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Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1800 on: January 18, 2019, 10:34:05 AM »
<snip, none of this inane Dr Strangelove-type propaganda, thanks; N.>

« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 10:46:01 AM by Neven »
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Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1801 on: January 19, 2019, 06:31:18 AM »
Perhaps some of you might become better acquainted and employ less prejudiced hearsay:

Quote
But if anyone has the chops to manage Mr. Trump’s brattiness, it is Ms. Pelosi ... [who] is not unfamiliar with his type, having risen to political prominence in a field full of arrogant, entitled, patronizing men.

Along the way, she has been repeatedly underestimated. In 1985, having reached the top of the California Democratic Party, she campaigned, unsuccessfully, to head the national party. As Ms. Pelosi tells it, one union organizer dismissed her as “an airhead.” Other players told her that Democrats wouldn’t risk elevating a woman to such a high-profile post on the heels of Walter Mondale’s 1984 presidential loss with Geraldine Ferraro as his running mate. Ms. Pelosi never forgot those slights.

Upon arriving in Congress in 1987, she had to carve out a space in what was then still an old white boys’ club. She succeeded through a combination of sweat, savvy and sheer will. She learned how Congress works, both as an institution and as a collection of egos. As she showed in quashing a challenge to her leadership after the midterm elections, she knows how to find people’s pressure points.

She also knows how to handle pressure. As House minority leader, she helped derail President George W. Bush’s efforts to privatize Social Security by ignoring the conventional wisdom that Democrats needed to offer an alternative plan. Resisting criticism from both the White House and her own conference, Ms. Pelosi focused on taking down Mr. Bush’s plan.

This time around, Ms. Pelosi is aiming not merely to rein in the out-of-control president but, in the process, to deflate his cherished image as a Master of the Universe. She has mocked Mr. Trump’s obsession with what she terms his “manhood” and gone all in with the grandmother-wrangling-an-unruly-child shtick. What he paints as strong leadership and standing his ground, she dismisses as a temper tantrum. Rather than outrage or disbelief, Ms. Pelosi’s most common response to Mr. Trump amounts to one long, exasperated eye roll.

…. few politicians are as well equipped to weather a political storm. Ms. Pelosi has been a polarizing figure for longer than most members have been in Congress. For years, Republicans have been using her as a boogeyman, painting pretty much every Democratic candidate nationwide as a tool of her and her radical San Francisco agenda. As a result, her public appeal is much like that of the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, slightly above a root canal. But while Pelosi-bashing has its charms — Republican voters do love hating on the speaker — as the midterms showed, it also has its limits.

For her part, Ms. Pelosi is not overly concerned with personal popularity.
….
The big question is whether she can avoid getting pulled down into the muck right along with him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/opinion/pelosi-trump-shutdown.html

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1802 on: January 19, 2019, 06:39:18 AM »
By the way, though I try to steer clear and only post third-party info that might provide much absent and needed information, the prejudice and distortion in the permitted clique above is staggering. I get it, you all believe the same thing, and others need not intrude. However ...

Greenwald is now living in a very expensive area, safe in disintegrating and dangerous Brazil, now being run by Bolsonaro who is happy to tame the Amazon rainforest for profit, since it serves a secondary purpose of genociding the indigenous populations who are in the way of his friends' profits.

imnsho, Greenwald has lost his way. I was a fan in the Snowden days, but he's got too much hate, as usual, for decent people, and too much tolerance for leadership that exploits hatred and victim blaming. I was a bit intrigued by this, which seemed to indicate he might be trying to open his mind: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/03/glenn-greenwald-the-bane-of-their-resistance

Quote
Sandgren had tweeted, retweeted, or “liked” disparaging remarks about Muslims and gays; he had highlighted an article suggesting that recent migration into Europe could be described as “Operation European Population Replacement”; he had called Marx’s ideas worse than Hitler’s. He had also promoted the Pizzagate conspiracy theory, which accuses Hillary Clinton of human trafficking. Sandgren told reporters that, though he didn’t support the alt-right, he did find “some of the content interesting.”

This became a small news story. Sandgren then lost his quarter-final, and, at the subsequent press conference, he read a statement condemning the media’s willingness to “turn neighbor against neighbor.” Later that day, he was surprised to receive a supportive message from Glenn Greenwald, the journalist, whom he followed on Twitter. (Sandgren also followed Roger Federer, Peter Thiel, and Paul Joseph Watson, of Infowars.)

