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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #250 on: May 13, 2017, 10:39:02 PM »
You can debate whether he or any other president deserves to do this, but it's a fact that it simply looks very bad. And especially in Obama's case when you think back of his campaign for the 2008 election.

It's something that makes a lot of poor people angry, and then they go and vote for Trump.

I'm catching up on Jimmy Dore videos, and he has one about how this makes the Democratic Party look. Video is called Ex DNC Chair Scolds Bernie Sanders "Mind His Own Business!":

! No longer available

Stef Zamorano makes some good points. Debbie Wasserman Schultz just needs to go away. Why is she even on TV? It's a disaster for the Democratic Party.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 10:56:28 PM by Neven »
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #251 on: May 13, 2017, 11:01:53 PM »
More on that horrible Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Video is called Debbie Wasserman Schultz Lies To Room Full Of Progressives About Single Payer:

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ivica

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #252 on: May 14, 2017, 01:13:24 AM »
So, why not strive for a little more purity? Why not rally behind people like Warren, Sanders, Gabbard and this congressman called Ro Khanna who attended a recent live Jimmy Dore Show...

Debbie Lusignan have some objections wrt Khanna,
"Jimmy Dore Misses BIG Detail in Ro Khanna Fundraising Criticism" by Sane Progressive,
at YT:

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #253 on: May 14, 2017, 09:15:01 AM »
So, why not strive for a little more purity? Why not rally behind people like Warren, Sanders, Gabbard and this congressman called Ro Khanna who attended a recent live Jimmy Dore Show...

Debbie Lusignan have some objections wrt Khanna,
"Jimmy Dore Misses BIG Detail in Ro Khanna Fundraising Criticism" by Sane Progressive,
at YT:


Amazing!!
Her voice is like chalk dragging across a blackboard.
When she emphasized a point, my wife left the room.
She makes the Black Witch of the West seem attractive by comparison.
Her delivery is horrendously bad.
She comes across as a bitter, hateful, nasty person.


Yet


Everything she says is true.
She pulls down Khanna's pants, and laughs at what she finds.
She calls out the White Helmets - shits in their hats, and demands that they wear them.
She presents facts that progressives need to, but do not want to hear.


She is no comedian.
She will never be the spokesman for anything or anyone.
I'll try to listen through every angry, hate filled, truthful presentation she makes.


Thanks Ivica
Terry








Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #254 on: May 14, 2017, 01:03:31 PM »
Amazing!!
Her voice is like chalk dragging across a blackboard.
When she emphasized a point, my wife left the room.
She makes the Black Witch of the West seem attractive by comparison.
Her delivery is horrendously bad.
She comes across as a bitter, hateful, nasty person.

Yes, I occasionally watch her videos, but not for very long.  ;)

Quote
Yet

Everything she says is true.
She pulls down Khanna's pants, and laughs at what she finds.

Indeed. I wonder if Jimmy Dore will get back to this, as it's pretty condemning. That's too bad, because that Ro Khanna seemed pretty genuine to me in those Jimmy Dore videos.

I understand that his campaign leader cosies up to people like Podesta and Clinton, because it's very difficult to get a foot in the door otherwise. Even Sanders is trying to sail through those dire straits, because all-out war would be counter-productive. But asking whether Clinton would want to attend Ro Khanna's wedding because it might bring in all that tech money. Or Khanna being in favour of the TPP...

I hope Jimmy Dore puts up another reaction, talking about these things. And I also wonder what Khanna has to say.

Hvala from me too, Ivica.
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #255 on: May 16, 2017, 06:03:37 AM »
Larry Krasner, DA Philly. Against death penalty, represented Occupy, Black Lives Matter. Defense attorney running for prosecutor position.

Lets see if he gets in, or the Philly democrat machine destroys him.

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #256 on: May 16, 2017, 06:07:09 AM »
Need the Justice democrats to run someone in Ohio 16th Congressional. Terribly gerrymandered, no Democratic candidate. Can be done, I think.

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AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #258 on: May 16, 2017, 05:44:32 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "How the Democrats Are Trying to Beat Back Trump", and it provides an overview of the landscape of the "left".

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2017-democratic-power-centers/
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Csnavywx

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #259 on: May 16, 2017, 06:37:22 PM »
How corporate democrats took over the 2016 DNC, and detail on laundering Clinton campaign money through the states.

https://thefloridasqueeze.com/2017/05/01/dnc-lawsuit-youre-morons-to-believe-us-part-1-of-3/

https://thefloridasqueeze.com/2017/05/04/dnc-lawsuit-dnc-wont-answer-courts-basic-question-about-state-primary-deals-part-2-of-3/

part 3 coming soon.

more detail at

http://archive.is/bP6LZ

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/clinton-fundraising-leaves-little-for-state-parties-222670

This is how the money works. We got to crowdsource to beat it.

sidd

100% agree. Don't try changing the corrupt system. Leapfrog it and leave them in the dust. The entire rotten structure will collapse on itself once it cannot provide the "influence for money" service it currently provides.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #260 on: May 16, 2017, 09:56:16 PM »
Arnade has insights on how the corporate democrats still don't understand their defeat. Graphs, distributions and everything.

