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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #750 on: July 06, 2017, 06:34:39 PM »
My popcorn is getting stale... 4th July gone, but no Trump fireworks?

Maybe if Trump starts a hot war, you could eat your popcorn before it gets too stale.  Such a hot war would help Trump, as what Congress would impeach a wartime president?

"Trump Is on Course to Get a Hot War Going with North Korea"

http://www.alternet.org/world/trumps-threats-court-war-belligerent-north-korea
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #751 on: July 06, 2017, 07:18:54 PM »
While the obstruction of justice case against Trump appears to be clear cut, Mueller may be waiting to take action until he consults with Congress:

Title: "Open and Shut"

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/07/the_obstruction_of_justice_case_against_trump_is_already_a_slam_dunk.html

Extract: "The obstruction of justice case against Trump is already a slam dunk.

One thing is worth reiterating: The question of prosecutorial discretion on obstruction of justice will not be before Mueller while President Trump remains in office. Given the near-consensus that a sitting president should not be indicted, any court of law in this matter will have to await a private citizen Trump.

So, Mueller will have no reason in the near term to go beyond stating that the president violated the law when he allegedly isolated Comey in the White House and pressured him to drop the Flynn investigation, and that there is a prosecutable case for that conduct. Members of Congress will then have to decide whether the president should be impeached for this crime—a matter of political not prosecutorial discretion."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Archimid

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #752 on: July 06, 2017, 07:30:00 PM »
Can you imagine the world we would live in if we applied the same standard of law to the governors that we apply to the citizens? The horror.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #753 on: July 06, 2017, 09:36:27 PM »
Can you imagine the world we would live in if we applied the same standard of law to the governors that we apply to the citizens? The horror.

The linked website provides a pdf of Eric Freedman's argument that a sitting President can be indicted (which is not the mainstream consensus point of view).  Say a state prosecutor indicts Trump for laundering Russian money (say before he became President), give the separation of powers between the federal and state branches, why should Trump be granted immunity from such an indictment?

Freedman, Eric M., On Protecting Accountability (May 23, 2017). 27 Hofstra Law Review 677 (1999). Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=2972586

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2972586

Abstract: "This article, which argues that a sitting President is liable to indictment, is a slightly edited version of testimony submitted by the author to the Subcommittee on The Constitution, Federalism, and Property Rights of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary on September 9, 1998. See Impeachment or Indictment: Is a Sitting President Subject to the Compulsory Criminal Process? Hearings on S. 105-969 Before the Subcomm. on the Constitution, Federalism, and Property Rights, 105th Cong. 23 (1998)."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #754 on: July 06, 2017, 09:52:27 PM »

Abstract: "This article, which argues that a sitting President is liable to indictment, is a slightly edited version of testimony submitted by the author to the Subcommittee on The Constitution, Federalism, and Property Rights of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary on September 9, 1998. See Impeachment or Indictment: Is a Sitting President Subject to the Compulsory Criminal Process? Hearings on S. 105-969 Before the Subcomm. on the Constitution, Federalism, and Property Rights, 105th Cong. 23 (1998)."
Can the above really be from the same poster that advised me to get with the times & to forget the the past when I referred to Hillary's election defeat late in 2016?
Terry

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #755 on: July 06, 2017, 09:59:32 PM »
Some people (or at least someone) apparently doesn't understand that US law is built up over decades and centuries of case law.  It shouldn't be too surprising that it REQUIRES people to look back at history and prescedent.😉
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #756 on: July 06, 2017, 10:26:23 PM »

Abstract: "This article, which argues that a sitting President is liable to indictment, is a slightly edited version of testimony submitted by the author to the Subcommittee on The Constitution, Federalism, and Property Rights of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary on September 9, 1998. See Impeachment or Indictment: Is a Sitting President Subject to the Compulsory Criminal Process? Hearings on S. 105-969 Before the Subcomm. on the Constitution, Federalism, and Property Rights, 105th Cong. 23 (1998)."
Can the above really be from the same poster that advised me to get with the times & to forget the the past when I referred to Hillary's election defeat late in 2016?
Terry

I also promote rule by law instead of rule by man.  ;)
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #757 on: July 07, 2017, 01:15:21 AM »
Having Sater turn informant on Russian money laundering is bad news for Team Trump:

"Russian mafia figure Felix Sater agrees to assist with money laundering probe into Donald Trump’s NYC hotel"

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/felix-sater-money-laundering-probe-donald-trump-nyc-hotel/3746/

Extract: "Sater has now agreed to assist with an investigation into alleged money laundering involving the Trump SoHo property in New York City, which is controlled by Donald Trump and his children, according to Newsweek"

See also:

"Report: Trump Ex-Business Associate To Assist Kazakh Money Laundering Probe"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/trump-associate-felix-sater-cooperating-kazakh-money-laundering-probe

&

"Felix Sater is cooperating with a money laundering investigation. That’s bad news for Trump."

https://thinkprogress.org/https-thinkprogress-org-felix-sater-news-bad-for-trump-99e4ebe9a1ad

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #758 on: July 07, 2017, 01:25:23 AM »

I also promote rule by law instead of rule by man.  ;)


Did you promote "don't ask, don't tell" when that was the law?


Did you promote the criminalization of marijuana in Colorado, when that was law?


A friend's father did hard time for marrying a black woman in Nevada, lots of people promoted that law.


