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Author Topic: But, but, but Germany ....  (Read 11559 times)

SATire

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #100 on: September 22, 2019, 12:45:49 PM »
I will give you an example. ... My college, from Morroco, he has 4 children. So he don't has to pay taxes ont that 50 000.
Lol - what is that example for? He is working, thus not illegal. He gets more money not because he is from Morocco but because he has more children. If you do not like that blame your government for being to social. Maybe vote for vlaams belang next time or the neo-liberals, in case you still can find some...

The term "illegal" is a local US term - it is not valid internationally for cases under convention of Geneva. 

BeeKnees

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #101 on: September 22, 2019, 12:49:19 PM »
The agenda to demonise immigrants is clear.

Totally ignoring taxation of corporate profits that have been generated from having sufficient workers and the multiplier of government spending.

It's shameful.

Alexander555

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #102 on: September 22, 2019, 12:56:37 PM »
SATire: You don't understand what i say. Most arrive here with plenty children. So there is no point where they contribute something to that taxbasis they use. It's the people that contribute to that taxbasis that have to solve the problem. And that's the people that are already in that tax system. All the rest just falls from the sky. And if you look at many immigrants in these big cities. The shops they have, it's all blackmarket. They don't have an annual report. So again, they contribute nothing to that taxbasis. And we will have to safe 12 billion again, so that will be good for the Vlaams Belang. Because it's them who will have to pay for all your illegals.

Alexander555

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #103 on: September 22, 2019, 01:01:50 PM »
BeeKnees: I understand your viewpoint about these big corporations. That they hide their profits. But at least most of them already pay high taxes on their workers. It's not a blackmarket like most business in these immigrant infested places. Because most of them pay no taxes at all, just benefiting as much as they can.

blumenkraft

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #104 on: September 22, 2019, 01:07:53 PM »
Get a grip of how the world works man. You are a shame for your country.

PS: But who cares, eh? The president is just the same...
Refugees welcome

Alexander555

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #105 on: September 22, 2019, 01:11:36 PM »
I feel sorry for you germans.

be cause

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #106 on: September 22, 2019, 01:23:03 PM »
comment deleted .. not even worth the words . b.c.
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 ...

Alexander555

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #107 on: September 22, 2019, 01:36:06 PM »
And these immigrants, illegals, refugees...they eat the taxbasis that pays most of you scientists.

SATire

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #108 on: September 22, 2019, 01:39:22 PM »
SATire: You don't understand what i say. Most arrive here with plenty children.
Alexander, I am German so I do understand very well what you say. It is Racism. Normally it is rated well to have many children - they can pay your social system once you are retired. But in case those children are not of "belgic blood" (does such a thing exist? you are a mixture of many people migrating there earlier)....

oren

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #109 on: September 22, 2019, 02:34:43 PM »
Alexander, you could have 4 children and get the same 70,000. It doesn't have to do with being Moroccan or not, "illegal" or not. And in general I resent your racist/xenophobic undertones.

However, I do think that governments worldwide should not encourage large families (regardless whether "natives" or immigrants), as these are not sustainable on a global basis and are also a strain on a local basis. Most benefits (tax breaks, allowances) should go to the first child, which is also the most difficult to have and raise, both mentally and economically. For the second child there should be less benefits, and that's it. The benefit system that grows with each child (sometimes even more than linearly) can result in certain subcultures in a country that encourage to have more children at the public/government's expense, and over a generation these subcultures grow and have more political power thus reinforcing the benefits cycle.
In my country this is very obvious with the religious orthodox, with families that can even reach 15 children, and political power that is focused on long-term growth of the sector and maximal public money transfers. A similar situation arises with the Bedouin, where the father takes the benefits and maximizes number of children at the expense of the multiple wives (though bigamy is illegal workarounds are easily found when the subculture is so inclined). All this in a country that has one of the highest population densities in the world.
But the same logic applies in all countries - large families should be discouraged and small families of 1-2 children should be encouraged, with both economic incentives and public advisories. Most times it's also good for the country to encourage childless couples to have one child, who will probably get good attention and education.
So instead of raging against immigrants, you should lobby for making the benefits system more rational.

Yuha

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #110 on: September 22, 2019, 02:54:26 PM »
Alexander, all children are a burden to the society until they grow up and start working and paying taxes.

Your Moroccan colleague, on the other hand, did not milk the Belgian society for his first 18 years or so. He came in and probably started working productively and paying taxes almost immediately. In that sense, he might be more profitable to Belgium than you are.

The extra benefits your colleague gets are not for him, they are for his children with the idea that they will pay that money back to the society later.

So the best thing, for Belgian society, is that those children get a good education, are well integrated into the society, and become productive, tax paying citizens.

Alexander555

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #111 on: September 22, 2019, 03:07:52 PM »
They will have to bring the system down anyway. Because it attracts to many people from all over the planet to benefit from it. And it only works as long there is somebody that pays 1 € for 1 € that somebody gets. It bankrupts the country for the moment. And we also have 80 000 people a year that enter the country with a workpermit. The taxes they have to pay are not as high. Nobody wants to pay these high taxes anymore. Just some leftwingers that don't pay taxes.

blumenkraft

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #112 on: September 22, 2019, 03:37:14 PM »
your racist/xenophobic undertones.