"Frustrated with broken promises, they gave up on the knowable and went with the unknowable. They chose Trump, because he comes with a very high distribution. A high volatility. (He also signals in ugly ways, that he might just move them, and only them and their friends, higher with his stated policies).
 
As any trader will tell you, if you are stuck lower, you want volatility, uncertainty. No matter how it comes. Put another way. Your downside is flat, your upside isn’t. Break the system.
 
The elites loathe volatility. Because, the upside is limited, but the downside isn’t. In option language, they are in the money."

Read all about it. The corporate Democrats are in the money. They will change nothing. They hate volatility.
And they have the same interests as Corporate Republicans, whom we need another thread for.

"A Harvard professor of sociology is more similar (despite different politics) to a Wall Street trader, than either is to a truck driver in Appleton, Wisconsin, or a waitress in Selma, or a construction worker in Detroit."

https://medium.com/@Chris_arnade/trump-politics-and-option-pricing-or-why-trump-voters-are-not-idiots-1e364a4ed940#.qyjg30wa8

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/05/the-view-from-the-back-row

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #261 on: May 16, 2017, 10:54:41 PM »
Here's Jimmy Dore interviewing that Jaffe guy who is going to try and take on Pelosi:

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #262 on: May 17, 2017, 05:37:25 AM »
Krasner wins Philly DA democratic primary

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/city/Krasner-holds-early-lead-in-Democratic-primary-for-DA-in-Philly.html

needed a million an a half from Soros.  But against death penalty, represented Black Lives Matter and Occupy.

He is likely to win DA position, Philly is democratic. Then we watch what he does.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #263 on: May 17, 2017, 06:03:24 AM »
Thanx for the link to the Jaffe interview. I note he said that many contributions were coming from out of state, and that seemd to indicate many people all over the country want Pelosi out. Excellent.

Now we need DiFi challenger.

sidd

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #264 on: May 17, 2017, 04:24:03 PM »
Arnade has insights on how the corporate democrats still don't understand their defeat. Graphs, distributions and everything.

"Frustrated with broken promises, they gave up on the knowable and went with the unknowable. They chose Trump, because he comes with a very high distribution. A high volatility. (He also signals in ugly ways, that he might just move them, and only them and their friends, higher with his stated policies).
 
As any trader will tell you, if you are stuck lower, you want volatility, uncertainty. No matter how it comes. Put another way. Your downside is flat, your upside isn’t. Break the system.
 
The elites loathe volatility. Because, the upside is limited, but the downside isn’t. In option language, they are in the money."

Here is a different view, which I think is more plausible:
Quote
FiveThirtyEight reported last May that “the median household income of a Trump voter so far in the primaries is about $72,000,” or roughly 130 percent of the national median.
Trump’s real base, the actual backbone of fascism, isn’t poor and working-class voters, but middle-class and affluent whites. Often self-employed, possessed of a retirement account and a home as a nest egg, this is the stratum taken in by Horatio Alger stories. They can envision playing the market well enough to become the next Trump. They haven’t won “big-league,” but they’ve won enough to be invested in the hierarchy they aspire to climb. If only America were made great again, they could become the haute 
bourgeoisie—the storied “1 percent.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/trumpism-its-coming-from-the-suburbs/


AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #265 on: May 17, 2017, 04:38:41 PM »
Thanx for the link to the Jaffe interview. I note he said that many contributions were coming from out of state, and that seemd to indicate many people all over the country want Pelosi out. Excellent.

Pelosi wants to retire, but she is remaining in office in order to help reduce the damage that Trump is going to do to the nation.
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #266 on: May 17, 2017, 05:09:26 PM »
I have difficulties believing that, ASLR, based on my limited perspective from Europe. Maybe you have a quote, but it sounds like that's your interpretation. My interpretation is that's she's interested in two things: Keeping progressives in the Democratic Party out of power, raking in more money by doing the donor's bidding.

You know she's against single payer, right? That's a losing strategy. People are no longer buying into the corporatist propaganda and that makes Pelosi a liability that is adding even more damage to what Trump is doing (in fact, Corporate Democrats like Pelosi are one of the reasons the US now has Trump as president).

Jimmy Dore just posted a really good video, showing a right-wing ideologue explaining how Obamacare was actually a Republican idea, and how single-payer healthcare is now inevitable. From a strategic point of view, I find that what Jimmy Dore says really makes a lot of sense as an argument. I hope people can set aside their dislike of him because of other issues (like Russiagate and the Hillary/Obama/Corporate Democrat bashing) and actually listen to the content of what he's saying.

In fact I'm going to watch it a second time now (even though I should work), because it's one of the best videos I've seen of him lately. Edit: the first part will probably turn some of you off, so watch from minute 9:55 onwards.

Ex Bush Official Acknowledges Medicare For All Is Inevitable:
! No longer available
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 05:26:44 PM by Neven »
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Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #267 on: May 17, 2017, 05:52:51 PM »
Jimmy Dore just posted a really good video, showing a right-wing ideologue explaining how Obamacare was actually a Republican idea, and how single-payer healthcare is now inevitable.
I have explained Obamacare in one of these threads with references to wikipedia etc. To get anything done Obama had to hijack "Romneycare", which actually was a Democrats idea first vetoed by Republican Mass. governor Romney. This was one of the great achievements of the Obama administration, but just the first step. Now that people have learned to like it, something better can one day be implemented. The Republican/Koch Tea Party enmity to 1st-world healthcare principles (understood since Bismarck, 19th century) is now dead in the water. Thanks to Obama. Haha, now it even seems possible that Hillary's work on healthcare 20y ago wasn't in vain...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 06:02:56 PM by Martin Gisser »

AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #268 on: May 17, 2017, 06:27:41 PM »
I have difficulties believing that, ASLR, based on my limited perspective from Europe. Maybe you have a quote, but it sounds like that's your interpretation. My interpretation is that's she's interested in two things: Keeping progressives in the Democratic Party out of power, raking in more money by doing the donor's bidding.