Remember when Japanese Americans were shipped off to camps, when blacks were returned to southern masters, even in states where slavery itself was a crime? I doubt you'd promote those laws?


Selling alcohol was legal, then selling alcohol was a crime, then selling alcohol was legal, if you paid for a license. Selling to anyone under 21 is a crime, except where it's illegal to sell to anyone under 18. Lot's of about faces there.


Did you ever look at the age of consent laws? Amazing how rapidly girls grow up in some locals, and how retarded their growth is in others.


If Trump should ban any discussion of climate change, would you promote that law?


Harper claimed that the Canadian government held intellectual rights, under law, to all climate research carried out in this country. Would you promote that law?


Bush the Lesser found that under the law torture was legitimate, please don't tell me that you promoted that travesty.


"The law is an ass- an idiot."
C. Dickens

Terry
Parroting platitudes is easy, there should be a law. :)

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #759 on: July 07, 2017, 01:52:25 AM »
Having Sater turn informant on Russian money laundering is bad news for Team Trump:

"Russian mafia figure Felix Sater agrees to assist with money laundering probe into Donald Trump’s NYC hotel"

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/felix-sater-money-laundering-probe-donald-trump-nyc-hotel/3746/

Extract: "Sater has now agreed to assist with an investigation into alleged money laundering involving the Trump SoHo property in New York City, which is controlled by Donald Trump and his children, according to Newsweek"

See also:

"Report: Trump Ex-Business Associate To Assist Kazakh Money Laundering Probe"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/trump-associate-felix-sater-cooperating-kazakh-money-laundering-probe

&

"Felix Sater is cooperating with a money laundering investigation. That’s bad news for Trump."

https://thinkprogress.org/https-thinkprogress-org-felix-sater-news-bad-for-trump-99e4ebe9a1ad


A nice post for The Trump Presidency thread, but OT here unless the Russian Mafia is now suspected of laundering money in NYC to buy votes in Ohio. I love a good conspiracy narrative as well as the next guy, but all we're lacking here is collusion with a sleeper cell of Roswell Aliens who have been nesting in Trump's combover after having harvested Putin's once bountiful locks.


I feel that the Russian Mafia will offer unimpeachable testimony, their reputation is beyond reproach and any thought that they would fabricate evidence for the persecution prosecution just to reduce their own charges is laughable. Ha-Ha


Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #760 on: July 07, 2017, 02:02:05 AM »
Clapper: ‘No Evidence Whatsoever’ Anyone But Russia Meddled In Election

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/clapper-no-evidence-anyone-but-russia-interfered

Quote
Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper on Thursday said he saw no evidence that any entity except Russia interfered in the 2016 election, despite President Donald Trump’s equivocation on the matter.

“As far as others doing this, well, that’s news to me,” Clapper said on CNN. “We saw no evidence whatsoever there was anyone involved in this other than the Russians.”


I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #761 on: July 07, 2017, 02:25:27 AM »
Here we observe Trump engaging in mental gymnastics, continuing to deny Russia's interference in the election and attack on US sovereignty, while also blaming Obama for not doing anything about it.  Seems like he has something to hide?

Trump still doesn't seem to believe his intelligence agencies on Russia

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/07/06/politics/trump-intelligence-agencies-russia/index.html

Nearly six months into his presidency, President Donald Trump declined yet again Thursday to state definitively that Russia meddled in the 2016 US election.

Trump said it might have been Russia, but he raised the prospect that it could have been others, too, clashing with the US intelligence community's assessment that Russian intelligence agencies interfered.

Democrats criticized Trump's latest Russia comments and urged him to bring up the issue of meddling during his meeting with Putin.

"The President's comments today, again casting doubt on whether Russia was behind the blatant interference in our election and suggesting -- his own intelligence agencies to the contrary -- that nobody really knows, continue to directly undermine US interests," said California Rep. Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.

Rep. Ted Lieu, a California Democrat, told CNN's John Berman that anyone who has viewed classified information about Russia's election meddling "knows the President is not telling the truth when he says no one really knows if Russia engaged in the cyber attack last year."

"Russia did it. There's no rational person who looked at evidence and concluded otherwise," Lieu said.
---
"Why did he do nothing about it? He was told it was Russia by the CIA ... and he did nothing about it," Trump said. "They said he choked. I don't think he choked. Well, I don't think he choked. I think what happened was he thought Hillary Clinton was going to win the election and he said let's not do anything about it. Had he thought the other way, he would have done something about it."

Zeug Gezeugt

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #762 on: July 07, 2017, 02:41:58 AM »
Zeug if you think for a split second that Trump's brand of isolationism will lead to less wars, you haven't been paying attention.

As Chomsky was quoted earlier in this thread, Trump is being attacked for the only thing that was of any value in his platform, and that is the 'reset' with Russia, treating them as great power equals rather than as adversaries to be defeated in order to maintain US global hegemony.

Rampant, illegal, planetary-wide militarism has become a bipartisan policy within the US elites these last 16 years, driven by neoconservative (which is literally fascist) ideology, the rule of force being the rule of law. US unipolarity is exceptionally dangerous, especially as the US elites are being forced to accept the coming reality of a multipolar world order. Your domestic economy and your middle classes are being destroyed by never ending global war, the ultimate goal of which is a game of nuclear chicken with Russia and China.

