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JayW

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #800 on: April 17, 2017, 01:07:45 PM »
Chukchi Sea April 13-16, about 78 hours

Suomi VIIRS imagery
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Ninebelowzero

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #801 on: April 17, 2017, 01:42:39 PM »
Very difficult to vector that sort of mobility into any prediction for September.

Shared Humanity

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #802 on: April 17, 2017, 03:12:56 PM »
What is frightening about these animations of the Beaufort and Chukchi is how fractured much of the ice is. Large portions look like rubble.

jai mitchell

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #803 on: April 17, 2017, 05:14:21 PM »
The Beaufort sea is still slightly below last year's record breakup for this day of the melt season.  It should be noted that the Beaufort had many sections of >3+ year ice still remaining (remember 'big block'?) 

There were greater wind events last year and (I suspect) the wind profile for the older ice was more condusive to breakup.  The overwhelming amount of thinner, younger ice in this year's beaufort sea is much more poised to meltout than last year even though the dispersion is (slightly) greater.
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jdallen

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #804 on: April 17, 2017, 05:16:03 PM »
Very difficult to vector that sort of mobility into any prediction for September.
What is frightening about these animations of the Beaufort and Chukchi is how fractured much of the ice is. Large portions look like rubble.
Both true statements.

Also true, 2017 open water in the Chukchi and Bering seas has caught up to and passed 2016 in almost a matter of hours.  Conditions appear extraordinarily volatile.
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romett1

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #805 on: April 17, 2017, 06:17:36 PM »
Worldview is working again, here is ESS Apr 15 - Apr 17. ESS should also have the highest anomalies over the next 7 days. So many interesting areas over Arctic right now.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 06:51:19 PM by romett1 »

Bill Fothergill

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #806 on: April 17, 2017, 08:29:24 PM »
I know that there are many excellent examples being given on this thread demonstrating in exquisite detail how the melt season is progressing.

At a far more "broad-brush" level, and in response to a suggestion from Tor Bejnar, here is an updated version of a stacked bar chart showing how many "lowest 3 values for the date" are currently logged against the various years.

Here is a quick overview as to how one interprets the chart, and changes from the previous version.

1) Only 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015, 2016 and 2017 have meaningful numbers in the "lowest 3" categories, so all other years have been lumped together as "misc".

2) With the (hopefully) obvious exceptions of 2016 and 2017, each of the years has a group of 5 columns.

3) The first column in each year group shows the status at the end of 2015 - for the particular year indicated.

4) The second column shows the status at the end of 2016. The difference between cols 1 and cols 2 for each year therefore equates to the change wrought during 2016.

5) The third column shows the status as at the day/date indicated on the bottom right of the chart. The difference between this and the second column therefore indicates the impact that 2017 has had thus far.

6) The fourth column (marked "locked") indicates the number of "lowest 3" positions that have already been confirmed at the date the chart was generated. (In this case, Day 106, or 16th April)

7) The fifth column (marked "vulnerable") indicates the additional numbers that could hypothetically still be clocked up by December 31st 2017 - as long as there are no changes to positions from the equivalent dates last year. However, every additional day that 2017 has in the "lowest 3" will adversely impact at least one of the previous years.


For example, the first group of 5 relates to 2006. It can be seen that 2017 has already seen slightly more overall losses from the "lowest 3" than experienced in all of 2016. Additionally, although approximately half of the current instances have been "locked" by Day 106, approximately the same number could still be lost during the remainder of the year - i.e. they are vulnerable.

On the other hand, although 2010 lost ground during 2016, it has seen absolutely no change yet during 2017.


I hope this might help with the big picture perspective.


Tor Bejnar

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #807 on: April 17, 2017, 08:47:11 PM »
Very interesting, indeed, Bill.  (And for others: Bill took what I suggested [and ideas from others] and flew with it - my great idea ::) was under-developed when suggested  OR   if you don't like the changes, don't blame me ;D)
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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #808 on: April 17, 2017, 10:22:59 PM »
Great chart.  One more idea... fwiw:  If you went 3D and made the z axis the ytd measure.  So the 3D chart grows in depth each day of the year.

