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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #650 on: November 05, 2017, 06:36:23 AM »
Gentlemen
Rigged and Fixed are not cognates!
If Hillary could fix elections she would be Madam President.
What Brazile accuses the DNC of is rigging, or "changing the odds" of the primary.


As I understand it judge(s?) have ruled that the DNC has no legal requirement to provide an honest primary for the candidates. If this is so then laws need to be written.


One of the questions I have is why the DNC kept their consultants on payroll between the election cycles. I've come across some of the compensation estimates for the Awan family and they seemed inflated. Were other "consultants" paid at similar rates? Is the "burn rate" for the DNC since Obama's Presidency in line with the "burn rate" of the other party's organization, is it comparable to other years, other off year periods?


Terry

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #651 on: November 05, 2017, 07:09:01 AM »
Neven wrote: "But why is Brazile coming out with this now? Is it just to promote her book sales ... "

Precisely. Look at the timing of events. Brazile was being paid to be DNC chair till april 2017 this year.  News of the book deal shows june 12 2017. Jun-Nov is not such an aggressive schedule these days with a good editing/ghostwriting team. Generate buzz, get the book out before everybody gets theirs out (Shattered is one, What Happened is another that preceded.)

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/book-deals/article/74212-hachette-to-publish-donna-brazile-book-on-2016-election.html

I am actually surprised her book took so long. I suppose she couldnt enter into negotiation for a deal until DNC wasnt paying her, while the other two were going as soon as election night.

Not that Donna likes Hilary, she got called a brain dead buffalo when Hilary blew up and melted down after the Matt Lauer NBC interview in september 2016 when Matt asked her an unscripted question (gasp!) about the email server.

http://victuruslibertas.com/2016/09/temper-temper-killary-goes-on-rampage-for-over-an-hour-throwing-glass-at-staffers-head/

So she may have begun writing it then.

Not that it matters. The traditional Democratic party model is dead. I just spent an afternoon watching college football with democratic donors and local party officials in ohio (ohio state got beat like a rented mule), and the feeling is universal: after last years screwing over of local races, no money goes to DNC at national level. Rather, straight to local candidates, local organization and nuttn for the national party.

Sherrod Brown was the hot topic, he can talk to white working class and he has credentials. He's up for election in 2018 and the talk was to do it all locally, and preserve his senate reelection apparatus afterward for a presidential run in 2020. They are already calling up other out of state (state level) democratic party officials to co-ordinate running national candidates, cutting DNC out of the deal.

sidd

« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 07:15:12 AM by sidd »

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #652 on: November 05, 2017, 07:42:18 AM »
Re: DNC funding

Looks downhill. DNC fires lead fundraiser. I guess the donors and state/local are turning off the tap after realizing where the money wound up.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/02/dnc-fires-its-top-fundraiser-244468

sidd

AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #653 on: November 05, 2017, 09:55:32 AM »
Re: DNC funding

Looks downhill. DNC fires lead fundraiser. I guess the donors and state/local are turning off the tap after realizing where the money wound up.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/02/dnc-fires-its-top-fundraiser-244468

sidd

Do you think that Bernie, or Joe, should step-in and provide any additional funding that the DNC needs so that the DNC can play a more useful role in the 2018 mid-term elections as well as the 2020 general election?
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pileus

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #654 on: November 05, 2017, 02:27:53 PM »
As far as I know, Donna Brazile was vice-chair of the DNC in 2015 when this document was signed (between the Hillary campaign and the DNC).

So she WOULD have known about this document even back then !

Yet even though she knew about this document, during the primaries she forwarded debate questions to Clinton's campaign during the 2016 Democratic primary, and undermined Bernie's campaign in the process.

So why does she come out with this information now that her book is finished and not during the primaries when it really mattered ?

This is not an honest woman, folks.

She's just trying to sell books.  Timing is especially bad with the VA governor election on Tuesday (where, by the way, a progressive group pulled its support of the Dem nominee because of his position on sanctuary cities.  Prime example of how the Left undermines the Dem party, and does the work of the GOP.  In a state like VA you can't run a Left campaign and win at the state level, it's not aligned with the reality of the voting population).  Also comes during a week when Trump is on the ropes with the Mueller indictments.  Again, the Left undermining Dems and doing the work of Fox News and the GOP.  She was also Al Gore's campaign manager in 2000, and we know how that turned out.