The linked article is entitled: "Nancy Pelosi: I would have retired ‘if Hillary had won’".  If you want to get rid of Pelosi, you might consider resisting Trump a little harder.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/03/10/nancy-pelosi-i-would-have-retired-if-hillary-had-won/

Extract: "House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Friday that she would have retired if former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had defeated President Donald Trump in the November election.

According to CNN, Pelosi told reporters after her interview Friday at The Monitor Breakfast — hosted by The Christian Science Monitor — that “if Hillary had won, I was ready to go home.”"
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #269 on: May 17, 2017, 06:31:03 PM »
Jimmy Dore just posted a really good video, showing a right-wing ideologue explaining how Obamacare was actually a Republican idea, and how single-payer healthcare is now inevitable.
I have explained Obamacare in one of these threads with references to wikipedia etc. To get anything done Obama had to hijack "Romneycare", which actually was a Democrats idea first vetoed by Republican Mass. governor Romney. This was one of the great achievements of the Obama administration, but just the first step. Now that people have learned to like it, something better can one day be implemented. The Republican/Koch Tea Party enmity to 1st-world healthcare principles (understood since Bismarck, 19th century) is now dead in the water. Thanks to Obama. Haha, now it even seems possible that Hillary's work on healthcare 20y ago wasn't in vain...

Sure, Martin, but what do you think about Dore's argument in the second part of the video that the Trump/GOP fiasco is offering an opportunity to the Democratic Party (if taken over by progressives) that wouldn't have been there if Clinton had been elected president? I find it convincing, and inspiring even.
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #270 on: May 17, 2017, 06:38:09 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Nancy Pelosi: I would have retired ‘if Hillary had won’".  If you want to get rid of Pelosi, you might consider resisting Trump a little harder.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/03/10/nancy-pelosi-i-would-have-retired-if-hillary-had-won/

Extract: "House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Friday that she would have retired if former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had defeated President Donald Trump in the November election.

According to CNN, Pelosi told reporters after her interview Friday at The Monitor Breakfast — hosted by The Christian Science Monitor — that “if Hillary had won, I was ready to go home.”"

Okay, so she has actually said it. That's pretty amazing. It's like a goal keeper, who, after making so many mistakes that his team got relegated, says that he would have retired had they become champions. It seems Trump isn't the only stupid one.

Like I said, she's 1) a liability, the exact reason why voters don't trust Democrats, because they sell out to big donors, with that plastic face of hers and the hollow rhetoric, and 2) someone who fails so bad shouldn't be in that position any longer. The only reason Pelosi is where she is, is that she raises so much money (that other Corporate Democrat Dean Howard literally said it).

Would you replace her with a more progressive person if you could?

Quote
The linked article is entitled: "Nancy Pelosi: I would have retired ‘if Hillary had won’".  If you want to get rid of Pelosi, you might consider resisting Trump a little harder.

If I were American, I would want to be rid of both her and Trump, of both evils that engender each other. Don't tell me this is an either/or choice. That's just gaslighting. Get rid of both, or keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
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Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #271 on: May 17, 2017, 07:26:50 PM »
Sure, Martin, but what do you think about Dore's argument in the second part of the video that the Trump/GOP fiasco is offering an opportunity to the Democratic Party (if taken over by progressives) that wouldn't have been there if Clinton had been elected president? I find it convincing, and inspiring even.
I won't look at the video. But yes, meanwhile I also think that Trump is a brilliant champion of the progressive cause. Hillary would have never been able (even willing?) to show how brain dead, corrupted and sociopathic the GOP has become.

Buddy

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #272 on: May 18, 2017, 01:19:56 PM »
If history and human psychology offer any lessons (Hint:  They do).....the Democrat's will "overplay their hand" in coming years.  Which is a shame, really.

They have a PERFECT chance to become "Fiscal Progressives"....and they may blow it.

First.....you ask, what the hell is a "fiscal progressive?"  Here is what THIS fiscal progressive would believes in:

1)  Moving away from fossil fuels QUICKLY and into renewable energy....because the longer we wait, the MORE EXPENSIVE that move will be.  Who knew that moving to renewable energy IS FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE.....and staying with fossil fuels is FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE.  It means promoting a "fee and dividend" policy that provides a disincentive for using fossil fuel.  It may mean keeping SOME renewable incentives in place...but NOT for a LONG PERIOD.  The renewable's should be able to stand on their own two feet within 3 years or so WITHOUT incentives.....especially if there is a fee on the use of fossil fuels.

