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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #150 on: May 06, 2017, 11:07:23 PM »
Terry,

If you think that my last post linking to an article by Slate is biased to the left, here is a more right-leaning article entitled: “How Russia stumbled into a winning strategy to undermine the West”:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/03/29/how-russia-stumbled-into-a-winning-strategy-to-undermine-the-west/

Extract: “The tables have turned. The threat from the West that Russia saw in the mid-2000s has now been molded to a seemingly successful counter-strategy. It is targeting the ideological foundation of the West through political, ideological, and informational operations with relative impunity. And it seems to be going well.”

Best,
ASLR
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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #151 on: May 06, 2017, 11:27:06 PM »
Maybe we should take this to the But, but, but PUTIN thread, as this is more about Russia/Putin  in general than Russiagate.
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #152 on: May 07, 2017, 12:35:16 AM »
Wikileaks apparently not involved & a very different timetable for dumping the data than what Hillary experienced.

The linked article is entitled: "US far-right activists, WikiLeaks and bots help amplify Macron leaks: researchers"; which indicates that WikiLeaks is involved and that botnets are compressing the timetable for the effectiveness of such Russian efforts to manipulate the French election just as they did for the US election:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-election-cyber-idUSKBN1820QO?il=0
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #153 on: May 07, 2017, 12:35:29 AM »
So, because slate says it's true, I'm supposed to believe it?


Why would Biden tell the truth when his son is up to his elbows raping Ukraine?


When someone claims that Hansen said we'll all die next year, and I ask for proof. I don't accept what someone read at Tony's site & I don't accept what Pruitt said.
You need to show what Hansen said, when he said it, and where he said it - with a link.


Terry



« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 02:01:41 PM by TerryM »

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #154 on: May 07, 2017, 01:04:12 AM »
So, because slate says it's true, I'm superposed to believe it?


Why would Biden tell the truth when his son is up to his elbows raping Ukraine?


When someone claims that Hansen said we'll all die next year, and I ask for proof. I don't accept what someone read at Tony's site & I don't accept what Pruit said.
You need to show what Hansen said, when he said it, and where he said it - with a link.


Terry

Terry,

Your not very good at respecting Neven's request to take this discussion to the But, but, but Putin thread.

ASLR
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #155 on: May 07, 2017, 01:49:22 AM »
So, because slate says it's true, I'm superposed to believe it?


Why would Biden tell the truth when his son is up to his elbows raping Ukraine?


When someone claims that Hansen said we'll all die next year, and I ask for proof. I don't accept what someone read at Tony's site & I don't accept what Pruit said.
You need to show what Hansen said, when he said it, and where he said it - with a link.


Terry

Terry,

Your not very good at respecting Neven's request to take this discussion to the But, but, but Putin thread.

ASLR


You're right & I've apologized on the other thread. I posted my reply before looking at the posts that had followed.


Back on topic.


Who do you believe leaked the DNC data?


We know the leaks started after Podesta gave his password to a phrendly phish.
We know that there were elements within the DNC that expressed hostility after BernieGate.
We know that the brotherly IT team from (Saudi)? has been charged with something.
We know Wikileaks says it came from a private, as opposed to a governmental source.
We know that Putin says it wasn't Russian intelligence.
We know that Putin believed that Hillary's election would be a disaster for world peace. (his words)


I think that the data beginning with Podesta's password leak & ending when passwords were changed is a very strong indication that the successful fishing expedition proceeded through this wide open portal. Further, both the means of entry & their inability to continue after the password was changed indicate that these weren't even professionals, let alone government level spooks. I believe I could have pulled this of and I'm a klutz WRT the internet.


If this is true it eliminates the Bernie supporters, as they would still have access.
The IT team, they're professionals & would still have had access.
Foreign or domestic spies, as they don't need to go fishing when there is work to be done.


Is it within the realm of possibility that Assange is telling the truth?
Does Assange have a history of lying, or is his honesty so crucial to his work that he really can't lie without destroying everything he's built?


Russiagate is nothing other than a way to challenge Trump's credibility while absolving the DNC from any responsibility for losing the election.
Don't bother "following the money", simply ask who stands to benefit.


Terry

mati

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #156 on: May 07, 2017, 02:27:30 AM »
so terry
russiagate is an elaborate plot carried out by elite operatives in the DNC?
Hmm very interesting, can you elaborate more please?
and so it goes

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #157 on: May 07, 2017, 02:36:17 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "James Comey accidentally makes ironclad case for independent Russia probe", and it makes the case for the need for a Special Prosecutor.

http://shareblue.com/james-comey-accidentally-makes-ironclad-case-independent-russia-probe/

Extract: "The Trump/Russia investigation was a central subject of the Senate Judiciary Committee’s hearing on oversight of the FBI, at which FBI Director James Comey testified for several hours.

While Republicans tried to deflect attention away from the FBI’s ongoing investigation into possible coordination between Donald Trump’s campaign and the Russians, Democrats uncovered key information, and highlighted the need for an independent investigation by a special prosecutor.

Democrats were aided in the latter effort, albeit reluctantly, by Comey himself.