Infowars is Alex Jones, by the way.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1803 on: January 26, 2019, 09:43:21 PM »
Daily Kos comes out against Gabbard: apparently she's a "pro-dictator democrat" but worse, she supports the wrong dictators ...

https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1088975262908338176

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1804 on: January 26, 2019, 11:18:37 PM »
Well, if you're not in favour of Venezuela regime change, like good Corporate Democrats are ('blah blah, democracy, blah, freedom'), you get the McCarthy-treatment:



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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1805 on: January 26, 2019, 11:37:15 PM »
And fortunately, the Corporate Democrats and their consultant buddies and mainstream media cronies get plenty of help from the intelligence services to keep the anti-war left out of positions of power:

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b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1806 on: January 27, 2019, 06:37:03 AM »
Ro Khanna Slams Politicians Supporting Coup In Venezuela

Link >>

Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1807 on: January 29, 2019, 09:52:59 AM »
Don't blame Trump personally for cancelling on Paris. He's merely the latest front man for a day.

Obama was no better nor was Bill Clinton or Al Gore when in Office. Obama sure 'talked the talk' but he never 'walked the walk.'

<snip, no McCarthyism, thanks; N.>

While Trump is only known for destroying everything that Obama did,
Obama has done more against AGW than ANY other president in history.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/23122016/obama-climate-change-legacy-trump-policies

Regardless of "talk the talk", here are some examples of when Obama actually "walked the walk" :

For example, the rejection of the Keystone XL pipeline alone put the brakes on Canadian Tar Sand development, which James Hansen rightfully declared "Game Over for the Climate" since Tar Sands are so vast and so carbon heavy they would bring the Earth's climate back to the early Eocene all by themselves if all were extracted from the Alberta grounds.

But there is much more. For example :

Quote
Obama's EPA moved on in his second term to tackling truck emissions, reining in methane leaks from the oil and gas industry and updating energy efficiency standards for home appliances.

and

Quote
The U.S. delegation also led the effort to amend an international agreement to reduce the highly potent greenhouse gases used in refrigeration, hydrofluorocarbons. That one agreement will negate the equivalent of 10 years of U.S. emissions.

and then the Clean Power Plan, which pretty much killed off any more new coal plants :

Quote
The largest target is his signature initiative, the Clean Power Plan, which the U.S. Supreme Court stayed in February until the legal challenges are resolved. The plan was designed to cut carbon pollution from power plants 30 percent from 2005 levels, similar to the cuts that would have been imposed by the failed Waxman-Markey bill. Despite widespread opposition to the plan, most states are on track to meet their obligations under it, at least three recent studies have shown.

and

Quote
Obama's legacy as an international leader on climate is more secure. The China-U.S. deal on carbon emissions that Obama and President Xi Jinping announced in November 2014 will stand as an even more important moment than the Paris agreement, some say. "For two countries that together account for 40 percent of the world's energy use and carbon emissions to go from laggards to leaders is really extraordinary," said Kammen, an international science envoy for the State Department. "And Paris would not have happened without the China agreement."

And I'm not even talking about the Paris Climate Accord, which Obama pushed real hard :

Quote
That momentum carried the U.S. into the climate negotiations in Paris in December 2015, when the countries of the world sealed the first climate pact requiring emissions-cutting commitments from every nation that has signed it. Now ratified by 118 of the 194 countries that signed, representing 80 percent of emissions, it is on track to become one of the most widely accepted treaties in the world.

The facts speak clearly : Obama's legacy on carbon emission reduction is UNPRECEDENTED in the history of US presidents. No other president did as much against Climate Change as Obama did.

Could he have done more ? Absolutely.
But can you name a President who did more than he did against Climate Change ?
I challenge you.

While Trump is only known for destroying everything good that Obama did.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 11:56:02 AM by Neven »
This is our planet. This is our time.
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ASILurker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1808 on: January 30, 2019, 01:53:49 AM »
Obama has done more against AGW than ANY other president in history.

So he's not taking credit for the Oil boom then or the wealth generated on the stock markets? Must have been fake news. But considering the competition, GHW Bush, Bill Clinton, GW Bush, yeah you could say that. A pretty low bar. He also actively fought the Court case Our Children's Trust to the hilt that's how concerned he was about getting serious action happening in the US.

His permanent legacy is what exactly? Given anything he did or signed or said has been undone. Compare Obama's Climate action legacy to Johnson's Civil Rights Act which has never been repealed. Obama doesn't have a legacy. Only new over-paid speaking engagements with wealthy corporatists. He's doing nothing for climate chnage action today - nothing - not a single thing! 

What is there to defend except a kind of mystical belief and aura that he actually achieved something sustainable when he didn't. He'll always be a war criminal President too. Like his "new mates" were.

The core reason why GHG emissions went down for a period during Obama's term was because of the GFC. That's it. Any other 'reduction' is marginal at best and irrelevant it's so insignificant. That's how I see it.

