What is Off Topic and What is Not?

[Tigertown]

Seems timely. The question is coming up and so as not to tie up the melting season thread any further answering this question, which in and of itself, would also be off topic, here we are. If there is a better location for this thread, I leave it to the attending moderator to adjust accordingly.

Let's do this people! First question.

[Tigertown]

cesium62

We can't talk about the effects of the melting season on Puffins in the melting season thread?

My opinion, if you can tie this matter directly to the melt season, maybe. On the other hand, just talking about the overall effects of climate change on wildlife, then wrong thread. We are mostly talking about sea ice and expectations and fulfillment thereof in regard to this melt season. Also, anything that affects melting or the rate thereof. Puffins are victims of the warming, but are they victims of melting ice and do they change the rate or create feedback?

Also, I would consider if this was a primary comment or maybe just an afterthought added to a  comment more directly tied into the subject. I don't think our moderators will be unreasonable; they just don't won't the thread completely derailed.

Just my take on it.

[Pmt111500]

I live a bit south of the southern border of the subarctic climate  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subarctic_climate) and have occasionally also had trouble with selecting a proper thread. Mainly this would happen with ecological articles from the popular press, it's easy to open a thread in Science-section if there's a Nature-article to present along with the rest of the text.

There's the 'AGW in general'-guideline on the main page on the forum, thus some of this stuff has gone to 'Consequences' and some to 'The rest' (some personal observations). Some still in the 'Cryosphere' if the thing in question concerns only winter... I'd could suggest opening a 'Changing seasons'-section under 'AGW in general', this could be a place for ecological/agricultural articles round the world. There's still pretty wild nature even in Europe. At least some of my posts would have been in this instead of elsewhere.

I don't care much of the politics, but the politics (rather, 'pollutics') currently (also here in Finland) is such that... (sigh...). Expecting myself to still do some rants of that too, though most of that should likely indeed go to 'foúl language'-thread...

The fact is the Arctic change is still a symptom of the general AGW. That this may change sometime in the future (loss of summer sea ice, permafrost, meltdown of Greenland, changing weather systems) at least for a while, and thus humanity would become a subservient
(could be a wrong word) influence in the equation of planetary radiation balance, doesn't change the fact the changes we started are global in nature. On this forum, this would mean, to me, a large expansion of the AGW in general section but how to do this best is beyond me. For a temporary solution the bolded proposition above could do, at least I could have thrown in there some phenological (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenology) maps and seasonal diagrams of various critters and animals, maybe also of smaller vascular plants and trees. (oo, there's an arctic pine (or was it some other species) in Lapland that has increased it's yearly growth 300% in the 2000s, clearly this means CO2 is good for plants)

[Anne]

I'd put the puffins in the Consequences ->Effects on Arctic wildlife thread. The post about puffins is not about the state of the ice, which is what the melting season thread is for; nor about the feedback effects of the state of the ice - it's about the effects of the state of the ice on other things.

It's vitally important imo for the integrity of the forum to keep on topic.

[Tigertown]

I am learning something, because I didn't even know a thread like that existed. I probably have ran across a few things that would have fit there. Now, I know. Thanks, Anne.

[Tor Bejnar]

To find a thread, I start in the Arctic Sea Ice : Forum page (not within one of the threads) and enter a topic in the "Search" field in the upper right corner of the page.  You will see threads that include whatever you typed.  Often, if the thread title has your term in it, that may be a good choice.

[Tigertown]

From the melting season:

Neven

So again, my 'rules' (they are actually universal laws):

1) Every comment in the melting/freezing season threads should pertain to that subject. These are the most popular threads for readers who don't comment, so don't bother them with off-topic stuff.
2) If you have to be off-topic, be short.
3) If you're the third guy who wants to say something about the off-topic subject, say: Okay, guys, this is getting off-topic, let's go to this or that thread - or open a new one - so our discussions don't get lost and we don't bother others. It's a big forum.
4) In other threads you can go off-topic more.
5) Don't start discussions about these rules in the thread itself. PM Neven or go to the The Forum category.

It's a big forum. Don't try to stuff all your ideas, theories and opinions in this one thread. Many people come here to read about the latest near real-time news on the 2017 melting season, not about the implications, the consequences and the politics of it all. Show some respect.

[Tigertown]

I think it might be good to archive this discussion here for future reference.

Guys, this thread is for a discussion exclusively about the current melting season, not topics such as solar insolation. If you have any further comments on that matter, please take them elsewhere. Thanks!

probably i gonna bang my head again but i disagree as far as how is it possible to seriously discuss melting season without from time to time talking about insolation since it's a main factor around solstice ?

<snip; it's fine to talk about insolation taking place right now, or about fog or rain, or whatever, but I'd prefer not to see endless theoretical back-and-forths about enthalpy and how much energy it takes to melt 1 kg of ice, etc, etc; N.>

[Jim Pettit]

I think it might be good to archive this discussion here for future reference.

Guys, this thread is for a discussion exclusively about the current melting season, not topics such as solar insolation. If you have any further comments on that matter, please take them elsewhere. Thanks!

probably i gonna bang my head again but i disagree as far as how is it possible to seriously discuss melting season without from time to time talking about insolation since it's a main factor around solstice ?

<snip; it's fine to talk about insolation taking place right now, or about fog or rain, or whatever, but I'd prefer not to see endless theoretical back-and-forths about enthalpy and how much energy it takes to melt 1 kg of ice, etc, etc; N.>

Precisely. Neven has been pretty clear that the most popular threads--melting season, IJIS, Wipneus AMSR, and so on--need to be kept as clutter-free as possible, as he wants to attract and keep interested those looking for the high points. There are dozens of threads here in which to discuss ice-related minutiae and esoterica. IOW: no slow driving in the fast lane. ;-)

[Tigertown]

It is discouraging sometimes, because you know that when you move to another thread, the momentum of the discussion dies. The same people that are all over the topic when it is off topic will not follow it to another thread. Sounds odd, I know, but true.

[oren]

It is discouraging sometimes, because you know that when you move to another thread, the momentum of the discussion dies. The same people that are all over the topic when it is off topic will not follow it to another thread. Sounds odd, I know, but true.

This is partially true but there have been cases of very popular threads spawned this way. From a theoretical discussion that went off-topic ad nauseum, to a new life in a thread of its own. For example, importance of waves in the arctic, negative feedback of positive snow anomalies, etc.
From what I've seen it helps to put a link from the melting season thread to the new thread. It also helps to give the thread a more general title, so that people can go back to it when looking for that subject.
(All this advice from someone who has never started a thread...)

[magnamentis]

It is discouraging sometimes, because you know that when you move to another thread, the momentum of the discussion dies. The same people that are all over the topic when it is off topic will not follow it to another thread. Sounds odd, I know, but true.

This is partially true but there have been cases of very popular threads spawned this way. From a theoretical discussion that went off-topic ad nauseum, to a new life in a thread of its own. For example, importance of waves in the arctic, negative feedback of positive snow anomalies, etc.
From what I've seen it helps to put a link from the melting season thread to the new thread. It also helps to give the thread a more general title, so that people can go back to it when looking for that subject.
(All this advice from someone who has never started a thread...)

all true, if it were easy to keep the right balance it woul be done but it is very diddicult. IMO the best solution is if mods, friendly but consequently would put individual stops when limits are crossed, best after cosulting a co-mod to stay backed.

there is useful ot and non-sense ot and the tone of inerfearing should be moderate in case of the first to keep uzers motivated.