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Human Habitat Index

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1150 on: March 15, 2018, 01:56:15 AM »
There can not be a proper analysis of politics without realizing the central role of the occulted powers.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

prairiebotanist

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1151 on: March 15, 2018, 02:39:25 AM »
Say what you will. Voters aren't all that smart. If you have faith in the wisdom of the public, well, I guess I'm envious.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1152 on: March 15, 2018, 09:40:09 AM »
You don't need an IQ of 130 to know that you want universal health care, free tuition, living wages, an end to the wars, a healthy environment. I think that even the most stupid among us are able to intuit that if there's no cap on concentrated wealth, all those things will be very hard to achieve.

There are enough non-stupid people that can be energized and come out and vote for you, if you are genuine and have the right message. It's the 'genuine' part where the Democratic Party is struggling.
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1153 on: March 15, 2018, 10:05:43 PM »
Jaffe on the progressive caucus strategy within the Democratic Party, with valuable insights from Europeans:

UK:

"They didn’t care that people like Tony Blair said a socialist like Corbyn was unelectable. They followed that move by calling for nationalizing railroads, scrapping tuition fees, taxing the rich, and other proposals that they had been told, she said, they’d be crazy to run on. On that platform, they made historic gains in the June 2017 elections—in the face of near-constant attacks from the mainstream and tabloid press, the Tories, and within Labour itself."

"Abbott pointed out that Corbyn’s predecessor as Labour leader had tried pandering to the right with “Controls on Immigration” and lost badly, while Corbyn picked up seats in districts that had both the highest Leave percentages and the highest Remain."

Greece:

"Yet in Greece and, this past election, in the U.K., there was another anti-establishment option: the left. People voted for these parties, as Abbott noted, not even because they agreed with everything they stood for, but because they saw them as genuine."

Ellison makes radical noises:

"He even suggested a form of “maximum wage”—taxing executives more if they made more than, say, 20 times more than the people who make the products and perform the services at their companies. “This idea that you can leave people in poverty as you are stacking up dead presidents like nobody’s business has got to come to an end,” he said."

Read the whole thing.

https://newrepublic.com/article/147466/party-within-democratic-party

sidd

Iceismylife

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1154 on: March 15, 2018, 10:36:09 PM »
You don't need an IQ of 130 to know that you want universal health care, free tuition, living wages, an end to the wars, a healthy environment. I think that even the most stupid among us are able to intuit that if there's no cap on concentrated wealth, all those things will be very hard to achieve.

There are enough non-stupid people that can be energized and come out and vote for you, if you are genuine and have the right message. It's the 'genuine' part where the Democratic Party is struggling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

Largely wealth equalization is the only real issue.  All else is fluff. IMO we are past the point of no return on ESAS methane release. That will do 10X what we have in terms of C addition to the atmosphere.

So closing the wealth distribution.  The only thing that matters.
 

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1155 on: March 15, 2018, 11:03:31 PM »
More on what the Bank Lobbyist Act (and the role of defecting Corporate Democrats) means for the Democratic Party:



More on some of those Corporate Democrats (making a profit through their investments in the banks who benefit from the Act):



But Warren uses the act to campaign for funds, so it's okay, right?
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1156 on: March 16, 2018, 10:53:50 PM »
I posted this in the 'Problem of social media' thread, but it's also relevant to this one:

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Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1157 on: March 16, 2018, 10:58:34 PM »
Warren is my Senator (and Ed Markey) and they are terrific!

Lucky you. I have Rubio (in the Senate), Francis Rooney in the House, and  Rick Scott as my governor.

Wanna trade? Please?

Nope. But you have the tremendous Parkland kids. I am gobsmacked by their voices. Meanwhile, my vote doesn't make much difference here, since we're way overbalanced. I'm getting a lot from Crist and Nelson. We can hope. You also have Marion Hammer, trying to make murder legal: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/05/the-nra-lobbyist-behind-floridas-pro-gun-policies

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1158 on: March 16, 2018, 10:59:44 PM »
@Neven: dead people trolling Sanders is probably Russian; sounds just like them.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1159 on: March 16, 2018, 11:06:27 PM »
It's not just the Russians doing it, and thus part of a much larger problem. This is an instance of Democrats who hate Sanders doing it, but I wouldn't be surprised if BernieBros do it as well, or will do it soon. At some point everyone is going to do it. It would be naive to think that only the Russians do it.

