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TerryM

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2019, 08:06:12 AM »
No more sausages??. They will die!!  How about a soil welfare tax? All that planting has an equal negative result? And ocean welfare tax? Fish will suffer greatly when they stop eating meat?  I prefer meat in a lab as a solution!
You're certainly more than welcome to my allotted share.


How do you feel about tripe soup? ???
Terry

nanning

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2019, 09:55:47 AM »
Meat tax

Guess what kind of people will no longer be able to afford to eat meat?
No, not the high carbon footprint ones!

A solution:
Why not convert all intensive agri-business to completely organic (agroforestry) farming?
Because those people lobby, scream and bite and are friends with 'important' people.

The 'other people' are silently enduring ever more abusive policies. Neoliberalism yeah: make all poor and good people deprived and suffering. Out of sight, out of mind.
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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2019, 06:03:57 PM »

Villabolo

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2019, 06:21:58 PM »
No more sausages??. They will die!!  How about a soil welfare tax? All that planting has an equal negative result? And ocean welfare tax? Fish will suffer greatly when they stop eating meat?  I prefer meat in a lab as a solution!
You're certainly more than welcome to my allotted share.


How do you feel about tripe soup? ???
Terry

Mexicans have a tripe dish called Menudo, made of beef tripe and hominy, which is a favorite of mine. It's part of my emergency canned food stockpile. :P
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 01:51:17 PM by Villabolo »

TerryM

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2019, 12:48:26 AM »
No more sausages??. They will die!!  How about a soil welfare tax? All that planting has an equal negative result? And ocean welfare tax? Fish will suffer greatly when they stop eating meat?  I prefer meat in a lab as a solution!
You're certainly more than welcome to my allotted share.


How do you feel about tripe soup? ???
Terry

Mexicans have a tripe dish called Menudo, made of beef tripe and hominy, which is a favorite of mine. It's part of my emergency stockpile. :P


Actually Menudo has been a favorite of mine since my So. California days. The Mexican dishes offered in So. Ontario are a strange mixture of Caribbean Mexican, So. Mexico Mexican and an almost inedible, uninspired & unspiced  Canadian Mexican Tradition. Who puts black beans, white rice and cheddar cheese in Mexican food?


Menudo for some reason hasn't made it across the Canadian border, or at least into the little part of So. Ontario where I dine.  It's one of my favorites, though I've never attempted to cook it. The spicing of Menudo is traditionally left to the consumer and can vary greatly. - often with the severity of ones hangover being a factor. ::)


I was using "tripe" in a throw away line to trying to indicate a meat dish that most would see as revolting.


Probably not my greatest culinary/literary allusion. ???
Terry

vox_mundi

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2019, 01:08:03 AM »
It also sees mileage in Vietnamese pho.
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TerryM

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2019, 02:37:01 AM »
It also sees mileage in Vietnamese pho.


I had no idea!


We've a very good Vietnamese rest. in town - next time I'm out and about I'll see what they offer.


Thanks
Terry

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2019, 05:18:53 AM »
Meat tax
A carbon tax!
And make the tax revenues flow to low carbon footprint people. I might get rich! .. Oh nooo   ::) ;D
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

Villabolo

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2019, 02:26:32 PM »
No more sausages??. They will die!!  How about a soil welfare tax? All that planting has an equal negative result? And ocean welfare tax? Fish will suffer greatly when they stop eating meat?  I prefer meat in a lab as a solution!
You're certainly more than welcome to my allotted share.


How do you feel about tripe soup? ???
Terry

Mexicans have a tripe dish called Menudo, made of beef tripe and hominy, which is a favorite of mine. It's part of my emergency stockpile. :P


Actually Menudo has been a favorite of mine since my So. California days. The Mexican dishes offered in So. Ontario are a strange mixture of Caribbean Mexican, So. Mexico Mexican and an almost inedible, uninspired & unspiced  Canadian Mexican Tradition. Who puts black beans, white rice and cheddar cheese in Mexican food?


Menudo for some reason hasn't made it across the Canadian border, or at least into the little part of So. Ontario where I dine.  It's one of my favorites, though I've never attempted to cook it. The spicing of Menudo is traditionally left to the consumer and can vary greatly. - often with the severity of ones hangover being a factor. ::)


I was using "tripe" in a throw away line to trying to indicate a meat dish that most would see as revolting.