Early in the hearing, Senator Amy Klobuchar asked Comey if he would fully brief the Senate and House intelligence committees on the results of the FBI’s Trump/Russia investigation, and Comey responded that he would only do so if given permission by DOJ:

Despite Comey’s professed faith in Rosenstein, who has refused to commit to an independent investigation, this testimony unquestionably proves the necessity of a special prosecutor.

In short, Comey has declared that he will not brief the intelligence committees without permission from the Trump-appointed deputy attorney general; that he will not inform them if Trump’s White House refuses to cooperate; and that the decision to prosecute will ultimately rest in a Trump appointee’s hands.

Comey may be fine with that, but the American people are not."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #158 on: May 07, 2017, 02:59:45 AM »
Quote
Russiagate is nothing other than a way to challenge Trump's credibility while absolving the DNC from any responsibility for losing the election.

That is laughable.  You either still don't know the election is over.....OR.....you're getting paid by "Vlad".
 
Quote
Don't bother "following the money", simply ask who stands to benefit.

The FBI IS following the money....quite LITERALLY. 

I am truly AMAZED by you....
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #159 on: May 07, 2017, 03:31:15 AM »
so terry
russiagate is an elaborate plot carried out by elite operatives in the DNC?
Hmm very interesting, can you elaborate more please?


Your comprehension is incomprehensible.
Is this an attempt at a red herring, or simply an inability to follow rather simple sentence structures?
If English is a second language I apologize, but I do ask that you return to your English lessons.
Terry

mati

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #160 on: May 07, 2017, 03:43:06 AM »
so terry
russiagate is an elaborate plot carried out by elite operatives in the DNC?
Hmm very interesting, can you elaborate more please?


Your comprehension is incomprehensible.
Is this an attempt at a red herring, or simply an inability to follow rather simple sentence structures?
If English is a second language I apologize, but I do ask that you return to your English lessons.
Terry
aha, now an ad hominem attack, please terry respond, what facts do you have backing up your assertions that the DNC is responsible for russiagate.
thanks
mati
and so it goes

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #161 on: May 07, 2017, 03:44:33 AM »
Quote
Russiagate is nothing other than a way to challenge Trump's credibility while absolving the DNC from any responsibility for losing the election.

That is laughable.  You either still don't know the election is over.....OR.....you're getting paid by "Vlad".
 
Quote
Don't bother "following the money", simply ask who stands to benefit.

The FBI IS following the money....quite LITERALLY. 

I am truly AMAZED by you....
I'm AMAZED, quite LITERALLY that the FBI doesn't know that the election is over.


Almost by definition people couldn't claim that the Russians had stolen our election - until the election was over.


Was this an attempt at humor? Showing everyone just how poorly thought out the arguments for Russiagate are?


Cause/Effect
Sequence does matter
Terry

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #162 on: May 07, 2017, 04:00:28 AM »
so terry
russiagate is an elaborate plot carried out by elite operatives in the DNC?
Hmm very interesting, can you elaborate more please?


Your comprehension is incomprehensible.
Is this an attempt at a red herring, or simply an inability to follow rather simple sentence structures?
If English is a second language I apologize, but I do ask that you return to your English lessons.
Terry
aha, now an ad hominem attack, please terry respond, what facts do you have backing up your assertions that the DNC is responsible for russiagate.
thanks
mati
My dear mati.
No attack intended. I simply never claimed that the DNC was responsible, in fact I wrote that I had eliminated them as possible suspects.
I was sincere in my apologies if your lack of comprehension was due to conversing in a language you might not be familiar with. Otherwise I couldn't, and can't understand why you seem unable to read rather simplified English.


If you wrote that A + B = C
And I responded, demanding to know why you insisted that
A - B = C
Would it constitute a personal attack to question your understanding of mathematical notation?


Terry


Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #163 on: May 07, 2017, 09:48:35 PM »
Eric Trump said 'we have all the funding we need out of Russia', golf writer claims

https://www.yahoo.com/news/eric-trump-said-apos-funding-144213395.html

When they get done digging into the Russia/Trump financing deals.....Eric and his brother will very comfortable rooms at nice "hotel with barred windows." ;)

This is one of the things that is going to take quite a while:  Unraveling all the financing that has been done by Russia.  A lot of things will "come together" after the authorities have subpoenaed Donnie's tax returns.....as well as all the banking done through the Cyprus banks, as well as Ddeutsche Bank.  But it will be an enlightening ride..... 
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

budmantis

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #164 on: May 08, 2017, 12:36:47 AM »
Very interesting Buddy, no doubt Terry will have an interesting rejoinder. I've been following the discussion but haven't had the time to do my own research, therefore I've not commented much lately. Good to see you still plugging away at this.

BudM

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #165 on: May 08, 2017, 12:56:47 AM »
Very interesting Buddy, no doubt Terry will have an interesting rejoinder.
Slowly but surely methinks Terry is a Russian troll. :) Possibly without knowing it. :) The Russians seem to have psychic powers unbeknownst to the West. :)

budmantis

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #166 on: May 08, 2017, 06:20:14 AM »
Recently I said to Terry that sometimes he's just arguing for the sake of arguing. You've got to give him credit for being a great devil's advocate, but I do think at times he carries it too far.

BudM

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #167 on: May 08, 2017, 07:16:52 AM »
Recently I said to Terry that sometimes he's just arguing for the sake of arguing. You've got to give him credit for being a great devil's advocate, but I do think at times he carries it too far.

