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Tigertown

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1800 on: June 06, 2017, 05:54:54 PM »
This area got worse in a short time,
The NP is left and down, FJL past the far right.

magnamentis

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1801 on: June 06, 2017, 07:02:55 PM »
Any chance we see an eye of open water form at the poll in a week or so?

hoping for your sense of humor, including at my own costs, the "poll" reminds me of my "poodle" lapsus LOL
 ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :-[

seaicesailor

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1802 on: June 06, 2017, 09:04:07 PM »
The ACNFS ice drift forecast for the next six days. A lot of action (and compaction) in the Pacific side, ending with an ugly pulse over Laptev sea. That can end with the coldness there in a single blow if it verifies.

Neven

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1803 on: June 06, 2017, 11:26:49 PM »
NH snow cover anomaly for May (from Diablobanquisa's blog):



Quite the positive anomaly, eh? The first one in 12 years.
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bbr2314

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1804 on: June 07, 2017, 12:09:45 AM »
NH snow cover anomaly for May (from Diablobanquisa's blog):



Quite the positive anomaly, eh? The first one in 12 years.
seems that the positive uptick i was anticipating as possible is now a reality... but how temporary will it be and will it worsen in subsequent years? i suspect the correlation wrt volume is direct...

Tigertown

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1805 on: June 07, 2017, 12:51:52 AM »
                                                  ALERT!
The Arctic is about to be invaded by a lot of warmer than normal air at surface level, starting in the Wrangel Island area, just about, oh, right now. After that it will spread throughout the Arctic, one area at a time, including the New Siberian Islands about two days out. At one point even the N.P. will go above freezing. I don't know how much damage all this will do in and of itself, but it can't help.

P.S. One spot at Wrangel Island just now showed up as 8.4oC. That is the surface air temp. 1000 mb is about the same, so it is not just a warm breeze, but a body of warm air. Air over Alaska is around 9oC as high as 850 mb. Looks to be flowing from Canada, and freely at that.

Geoff

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1806 on: June 07, 2017, 01:23:34 AM »
Any chance we see an eye of open water form at the poll in a week or so?

None. I'm pretty confident this is noise - you don't see anything on WorldView or any other source. Usually this is melt ponding (not open water)... But it's too cold for that there.



Just had a thought - melt ponding is reliant on the ice being solid and thick enough for a pond to form on top of it, right? If it's all fractured like it is in it's current state then there is less opportunity for a pond to form, as still water would filter through the cracks in the ice?

Would that be boosting previous years readings in terms of area melt?

Bruce Steele

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1807 on: June 07, 2017, 02:26:11 AM »
Tigertown, I have been watching temperatures at Red Dog Dock north of Kotzebue. Temperatures there have been as high as 72 F ( yesterday at 4:30 PM ) with other days in a similar range for the last several days.

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=rdda2

I wish the water temperature gauge was working at Red Dog this year. There are water temp readings from Nome . Nome water temperature hit 41.4 yesterday at 11:00 PM.




oren

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1808 on: June 07, 2017, 08:24:58 AM »
It occurs to me, not for the first time, that this year is another interesting experiment in arctic sea ice dynamics, as to the question what is more important for the melting season:
A. Extreme preconditioning a la 2012
B. Extreme early open water/low extent a la 2016
C. Extreme thinness/low volume a la 2017.

(Of course weather has a huge effect which I shall promptly ignore).
We already know that B was far from enough for a record low September extent, although it did much better in Sep area,  and it certainly won the category of lowest autumn refreeze.
In 3 months we will know if the wildcard C is an ace. No A and no B this year. The brain says volume is the most important predictor, but as extent keeps trailing the gut says this might be another "lame horse" running for number 2 spot. Interesting indeed.
(My money is still on record low Sep, at least for volume, but a June cliff is a must)

Pmt111500

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1809 on: June 07, 2017, 09:35:34 AM »
Just had a thought - melt ponding is reliant on the ice being solid and thick enough for a pond to form on top of it, right? If it's all fractured like it is in it's current state then there is less opportunity for a pond to form, as still water would filter through the cracks in the ice?