Probably not my greatest culinary/literary allusion. ???
Terry

Then there's chicken gizzard soup. You can throw in some chicken neck-bones to add more flavor. I've also eaten cow brains and tongue. They're Cuban delicacies.

I didn't like the brains. Not so much the flavor or appearance but the texture. Beef tongue isn't too bad.

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2019, 05:33:17 PM »
Beef tongue is great. I loved it. We always had it for christmas in my childhood, the whole thing boiled and cut in slices. With mushroom sauce. I don't eat much meat anymore. Also stopped drinking milk. And coffee.
Sorry for the off-topic.

edit: Of course I only eat organic meat.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 06:04:29 PM by nanning »
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

TerryM

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2019, 11:05:42 AM »
Beef tongue is great. I loved it. We always had it for christmas in my childhood, the whole thing boiled and cut in slices. With mushroom sauce. I don't eat much meat anymore. Also stopped drinking milk. And coffee.
Sorry for the off-topic.

edit: Of course I only eat organic meat.
Calves brains scrambled with eggs, Cold tongue sandwiches, Steak and kidney pie, Beef-Heart, Menudo  - toss out the rest of the beast!


Fried chicken gizzard and with pickled pigs feet washed down with live oysters and Ale.


After Sashimi I've never understood why the west cooks anything from the ocean. :)


Where has this thread gone?
Terry

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #61 on: August 17, 2019, 07:47:50 PM »
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/red-meat-local-farmer-ottawa-1.5244343
Farmers say people can still take a bite out of climate change while eating red meat, pushing back against global headlines calling for major changes to the world's farming and eating habits.
It may be a convenient argument for a beef farmer to make, but there is merit to it, according to Ryan Katz-Rosene, a University of Ottawa professor who is the president of the Environmental Studies Association of Canada. He also lives on a farm that produces sheep for meat and wool.


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etienne

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #62 on: August 25, 2019, 07:34:17 AM »
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/red-meat-local-farmer-ottawa-1.5244343
Farmers say people can still take a bite out of climate change while eating red meat, pushing back against global headlines calling for major changes to the world's farming and eating habits.
It may be a convenient argument for a beef farmer to make, but there is merit to it, according to Ryan Katz-Rosene, a University of Ottawa professor who is the president of the Environmental Studies Association of Canada. He also lives on a farm that produces sheep for meat and wool.
This is certainty true, but it requires people to eat less meat. There is no way to produce all the eaten meat with grass feeded animals.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2019, 09:59:15 PM »
Amazon wildfires illustrate dangers of deforestation for meat production
https://blog.humanesociety.org/2019/08/amazon-wildfires-illustrate-dangers-of-deforestation-for-meat-production.html?credit=blog_post_082919_idhome-page
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As the world looks on in horror at images of Brazil’s Amazon rainforest engulfed in flames, many are asking why this important ecosystem is on fire, and what we can do to put out the flames once and for all. The situation is complex but there is one simple action we can take: we need to dramatically cut our meat consumption.

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2019, 05:50:55 PM »
BOLSONARO'S BEEF WITH THE AMAZON FORCES US MEAT INDUSTRY TO CHANGE
https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/bolsonaros-beef-with-the-amazon-forces-us-meat-industry-to-change/96641
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For years now, the industry has tried to resist calls from environmental activists to cut down on beef production and imports, despite the carbon emissions and deforestation that are known byproducts of rearing animals on a large scale for meat. But America’s meat giants are now facing unparalleled pressure, in the wake of the Amazon fires, to adopt more environmentally friendly policies. And early signs suggest that the global outcry over the fires in Brazil is forcing them to change.
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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2019, 08:26:41 PM »
Meat is murder. But you know that already
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/books/review/we-are-the-weather-jonathan-safran-foer.html
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In his new essay collection, “We Are the Weather," Jonathan Safran Foer turns his attention to the climate crisis. Mark Bittman weighs in.
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Stephen

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2019, 12:41:59 AM »
Meat is murder. But you know that already
.....