US unipolarity threatens a global nuclear war of annihilation, a Vernichtungskrieg, to ultimately enforce it.

Here's Robert Parry's latest for your edification on these very matters - MSM, Still Living in Propaganda-ville.

 

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #763 on: July 07, 2017, 03:39:22 AM »
A nice post for The Trump Presidency thread, but OT here unless the Russian Mafia is now suspected of laundering money in NYC to buy votes in Ohio.

 Putin may very likely have hooked Trump with loans of dirty money prior to 2016 as a honey trap in order to get Trump to collude with him during the 2016 election.  Who knows what Mueller will be able to prove after Sater has spilled the beans. :D
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #764 on: July 07, 2017, 03:44:28 AM »
Parroting platitudes is easy, there should be a law. :)

Once you have a written law, at least one can work to change it.  With Trump his only "law" is that any information that makes him look bad is "fake".  So yes I prefer rule by law over rule by man; just as I prefer choosing the lesser of two evils (which in my world does not mean that I support evil). :P
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #765 on: July 07, 2017, 04:02:55 AM »
Who knows where the trail in the following story will lead; but w.r.t. Russiagate, we may find out that in this case the cover-up is as bad, or worse, than the crime:

“Someone is making fake classified documents to try to protect Donald Trump from his Russia scandal”

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/fake-classified-documents-trump-russia-scandal/3750/

Extract: “Maddow laid out a surreal new story centered around a supposed classified document that was leaked to her, and the upshot is this: someone out there is trying to sell forged documents that falsely discredit the reporters that are working to expose Donald Trump’s Russian collusion scandal.

This leads to the question of who is that desperate to protect Donald Trump from his Russia scandal. This scheme involves creating fake classified documents about Trump-Russia collusion out of thin air, forging a legitimate identifying code onto it, sending it to major reporters to trick them into reporting it, and then presumably revealing it to have been a fake once it’s been reported. Fortunately, Maddow never fell for it to begin with. Now hopefully her team can figure out who sent her the fake document to begin with – because that could lead the real culprits in the collusion scandal.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #766 on: July 07, 2017, 05:09:08 AM »

Once you have a written law, at least one can work to change it.  With Trump his only "law" is that any information that makes him look bad is "fake".  So yes I prefer rule by law over rule by man; just as I prefer choosing the lesser of two evils (which in my world does not mean that I support evil). :P


You dare to denigrate American Law as Evil?? Fie sir, a pox upon your house.  ::)




On the other hand, did you read Zeug's link by Robert Perry, and the comments?
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/06/msm-still-living-in-propaganda-ville/


He gives a brief history of Western Media's negative portrayal of Putin, a synopsis of the American coup in Ukraine, an explanation of the broad dissemination of the 17 agencies lie, and the pressures that the media is placing on Trump and Putin's coming meeting.


With nuclear war a real if unlikely possibility, the stakes could hardly be higher. This in not a time for those now sitting behind desks once reserved for members of the 4th Estate, to again fill the news with the lies and distortions we've come to expect.


Nuland is back home basking in NeoCon glory, Biden's son is home from his Big Ukraine Venture, even Kerry's chief bundler is back, presumably amassing funding for another deserving Corporate Democrat.


Trump may be having problems finding his limo, but Putin, Tillerson and Lavrov will keep him focused and remind him that out of 17 Intel Agencies, only 4 believe that Russia may have hacked the DNC, and that their most damning evidence is from a foreign source that they don't place much store in.


Terry

pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #767 on: July 07, 2017, 06:04:14 AM »

Once you have a written law, at least one can work to change it.  With Trump his only "law" is that any information that makes him look bad is "fake".  So yes I prefer rule by law over rule by man; just as I prefer choosing the lesser of two evils (which in my world does not mean that I support evil). :P


You dare to denigrate American Law as Evil?? Fie sir, a pox upon your house.  ::)




On the other hand, did you read Zeug's link by Robert Perry, and the comments?
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/06/msm-still-living-in-propaganda-ville/


He gives a brief history of Western Media's negative portrayal of Putin, a synopsis of the American coup in Ukraine, an explanation of the broad dissemination of the 17 agencies lie, and the pressures that the media is placing on Trump and Putin's coming meeting.


With nuclear war a real if unlikely possibility, the stakes could hardly be higher. This in not a time for those now sitting behind desks once reserved for members of the 4th Estate, to again fill the news with the lies and distortions we've come to expect.


Nuland is back home basking in NeoCon glory, Biden's son is home from his Big Ukraine Venture, even Kerry's chief bundler is back, presumably amassing funding for another deserving Corporate Democrat.


Trump may be having problems finding his limo, but Putin, Tillerson and Lavrov will keep him focused and remind him that out of 17 Intel Agencies, only 4 believe that Russia may have hacked the DNC, and that their most damning evidence is from a foreign source that they don't place much store in.


Terry

So everything Trump Russia Putin is fiction created by Dems and bitter intel agents, but Hillary Clinton  sold the uranium to Russia and exploits kids in a pizza parlor?

Zeug Gezeugt

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #768 on: July 07, 2017, 06:21:49 AM »
So everything Trump Russia Putin is fiction created by Dems and bitter intel agents, but Hillary Clinton  sold the uranium to Russia and exploits kids in a pizza parlor?

Russiagate allegations are de facto fiction until proven de jure, so yes to query 1.