The way I see it, if there was a time ripe for change in the USA it was in 2009 to roll out a New Green Deal - to actually a large portion of that TARP money to develop new industries and redevelop the heartland of manufacturing that had been so devastated the prior 20 years and all but destroyed in the GFC lunacy.

But no, the New Green Deal is merely a "hope for change" held by a small minority group of elected Democrats and their visionary supporters now in 2019. A decade later. But Obama was in a prime postion in 2009 to be not only a visionary for hope and change but to actually act on that and drive economic reform across the nation.

But no, because he was ill-prepared to be a decent Democratic President like say Roosevelt, Kennedy or Johnson (not that they were necessarily the bees knees in all respects either.)

The problem was "I am a really nice guy" and "Let's sit down and talk about it - you'll see the logic in my ideas and will agree with me" is NOT a rational political strategy for success in the USA given the TPTB aligned against such enlightened reforms needed to truly address GHG and climate change.

So Obama et al gave Billion$ to GM say when they could have given them some, taken a partial Nationalization stake that could have been repaid by selling that "nationalized" stake on the open market 4-10 years later and instead seriously tackled the fundamental Systemic barriers to alt-renewable energy and greening of the country possibly turning places like Flint Michigan into a New Green Deal Hub.

But he was not up to the task and neither were the rest of the Democrats or the Republican power bases. My point is NOT that it's all Obama's fault, or he's a Bad bad guy --- my point is that he didn't even realize he could have tried something like this. He was very ill-prepared as President and he really didn't have a clue what he stood for and what he wanted to achieve or how to go about it.

Why praise someone for doing basically NOTHING as if he did when he didn't? How does that drive change and reform or bring in to reality a NEW GREEN DEAL today? Go look who Obama is talking to in 2018/2016 .... CORPORATE-MEDIA SHILLS and the Mega-Wealthy and charging them Million$ for it. Is he speaking about AGW/CC urgency and strategies to address it? No, he is not!

That's the "true colours"[/i] of the man right there. Forget him and move on is what I suggest but remember enough of the IMAGE CULT-ivation to not make the same mistake again in the Ballot Box and in the Primaries next time.

By 2012 he had lost the Democrat Majority in Congress instead of building on it by appealing to that sector of society that would end up Voting for Donald Trump in 2016. Clueless imho. Clueless and incompetent or he always was a FAKE candidate, I don't know.

Obama both Lacked Vision and basic Logic if he ever saw himself as an Agent of Positive Change for the USA and the battle against Global warming.  Why people would now be looking at his time in Office as "the good old days" or a period of "great environmental successes" defies belief and the facts. imo at least.

Better than Trump? Well sure. But if that's your "yardstick" you may as well be comparing Obama to windup monkey toy clapping little cymbals and saying he did so much better. Because when it comes to long term positive actions to drive action against Climate Change the USA is the Laggard of the more enlightened global community - from Europe to India to China.

As I pointed out it took him his entire 8 years to \produce his action plan to tackle Climate Change .... Here read the date of publication and the announcement from his office AFTER Trump had won the 2016 election.

CORRECTION - Blast, now I cannot find that Report/Plan and can now also see I've a muddled memory on this because he did produce several others during his term. Anyway, there was a Climate Action Report completed in Dec 2016 by the Obama White House. Sorry I cannot find it now - I thought I had saved it, downloaded it too but can't even find on my pc either.

Here fwiw is his 2013 Climate Action PLan fwiw, all water under the bridge I suppose.  https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/image/president27sclimateactionplan.pdf

and here is a summary of Obama's Admin "achievements" regarding that plan in mid-2016
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2016/06/28/third-anniversary-climate-action-plan

and other appraisal
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/23122016/obama-climate-change-legacy-trump-policies

SCOTUS impacts
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/04/us/politics/supreme-court-chief-justice-john-roberts-epa-coal.html

LEGACY Issues
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/20/trump-coal-emissions-power-plants-rules-obama
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-to-rescind-obama-era-coal-emissions-standards/
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 03:17:45 AM by Lurk »

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1809 on: January 30, 2019, 07:53:23 PM »
Has everyone forgotten the long lasting impact that Jimmy Carter had WRT Climate Change?
Reagan could tear Jimmy's solar system off the White House roof, but he couldn't pluck the insulation from the attics of millions of home owners.