But that's why I opened that other thread. This is something that needs to be solved, preferably before the next major elections. I've already solved it for myself: I don't use social media.  ;)
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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1160 on: March 16, 2018, 11:15:36 PM »
It's not just the Russians doing it, and thus part of a much larger problem. This is an instance of Democrats who hate Sanders doing it, but I wouldn't be surprised if BernieBros do it as well, or will do it soon. At some point everyone is going to do it. It would be naive to think that only the Russians do it.

But that's why I opened that other thread. This is something that needs to be solved, preferably before the next major elections. I've already solved it for myself: I don't use social media;)
Ramen!!
Terry

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1161 on: March 16, 2018, 11:28:47 PM »
Jaffe on the progressive caucus strategy within the Democratic Party, with valuable insights from Europeans:

UK:

"They didn’t care that people like Tony Blair said a socialist like Corbyn was unelectable. They followed that move by calling for nationalizing railroads, scrapping tuition fees, taxing the rich, and other proposals that they had been told, she said, they’d be crazy to run on. On that platform, they made historic gains in the June 2017 elections—in the face of near-constant attacks from the mainstream and tabloid press, the Tories, and within Labour itself."

"Abbott pointed out that Corbyn’s predecessor as Labour leader had tried pandering to the right with “Controls on Immigration” and lost badly, while Corbyn picked up seats in districts that had both the highest Leave percentages and the highest Remain."

Greece:

"Yet in Greece and, this past election, in the U.K., there was another anti-establishment option: the left. People voted for these parties, as Abbott noted, not even because they agreed with everything they stood for, but because they saw them as genuine."

Ellison makes radical noises:

"He even suggested a form of “maximum wage”—taxing executives more if they made more than, say, 20 times more than the people who make the products and perform the services at their companies. “This idea that you can leave people in poverty as you are stacking up dead presidents like nobody’s business has got to come to an end,” he said."

Read the whole thing.

https://newrepublic.com/article/147466/party-within-democratic-party

sidd

I just read the whole thing, thanks. Lots of good quotes in there. I'm glad to see there are people who try to find ways to overcome division that doesn't include uniting behind BAU out of fear of the right. And a key word seems to be 'genuine'.

I'll just quote the final paragraphs:

Quote
The personal and political attacks of course will come with any left program. But worrying about what the opposition thinks too much, Shenker-Osorio said, is counterproductive. In fact, the best message is one to “engage the base, persuade the middle, and alienate the opposition.” She pointed to Black Lives Matter, or to the Parkland, Florida youth, as two movements that don’t worry about the fact that they make some people mad, and in turn have successfully changed the discourse.

The hardest part of the struggle, these days, is providing hope for people, allowing them to believe that positive change is possible. People, Shenker-Osorio said, are plenty angry. What they need to see is a plausible alternative, one they believe can win. That will require a compelling platform, relationships that are built for the long haul, networks that can act when something—the Parkland shooting, the #MeToo moment—breaks through the noise. And it will, in fact, require sticking to those principles like Barbara Lee did, even when they are unpopular. After all, Diane Abbott told the CPC summit, “We believed in the politics of the long haul and we have lived to see the things we campaigned on for years now form the center of the political debate.”
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1162 on: March 17, 2018, 08:10:22 AM »
I have previously referred to Gilens and page ( doi:10.1017/S1537592714001595 )

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1068.msg125889.html#msg125889

 showing the irrevelance of the poor in policy choice of legislators of the USA. Another discussion on the same lines proceeds in the "Economic Inequality" thread, albeit in a more global arena.

