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Author Topic: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out  (Read 111583 times)

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1600 on: September 06, 2018, 02:05:58 PM »
Catching up with old news before I return to the wilderness...


DNC changes superdelegate rules in presidential nomination process
August 25, 2018
Chicago (CNN) Democrats on Saturday voted to chip away at the role party insiders play in choosing the party's presidential nominee in one of the biggest changes to the process in decades.

The move to limit the influence of "superdelegates" at the party's convention ahead of the 2020 presidential primaries ended an emotional and tumultuous two-year effort born out of the divisive 2016 contest between Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who went on to become the Democratic nominee.

In a surprisingly united vote, almost all members of the Democratic National Convention curtailed the ability of the superdelegates to vote on the first ballot for the party's presidential nominee beginning with the next election. The group of about 700 automatic, unpledged party leaders, elected officials and activists previously were able to back whichever candidate for the nomination they chose.

(...)

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/25/politics/democrats-superdelegates-voting-changes/index.html
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1601 on: September 06, 2018, 08:48:21 PM »
Interview with Thomas Frank at truthout:

"Why does the Democratic Party have such a problem relating to the concerns of the working class?

Because that’s not really who they are any more. Like those DC pundits described above, they identify with the white-collar professional class. The party’s leadership faction has been in the grip of a post-industrial fantasy since the 1980s; they came to identify with Wall Street in the 1990s and with Silicon Valley during Obama’s presidency ... by and large, the party’s leadership doesn’t get it. They see their future in the prosperous suburbs and among the winners ... "

https://truthout.org/articles/what-liberals-have-gotten-wrong-about-main-street-usa/

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1602 on: September 07, 2018, 06:55:55 AM »

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1603 on: September 11, 2018, 12:18:53 AM »
America's Finest News Source:

"Obama reportedly urged young voters to get out there and ignore how many lousy candidates the Democratic Party runs"

"pressing young people to avoid thinking about the actual track records and ideological beliefs of Democratic Party politicians who have been in government for years and just concentrating on the (D) next to their name"

"standing up to the Republican Party by voting for Democrats who are in many respects exactly like their Republican opponents"

Less than one in five young Americans voted in the 2014 midterms because our party ran very few good "candidates, and we implore you to go out and vote this time even though we’re doing that again."

https://politics.theonion.com/obama-urges-young-voters-to-ignore-how-many-lousy-candi-1828941779

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Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1604 on: September 11, 2018, 12:44:57 AM »
"standing up to the Republican Party by voting for Democrats who are in many respects exactly like their Republican opponents"

Less than one in five young Americans voted in the 2014 midterms because our party ran very few good "candidates, and we implore you to go out and vote this time even though we’re doing that again."

https://politics.theonion.com/obama-urges-young-voters-to-ignore-how-many-lousy-candi-1828941779
Doesn't sound like The Onion. Sounds more like Trumputin enablers.
Voting at primaries is also voting. Ask Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1605 on: September 11, 2018, 07:09:50 AM »
Rob Urie on elections as illusion, choices merely between "two wings of the same bird of prey"

"fake buttons that are provided to give people the illusion of control."

"The predictable result, that a few already rich people were made richer to the outer bounds of human avarice while everyone else was stuck in a public-private partnership of engineered downward mobility, is the program that Ms. Pelosi and the national Democrats intend to move forward. The apparent calculation is that Donald Trump is so widely loathed that they can run on an austerity program and counter the reformers and democratic socialists through control of the public purse. "

"a difference between Occupy Wall Street and the #Resistance is the choice of targets. As the center of American finance capitalism, Wall Street controls American political economy. "

"The #Resistance poses one person, Donald Trump, as ‘the problem’ implying that getting him out of office would solve everything that needs to be solved."

"elections are the fake buttons of politics— they provide the illusion of political control without its fact."

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/10/elections-and-the-illusion-of-political-control/

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1606 on: September 11, 2018, 07:18:41 AM »
Corporates rally to preserve corporate dem: hey, she screwed the pensioners, must b allrite.

" ... handed a billion dollars of state worker money over to hedge funds ..."

But what the hell, this democratic governor has

" ... record of always working for Wall Street and corporations at the expense of the people. It’s a record of cutting Medicaid and giving out corporate giveaways, handouts, out to handpicked corporations that are often her campaign donors ..."

Neato keen. What's not to like ? Democratic Party is all for her. What could go wrong.

https://theintercept.com/2018/09/10/matt-brown-gina-raimondo-democratic-primary-rhode-island/

More seriously, this is a bad hill to die on for the Democratic Party. Rhode Island has been mob controlled for a long time.

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1607 on: September 11, 2018, 08:21:01 PM »
[edited to correct a typo as Mr. Bejnar kindly pointed out: NT changed to NY ]

Zephyr Teachout making a run for NY Attorney General: opponent is a corporate dem supported by corporate money:

https://theintercept.com/2018/09/11/zephyr-teachout-attorney-general-new-york/

Go, Zephyr, go!

sidd
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 08:53:41 PM by sidd »

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1608 on: September 11, 2018, 08:28:54 PM »
Thomas Frank interview: Democrats lose because they betrayed their voters.