2) Election reform:  Every person running for a US senate seat or US House of Representative seat has to show their FULL tax return for the last 10 years OR from the time they are 25....whichever shows the most returns.  And they must provide those BEFORE THEIR NAME IS PLACED ON THE PRIMARY BALLOT.  The same applies to the president and vice president....and ALL CABINET AND US SPREME COURT NOMINEES WITHIN 2 WEEKS OF THEIR NOMINATION.  Senate hearings on cabinet members and Supreme Court nominees have to have their tax returns public for AT LEAST 1 week BEFORE the senate meets to question the nominee.[/b]

3)  An eventual move to universal health care.  Yes....that is FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE.  The US has....by far....the MOST EXPENSIVE healthcare system in the world.....and it doesn't provide very good care to boot. 

4) An eventual move to "cap" the pay of the highest earning person in a company by a "maximum multiple" of the lowest earning paid employee in the company (this becomes more complicated than it sounds at first blush...and I won't go into this in more detail here....but you get the "jest" of it).   You're NOT telling companies how much they can pay their highest earner....you ARE telling them that it can't be more than X TIMES what the lowest earner makes..

What #4 above does.....is that provides incentives FOR EVERYONE IN THE COMPANY:

a)  Provides incentives for PEOPLE TO SPEAK UP....instead of sitting on their hands.
b)  Provides incentives for lower and middle pay rank and file....to work hard.
c)  Provides more incentive for the "C suite guys" to listen to their rank and file workers.
d)  The better a company does....the more they can pay their workers....INCLUDING THE LOWER AND MIDDLE PAY WORKERS.  The better the company does....the more the lowest paid workers make....and the more the lower paid workers make.....the more the CEO can pay himself.
e)  It puts everyone in the "same boat".....rowing the same direction.
f)  BTW....I am ANTI UNION....but I understand that UNTIL THERE ARE SOME SAFEGUARDS....they have to be "kept around."  Long term....if companies do the "right thing" there is no reason for unions.  But there still have to be some PARAMETERS that employers have to stay within.  And once those parameters are removed.....greedy companies go right back to mistreating employees.

5)  It means including ALL PEOPLE.....whether gay, straight, black, white, trans, etc.  And a gay marriage is treated the same as a "straight" marriage.

OK.....there is a lot more....but I won't go into it now.  But I did want to lay out some things for you folks to THINK ABOUT.  By the way....I won't be answering any questions on this thread.....there are other issues right now that require more attention.  Again...I wanted to "throw out some ideas" for you folks to think about.

One other thing:  The thought of putting a "cap" on wealth?  BAD IDEA...for many reasons.  Unworkable...."what is wealth"......"thin markets in many things"....etc....etc....etc.  BUT....putting an annual cap on THE MULTIPLE THAT SOMEONE CAN EARN COMPARED TO THE LOWEST EARNER (or lowest 10% of earners...you get the idea).....THAT....is actually WORKABLE....and technically doable.   You are now just supplying the "sidelines" that the company needs to stay within (subject to penalty of course).

I encourage you folks to think about the term "FISCAL PROGRESSIVE".....and what it actually means in application.  And don't "dirty it" with what people have NORMALLY considered a "conservative" to be.....or a "liberal" to be.

OK....that's IT for me on this thread.  But now many you have some more meat to chew on....

Just because you may be a Democrat....doesn't mean you can't be fiscally responsible.

   
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #273 on: May 18, 2017, 01:32:14 PM »
Buddy
You've gone out of your way to tell all that you are an INDEPENDENT - NOT - a DEMOCRAT.
Go work on the Independent's Party strategy.
Thanks
Terry

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #274 on: May 18, 2017, 01:50:05 PM »
Buddy, this thread is about how you get rid of those Democrats who are against all the things you describe, when it's not in the interest of their donors.
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ivica

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #275 on: May 18, 2017, 10:04:07 PM »
The Intercept_ has article about Paula Jean Swearengin (already mentioned in this thread) , by Zaid Jilani, 2017-05-18:
Activist Accepts Sen. Joe Manchin’s Challenge to “Find Somebody Who Can Beat Me“

Quote
She is one of the first candidates endorsed by Brand New Congress, a new effort spawned by former Bernie Sanders staffers who want to recruit both Democrats and Republicans who have never held office before to run for Congress.

SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #276 on: May 18, 2017, 10:58:38 PM »


. . .
You know she's against single payer, right? That's a losing strategy. People are no longer buying into the corporatist propaganda and that makes Pelosi a liability that is adding even more damage to what Trump is doing (in fact, Corporate Democrats like Pelosi are one of the reasons the US now has Trump as president).


No, Pelosi is clearly in favor of single-payer health care.  She just doesn't believe that such legislation can currently be enacted, and she's right:

https://www.districtsentinel.com/pelosi-refuses-back-single-payer-despite-gop-deathmongering-suddenly-taking-center-stage/

"“I was carrying single payer signs probably around before you born, so I understand that aspiration,” the House Minority Leader told Vice’s Evan McMorris-Santoro. She then claimed that “the comfort level with a broader base of the American people is not there yet,” with single payer.
“So I say to people: if you want it, do it in your states. States are laboratories,” the Dem leader added. “States are a good place to start,” she also said."

There's not a snowball's chance in hell that any Republicans in the House or Senate would vote for single-payer, nor that Trump/Pence would do anything other than veto it.  Until the party control of the government changes, about the best we can hope for is for the Affordable Care Act to be preserved.