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1163 on: March 17, 2018, 08:12:57 AM »
Leftward motion on health care in the Demmocratic Party ? Jilani is more hopeful than I am.

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/12/single-payer-health-care-democrats/

sidd

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1164 on: March 17, 2018, 10:40:20 PM »
Leftward motion on health care in the Demmocratic Party ? Jilani is more hopeful than I am.

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/12/single-payer-health-care-democrats/

sidd
The comments were even better than the article itself. A few obvious right wing or health insurance shills, but the vast majority were screaming that they wouldn't vote for any candidate that wasn't firmly in favor of a single payer plan.


A step in the right direction
Terry

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1165 on: March 19, 2018, 10:45:36 PM »
Something about Democratic 'turncoats' in the New York senate, who regularly vote with their Republican buddies:

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1166 on: March 20, 2018, 10:34:28 PM »
This was posted in another thread, but it has relevance here. Bernie coming out for tariffs is explosive, but all of this is worth thinking about.  Read and watch the whole thing, two hour video is worth it.

“We need a party that’s going to be there for the people, the working people … We need to challenge people on our own side of the fence to stand up and do their job for the working people of this country,”

The biggest party is the non-voters’ party.” He rejected the notion that non-voters were apathetic, saying that skipping the polls was an “an act of civil disobedience”. He added: “They aren’t going to vote, unless you give them a reason to vote.”

“Unions built America’s middle class. It will take unions to rebuild America’s middle class,”

“We have to go broader [than Trump’s tariffs]. I have called for the ending of permanent normal trade relations with China and Nafta. I think trade is a positive thing, but it has to be done in a way that is fair.”

“With that in mind, I want to make this clear ... If we just get rid of Trump, and return to what it was like the day before Trump, how were things then? With healthcare? With poverty? We have to move forward"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/20/bernie-sanders-russia-and-stormy-daniels-distract-us-from-real-problem-of-inequality

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/19/watch-live-bernie-sanders-hosts-a-town-hall-on-inequality

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1167 on: March 20, 2018, 11:06:54 PM »
“With that in mind, I want to make this clear ... If we just get rid of Trump, and return to what it was like the day before Trump, how were things then? With healthcare? With poverty? We have to move forward"

Pelosi: "I don't think people want a new direction."
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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1168 on: March 21, 2018, 12:21:37 AM »
“With that in mind, I want to make this clear ... If we just get rid of Trump, and return to what it was like the day before Trump, how were things then? With healthcare? With poverty? We have to move forward"

Pelosi: "I don't think people want a new direction."
She must be elated at where we are at present. This is where her direction lead us.
Terry

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1169 on: March 21, 2018, 11:15:30 PM »
Meet the Democratic warmongers, no war too small for them to cheerlead. Keep killing Yemenis, they don't vote, or donate to politicians.

"Democratic Senators Christopher Coons, Catherine Cortez Masto, Joe Donnelly, Heidi Heitkamp, Doug Jones, Joe Manchin, Robert Menendez, Bill Nelson, Jack Reed, and Sheldon Whitehouse "

https://shadowproof.com/2018/03/20/with-help-of-ten-senate-democrats-pentagon-can-still-make-war-in-yemen/

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1170 on: March 22, 2018, 05:59:54 AM »
Sheldon Whitehouse? I don't get it...  ??? :(
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ivica

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1171 on: March 22, 2018, 06:30:28 AM »

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1172 on: March 22, 2018, 06:47:18 AM »
I liked him here:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,179.msg76673.html#msg76673

Yes, that's how I know Sheldon Whitehouse. There was a post once on Rabett Run on how this senator holds regular talks on climate in the Senate. I thought that was awesome!

Quote
Then this happened: (check video under "Meltdown of sanity")  >:(
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,179.msg99744.html#msg99744
[/quote]

Yes, I saw that too. I actually defended Whitehouse in the comment section of that Jimmy Dore video (even though he said that we need to trust intelligence agencies like we trust climate scientists, which is a horrible analogy). It's the only time I've ever written a comment under one of Dore's videos.

