stable and often need less human intervention. That is why I also try to create a food forest here. Of course I am not trying to live off my land, I know that doing that is pretty hard in any case

etienne

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2045
    • View Profile
    • About energy
  • Liked: 309
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #186 on: December 02, 2021, 09:03:11 PM »
With chestnuts, the problem in Luxembourg is not the survival of the tree, but the size of the fruits. So they have only been planted for ornementales reasons.
What I hope is that in 20 years we will get a good harvest. I won't have much years left to enjoy it, but it gives me a good feeling.

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #187 on: December 02, 2021, 10:37:22 PM »
I have a chestnut tree, likely a seedling. Its fruits are not too big, cca 8-10 g but they are quite delicious. Hybrid chestnuts weigh 30-40 g but are often less tasty. So i do not mind my chestnuts being smallish. I planted a hybrid (Bouche de betizac) and some seeds from my seedling chestnut tree anyway.

uniquorn

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5117
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2163
  • Likes Given: 388
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #188 on: December 17, 2021, 11:05:04 AM »
We are lucky, chestnut trees grow like weeds round here. I am always pulling them out of the beds. This year I'm cutting a lot of them to shoulder height as they are shading the plot too much. Planting garlic this weekend but still waiting for our first heavy frost to dig up the horse radish.
On the 'exotics' front we have an olive in the ground and young avocados, lemon and a banana that we bring in for the winter. Though it is still small, the lemon is fruiting really well for some reason.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 01:13:41 PM by uniquorn »

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #189 on: December 17, 2021, 11:56:23 PM »
Check out this video about a guy who travels in a small wagon pulled by his sheep. He seems rather content and the comments are remarkable in how many people seem to support his ( adventure ) with due respect.




Sorry about advertisements









« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 12:05:57 AM by Bruce Steele »

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #190 on: January 14, 2022, 05:57:31 PM »
So we are getting a little electric tractor for the farm.
https://solectrac.com/cet-electric-tractor
It seems pretty small but getting by with less power means spending less. It will be a large step up in power from my electric wheel hoe.
So with solar , powerwalls, an electric tractor ,and my little e wheelhoe , I should be very close to 100% renewable electric for running my home and farm, refrigeration, freezers, well pumps, farm equipment, and A/C on house.
 Even with rebates the little e tractor costs more than I have ever spent on a vehicle.
 It will never be powerful enough to do heavy tilling so I plan on trying to top dress lots of compost and plant crops that can handle no till. I have one little area that has made three seasons production of spelt ( farro ) with no till and yearly top dressing of compost. It seeds itself.

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #191 on: January 14, 2022, 11:48:37 PM »
Nice. Do let us know detail on performance.

sidd

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #192 on: January 15, 2022, 12:37:18 AM »
Sidd, I would like to think I can maintain my own equipment. That is why I drive old tractors and trucks, no electronics. Buying something brand new and totally electric means I will probably have to trailer it back to Santa Rosa if problems arise. I have no idea how dependable this little tractor will be so I plan to not overtask it. I would like to use it to build compost and pull a spreader around.
 My soil is sandy and lacks organic matter. I have grown a cover crop almost every year for twenty years but my soil is little improved IMO. It dries out +  gets pretty baked every summer and what organic matter there is , seems to disappear.
 We can get free mulch from the county. It needs to be composted but I think I can get the soil into better health by importing carbon rather than trying to build it by putting in annual cover crops. I have a good soil sample so I can compare before and after . Not exactly renewable.
 
 
 
 

Tor Bejnar

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4606
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 879
  • Likes Given: 826
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #193 on: January 15, 2022, 03:39:57 AM »
I've enjoyed reading all your posts here (and elsewhere), Bruce, I've just not had anything to add (before now).

A few days ago I was talking to a friend in 'pure sand on limestone' Wakulla County just south of me.  They've been composting and gardening (a decade or so of goat and chicken poop amendments, too) and their soil doesn't change much, even as their extensive garden is productive. (5 or 10,000 years of pine needle detritus has made nary a dent in the color of their white sand 'soil'.)  They have a chipper on order to take the wood scraps from their 6-month old sawmill with the hope relatively large scale composting will change things.  (One half of the family, with a business partner, makes fine furniture from hardwoods.  We just cut up a 30" (75 cm) diameter red oak from my next door neighbor's yard - the tree was a danger as 6' (2 m) of the trunk had only a 2" (5 cm) rim of solid wood! - There will be beautiful tables in three years...)  Sawdust doesn't compost, basically, because the wood structure is destroyed; wood chips do compost.  (I just make 'brush piles' and let the branches rot - a little slower, but I create great compost.  I also compost kitchen scraps with raked leaves.)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6774
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1047
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #194 on: January 15, 2022, 09:49:35 AM »
I take it you guys have looked at hugelkultur ?

sidd

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #195 on: January 15, 2022, 02:37:59 PM »
I tried hugelkultur and found it quite impractical when it is done the "mound" way, ie. putting big logs on the ground then some nitrogen rich material, eg. grass clippings and then soil on top. It's very hard to weed it, it erodes easily and hard to put plants into it.