"Together, as Robert Reich has written, all these developments are ‘the logical culmination of a process that began thirty years ago when corporations began turning over full-time jobs to temporary workers, independent contractors, free-lancers, and consultants.’ This is atavism, not innovation…. And if we keep going in this direction, it will one day reduce all of us to day laborers, standing around like the guys outside the local hardware store, hoping for work.  "

"And they all agreed that  Bartels was right about that, and that was a costly mistake. For example, Paul Krugman, a guy whom I admire in a lot of ways, he referenced this four or five times. He agreed with it. No, the Democrats are not losing the white working class outside the South — they were not going over to the Republicans. The suggestion was that there is nothing to worry about.Yes. And there were people saying this right up to the 2016 election. But it was a mistake."

"here are all kinds of questionable reactions to 2016 out there, and what they all have in common is the faith that Democrats did nothing wrong. For example, this same circle of the bien-pensants have decided that the only acceptable explanation for Trump’s victory is the racism of his supporters. Racism can be the only explanation for the behavior of Trump voters ... "

"it comes back to the same point that was made by all those people who denied what was happening with the white working class, which is: The Democratic Party needs to do nothing differently ... So a couple years ago they were saying about the white working class — we don’t have to worry about them — they’re not leaving the Democratic Party, they’re totally loyal ... now they say, well, Those people are racists, and therefore they’re lost to us forever. What is the common theme of these two arguments? It’s always that there’s nothing the Democratic Party needs to do differently. First, you haven’t lost them; now you have lost them and they’re irretrievable: Either way — you see what I’m getting at? — you don’t have to do anything differently to win them."

"So why did they let the Wall Street bankers off the hook? Because these people were them. These people are their peers. Why did they refuse to do what obviously needed to be done with the health care system? Because they didn’t want to do that to their friends in Big Pharma. Why didn’t Obama get tough with Google and Facebook? They obviously have this kind of scary monopoly power that we haven’t seen in a long time. Instead, he brought them into the White House, he identified with them"

"The Democrats posture as the ‘party of the people’ even as they dedicate themselves ever more resolutely to serving and glorifying the professional class. Worse: they combine self-righteousness and class privilege in a way that Americans find stomach-turning"

Read the whole thing:

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/09/read-book-itll-make-radical-conversation-thomas-frank.html

sidd


sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1609 on: September 11, 2018, 09:49:03 PM »
To get a better return on investment than investing in politicians, you would need to get into loan sharking or the drug trade.

"Five renewable energy behemoths who have given tens of thousands of dollars to Cuomo have received grants in the millions."

https://truthout.org/articles/new-york-gov-andrew-cuomos-donors-get-the-green/

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1610 on: September 11, 2018, 10:54:50 PM »
Sirota at the Guardian makes the case the ousting Trump is not enuf, the corporate democrats need to go, too.

"liberal America’s pattern of electing corporate Democrats – rather than progressives – has been a big part of the problem that led to Trump and that continues to make America’s economic and political system a neo-feudal dystopia."

"Take California: a state where Democrats control the governorship, every state constitutional office and a legislative supermajority. With healthcare premiums rising, polls show 70% of Americans support the creation of a government-sponsored healthcare system ... Democrats are using their power to shut down single-payer legislation as they rake in big money from private insurance and drug companies."

" A solidly Democratic New York, Connecticut and New Jersey have declined to take up single payer, and have also refused to pass legislation closing special “carried interest” tax loopholes that benefit a handful of Wall Street moguls. "

"Even in deep blue Rhode Island – where Democrats are so dominant the 113 member legislature has only 17 Republicans – then-treasurer Gina Raimondo and her fellow Democrats chose to stake their brand on a plan that eviscerated retirement benefits for teachers, firefighters, cops and other public sector workers. Raimondo, a former financial executive whose firm received state investments, also shifted billions of dollars of public workers’ retirement savings into politically connected hedge funds and private equity firms that charge outsized fees ..."

"In New Jersey, for instance, state Democratic lawmakers who spent years slamming Republican governor Chris Christie for refusing to pass a millionaires tax quickly delayed and then watered down the same tax proposal when Democrats reclaimed the governorship. "

" in Colorado, where Democrats have been winning elections, the party machine joined with Republicans in 2016 to help the insurance industry crush a universal healthcare ballot measure ... top Democrats are breaking with the party’s grassroots activists and uniting with Republicans to allow oil and gas companies to frack and drill near schools, hospitals and residential neighborhoods"

" [In Chicago] the administration of Democratic stalwart Rahm Emanuel has used that power to initiate one of American history’s largest mass closures of public schools and layoff hundreds of teachers. During Emanuel’s tenure, public workers’ retirement savings were invested with financial firms whose executives have bankrolled Emanuel’s political apparatus."