How is it possible that someone who gets it with regards to AGW and who is part of the resistance to Trump, then goes out and votes with Republicans and Corporate Democrats for more US war crimes!? I really don't get it...
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ivica

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1173 on: March 22, 2018, 09:59:01 AM »
Re "meltdown of sanity"
I watched that video at the time more then 10 times over period of a few days. I could not believe my ears.
Something similar happened with old man which I liked too, many ppl thought he should run for president but he had his son lost ... Then (with timing similar to SW) I saw video (or two?) with his warmongering. (can not recall his name nor I want to)

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1174 on: March 22, 2018, 11:04:45 PM »
I had skipped past the Dore video that ivica had provided. What an eye opener!


Neven
I'm constantly amazed at those who see through the BS that deniers throw up, but accept war mongers lies as though they were sent from on high. If you recognize that politicians in the pay of King Coal are not to be trusted when they pontificate about the myth of global warming, how can you not harbor reservations when listening to politicians in debt to the MIC as they spout off about Putin's murders, collusions or aggressions?


Propaganda I fear is more powerful than logic. Fighting against it requires the victim to recognize his own victim-hood, a difficult task for those reared in a Macho Culture.
Even after generations having been raised that were fully aware of the constant barrage of lies fed to them by the "Intelligence Community", they still believe it when the propagandists again insist that this time they are being honest. This time the threat is real. This time the evil really is without.


As they have once glimpsed the truth behind the curtain, I am taken aback when again they fall for the MSM's, the MIC's, and the NIC's lies.
Terry




sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1175 on: March 23, 2018, 05:01:37 AM »
There is a paper out by Ferg et al. that explores funding structure of the 2016 presidential campaigns. It has important lessons for this thread, foremost being as a study of what not to do. Corporate democrats raised a billion and a half and lost. Don't do that no more.

some excerpts

--
"With respect to the Sanders campaign, these tables show something we are
confident is without precedent in American politics not just since the New Deal, but
across virtually the whole of American history, waiving the dubious case of the legendary
1896 election: a major presidential candidate waging a strong, highly competitive
campaign whose support from big business is essentially zero."

"the 2016 eruptions
constitute a tipping point – a moment when the many pressures that had been squeezing
voters for a long time cumulated to a point where, quite literally, daily existence for many
had become close to unlivable. There is strong evidence that many citizens were
searching desperately for ways out of what looked (and in fact are) dead-end situations.
Many rebelled as they listened to commentators tell them that the US economy was really
doing better than it had in many years and that they should be celebrating America’s exit
from the Great Recession. They were unmoved by the chorus of conventional politicians
trying to sell old nostrums that by 2014 were plainly obsolete for them in their
communities. The reality of the Hunger Games was just too obvious and empty slogans
no longer appealed, they just disgusted or enraged. When two politicians broke through
the big money cartels that dominate both major parties, popular enthusiasm surged almost
overnight to seismic levels, shocking elites in both parties and flummoxing the entire
American establishment."

"For Clinton’s campaign the temptation was irresistible: Over time it slipped into a
variant of the strategy Lyndon Johnson pursued in 1964 in the face of another candidate
who seemed too far out of the mainstream to win: Go for a grand coalition with most of
big business."

" ... with the possible exception of 1964 – the Clinton campaign looks like no other Democratic campaign since the New Deal. The Clinton campaign reached far into sectors and firms that have rarely supported any Democrat. The strong resemblance to the profile of the Romney campaign in 2012 in many (though
not all) particulars is striking ... "
--

read the whole thing

https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/how-money-won-trump-the-white-house

https://www.ineteconomics.org/uploads/papers/Ferg-Jorg-Chen-INET-Working-Paper-Industrial-Structure-and-Party-Competition-in-an-Age-of-Hunger-Games-8-Jan-2018.pdf

sidd

ivica

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1176 on: March 24, 2018, 11:13:14 AM »
i know you know all that, however:
"Deplorables II: The Dismal Dems in Stormy Times" by Paul Street, March 23, 2018

Sort of a summary of corps dem problems, you decide - read it or not - i recommend, if for no other reason then just to fight "the amnesia force" ;)

"A final observation on a more serious note. Please observe the habitual “mainstream” media references to the Tangerine Satan (and to right-wing neo-fascist parties in Europe) as “populist.” This is meant, I think, to smear the real and left-leaning thing that is actual economic and political populism."