Would that be boosting previous years readings in terms of area melt?

This would be an issue that has occurred to me too. I don't have knowledge of this issue since the ice here on the southern extreme of the Baltic ice usually doesn't get thick enough to contain large melt ponds for long. The Arctic Ocean is also more restless than the shores here. It could be the meltponds nowadays just break a route and spill to the ocean straight away. My guess is we'll see melt ponding on the sat images soon but not in the extent of June cliff in previous years. I'd place the high nunerical drops in extent and area to July-August. Do we see over 300000 lost in a single day? Oh, the exitement. ???
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Tigertown

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1810 on: June 07, 2017, 09:47:54 AM »
Normally I argue with those who say extent is a worthless gauge of sea ice conditions. I mean, most of the time, we simply can't get by without extent numbers. However, right now, extent regarding Arctic sea ice is the most meaningless that it has ever been or probably ever will be. A little test or two , will soon show that. And how!

wallen

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1811 on: June 07, 2017, 10:13:17 AM »
On the 28th of Feb, I asked that given the very sad state of ice, would preconditioning by melt ponds have much if any signifigance this year. I got one response from Gray-Wolf, which I tend to agree with. Any further thoughts anyone ?

Thawing Thunder

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1812 on: June 07, 2017, 10:28:26 AM »
It occurs to me, not for the first time, that this year is another interesting experiment in arctic sea ice dynamics, as to the question what is more important for the melting season:
A. Extreme preconditioning a la 2012
B. Extreme early open water/low extent a la 2016
C. Extreme thinness/low volume a la 2017.

Probably we'll see next A/B, A/C, B/C and A/B/C combinations. Not a good outlook.

Normally I argue with those who say extent is a worthless gauge of sea ice conditions. I mean, most of the time, we simply can't get by without extent numbers. However, right now, extent regarding Arctic sea ice is the most meaningless that it has ever been or probably ever will be. A little test or two , will soon show that. And how!

You mean what some here call the "Hudson-Bay-effect" of thin FYI melting away? Then I agree.

I got one response from Gray-Wolf, which I tend to agree with.

Your comment was a bit cryptic, but after a little search I found what Grey Wolf wrote. I resume:

The fractioning of the ice doesn't allow big melt ponding anymore. But the fractioning itself also strongly favors the melt of the ice.

From my layman's point of view that seems convincing.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 01:02:45 PM by Thawing Thunder »
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seaicesailor

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1813 on: June 07, 2017, 10:49:11 AM »
It occurs to me, not for the first time, that this year is another interesting experiment in arctic sea ice dynamics, as to the question what is more important for the melting season:
A. Extreme preconditioning a la 2012
B. Extreme early open water/low extent a la 2016
C. Extreme thinness/low volume a la 2017.

Probably we'll see next A/B, A/C, B/C and A/B/C combinations. Not a good outlook.

I was thinking just the same, the probability of A/B/C is still nonzero, but may plummet after this weekend if the ominous forecast don't verify
I would say we can see a pretty bad B already, all openings of the Pacific side combined. The gradual drift of ice toward the Atlantic during April and May combined have been extraordinary.

Neven

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1814 on: June 07, 2017, 11:04:36 AM »
The ECMWF forecast keeps showing high pressure over the Pacific-American side of the Arctic, shifting towards Siberia. Maybe after day 6 there is a tunnel at the end of the light.
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be cause

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1815 on: June 07, 2017, 12:15:29 PM »
..  a very well lit tunnel with a disintegrating floor . I read a while back an expedition was pole - bound . Hardly a husky and sled world there any more .. ( probably never was .. ). b.c.
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binntho

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1816 on: June 07, 2017, 12:16:30 PM »

Just had a thought - melt ponding is reliant on the ice being solid and thick enough for a pond to form on top of it, right? If it's all fractured like it is in it's current state then there is less opportunity for a pond to form, as still water would filter through the cracks in the ice?

Would that be boosting previous years readings in terms of area melt?
Tor Bejnar posted a comment a few days ago that describes how melt ponds form on porous ice. Apparently the water melting on the surface plugs any holes in the underlying ice very rapidly.