"Democrats’ let-them-eat-cake attitude and nothing-to-see-here complacency is a toxic gangrene afflicting not just the distant tips of the party’s local tendrils. The fish rots from the head down, and Democrats’ festering noggin is at the top of the national party, where Democratic states’ federal lawmakers have been helping Republicans ransack everything not nailed down to the floor."

"Less than a decade ago, with Democratic majorities controlling both the House and Senate, it was the administration led by Obama and Emanuel that bailed out Wall Street, enshrined a too-big-to-jail doctrine for megabanks and – by its own admission – designed the Affordable Care Act to preclude Medicare for All. Obama’s administration did this while Democrats controlled both the House and Senate. It was Democratic lawmakers’ like Delaware’s Tom Carper and Connecticut’s Joe Lieberman who helped insurance and pharmaceutical lobbyists make sure the ACA also excluded any public healthcare option that could compete with private insurers."

" 16 Senate Democrats voting to help Wall Street lobbyists gut post-financial-crisis banking regulations. Those include blue-staters like Colorado’s Michael Bennet and Delaware’s Chris Coons, the latter of which then went on to make national headlines slamming progressives for supposedly pushing the party too far to the left.

It is 13 Senate Democrats, including 2020 presidential prospect Cory Booker of Democratic New Jersey, beholding skyrocketing drug prices – and then voting to help pharmaceutical lobbyists defeat Bernie Sanders’ initiative to let Americans purchase lower-priced medicine from Canada."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/10/trump-neoliberal-democratic-party-america

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1611 on: September 18, 2018, 06:07:14 AM »
Color me unsurprised. Republican warmongers endorse CIA democratic candidate:

" John Negroponte, former ambassador to Iraq and the first Director of National Intelligence; Stephen Hadley, national security advisor to President George W. Bush; former Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, who was secretary of defense in the Obama administration; and retired General Douglas Lute, deputy national security adviser for Iraq and Afghanistan under Bush and for Afghanistan and Pakistan under Obama."

Every single one of of those is a war criminal.

"have endorsed the Democratic candidate for Congress in the 8th District of Michigan, Elissa Slotkin."

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/14/slot-s14.html

sidd


« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 06:12:21 AM by sidd »

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1612 on: September 20, 2018, 06:57:24 AM »
Grifters gonna grift:

"the Obama Foundation will pay a mere $10 for a 99-year lease on what is supposed to be a public park."

C'mon Obama. You're getting millions and millions. You don't have to do the nickel and dime street grift anymore. You don't have to run those lo-rent people outta their homes. Lot of 'em voted for you, back in the day. But I guess they ain't done nuttn for you lately.

sidd
 

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1613 on: September 22, 2018, 01:04:40 AM »
Chapter and verse on corporate democrats and how they screwed the homeowners: Barofsky on the 2008 meltdown.

 “I had no idea that the U.S. government had been captured by the banks,”

“One particularly pernicious type of abuse was that servicers would direct borrowers who were current on their mortgages to start skipping payments, telling them that they would allow them to qualify for a HAMP modification.  The servicers thereby racked up more late fees, and meanwhile many of the borrowers might have been entitled to participate in HAMP even if they had never missed a payment. Those led to some of the most heartbreaking cases. Homeowners who might have been able to ride out the crisis instead ended up in long trial modifications, after which the servicers would deny them a permanent modification and then send them an enormous “deficiency” bill.”

“Geithner apparently looked at HAMP as an aid to the banks, keeping the full flush of foreclosures from hitting the financial system all at the same time. Though they could handle up to “10 million foreclosures” over time, any more than that, or if the foreclosures were too concentrated, and the losses that the banks might suffer on their first and second mortgages could push them into insolvency, requiring yet another round of TARP bailouts. So HAMP would “foam the runway” by stretching out the foreclosures, giving the banks more time to absorb losses while other parts of the bailouts juiced bank profits that could fill the capital holes created by housing losses,”

" it didn’t matter if the modifications failed after a year or so of trial payments or if struggling borrowers placed into doomed trial modifications ended up far worse off, as long as the banks were able to stretch out their pain until their profits returned.”

I have several friends who got screwed by the HAMP ripoff. These motherfuckers didn't care. Obama and friends threw ten million people out on the street and helped the banks screw em further. And people wonder why no one trus the democrats.

Barofsky should know. He was SIGTARP.

https://deadlyclear.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/chapter-8-foaming-the-runway-hero-neil-barofskys-bailout/

In this context a revealing quote from Sorkin on the Dimon kerfluffle:

“I was surprised at how much vitriol there is about the financial crisis 10 years later,” he said of the reaction to Dimon saying last week that he could beat President Donald Trump. “The amount of anger was so palpable and I think that to this very day it pervades the entire conversation.”

No shit, sherlock. Sorkin is a shill for the bankers, that's why he's surprised.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/19/why-jamie-dimon-can-never-be-president-828740

The coastal liberals have no idea how pissed off the poor in flyover country are.

sidd

SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1614 on: September 22, 2018, 01:23:23 AM »

I have several friends who got screwed by the HAMP ripoff. These motherfuckers didn't care. Obama and friends threw ten million people out on the street and helped the banks screw em further. And people wonder why no one trus the democrats.