< Saving The Planet is "reactionists" idea these years. >

ivica

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1177 on: March 26, 2018, 10:13:44 PM »
Smears and media bias, how to confront

As Bernie says (00:19:53): "These guys do not go easily into the sunset, you know, and there would be tremendous resistance and it would certainly take its form in the media as well."

UK experience is useful:
https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/03/26/heres-how-thousands-of-people-are-standing-up-to-smears-against-jeremy-corbyn/

"Thousands have taken to Twitter to offer support for Jeremy Corbyn. A pre-planned Twitter ‘blast’ was planned to share positive news about the Labour leader as he faces criticism from some party members and pretty much every mainstream media outlet."

AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1178 on: March 29, 2018, 04:47:01 PM »
The Democratic party has been reanimated, and the blue wave is ready to crush the GOP in November:

Title: "How the Bernie Wing Won the Democratic Primaries"

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/29/bernie-sanders-democrats-primaries-217719

Extract: "In state after state, the left is proving to be the animating force in Democratic primaries, producing a surge of candidates who are forcefully driving the party toward a more liberal orientation on nearly every issue."

Edit: Who cares whether a cat is black or white so long as it catches mice?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 05:20:07 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1180 on: April 01, 2018, 08:50:46 PM »
Warren, Gillibrand endorse Jobs-for-All programs:

https://theintercept.com/2018/04/01/federal-job-guaranteed-jobs-program/

sidd

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1181 on: April 01, 2018, 09:50:27 PM »
A very good IMHO, description and history of NeoLiberalism

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/15/neoliberalism-ideology-problem-george-monbiot

by George Monbiot!
"Inequality is recast as virtuious, The Market ensures that everyone gets what they deserve."

I'm not sure this is the thread that our discussions about the threat of neoliberalism was on, but this might clear up some of the misunderstandings.

Terry

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1182 on: April 01, 2018, 10:52:40 PM »
Gulf between coasts and flyover: a reporter travels thru clinton country.

" “I am in a bubble,” she told me. “But now, I don’t want to get out of it.” "

They need to break thru to voters in flyover country. Can't win without them.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/30/red-blue-america-clinton-trump-country-217760

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1183 on: April 03, 2018, 05:11:57 PM »
If what this lady says, is true, it's truly insane (anyone from the 14th district in New York here?):

Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1184 on: April 03, 2018, 07:40:43 PM »
If what this lady says, is true, it's truly insane (anyone from the 14th district in New York here?):


Interesting at ~15:00 they start talking about a candidate who won even while being out spent ten times over!
Somehow the Democrats need to learn that out spending the opposition isn't the same as beating the opposition. A strong populist, progressive message is worth much more than deep corporate pockets & you can't do both in the same race.


The Money or the Message.
Terry

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1185 on: April 03, 2018, 08:12:36 PM »
Canova to run as independent against Wasserman-Schulz

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/381388-tim-canova-says-he-is-leaving-dem-party-will-run-as-independent

Don't look too good for him yet, no money.

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1186 on: April 03, 2018, 08:17:23 PM »
A cynical look at some corp democrats:

"Ann Kirkpatrick cast the vote that kept Guantanamo Bay open  ..."
" Jason Crow ... funded by his law firm which lobbies for casinos, fossil fuel companies ..."
"Paul Davis ... supported drug tests for welfare recipients and a corporate tax cut during the recession. "
"Elissa Slotkin is a hereditary millionaire who is ex-CIA, ex-Bush National Security Council, ex-Obama Department of Defense, she participated in a coverup of Reagan-funded death squads in Central America"
"Brad Ashford introduced bills to lower corporate taxes and ban the hiring of undocumented workers"
"Jeff Van Drew .... voted against raising minimum wage, against death-penalty abolition ... against affordable housing quotes"

"Just another reason you shouldn't give a dime to the Democratic establishment."

https://boingboing.net/2018/04/02/our-revolution-3.html

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1187 on: April 03, 2018, 08:18:34 PM »
A broader view of Democratic candidates from the Jacobin:

"The list — much like the party’s picks in general — tends towards military veterans and former officials, particularly if they happen to be business owners, wealthy, and well-connected."