Any ice floe of say 1 meter thickness should be able to form and hold melt ponds, even if the ice is fractured and porous, since the holes/fractures would be quite small.
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F.Tnioli

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1817 on: June 07, 2017, 12:38:04 PM »
It's all about size.

If ice is fractured into pieces which are tenths of thousands square meters large (and bigger), then sure some melt ponds will be drained "through the edges" of every such piece, but percentage of melt ponds which will be "gone" because of such a drainage will be rather small. If the field is being compacted, such effect will be insignicant; if the field is not being compacted, then open water "leads" between ice pieces will pretty much compensate (in terms of albedo lowering) for such a "somewhat less melt ponds present on ice" due to fragmentation. So in any case, i doubt any significance for such relatively "big pieces" fields would occur because of this mechanic.

If ice is fractured into pieces some hundreds square meters large (and smaller), then it's pretty much no melt ponding at all of any significant scale, yes. Can't "freeze drainage channels" when such channels are edges of ice pieces, with plenty open water being "the other side". But then, wave action and very soon "slush" state is what will be doing such ice in. I'd rather prefer ponds than that.

Tigertown

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1818 on: June 07, 2017, 12:43:46 PM »
@binntho
Quote
Apparently the water melting on the surface plugs any holes in the underlying ice very rapidly.
That would work until the point that a fracture becomes a rift. The state the ice is in is really so incomparable to past years. Plus, You really have to think that small floes=small ponds. Maybe hard to see by satellite.

F. Tnioli said it better.

Clenchie

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1819 on: June 07, 2017, 12:48:48 PM »
The New NSIDC sea ice concentration map is a useful addition to the SIE one.

You can see it here:

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

It gives the percentage sea ice concentration rather than the whole extent over 15%, which makes much more sense given the volume decline.
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F.Tnioli

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1820 on: June 07, 2017, 01:46:59 PM »
You mean this one?



I took the liberty of highlighting an area next to the pole which has some 200+ (eye-balling) pixels which are some 75%...90% ice concentration. What's each pixel worth? 16x16 km, 25x25 km? Lots of lowered albedo not far from the pole anyhow. Insolate that area well, and it'll be 100% blue in a ~month, i bet.

Anyhow, someone asked about whether it's possible we'll get an "eye" at the pole at some point. Someone else replied about some glitches in some other map, "it'll be gone next day". Whelp, seems that isn't the case. Something's really going on, eh?

binntho

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1821 on: June 07, 2017, 02:18:46 PM »
It's all about size.

If ice is fractured into pieces which are tenths of thousands square meters large (and bigger), then sure some melt ponds will be drained "through the edges" of every such piece, but percentage of melt ponds which will be "gone" because of such a drainage will be rather small. If the field is being compacted, such effect will be insignicant; if the field is not being compacted, then open water "leads" between ice pieces will pretty much compensate (in terms of albedo lowering) for such a "somewhat less melt ponds present on ice" due to fragmentation. So in any case, i doubt any significance for such relatively "big pieces" fields would occur because of this mechanic.

I'm not sure I follow this logic. How do you drain "through the edges"? Do you mean the water runs off the edge of the floe? Melt water ponds (and lakes) on ice sheets eventually melt downwards, creating their own drains.

Sea ice does not have a smooth surface, like lake ice. The surface is usually shlushy due to snow accumulation and even salt spray, and as soon as even a very small amount of melt water forms on the surface it starts soaking in energy, melting down and thinning the ice. Small ice floes will probably split due to structural weakening, but larger floes will eventually drain downwards, into the ocean, i.e. if the ice is thin enough.

If ice is fractured into pieces some hundreds square meters large (and smaller), then it's pretty much no melt ponding at all of any significant scale, yes. Can't "freeze drainage channels" when such channels are edges of ice pieces, with plenty open water being "the other side". But then, wave action and very soon "slush" state is what will be doing such ice in. I'd rather prefer ponds than that.