I knew that it was your opinion. A very judgemental and condescending opinion at that.  I did not know, and I do not agree, that it is an established fact.  When one human being deliberately kills another then that is murder.  Humans killing other species for food is just that - killing.

If I keep chickens in my backyard and I kill one to eat it's meat, then that is just one animal killing another in order to survive.

So what exactly are you trying to achieve by opening your post with a declaration like "meat is murder"?  The effect of that opening statement is to immediately turn off anybody who eats meat.  From there on you will only be preaching to the converted.  If you want to change people then it's not a good tactic to insult them.

Is that all we are doing here? Preaching to the converted?  I'd like to think that we are trying to effect change. 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 01:25:39 AM by Stephen »
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vox_mundi

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #67 on: September 19, 2019, 02:09:24 AM »
US Moves to Scrap Speed Limits on Pig Slaughter Lines
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/18/us-moves-to-scrap-speed-limits-on-pig-slaughter-lines

The US government has given the go-ahead to new rules to eliminate production line speed limits at pig slaughterhouses, deeming restrictions “unnecessary” despite fears that lifting them will worsen the already high number of serious injuries suffered by US meat plant workers.

TRump's United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) said maximum line speeds were an “unnecessary regulatory obstacle to industry innovation” and that its new rules – the first reform to pork inspections for 50 years – were overdue.

The USDA rules will also allow state inspection officials at pig slaughterhouses to be replaced with company employees.

According to USDA data, there would be a reduction of 40% in the number of USDA inspectors assigned to slaughter lines in plants that switch to the new rules.

... The USDA has estimated that the new rules could potentially save it more than $6 million (£4.8m) a year. (... less than 0.1% of annual total pork shipments valued at $6.49 billion)

... “And by giving yet another break to corporate interests, the USDA is also harming small farmers who are producing safer and healthier pork,”
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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2019, 04:39:34 AM »
Meat is murder. But you know that already
.....

I knew that it was your opinion. A very judgemental and condescending opinion at that.  I did not know, and I do not agree, that it is an established fact.  When one human being deliberately kills another then that is murder.  Humans killing other species for food is just that - killing.

If I keep chickens in my backyard and I kill one to eat it's meat, then that is just one animal killing another in order to survive.

So what exactly are you trying to achieve by opening your post with a declaration like "meat is murder"?  The effect of that opening statement is to immediately turn off anybody who eats meat.  From there on you will only be preaching to the converted.  If you want to change people then it's not a good tactic to insult them.

Is that all we are doing here? Preaching to the converted?  I'd like to think that we are trying to effect change.

No, it is not my opinion. It is the headline of the New York Times article I am linking to. In fact, I do not believe animals have souls and that meat eating is as moral as plant eating.
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nanning

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2019, 06:41:43 AM »
Dear Tom, please give information in your texts with the links you've found. I hazard to guess most forumposters 'hate' click-bait titles and click-bait texts here. Which is what your "meat is murder" text is. I understand Stephen's response.

To wit, I don't click on all the links you kindly provide. First I'd like to read some synoptic/informative text accompanying the link. A little bit of effort.
A bit of personal view and arguments in the context of the linked article is nice and welcome but not necessary.

To others: Please correct me if it is just my personal preference.

Apologies for this off-topic post. Responses are best posted in the Forum Decorum thread I think.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

blumenkraft

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2019, 07:12:23 AM »
Humans killing other species for food is just that - killing.

Stephen, you do know that not all humans are equal on this planet? You know killing a slave wasn't considered murder for some time in recent history?

The borders of what is murder and what's not are obviously arbitrary changing in time and space.

Thinking killing animals is murderer is a valid and morally superior worldview, don't tell people not to have it.

oren

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2019, 08:06:54 AM »
Dear Tom, please give information in your texts with the links you've found.
But he did. And all of Tom's article posts follow the same structure, headline, link, short quote.

be cause

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2019, 09:38:52 AM »
meat IS murder ! b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

nanning

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #73 on: September 19, 2019, 12:29:06 PM »
Dear Tom, please give information in your texts with the links you've found.
But he did. And all of Tom's article posts follow the same structure, headline, link, short quote.

OK perhaps I'm alone then with my loathing of click-bait texts and -titles. I don't see e.g. vox_mundi do that.