The Left needs to form its own party if they find real Dems too moderate, too corporate, or not pure enough.  Sell your message to the public, and run your own candidates without undermining the efforts of the Democratic Party.  Stop being apologists for Russia, and knock it off with the Kremlin propaganda and nutty conspiracy theories.  We already have that with the right wing and GOP.

Donna has been a loyal lifelong Dem and member of the establishment.  She's flawed and is not being helpful to the Dem cause today.  And she's given an opening to the Left to exploit her comments and further undermine the Democratic Party, at a time when the enemy is the GOP, not the Dems.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #655 on: November 05, 2017, 03:49:53 PM »
I agree that the Democratic Party is a right-wing party, and hence not the party of the people. That's what this whole thread is about.
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gerontocrat

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #656 on: November 05, 2017, 04:06:33 PM »
I agree that the Democratic Party is a right-wing party, and hence not the party of the people. That's what this whole thread is about.
Maybe that is what this thread should be about. Perhaps one should audit the actions of politicians against the Constitution and their Oath of Office?

Preamble
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Senatorial Oath of Office;-
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #657 on: November 05, 2017, 07:16:00 PM »
Brazile seems to flip-flop almost as much as Trump:

Title: " Donna Brazile: "I found no evidence" election was rigged"

https://www.axios.com/donna-brazile-i-found-no-evidence-of-election-rigging-2506684849.html

Extract: "Donna Brazile, the former interim chair of the Democratic National Committee, said she "found no evidence, none whatsoever" that the Democratic primaries were rigged in favor of Hillary Clinton, dialing back an earlier statement in a Politico tell-all that the DNC was "rigging the system" for Clinton. Brazile made the comments in an interview on ABC's "This Week.""
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #658 on: November 05, 2017, 08:59:06 PM »
"Do you think that Bernie, or Joe, should step-in and provide any additional funding that the DNC needs so that the DNC can play a more useful role in the 2018 mid-term elections as well as the 2020 general election?"

What should they do ? Not a clue. So rather than what I think they should do, I will say what I think will happen. I don't think Bernie is going to run in 2020. If Biden runs, he will do the same deal with the DNC that Hilary did. But i do not think that DNC can be rescued, they have lost trust at state level, and I am seeing many signs that state level fundraising willl remain in state.

sidd

wili

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #659 on: November 05, 2017, 09:05:27 PM »
Berniecrats Issue Report Criticizing the DNC for Failing to Learn Lessons From 2016

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/berniecrats-issue-report-criticizing-democratic-national-committee-failing-learn-lessons-2016/

Quote
...Since the election, the DNC has not made any structural changes to build bridges to the party’s Berniecrats, such as reforming its superdelegate system. In 2017 races like Virginia’s gubernatorial election, the way party leaders haven’t changed their voter outreach strategy is also offputting, Solomon said, because it’s prioritized white centrists and appears to take non-white voters for granted.

“The DNC’s biggest failure has been to largely disregard the base,” he said. “And we can define that as working-class people across the board, young people, people of color, to instead focus a tremendous amount of political framing, of pitching, and of money to try to shake loose votes from Republicans. We have this empirically going on in the past and in Virginia right now. Steve Phillips had that piece that The Nation [“The Obsession With White Voters Could Cost Democrats the Virginia Governor’s Race”]. That’s one huge thing; the idea that the way to Democratic Party victories is through pulling in some Republican votes. I just think it’s been disproven again and again. That’s number one. Stop doubling down on a failed policy.”...
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #660 on: November 05, 2017, 09:19:57 PM »
"The Left needs to form its own party if they find real Dems too moderate, too corporate, or not pure enough.  Sell your message to the public, and run your own candidates without undermining the efforts of the Democratic Party.  Stop being apologists for Russia, and knock it off with the Kremlin propaganda and nutty conspiracy theories. "

Whereas the left believes that the the Democratic Party can and must be reformed since the party leadership are enslaved to oligarchs and need replaced before the Democratic Party goes the way of the Whigs. If that is not possible, forming another party might be an answer. I am not yet convinced that the Democratic party is irredeemable. Accusing the left of being "apologists for Russia spouting Kremlin propaganda and conspiracy theory" is not going to make them go away.

sidd


Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #661 on: November 05, 2017, 10:34:33 PM »
The Left needs to form its own party if they find real Dems too moderate, too corporate, or not pure enough.  Sell your message to the public, and run your own candidates without undermining the efforts of the Democratic Party.