Thomas Barlow

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #809 on: April 18, 2017, 01:16:18 AM »

P.S. As visible from the forecast in the post just above, Scandinavia and much of North America landmasses are currently doing about the same thing, and will keep at it at even bigger negative anomaly than central Russia for the next few days: "stealing" cold from the Arctic, and warming all the air up extra fast whereever there is no snow cover already.

Same situation here in Tallinn, Estonia (900 km north-west from Moscow). By the way, this situation extends well into next week, latest temp anomalies Apr 18 - Apr 24 (GFS, Climate Reanalyzer).


Not good news.
Arctic seems completely overheated most of the time.
If the average temperature is still well below freezing, does it matter about winter anomaly in the short term? Obviously not a good indication for summer or long-term, but freezing is freezing, so does it make a big difference? Yet?

Michael Hauber

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #810 on: April 18, 2017, 01:44:14 AM »
An interesting bit also is that the heat flow from the Atlantic peaked in 2007/2008 and has decreased slightly since.

Where does the time period end?

The data goes to 2016.  On further reading I've noticed that while temperature of the Atlantic water deeper down peaked (obviously temporarily) in 2007/2008 temps higher up in the Arctic waters have increased further since then, as mixing of this deeper water has increased in recent years.
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Archimid

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #811 on: April 18, 2017, 02:13:35 AM »
If the average temperature is still well below freezing, does it matter about winter anomaly in the short term? Obviously not a good indication for summer or long-term, but freezing is freezing, so does it make a big difference? Yet?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it does. The ice can get much colder than the freezing point. I imagine -30C ice would resist the melting season longer than -10C ice. Also I imagine that warmer ice have different physical characteristics as colder ice.
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Chuck Yokota

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #812 on: April 18, 2017, 02:47:13 AM »
What Archimid said. Also, someone earlier gave the rule of thumb that seawater won't freeze above -10C due to mechanical effects. And ice will get thicker faster the lower the temperature goes.

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #813 on: April 18, 2017, 03:38:13 AM »
The actual energy required to melt colder ice is nominal, but feedbacks are literally all about second order effects, and those are really gnarly here.  I would expect our myriad satellite watchers to have more intuition about ice "rottenness" than anyone else.

Processes like brine rejection almost certainly take longer than anywhere has left at this point, though.  If we talk about ice quality in terms of the number of winters it takes to get properly seasoned, a month after vernal equinox is not likely to satisfy no matter what the weather does from here.

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oren

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #814 on: April 18, 2017, 06:52:14 AM »
What Archimid said. Also, someone earlier gave the rule of thumb that seawater won't freeze above -10C due to mechanical effects. And ice will get thicker faster the lower the temperature goes.
The main effect is ice not thickening enough, in the central arctic ice continues to thicken until May if I am not mistaken, and at -15oc it will thicken less and more slowly than at -30oc.

jdallen

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #815 on: April 18, 2017, 07:14:04 AM »
A stark illustration of how difficult our situation is.

Two daylight captures of the northern Bering, Chukchi, eastern ESS and Western Beaufort.

First is 04/17/2016

Second is 04/17/2017.

[Edit: Added for comparison, 05/17/2016]
[ADDITIONAL edit - I got the name stamps wrong on two of the images. 
From top to bottom:
2016-04-17
2017-04-17
2016-05-17
]
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 07:20:27 AM by jdallen »
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DuraSpec

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #816 on: April 18, 2017, 12:51:41 PM »
A stark illustration of how difficult our situation is.

Incredible! 3 pictures worth an untold number of words over the years.

Thank you for showing everyone.

iceman

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #817 on: April 18, 2017, 01:43:10 PM »
Chukchi Sea April 13-16, about 78 hours
   A striking view of a rare occurrence.

Very difficult to vector that sort of mobility into any prediction for September.
   Same for me.  I suppose the open areas will refreeze as the season is still quite early in Chukchi, but it seems likely the structural and thermal damage will be more lasting.

seaicesailor

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #818 on: April 18, 2017, 02:21:10 PM »
Chukchi Sea April 13-16, about 78 hours
   A striking view of a rare occurrence.

Very difficult to vector that sort of mobility into any prediction for September.
   Same for me.  I suppose the open areas will refreeze as the season is still quite early in Chukchi, but it seems likely the structural and thermal damage will be more lasting.