I feared an overtly Christian president at the time, and his foreign policy was negatively influenced by Brzezinski, but he was the best environmental president of my lifetime.
Terry

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1810 on: February 02, 2019, 04:23:38 AM »
That is your claim. Mine, and that of several others such as Hudson and Black is  is that the 4TUS$ was to save the banks, not the economy, and that the claim above is propaganda from the oligarchs.
I lost an excellent job back then and an excellent firm collapsed because the bank didn't want to lend money - for something that would have been routine and the 2nd rank bankers assured was absolutely no problem. So my boss ran to the airport and signed a huge contract (with a very business-serious rich country who didn't want to deal with big Siemens, for that would risk their high rank in the anti-corruption index). When he came back the upper bankers had intervened and refused to lend the 70million€ we needed to manufacture stuff and hire workers for the project. So he had to file bankruptcy. (Ultimately his fault, of course, for he just couldn't wait to sign the contract.)

That was in Germany. Hypo Bank. A first tremor of the global financial crisis.

That's how insolvent banks ruin the economy. They serve the grease that keep the smaller wheels turning.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 05:24:25 AM by Martin Gisser »

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1811 on: February 02, 2019, 04:52:21 AM »
imnsho, Greenwald has lost his way. I was a fan in the Snowden days, but he's got too much hate, as usual, for decent people, and too much tolerance for leadership that exploits hatred and victim blaming. I was a bit intrigued by this, which seemed to indicate he might be trying to open his mind: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/09/03/glenn-greenwald-the-bane-of-their-resistance
Same here. I've written him off in 2016 and put him in the same box as Jimmy Dore. Not much will for objective analysis. Too much bile and visceral thinking and vain self-righteousness. An axe grinder.

The New Yorker article confirms my impression:
Quote
Greenwald noted that some gay teens respond to persecution by assimilating, or by escaping into the arts. He then said, “My strategy was: you have waged war on me, and now I’m going to wage war back on you. I had to hide who I was, because it was shameful and wrong. And I wanted to make them feel the same way—‘No, you’re shameful and wrong.’ ” This force, he said, had propelled his success on debate teams in high school and in college
(My emph. That debate-team attitude in polit discourse pissed me off last century. I only care now because politics is a relevant element of the biogeosphere meanwhile.)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 05:17:24 AM by Martin Gisser »

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1812 on: February 05, 2019, 01:36:24 AM »
Crooked union bosses and the Philly democratic machine: kingmaker indicted for embezzlement

"The bombshell charges announced Wednesday against building trades leader John "Johnny Doc" Dougherty — a Philadelphia labor kingpin whose union is the single biggest independent source of campaign funding in the state — threaten to sap statehouse and congressional Democrats of a mega-donor, slow the party’s momentum in the Philadelphia suburbs, and sideline the man who orchestrated the Democratic takeover of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. "

"Dougherty was charged with embezzlement, bribery, and theft in a 116-count indictment that alleged he and others stole more than $600,000 in union funds and repeatedly strong-armed public and private officials with the subtlety of a sledgehammer."

“I think this puts Pennsylvania more in play for Trump,” he said, adding that without Dougherty, “the power structure of the Democratic Party goes totally to the left.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/31/pennsylvania-democrats-indictment-union-political-boss-1138312

sidd



sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1813 on: February 05, 2019, 07:24:02 PM »
Ryan Grim at the intercept describes how the shit sandwich is made: Pelosi puts the shiv into single payer

"Less than a month after Democrats ...  won back control of the House of Representatives ... the top health policy aide to then-prospective House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met with Blue Cross Blue Shield executives and assured them that party leadership had strong reservations about single-payer health care ..."

" “Lower your health care costs and prescription drug prices.” ... The “your” refers to insurers ..."

https://theintercept.com/2019/02/05/nancy-pelosi-medicare-for-all/

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1814 on: February 07, 2019, 10:27:32 AM »
While the boss is busy fueling the political wrestle match with Trump, the aides assure the donors that nothing will change (and millions of Americans don't have cheap access to medical care):

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b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1815 on: February 07, 2019, 07:37:46 PM »
Boom!


Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1816 on: February 07, 2019, 08:42:40 PM »
This guy is still learning to be a YouTube political commentator, but that video clip of Hillary Clinton... There's only one word for it: psychopath.

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b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1817 on: February 08, 2019, 08:08:43 AM »
The Millennial Era of Climate Politics Has Arrived

Quote
When asked whether she [AOC] was offended that Nancy Pelosi had, a day earlier, referred to the new plan as “the green dream, or whatever they call it,” Ocasio-Cortez just smiled. “No, I think it is a green dream,” she replied. She added that the original New Deal had seemed pretty dreamy itself.
Link >> https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/02/aocgreen-new-deal-new-era-millennial-climate-politics/582295/?utm_source=feed

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1818 on: February 08, 2019, 10:48:09 AM »
Quote
Nancy Pelosi had, a day earlier, referred to the new plan as “the green dream, or whatever they call it

Did she really? How surprising.
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b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1819 on: February 08, 2019, 11:31:40 AM »
"...or whatever they call it..."