The significance of melt ponds must be in the percentage of their overall coverage, rather than in their individual size. A melt pond 1 meter across is just as bad for the underlying ice as another 100 meters across. Melt ponds have much lower albedo than ice, as we all know, and I can't really see a floe of hundreds of square meters acting differently than another of thousands of square meters.
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seaicesailor

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1822 on: June 07, 2017, 02:23:02 PM »
Hudson bay ice is as usual, and as usual the sat can perceive the change of color on large small or near-resolution size floes (which is quite large).  a snapshot:
https://go.nasa.gov/2sSwEXk
Tnioli, I don't know what you are talking about.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 02:29:19 PM by seaicesailor »

Neven

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1823 on: June 07, 2017, 02:38:53 PM »
Discuss melt ponds in general somewhere else, please.

Quote
Anyhow, someone asked about whether it's possible we'll get an "eye" at the pole at some point. Someone else replied about some glitches in some other map, "it'll be gone next day". Whelp, seems that isn't the case. Something's really going on, eh?

Actually, no, it's gone (my rule of thumb with Uni Bremen SIC maps is that pink/yellow/green colours need to persist at least for three days to be a sign of something like open water or melt ponding):
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F.Tnioli

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1824 on: June 07, 2017, 03:10:26 PM »
I didn't mean it's not gone on Bremen; i had no idea it is, thanks for showing it's gone, sure; what i meant is that NSIDC showing light-blue "there" too. If even _those_ guys do... You know? But sure, this was a question, only. May be it's all solid and dry ice there, while both Bremen and NSIDC pick up some satellite quirks. What do i know...

pauldry600

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1825 on: June 07, 2017, 03:28:36 PM »
Ye are kind of both right

it IS gone but it IS there too as in the ice is not in a great state around the pole so prob a few ponds.

Later in the season there may be more significant holes at the pole but the ice tends to compact more than form random holes unless near land masses within the Arctic.

(heres me pretending I know what im talking about  :))

magnamentis

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1826 on: June 07, 2017, 04:09:43 PM »
Any chance we see an eye of open water form at the poll in a week or so?

None. I'm pretty confident this is noise - you don't see anything on WorldView or any other source. Usually this is melt ponding (not open water)... But it's too cold for that there.

Just had a thought - melt ponding is reliant on the ice being solid and thick enough for a pond to form on top of it, right? If it's all fractured like it is in it's current state then there is less opportunity for a pond to form, as still water would filter through the cracks in the ice?

Would that be boosting previous years readings in terms of area melt?

one page pack another take on the same, i agree with your suspicion as you can see while not many chimed in on the thought, they will do once it will be obvious ;)

magnamentis

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1827 on: June 07, 2017, 04:26:37 PM »
The "What the Buoys are Telling" thread has a good photo record of the melt around O-Buoy 14 last year. The ice was pretty broken up by the time melt ponds starting appearing near the buoy. Here are a couple of photos -- satellite from 8/11, and buoy webcam from 8/15.

i don't get the point, what are you referring to (perhaps i missed it, then sorry) but i can't see the connection between mid-august melting in another region and the current melting and/or buoy location, depending on what you mean. asking because i'm interested to know which point i've been missing perhaps ;)

woodstea

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1828 on: June 07, 2017, 04:49:21 PM »
i don't get the point, what are you referring to (perhaps i missed it, then sorry) but i can't see the connection between mid-august melting in another region and the current melting and/or buoy location, depending on what you mean. asking because i'm interested to know which point i've been missing perhaps ;)

I think I was misreading the discussion above about melt ponds -- post removed.

F.Tnioli

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1829 on: June 07, 2017, 04:51:29 PM »
I read it he meant that near the Pole, way less than 100% ice concentration is much more likely to happen - initially, - not because of melt ponding, but mainly because of "de-compaction" - open water leads opening 1st, significant melt-ponding 2nd.

If that was the point, then i have just one thing to say: past experiences of the sort are much subject to uncertainty this season, because of much unique situation, promptly mentioned by Neven's recent post as "couldn't imagine worse conditions for this time of the year". I just can't even guess if the above point would hold true or not "this time". One thing for certain, though, is that weather / winds will play crucial role in this sense. And we don't know what winds we'll see some month+ from now on, i recon. So, probably just gotta sit and watch - which ultimately is the conclusion of said Neven's post, as well; that, i sure agree with. We gotta.