What if most members of the Democratic Party want the party to change? Is that irrelevant? Whose party is it?

And do you consider yourself a right-winger? Or is it just about defeating the red team, ideas and ethics be damned?

And what sidd says. I would want to wait to see how this plays out as well. The Democratic Party seems to be firmly in the hands of Corporate Democrats and their consultant buddies who are not willing to give up the gravy train, purging Bernie-supporters any way they can and making it impossible for independent candidates to make use of the party infrastructure.

If this can't be changed from within, the only question is what the best timing is to set up a third party. It's incredibly difficult, I believe, as there isn't a two-party system for nothing, but it will still take a lot of dirty tricks, cheating and propaganda to turn back the tide. And then we'll have to wait and see whether enough people have the backbone and critical thinking skills to resist the mainstream media establishment narrative.
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #662 on: November 05, 2017, 10:56:22 PM »
Two articles

1) Robert Reich on the six parties of the USA:

https://theliberalnetwork.com/2017/10/27/robert-reich-six-political-parties/

He suggests possible coalitions between these:

"One possibility is a coalition of anti-establishment Democrats who want to get big money out of politics and who reject crony capitalism, and anti-establishment Republicans who want the same.

The other possible coalition is establishment Democrats who want their taxes cut and establishment Republicans who want the same."

2) Egberto Willies on need for Democratic Party reform from (gasp!) dailykos:

"The reality is that functionally, we have two parties: the Haves and the Have Nots."

"Americans are being played by the Democratic establishment and Republicans alike."

"If the left succeeded, it would diminish the power of the capital class and corporations—and these are the folks that fund both party establishments."

"Progressives must use the Democratic Party as the transport for their payload by engaging at all levels, from precinct chairs to running in primaries. They must infiltrate the guts of the establishment. Many progressives are starting to do just that. Instead of waiting for the party to change, they are fighting their way into governance to prevent the complete capitulation of the party."

"It is time for a leadership change at all levels. The work will be hard, tedious, and with some failures, but it must be done."

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/11/5/1711944/-Progressives-must-change-the-Democratic-Party-from-within-and-without

sidd




AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #663 on: November 06, 2017, 01:11:45 AM »
"One possibility is a coalition of anti-establishment Democrats who want to get big money out of politics and who reject crony capitalism, and anti-establishment Republicans who want the same.

In other words, a coalition of Bernie supporters working together with disillusioned Trump supporters.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #664 on: November 06, 2017, 02:05:14 AM »
"One possibility is a coalition of anti-establishment Democrats who want to get big money out of politics and who reject crony capitalism, and anti-establishment Republicans who want the same.

In other words, a coalition of Bernie supporters working together with disillusioned Trump supporters.

Exactly.  All it will require is for progressives to realize that guns are good, and immigrants and reproductive rights are bad.  Then everything is possible.
/sarc

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #665 on: November 06, 2017, 04:16:19 AM »
I must say that i prefer Egberto Willies propositions. I see no way that the left and tea party can reconcile, except on the single issue of getting money out of politics.

sidd

Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #666 on: November 06, 2017, 04:50:33 AM »
I would want to wait to see how this plays out as well. The Democratic Party seems to be firmly in the hands of Corporate Democrats and their consultant buddies who are not willing to give up the gravy train, purging Bernie-supporters any way they can and making it impossible for independent candidates to make use of the party infrastructure.

Neven, I'm a firm Bernie supporter, but nobody is 'purging' Bernie-supporters in any way.

If we are to "kick out" the "Corporate Democrats" it will go via the ballot box.
Bernie started a Revolution, which brings people together and energized a lot of young people to be engaged in the political process.

I have confidence that in 2018 and certainly 2020, the liberal left will be a much stronger force than they were in 2016 (when they already obtained 45% of the Democratic vote).