I do agree with the overall thrust of this post.  Many, many finance people should be serving time.  But I think it's a little overboard to point the finger at Obama for not helping homeowners.  When he took office, the economy was in absolute free-fall.  Quick action was essential.  The Republican Congress simply would not permit a larger package of bailout measures.  We all got a half-measure. 

Preventing a collapse of the banks in a Depression-era scenario of falling dominoes was both essential and quick to do.  Providing more help to homeowners would necessarily be slower, and the Repubes would not authorize the funds.  Congress holds the "power of the purse," not the White House.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1615 on: September 22, 2018, 06:10:57 AM »
Democrats had house and senate majority when obama took office. He could have nationalized the banks. His choice shows you the man, just another chicago machine dem. As soon as i saw who he was appointing, i knew the bankers would walk. But i really didnt think he would screw over the homeowners as badly as he did. But I should've.

The fact that elite like Sorkin still dont see that anger is evidence of the disconnect between the wealthy and the lost. I am so sorry the vitriol surprises him.

That vitriol actually extends across class boundaries to a certain extent, but seems absent among the coastal elites, whose fortunes have largely recovered. Back in 2009 i was in Columbus, Ahia and i wound up in a rich, white, old money part of town for a post football game party. Ran out to the local grocery store on a beer run, flagship store for a midwestern grocery chain, and guess what, Dimon is out there addressing a buncha rich folk about what a good job Chase is doing for the city and the neighbourhood and the nation. He probably thought, quick address, meet and greet, promise some donations, wine tasting and out the door. Poor dumb fuck.

These guys had just lost a lot of money. They weren't poor, but they were hurting.  And they cut loose. About fifteen seconds into it they were interrupting with uncomfortable questions like "Where's the money, Jamie ?" and "How come you still got a job ?" and "How come you ain't in jail ?"

As might be imagined, Jamie made a very quick exit out the back escorted by store security ...

It ain't just the poor who remember. The upper classes, including those who voted obama in, saw exactly who he was gonna bail out, and who got screwed. And thus Hillary lost.

sidd
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 08:51:42 AM by sidd »

oren

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1616 on: September 22, 2018, 08:13:17 AM »
They probably should have bailed out the banks, but they also bailed out the stockholders, the bondholders and the Wall St trading firms, creating lots of injustice as well as a huge moral hazard.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1617 on: September 22, 2018, 08:50:23 AM »
Yeah. And people like Schumer are still sucking off the bankers teats.

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1618 on: September 22, 2018, 11:06:38 AM »
You mustn't say that. Because Trump.
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1619 on: September 22, 2018, 06:37:20 PM »
Democrats had house and senate majority when obama took office. He could have nationalized the banks.
...
The first sentence is true; the 2nd isn't. 

The Senate filibuster still existed (still does for regular bills), and Blue Dog Democrats are not likely to won't support nationalizing the banks, so even a majority in the House might not have supported such a move, and definitely not a simple majority in the Senate. [Note that a Blue Dog Democrat in Florida, Bill Nelson, is in the fight-of-his-live against our very flawed right-wing (but smart) Governor for his Senate seat.  A lefty Democrat may win the governorship, but only because the R-candidate is a nut case outright racist.]

On the other hand, President Obama was so insistent on attempting bi-partisanship that it took ages to get the Affordable Care Act through Congress (with, ultimately, zero R votes), and the ACA suffered in quality for the bi-partisanship effort, to boot.  If the the President had been more "I don't care what the R-opinion is", two or three D projects would/could have been moved through Congress, instead of just one, during his first two years in office.  If the ACA had been passed within 6 months, the Rs might not have won so many seats in the next election... 

Ah, what if's!  The Rs know a thing or two about rushing things through (Kavanaugh, anybody?).  On the other hand, I don't want Ds to act like Rs.  Do you?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 08:29:03 PM by Tor Bejnar »
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SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1620 on: September 22, 2018, 07:21:14 PM »

Ah, what if's!  The Rs know a thing or two about rushing things through (Kavanaugh, anybody?).  On the other hand, I don't want Ds to act like Rs.  Do you?

Agree with the entire post.  Obama tried very hard to work out bipartisan solutions.  The R's took advantage of this approach, and were able to obstruct more successfully.

Preventing a tidal wave of bank failures really was necessary.  Providing genuine assistance to those who were losing their homes and jobs and savings should have had at least as much resources.  But Obama needed legislation passed through Congress to do so, and too many members were never going to go with much more than was passed (or were going to filibuster).

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1621 on: September 22, 2018, 08:46:00 PM »
Senate has little power on fiscal matters, House holds the purse strings.

But more important, FDIC/OCC already have authority to take over banks. No legislation required. They do it all the time, and they did do it a lot in the aftermath, except of course, for the big banks, the ones that owned obama, geithner and the rest. If Obama had appointed someone like Bill Black to treasury instead of that reprehensible lowlife Geithner, fired Bernanke and put Brooksley Born in there, and appointed a real attorney general instead of a lapdog like holder, we might have seen bankers and torturers in jail and relief for the homeowners. Instead Obama gave the crooks and torturers the fast ride on the luxury elevator, and millions of homeowners got the shaft.