Andreas T

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1830 on: June 07, 2017, 05:01:58 PM »
There are pictures of meltponded ice available if anybody is interested in finding out more. I can't remember where this is from, but for the question whether size of floes determines whether meltponds form and whether they drain away, place and time is not really relevant. This is taken from a plane i.e. much higher resolution than the MODIS images discussed here when people talk about ice being broken up.
What this photo can't tell is whether the pond free areas are along cracks or along ridges where older deformations occurred. I don't have enough time to join the discussion at the moment but clearly it would benefit from some information.
IMB2017B is not far from the north pole and looking at its temperature data it is pretty much impossible that there are meltponds at its location now.

F.Tnioli

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1831 on: June 07, 2017, 05:18:59 PM »
... if anybody is interested in finding out more. ...
... then such a person is recommended to heed Neven's note about it, 1st:

Discuss melt ponds in general somewhere else, please.
...

P.S. Sadly i don't have any good idea about where it's best to discuss ponds, perhaps someone else is kind enough to make a suggestion.

gregcharles

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1832 on: June 07, 2017, 07:11:26 PM »
There are pictures of meltponded ice available if anybody is interested in finding out more. I can't remember where this is from ...

Google image search finds it at:
https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/melt-ponds-shine-in-nasa-laser-altimeter-images/

... with the caption, "On a July 17 [2014] flight to the North Pole and back, the ER-2 aircraft carrying the MABEL instrument flew over fractured sea ice, dotted with melt ponds and marked by ridges formed by the dynamic ice."

Lord M Vader

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1833 on: June 07, 2017, 09:46:48 PM »
Interestingly, Neven might be able to see the light in the tunnel soon! Latest ECMWF 12z op run hints a pattern shift to more cyclonic weather.  A fluke in the model run or a real pattern shift?

Neven

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1834 on: June 07, 2017, 10:30:18 PM »
Well, this year has the current weather and record warm winter + low volume going for it, but it's clear that it hasn't had a start like last year, as can be seen on this SSTa and Snow Cover comparison:



On the other hand, 2016 started to stall big time around this time, and 2017 is further along the way in the Chukchi and on the Siberian side of the Arctic (see Uni Bremen comparison page for June 7th) and Nares Strait is already open . It's all up in the air.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 10:37:12 PM by Neven »
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Cid_Yama

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1835 on: June 07, 2017, 10:53:48 PM »
I've noticed the last few years, when the ice breaks up, we get ripples moving back and forth across the Arctic Ocean. Sort of like it's sloshing back and forth, with alternating peaks and troughs of compaction and spreading.

Suspect it's caused by the Arctic Ocean being off center from the axis of rotation.

Just an observation, and musing about the cause.       
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 11:00:00 PM by Cid_Yama »
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VeliAlbertKallio

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1836 on: June 08, 2017, 03:47:58 AM »
Neven, 6.6.2017 snow diagram is erroneous in these areas which in reality have no snow cover:

1) around Finland
2) around the Bering Strait (Russian and Alaskan coasts of the Arctic Ocean)
3) around the Taimyr Peninsula (east side)

As the photos have a clear view, one must wonder if they have accidentally read in white clouds.
(Alternatively, this is just someone's scam to make the situation not to appear bad as it really is.)

Well, this year has the current weather and record warm winter + low volume going for it, but it's clear that it hasn't had a start like last year, as can be seen on this SSTa and Snow Cover comparison:



On the other hand, 2016 started to stall big time around this time, and 2017 is further along the way in the Chukchi and on the Siberian side of the Arctic (see Uni Bremen comparison page for June 7th) and Nares Strait is already open . It's all up in the air.

TerryM

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1837 on: June 08, 2017, 04:04:42 AM »
Veli


That is enormous !!


What is going on and why is disinformation being published?
Terry

ktonine

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1838 on: June 08, 2017, 04:50:29 AM »
What is going on and why is disinformation being published?