I hope that Bernie's Revolution can happen WITHIN the Democratic Party, since you will get all of the traditional, conservative Democrats on board too.

But if that doesn't work, a third party is definitively an opinion. There are a LOT of 'independent' voters out there too. And disgruntled Trump voters.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 04:56:11 AM by Rob Dekker »
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #667 on: November 06, 2017, 05:05:39 AM »

Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #668 on: November 06, 2017, 06:43:13 AM »
Thanks for that article, sidd.

I found at least this paragraph disturbing :

Quote
The at-large members chosen by Perez include Harold Ickes, a lobbyist for a nuclear energy company; Manny Ortiz, a lobbyist for Citigroup; Joanne Dowdell, a lobbyist for News Corporation, the parent company of Fox News; and Jaime Harrison, a former lobbyist for coal companies, big banks, and tobacco companies.

I am willing to cut Tom Perez some slack, but this can't be good.
One more move like that and I will be on your side, at least regarding the DNC.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 07:01:46 AM by Rob Dekker »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #669 on: November 06, 2017, 04:16:55 PM »
"The Left needs to form its own party if they find real Dems too moderate, too corporate, or not pure enough.  Sell your message to the public, and run your own candidates without undermining the efforts of the Democratic Party.  Stop being apologists for Russia, and knock it off with the Kremlin propaganda and nutty conspiracy theories. "

Whereas the left believes that the the Democratic Party can and must be reformed since the party leadership are enslaved to oligarchs and need replaced before the Democratic Party goes the way of the Whigs. If that is not possible, forming another party might be an answer. I am not yet convinced that the Democratic party is irredeemable. Accusing the left of being "apologists for Russia spouting Kremlin propaganda and conspiracy theory" is not going to make them go away.

sidd

sidd,

Thank you for your direct/honest response.  However, to me, whether Bernie runs for president in 2020 is irrelevant to whether he should act like a leader now by channeling money (gathered from his network of supports) into the DNC in order to help not only solve their money problems, but also to make them less susceptible to manipulation by big money.  It is easy to say that 'others' should do the heavy lifting of building and sustaining a political organization, but when one does this it is just another example of 'othering', which the right-wing populists have made so popular now days.

Best regards,
ASLR
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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #670 on: November 06, 2017, 04:39:07 PM »
ASLR
If you were a Bernie donor, would you want him to pass your donation on to the DNC, as it is presently structured?
Terry

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #671 on: November 06, 2017, 04:43:12 PM »
"However, to me, whether Bernie runs for president in 2020 is irrelevant to whether he should act like a leader now by channeling money (gathered from his network of supports) into the DNC ... "

Bernie doesn't have any money any more, the crowdfunding apparatus that got him into the primaries is done, gone, dead. Do you suggest he resurrect it ? And fund the very DNC that screwed him ? I submit that he has better things to, and that an appeal by him to his supporters to rescue an corrupt organization that fought them and reviled them is not likely to meet with much enthusiasm. Derision more likely. He isn't a member of the Democratic party either.

So you got a hard sell there.

I do think the DNC should be entirely crowdfunded, to get the big money out. They need to build their own crowdfund, and have completely transparent accounting/audit. Do i think they will do so ? I doubt it, they have too many thieves addicted to those sweet, sweet lobbyist dollars. I think they have many years of rehabilitation to go thru ere they reform, if at all. I do not think it will happen before 2018, and may not happen before 2020. So 2018 and 2020 will be local fights.

sidd

AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #672 on: November 06, 2017, 05:10:27 PM »
Terry & sidd,

I am suggesting that true democracy requires serious, and continuous, effort/work by the general public, otherwise, as nature abhors a vacuum, if they do not then moneyed interests will continue to work in the background to corrupt any system, whether the DNC, the RNC or the Green Party.

If Bernie (who is not a Democrat but wants the Democrats to give him control of the DNC) is a true representative of the general US public, and if you feel that it is unreasonable for him to crowdfund the DNC, then as a leader it seems to me that he should at least help the DNC to set-up a crowdfunding system; rather than just trying to make Tom Prez's life more difficult.

Best,
ASLR
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #673 on: November 06, 2017, 06:04:38 PM »
" ... If Bernie (who is not a Democrat but wants the Democrats to give him control of the DNC) ..."