The uranium deal is well documented, as is BC's speaking fee, so query 2 is fact.

Query 3 however was rather hilarious fiction, there may well be pedophile networks within the moneyed elites but my favourite was bringing infamous Serbian performance artist Marina Abramovich in as evidence of satanism. Pure Reddit gold!

pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #769 on: July 07, 2017, 03:55:47 PM »
So everything Trump Russia Putin is fiction created by Dems and bitter intel agents, but Hillary Clinton  sold the uranium to Russia and exploits kids in a pizza parlor?

Russiagate allegations are de facto fiction until proven de jure, so yes to query 1.

The uranium deal is well documented, as is BC's speaking fee, so query 2 is fact.

Query 3 however was rather hilarious fiction, there may well be pedophile networks within the moneyed elites but my favourite was bringing infamous Serbian performance artist Marina Abramovich in as evidence of satanism. Pure Reddit gold!

The Clinton uranium conspiracy theory is one of the favorites across the right wing and pro Trump crowd, and TerryM, but it has been thoroughly debunked.

https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2017/02/16/trump-team-uses-debunked-right-wing-media-smear-deflect-russia-scandals/215374

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/16/trump-claims--falsely--that-clinton-gave-russia-20-of-us-uranium.html

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/10/a-false-corruption-claim/

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2017/feb/16/donald-trump-repeats-his-mostly-false-claim-about-/

The same coalition that believes in the uranium conspiracy theory will not accept or acknowledge the forthcoming results of the investigations into Vlad Putin's assault on US sovereignty and the Trump team's collusion.  There could be incontrovertible forensic evidence, and this coalition will not accept it, because it doesn't fit a preordained narrative and confirmation bias.

If the US Intel agencies are proven wrong about Russia's interference, and the Special Counsel office agrees and completely exonerates Trump and his team, then I will certainly accept those conclusions.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 06:18:22 PM by pileus »

pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #770 on: July 07, 2017, 04:04:55 PM »
Here we have an update from Murdoch owned Wall Street Journal on Special Counsel Mueller's recruitment of team members.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller Taps Broad Range of Talent for Russia Probe

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/special-counsel-robert-mueller-taps-broad-range-of-talent-for-russia-probe-1499383873

In a few weeks on the job, special counsel Robert Mueller has assembled an elite team of lawyers with expertise in national security, public corruption and financial crimes, suggesting he is taking a broad view of his mandate to probe Russia’s alleged meddling in the 2016 election.

Since being tapped by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein in May, Mr. Mueller has added 15 attorneys to his staff as well as an undisclosed number of administrative employees, according to spokesman Peter Carr.
---
“He is assembling a pretty darned impressive cohort of government lawyers,” said Stephen I. Vladeck, a professor at University of Texas School of Law. “He is taking the absolute cream of the crop when it comes to government lawyers with relevant experiences.”
---
Mr. Mueller’s office has taken over the criminal probes of Michael Flynn, Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser who resigned weeks into the job amid increasing fire over his conflicting statements about his contacts with Russian officials, and Paul Manafort, his former campaign manager, according to people familiar with the investigation.

Both are being investigated for potential violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act as a result of their work for foreign interests, and prosecutors have separately subpoenaed business records of Mr. Flynn and the bank records of Mr. Manafort, according to the people, The Wall Street Journal has reported.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #771 on: July 07, 2017, 04:48:18 PM »
Trump may be having problems finding his limo, but Putin, Tillerson and Lavrov will keep him focused and remind him that out of 17 Intel Agencies, only 4 believe that Russia may have hacked the DNC, and that their most damning evidence is from a foreign source that they don't place much store in.

My grandmother use to quote an old German saying: "If wishes were horses then beggars could ride".  Keep-up your wishful thinking and Team Trump will deliver you and the rest of us into the waiting arms of the kleptocrats. :o
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #772 on: July 07, 2017, 08:26:33 PM »

My grandmother use to quote an old German saying: "If wishes were horses then beggars could ride".  Keep-up your wishful thinking and Team Trump will deliver you and the rest of us into the waiting arms of the kleptocrats. :o


We used to pass on an old Dutch tale of a man that had been asleep for 20 years.
If you fear that we may soon be delivered into the arms of the kleptocrats, I'd first ask that you trim back your beard, then look at the world around you.


Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #773 on: July 08, 2017, 03:33:09 AM »
Nothing to do with Russiagate, but this is a striking colorized image of Rasputin by Marina Amaral. 

Worth a few minutes if you are a history buff or enjoy artistic expression.

http://www.marinamaral.com

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #774 on: July 08, 2017, 07:35:00 AM »
If you fear that we may soon be delivered into the arms of the kleptocrats, I'd first ask that you trim back your beard, then look at the world around you.

I think that I am a long ways away from being a modern-day Rip van Winkle; & I know that not all oligarchs are kleptocrats (kleptocrats are the ones who want to turn the masses into beggars, just look at the income disparity in Russia in the linked article below).

"If You Think Wealth Disparity Is Bad Here, Look At Russia"

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/10/10/231446353/if-you-think-wealth-disparity-is-bad-here-look-at-russia

Extract: "... the U.S. has nothing on Russia, according to a new report by investment bank Credit Suisse.

Russia, the bank says, has the highest rate of inequality in the world – barring some small Caribbean islands."