So, I will skip reading many of his posts because many times I have to delve into it to get the info and see if the info is relevant and on topic. I am lazy in that sense. Just a bit more effort would be enough.
By the way Tom, I don't mean to put you down or anything like that.

This morning I had 4 pages with new thread-posts and most were from Tom.

If I post an article I'll try to give the asif reader enough information to decide to click. With vox_mundi's posts most of the time I don't click on the article because I know enough. I make a little effort but not as much as e.g. vox_mundi or ASLR. I have great respect for those efforts!
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2019, 01:47:42 PM »
Remember, I have used up my New York Times free articles for the month. I have to take the quote from the Daily Climate listing now. Of course, if you are willing to pay for my subscription...
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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #75 on: September 19, 2019, 04:43:04 PM »
::)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
"It is preoccupation with what other people from your groups think of you, that prevents you from living freely and nobly" - Nanning
Why do you keep accumulating stuff?

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #76 on: September 19, 2019, 05:41:57 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Mazanec
... I have used up my New York Times free articles for the month. I have to take the quote from the Daily Climate listing now.
Note to Tom:

You don't 'HAVE' to do anything.

This is a voluntary forum for scientist and citizen-scientist to share data, information, knowledge, and sometimes wisdom. It's not some OCD competition.

The object is to have more signal than noise.

Flooding the forum with 40 posts (yesterday) or 30 (the day before) does not improve the S/N ratio.

Skim less; read more.

Perhaps, distill those 40 posts to 5 that haven't already been discussed or posted by someone else.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 05:52:39 PM by vox_mundi »
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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #77 on: September 19, 2019, 06:37:06 PM »
 ^^^ seconded ..  b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 + 1 =  ' if only we could have seen it coming ' ...

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #78 on: September 19, 2019, 07:19:26 PM »
Remember, I have used up my New York Times free articles for the month. I have to take the quote from the Daily Climate listing now. Of course, if you are willing to pay for my subscription...

If one can't access the source material from an aggregating site, one probably shouldn't post about the summary click-bait.

However, you could try installing a javascript toggle switch extension to your browser.  Many source newspapers' limit to free articles can be circumvented by switching javascript off.

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #79 on: September 19, 2019, 11:01:49 PM »
And you do not have to read my links. Other people have expressed appreciation for these links.
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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2019, 01:46:23 AM »
World’s biggest meatpackers buying cattle from deforesters in Amazon
https://news.mongabay.com/2019/09/worlds-biggest-meatpackers-buying-cattle-from-deforesters-in-amazon/
Quote
JBS, Marfrig and Frigol, among the world’s biggest meat producers, have been buying cattle from ranches associated with illegal deforestation and slave labor, an investigation by Repórter Brasil has found.
The ranches in question are located in southern Pará state, the epicenter of the fires currently ravaging the Amazon, providing further evidence of the link between deforestation for cattle pasture and forest fires.
The three companies say the information that would have flagged the ranches as problematic were not publicly available at the time they made their purchase, and point to their commitments to not source from ranches linked to environmental crimes.
But a lack of animal traceability allows ranchers to use legalized farms to conceal sales of cattle raised in illegal areas through false declarations of origin, in a practice known as “cattle washing.”
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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #81 on: September 24, 2019, 09:50:11 PM »
Bloomberg editorial pushes for 'Meatless Mondays' to battle climate change
https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/462582-bloomberg-opinion-pushes-for-meatless-mondays-to-end-climate-change
Quote
Bloomberg's editorial board is urging people to eat less meat to help curb climate change, noting both the high levels of greenhouse gas emissions from factory farms and the sheer amount of space cattle ranches use up.

In the editorial published Sunday, Bloomberg Opinion pushed Americans to consider adopting “Meatless Mondays” if a switch to a full-time vegetarian or vegan diet didn’t seem like a plausible lifestyle change.
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VideoGameVet

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2019, 07:46:32 AM »
I transitioned to a vegan diet, starting in 1986 after a health scare at 29 years of age, and going 100% over a decade ago. 

The results are an activity level in my early 60's that exceeds what I could do at 25.