BudM
Tut Tut Tut


I argue for peace.
I argue against Trump.
I argue for high ff costs.
&
I argue against big money in politics.


How does one take these arguments too far?
How are these arguments ones that the Devil would advocate?


Inquiringly
Terry

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #168 on: May 08, 2017, 12:46:51 PM »
Quote
I argue for peace.
I argue against Trump.
I argue for high ff costs.
&
I argue against big money in politics.

You "forgot" two others:

1)  You argue AGAINST Russia being involved with interfering in the US election (as well as the French election)

2)  You argue FOR Putin. 

NEITHER of those has been argued WITH FACTS.  Only your statement that you have done 2 years of research on Russia.

Just want to make sure we had your "full list" of things you argue "for" or "against."



 
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #169 on: May 08, 2017, 12:57:48 PM »
Well.....not enough time.  Didn't get to a timeline I wanted to get to.  Here are two things many of you will find interesting.

One is a timeline put together by CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/politics/trump-russia-timeline/

The other is a link to The Palmer Report....which has a 17 page PDF that outlines most of the schenanigans going on between Trump and Russia...

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/download-the-palmer-report-on-trump-russia/2093/

The testimony today starts at 2:30 EST.  I don't believe it has been announced exactly what time Yates is going to testify.....because I believe that both her AND Clapper will be testifying...so I don't know who is going first, and I don't know if it will "spill over" to tomorrow.

Set your DVR's....
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

budmantis

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #170 on: May 08, 2017, 02:00:55 PM »
Recently I said to Terry that sometimes he's just arguing for the sake of arguing. You've got to give him credit for being a great devil's advocate, but I do think at times he carries it too far.

BudM
Tut Tut Tut


I argue for peace.
I argue against Trump.
I argue for high ff costs.
&
I argue against big money in politics.


How does one take these arguments too far?
How are these arguments ones that the Devil would advocate?


Inquiringly
Terry

Arguing for the four reasons listed above is fine, but you've carried the argument over Putin and Russiagate too far. Putin may or may not be the devil, but he's no angel. Let's see what evidence comes to light before dismissing Putin's involvement out of hand.

BudM

P.S. I assume you're reference to high "ff" costs was in regards to fossil fuels, not French fries!

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #171 on: May 08, 2017, 02:53:35 PM »
Recently I said to Terry that sometimes he's just arguing for the sake of arguing. You've got to give him credit for being a great devil's advocate, but I do think at times he carries it too far.

BudM
Tut Tut Tut


I argue for peace.
I argue against Trump.
I argue for high ff costs.
&
I argue against big money in politics.


How does one take these arguments too far?
How are these arguments ones that the Devil would advocate?


Inquiringly
Terry

Arguing for the four reasons listed above is fine, but you've carried the argument over Putin and Russiagate too far. Putin may or may not be the devil, but he's no angel. Let's see what evidence comes to light before dismissing Putin's involvement out of hand.

BudM

P.S. I assume you're reference to high "ff" costs was in regards to fossil fuels, not French fries!


I thought the argument about Russiagate was over?
Didn't Feinstein, after taking in the CIA's presentation, tell the world that there was no proof of Russian interference in the election?
This is like a girl who cried rape saying she made it up - what's left to argue?


Putin was and I believe still is the most popular politician in the world. Every great man has jealous detractors.


And you're damn right that french fries are underpriced. Poutine is the only civilized way to indulge in fried potatoes, as your ancestors would attest to.


Terry

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #172 on: May 08, 2017, 03:26:21 PM »
Terry, you sure did miss the link to the full Feinstein interview in the "corporate Democrats" thread.
Quote
It is this: starting at 6:50 (wrrr, after 6:50 on Hillary's emails. When will they ever learn?)
Well yes it is a straw you Russophiles can cling to. But I (German Russophobe) can cling to this straw: What if she was taking the "classified" a bit too seriously, i.e. she refuses to talk about even the existence of such evidence (if existing). What if it is only that the CIA doesn't yet have ironclad evidence of collusion (e.g. a Trump tape telling it literally)?

Anyhow the Russophiles conveniently forget about the first half of that half of the interview. Feinstein said:
Quote
...high confidence that there was a covert influence campaign going on, headed by two Russian intelligence agencies...
... I won't read/type out the rest for you. That's your homework.
Given the many connections of many Trumpists to Russia it is very plausible they colluded or took advantage of Russian work. And that is either recklessly stupid or plain treason. Both is impeachable.

wili

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #173 on: May 08, 2017, 03:27:45 PM »
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

And please, please don't trivialize the crime of rape on this (or on any other) forum.

Thank you,

Dohboi
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #174 on: May 08, 2017, 03:37:32 PM »
I thought the argument about Russiagate was over?

Oh, I'm sure Trump and other Spetsnaz-loving Russophiles wish it were. But unfortunately for them, things like today's Senate subcommittee hearing and the ongoing and widening multi-agency investigation into possible collusion would indicate that ain't necessarily so just yet.

Didn't Feinstein, after taking in the CIA's presentation, tell the world that there was no proof of Russian interference in the election?

See, that's the problem with consuming only what you find on Right Wing news outlets: they never give you the whole story. Listen to the entire interview, then get back to us.