“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #775 on: July 08, 2017, 08:25:33 AM »

Russia, the bank says, has the highest rate of inequality in the world – barring some small Caribbean islands."


That report is from 2013 Rip, and claims that:
the wealthiest Americans earned more than 19 percent of all household income last year.
which seems suspect to me, vague, but suspect.
The Russian economy was certainly hurt badly in 2008, and as I understand it the sanctions from 2014 have had both positive and negative effects. This is the first place I've seen that indicated that Russian wages had taken a hit since Putin took over, most speak of huge gains such as a doubling of real disposable income between 1996 and 2005, according to the Guardian.

Again I have no idea how Russia is functioning today under sanctions, but what I have read is that the populous blames outside factors & Putin enjoys a popularity unmatched by most western leaders.

Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #776 on: July 08, 2017, 05:15:02 PM »
That report is from 2013 Rip

Here is a 2017 report, which indicates that there is a sense that the inequity in Russia is beginning to stir internal anger within Russia.  This is the path that Trump is trying to drag the USA, and the rest of the world, down:

"Unequal Russia: is anger stirring in the global capital of inequality?"

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/apr/25/unequal-russia-is-anger-stirring-in-the-global-capital-of-inequality

Extract: "With the richest 10% owning 87% of all the country’s wealth, Russia is rated the most unequal of the world’s major economies.

A recent report by Credit Suisse showed that Russia is the most unequal of all the world’s major economies. The richest 10% of Russians own 87% of all the country’s wealth, according to the report, compared with 76% in the US and 66% in China. According to another measure, by VTB Capital, 1% of the Russian population holds 46% of all the personal bank deposits in the country.
Many Russians believe such rampant inequality – at least in part caused by corruption – might cause “kitchen grumbling”, but never serious political upheaval. However, last month the biggest protests to hit Russia for several years saw an estimated 60,000 people on the streets of nearly 80 cities. While the numbers are small as a percentage of the whole population, there is a sense that anger may be stirring."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #777 on: July 08, 2017, 09:05:50 PM »
Russiagate is just a subset of Russia's wider effort to export kleptocracy, see the linked associated articles for backup:

Title: "Weaponizing Kleptocracy: Putin’s Hybrid Warfare"

https://www.hudson.org/research/13666-weaponizing-kleptocracy-putin-s-hybrid-warfare

Extract: "The debate about whether Putin is a master strategist or just a smart tactician is far from over. There is, however, more widespread agreement that the Kremlin seeks to sow divisions within the West (especially in Europe), to destroy NATO, to build a network of anti-Western states, and by all these means to marginalize the United States and the West in order to achieve regional hegemony and global power.
In many ways, Russia is successfully implementing this agenda. Hence the goal of this paper is to systematically explore how kleptocracy fits into Putin’s global strategy, the roots of the kleptocratic dimension of Russia’s hybrid warfare, and the ways in which it increases the risk of a conventional war between Russia and the West."

Title: "Trump Builds Kleptocracy as Evidence of Russian Collusion Piles Up"

http://atlanticsentinel.com/2017/03/trump-builds-kleptocracy-as-evidence-of-russian-collusion-piles-up/

Extract: "The American president imitates his Russian counterpart in bending the law to benefit himself and his friends."

&

Title: "Kleptocracy: Russia’s Most Successful Export"

http://kleptocracyinitiative.org/2017/01/kleptocracy-russias-most-successful-export/

Extract: "Nowadays it is generally accepted that Russian support for populist anti-EU parties poses a threat to Europe; meanwhile, the terms ‘mafia state’ and ‘kleptocracy’ have become increasingly widespread definitions of Putin’s Russia. However, one thing is still missing: An understanding that the Kremlin reserves the right not only to pursue an undemocratic, mafia-style system at home, but is actively trying to manufacture similar regimes all over the world. How? By exporting kleptocracy."

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #778 on: July 08, 2017, 09:22:10 PM »
For those who do not know what I mean by a kleptocracy, see the linked articles:

Title: "Five myths about kleptocracy"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-kleptocracy/2017/01/04/42b30d72-c78f-11e6-8bee-54e800ef2a63_story.html?utm_term=.06aa7be77084

Extract: "Every country suffers from corruption, but not every country is a kleptocracy. Kleptocracy, or “rule by thieves,” arises when a country’s elite begin to systematically steal from public funds on a vast scale. They do so by undermining democracy and the legal system, gaining control over vital economic assets (usually the banking and natural-resource sectors), and ultimately amassing unimaginable wealth."

&

Title: "Trump and the Path Toward Kleptocracy"

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-22/trump-and-the-path-toward-kleptocracy

Extract: "The Trump administration, its personnel and early practices, resembles nothing so much as a kleptocratic network of the type seen in many developing countries and post-Soviet states. No, I am not implying that Trump is about to turn the U.S. into a banana republic. But Americans would do well to scrutinize nascent changes in the ways the most powerful sectors of our society are interacting."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #779 on: July 08, 2017, 10:10:29 PM »
Let me see, publicly egg on Russia to hack the elections and after the win, forgive everything. The collusion is clear. Trump will destroy the American security apparatus and delivery it into the hands of Putin.  He is doing it in such an in your face way that people are dumbfounded.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #780 on: July 08, 2017, 10:38:05 PM »
Could I recommend:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality


The most recent compilation of income inequality I could find that includes the Gini index, the ratio between the top 10% to the bottom 10%, the same at 20% as well as the UN's figures, the CIA's figures, and the World Bank's figures.
When even the CIA agrees that there is more inequality in the US of than in Putin's Russia, it's hard to argue that the data was skewed in Russia's favor.