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/04/democratic-party-red-to-blue-list-candidates

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1188 on: April 03, 2018, 08:20:47 PM »
McClatchy on a new crop of underfunded democratic candidates:

"Underfunded candidates are claiming upsets. Campaigns are grappling with thousands of new voters. And the group meant to be a guiding Democrats through it all is instead at the center of a storm of criticism."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article207759329.html

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solartim27

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1189 on: April 03, 2018, 11:13:26 PM »
A cynical look at some corp democrats:
I saw this last night, and was just about to post it.  Wanted to add the last bit with the alternative donation links
Quote
Instead, support Our Revolution, the Great Slate and Brand New Congress.
https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/ourrevolution
https://secure.actblue.com/donate/great_slate#rl1
http://brandnewcongress.org/
FNORD

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1190 on: April 08, 2018, 08:09:11 PM »
Interview with Manning, she's running against Cardin for senate in Maryland.

"Ben Cardin will never talk about, you know, he might talk about borders here in America but he'll never talk about border walls between Israel and Palestine, he'll never talk about health, health care, like being single payer. He'll never talk about single payer health care, because his primary funders are from the health insurance industry. He is bought and sold ... "

http://therealnews.com/t2/story:21517:Chelsea-Manning-On-Nazis%2C-the-Surveillance-State%2C-and-Running-For-Senate

Go, Chelsea, go.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1191 on: April 13, 2018, 12:41:41 PM »
A reminder of why the Corporate Democrats need kicking out. It seems enough Democrats will vote so Pompeo becomes the next Secretary of State.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/13/mike-pompeo-disaster-climate-change-democrats

Quote
Mike Pompeo is a disaster for the planet. Why do Democrats back him?

Pompeo is extreme in his denial of climate change. We must pressure Democrats who have backed him to change course


Ignorant, dangerous, and absolutely unbelievable.” This is how Mike Pompeo, then the nominee for CIA director, described the idea that climate change threatens our nation’s security in his 2017 Senate confirmation hearings. It’s also how our generation and many to come will remember any senator who votes to confirm Pompeo as our next secretary of state.

Donald Trump’s decision to nominate Pompeo to replace the former ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson signals loud and clear that he wants fossil fuel barons to continue running our government and state department. Infamous as the “congressman from Koch”, Pompeo is the top all-time recipient of Koch Industries campaign contributions; he accepted nearly $1.5m from the fossil fuel companies between 2009 and 2017.........

Here, then, is a list of Democrats who voted to approve Pompeo for his current position as CIA director:
Donnelly (Indiana)
Feinstein (California)
Hassan (New Hampshire)
Heitkamp (North Dakota)
Kaine (Virginia)
King (Maine independent; caucuses with Democrats)
Klobuchar (Minnesota)
Manchin (West Virginia)
McCaskill (Missouri)
Reed (Rhode Island)
Schatz (Hawaii)
Schumer (New York)
Shaheen (New Hampshire)
Warner (Virginia)
Whitehouse (Rhode Island)
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

sedziobs

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1192 on: April 13, 2018, 07:46:03 PM »
This is my first foray in this thread.  There was some conversation on the first page about personally knowing Trump voters. A majority of the people I interact with on a daily basis support Trump.  I live in northern Ohio and was raised in a conservative evangelical Christian household.  Half of my extended family are ardent Trump supporters.  The only policies they really care about are anti-abortion, pro-gun and pro-military.  This is generally true of rural voters in the midwest and south in my opinion.  However, among people in the younger generations, conservatives have much more libertarian leaning views.  They support civil rights and favor non-interventionist foreign policy, but oppose socialistic government spending programs.  There is a similar demographic split among Democrats.  The old Democratic core favors labor unions, economic protectionism, and regime change in foreign policy.  The younger liberal wing is more egalitarian.