Many here keep saying that corporate democrats are the reason the D's did badly last time around, but I don't see actual evidence of this.  Hillary lost mostly because she's been relentlessly smeared for decades, and because she's an unappealing candidate to boot.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #277 on: May 19, 2017, 06:47:53 AM »
The Swearingen interview at the intercept mentions another corporate democrat, Jim Justice ,governor of West Virginia. Unfortunately he was elected in 2016, so we can't diselect him forawhile. Billionaire.Coal and mining. Keep him in mind in 2020.

sidd

SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #278 on: May 19, 2017, 05:25:26 PM »
The Swearingen interview at the intercept mentions another corporate democrat, Jim Justice ,governor of West Virginia. Unfortunately he was elected in 2016, so we can't diselect him forawhile. Billionaire.Coal and mining. Keep him in mind in 2020.

sidd

Be careful what you wish for.  In WVa, any Democratic nominee for any office who is against coal will reliably lose to the Republican candidate who supports coal.  It does make a difference, because a Democratic Governor, for example, may be in a position to name a Democratic Representative or Senator, and party control matters for advancing health care, the environment, worker protections, progressive taxation, and much more.

We don't need WVa reps to oppose coal; coal will continue dying regardless.   Let them give lip service to coal, as long as they support wind and solar and environmental protections.

Manchin is not well-liked by progressives, but he's about as progressive a Democrat as can be elected in WVa.  The only realistic alternative is a far more regressive Republican.

Strategically, trying to replace Manchin with a more progressive Democratic nominee is profoundly counter-productive.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #279 on: May 19, 2017, 05:43:14 PM »
Many here keep saying that corporate democrats are the reason the D's did badly last time around, but I don't see actual evidence of this.  Hillary lost mostly because she's been relentlessly smeared for decades, and because she's an unappealing candidate to boot.
You are slightly contradicting yourself here. The Democrats put up an unappealing candidate that had been tainted (rightfully or not, that's irrelevant) and managed to lose to the most despicable presidential candidate of all times. That sounds like a big fail to me. And that's even without taking the content of the Podesta mails into account that showed the bias of the DNC and the mainstream media to effectively shut Bernie Sanders out.

As for Pelosi:

Quote
No, Pelosi is clearly in favor of single-payer health care.  She just doesn't believe that such legislation can currently be enacted, and she's right:
But is she right? Recently I saw polls that show that a majority of the population wants single payer health care, I believe even among Republican voters who make less than 30K per year. people are getting more informed and now that the GOP is in power (and screwing up badly wrt health reform), the propaganda is starting to wear off. Now would be the perfect moment to actually really stand up for your 'values' (a word Corporate Democrats love to use) and get those disappointed voters to come back to the Democratic Party, go out and vote, etc.

I don't know if you are one of those commenters here who refuse to watch Jimmy Dore videos out of principle, but here he and his co-commentators really explain it well why Pelosi is so wrong on this and why she most probably does so (donor money), aside from the fact that the argument that single payer health care isn't politically feasible is becoming more and more passé (click 'no longer available' if the video window doesn't show up):

Bernie Schools Pelosi On How To Talk Healthcare

! No longer available

« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 07:09:34 PM by Neven »
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #280 on: May 19, 2017, 07:04:00 PM »
And here's another Jimmy Dore video (featuring Pelosi towards the end) that shows what the Democrats are doing wrong and why they seem so bent - unconsciously - on losing:

Democratic Website Pathetically Devoid Of Substance

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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #281 on: May 19, 2017, 08:33:48 PM »
Two excellent links.


Those that won't watch Dore will simply cut themselves off from cutting edge progressive/liberal thoughts on where we are & how we can get to where we need to be.


Once Russiagate is allowed to swallow every anti Trump narrative we are lost in a myopic vision where everything hinges on Evil Putin changing the outcome of the voting patterns of 3M American voters. It's difficult to write the essence of their claims without smiling. Do you believe that the US has more advanced software than the Russians? Do you believe that the American government could hack the election and cause the Russian populace to vote Putin out of power? - Then why do you believe that Putin could do so in America???


Corporate Democrats actually could, and have, caused Americans to vote for anyone who isn't a Corporate Democrat.
Corporate Democrats actually could, and have, caused Americans to vote against their own best interests, just as long as they won't have to see Hillary gloating in victory.
Bubba doesn't love Putin, Bubba hates Hillary - and the Corporate Democrats that promised so much and delivered so little.
Time after Time after Time.


Single payer healthcare - we lost it because Bill was tied up in the folds of Monica's stained dress.


The Bushes are no longer electable, but we can and will get their minions back into positions of power - Hello Mueller, can Rove and Rumsfeld be far behind?



We survived Bush the Younger - well except for the banking sector, but Obama saved them!


We'll survive Trump the stupid - well except for the EPA, and the Paris Accord.




Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #282 on: May 19, 2017, 11:23:56 PM »
I watched two other good Jimmy Dore videos today. One was from last week, has that horrible, horrible Pelosi (Steve, how can you defend someone who is failing so badly?) at the start, followed by voters who talk about what they think of the Democratic Party:

Roomful Of Regular People Proclaim Disgust At Democrats
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And here's one from today about how Democratic websites are only about Trump-Russia-Trump-Russia-Trump and how that isn't going to get anybody back to vote for the Democratic Party again:
 
Democratic Website Pathetically Devoid Of Substance
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Co-commentator Ron Placone nails it (and that's what I and others have been saying in the Russiagate thread many times now):

Quote
It's interesting how Democrats would rather try to prove treason and be like non-stop about it for how many months now, instead of actually putting together a platform that would give them a huge victory in 2018.
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #283 on: May 19, 2017, 11:29:13 PM »
And here's a rather long one, not necessarily about Corporate Democrats, although a lot of stuff happened under the Obama administration (which is why he is a war criminal IMO). It's about Chelsea Manning and why she was put into prison for letting the American people know what is being done in their name. I actually cried over some of that stuff, especially that video where they shoot/slaughter unsuspecting reporters, kids and paramedics from a chopper. That really broke something in me.

Chelsea Manning Free! Here Are Crimes She Revealed
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Please, my American friends, don't just try and get rid of Trump. Get rid of all of them, on all sides. Please, the whole world begs you.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #284 on: May 20, 2017, 12:34:32 AM »
. . .
As for Pelosi:

Quote
No, Pelosi is clearly in favor of single-payer health care.  She just doesn't believe that such legislation can currently be enacted, and she's right:
But is she right? Recently I saw polls that show that a majority of the population wants single payer health care, I believe even among Republican voters who make less than 30K per year. people are getting more informed and now that the GOP is in power (and screwing up badly wrt health reform), the propaganda is starting to wear off. Now would be the perfect moment to actually really stand up for your 'values' (a word Corporate Democrats love to use) and get those disappointed voters to come back to the Democratic Party, go out and vote, etc.

I don't know if you are one of those commenters here who refuse to watch Jimmy Dore videos out of principle, but here he and his co-commentators really explain it well why Pelosi is so wrong on this and why she most probably does so (donor money), aside from the fact that the argument that single payer health care isn't politically feasible is becoming more and more passé (click 'no longer available' if the video window doesn't show up):

Bernie Schools Pelosi On How To Talk Healthcare

! No longer available

Jimmy Dore, once again, shows himself to be little more than a mirror image of Rush
Limbaugh.  Half-truths, distortions, and utter failure to understand or communicate
the nuances of what he talks about.

No, ObamaCare is not wildly popular. Maybe half of Americans like it, the other half
don't.  Those who don't like it fall into two broad groups, one feels it an
intolerable intrusion of government in healthcare, the other feels it doesn't go far
enough to cover everyone and cover enough benefits fully. Some who object fall into
both groups.  All the sides have reasonable views, because it was crafted to be able
to pass, not to ultimately fix what's broken. An ultimate fix would have been
impossible to enact.

Sure, a majority of Americans have a favorable impression of single-payer.  But
that's because the insurance and healthcare industries haven't bothered to switch on
their public relations machines to torpedo the idea.  They would, and their
propaganda would have enough basis in half-truths to shift public opinion away from
single-payer.

Even if a majority of Americans retained a favorable view, that doesn't mean it could
pass.  A majority of voters selected Clnton over Trump.  A majority of voters
selected Democrats for the House of Representatives.  But the Republican "losers"
still won.  The very same factors that caused this mis-representation of voters'
wishes would play into the hands of those who will never support single-payer.
If you want a reform with a slightly better chance of enactment, drop single-payer
and push for an all-payer system.  The critical difference isn't the kind of
healthcare experience patients can expect, nor the economic benefits (these are the
same), the critical difference is that all-payer reforms allow the health insurance
industry to not go out of business immediately, en mass.
See:

The Many Different Prices Paid To Providers And The Flawed Theory Of Cost Shifting:
Is It Time For A More Rational All-Payer System?
http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/30/11/2125.full.pdf+html

His mockery of Pelosi struggling to ad lib an answer a very complicated question and
not having a well-scripted answer is just stupid.  It's puerile.  I don't know how
anyone can stand to watch this bloviator with his absurd cheering section in his
studio. 

He utterly misrepresents Pelosi's record.  She was among the very most effective
Speakers of the House in history.  She successfully championed a very wide range of
quite progressive policies.  He just slams her over his own pet peeves, denying the
fuller reality and nuance of her record.

mati

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #285 on: May 20, 2017, 12:45:47 AM »
hmm
so this is no longer an ice state and global warming blog.
sorry, but i think i'll take a holiday from the histeronics.
mati
and so it goes

SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #286 on: May 20, 2017, 01:03:19 AM »
I watched two other good Jimmy Dore videos today. One was from last week, has that horrible, horrible Pelosi (Steve, how can you defend someone who is failing so badly?) at the start, followed by voters who talk about what they think of the Democratic Party:


More stupid commentary about mere sound bites?  That's not intelligent discourse, that's bloviating.

Pelosi has a very strong record as a progressive.  Here's a compendium of how she voted on specific legislation.  Legislation is what matters in the record of a politician, not sound bites.  Look at this list, and tell me where she voted wrong:

http://www.ontheissues.org/CA/Nancy_Pelosi.htm

Some of these, I don't know enough to have an opinion.  On the vast majority where I know something about the legislation in question, I think she voted exactly right.  That's the mark of a solid leader for me.  The sheer statistics of how much legislation she guided through the House while Speaker indicates that she's a far more effective leader than almost any of her peers.  Why replace a highly effective progressive with a question mark?