As if she didn't know what it's called. What a cheap and obvious smear attempt. This is exactly what she is told to say.

AOC and the Justice Democrats for that matter are wrong in one thing: You can't reform the Dems from the inside...

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1820 on: February 09, 2019, 07:06:26 AM »
And another candidate watering down on Medicare for all.

Booker, you are out!


Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1821 on: February 09, 2019, 06:02:39 PM »
"...or whatever they call it..."

As if she didn't know what it's called. What a cheap and obvious smear attempt. This is exactly what she is told to say.

AOC and the Justice Democrats for that matter are wrong in one thing: You can't reform the Dems from the inside...

Maybe you missed the first reform step they did on superdelegates. Or maybe you saw too much pro-GOP "progressive Dem" BS.

Pelosi and AOC do work together. Here's a recent long interview with AOC from evil MSM. "Green dream" non-thing at ca. 14:25
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 06:11:21 PM by Martin Gisser »

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1822 on: February 09, 2019, 06:23:00 PM »
Pelosi and AOC do work together.

Hey Martin,

they do! I know that.

Does that mean the Democratic Party is in line? Do every candidate follow the same political goal? Of course not!

It all comes down to the issues for me. I don't really care about the person.

When you want an issue to be addressed you go with the candidate that is consistent! Take Sanders, he is preaching the same gospel for how long now? 30 Years? I know he would not betray his ideology.

Now to Pelosi: When she is playing this "green dream" theatre, this is a) a way to distance herself from the issue and b) to please the donors. I don't trust such people!

AOC brilliantly replied to Pelosi that 'yeah, it's a dream, and the New Deal was a dream once too".

Quote
Or maybe you saw too much pro-GOP "progressive" BS.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean Martin. Please elaborate.

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1823 on: February 09, 2019, 07:09:46 PM »
Now to Pelosi: When she is playing this "green dream" theatre, this is a) a way to distance herself from the issue and b) to please the donors. I don't trust such people!
Or c) needs to please the more conservative (stupid masochist) voters in flyover America. Because Pelosi wants to get things done. And she can get things done (e.g. Affordable Care Act). That requires compromise with yesterday folk, not just the donors. So, I am as happy with Pelosi as I am delighted by AOC: One is the vanguard, the other is the cavalry.

Quote
Quote
Or maybe you saw too much pro-GOP "progressive" BS.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean Martin. Please elaborate.
Just look at the polit threads here: Evil Pelosi! Dems as corrupt as GOP! Etc. etc.
I won't say more, don't want to piss off Neven again.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 07:26:39 PM by Martin Gisser »

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1824 on: February 09, 2019, 07:35:02 PM »
(If you feel uncomfortable to discuss it here, feel free to PM me.)

I agree Pelosi can get things done. But she does not want the things done that i want to have done. Like the green new deal in this case, so i can't support her.

Btw, politically i'm (way more) more on the left then even AOC, so no, this is not about GOP talking points.

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1825 on: February 09, 2019, 10:37:12 PM »
Quoth Joe Romm:

>> Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal reflects 2016 Democratic Platform, but is much stronger
(...)
So, the Green New Deal is a logical outgrowth of the 2016 Democratic Platform — with ever-growing momentum. The fact that it calls for a faster transition to clean energy is also logical given that climate science has gotten even more urgent since 2016 — and that we now have a president who has been pushing emissions in the wrong direction. <<

https://thinkprogress.org/ocasio-cortezs-green-new-deal-echoes-2016-democratic-platform-but-much-stronger-1b370856b8df/

-----------------
To be explicit about my above remark: I consider Jimmy Dore, Russia Today, etc. and half the commentariat in the polit threads here as effectively pro-GOP. Because the effect is what counts for me. The strategy 2016 was to piss off Dem leaning voters to stay home.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 10:52:05 PM by Martin Gisser »

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1826 on: February 10, 2019, 05:07:10 AM »
Well, as i remember the 2016 events, i saw a very popular candidate Sanders who, without any doubt in my mind, would have become president if it wasn't for corruption and undemocratic intrigues inside the Democratic party.

However, i reject the notion of being 'pro-GOP'. Not one single right-wing argument was made.

We can disagree on politics or strategy but comparing someone on the radical left to a GOP minion will not bring us forward in discussions.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1827 on: February 10, 2019, 05:08:51 AM »

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1828 on: February 10, 2019, 06:18:18 AM »
Well, as i remember the 2016 events, i saw a very popular candidate Sanders who, without any doubt in my mind, would have become president if it wasn't for corruption and undemocratic intrigues inside the Democratic party.

However, i reject the notion of being 'pro-GOP'. Not one single right-wing argument was made.