Defenses of Obama seem to come from those who didnt get thrown on the streets, who remained, if not  comfortable, at least not destitute amid economic carnage.

And of  course, as we saw, obama had their back. But his enablers cannot see this.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1622 on: September 22, 2018, 08:56:49 PM »
Senate has little power on fiscal matters, House holds the purse strings.

Not really true.  The Constitution only says that spending bills must originate in the House.  This gets worked around commonly, so some spending bills actually do originate in the Senate.

Both houses must approve a budget to go to the President's desk.  The Senate can, and typically does, amend whatever gets approved by the House.   Often, the differences get ironed out in a conference committee before getting a final up or down vote in both houses.  In conference committee, the two houses have equal power.

All final budgets must be approved by a majority in both houses.  They're virtually equal in power over spending.

Correcting erroneous statements isn't "defending Obama," it's setting the record straight.  He made plenty of errors, but there's no need to exaggerate them.


sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1623 on: September 22, 2018, 09:06:29 PM »
1)Reconciliation lets house override senate, they have more votes in joint session, and senate cannot filibuster. So house holds the power of the purse.

2) Senate/house fiscal authorities are not germane to the point the FDIC/OCC already has power to take over banks.

In larger frame, what i see is that reluctance to abandon corporates by the Democratic party will doom them by stripping their erstwhile base.

Keep doin what you've always done and keep getting what you've always got.  Unfortunately the mugs are getting wise. They don't vote party line any more. Perhaps the biggest thing that shocked me in 2016 was that the democrats lost the union rank and file.

sidd

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1624 on: September 22, 2018, 09:12:04 PM »
Thanks, sidd, for your appointment (and the consequences thereof) comments [reply #1704] - another part of President Obama's 'not wanting to be too confrontational' personality (that got him elected in the first place), causing less good to happen than what would have been good for our country (in your and my opinions).  Your comment, however, is somewhat 'over my head', and I cannot vouch for the details you wrote.
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1625 on: September 22, 2018, 09:25:05 PM »
1)Reconciliation lets house override senate, they have more votes in joint session, and senate cannot filibuster. So house holds the power of the purse.
 

Not true at all.  In 2013, "The budget conference committee will consist of 30 lawmakers – 22 from the Senate and 8 from the House of Representatives. . ."  The two houses have virtually equal power over the budget.
http://www.crfb.org/papers/qa-everything-you-need-know-about-budget-conference

As for regulatory agencies shutting down insolvent banks, they certainly did.  I believe the largest insolvent bank was Wachovia.  Wells Fargo was persuaded to purchase all the assets and debts.  Other banks were swallowed by Bank of America.

It might have been better for banks to have been truly nationalized and operated under Federal auspices, but I'm pretty sure that's not within the authority granted to the regulatory agencies.  New legislation would have to be passed.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1626 on: September 22, 2018, 09:36:22 PM »
Re: reconciliation and conference committee.

Whatever comes out of the committee has to be voted on in joint session. The house has far more votes in the joint session. Or do you disagree with arithmetic as well ?

Re: bank breakup "not within the authority granted to the regulatory agencies.  New legislation would have to be passed."

Disagreed. FDIC and OCC have precisely that power. Bair at OCC wanted to start with Citi. She was overruled and gone shortly after.

For cryin out loud they did use that power. Just not on the big criminals. Holder had the power to prosecute. He slow walked and let statute of limitations expire ... with Obama's blessing.

These guys are bought and sold by the banks. Keep defending them. Keep wondering why people call you enforcers of capitalism.

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1627 on: September 22, 2018, 09:41:40 PM »
Update by Martin on CIA democrats at wsws

"Of the 44 districts we identified in March—since grown to 46—military-intelligence candidates have won 30 nominations, a success rate of about 66 percent or two-thirds. That testifies to their extensive support from the Democratic Party leadership, from longtime financial backers of the Democrats, and from the top levels of the national security establishment."

Keep these names in mind. The congressional face of the mil-ind complex.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/09/21/ciad-s21.html

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SteveMDFP

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1628 on: September 22, 2018, 09:46:26 PM »
Re; bank breakup "not within the authority granted to the regulatory agencies.  New legislation would have to be passed."

Disagreed. FDIC and OCC have precisely that power. Bair at OCC wanted to start with Citi. She was overruled and gone shortly after.
What I said is that regulators can, and did, shut down insolvent banks.  They just don't have the power to nationalize them, in the sense of operating under Federal auspices.
Quote
For cryin out loud they did use that power. Just not on the big criminals. Holder had the power to prosecute. He slow walked and let statute of limitations expire ... with Obama's blessing.