Putin was and I believe still is the most popular politician in the world. Every great man has jealous detractors.

Oh, c'mon; surely you're smart enough to know that "popular" doesn't necessarily equal "great", aren't you?

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #175 on: May 08, 2017, 05:05:45 PM »
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

And please, please don't trivialize the crime of rape on this (or on any other) forum.

Thank you,

Dohboi


Screw off with the pc bull.


Thank you
Terry

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #176 on: May 08, 2017, 05:21:45 PM »
Well yes it is a straw you Russophiles can cling to. But I (German Russophobe) can cling to this straw:

What was that again about the Middle Way?  ;D
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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #177 on: May 08, 2017, 05:24:54 PM »
Screw off with the pc bull.

Yes, and let's not get worked up/aggressive either. We're all just having fun and blowing off steam here.  :)
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #178 on: May 08, 2017, 05:39:10 PM »
Here are a couple of great quotes from a video clip on ClimateCrocks.com this morning.  The quotes were in reference to scientists and climate change.....but I think they apply to ALL MANKIND....and to ALL DISCIPLINES.

Whether you are talking about RussiaGate, global warming, sports, politics, religion, or ANY OTHER SUBJECT.....the FOCUS should always be GETTING TO THE TRUTH.....USING THE AVAILABLE FACTS AND EVIDENCE.  PERIOD.

What happened with Greg Fishel below.....was that he first "thought"....that global warming was garbage.  Maybe he didn't look hard enough at first....or maybe he just WANTED global warming to be garbage.  We don't know what the BIAS's were that he had.  But BEFORE he really dove into the subject...he had a BIAS towards not believing it.    But over time....he eventually had to face up to the truth (because it NEVER goes away ;)).

And that is the same for politics.....or national affairs like RUSSIAGATE.   Some people DON'T want it to be true.  Some people....maybe because they have an affinity towards a particular Russian leader ( ;)).....have a bias towards NOT believing that RussiaGate is really truth.

Anyway....my point is this:  No matter WHICH side of an argument you are on....you should ALWAYS GUARD AGAINST BIAS.  You should ALWAYS ask yourself:  "Am I being objective"......"am I looking for the truth, or just what I WANT the truth to be?"

“I was a hardcore skeptic.  The mistake I was making, and didn’t realize it until very recently, was that I was only looking for information to support what I already thought, and was not interested in listening to anything contrary.”    Greg Fishel, Meteorologist, Raleigh, North Carolina

And below...another good quote from another meteorologist:

[size=12pt]“Like any good scientist, you always take in the information, and then you question it and you research it yourself and find out what’s really going on.”  Amber Sullins, Meteorologist, Phoenix, AZ[/size]

It applies not only to scientists....but to everyone else as well.  LOOK FOR THE TRUTH....  And even AFTER you have an ESTABLISHED POSITION on a subject.....CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR THE TRUTH....and question yourself from time-to-time to make SURE you aren't ignoring the real facts and truth that is in front of you.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #179 on: May 08, 2017, 06:14:48 PM »
Martin


I had missed the first 8 min. or so of the interview. Thanks for the heads up!


Most of her anger seems directed at Comey (the subject of the interview apparently), and I agree that if I thought a scapegoat was helpful, it's him I'd drive into the desert.
Early on I had compared his actions directly to those taken by the head of our RCMP on the occasion of Stephen Harper's first win here in Canada - We fired ours, Comey has some strong support somewhere.


At the 7th min. after muffing around about Hillary's phones & Bill's airport meetings she regurgitates what MSM has been reporting for months about the evil Russians. By 8:20 she's begging off, for security reasons, but by 9:00 she opines that the FBI's report to congress was ~= to the classified report.


At 9:40, after verifying that Feinstein had been to a CIA briefing the previous day,


Wolf asks, "Do you believe - do you have evidence, that there was in fact collusion, between Trump associates and Russia, during the campaign."


Feinstein's response - "Not at this time."


Wolf - "Well, that's a pretty precise answer. (short pause) I know the investigation is continuing. Thank you Senator."


I should have looked for a transcript. I wrote code for a whole bevy of State Stenographers in a past life, with little appreciation for their work. That said, hearing the whole interview has done little to modify my stance. To quote Wolf "Well, that's a pretty precise answer" & the answer of course was "Not at this time"


Asked and answered, as a judge might respond to anyone questioning her response.


Do you believe there are fairies in your garden?
Do you have any evidence that the dog ate your homework?
Do you believe - do you have evidence that the moon landings were faked?
Do you believe - do you have evidence that there was in fact collusion, between Trump associates and Russia, during the campaign?


Not at this time.


Terry

edit:
Has anyone figured out how to get rid of those damn resizing commands?
Thanks
edit2:
Now they're gone???
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 06:27:06 PM by TerryM »

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #180 on: May 08, 2017, 06:22:04 PM »
Screw off with the pc bull.

Yes, and let's not get worked up/aggressive either. We're all just having fun and blowing off steam here.  :)


Mea Culpa
I do know better - appologies to Wili & congratulations, you're the first here to cause me to lose my cool.
Terry
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 02:12:28 PM by TerryM »

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #181 on: May 08, 2017, 09:04:51 PM »
Terry, apology (and congrats) accepted.

My mother has been raped, something she only shared privately with me a couple years ago, once she was well into her eighties.