Forget the focus on sound bites.  That's worthless stuff that Jimmy Dore is peddling.  Rush does it better, which is a damning fact.

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #287 on: May 20, 2017, 03:02:53 AM »
That was one powerful show. Anyone that will not watch Jimmy Dore needs to grab your popcorn. a barf bag, then click the link.
One of the comments was that Chelsea, Snowdon and Assange deserve a place on Mount Rushmore. I'd rather give the sacred mountain back to it's rightful owners and give Chelsea, Snowdon, Assange and whomever they choose 4 seats on the Supreme Court. Enough to force the country back to some semblance of what it had always claimed to be.
I remember the helicopter footage he refers to. I wasn't horrified because I saw it as BAU. That's a terribly low expectation to have of any country, let alone a country I'd lived in for over 40 years.


Is Dore the next Limbaugh?
I don't know, never watched, or is it heard, Limbaugh. People tell me he's an ass. Jimmy's a little rough around the edges, but he's telling people what they don't want to hear. My understanding is that the Rush's forte was preaching to the choir, an unruly, unwashed choir maybe, but a choir none the less.
I remember a young Pelosi fighting the good fight, but the years, and the money took their toll. A firebrand in the 60's can burn out in the 90's and be a smoldering wreck as the decades pass. I don't think she realizes what she's become, at least I hope so for her sake.


Time for a new generation to grab the reigns, and this from someone born in '46. We had our shot at the brass ring, Pelosi did much more than most - but now she's a weight that does nothing but hold a new generation of liberals back.
Screw "progressives", our stance is a liberal stance. Don't be ashamed of the word. Liberals gave us the 40 hour week, liberals gave us Social Security, liberals gave us Medicare, liberals gave us Civil Rights. Liberals, running on liberal ideals can win the next election. Progressives, running on corporate funding will lose.


Terry

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #288 on: May 20, 2017, 03:07:25 AM »
hmm
so this is no longer an ice state and global warming blog.
sorry, but i think i'll take a holiday from the histeronics.
mati


Mati
if it bothers you down here, by all means stay above the line. There's plenty to learn, plenty to comment on.
I'd personally prefer it if all political comments were segregated, but that's just me.
Terry

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #289 on: May 20, 2017, 07:00:01 PM »
The name of Jimmy Carter has popped up here and there. In this video he explains what caused Trump's rise to power and the young lad explains it again after that (click 'no longer available' if the video doesn't show up)):

Jimmy Carter Brilliantly Explains How The Establishment Gave Us Trump
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #290 on: May 23, 2017, 09:04:08 PM »
I liked

https://newleftreview.org/II/104/wolfgang-streeck-the-return-of-the-repressed

"Only with the collapse of post-democracy, and the end of mass patience with the ‘narratives’ of a globalization that in the us had benefited in its final years only the top 1 per cent, did the guardians of the dominant ‘discourse’ call for obligatory fact-checking. Only then did they regret the deficits experienced by those caught in the pincer grip of the global attention economy on the one hand and the cost-cutting in the education and training sector on the other. It is at that point that they began to call for ‘eligibility tests’ of various kinds as a prerequisite for citizens being allowed to exercise their right to vote. [12] The fact that the Great Unwashed, who for so long had helped promote the progress of capitalism by passing their time with the Twitter feeds of Kim Kardashian, Selena Gomez, Justin Bieber e tutti quanti, had now returned to the voting booth, was registered as a sign of an ominous regression."

"The rediscovery of democracy as a political corrective, however, benefits exclusively new kinds of parties and movements whose appearance throws national political systems into disarray. The mainstream parties and their public-relations experts, which have long been closely associated with each other and with the machinery of the state, regard the new parties as a lethal threat to ‘democracy’ and fight them as such. The concept employed in this struggle, and rapidly included in the post-factual vocabulary, is that of ‘populism’, denoting left-wing and right-wing tendencies and organizations alike that reject the tina logic of ‘responsible’ politics in a world of neoliberal globalization. "

Read the whole thing. I agree with Streek on the data, and on many points in the logic, but perhaps not entirely with his eventual diagnosis.

sidd

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #291 on: May 24, 2017, 02:17:36 AM »
Thanks sidd!!


That we are now in a period of 'interregnum" seems evident. How, when, or in what manner we proceed from here is by definition both unknown and unknowable.


His history is accurate as I see/recall it, and if there was an attempt at prognostication I missed it.


We live in exciting times my friend. I hope we can survive them.


Terry
P.S.
Other than trying to steer away from war, towards a sane response to AGW, and a workable solution to the devastation that robotics is bringing to the exponentially growing population, we have few problems that can't be handled. ???


sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #292 on: May 24, 2017, 03:48:10 AM »
Gramsci's framework invoking interregnum is not essential, i think to Streeck analysis, but the diagnosis i might disagree with is the final sentence

"Today this is because all those who see themselves as exposed to the uncertainties of international markets, control of which has been promised but never delivered, will prefer a bird in their hand to two in the bush: they will choose the reality of national democracy, imperfect as it may be, over the fantasy of a democratic global society. "

I have to think on that. Another thing i think i might quibble over is his statement

"Beginning in the 1980s this was accompanied by a meltdown of trade-union organization, together with a dramatic decline in strike activity worldwide ... "

It was coming earlier. But that is a quibble, i shall follow Streeck in future.