We can disagree on politics or strategy but comparing someone on the radical left to a GOP minion will not bring us forward in discussions.
Sorry, that is effectively pro-GOP propaganda. Sanders was not popular enough. He lost the primaries. (And BTW wasn't even a member of the party.) Get over it, Berners.

The rightwingnuts don't win with arguments. They win with lies and BS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
Quote
Proponents of Horseshoe Theory argue that the extreme left and the extreme right are closer to each other than either is to the political center
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 06:50:35 AM by Martin Gisser »

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1829 on: February 10, 2019, 06:40:47 AM »
[Kulinski video]
As if evidencing the horseshoe theory, alt-right Breitbart chimes in:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/02/05/report-nancy-pelosi-aide-told-health-execs-they-wont-back-medicare-all/

Was it Pelosi herself who did the powerpoint? Nope. One slide says:
Agreement in Democratic caucus on the importance of universal coverage.

The question is, how to get there. (Not a trivial task given the entrenched trllion-$$ system.)

Plus, it is urgent to lower drug prices now - while Trump and McConnell are still in power. Looks like Pelosi is the only one to get that done - while Kulinski et al prefer to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Here are the slides: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5724245-Health-Powerpoint-Final.html#document/p1
Have a look and forget Kulinski's BS. Pelosi's advisor seems to try make a point for improving ACA. But the slides don't tell what he was talking.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/02/is-nancy-pelosi-opposed-to-medicare-for-all/

-------------------------------------------
P.S.:
The Breitbart article actually isn't that bad below the BS headline.
Quote
Henry Connelly, a spokesman for Pelosi, said that Speaker Pelosi remains committed to offering Democrats hearing opportunities for Medicare for All legislation.

Connelly said:

Speaker Pelosi has ensured that Medicare for All will have hearings in the House and tapped Congressman Brian Higgins to take the lead on Medicare buy-in legislation. For the first time, House committees will be seriously examining and tackling some of the questions and possible solutions raised by Medicare for All legislation.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 07:28:02 AM by Martin Gisser »

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1830 on: February 10, 2019, 07:38:18 AM »
Quote
I won't say more, don't want to piss off Neven again.

Only a guess, but i think it's things like linking breitbart and calling people GOP propagandist is what Neven opposes, not the fact you state your opinion here.

Again, i kindly ask you to not discredit me as a kind of right-wing propagandist. I consider myself as radically left and you are insulting me by saying things like "that is effectively pro-GOP propaganda". We can't discuss the issues like that.

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1831 on: February 10, 2019, 08:20:49 AM »
Well, as i remember the 2016 events, i saw a very popular candidate Sanders who, without any doubt in my mind, would have become president if it wasn't for corruption and undemocratic intrigues inside the Democratic party.

However, i reject the notion of being 'pro-GOP'. Not one single right-wing argument was made.

We can disagree on politics or strategy but comparing someone on the radical left to a GOP minion will not bring us forward in discussions.
Sorry, that is effectively pro-GOP propaganda.
(my emph.)

Example from Oct. 2016, a Trump tweet:
Quote
“Bernie should pull his endorsement of Crooked Hillary after she decieved him and then attacked him and his supporters.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/02/bernie-sanders-defends-hillary-clinton-recording

I see no problem with linking to Breitbart here. Russia Today is also no problem.
Now I yield the echo chamber.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 11:39:29 PM by Martin Gisser »

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1832 on: February 10, 2019, 07:38:01 PM »
People who support Pelosi, Clinton and all the other neoliberal hypocrites, are not serious about AGW. It's as simple as that.
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1833 on: February 10, 2019, 08:36:48 PM »
Warren pulls a Kamela

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1834 on: February 10, 2019, 11:36:22 PM »
Apropos health care and corporate Democrats: John Dingell (D - car industry) is gone.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/02/08/692744027/former-rep-john-dingell-left-an-enduring-health-care-legacy
Quote
Former Rep. John Dingell, the Michigan Democrat who holds the record as the longest-serving member of the U.S. House, died Thursday night in Michigan. He was 92.

And while his name was not familiar to many, his impact on the nation, and on health care in particular, was immense.

[...]

As a tribute to his father, who served before him and who introduced the first congressional legislation to establish national health insurance during the New Deal, Dingell introduced his own national health insurance bill at the start of every Congress.

And when the House passed what would become the Affordable Care Act in 2009, leaders named the legislation after him. Dingell sat by the side of President Barack Obama when he signed the bill into law in 2010.

Dingell was "a beloved pillar of the Congress and one of the greatest legislators in American history," said a statement from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. "Yet, among the vast array of historic legislative achievements, few hold greater meaning than his tireless commitment to the health of the American people."

[...]