Terry
PS - Canada does very well in comparison, kind of fun looking up your own country.  :)
I had looked at the Gini index before moving to Canada and had been encouraged by what I'd seen.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #781 on: July 08, 2017, 11:33:16 PM »
So who will be the big losers as RussiaGate continues to blow up on Donnie & friends?

1.  Donnie and his comrades in the administration

2.  FOX News:  Yes....TASS will pay a price.  FOX again shod it doesn't care one iota about finding the truth...they only care about their alt right agenda, and allowing sexual harassment at FOX. 

3.  Mitch McConnel.  He has had numerous chances to rebuke Trump and he didn't take them.  Sorry Mitch.

4.  Paul Ryan.  Ditto

5.  Other Republicans like Ted Cruz and the Texas crazies.  Plenty of other Republicans are going to pay a heavy price as well.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #782 on: July 08, 2017, 11:37:19 PM »
For those who do not know what I mean by a kleptocracy, see the linked articles:

Title: "Five myths about kleptocracy"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-kleptocracy/2017/01/04/42b30d72-c78f-11e6-8bee-54e800ef2a63_story.html?utm_term=.06aa7be77084

Extract: "Every country suffers from corruption, but not every country is a kleptocracy. Kleptocracy, or “rule by thieves,” arises when a country’s elite begin to systematically steal from public funds on a vast scale. They do so by undermining democracy and the legal system, gaining control over vital economic assets (usually the banking and natural-resource sectors), and ultimately amassing unimaginable wealth."

I understand the distinction you're trying to introduce, and it is also used in the RealNewsNetwork videos I've posted, wherein Paul Jay explains that there are moderate oligarchs who understand that there has to be some sort of social contract because it guarantees a stability that is needed for their wealth to continue to grow, whereas the more Randian oligarchs are so much driven by greed and/or ideology that they are intent on grabbing power/wealth, no matter what the cost is.

Still, there is one thing that binds both oligarchs and kleptocrats: Their wealth has to grow and knows no limits. And they both, in one way or another, try to control the system. Oligarchy/polyarchy or kleptocracy, they're both far removed from democracy.

Should we settle for the lesser evil? In exchange for our freedom?

Sorry for the off-topic.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #783 on: July 09, 2017, 01:05:17 AM »
The fuse is NOT infinite.

Tick.....tick.....tick.....tick

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #784 on: July 09, 2017, 01:13:48 AM »
Should we settle for the lesser evil? In exchange for our freedom?

Sorry for the off-topic.

One does not settle for anything. When one chooses the lesser of two evils today, ones does it again tomorrow and every day after that.  Hegel pointed out that the goal of the dialectic process was to iterate towards the elimination of '-ism' (or incomplete truths, including corporatism).  If you think that you can jump in one giant step to utopia without iteration then you are underestimating the complexity of the challenges that we are facing as currently we are iterating towards dystopia.

Edit: It only makes sense that to start moving forward one must first stop moving backwards.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 01:48:31 AM by AbruptSLR »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #785 on: July 09, 2017, 01:38:23 AM »
What a tangled web Team Trump has woven:

“Trump Team Met With Lawyer Linked to Kremlin During Campaign”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html


Extract: “Two weeks after Donald J. Trump clinched the Republican presidential nomination last year, his eldest son arranged a meeting at Trump Tower in Manhattan with a Russian lawyer who has connections to the Kremlin, according to confidential government records described to The New York Times.

The previously unreported meeting was also attended by Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, as well as the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, according to interviews and the documents, which were outlined by people familiar with them.

While President Trump has been dogged by revelations of undisclosed meetings between his associates and Russians, this episode at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, is the first confirmed private meeting between a Russian national and members of Mr. Trump’s inner circle during the campaign. It is also the first time that his son Donald Trump Jr. is known to have been involved in such a meeting.”

Also see the related Palmer Report article:

“Collusion bombshell: Donald Trump team secretly met with Kremlin lawyer during campaign”

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/collusion-bombshell-donald-trump-kremlin-lawyer-campaign/3769/

Extract: “Key members of Donald Trump’s family and campaign staff held a meeting with a top Kremlin lawyer during the campaign, then lied about it, according to an explosive new report from the New York Times (link) – and incredibly, Donald Trump Jr is now admitting to the meeting but is insisting that it was about the adoption of Russian kids.”
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #786 on: July 09, 2017, 07:26:30 AM »
Should we settle for the lesser evil? In exchange for our freedom?

Sorry for the off-topic.

One does not settle for anything. When one chooses the lesser of two evils today, ones does it again tomorrow and every day after that.  Hegel pointed out that the goal of the dialectic process was to iterate towards the elimination of '-ism' (or incomplete truths, including corporatism).  If you think that you can jump in one giant step to utopia without iteration then you are underestimating the complexity of the challenges that we are facing as currently we are iterating towards dystopia.

Edit: It only makes sense that to start moving forward one must first stop moving backwards.

I agree. We must not forget the experiences of others and move forward.