My daughter was raped last year, something as far as I know, she has shared with only me and (I assume) her therapist.

My wife was raped before I met her.

I only share these things here because of my own anonymity. I have to assume from my experience that many more women than we will ever know have been raped and have never spoken of it to anyone, or only to others sworn to secrecy.

The issue of trivializing rape is not a 'pc' issue to me.

But let's drop this OT topic at that, shall we?
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #182 on: May 08, 2017, 11:00:42 PM »
Just caught a snippet or two of the Yates testimony today.  Can't wait to watch it tonight....

Sharks are circling....and there is blood in the water....

Tick...tick...tick....tick....tick....
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #183 on: May 09, 2017, 01:54:54 AM »
The linked article is entitled: “Sally Yates told White House aides Flynn was a Russian blackmail risk. 18 days later, he was fired.”  It looks like people (MSM, Congress, the FBI) need to keep after the WH to explain why they waited 18-day before firing Flynn.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/politics/sally-yates-flynn-russia/index.html

Extract: “It's no longer an acceptable answer to say -- as Trump and White House advisers like Sean Spicer and Reince Priebus have -- that the information passed from Yates to McGahn was insignificant. Unless Yates is lying -- and no one has suggested she is -- then what she told McGahn on January 26 (and followed up on the next day) was of huge importance.

"Why wouldn't you fire a guy who did this?" Sen. Al Franken wondered aloud at the hearing.
Why didn't Trump act? That's the question the White House has to answer. And soon.”
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #184 on: May 09, 2017, 02:55:33 AM »
Was there anything new? The case looks a bit thin, just some stupidity and incompetence. Any serious kompromat somewhere?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/08/sally-yates-trump-russia-michael-flynn-blackmail-compromised
Quote
According to her Senate testimony, the White House counsel asked her: “Why does it matter to the Department of Justice whether one White House official lies to another White House official?”

“We explained to him that it’s a lot more than that,” Yates said. “We also said that we weren’t the only ones who knew this. The Russians also knew what General Flynn had done and that what Pence said was not true. The Russians not only knew this but they also likely had proof.”

Yates added: “To restate the obvious, you don’t want your national security adviser compromised with the Russians.”
What she mean by "a lot more"?
If it's just about "one White House official lies to another White House official" and Russia knowing it, not e.g. a golden showers tape, then the case is a bit boring :) If the Russians would try blackmail me on that, I would just go tell the truth to uncle Donald.

But Flynn is seriously crazy and in a huge tangle of Russophilia :)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/31/michael-flynn-new-evidence-spy-chiefs-had-concerns-about-russian-ties
... so I wouldn't be surprised of harder stuff. It's time for some serious rubber-hits-road...

 

« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 03:11:26 AM by Martin Gisser »

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #185 on: May 09, 2017, 05:16:38 AM »
The timeline as I understand it:


May 13, 2015 Yates is Obama's appointee as "Deputy Attorney General of the USA"

Nov 12, 2015 Obama warns Trump not to hire Flynn in WH meeting*1
Jan 20 - Trump sworn in (Fri.)*1

Jan 20 - Yates begins her 1 week stint as "Acting Attorney General of the USA" Appointed by Trump(Fri.)*2
Jan 24 - Flynn interviewed by FBI(Tue.)*1
Jan 25 - Yates receives "detailed FBI rpt.", 302 rpt. not yet written*1 (wiki explains FD-302 FORM)
Jan 26 - First meeting with White House counsel Don McGahn about Flynn - asked to return - see below
Jan 27 - Second meeting with McGahn about Flynn - see below
(start clock for Flynn's dismissal)(Fri)*2
Jan 27 - Exec. Order 13769 banning travel.
Jan 28 - Trump speaks by phone to Putin with Flynn in the room as well as Priebus, Pence, Bannon, and Spicer, & photographer?*1
Jan 28 - Cases filed & Court orders Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) against enforcing 13769
Jan 29 - Dept of Homeland Security says it will continue to enforce 13769
Jan 30 - Yates bars Justice dept. from defending 13769
Jan 30 - Trump relieves Yates from duty after calling her statement a "betrayal" to the Dept. of Justice(Mon) [Yates hired on a Fri, fired on 2nd Mon]*2


Jan 30 - Trump appoints Dana J. Boente to replace Yates
Feb 03 - Washington Judge temporarily blocks majority of 13769
Feb 04 - Homeland Security stops enforcing 13769
Feb 04 - State Dept. reinstated suspended visas
Feb 04 - Justice Dept. asks for reversal of blocking order
Feb 04 - 9th Circuit temporarily denies Justice Dept Request
Feb 07 - 9th Circuit holds hearings
Feb 08 - 9th Circuit continues hearings
Feb 09 - 9th Circuit unanimously denies Justice Dept's request to deny stay of 13769
Feb 13 - Virginia judge rules against Administration
Feb 13 - Flynn resigns
(stop clock for Flynn's dismissal)


Feb 16 - Trump Admin tells 9th Circuit they'll replace 13769 next week
Feb 16 - 9th Circuit stays review of previous ruling