Where do you get the notion that Bernie wants the Democrats to give him control of the DNC ? That definitely requires a citation in support.

" ... if you feel that it is unreasonable for him to crowdfund the DNC ..."

I said not one word as to what Bernie should do. I pointed out that he has no crowdfunding going at all right now. Whether it is "reasonable" to ask him to set up crowdfunding again to support the national leadership of an organization to which he does not belong, I leave to the reader to judge.

" ... make Tom Prez's life more difficult. "

Again i have seen nothing from Bernie Sanders making difficulties for Perez. And again, citation please ?

sidd
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 06:12:22 PM by sidd »

AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #674 on: November 06, 2017, 07:10:18 PM »
" ... If Bernie (who is not a Democrat but wants the Democrats to give him control of the DNC) ..."

Where do you get the notion that Bernie wants the Democrats to give him control of the DNC ? That definitely requires a citation in support.

" ... if you feel that it is unreasonable for him to crowdfund the DNC ..."

I said not one word as to what Bernie should do. I pointed out that he has no crowdfunding going at all right now. Whether it is "reasonable" to ask him to set up crowdfunding again to support the national leadership of an organization to which he does not belong, I leave to the reader to judge.

" ... make Tom Prez's life more difficult. "

Again i have seen nothing from Bernie Sanders making difficulties for Perez. And again, citation please ?

sidd

sidd,

I have only limited interest in this topic, but the first link discusses the politics associated with the established candidate Perez vs the Bernie supporter back candidate Ellison in the campaign to get control of the DNC via the chair:

Title: "Key Question About DNC Race: Why Did Obama White House Recruit Perez to Run Against Ellison?"

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/24/key-question-about-dnc-race-why-did-white-house-recruit-perez-to-run-against-ellison/

Extract: "Members of the Democratic National Committee will meet on Saturday to choose their new chair, replacing the disgraced interim chair Donna Brazile, who replaced the disgraced five-year chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Even though the outcome is extremely unlikely to change the (failed) fundamentals of the party, the race has become something of an impassioned proxy war replicating the 2016 primary fight: between the Clinton/Obama establishment wing (which largely backs Obama Labor Secretary Tom Perez, who vehemently supported Clinton) and the insurgent Sanders wing (which backs Keith Ellison, the first Muslim ever elected to the U.S. Congress, who was an early Sanders supporter)."


The second linked article indicates that that Warren is treating Sanders as the leader of the Democratic Party and is holding Perez accountable for satisfying Bernie:

Title: "Elizabeth Warren Is Treating Bernie Sanders As the Leader of the Democratic Party"

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/warren-treating-sanders-as-leader-of-the-democratic-party.html

Extract: "“This is a test for Tom Perez,” Warren continued. “And either he’s going to succeed by bringing Bernie Sanders and Bernie Sanders’s representatives into the process, and they’re going to say it’s fair, it works, we all believe it, or he’s going to fail. And I very much hope he succeeds. I hope for Democrats everywhere. I hope for Bernie and all of Bernie’s supporters that he’s going to succeed."

Unfortunately, I do not have much interest in getting further into the weeds on this topic, and also I apologize if I misrepresented your position in any way.

Best,
ASLR
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #675 on: November 06, 2017, 08:59:45 PM »
Refresh my memory if need be, but wasn't a vote taken, and didn't Perez lose that vote?
Didn't the DNC have to claim that previously unseen "super delegates" had swung the vote to Perez before announcing his win?


Brazile needed to go because she was "disgraced"
She had been interim chair because Schultz was "disgraced"


After anointing two disgraceful candidates in a row, wasn't it time for the "anointers" to step back and allow the democratic base to try their hand at the job?


A question I have is why the DNC, under Schultz, deigned to keep her consultants employed between election cycles. This apparently unprecedented move may have cost us many seats, particularly at the state level, when funding was curtailed so that the DNC could pay their bills. Bills it should be noted that were run up by these same consultants.


Her cheerleading for the Awan family may not be as simple as a satisfied client recommending her favorite computer nerds to other prospective clients. When the SHTF she apparently reacted like a mother bear whose cubs are under attack.
Commendable loyalty to her employees, or perhaps something else.