These guys are bought and sold by the banks. Keep defending them. Keep wondering why people call you enforcers of capitalism.

sidd

I never defended the failure to prosecute the financial wrongdoers.  I completely agree that rafts of these people should be behind bars.  Holder holds primary responsibility for this failure, but I'm sure Obama did not ask him to be aggressive.  I agree with you on this.

Failure to prosecute may well be setting us up for a repetition of the global financial crisis.  The finance industry appears to have learned nothing.  Prosecutions would have forced them to become more responsible.

I don't defend anyone just for the sake of defending them, or for being contentious.  Accuracy is important, and flaws should not be exaggerated.  Neither should they be minimized.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1629 on: September 22, 2018, 09:53:56 PM »
Re: insolvent banks, nationalization

ALL the big banks were insolvent. Nationalization means the government takes controlling stakes in the the entity. This is perfectly legal, has been done many times

Continental Illinois. Amtrak. Transportaion Security Authority. Just three that come to mind, there are more.

Obama and company were too craven to refuse their paymasters. Can't jeopardize those book contracts, corporate sinecures, sweet, sweet yacht rides in retirement ...

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1630 on: September 23, 2018, 12:24:25 AM »
What follows is not a feel good message for Progressives. Instead it indicates that two of the leading lights of the Progressive movement have been compromised Before Their Election Even Takes Place.




How can candidates that just demonstrated their electability while campaigning without the vote killing restrictions forced on those who feed from the Corporate Trough, throw that in the trash can by campaigning for Party Stalwarts that have voted with the Republican opposition whenever their corporate masters ordered them to?

How many New York Progressives have voted for Cuomo. How many Florida Progressives see Booker as an inspiration?

They could at least wait until they are in office before selling us out. >:(
Terry

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1631 on: October 02, 2018, 10:45:28 PM »
Win for Bernie: Amazon forced to raise minimum wage to $15/hr in the USA and 9.5-10.5 GBP in UK:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45717768

That's one way to deal with oligarchs. I note that $15/hr is nowhere near enuf to live on in far too much of the USA. But, small steps.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1632 on: October 03, 2018, 12:47:07 AM »
Thomas Frank interview at truthout:

" What liberals tend to assume is that small towns in the Midwest have always been on the decline, that nothing can be done for them and that they’re “MAGA”-friendly by nature. What I point out is that this is not so; that hard times are not inevitable, and that Democrats could put this awful trend into reverse were they to take these people’s problems seriously rather than blowing them off."

"Why does the Democratic Party have such a problem relating to the concerns of the working class?

Because that’s not really who they are any more ... The party’s leadership faction has been in the grip of a post-industrial fantasy since the 1980s; they came to identify with Wall Street in the 1990s and with Silicon Valley during Obama’s presidency ... the party’s leadership doesn’t get it. They see their future in the prosperous suburbs and among the winners ..."

https://truthout.org/articles/what-liberals-have-gotten-wrong-about-main-street-usa/

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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1633 on: October 03, 2018, 10:22:36 AM »
Do not, I repeat, do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good:

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1634 on: October 03, 2018, 07:24:16 PM »
Do not, I repeat, do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good:


I'm sympathetic with Kyle's argument, but he misses a whole level of complexity (and mathematics).

If *all* Republicans vote for a nominee (or other piece of legislation on the floor) it passes.  It makes no practical difference how any Democrat votes in such a case.

If a Democrat in a red state needs to bolster his conservative cred by voting for some Trumpian legislation, then he SHOULD do so, as long as it would pass regardless.  That is, as long as he'll vote with his party when it counts.

When it counts (e.g., repealing the Affordable Care Act) all the "blue dogs" all voted the right way, and thank god they did.  If Manchin had been successfully "primaried from his left" at his prior election, then Manchin would have been replaced by a Republican, who would have cast the deciding vote to repeal the ACA.

Legislative success is more important than ideological purity.  Kyle is just simplistic and wrong here.  Ideological purity is worthless if it means losing our health care.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1635 on: October 03, 2018, 08:06:00 PM »
Ideological purity is worthless if it means losing our health care.

Ideological purity (or however you'd like to name your strawman) is of crucial importance if you want to solve AGW. You cannot let Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, and Big X/Y/Z do whatever they please, basically, and expect to have enough 'legislative success' to prevent the world from warming up 4 °C in the next 100-150 years. It may feel good and smart to be moderate and civil, but it's the most stupid thing you can do. If you're serious about something like AGW, that is.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. So, even if it's only in word, you need to draw the line. That's where it starts. And then you have to hope you have enough time to steadfastly stick to your message that you can really curb and overhaul the system that is causing all the big problems.

The things that Perez and other Corporate Democrats are saying and doing, should outrage anyone who is serous about AGW. If you're not outraged and preach incrementalist lesser-evilism, you basically resign yourself and everyone around you to maximal human-induced warming in the next 100-150 years.

Draw the line. Demand something. Don't rearrange deck chairs.
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1636 on: October 03, 2018, 08:19:25 PM »
Ideological purity is worthless if it means losing our health care.