--------------
P.S.: Who cares about U.S. health care politics should know him. He gave a concise history lesson in a series of tweets 2017. His life work is the paradigm of the whole conundrum. Guess what he said about Hillary... and Obamacare...

--------------------
P.P.S.: F* stupid U.S. healthcare. The higher the mortality rate of the elderly middle class murrican man, the better (*) (except exceptions). Opioids to The People!

-----------------------
P.P.P.S.: Them proud young (male) turkeys stand on the shoulders of giants they have no idea of. Nuff said.

--------------------
(*) for the planet
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 01:19:02 AM by Martin Gisser »

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1835 on: February 11, 2019, 06:08:24 AM »
Re: "The higher the mortality rate of the elderly middle class murrican man, the better (except exceptions). Opioids to The People!"

This quote at the end of a panegyric to Dingell is quite ... unhelpful. Dingell would have been in vehement disagreement; Detroit suffers the scourge as severely as any.

And as a friend to many "elderly middle class murrican" men, including a few indeed under opioid medication, allow to me to say, cordially: fuck you.

sidd

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1836 on: February 12, 2019, 01:30:39 PM »
a panegyric to Dingell is quite ... unhelpful. Dingell would have been in vehement disagreement; Detroit suffers the scourge as severely as any.
My intention was not praising Dingell but to show that things aren't as simple as some young turkeys paint it ("Nancy is not your friend!" etc). A corporate Democrat can be a champion of universal healthcare.

I haven't watched Dingell's car industry lobbying much, last century, but it looks similar to Germany: Resisting any decent technological progress, resisting any decent regulation or taxation of this lousy failure of a market. Then whining when the dinosaurs they produce are no longer competitive.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1837 on: February 13, 2019, 11:52:34 AM »
In view of the recent occasion:
The Lobby - USA, episode 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lSjXhMUVKE&feature=youtu.be

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1838 on: February 14, 2019, 11:33:22 PM »
Jimmy Dore reports ... never saw anyone else mention this in the news:
Just one counterexample:


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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1839 on: February 15, 2019, 12:13:59 AM »
Corporate Democrats gag discussion of poverty: Minsky at the Nation

"Susie wrote a resolution prior to the Chicago DNC meeting in August 2018 to form an official Poverty Council of the DNC. "

"Susie was contacted by DNC staff members who rejected the proposal for a Poverty Council and altered the resolution to make it a toothless reaffirmation of the Democratic Party’s commitment to poverty issues, with no establishment of a Poverty Council. "

" Despite her rejecting their changes, the staff sent out their version in the first meeting notice sent to the DNC members. "

"For months, she was told to wait. The agenda was not ready yet ... one day from the deadline for the publication of the DNC agenda, Susie was contacted by the DNC staff and told that they were not going to put the Poverty Council on the agenda "

"She has reserved a conference room at the Washington Marriott Marquis hotel, the same hotel as the DNC meeting, on her own dime ..."

"doesn’t their fear of addressing poverty mean that they are tacitly accepting mass poverty as a constant in American society? "

"By Bill Clinton’s presidency the shift away from supporting programs designed to address poverty became official party policy ... "

"The prevailing ideology of the past four decades, call it neoliberalism or market fundamentalism, embraced by the mainstream of both parties, offers no solution to American poverty. Rather, it tacitly accepts it as part of the landscape. So an alternative poverty policy will, by definition, fly in the face of Democratic establishment orthodoxy. "

https://www.thenation.com/article/democratic-national-committee-poverty-susie-shannon/

sidd

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1840 on: February 15, 2019, 01:06:58 AM »
https://www.thenation.com/article/democratic-national-committee-poverty-susie-shannon/
While Clinton blame is not missing, there's no word about Reagan's destruction of mental health care institutions. (Shannon is from California,, where it all started.) About 1/3 of the U.S. homeless should be in a psychiatric clinic. Dunno prison population numbers, but I guess it is as crazy.
https://sites.psu.edu/psy533wheeler/2017/02/08/u01-ronald-reagan-and-the-federal-deinstitutionalization-of-mentally-ill-patients/

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1841 on: February 15, 2019, 01:10:13 AM »
Jimmy Dore reports ... never saw anyone else mention this in the news:
Just one counterexample:

That's Ilhan Omar stating her opinion on this particular issue. Do you have an example of a panel of people in suits discussing Ilhan Omar's opinions on this particular issue? Preferably one saying similar things to Jimmy Dore, or that agrees with Ilhan Omar's arguments?

And which Democrats have condemned her? Do they happen to be in bed with AIPAC (like Clinton and Obama)?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 01:15:28 AM by Neven »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1842 on: February 15, 2019, 04:03:13 AM »
Jimmy Dore reports ... never saw anyone else mention this in the news:
Just one counterexample:

That's Ilhan Omar stating her opinion on this particular issue. Do you have an example of a panel of people in suits discussing Ilhan Omar's opinions on this particular issue? Preferably one saying similar things to Jimmy Dore, or that agrees with Ilhan Omar's arguments?