... blatant racist/xenophobic attitude.

FIFY. :)
Refugees welcome

Alexander555

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #113 on: September 22, 2019, 04:12:59 PM »
A couple years ago they lowered unemploymend benefits in Holland. I don't live far from the border. The city center here is flooded with dutch speaking africans. They just go after the highest benefits. But but but, we now have a very nice tool to avoid some taxes. And that's the chinese web shops. The quality is getting better fast, the price is only 25 % of the price over here. And we pay sales tax in China. So we don't have to contribute any longer to a system that is destroying itself.

Alexander555

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #114 on: September 22, 2019, 04:20:45 PM »
Alexander, you could have 4 children and get the same 70,000. It doesn't have to do with being Moroccan or not, "illegal" or not. And in general I resent your racist/xenophobic undertones.

However, I do think that governments worldwide should not encourage large families (regardless whether "natives" or immigrants), as these are not sustainable on a global basis and are also a strain on a local basis. Most benefits (tax breaks, allowances) should go to the first child, which is also the most difficult to have and raise, both mentally and economically. For the second child there should be less benefits, and that's it. The benefit system that grows with each child (sometimes even more than linearly) can result in certain subcultures in a country that encourage to have more children at the public/government's expense, and over a generation these subcultures grow and have more political power thus reinforcing the benefits cycle.
In my country this is very obvious with the religious orthodox, with families that can even reach 15 children, and political power that is focused on long-term growth of the sector and maximal public money transfers. A similar situation arises with the Bedouin, where the father takes the benefits and maximizes number of children at the expense of the multiple wives (though bigamy is illegal workarounds are easily found when the subculture is so inclined). All this in a country that has one of the highest population densities in the world.
But the same logic applies in all countries - large families should be discouraged and small families of 1-2 children should be encouraged, with both economic incentives and public advisories. Most times it's also good for the country to encourage childless couples to have one child, who will probably get good attention and education.
So instead of raging against immigrants, you should lobby for making the benefits system more rational.

So you think we can all get 70 000 € a year taxfree ? You have to understand that 50 000 € , comes from the government. Because normaly he would only make 20 000 a year. And that is already plenty for that job compared to other countries. We do have some skills, but no diploma. That money is also under pressure. Because now many people import workers, to avoid these taxes. I think they get taxed in their homecountry, or at the rate of their homecountry. That can easily make  20 000 € a year difference. That's 20 000 € pure profit for the person that imports them.

SATire

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #115 on: September 22, 2019, 05:53:55 PM »
Alexander, I agree that we should have harmonized tax system in EU and elsewhere. The current situation is often like robbery - small countries suck from large ones with a bit of profit and large damage for others.

But those tax systems are not robbery by people, because the people do not make such laws. It is your government to blame, not the person from e.g. Marocco. Freedom of people to move is larger value than freedom of money to move or goods. So globalization should first be beneficial for the people and 2nd for companies. That is also the simple EU rule.

Now we also have global warming - caused by rich northern countries and resulting in first damages in more southern countries. How can we not help them if they have real problems, like e.g. a gay person in Morocco or just any person in Syria, who is attacked from all sides?

If immigrants work on black markets or do illegal things your police/customs/tax officers should do their job. Again blame your government if they ignore such problems - but not generally people from other countries. If you do so please also blame all Belgians for any problem caused by one single Belgian. 

But now this thread should maybe get back to problems caused by Germany, as mentioned in the title. And such problems are plentiful and often related to CO2: No other country spent that much money for such little effect. Just because we like to give the money but do not like to abstain from consumption. Please feel free to learn from our huge mistake.

BeeKnees

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #116 on: September 22, 2019, 06:14:56 PM »
BeeKnees: I understand your viewpoint about these big corporations.

You really don't.
The point is that people working and earning or receiving benefits generate work for others, they spend money on goods and services that generate turnover for other companies and profits for the corporations who in turn pay corporation taxes that feed back into the system. 
Money doesn't stop at one person, regardless of background.  It flows on to the next and feeds back to government to pay taxes.  Governments dont need taxes to spend, they need taxes to control the flow of money. 

Your view that immigration is inherently financially bad and causing economic collapse is provably false and in my opinion is based on prejudice rather than fact.  In my experience the desire to avoid taxes is not an immigrant or local resident thing.  It's based on greed and wealth, with the wealthiest being far more likely to shift sums to tax havens and hide income than the poorest.
At least when a low income person avoids tax they will still have spent the money within the economy, generating tax returns further down the line, unlike those who hide the money indefinitely and to everyones detriment,
 

rboyd

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #117 on: September 23, 2019, 12:08:57 AM »
Please start another thread, maybe call it "But, but, but immigrants" and allow this one to be about the climate policies of, and progress/lack of progress in emission reductions, of Germany.

Florifulgurator

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Re: But, but, but Germany ....
« Reply #118 on: September 23, 2019, 03:05:17 AM »
Neues Wort (new wörd): Klimapillepallekanzlerin.

6/2019:


und jetzt (and now):
"Gute Nacht (good night), Klima-Kanzlerin!"
http://www.tagesschau.de/kommentar/klimakanzlerin-merkel-ende-101.html
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 03:16:40 AM by Florifulgurator »