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ritter

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #300 on: May 16, 2017, 10:29:34 PM »


Edit: the preceding analysis completly ignores a blue ocean event. If that happens forget about economics and politics as we know them.

Unfortunately, I don't think most people will notice or care unless it hits them in the [empty] stomach. Blue ocean event is in the works, this year or soon thereafter, but I don't expect it will change much until the impacts are undeniably bad on one's home turf.

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #301 on: May 16, 2017, 10:51:42 PM »
Here's another Jimmy Dore video that I just know you're going to love  ;) . It's called Exactly What Is Trump Accused Of With Russia?. It's quite funny and has some good advice at the end (be careful what you wish for):

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pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #302 on: May 16, 2017, 10:58:10 PM »


Edit: the preceding analysis completly ignores a blue ocean event. If that happens forget about economics and politics as we know them.

Unfortunately, I don't think most people will notice or care unless it hits them in the [empty] stomach. Blue ocean event is in the works, this year or soon thereafter, but I don't expect it will change much until the impacts are undeniably bad on one's home turf.

Agreed.  When Arctic sea ice goes below 1M km2 for the first time, it will get more media play than usual, but the vast majority of people will be unaware or will not care.  If anything the focus will be on Russia's plans to expand oil and gas exploration.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #303 on: May 17, 2017, 12:09:32 AM »
Agreed.  When Arctic sea ice goes below 1M km2 for the first time, it will get more media play than usual, but the vast majority of people will be unaware or will not care.  If anything the focus will be on Russia's plans to expand oil and gas exploration.

No, I think the focus is going to be on Russiagate.
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pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #304 on: May 17, 2017, 12:18:48 AM »
Agreed.  When Arctic sea ice goes below 1M km2 for the first time, it will get more media play than usual, but the vast majority of people will be unaware or will not care.  If anything the focus will be on Russia's plans to expand oil and gas exploration.

No, I think the focus is going to be on Russiagate.

WRT to the Arctic, it will likely be on opportunities to expand oil and gas exploration.

US politics?  Russiagate will settle down by the time there is a blue ocean event (even in unlikely event that it happens this September, as Donald Trump will not be president any longer).  He won't survive today's news.

ritter

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #305 on: May 17, 2017, 12:27:10 AM »
  He won't survive today's news.
Wish I shared your optimism. I suspect we'll have several more years of being force fed bullshit while politics spiral out of control before he's gone.

Archimid

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #306 on: May 17, 2017, 12:35:00 AM »
A blue ocean event will be felt over the whole northern hemisphere. The world will not be same afterwards. Everything will change for everybody, mostly for the worse. That includes super powers, Trump, Putin, you and me.

Neven that video is disingenuous. I couldn't get past 5 minutes. They are using exactly the same strategy as climate change deniers to lessen the gravity of the situation. Sow doubt here, muddle the facts there, make fun of very serious topics ect.

The reality is that both Trump and Putin are accomplished criminals. They know the laws and have teams making sure anything they do is untraceable. The only reason some of Trump's lackeys have been caught is because they were foolish enough to think they were not being watched.

Right now it does it matter the extent to which Trump was aware of Russian moves. Trump has already committed obstruction of justice.
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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #307 on: May 17, 2017, 01:02:00 AM »
Quote
The reality is that both Trump and Putin are accomplished criminals. They know the laws and have teams making sure anything they do is untraceable. The only reason some of Trump's lackeys have been caught is because they were foolish enough to think they were not being watched.

Right now it does it matter the extent to which Trump was aware of Russian moves. Trump has already committed obstruction of justice.

I hope you're right.

Bush and his cabinet were war criminals, taking money from God knows where. None of them are in jail. The Clintons have taken millions and millions from Russia and Saudi Arabia. They're not traitors. Obama, another war criminal.

Okay, I get it. This is different. Everybody in Washington hates Trump and he grabs women by their you know where. He's (still) not part of the establishment oligarchy.

Quote
Neven that video is disingenuous. I couldn't get past 5 minutes. They are using exactly the same strategy as climate change deniers to lessen the gravity of the situation. Sow doubt here, muddle the facts there, make fun of very serious topics ect.

I said you would like it, didn't I?  ;)

He's not sowing doubt. He just wants to know what the exact collusion is that everyone is going hysterical over. He's not muddling facts. He says he probably knows too little about it. And yes, he is making fun of certain aspects of it.

If it would be as clear-cut as the clickbait mainstream media makes it out to be, you would expect much more to be known as fact already.

I'm going to wait and see how this plays out. But Dore has two good points:

1) There is a tremendous amount of speculation and innuendo, fuelled by an ardent wish to get rid of Trump asap, but no one can explain what it is exactly that Trump did.
2) Be careful what you wish for. Maybe this isn't the best way for Democrats to capitalize on the Trump failure.
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #308 on: May 17, 2017, 02:03:22 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "Trump 'asked FBI to halt Flynn inquiry'"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39944520

Extract: "The White House better batten down the hatches. A storm is brewing."
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 02:45:57 AM by AbruptSLR »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #309 on: May 17, 2017, 02:15:35 AM »
More roaches.....the pack is becoming a herd.😳

Tick.....tick......tick......tick
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #310 on: May 17, 2017, 02:48:43 AM »
The Clintons have taken millions and millions from Russia and Saudi Arabia.
Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up! - Oops, wrong session... :)

Can you dig out some sources and details, maybe even context? I'm sick and tired of fact checking Clinton smear from the lefty circular firing squad. E.g. "Hillary's Saudi friends", said some time ago here on the forum, is pure and simple smear. Possibly Jimmy Dore said it? :)

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #311 on: May 17, 2017, 03:14:41 AM »
The funny thing with RussiaGate.....is that we haven't even gotten to the "juicey stuff" yet.😳
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #312 on: May 17, 2017, 03:32:16 AM »
Neven that video is disingenuous. I couldn't get past 5 minutes. They are using exactly the same strategy as climate change deniers to lessen the gravity of the situation. Sow doubt here, muddle the facts there, make fun of very serious topics ect.
Against my promise I clicked the video and skipped to ca. 1:45 and then had to stop and check that "plutonium" thing. Uranium it was - and the last to parrot that bullshit should have been Trump last year. Maybe I was too mild with Jimmy Dore...