Terry

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #676 on: November 06, 2017, 10:19:49 PM »
I don't think Bernie is personally fuelling any attacks on DNC leadership. Rather his supporters object strongly to being sidelined. As for Warren's moves, unkind people might suggest she wants his donor and voter lists for her 2020 run ...

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Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #677 on: November 07, 2017, 03:47:52 AM »
I don't think Bernie is personally fuelling any attacks on DNC leadership. Rather his supporters object strongly to being sidelined. As for Warren's moves, unkind people might suggest she wants his donor and voter lists for her 2020 run ...

Are you one of these 'unkind' people ? Or one of the more rational ones that would suggest that Warren and Bernie simply share much of the same ideas ?
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #678 on: November 07, 2017, 04:10:21 AM »
Re: unkind people's speculation about warren

"Are you one of these 'unkind' people ?"

Qui, moi ? No I was recalling a Boston Globe story with that spin from a sanders "campaign strategist"

" There is a Bernie donor base that’s very important if you want to be in national political office. This is a play for that,” said one former senior Sanders campaign strategist, who requested anonymity to avoid offending Warren. “It’s a calculation. Repairing that relationship is more important than poisoning the well with the Clintonites. "

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/11/03/elizabeth-warren-charge-that-democratic-primary-was-rigged-says-more-about-than/2L5lOAkxFaI5tulLKi9V6N/story.html

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #679 on: November 07, 2017, 06:25:15 AM »
Re: unkind people's speculation about warren

"Are you one of these 'unkind' people ?"

Qui, moi ? No I was recalling a Boston Globe story with that spin from a sanders "campaign strategist"

" There is a Bernie donor base that’s very important if you want to be in national political office. This is a play for that,” said one former senior Sanders campaign strategist, who requested anonymity to avoid offending Warren. “It’s a calculation. Repairing that relationship is more important than poisoning the well with the Clintonites. "

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/11/03/elizabeth-warren-charge-that-democratic-primary-was-rigged-says-more-about-than/2L5lOAkxFaI5tulLKi9V6N/story.html

sidd

Nowhere in that article do I see "she wants his donor and voter lists for her 2020 run".
You came up with that all by yourself.

Even that "anonymous Sanders campaign strategist" suggests "Repairing that relationship is more important than poisoning the well with the Clintonites".
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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #680 on: November 07, 2017, 06:57:34 AM »
sidd


After you bring the rock, you must polish the rock. After you polish the rock, you must remove all of the excess polish. After you remove all of the excess polish, you must ....


Aggravating huh
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #681 on: November 07, 2017, 07:56:20 AM »
After you bring the rock, you must polish the rock. After you polish the rock, you must remove all of the excess polish. After you remove all of the excess polish, you must ....
...realize that what you brought was just mud.
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #682 on: November 07, 2017, 09:44:05 PM »
And here is Democratic party superdelegate Minyon Moore describing her non-lobbyist role:

"Moore, a principal at the lobbying firm Dewey Square Group, was one of the Perez-appointed at-large members of the DNC. She bristled at the notion that her firm engages in lobbying."

"Dewey Square Group worked on behalf of health insurance companies to shape the Affordable Care Act. "

They were also lobbyists for Countrywide (remember them? Angelo Mozillo the orange man ?)

"Emails obtained by the House Oversight Committee in 2009 revealed that Moore was part of the Dewey Square Group lobbying team that played a central role in assisting Countrywide, the subprime mortgage lender, to shape legislation on Capitol Hill."

But Moore made it all clear to those of us who need clarification. Definitely not a lobbyist.

"But what I do for a living is I actually help corporations probably get to where your values are."

Then she ducked out:

"Asked after the event to explain how she advises corporate clients and how she defines her role at Dewey Square Group, Moore declined to comment. Witnessing the encounter, Mullins intervened to block any further questions."

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/06/rahm-emmanuel-on-donna-brazile-claims-this-is-really-totally-irrelevant/

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #683 on: November 07, 2017, 09:58:36 PM »

I hope that Bernie's Revolution can happen WITHIN the Democratic Party, since you will get all of the traditional, conservative Democrats on board too.

But if that doesn't work, a third party is definitively an opinion. There are a LOT of 'independent' voters out there too. And disgruntled Trump voters.

