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Author Topic: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out  (Read 102000 times)

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1800 on: January 11, 2019, 01:33:11 AM »
From the "can't make this up" department: markos scams donors for US$3.33/rose, gives Pelosi 25000 roses

Those boots had better taste good.

https://t.co/tzOIosnA88

sidd



sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1801 on: January 15, 2019, 07:42:09 AM »
It strikes me that while corporate democrats and corporate republicans bemoan convergence of rightists and leftists on populist rebellion, they elide convergence of corporate republicans and corporate democrats for corporate dominion.

I propose new parties: Populists and Corporates

PS: i note that Commodus, now known as the horrible, had the temerity to transpose the motto into Populus Senatusque Romanus. And he taxed the senators to pay off the populace. So he was assassinated. Mmmm ...

sidd
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 09:01:51 AM by sidd »

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1802 on: January 15, 2019, 09:07:47 AM »
Greenwald at The Intercept:

Quote
As Democratic Elites Reunite With Neocons, the Party’s Voters Are Becoming Far More Militaristic and Pro-War Than Republicans

But what is remarkable about the new polling data on Syria is that the vast bulk of support for keeping troops there comes from Democratic Party voters, while Republicans and independents overwhelming favor their removal.

(...)

Identical trends can be seen on the question of Trump’s announced intention to withdraw half of the U.S. troops currently in Afghanistan, where Democrats are far more supportive of keeping troops there than Republicans and independents.

This case is even more stark since Obama ran in 2008 on a pledge to end the war in Afghanistan and bring all troops home. Throughout the Obama years, polling data consistently showed that huge majorities of Democrats favored a withdrawal of all troops from Afghanistan:

(...)

This is, of course, not the first time that Democratic voters have wildly shifted their “beliefs” based on the party affiliation of the person occupying the Oval Office. The party’s base spent the Bush-Cheney years denouncing war on terror policies, such as assassinations, drones, and Guantánamo as moral atrocities and war crimes, only to suddenly support those policies once they became hallmarks of the Obama presidency.

But what’s happening here is far more insidious. A core ethos of the anti-Trump #Resistance has become militarism, jingoism, and neoconservatism. Trump is frequently attacked by Democrats using longstanding Cold War scripts wielded for decades against them by the far right: Trump is insufficiently belligerent with U.S. enemies; he’s willing to allow the Bad Countries to take over by bringing home U.S. soldiers; his efforts to establish less hostile relations with adversary countries is indicative of weakness or even treason.

At the same time, Democratic policy elites in Washington are once again formally aligning with neoconservatives, even to the point of creating joint foreign policy advocacy groups (a reunion that predated Trump). The leading Democratic Party think tank, the Center for American Progress, donated $200,000 to the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute and has multilevel alliances with warmongering institutions. By far the most influential liberal media outlet, MSNBC, is stuffed full of former Bush-Cheney officials, security state operatives, and agents, while even the liberal stars are notably hawkish (a decade ago, long before she went as far down the pro-war and Cold Warrior rabbit hole that she now occupies, Rachel Maddow heralded herself as a “national security liberal” who was “all about counterterrorism”).

All of this has resulted in a new generation of Democrats, politically engaged for the first time as a result of fears over Trump, being inculcated with values of militarism and imperialism, trained to view once-discredited, war-loving neocons such as Bill Kristol, Max Boot, and David Frum, and former CIA and FBI leaders as noble experts and trusted voices of conscience. It’s inevitable that all of these trends would produce a party that is increasingly pro-war and militaristic, and polling data now leaves little doubt that this transformation — which will endure long after Trump is gone — is well under way.
Compare, compare, compare

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1803 on: January 15, 2019, 09:26:28 AM »
Re:  vast bulk of support for keeping troops there comes from Democratic Party voters

I think i posted about it on another thread. It is true, War is popular on the coasts. Much less so in the heartlands, even in those little towns with banners on the lamp posts extolling many who served and many who died in wars for empire. A lot of the population is ex-military, VA been screwing em for years but still better than teachers and coal miners.  They know their kids keep signing up for lack of hope, the jobs are gone, even the land is dying from corn soy rotation and corporate leased pig/chicken/beef concentration camp operations.

Empire is expensive. In blood and gold, certainly, but much more so in lives and hopes.

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1804 on: Today at 12:45:14 AM »
Taibbi at rollingstone with a bit of history: of neocons and corporate dems

"Because they started this Middle East disaster on a lie and even bragged about doing so — “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality” — they undermined faith in a smorgasbord of American institutions, from the news media to the presidency to the intelligence community to their own party."

"longtime Democratic Party advisers are once again triangulating against their party’s own progressive wing, which was the core strategy of the original “Third Way” Democrats in the early Nineties. Party leaders now want to kick out populist, antiwar liberals in the same way Frum once wanted to excommunicate antiwar conservatives."

"Glenn Greenwald noted in the Intercept last year, the “most extreme and discredited neocons” began uniting with Democrats “long before the ascension of Donald Trump.” "

Taibbi quotes Heilbrun from 2014: “Even as they castigate Mr. Obama, the neocons may be preparing a more brazen feat: aligning themselves with Hillary Rodham Clinton and her nascent presidential campaign, in a bid to return to the driver’s seat of American foreign policy.”

Robert Kagan talked about a union with Democrats, hoping to replace the term “neoconservative” with the less-infamous-sounding “liberal interventionist.”

"The union achieved formal expression in 2016 with groups like the Alliance for Securing Democracy, which is backed by neocons like Kristol and Jamie Fly as well as former Joe Biden and Clinton campaign security adviser Jake Sullivan."

"The neocons are trying to create with Democrats a true political movement of shared goals and common adversaries. Apart from “liberal interventionism,” they’re emphasizing stridently anti-populist leanings "

"Just don’t be surprised if “liberal interventionists” are sitting in the White House once Trump leaves the scene. These are determined revolutionaries who’ve been scheming for years to throw a saddle on the Democratic Party after decades in bed with Republicans. Sadly, they have willing partners over there."

Read the whole thing:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/bulwark-weekly-standard-778709/

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1805 on: Today at 02:05:56 AM »
Adler at NYT: Populists are not the ones retreating from democracy, but the centrists are

a) most skeptical of democracy
b) least likely to support free anf fair elections
c) least likely to support liberal institutions
d) more supportive of authoritarians than the far left worlwide, but he finds that "In the United States, centrists’ support for a strongman-type leader far surpasses that of the right and the left."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/23/opinion/international-world/centrists-democracy.html

I remarked elsewhere that corporate dems and corporate repubs were allying. That's because they are more like each other.

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b_lumenkraft

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1806 on: Today at 06:43:21 AM »

I remarked elsewhere that corporate dems and corporate repubs were allying. That's because they are more like each other.

sidd

Hey Sidd,

as an American politics nerd from Germany, watching the whole thing from the outside, comparing to the European political landscape, i couldn't agree more.

Here in Europe, you have a vivid landscape of parties on the whole political spectrum. In the US there are two corporate parties. One is right wing, the other far right.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1807 on: Today at 09:37:47 AM »
Re:  "In the US there are two corporate parties. One is right wing, the other far right."

Yes. A phrase on this side of the pond is "two wings of the same bird of prey."

sidd