Ideological purity (or however you'd like to name your strawman) is of crucial importance if you want to solve AGW. You cannot let Wall Street, the military-industrial complex, and Big X/Y/Z do whatever they please, basically, and expect to have enough 'legislative success' to prevent the world from warming up 4 °C in the next 100-150 years. It may feel good and smart to be moderate and civil, but it's the most stupid thing you can do. If you're serious about something like AGW, that is.

Power concedes nothing without a demand. So, even if it's only in word, you need to draw the line. That's where it starts. And then you have to hope you have enough time to steadfastly stick to your message that you can really curb and overhaul the system that is causing all the big problems.

The things that Perez and other Corporate Democrats are saying and doing, should outrage anyone who is serous about AGW. If you're not outraged and preach incrementalist lesser-evilism, you basically resign yourself and everyone around you to maximal human-induced warming in the next 100-150 years.

Draw the line. Demand something. Don't rearrange deck chairs.

I agree with every word of this, as far as it goes.
The issue at hand is strategy, not goals.
If we work to defeat Heidi Heitkamp over, say, voting for Kavanaugh, then she won't be *able* to vote with us on climate change.  If she gets replaced with a Republican, than we've made the goal more unattainable.

The Democratic Party united in defense of the ACA.  We may need to push the DNC and DCCC (etc) to prioritize the environment as a litmus test.  We'll fail if we insist on purity over a range of issues. We may need to tolerate pro-lifers, pro-Kavanaughs or others. That's why the video was simplistic and wrong.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1637 on: October 03, 2018, 08:48:18 PM »
We'll fail if we insist on purity over a range of issues.

I agree that we may fail, but we will fail 100% if we don't draw the line and take a radical stance. And that range of issues, are all interconnected. You can't solve that range of issues if you let Wall Street set the economic agenda. You can't solve that range of issues if you let your nation continue to be abused as a vehicle for perpetual war.

The Heitkamps and Manchins in the world don't help you with your small successes. Their function is to stop too much change the donors don't like. Get rid of them, and say you want to be rid of them because they're corrupt, because they're not serving the people, just like the Republicans. They're a cover for everything that is corrupt and careerist within the Democratic Party.

So get rid of them. And then you run on a sincere populist message in those states until you do get somebody in that seat who is willing to serve the people. Because that's your only chance. And you say that it is the only chance. And you keep saying it while things get worse under Republicans. You keep pushing for the things the American people want (medicare for all, ending the wars, free college, reigning in Wall Street, livable wage, etc).

And most of all, you make clear to those in the Democratic Party who don't really have the interest of the majority of the American people at heart, those deplorable working class and poor people, you say to them: The party is over, this is the line we draw, stop crossing it.

Votes and protest, votes and protests, votes and protest. If you can keep that up for 10-20 years, and be consistent instead of 'smart and strategic' (read weak and hypocritical), then maybe, just maybe a sliver of light shows up at the end of a very long tunnel.
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1638 on: October 03, 2018, 10:40:14 PM »
Sanders at it again introduces an anti corp bill:

"introduced a bill that would require the breakup of any financial company that has a total exposure of greater than 3 percent of gross domestic product. "

which would be

" banks are J.P. Morgan, Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo & Co., Goldman and Morgan Stanley. The nonbanks are Berkshire as well as Prudential Financial, MetLife and American International Group."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/03/sen-sanders-wants-to-break-up-jp-morgan-berkshire-hathaway.html

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1639 on: October 03, 2018, 10:59:04 PM »
Sanders at it again introduces an anti corp bill:

"introduced a bill that would require the breakup of any financial company that has a total exposure of greater than 3 percent of gross domestic product. "

which would be

" banks are J.P. Morgan, Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo & Co., Goldman and Morgan Stanley. The nonbanks are Berkshire as well as Prudential Financial, MetLife and American International Group."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/03/sen-sanders-wants-to-break-up-jp-morgan-berkshire-hathaway.html

sidd

This is almost certainly a wise idea, and not necessarily all that radical.  In 1984, AT&T was broken up into regional "Baby Bells."  The result was good for shareholders, even though their single company stock was now shares in multiple corporations.  It was almost certainly good for consumers and for innovation.

This would be a different legal justification, but the result, regardless, would not necessarily be bad for shareholders or the citizenry.  In the event of a corporate failure, it could prevent meltdown of the global financial system.

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1640 on: October 03, 2018, 11:05:21 PM »
Yes, but it takes a Sanders to introduce it, and Corporate Democrats to stop it together with Republicans. Because to some people it is actually very radical, and as Hollywood tries to explain to us: Being radical is very bad, be a good moderate and just bend over.

To get back on-topic again.  :)
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1641 on: October 03, 2018, 11:25:06 PM »
The bill has no chance, whether under republican or democrat majority. Corporates like Schumer, DiFi, Pelosi will see it die, even if democrats win house and senate.

But if it can be forced to a vote, then the corporates will have to stand up and be counted.