I'm glad that we have at least some common ground to stand on, because I fully agree with you here.

We can discuss whether Corporate Democrats (those that fit the bill) are truly corrupt or just live in this bubble where they think they are actually doing great work, and their handsome pay is deserved. But the more important is that it doesn't matter, as it's the wrong strategy. One of those crucial policy issues is getting money out of politics, and you can't do that with people who have this money sticking to them like tar. It's a stupid strategy.

Even if Corporate Democrats aren't 'evil', the Democratic Party needs a new direction (and Sanders is showing the way). You say that "if we are to 'kick out' the 'Corporate Democrats' it will go via the ballot box", but I think that it needs to be done before that by putting maximum pressure on them. That's why it's good we are having this discussion in this small corner of the Internet as well.

Here's a good video from Humanist Report (I don't watch very often, because the guy's too nice  ;) ), about what Democratic voters actually think about it all:

Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #684 on: November 08, 2017, 01:51:01 AM »
Tulsi reacting to Donna's revelations, now that we're all on a first name basis:





She strikes me as an electable democrat. Electable at any level.
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #685 on: November 08, 2017, 02:31:45 AM »
Giant sweeping victory for Dems across Virginia this evening.  All stripes.  Moderates, Dem Socialist, even a transgender candidate.  This portends a wave in 2018.  The reports of Democrats' demise are premature.  As long as they don't swing too far left.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #686 on: November 08, 2017, 05:18:33 AM »
I'm glad that we have at least some common ground to stand on, because I fully agree with you here.

Glad to see that we have common ground

Quote
Even if Corporate Democrats aren't 'evil', the Democratic Party needs a new direction (and Sanders is showing the way). You say that "if we are to 'kick out' the 'Corporate Democrats' it will go via the ballot box", but I think that it needs to be done before that by putting maximum pressure on them. That's why it's good we are having this discussion in this small corner of the Internet as well.

If we can't even identify who you consider "Corporate Democrats" then not much "pressure" will be applied to them in this small corner of Internet.
In the end, since we live in a democracy, the decisions to throw people out of office will be decided at the ballot box.

Quote
Here's a good video from Humanist Report (I don't watch very often, because the guy's too nice  ;) ), about what Democratic voters actually think about it all:

That video doesn't run. Something about copyright issues.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #687 on: November 08, 2017, 05:23:24 AM »
I told you that the main problem is the Republicans.

Today the turnaround started :

Quote
The Democrats’ electoral validation, though, took place well beyond the Virginia governor’s race: They wrested the governorship of New Jersey away from Republicans, swept two other statewide offices in Virginia and made gains in the Virginia State Legislature, and won a contested mayoral race in New Hampshire.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/us/politics/virginia-election-democrats.html?_r=0
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #688 on: November 08, 2017, 05:42:48 AM »
Krasner elected as DA in Philly. Now lets see if he can (or wants to) clean up Philly democratic machine cesspool.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/city/larry-krasner-wins-race-for-philly-da-20171107.html

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #689 on: November 08, 2017, 06:51:57 AM »
Interesting piece by Taibbi on how the DNC didn't really need to rig the process at all. But that they were willing to reveals a great deal.

"The point of the Brazile story isn't that the people who "rigged" the primary were afraid of losing an election. It's that they weren't afraid of betraying democratic principles, probably because they didn't believe in them anymore."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/taibbi-why-donna-brazile-book-on-hillary-clinton-primary-matters-w511099

I am not sure I agree with him, since I think the roots go back to the betrayal of George McGovern in 1970 or even further to the knifing of Wallace in FDR's last election in 1944. The Democratic Party has never hesitated to rig elections.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #690 on: November 08, 2017, 08:06:47 AM »
Congratulations to the Democratic winners!!


Most voters do want what the Democratic Party espouses. Cut the corporate strings and watch us soar. Hillary is shrinking in the rear view mirror, as memories of her failed campaign fade, the progressive base can again bring home winners.