Different dates: The Snow and Ice Charts were from June 3, 2016 & 2017.  Veli posted images from June 6.  A lot can happen in snow cover over just a few days at this time of year.  Here's the latest:


Tigertown

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1839 on: June 08, 2017, 04:51:25 AM »
Veli


That is enormous !!


What is going on and why is disinformation being published?
Terry
Somebody somewhere trusted a computer a little too much, most likely.

Geoff

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1840 on: June 08, 2017, 05:09:08 AM »
Quote
Anyhow, someone asked about whether it's possible we'll get an "eye" at the pole at some point. Someone else replied about some glitches in some other map, "it'll be gone next day". Whelp, seems that isn't the case. Something's really going on, eh?

Actually, no, it's gone (my rule of thumb with Uni Bremen SIC maps is that pink/yellow/green colours need to persist at least for three days to be a sign of something like open water or melt ponding):
For images there the holes are temporarily weather induced, it might be good to do a 5 day average, something like this:


I'm not sure about the best averaging algorithm, maybe the median for each pixel may be the best (to ignore minor fluctuations, but I'm not much of an image manipulator - this is simple averaging

edit: Median isn't too different:
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 05:22:54 AM by Geoff »

cesium62

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1841 on: June 08, 2017, 05:56:39 AM »

For images there the holes are temporarily weather induced, it might be good to do a 5 day average...

I'm not sure about the best averaging algorithm, maybe the median for each pixel may be the best (to ignore minor fluctuations, but I'm not much of an image manipulator - this is simple averaging

edit: Median isn't too different:

I'm thinking use the max.  I thought the idea was that the holes were artifacts.

jdallen

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1842 on: June 08, 2017, 06:20:31 AM »
What is going on and why is disinformation being published?

Different dates: The Snow and Ice Charts were from June 3, 2016 & 2017.  Veli posted images from June 6.  A lot can happen in snow cover over just a few days at this time of year.  Here's the latest:


Regardless, It doesn't seem 2017's lead is as significant as it was.
This space for Rent.

Tigertown

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1843 on: June 08, 2017, 06:24:20 AM »
 ??? The date stamp looked more like a 5 vs a 3 on those to me as in June 5th.  ???

Often Distant

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1844 on: June 08, 2017, 06:51:31 AM »
Northern Greenland sea ice further crumbling in.

meddoc

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1845 on: June 08, 2017, 07:46:07 AM »
Neven, 6.6.2017 snow diagram is erroneous in these areas which in reality have no snow cover:

1) around Finland
2) around the Bering Strait (Russian and Alaskan coasts of the Arctic Ocean)
3) around the Taimyr Peninsula (east side)

As the photos have a clear view, one must wonder if they have accidentally read in white clouds.
(Alternatively, this is just someone's scam to make the situation not to appear bad as it really is.)



How many Times have I stated, that the Real State of the Arctic is represented most accurately in Geopolitics, Refugee- Inflows, Global Weather Extremes & naturally in Human Psychology.
Just take a Look around You...

Satellite Data can be easily manipulated.

oren

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1846 on: June 08, 2017, 07:55:33 AM »
Satellite Data can be easily manipulated.
Not when you look at it yourself. NASA is not photoshopping worldview.

S.Pansa

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1847 on: June 08, 2017, 08:21:10 AM »


Satellite Data can be easily manipulated.

Manipulation, for sure. ... On the other hand, perhaps things are much simpler. A strange idea: clouds.
One example: ESS & Chukchi coasts for June 6th & 7th NOAA snow cover vs. Worldview


So to answer your question: "How many Times have I stated,  ...."
Way too often in this thread - for my taste at least. I am sure there is somewhere a conspiracy thread for your splendid insights

S.Pansa

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1848 on: June 08, 2017, 08:23:43 AM »
And here is the situation for today. If clouds play a role in this, we could expect another big drop in snow cover on the NOAA pic for tomorrow.

JayW

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Re: The 2017 melting season
« Reply #1849 on: June 08, 2017, 11:19:30 AM »
Another try at this.

81 hour loop of the Southern Chukchi.  Thought that discoloration moving north from the Bering Strait was interesting, algae?

Imagery courtesy of the University of Alaska at Fairbanks.
http://feeder.gina.alaska.edu
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