Mar 08 - Yates Testifies before Senate subcommittee :
Mar 08 - Yates testifies to 2 meetings and 1 phone call with McGahn, Date of call not yet charted here*1
Mar 08 - Sen Graham(R) asks Clapper (head of NDI) and Yates if "either had intelligence that would confirm collusion between Trump Admin. & the Kremlin. Clapper - "No evidence of such collusion" - Yates refused to answer citing "classified information*1
Mar 08 - Clapper & Yates both deny being 'anonymous' source to media*1
Mar 08 - Yates says she instructed DOJ not to defend 13769 as in her mind its "unlawful & unconstitutional - Sen. Kennedy(R) asks "Who appointed you to the Supreme Court?"*1
Mar 08 - Wikileaks says Clapper lied or misled when testifying that there was no release of Republican Data - Assange offers released archive as proof*1


First meeting with McGahn per Yates at WH*1



Told McGahn that
Flynn misrepresented his contact with Ambassador Sergey Kislyak to VP Pence because:
1) Flynn's conduct was problematic in itself
2) She believed that Pence should be notified
3) She was concerned that the American people had been misled
4) The Russians knew that Flynn had lied, likely had proof, and this potentially exposed Flynn to blackmail - the previous was given as a response to McGowan's questioning of why AG was concerned *1
Both Yates & McGahn bring assts.to meeting - FBI's 302 rpt. not completed*1


Second meeting agenda items per Yates:


1) Why does it matter to DOJ whether one WH official lies to another WH official
2) What is Flynn's criminal exposure
2a) Potential prosecution on Flynn discussed at 2nd meeting as opposed to 1st*1
3) Whether taking action against Flynn could impede any investigation of him
4) Whether the WH could examine the underlying evidence in this matter




I'll try to fill this out as I find new data. Flynn's actions within the time period might be interesting. public statements by the major characters, & of course any other confirmable information related. I don't think it's OT, so another thread probably isn't required.
As it stands I don't see much here.


WH council gets word on Fri the 27th, Flynn resigns on Mon the 13th, 11 business days after WH was informed of lie. What is the problem?*2


Terry
edit 1 - tagged *1 - from 5/08
edit 2 - tagged *2 - from 5/10
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 02:59:16 PM by TerryM »

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #186 on: May 09, 2017, 12:48:01 PM »
Quote
I'll try to fill this out as I find new data. Flynn's actions within the time period might be interesting. public statements by the major characters, & of course any other confirmable information related. I don't think it's OT, so another thread probably isn't required.
As it stands I don't see much here.

Yea.....you're probably right.  Why would it be a big deal to have your TOP NATIONAL SECURITY PERSON BEING BLACKMAILED BY RUSSIA?  Clearly not a big deal. ;)

Yea.....you're probably right.  Knowing that your top national security advisor might already be compromised by Russian agents....Donnie KEEPS HIM ON FOR EIGHTEEN MORE DAYS....INCLUDING HIM IN HIGH LEVEL TALKS WITH FOREIGN ENTITIES.

Yea....you're probably right.  We now know that Donnie EITHER (a) ALLOWED HIS VICE PRESIDENT TO "FLY BLIND" RELATIVE TO THE FLYNN KNOWLEDGE....going on talk show after talk show and spreading information THAT DONNIE KNEW WAS WRONG AT THE TIME.....OR.....(b)MIKE PENCE ALREADY KNEW THAT FLYNN WAS COMPROMISED, AND CONTINUED TO COVER FOR HIM.  Either one is really bad. :o

Yea....you're probably right.  if the Washington Post had not run the story from a leak....that Sally Yates had already warned the White House about Michael Flynn, Michael Flynn MIGHT STILL BE IN THE WHITE HOUSE. >:(

Your statement's are no longer laughable.  They are dangerous.  As an American....I find your statements REPREHENSIBLE.....and now wonder who is paying you (literally...figuratively).

This guy does a good job of summing things up:



The game has only begun.  Now....it is clear that Trump, Pence, Spicer, Conway, McGahn, and a GROWING LIST OF OTHERS.....not only worked with the Russians, they also have tried to cover it up.  And they will ALL BE TOAST....
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 01:28:28 PM by Buddy »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #187 on: May 09, 2017, 01:09:04 PM »
RussiaGate is a little like planting Tulips.  Tulips are planted about 5 months BEFORE they bloom in the spring.  Well....RussiaGate was planted in 2016....and it is JUST NOW BEGINNING TO BLOOM.  The one significant difference....is that Tulips only bloom for a short time, about a month or less.  With RussiaGate....THERE ARE A LOT MORE BLOOMS TO COME.  The bloom of RussiaGate will last for a year.

From the following CNN article:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politics/trump-yates-russia/

Investigation could run into next year

Quote
The answer to that question may not come for a long time yet -- not at least until the FBI probe into Russian interference in last year's election and possible links to the Trump campaign wraps up.

FBI Director James Comey has given no timeline for the investigation. And there are new signs that congressional investigations into the affair may linger deep into Trump's term.

CNN's Manu Raju reported Monday that a mountain of evidence and partisan disagreement mean it could be 2018 before the job is wrapped up. And even then, hopes are fading that there can be a bipartisan conclusion on the extent of Russian election meddling.
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #188 on: May 09, 2017, 01:11:58 PM »
Buddy
Just finished 1st edit of timeline.
Do you have any data you'd like to add to that post?
I'm afraid my hearing's bad & my wife's asleep so I need written, not verbal information.