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1642 on: October 04, 2018, 05:45:07 AM »
Taibbi interviews Sanders on the breakup bill:

"our four largest financial institutions — J.P. Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo and Citigroup — are on average 80 percent bigger than they were before we bailed them out"

"In an examination of then-Fed chief Alan Greenspan in 2000, Sanders asked ... "What happens if they fail? Who in God’s name is going to bail them out?" ...
“We do not believe that in the event that it turns out that a substantial institution fails that they should be bailed out,” [Greenspan] said"

"It’s a movement to an oligarchy ... six financial institutions have assets equivalent to 54 percent of the GDP ..."

Now here is exactly what neven referred to in "it takes a Sanders to introduce it, and Corporate Democrats to stop it together with Republicans"

"Sanders issued his first attempt at a bill to break up the banks in November 2009 ...  bill was walloped in the Senate, 61-33, with 27 Democrats voting against it ..."

"A consistent problem with these efforts has been a lack of support within the Democratic Party, whose economic policies have been dominated by the same Rubin-Geithner-Lawrence Summers Wall Street-friendly ideology (what one financial analyst friend of mine deems the “Rubino crime family”) for two-and-a-half decades now. It will require massive voter repudiation of these ties on the Democrat side to even begin to take real action on these ideas."

" Let’s hope that this time around, the Democrats realize this in time for the presidential election."

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/taibbi-bernie-sanders-banks-732633/

sidd
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 06:14:33 AM by sidd »

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1643 on: October 04, 2018, 11:34:46 PM »
War. For too many democrats, it's the new black.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/10/03/ciad-o03.html

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1644 on: October 04, 2018, 11:57:57 PM »
How money works: detail of a california campaign:

"  Last month, a group of DSA volunteers unveiled buffywicks.money, a whistle-blowing website designed, in part, to debunk Wicks’ repeated claim that she doesn’t take “corporate money.” "

Checkitout.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/10/04/they-count-on-you-not-knowing-socialists-blow-the-whistle-on-democratic-party-donor-class/

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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1645 on: October 05, 2018, 12:47:43 AM »
War. For too many democrats, it's the new black.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/10/03/ciad-o03.html

sidd


It hurts to read these words, knowing they're penned by Democratic Candidates. If I lived in one of the districts they're running in, I'm not sure that staying home in November would be enough.


The DNC & DCCC need to go, perhaps a new party is the only way forward.


Some of these CIA Democrats will win in this election, and in 20 years will have risen through the ranks until they are calling the shots for the party & possibly the nation.


J.H.  Christ
Where will we find the doves?
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1646 on: October 09, 2018, 06:44:50 AM »
David vs. Goliath: Nolan at splinternews on the democrat running in the reddest district of Texas:

"His opponent, House Armed Services Committee Chairman Mac Thornberry, has raised $1.1 million, and Sagan has raised a little over $20,000."

"On one hand, he’s an old white man with a background in the corporate world; on the other, he uses that technical expertise to argue in detail for single-payer healthcare and leftist pro-worker economic policies to fight inequality. He carries a handgun, but he favors gun control. He’s a military veteran with a decorated family history, but he calls the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq “two magnificently myopic disastrous decisions.” He discusses the dangers of climate change with ranchers. He speaks Spanish. He dismisses Trump’s border wall as the idea of a “dope.” And he is zealous on the topic of good government, with specific plans to do away with gerrymandering, roll back Citizens United, and expand voter registration. He is not a California Democrat or a Chicago Democrat or a New York Democrat. He is an Amarillo Democrat. "

Fight every battle. You win some, you lose some, and some get rained out. But you dress for all of them.

Go, Sagan, go.

https://splinternews.com/the-loneliest-democrat-in-america-1829426449

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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1647 on: October 09, 2018, 02:51:36 PM »
sidd
Nolan has a new fan.
What a way with words!
Terry

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1648 on: October 10, 2018, 01:33:18 AM »
Since we're on the topic of Obama's legacy, and the recent Brazilian election has no thread here. I want to give everyone a gentle reminder what an awful president Obama is. 

https://www.thenation.com/article/how-obamas-normalization-of-the-brazil-coup-prefigured-trumpism/


Now there is a full-blown fascist a hairs-width from becoming the leader of the largest country in south american, equipped with almost unlimited political power.

The never-ending support for right wing authoritarianism in latin american by both the Democratic and Republican parties should be a reminder that imperialism is a core value among the american political establishment. And liberalism is not a pillar for the Democrats, but rather a convenience it can apply to some of it's domestic constituents.

This post would probably fit better in the Empire or foreign interventions thread. But it's good to remind everyone that it's not a problem of Corporate Democrats, it's a problem of an entire political establishment that needs to be eradicated. Yeah!

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1649 on: October 12, 2018, 12:58:36 AM »
Sauce for the goose ...

"Senate Bill 6, which calls for drug testing for Pennsylvanians on welfare and other state assistance programs"

is sauce for the gander: Amendment calls for

"proposal that would require all state lawmakers to be tested for illegal drugs."

Now that's funny.

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2018/10/10/philadelphia-representative-proposes-bill-to-drug-test-all-pennsylvania-lawmakers/

sidd