I must say I'm rather perplexed as to how little justice has been brought to light when Russia did interfere with the election. TBD I hope but, still, perplexed as to why nothing has been done to dissuade future attempts on American political (voting) processes. the number one thing is how money drives our elections - just insane amounts and that just means that candidate will have to curry favors to the donors.

At least G20 is distancing itself from Trump. (Normally that's bad).

And at least our economy hasn't tanked or declared a new war. Bleh. I fear one or both will happen by years end. That's not even factoring in the higher risks from climate change or energy source shifts.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #787 on: July 09, 2017, 04:31:18 PM »
I must say I'm rather perplexed as to how little justice has been brought to light when Russia did interfere with the election. TBD I hope but, still, perplexed as to why nothing has been done to dissuade future attempts on American political (voting) processes. the number one thing is how money drives our elections - just insane amounts and that just means that candidate will have to curry favors to the donors.

In addition to Russian interference, gerrymandering, and voter suppression; in the 2016 election Trump (and the far right GOP) benefited disproportionately, and continues to benefit, from Dark Money as illustrated by the following linked websites and articles:

"Dark Money Watch"

http://www.darkmoneywatch.org/

Extract: "45 Committee spent over $21 million supporting Trump in the 2016 election.  Its donors are unknown."

&

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/06/politics/45-committee-website-hacked/

Extract: "The 45 Committee -- a PAC started by mega-donors Todd Ricketts and Sheldon Adelson -- released a new ad pushing Trump's Cabinet picks this week, while some key members like education nominee Betsy DeVos hang in peril of being rejected in the Senate."

&

"Conservative Dark Money Helps Georgia Congressional Candidate Narrow Spending Gap With Ossoff"

http://www.darkmoneywatch.org/gop-dark-money-helps-georgia-congressional-candidate-narrow-spending-gap-with-ossoff/

Extract: "A MapLight analysis found outside sources have added $8.2 million to Ossoff’s effort. Conservative independent groups have countered with $18.5 million in spending to support Handel, narrowing the gap between the two candidates to $9 million."

Also see the website for MapLight.org:

https://maplight.org/

Extract: "MapLight revealing money's influence on politics"

"White House Relied Upon Dark Money Lobbyist to ‘Quarterback’ Gorsuch Confirmation"

https://maplight.org/story/white-house-relied-upon-dark-money-lobbyist-to-quarterback-gorsuch-confirmation/

Extract: "A lobbyist with extensive ties to secretive nonprofit organizations served as the “quarterback” for  the successful nomination of Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch, according to records reviewed by MapLight.

Rob Collins, a Washington lobbyist and Republican strategist, claims on his professional biography at the S-3 Group that he worked with more than a half-dozen White House offices, the Department of Justice, the U.S. Senate and more than 20 advocacy organizations to to ensure Gorsuch’s confirmation."

&

"Dark Money Organization Emerges As Major Financier for GOP Legislative, Electoral Agendas"

https://maplight.org/story/dark-money-organization-emerges-as-major-financier-for-gop-legislative-electoral-agendas/

Extract: "A secretive nonprofit closely linked to House Speaker Paul Ryan has begun playing a pivotal role in supporting Republican policies and candidates since the November 2016 election, a MapLight analysis has found.

The American Action Network (AAN) has donated more than $6.5 million to the Congressional Leadership Fund (CLF) -- a super PAC that has been the top-spending outside organization this year, pouring almost $10 million into GOP special election victories in Georgia and Montana. The AAN has been the super PAC’s largest donor, accounting for more than 60 percent of its funding since the 2016 election."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #788 on: July 09, 2017, 06:06:39 PM »
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/liberal-fever-swamps/530736/

The Palmer Report is a sketchy source and has been for a while.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #789 on: July 09, 2017, 08:03:03 PM »
The Palmer Report is a sketchy source and has been for a while.

While I agree that the Palmer Report is biased left, that does not mean that it is wrong and The Atlantic is right.  In the linked article Palmer took the time to defend himself, from one of The Atlantic's attacks on him and the left in general (needless to say politics is complicated, as in a Hegelian dialectic a thesis leads to an antithesis followed by a synthesis, only to be repeated):

“The Atlantic loses its mind, dishonestly attacks the entire Resistance to try to sabotage Palmer Report”

http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/atlantic-loses-mind-attacks-entire-left-palmer-report/3727/

Extract: “As Palmer Report continues to grow in audience size and stature, at least once a week some competing news site publishes a desperate fictional attack piece about me, in the hope of sabotaging my reputation. These stunts tend to backfire on the publications that try it, and I’ve learned to ignore most of it, because I’m too busy focusing on doing my job. But  a new attack piece from The Atlantic is so far beyond the pale that it attacks just about everyone on the left in an attempt at smearing me – and that’s where I draw the line.

The article in question from The Atlantic is titled “How the Left Lost Its Mind,” and the entire piece is a thinly veiled attempt at harming Palmer Report’s reputation. But it starts off by insulting the Women’s March with a tinfoil-laden pink hat, in apparent attempt at slamming the entire Resistance for daring to read Palmer Report. Then it quickly moves on to wildly misrepresenting an instance where Democratic Senator Ed Markey used Palmer Report as a source, dishonestly sabotaging Markey’s reputation in the process."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #790 on: July 09, 2017, 08:38:41 PM »
Trump tweet.

"Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded.."