Also, I suspect there has been flow of Pacific water from south along the asian side (of the Pacific) into the Bering sea since Feb/March, which has been stagnating in the Bering sea, since the clearing of Bering sea ice up to the Bering strait has proceeded as a tongue entering from that side. Hycom indeed seemed to suggest such flow. Now this water could pour into the Arctic, representing the first significant pulse of water into the Arctic pretty early in the season.
See JAXA ice melt animation starting Mar 1

Neven

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #819 on: April 18, 2017, 02:36:15 PM »
A stark illustration of how difficult our situation is.

Two daylight captures of the northern Bering, Chukchi, eastern ESS and Western Beaufort.

Over on the Home brew AMSR2 thread Wipneus posted the following animation:



Wip writes: Chukchi-ESS 2017 compared with 2016. Although some characteristics appear similar, the 2017 images show more breaking and "torching".
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Jim Williams

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #820 on: April 18, 2017, 04:16:38 PM »
The MASIE Time Series Plots do seem to be indicating the Pacific side is opening up.

Andreas T

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #821 on: April 18, 2017, 04:34:20 PM »
last year (Feb / Mar 2016) there was a lot of movement of ice westward compacting and thickening against the siberian coast east of Wrangel island. The lack of this movement  makes the thickness there so much different (i.e. thinner this year) as seen in PIOMAS and in cryosat. This should show itself in the melt season which last year had a marked stall in June (red line is 2016)
https://14adebb0-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/arctischepinguin/home/amsr2/grf/amsr2-extent-regional.png
I tracked some of that compaction last year:
..... I have looked at deformation of ice in the western Chukchi sea where PIOMAS and cryosat are showing surprisingly thick ice.
The images are AMSR-2 brightness temperature on worldview http://go.nasa.gov/1XXcE1b
Although I don't think I can relate the colours shown to thickness or other clearly identifiable parameters of the ice, they do show up persistent features which help tracking movement over long periods and through clouds. Unfortunately there are no AMSR-2 images in worldview before 12 Jan 2016.
I have marked some features which show a reduction in area between these features and therefore an increase in thickness, because at that time of the year volume does not decrease.
I expect that to happen through formation of ridges so that the average thickness includes first year ice with thickness below 2m together with overriding and tilted floe edges which form  the much thicker ridges.
dates are shown in file names: 4 Feb, 20 Feb, 5 Mar, 21 Mar
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 05:43:21 PM by Andreas T »

seaicesailor

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #822 on: April 18, 2017, 05:52:51 PM »
last year (Feb / Mar 2016) there was a lot of movement of ice westward compacting and thickening against the siberian coast east of Wrangel island. The lack of this movement  makes the thickness there so much different (i.e. thinner this year) as seen in PIOMAS and in cryosat. This should show itself in the melt season which last year had a marked stall in June (red line is 2016)
https://14adebb0-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/arctischepinguin/home/amsr2/grf/amsr2-extent-regional.png
I tracked some of that compaction last year:
..... I have looked at deformation of ice in the western Chukchi sea where PIOMAS and cryosat are showing surprisingly thick ice.
The images are AMSR-2 brightness temperature on worldview http://go.nasa.gov/1XXcE1b
Although I don't think I can relate the colours shown to thickness or other clearly identifiable parameters of the ice, they do show up persistent features which help tracking movement over long periods and through clouds. Unfortunately there are no AMSR-2 images in worldview before 12 Jan 2016.
I have marked some features which show a reduction in area between these features and therefore an increase in thickness, because at that time of the year volume does not decrease.
I expect that to happen through formation of ridges so that the average thickness includes first year ice with thickness below 2m together with overriding and tilted floe edges which form  the much thicker ridges.
dates are shown in file names: 4 Feb, 20 Feb, 5 Mar, 21 Mar
Definitely last year there was an stagnation of ice around the Chukchi/ESS sector of the CAB and the ESS that is not present this year. Perhaps the fact that during april there has been such a massive drift toward Atlantic/Fram while last year the flow was a bit different.
The ECMWF hints of yet three of four days of vigorous transpolar drift. The CFS weekly prediction nicely represented by TropicalTidbits kind of agrees with the nice "textbook" pattern of the coming days, less vigorous in the pacific side but massive still thanks to a low over Scandinavia coupling with the overall Arctic high pressure

oren

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #823 on: April 18, 2017, 08:27:49 PM »
Definitely last year there was an stagnation of ice around the Chukchi/ESS sector of the CAB and the ESS that is not present this year. Perhaps the fact that during april there has been such a massive drift toward Atlantic/Fram while last year the flow was a bit different.
Yes, the non-stop export towards the Atlantic gutted the arctic ocean leaving behind what seems like the same area and extent, but in reality thinner and weaker .