As for exciting times and surviving them, I do not plan to. For one thing, all times are exciting to those who live in them. For another, living longer appeals less and less as I age, as I see more and more of the follies of our mad, magnificent human species.

sidd
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 03:54:08 AM by sidd »

gerontocrat

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #293 on: May 24, 2017, 03:01:06 PM »
This thread is about corporate democrats. But to me there is no fundamental difference between Corporate Democrats and Corporate Republicans. Yes, they have different agendas, but the route to power is the same. Eisenhower, around 60 years ago, warned about the rising power and influence of the military industrial complex. That didn't go well. Now we have a wider group of the very rich controlling the political agenda. Democracy in the USA is now bought and sold. Until "Citizens United" is repealed and limits to political funding are strengthened I don't see how anything can change. SuperPACs rule, OK.

The chance of another Trump rising is therefore quite high - and next time you might get one with brains. Mind you, the UK ain't much better. The one with the biggest political funding usually wins.





"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

sidd

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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #295 on: May 25, 2017, 08:54:51 PM »
There are a couple of Jimmy Dore Show videos I could post (, for instance, who I'm sure did wonderful things in the past, but now is a corporate stooge), but here's one on the California Democratic Party where a new (allegedly Corporate Democrat) chairman was 'voted' into office, despite progressives electing a majority of delegates a couple of months ago.

CA Dem Party Tells Progressives “Shut The F*ck Up"

! No longer available

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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #296 on: May 25, 2017, 09:46:39 PM »
Here's some more on the California stuff from The Real News Network:

Nina Turner on Bitter Fight in California Democratic Party
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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #297 on: May 25, 2017, 10:13:57 PM »
There are a couple of Jimmy Dore Show videos I could post (, for instance, who I'm sure did wonderful things in the past, but now is a corporate stooge), but here's one on the California Democratic Party where a new (allegedly Corporate Democrat) chairman was 'voted' into office, despite progressives electing a majority of delegates a couple of months ago.

CA Dem Party Tells Progressives “Shut The F*ck Up"

! No longer available
The California fiasco was particularly troubling.
After progressives win the vote, they're told that there were Super Delegates, and that their open vote in fact only counted for 1/3 of the delegates. A lobbyist is then installed as party head, to the horror of the progressive wing.


With corporate funding flowing into the till, the party leaders seems to believe that they can get along without progressive contributions, and this is undoubtedly so. The problems occur at election time because virtually all Democrats, except possibly the leadership, see themselves as progressives.


Come election day the votes may simply not be there.


It's impossible for most progressives to vote for a Republican, no matter how badly his own party has abused him, but, staying home in droves is not only possible, it's increasingly likely.


As it stands I believe that those holding executive positions in the party want to assure their salary & pension. The easiest & surest way to attain this goal is to line the party coffers with corporate gold. This can also assure a rich life after politics when rewards for loyal service are gratefully handed out.


The only losers here are the citizens that always benefit from progressive policies, and any candidate or voter that actually cares about the issues.
The problem for the present leadership is that if they can't win elections, no one will pay them decent bribes, and they won't win many elections unless they play nice with their base.


The only way out may be to steal a page from the Tea-Party playbook and primary out everyone who won't play by our rules. We might lose an election cycle, but we might not. The survivors of such a purge might actually see the writing on the wall, and if not there is another primary ahead.


This may not work, but continuing on as we have been can not work.


Terry

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #298 on: May 25, 2017, 11:05:11 PM »
Meanwhile, on the other side (Secular Talk video):

Bernie Delegate Wins New York Election In Trump District!

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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #299 on: June 21, 2017, 01:10:02 PM »
The most expensive bi-election ever held has been decided - and Corporate Democrats lost another one.


In a Georgia district that Trump won by 1%, a well educated slice of the South, a Corporate Democrat with unbelievably deep pockets lost by 3.8%.
Jon Ossoff's campaign mimicked Clinton's in a number of ways, lots and lots and lots of money. He ran against Trump, not for anything in particular, and had a very good team on the ground. He was far ahead with the write in votes, up in the polls - but he lost the election.


I'm sure local TV executives appreciated the free spending campaign more than many of the locals who put up with a constant barrage of push polls and robo-calls. This race wouldn't be news if the CD's hadn't decided to make it a referendum on Trumps first months in office - and then thrown >$25M at it.


Perhaps if a Democratic candidate explained to voters how electing him would make their lives better. Perhaps if he could point to a positive progressive platform that would benefit local businesses, labor, and infrastructure. Perhaps if he'd gotten his message from Bernie, rather than from Nancy?


This bi-election means very little, but after loss, after loss, after loss, the Democrats and their financial backers must sooner or later realize that it's not bad Russians, not bad polling, not even bad media that are causing them to lose elections that they think they should have won. The problem is positioning themselves as "Republican Lite", all the tax breaks for the wealthy, all the increases in military spending, all the proxy wars, drone assassinations and wars for oil. And all without the Bush's stench, Trump's idiocy, or Reagan's vapid inanity.


They don't run on their platform because if they did people might notice how little it differs from the platform that the evil Republican's espouse.


Terry