You're welcome to do as you like of course - I believe t'was you that alerted us to this hearing, but what I'm interested in is discovering, and documenting, what occurred during the period in question.
You mention Flynn being "in high level talks with foreign entities" during these critical (to the subcommittee) days.
Who, when, and the subject of the talks would all help.
Feel free to copy, paste and add your own data to the timeline, or just put a link out (preferably a silent one), and I'll plug information in.


edit
Followed the text of your CNN link above & found nothing new. Should I wait until sweety awakens to do the video, or does it ~= the text?
Are they planning a replay of the unending Clinton hearing(s) - who's the new Ken Starr?


Terry
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 01:29:27 PM by TerryM »

Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #189 on: May 09, 2017, 01:17:00 PM »
Yates convened an emergency face-to-face meeting with McGahn on January 26 to warn him that Flynn was compromised. She met again the next day to provide further details, and urged McGahn to act on her warning. But in the two-and-a-half weeks after that warning, aboslutely nothing happened. Flynn continued his unfettered, highest-of-all-possible-levels of access to the nation's security network. That's two-and-a-half weeks of attending security briefings; two-and-a-half weeks of listening in on Oval Office phone calls (including one with Putin); two-and-a-half weeks of reading highly-classified reports and memos and transcripts. In short, that's two-and-a-half weeks of a known Russian foreign agent freely wandering the halls of the White House with the full knowledge and explicit permission of the President, the Vice President, Bannon, Priebus, and others who should have known better.

For her patriotic efforts, Yates was terminated (public reason: failure to enforce the President's unconstitutional Muslim ban. Private reason: take a wild guess).

So what the hell took the White House so long to fire Flynn? Utter incompetence? Hubris and arrogance? A criminal act? All of the above? And given that all of that came after the outgoing President directly told the incoming President in November that Flynn was an unstable fruitcake who should not be anywhere near the White House, what was the reason for hiring him? For keeping him? Of course, the timing of Flynn's, ahem, "resignation" seems very convenient, given that the Washington Post was about to break the news that Flynn had been compromised, and firing him then let the White House senior staff flop back on their fainting couches, clutch at their pearls, and cry, "Oh, how could he have lied to us?!"

As it stands, I see much here. But far more importantly, so do a whole lot of good people in the Justice department and elsewhere. Of course, nothing much may happen so long as the corrupt, ideological, party-first-party-only Republicans control most of the levers--but they won't always have that control. And when that change comes, that's when heads will roll.

Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #190 on: May 09, 2017, 01:22:19 PM »
You mention Flynn being "in high level talks with foreign entities" during these critical (to the subcommittee) days.
Who, when, and the subject of the talks would all help.



This is two days after Yates' first face-to-face meeting with McGahn. At this point,
Flynn shouldn't have even been allowed onto the White House grounds, much less into the Oval Office. Source: NPR
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 01:31:08 PM by Jim Pettit »

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #191 on: May 09, 2017, 01:48:31 PM »
Yates convened an emergency face-to-face meeting with McGahn on January 26 to warn him that Flynn was compromised. She met again the next day to provide further details, and urged McGahn to act on her warning. But in the two-and-a-half weeks after that warning, aboslutely nothing happened. Flynn continued his unfettered, highest-of-all-possible-levels of access to the nation's security network. That's two-and-a-half weeks of attending security briefings; two-and-a-half weeks of listening in on Oval Office phone calls (including one with Putin); two-and-a-half weeks of reading highly-classified reports and memos and transcripts. In short, that's two-and-a-half weeks of a known Russian foreign agent freely wandering the halls of the White House with the full knowledge and explicit permission of the President, the Vice President, Bannon, Priebus, and others who should have known better.

For her patriotic efforts, Yates was terminated (public reason: failure to enforce the President's unconstitutional Muslim ban. Private reason: take a wild guess).

So what the hell took the White House so long to fire Flynn? Utter incompetence? Hubris and arrogance? A criminal act? All of the above? And given that all of that came after the outgoing President directly told the incoming President in November that Flynn was an unstable fruitcake who should not be anywhere near the White House, what was the reason for hiring him? For keeping him? Of course, the timing of Flynn's, ahem, "resignation" seems very convenient, given that the Washington Post was about to break the news that Flynn had been compromised, and firing him then let the White House senior staff flop back on their fainting couches, clutch at their pearls, and cry, "Oh, how could he have lied to us?!"

As it stands, I see much here. But far more importantly, so do a whole lot of good people in the Justice department and elsewhere. Of course, nothing much may happen so long as the corrupt, ideological, party-first-party-only Republicans control most of the levers--but they won't always have that control. And when that change comes, that's when heads will roll.


My understanding is that Flynn had been a registered Turkish lobbyist? Do I have this wrong?
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #192 on: May 09, 2017, 03:15:23 PM »
My understanding is that Flynn had been a registered Turkish lobbyist? Do I have this wrong?
Terry

Flynn retroactively registered as a foreign agent for Turkey several weeks after he was fired from the White House. But Flynn also worked for Russia at the same time he worked for Turkey, taking tens of thousands of dollars in payments from Moscow that he didn't disclose on official documents. That's one of the reasons Yates warned McGahn that Flynn had been compromised. But, again, TrumpCo failed to separate Flynn from national security operations even after they knew that--that is, a known Russian foreign agent was allowed unrestricted access. To everything.