On this particular issue, I have not found anyone disagreeing with Ilhan.

Quote
And which Democrats have condemned her? Do they happen to be in bed with AIPAC (like Clinton and Obama)?

I don't think any Democrat condemned her. Do you ?
They all accepted her apology.

Meanwhile, the hypocrisy of Trump condemning Ilhan Omar for anti-semitic tropes is truly mind boggling, as brilliantly exposed here :

This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1843 on: February 15, 2019, 09:43:16 AM »
And which Democrats have condemned her? Do they happen to be in bed with AIPAC (like Clinton and Obama)?

I don't think any Democrat condemned her. Do you ?
They all accepted her apology.

The second sentence from the video you posted: Minnesota Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar was accused this week by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other top Democrats of spreading "anti-semitic tropes".

Condemned, accused, tomayto, tomahto.

Of course, if you happily agree that BDS is anti-semitic (because you have neocon/neolib leanings), it's easy to then focus on Trump, Trump, Trump. But thanks for confirming that the mainstream media also toes that line. I think it will be hard for Martin to find a panel of people in suits - most of them out-of-touch millionaires - agreeing that Ilhan Omar's stance or support of BDS has nothing to do with anti-semitism whatsoever.
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1844 on: February 15, 2019, 02:58:45 PM »
Yes AIPAC is bad. First time I'm with Lurk. :) AIPAC can rightly be compared to the NRA. That made a lot of Dems squeal.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sorry-democrats-your-nra-is-spelled-aipac_us_59d62c62e4b0666ad0c3cb12
Sorry, Democrats: Your NRA Is Spelled AIPAC

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1845 on: February 15, 2019, 03:47:16 PM »
Sounds like we finally have a 'kumbaya moment' here!! :)

And all prompted by the brave and truthful words of my awesome Rep, Ilhan Omar. She was the first person that my daughter got to vote for, and right when we came back from the polling place, there she was at our front door, with one of my daughters good friends who was helping to make a film about her. Believe me, she is every bit as poised, bright, and wonderful in person as you see her in her fierce questioning of the slime bag Elliott Abrams!
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1846 on: February 16, 2019, 09:57:05 AM »
And which Democrats have condemned her? Do they happen to be in bed with AIPAC (like Clinton and Obama)?

I don't think any Democrat condemned her. Do you ?
They all accepted her apology.

The second sentence from the video you posted: Minnesota Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar was accused this week by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other top Democrats of spreading "anti-semitic tropes".

Condemned, accused, tomayto, tomahto.

Hear this, Neven, I don't know much about BDS or AIPAC.

I mentioned that Pelosi and the Democrats in general accepted Omar's apology.
So if you say that they "condemned" her, it was before they accepted her.

Meanwhile, the continued hypocrisy of Trump condemning Ilhan Omar for anti-semitic tropes is truly mind boggling.

Don't you agree ?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 10:22:35 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1847 on: February 16, 2019, 11:02:00 AM »
I agree, but I already knew Trump was a hypocrite. If I find someone who is an even bigger hypocrite, is Trump then off the hook?

The Democrats demanding apologies from Ilhan Omar, are Corporate Democrats and enemies of the American people, because they are going to get Trump re-elected (after getting him elected in the first place).

AIPAC funds both Corporate Democrats and Republicans. That's because they are the same, they're both enemies of the American people.
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1848 on: February 19, 2019, 10:44:58 PM »
DNC keeps sucking on corporate teat:

"The DNC said it would only take money from corporations in line with the organization’s values in 2016. But its Resolutions Committee that met in Washington, DC, this week stopped short of banning for-profit corporate PAC donations altogether. The committee instead chose to study the issue over the next 18 months. "

"The ban would only apply to the DNC, not state parties, individual candidates, or the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee or Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. "

"The DNC quietly did away with Obama’s corporate PAC donations ban in 2016 ..."

https://www.vox.com/2019/2/16/18226344/democratic-national-committee-corporate-pac-donations-tom-perez

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/430355-dnc-punts-on-measure-to-reduce-role-of-corporate-pac-money

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/dnc-delays-decision-on-banning-corporate-pac-money

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1849 on: February 24, 2019, 10:23:23 AM »
There have been 1878 posts in this thread.

Lots of accusations against "corporate" Democrats, named and unnamed.
No accusations against Republicans, but if you bring that up you're chased off the thread as being off topic.

So I was wondering.

Do we have a list of Democrats that are NOT considered "corporate" by the posters in this forum ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.