romett1

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #824 on: April 18, 2017, 08:50:04 PM »
Some major cracks north of Ellesmere Island and Nares Strait have appeared overnight. Currently there are stronger winds (15 m/s) and warmer temps approaching as well. Image: http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/kennedy.uk.php

meddoc

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #825 on: April 18, 2017, 09:11:36 PM »
Some major cracks north of Ellesmere Island and Nares Strait have appeared overnight. Currently there are stronger winds (15 m/s) and warmer temps approaching as well. Image: http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/kennedy.uk.php

This is very, very bad timing.
No wonder why the US is currently playing Nuclear Chicken with NK (& of course Russia and China).

JimboOmega

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #826 on: April 18, 2017, 09:17:04 PM »
If the average temperature is still well below freezing, does it matter about winter anomaly in the short term? Obviously not a good indication for summer or long-term, but freezing is freezing, so does it make a big difference? Yet?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it does. The ice can get much colder than the freezing point. I imagine -30C ice would resist the melting season longer than -10C ice. Also I imagine that warmer ice have different physical characteristics as colder ice.

This is true but bear in mind that the energy associated with melting is far greater than the energy associated with heating.  Ice has a specific heat of 2.05kJ/kg*degree, while to melt it requires 333 kJ/kg

So to melt a kilogram of -30C ice would take ~393 kJ, while for -10C ice the figure is ~353kJ. Not a big difference really.

The reality with these air temps at this time of year is that newly exposed seawater (polynya, etc) can't refreeze. That's the biggest difference. Things can open up early and start soaking up that warm sunshine.  Since the temps are pretty close to freezing the atmosphere won't play too big a role for now.  (Later they can induce melt ponds and cause preconditioning, which is a whole separate thing)

rboyd

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #827 on: April 18, 2017, 11:04:30 PM »
Graph of relationship of temperature to the rate of increase in ice depth (for lake ice, but assume it holds relatively well for sea ice). The article also has a quite clear description of FDD's - I could follow it, so it must be pretty clear!

"Freezing degree days (FDD) are the average number of degrees below freezing over 24 hours. For example if the average temperature over a day is 17 degrees [fahrenheit] that day had fifteen FDDs"

http://lakeice.squarespace.com/ice-growth/

mati

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #828 on: April 19, 2017, 12:38:50 AM »
The ice on the great lakes is going.. on my lake it is candling and should be gone in a week...

oh, about candling...
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/climate/summaries_and_publications/ice_out_description.html
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 12:49:55 AM by mati »
and so it goes

oren

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #829 on: April 19, 2017, 01:10:52 AM »
Some major cracks north of Ellesmere Island and Nares Strait have appeared overnight. Currently there are stronger winds (15 m/s) and warmer temps approaching as well.
I think the Beaufort Gyre is back, looking at the various recent animations. And Hycom Nowcast https://www7320.nrlssc.navy.mil/hycomARC/navo/arcticictn_nowcast_anim30d.gif shows the thick ice north of Ellesmere suddenly pulling westward in the last few days, after being swept towards the east for a long time. I bet this is what caused the sudden cracks, as the Ellesmere part pulled west while the Greenland part continued east.
I wonder if this could cause an early collapse of the Lincoln Sea "arch" blocking export to Nares Strait.

Tigertown

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #830 on: April 19, 2017, 02:29:38 AM »
Quote
I think the Beaufort Gyre is back

I was just thinking exactly that.
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Bruce Steele

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #831 on: April 19, 2017, 04:52:25 AM »
Tigertown, I never saw any evidence the Beaufort Gyre had stopped. From the post I made on Mar. 31 ITP 98 has moved from 55.99 to it's current location at 55.56 The buoy track line never showed anything but clockwise drift and neither did the other two ITP buoys reporting locations in the Beaufort.