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #791 on: July 09, 2017, 08:48:59 PM »

"I'm DUMBFOUNDED" Sen. Lindsey Graham ANGRY Reaction To Trump's Putin TWEET

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #792 on: July 09, 2017, 08:50:03 PM »
Trump tweet.

"Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded.."

Which immediately brings to mind: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #793 on: July 09, 2017, 08:58:01 PM »
The Atlantic doesn't think highly of The Palmer report, frequently quoted in this thread on Russiagate issues:

"The Palmer Report, the publication of record for anti-Trump conspiracy nuts who don’t care about the credibility of the record"

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/liberal-fever-swamps/530736/

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #794 on: July 09, 2017, 09:18:45 PM »
The Atlantic doesn't think highly of The Palmer report, frequently quoted in this thread on Russiagate issues:

The linked Media Bias/Fact Check article indicates that while the Palmer Report has a strong liberal bias, it “... is typically well sourced and usually points to credible sources.”

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/palmer-report/

Extract: “The Palmer Report is a news and opinion blog/website created by Bill Palmer a current writer and owner of Daily News Bin.  The Palmer Report is typically well sourced and usually points to credible sources.  However, there is a very strong liberal bias in reporting and story content.  The Palmer Report uses loaded words and sensational headlines that don’t always reflect the content of the article.”
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #795 on: July 09, 2017, 11:27:39 PM »
More fodder for Mueller's investigation of Team Trump:

Title: “Trump’s Son Met With Russian Lawyer After Being Promised Damaging Information on Clinton”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html?referer=https://t.co/KyaqGWOmFD

Extract: “President Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign, according to three advisers to the White House briefed on the meeting and two others with knowledge of it.

The meeting was also attended by his campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kushner only recently disclosed the meeting, though not its content, in confidential government documents described to The New York Times.”

The accounts of the meeting represent the first public indication that at least some in the campaign were willing to accept Russian help.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #796 on: July 10, 2017, 03:50:57 AM »
For those who wonder what is happening, Mueller is letting his actions do his talking; which is why to date he has only hired prosecutors and not investigative lawyers:

“Special Counsel Mueller Lets His Actions Do The Talking: 15 Hires, More to Come”

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/08/535813901/special-counsel-mueller-lets-his-actions-do-the-talking-15-hires-more-to-come

Extract: “The former FBI director and decorated U.S. Marine has submitted a budget and quietly hired an all-star team that includes 15 Justice Department prosecutors. And, a spokesman for Mueller said, he's not done bringing on new lawyers.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #797 on: July 10, 2017, 04:23:35 AM »
More fodder for Mueller's investigation of Team Trump:

Title: “Trump’s Son Met With Russian Lawyer After Being Promised Damaging Information on Clinton”

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html?referer=https://t.co/KyaqGWOmFD

Extract: “President Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign, according to three advisers to the White House briefed on the meeting and two others with knowledge of it.

The meeting was also attended by his campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kushner only recently disclosed the meeting, though not its content, in confidential government documents described to The New York Times.”

The accounts of the meeting represent the first public indication that at least some in the campaign were willing to accept Russian help.”

It's an incredibly damaging development for Trump Sr/Jr and the immeditate orbit.  WaPo has an assessment of Don Jr's statement on the matter.

Donald Trump Jr.’s stunningly incriminating statement to the New York Times

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/09/donald-trump-jr-s-stunningly-incriminating-statement-to-the-new-york-times/

Donald Trump Jr. has made a potentially damaging New York Times report much, much worse.

The Times on Sunday reported that the president's eldest son was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer at Trump Tower in New York on June 9, 2016.

As Times reporters Jo Becker, Matt Apuzzo and Adam Goldman explained, Trump Jr.’s motivation for agreeing to the meeting “points to the central question in federal investigations of the Kremlin’s meddling in the presidential election: whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians. The accounts of the meeting represent the first public indication that at least some in the campaign were willing to accept Russian help.”

Paul Manafort, the campaign’s chairman at the time, and Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law and adviser, also attended.
---
Read that last part again: “the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting.”

Trump Jr. confirmed that he went into the meeting expecting to receive information from the Russian lawyer that could hurt Clinton. That is a breathtaking admission.

Hefaistos

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #798 on: July 10, 2017, 08:39:26 AM »
The Atlantic doesn't think highly of The Palmer report, frequently quoted in this thread on Russiagate issues:

The linked Media Bias/Fact Check article indicates that while the Palmer Report has a strong liberal bias, it “... is typically well sourced and usually points to credible sources.”

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/palmer-report/

Extract: “The Palmer Report is a news and opinion blog/website created by Bill Palmer a current writer and owner of Daily News Bin.  The Palmer Report is typically well sourced and usually points to credible sources.  However, there is a very strong liberal bias in reporting and story content.  The Palmer Report uses loaded words and sensational headlines that don’t always reflect the content of the article.”

The latest update from Media Bias Fact Check says:
"Update 4/18/17: ...we move the Palmer Report to our Questionable Source list due to lack of sourced evidence, numerous false and unproven reports from fact checkers and extreme bias in reporting."

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #799 on: July 10, 2017, 12:16:45 PM »
For Donnie Jr....Donnie.....and the rest of the pond scum....things are not looking so good.😫

That's what happens whe people lie.  Eventually it comes back at them like a boomerang.  Damn that truth....it just never goes away.  Sorry Donnie...🕵️‍♀️
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