I have not tried the other way, ie: first digging a deeper trench and putting old logs there and put the soil on top. Mybe that way the beds are not that high and easier to handle.

Nowadays I have a lot of logs and I just put them around my fruit trees and bushes. They keep weeds down, store a lot of moisture and act as a very long term fertilizer. i have found this easiest.

Maybe Bruce needs to look into fast growing shade trees that would reduce evaporation in the hot Californian summer and supply leaves as a natural fertilizer onto the soil. 

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #196 on: January 16, 2022, 09:13:07 PM »
 I am just hoping I can use the solar powered tractor to go harvest wood chips that I can use to compost some pig poo. Compost created is to improve soil structure and help retain water and nutrients. Yes plant trees and compost around them but waiting to garden under their canopy is probably someone else’s project/ responsibility.
 I have wondered over the years what crops might satisfy a sweet tooth in a foraged diet. It only recently dawned on me that palms can supply lots of sugar.  Pinto palms that are very common in Northern Florida and the very common queen palm in both Calif. and Florida both produce large seed crops that can be prepared into jelly or syrup.
 The 50C heatwave has got me trying to shift long term planting plans. Palms seem obvious. But palms need nutrients and water too. 

Florifulgurator

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 745
  • Virtual world alter ego / अवतार of Martin Gisser
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 236
  • Likes Given: 365
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #197 on: January 16, 2022, 11:15:16 PM »
Re: Slow/no buildup of soil organic carbon.

Similar experiences here in Bavaria. Two fields ruined by decades/centuries of plowing. One is sandy on limestone, the other is clay. The farmers tell me that mulch, compost, manure just go away with almost no impact on soil structure, even after 1-2 decades of trying.

My hunch: It's 1) lack of deep rooting perennials, 2) lack of deep-burrowing earthworms.

What I would try: Not crop-rotating whole fields, but working one field in wandering stripes: Plow one side of the resting stripe, on the other side add a part from the worked stripe. That way a part of the field can always regenerate for several years, and the worms have less distance to cross to migrate back.

I've never seen that anywhere. They always rotate their fields all-or-nothing. Problems perhaps: 1) weed control, 2) unpractical for grazing.
"The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or committed communist, but rather people for whom the difference between facts and fiction, true and false, no longer exists." ~ Hannah Arendt
"Вчи українську це тобі ще знадобиться" ~ Internet

El Cid

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2507
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 923
  • Likes Given: 225
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #198 on: January 17, 2022, 08:55:18 AM »
The 50C heatwave has got me trying to shift long term planting plans. Palms seem obvious. But palms need nutrients and water too.

Since parts of California are often desert-like, date palms could be used, no? And they provide something for your sweet tooth as well :) They also provide shade under which other, smaller trees (like citrus or pomegranate) could be grown. I know that it takes a few years though...

Just thinking loudly, I am not very familiar with your climate and plants. But palms sound great, as they provide dappled shade which is very useful during summer even in a cooler climate like ours in Central Europe. I have found that many vegetables, eg greens and root-vegetables, beans/peas grow very well in a sort of semi-shade environment, when they are partly/fully shaded for a few hours a day but still get a few hours of full sunshine a day.

Bruce Steele

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2503
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 744
  • Likes Given: 40
Re: Zero-Carbon Farming and Living via the Acorn Path
« Reply #199 on: January 22, 2022, 05:41:29 PM »
The Solectrac tractor arrived yesterday. I used the tractor to fill some holes the pigs had left in a pasture. I started with 88% battery worked an hour or so and still had 75% left. I put the tractor on a standard 110volt outlet and with trickle charge and had my batteries back up pretty quickly. I can fast charge on 220volt also but to optimize my energy use I will probably charge the tractor during afternoon hours after the powerwalls are full. Currently solar production goes back to the grid after the powerwall top up each day. We have NET metering so I don’t lose that energy but ideally I would  need neither  grid power nor would I send solar power back to the grid .
 With the Tesla powerwall app I can monitor the charging cycle on the tractor . I plan to charge batteries to about 80% and run them down to 20%. The tractor has 21k stored and the powerwalls have 27k
My solar setup is a standard 5k.
 First three weeks 2022. 330k generated 297k home use  88% of power from solar and 12% from the grid. If there are a few days of clouds the powerwalls can’t quite get a full charge and night time use then comes from the grid. I think the e-tractor will be designed to feed power back to the grid after the utility parts of tractor use get fine tuned. So there are component parts of putting together a solar electric farm. The parts ideally need to work together to maximize energy use when the sun shines and minimize battery use when cloudy weather intervenes. For the most part my farm energy is now solar supplied.
 E-tractor, 9 chest freezers, two refrigerators , agriculture well 150gpm, domestic well, home A/C
Farm operates in the black although the social security check is nice. Probably wouldn’t work if the wife didn’t have a good job.