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Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2017 melting season
« on: March 31, 2017, 07:39:58 AM »
Tigertown, There are still four ITP WHOI buoys reporting locations. Three in the Beaufort gyre 97, 98, 99 and  93 trapped into fast ice on the north coast of Svalbard.  The thing I find intriguing  is that none of the reporting buoys in the Beaufort gyre show the Northwest thick ice drift modeled in your last post. I have to believe buoys sending real time data over models in this case.
 I like to watch the temp /salinity contours but sadly we only have one of the above listed buoys still sending T/S profiles this year.

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=155136

This buoy is sitting just North of McClure Strait and should show northward drift if the model was representing current conditions

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=155156
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seaicesailor

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #832 on: April 19, 2017, 07:44:37 AM »
Tigertown, I never saw any evidence the Beaufort Gyre had stopped. From the post I made on Mar. 31 ITP 98 has moved from 55.99 to it's current location at 55.56 The buoy track line never showed anything but clockwise drift and neither did the other two ITP buoys reporting locations in the Beaufort.


19
Arctic sea ice / Re: The 2017 melting season
« on: March 31, 2017, 07:39:58 AM »
Tigertown, There are still four ITP WHOI buoys reporting locations. Three in the Beaufort gyre 97, 98, 99 and  93 trapped into fast ice on the north coast of Svalbard.  The thing I find intriguing  is that none of the reporting buoys in the Beaufort gyre show the Northwest thick ice drift modeled in your last post. I have to believe buoys sending real time data over models in this case.
 I like to watch the temp /salinity contours but sadly we only have one of the above listed buoys still sending T/S profiles this year.

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=155136

This buoy is sitting just North of McClure Strait and should show northward drift if the model was representing current conditions

http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=155156
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Bruce, candid question: shouldn't we distinguish between ice drift, and the ocean current in the case of the Gyre?. The first has not shown a net clockwise pattern from December to March  (or at least really visible; maybe averaged over many days it is possible), the second, I cannot say but I assume it is there, still in with net clockwise sense, perhaps in a weakened phase... should take many years to stop or reverse the Gyre (ocean current)

Tigertown

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #833 on: April 19, 2017, 07:55:19 AM »
Quote
the second, I cannot say but I assume it is there, still in with net clockwise sense, perhaps in a weakened phase... should take many years to stop or reverse the Gyre (ocean current)

That was kind of my thoughts. I didn't really mean that it had gone completely so much, as just hadn't really exerted itself that much recently. Even at that, it was just a casual observation in agreement with oren. I didn't intend to make more of it than that.
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subgeometer

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #834 on: April 19, 2017, 08:55:27 AM »
A view of the area south of a line between FJI(top left) and Svalbard(bottom left} from april2-18 shows the smashed up pack that has been pushed out into the Barents blowing back and forward and melting - with huge area of melt - 100km deep at times on the margin

I've included a larger still from April 8.

The area is going to cop a fair bit of wind from about 48hrs out  for a day or two. The wind will also be pulling away from the Siberian coast during its heatwave

(One interesting feature of worldview is that images downloaded thru its 'camera' interface have the date encoded in a TIME parameter in the url as the year and day in a n integer as YYYYDDD - eg April 12 as 2017102 allowing easy retrieval of a region (etc) over a period either in a browser or with a script - Is there a thread where image retrieval and animation are discussed?)

romett1

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #835 on: April 19, 2017, 09:36:41 AM »
Warm temperatures forecasted until at least Apr 26 over ESS, Laptev, North Pole and Chukchi Sea (GFS, Climate Reanalyzer).

Neven

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #836 on: April 19, 2017, 11:50:09 AM »
NH snow cover shooting up now (mostly due to snowfall in Canada):
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Gray-Wolf

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #837 on: April 19, 2017, 12:56:55 PM »
every time we see a cold plunge we see the Arctic lose its cold. if this is to continue in toward May even the last chance of growth in the central basin will have been tempered.

I'm sure we can now expect snowballs in the senate as both Canada and Western Europe endure a late cold snap but by the end of that we will be entering the first phase of melt season proper and see our first run of major losses.