Terry

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #691 on: November 08, 2017, 08:53:12 AM »
I wonder how many Republicans will show up at the polls tomorrow :

http://time.com/5014046/donald-trump-jr-wrong-voting-day-tweets-twice/
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #692 on: November 08, 2017, 01:29:13 PM »
Northam showed how to win a state like Virginia in the age of Trump and Leftist agitation.  It is a model that can work in other swing and purplish states.  The encouraging aspect of last night in VA and elsewhere is that voters embraced Democratic candidates and ideas very broadly.  It was a huge victory for diversity and inclusion: transgender candidates won multiple races, a lesbian Muslim won, a Sikh won, an African American won a statewide VA race for the first time since 1989.  Even the Left scored some victories with Dem Socialist winners.  A progressive black refugee from Liberia won a mayoral race in...Montana.  Montana!

All of this and the generic congressional ballot showing significant preferences for Dems, along with their over performance in the 4 special elections (which some in this thread mocked), portend a take back the House wave in 2018, along with making big progress at the state and local levels, where Republicans generally dominate.

A Triumph of Decency Over Dread

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ralph-northams-victory-in-virginia/2017/11/07/7b7e3a14-c3e7-11e7-84bc-5e285c7f4512_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-d%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.34aadb7ac544

"Despite some flirtation with a $15 minimum wage and a few other populist stances during the spring Democratic primary, when he faced and vanquished a leftist challenger, his campaign generally avoided appeals to the Bernie Sanders-inspired extreme of his party’s base. He offered substantive proposals to make progress in health care, the economy and the environment. That, along with his generally civil tone, provides a basis to hope that Mr. Northam can forge a record of accomplishment for all Virginians."
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 01:36:21 PM by pileus »

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #693 on: November 09, 2017, 02:24:15 AM »
Got some socialists in:

"At least 12 candidates endorsed by the DSA, the country's largest socialist organization, won races and at least 13 candidates endorsed by Our Revolution, the group started by Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., also won. "

"Instead of running candidates in third parties, the strategy for Our Revolution and DSA has been to elect progressive candidates in an effort to push the Democratic Party left."

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/11/08/Socialist-backed-candidates-win-several-races-across-country/6511510125387/

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #694 on: November 10, 2017, 08:41:16 AM »
Here is a great number of examples of how the disastrous Trump tax plan would treat individuals and corporations differently :

https://www.facebook.com/RepMarkTakano/videos/1316844081777992/

Under the Republican plan, corporations are still allowed to deduct state and local taxes. Workers are not.
Corporations are still allowed to deduct business expenses. Teachers are not.
Corporations are still allowed to deduct more than $10,000 in property taxes. Homeowners are not.
Corporations are still allowed to deduct moving expenses. Families are not.
And this is on top of a $1.5 trillion corporate tax cut.
Let's be clear, this is not a "middle-class tax cut." Working families get the crumbs and the super-wealthy get everything else.

Democrats unity ! And stop this insane handout to the billionaires.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 08:47:29 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #695 on: November 10, 2017, 09:46:14 PM »
Plutocrat to Democrats:

“I’ve made it very clear, I’ll cut your money off and others will do the same. We’ve had enough.”

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/Wealthy-Dem-Stephen-Cloobeck-Blasts-Party-for-12338189.php

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #696 on: November 11, 2017, 05:51:11 AM »
Plutocrat to Democrats:

“I’ve made it very clear, I’ll cut your money off and others will do the same. We’ve had enough.”

I hope the door will hit him in the back on the way out....
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #697 on: November 11, 2017, 06:57:10 AM »
Sanders on Democratic reform:

"The party cannot remain an institution largely dominated by the wealthy and inside-the-Beltway consultants."

Kll the superdelegates. Open up primaries and caucuses. More transparency in finance and policy.

Read all about it:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/10/bernie-sanders-how-to-fix-democratic-party-215813

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #698 on: November 11, 2017, 02:19:55 PM »
Sanders on Democratic reform:

"The party cannot remain an institution largely dominated by the wealthy and inside-the-Beltway consultants."

Kll the superdelegates. Open up primaries and caucuses. More transparency in finance and policy.

Read all about it:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/10/bernie-sanders-how-to-fix-democratic-party-215813

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #699 on: November 11, 2017, 02:58:41 PM »
Pileus:

That cartoon has it wrong, the "boat" needs Sanders as much or more than Sanders needs the "boat"! (Or at least what Sanders represents).

BudM