Not cool. Not cool at all...

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #193 on: May 09, 2017, 03:34:52 PM »
It is clear to me now.....that RussiaGate investigation will greatly broaden in scope over the coming months.  It will eventually include investigations into collusion by FOX News in helping Donald Trump to cover up the RussiaGate affair via Rupert Murdoch.  Things will hit the fan even more than I had thought.  An Independent commission will be required.....and I expect that a couple years down the road.....new laws will be required to forbid a news organization to work with/for any individual or any one party.

I'll have more on this later......but I would expect more and more chatter about this.  Rupert Murdoch is consulting with Donald Trump on the RussiaGate matters on a frequent basis according to reports in the media.  As well......some branches of government are requiring that the "news channel" their tv's are required to be set on is FOX News.  Isn't that handy.😏

This is the reason why I have always said....that FOX News is DANGEROUS.  They are NOT a "news outlet"....they are a "propaganda vehicle."  Personally.....I would LOVE to have a "conservative" news outlet (as well as outlets on the "left"/progressive).  But it needs to be based IN FACTS AND TRUTH. Not a basket of lies as is the case with FOX.

THIS SHOULD SCARE THE HELL OUT OF YOU
https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2017/05/06/murdoch-reportedly-advising-trump-while-doj-investigates-fox/216309

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-federal-staff-force-fox-news-change-cnn-fake-news-leaked-email-a7721696.html

 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 03:48:27 PM by Buddy »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #194 on: May 09, 2017, 04:11:56 PM »
I've watched a little bit of the NBA playoffs this year....and have yet to see any slam dunks better than these two on Senator Cornyn and Senator Ted Cruz (Texas deserves WAY BETTER than these two liars).  Both of these are VERY SHORT VIDEO CLIPS....





Sally Yates made BOTH of them look like they were wading into deep water.....without knowing how to swim.

On the Cruz clip...if you want to see an excellent job of "baiting".....pay special attention starting at 1:00 (one minute)  into the clip....where Cruz asks Yates if she is "familiar with 8 section 1182".  To which she replies "no" (THAT...was the bait).  And Teddy.....opened his mouth as far as he could....and took the bait and ran with it.  Unfortunately.....Yates fully understood 8 Section  1182.....and understood another portion of the code that supersedes it.

I hope you watch both videos.  It shows two men.....unevenly matched against a much stronger opponent in Yates.  And she devours them.  NOT by yelling and screaming and lying.  But by CALMLY boxing them into their respective corners with the TRUTH.  IT NEVER GOES AWAY....
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #195 on: May 09, 2017, 04:53:35 PM »
Russia gets on with it while Washington D.C. drowns in blah blah.

Russia showcases Arctic hardware in Red Square military parade
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-wwii-anniversary-russia-parade-idUSKBN1850XO
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #196 on: May 09, 2017, 05:40:28 PM »
It was always just a matter of time....

Top Republican Senator calls for investigation of Trump’s business ties to Russia

http://resistancereport.com/politics/top-republican-senator-calls-investigation-trumps-business-ties-russia/

Now...further groundwork has been done.  If Donnie's tax returns haven't been subpoenaed yet...they will be.  As well as those of the Trump organization.  It's just now warming up......  Now the "forensic accountants" with the FBI will have their hands full for a while....

 
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #197 on: May 09, 2017, 05:48:12 PM »
Well.....McMaster was NEVER going to work out in the long run for Donnie.  After all...McMaster is now likely becoming aware of some of the Flynn schenanigans and crimes, because McMaster took Flynn's place.  So McMaster isn't going to just roll over with every Donnie tweet and command.  He isn't a paid crook like Flynn was.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-05-08/washington-loves-general-mcmaster-but-trump-doesn-t

As I noted a few weeks ago.....we will REALLY need to worry if the Secretary of Defense is "on the outs" with Donnie in coming weeks or months.

NOTE:  Donnie is now backed into a SHRINKING CORNER.  And a wounded animal....especially one that is a sociopath....WILL DO ANYTHING.  And in Donnie's case....anything means ANYTHING. 
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Laura Derrick

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #198 on: May 09, 2017, 06:25:16 PM »
The timeline as I understand it:

Terry
edit 1 - tagged *1

Maybe this will help fill in some gaps:
http://billmoyers.com/story/the-trump-resistance-plan-a-timeline-russia-and-president-trump/

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #199 on: May 09, 2017, 08:26:23 PM »
One thing to keep in mind over the coming months.  Donnie will do ANYTHING TO GET THE SUBJECT OFF OF RUSSIAGATE.

It will NOT surprise me if he suggests that he and his team aren't apply to comply with some or all of the RussiaGate requests because there is "so much important business" to attend to. ;)

Remember....this is a LIAR IN CHIEF WHO WILL LIE ABOUT ANYTHING.

That lying will ONLY INCREASE OVER THE COMING MONTHS TO INCREDIBLE LEVELS.

Spicey is going to have his hands full in coming days and weeks as he tries to lie, bob, and weave his way out of a web of lies.  They will try to show things as....."business as usual" as much as they can.

The process continues........tick...tick....tick...tick...
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