With both Beaufort and ESS looking really poor how much open water will we have by June?
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gerontocrat

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #838 on: April 19, 2017, 04:13:11 PM »
every time we see a cold plunge we see the Arctic lose its cold. if this is to continue in toward May even the last chance of growth in the central basin will have been tempered.

I'm sure we can now expect snowballs in the senate as both Canada and Western Europe endure a late cold snap but by the end of that we will be entering the first phase of melt season proper and see our first run of major losses.

With both Beaufort and ESS looking really poor how much open water will we have by June?
And while Canada and W. Europe have a cold snap warmth invades the high Arctic for the nth time, where n is a surprisingly large number.
And weather-forecast.com predicts a windy time in a southerly direction down the Fram and Denmark straits for the next few days.
Ps: I think that maybe snowballs in the senate are not so effective anymore.
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Tigertown

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #839 on: April 19, 2017, 04:59:29 PM »
subgeometer
Quote
Is there a thread where image retrieval and animation are discussed?
Yes, to the animation part, anyway.

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1259.msg89520.html#msg89520
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bbr2314

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #840 on: April 19, 2017, 05:23:52 PM »
NH snow cover shooting up now (mostly due to snowfall in Canada):

Volume-wise, the uptick has also been singificant, wayyyy beyond +1SD at this point, that is a huge anomaly!



Seems to be led by NE Siberia, Quebec, and the Western Himalayas:


bairgon

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #841 on: April 19, 2017, 06:51:43 PM »
Some major cracks north of Ellesmere Island and Nares Strait have appeared overnight.

There are also smaller cracks above the Nares arch - see https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.gov/?p=arctic&l=VIIRS_SNPP_CorrectedReflectance_TrueColor(hidden),MODIS_Aqua_CorrectedReflectance_TrueColor(hidden),MODIS_Terra_CorrectedReflectance_TrueColor,Reference_Labels(hidden),Reference_Features(hidden),Coastlines&t=2017-04-18&z=3&v=-335502.5695521517,-818827.6264782081,-89742.56955215175,-692747.6264782081 and gif below.

This also shows that the month-old ice in the polynya has given way.

There is also a crack on the coast of Greenland (explore on Worldview using link above).

Tigertown

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #842 on: April 19, 2017, 07:08:28 PM »
Uni-Bremen is back up. Mr. Artie C. Ice is not looking too great.
"....and the appointed time came for God to bring to ruin those ruining the earth." Revelation 11:18.

Neven

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #843 on: April 19, 2017, 07:33:38 PM »
Seems to be led by NE Siberia, Quebec, and the Western Himalayas:

Keep an eye on those Western Himalayas, especially during summer.  ;)
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Random_Weather

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #844 on: April 19, 2017, 08:01:19 PM »
Neven,

Yes, therefor i use the finnish service for Snowmass, because they cutting out mountain sides: http://www.globsnow.info/swe/GCW/


nukefix

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #845 on: April 19, 2017, 08:32:28 PM »
Neven,

Yes, therefor i use the finnish service for Snowmass, because they cutting out mountain sides: http://www.globsnow.info/swe/GCW/

AFAIK the Globsnow algorithm is the best-in-business currently.

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #846 on: April 19, 2017, 09:40:21 PM »
Here's an Uni Hamburg AMSR2 SIC animation of the Beaufort, with some more detail because of highest resolution:
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bbr2314

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #847 on: April 19, 2017, 10:33:24 PM »
Seems to be led by NE Siberia, Quebec, and the Western Himalayas:

Keep an eye on those Western Himalayas, especially during summer.  ;)
I will! I think there is definitely a possibility you are correct re: error, but I have also found an abundance of writing that signals the Western Himalayas (and Karakorum specifically) reversed the trends of glacial recession sometime around 2000, with mass-loss halted entirely and even reversed in the period 2000-2010. If that is the case, then we are building on snowcover year over year in some of these spots, which could also be an explanation for the abundance of purples. Can't wait to read more research into this phenomenon one way or the other.

mati

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #848 on: April 19, 2017, 10:51:33 PM »
could it be that the increased water vapour content of the atmosphere will result in more snow being deposited on high altitude glaciers?
and so it goes

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #849 on: April 19, 2017, 11:22:18 PM »
could it be that the increased water vapour content of the atmosphere will result in more snow being deposited on high altitude glaciers?

That would be a good thing.