Bike ride I did a week ago:



Note: I weigh in at 225lbs (6' 2"+) so I am not your typical skinny vegan.
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morganism

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #83 on: September 07, 2020, 07:25:49 PM »
Beef Fat Prevents Alcoholic Liver Disease in the Rat

The amount and type of dietary fat is thought to be important in the pathogenesis of alcoholic liver disease (ALD). We investigated the role of different dietary fats in our rat model for ALD. Liver pathology was evaluated in rats fed ethanol and lard or tallow or corn oil over a period of 2 to 6 months. All experimental animals were pair‐fed the same diet as controls except that glucose was isocalorically replaced by ethanol. Rats fed tallow and ethanol developed none of the features of ALD, those fed lard and ethanol developed minimal to moderate disease, rats fed corn oil and ethanol developed the most severe pathology. The degree of histopathological abnormality correlated with the linoleic acid content of fat in the diet (tallow 0.7%, lard 2.5%, corn oil 56.6%). We postulate that linoleic acid facilitates development of ALD and provides an explanation for our previous epidemiological observations.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1530-0277.1989.tb00276.x

nanning

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2020, 06:04:19 AM »
Interesting research morganism.
Some further information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleic_acid
Quote
Linoleic acid is a polyunsaturated omega-6 fatty acid. It is a colorless or white oil that is virtually insoluble in water but very soluble in acetone, benzene, diethyl ether and ethanol.[2] It typically occurs in nature as a triglyceride (ester of glycerin) rather than as a free fatty acid.[4] It is one of two essential fatty acids for humans, who must obtain it through their diet.[5]

The word "linoleic" derives from the Latin linum "flax" + oleum "oil", reflecting the fact that it was first isolated from linseed oil.
(bolding by me)

This wikipedia link has a list of fatty foodstuffs and their linoleic acid content.
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kassy

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #85 on: December 23, 2020, 09:44:45 PM »
Organic meat production just as bad for climate, study finds

Analysis also found the lowest impact meat was still far more damaging than the worst plant foods

The cost of the climate damage caused by organic meat production is just as high as that of conventionally farmed meat, according to research.

The analysis estimated the greenhouse gas emissions resulting from different foods and calculated how much their prices would need to rise to cover the harm they cause by fuelling the climate emergency.

For beef and lamb, organic and conventional production resulted in similar climate costs, the study found. Organic chicken was slightly worse for the climate and organic pork slightly better than their conventional counterparts.

Conventional livestock’s emissions come from their manure and, for cows and sheep, by burping methane. The grain they are fed can also result in high emissions, especially if it is associated with deforestation, such as in South America.

Organic livestock are not fed imported fodder and are often grass-fed, but this means they produce less meat and grow more slowly, therefore spending longer emitting greenhouse gases before slaughter, the researchers said. Plants grown organically have half the climate costs of conventional produce as they do not rely on chemical fertilisers, but all plants have far lower emissions than animal products.

The researchers said the analysis showed an urgent need for policies, such as meat taxes, to ensure food prices reflect their true costs. This would be fairer, they said, as consumers eating climate-damaging diets would pay for their pollution, rather than the costs of increased storms, floods and droughts being spread across everyone in society as they are today. They said the revenues raised should be used to help poorer families manage price rises and to incentivise farmers to be more environmentally friendly.

...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/23/organic-meat-production-just-as-bad-for-climate-study-finds
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gerontocrat

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #86 on: December 23, 2020, 10:39:54 PM »

Beef Fat Prevents Alcoholic Liver Disease in the Rat

Now I know why none of the 4 legged drunken sots I know have got cirrhosis of the liver.
One or two of the two-legged drunken sots I knew did get cirrhosis of the liver and they liked meat.
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Neven

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #87 on: December 23, 2020, 10:50:25 PM »
The researchers said the analysis showed an urgent need for policies, such as meat taxes, to ensure food prices reflect their true costs. This would be fairer, they said, as consumers eating climate-damaging diets would pay for their pollution, rather than the costs of increased storms, floods and droughts being spread across everyone in society as they are today.

Meaning only the rich can afford to eat asmuch meat as they want, a return to the situation that is one of the main reasons people want to eat meat: social status. In the past, eating meat was almost exlcusively reserved for the wealthy. So, by eating more and more meat, you were gradually becoming just as awesome as the rich.