I don't know how to fix the problem of corporate Democrats, but it is my opinion that the generational split means the party will move to the left gradually over time.  I think a similar change will happen in the Republican party, as the younger conservatives eschew the fundamentalist Christian ideologies.

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1193 on: April 13, 2018, 07:51:15 PM »
sed
Could I ask at what age you are splitting the younger and older generations?
Terry

sedziobs

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1194 on: April 13, 2018, 07:57:23 PM »
Could I ask at what age you are splitting the younger and older generations?
Certainly not a fine line.  I think 40-50 is a decent approximation, roughly matching the demographics of TV news viewership:

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1195 on: April 13, 2018, 08:23:11 PM »
Damn!
I thought it was just my age that had me referring to anyone under 50 as a kid.

It's an interesting chart. The split between parties viewing network and cable news is I supposed to be expected, but the increase in cable news viewers by those with higher salaries was a surprise.

I had noticed a rapid drop in democratic voters and an increase in republicans from the time Trump started banging the war drums.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-generic-ballot-polls/?ex_cid=irpromo

Trump's own numbers have been drifting down, but no sharp break as with party preference.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/voters/

No idea at this point as to which party is considered less likely to lead us into war.
Terry

sedziobs

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1196 on: April 13, 2018, 09:20:40 PM »
Quote
The narrative of the older generation of liberals is that Donald Trump is so bad, voters have to hold their nose and vote for Clinton. The option alone of a third party vote is skewered online, mostly by establishment liberals who have increasingly come to represent the poor policy making that has led to a mammoth-sized debt and veritable police state in the U.S. and U.S. warfare state abroad. Donald Trump does not "scare" millennials as much as the mess older voters have made of the country.
...
Millennials are used to start-ups. They are early adopters whose behaviors and decisions are helping drive old giants of industry out of business, from Blockbuster to taxicabs. The latest polls suggest they have the potential to disrupt the political industry in this country in the same way they've disrupted so many others. All the fearmongering over Trump, the cries of false equivalency, and the attempts by millennial "influencers" like Vox.com to frame the Clinton campaign as something transformative millennials ought to get behind, won't bring millennials to heel in the way major parties were able to in days gone by.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/15/millennials-just-arent-that-into-hillary

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1197 on: April 13, 2018, 10:26:37 PM »
Curry, an Democrat old timer who saw the sausage being made in the Clinton admin, on corruption in DC. He saves some of his more savage digs for the Democrats:

--
“Obama made a series of promises. He promised to bring C-Span cameras into the health care negotiations so that the public would know what was going on. He promised to end the revolving door between government and the K Street lobbyists. He promised to end no bid contracts. He promised he would treat whistleblowers as heros. He promised that no lobbyists would work for his administration.”

How many of those promises did he keep?

“None. Not a single one."
--

--
" ... his main message down the stretch of that 2008 election was cleaning up Washington. When he got into office, he personally decided not to fulfill any of the promises he made. It was the single issue on which he made the most specific promises. There are very few issues on which he was as detailed in terms of what he was going to do.”

“In fact, he didn’t do any of it.”
--

--
"You could fairly distill Bernie’s campaign into three points.”

“One, that democracy is corrupt.”

“Two, the middle class is dying.”

“And three, the reason the middle class is dying is because the democracy is corrupt.”
--

--
"Our problem is not partisan gridlock or disagreement ... Our biggest problem is the bipartisan agreement ..."
--

Read the whole thing:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/04/13/bill-curry-on-corruption-in-america/


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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1198 on: April 13, 2018, 10:46:55 PM »

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1199 on: April 13, 2018, 11:08:58 PM »
Tulsi in 2020. - Bernie for VP
Terry