Perhaps rationing would be better. This would immediately lead to pitchforks, but governments are on a roll now thanks to corona-related lockdowns. Maybe they can ram this down people's throats as well.

Quote
They said the revenues raised should be used to help poorer families manage price rises and to incentivise farmers to be more environmentally friendly.

The whole point of the article is that being more environmentally friendly (organic) is not better, or worse even, for the climate!

I don't know if the study looked at grass-fed meat from animals that could graze on pastures, as this actually helps sequester CO2 in the soil.

I believe 30 kg per person per year is within carbon footprint limits (assuming a lot of other stuff is cut), which amounts to a little less than 100 gr per day. Forget about it if you have a dog. Ours  (medium-sized) eats more meat than the three of us combined.
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kassy

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #88 on: December 24, 2020, 12:27:43 AM »
When push comes to shove those richer then you will outbid you or worse.

What if we could actually make a carbon tax which was totally fair and just taxed whatever you used up of your fair of resources? It would add costs to the car, it would add costs to your clothes, it would add costs to most of the food which includes meat.

Maybe bringing out the pitchforks would not be a bad idea if you figure in that we waste a terrible amount of food. We have a distribution problem more then a feeding problem and most people don´t care because they can throw the food away because that is what we do in the EU/US.

Organic is not better per se. It is better for the animals but if you look at food eating beans yourself is much more efficient for climate.

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Bruce Steele

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #89 on: December 24, 2020, 05:41:03 PM »
Kassy, I tried to read the paper linked in the guardian article to see why it’s results are different than other studies I have read about farming and carbon inputs. The article links other studies but doesn’t reveal how it reaches it’s conclusions. Near the end it includes costs of healthcare due to eating meat but IMO science involving farming issues should be more frank in methods used to compare different farming techniques.  It would also help if a simple farmer could read and understand claims made.
Otherwise someone like me tends to think the author performed a writing exercise to justify their predetermined policy advice.

A carbon tax redistributed from the highest users to the lowest users would seem easier than a meat tax. But I am a pig farmer.” Tax the rich, feed the poor, till there are no rich no more. “

« Last Edit: December 24, 2020, 05:59:22 PM by Bruce Steele »

kassy

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #90 on: December 24, 2020, 07:27:22 PM »
Quote
A carbon tax redistributed from the highest users to the lowest users would seem easier than a meat tax.

Agree and it would have a much broader range and it is less controversial.

I suggest just ignoring the linked research because i did so anyway.

Going organic will improve a lot of things locally but it will not change the fact that the same amount of beans feed more people.

Now the problem is not at the farms. Yes they should go organic or be managed in a way that is sustainable so the grandkids can farm too because that is the more important aspect of the movement. The overall contribution to climate change is smallish but the much more important aspect is farming in a way that is sustainable.

And if we look at other things. Rice paddies make methane but we cannot stop farming rice. All eating a little less meat (or some eating way too much eating a lot less) would go a long way.

I hope this distinction is clear.

Quote
Meaning only the rich can afford to eat as much meat as they want
This is exactly the state today. The kids that hardly get fed at home so they need school meals don´t get to eat good meat anyway. A lot of the poorer ones that do get fed get crap food because that is cheap, easy and available. Etc.

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oren

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2020, 12:17:32 PM »
Carbon (and other pollution) tax and dividend to all, best solution. Why are there no "good populists" touting thus? It could easily have popular support.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #92 on: December 28, 2020, 01:02:15 PM »
Carbon (and other pollution) tax and dividend to all, best solution. Why are there no "good populists" touting thus? It could easily have popular support.

Totally agree.  And it should (eventually) include the embedded emissions in food, especially beef.  But for public acceptance, only the direct emitters from fossil fuels perhaps should be included, perhaps.

I think people generally mistrust that the taxes/fees collected will actually be rebated to the people.  I think it's worth the investment to distribute the first year's expected revenue to be rebated *before* the fees are collected.  When people see the checks, that will likely convince most that it's legitimate.

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Re: Meat Consumption and Global Warming
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2020, 11:34:43 PM »
Ah, Steve, you're such an optimist about people...
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