FAKE meme from last year:


http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-uranium-russia-deal/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/30/donald-trump/donald-trump-inaccurately-suggests-clinton-got-pai/
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 03:37:33 AM by Martin Gisser »

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #313 on: May 17, 2017, 03:47:40 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "Trump 'asked FBI to halt Flynn inquiry'"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39944520

Extract: "The White House better batten down the hatches. A storm is brewing."

Also see the article entitled: "Congress Rattled by Reports Trump Tried to End Flynn Probe"

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/congress-rattled-reports-trump-tried-end-flynn-probe-n760521

Extract: ""This stunning, breathtaking revelation that the president is accused of reaching out directly to the head of the FBI to stop an investigation on General Flynn under these circumstances raises serious questions of obstruction of justice," Senate Democratic Whip Richard Durbin said."
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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #314 on: May 17, 2017, 06:59:51 AM »
The Clintons have taken millions and millions from Russia and Saudi Arabia.
Lock her up! Lock her up! Lock her up! - Oops, wrong session... :)

Can you dig out some sources and details, maybe even context? I'm sick and tired of fact checking Clinton smear from the lefty circular firing squad. E.g. "Hillary's Saudi friends", said some time ago here on the forum, is pure and simple smear. Possibly Jimmy Dore said it? :)

Sure, I'll post something on the Corporate Democrats thread. I'm surprised you think it's all a smear, implying there's nothing there to feed that perception. I mean, Bill went to Moscow for a 500K speech at a Russian investment bank with ties to the Kremlin (New York Times).

My point is that I'm still not so sure that Trump is going to be impeached over this. Not that I don't want him to not be impeached (even though I'm not sure if that would be the best thing strategically), but I thought Bush would be impeached too, and even jailed, along with Cheney and Wolfowitz and all the other neocons. They never were. And at face value, what they did, was much worse than what that idiot Trump has done so far.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 11:36:37 AM by Neven »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #315 on: May 17, 2017, 11:32:53 AM »

Although I think it's more likely that whoever phished the DNC's password from Podesta leaked the contents, it's still worth investigating the reason Assange had for offering a reward for information about Rich's murder.
He was young, apparently idealistic, may have felt strongly about the DNC dealing unfairly with Bernie's supporters, and he had access to the information. Now someone claims he gave Wikileaks bunches of information.
Not much to go on, but when investigations start, who knows where they'll lead.
Terry

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #316 on: May 17, 2017, 11:39:35 AM »
There's something I don't get. The argument is that Trump fired Comey to thwart the collusion investigation, right? He wants it to go away. But firing Comey only makes it worse. Now everyone is even more up in arms, and it's not like that was unforeseen.

This is kind of counterintuitive. I mean, we know he's nuts, but he's not that stupid.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #317 on: May 17, 2017, 12:42:18 PM »
Quote
There's something I don't get.

You're making progress if you now know that you don't get it.  THAT...is the first step.  And THAT was the core of my frustration with you.  You clearly DID NOT SEE WHAT WAS HAPPENING.  You didn't understand....the human psychology involved. 

Quote
The argument is that Trump fired Comey to thwart the collusion investigation, right? He wants it to go away. But firing Comey only makes it worse. Now everyone is even more up in arms, and it's not like that was unforeseen.

This is kind of counterintuitive. I mean, we know he's nuts, but he's not that stupid.

If you are waiting or expecting Donnie to be RATIONAL....then you have a VERY...VERY....LONG WAIT AHEAD OF YOU.

If you understood the history of Watergate.....or you understood the psychology behind a sociopath.....then you would understand.

Human psychology is MANY TIMES NOT RATIONAL.  Donnie is now like a cornered and wounded tiger. HE WILL DO ANYTHING.  And the trouble is....back in 2016....HE ALREADY DID WHAT HE WILL BE IMPEACHED FOR.

Donnie has ALWAYS BEEN A CON MAN.  HIS WHOLE LIFE.    Without Russian financing....he would be broke.  And yes.....3 years from now...maybe less....HE WILL BE BROKE.  PERIOD.  Because now....he clearly has NO BRAND that anyone wants to touch.

We will eventually get to the "juicy stuff" in due time.  For now...we are only up to "Watergate level".  It will go MUCH....MUCH....HIGHER.  And it will lead....hopefully....to some changes in some things regarding US elections.....as well as to some safeguards in removing someone in office.  Because without a STRONG FBI director like Comey.....we could have been toast.  And if Donnie were able to replace Comey with someone "loyal" to him....we could still be toast.

But don't expect anything RATIONAL from Trump.....  And certainly don't expect anything ETHICAL.  His delusional actions will only get worse until he is removed...

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #318 on: May 17, 2017, 01:07:19 PM »
Human psychology is at the HEART of what has happened to Trump.  In business....I see human psychology at work ALL THE TIME.  Good leaders have a grasp on human psychology, if only by the good grace of genetics.  Whether you are looking at sports.....and team like the Chicago Cubs under its new leader over the last few years.....or you're looking at politics or business. 

And we have to understand psychology.  If we understand psychology.....then we will see the "red flags" of something gone amiss.....much earlier than we would otherwise.  That is WHY many people didn't see this back in early 2016 or AT LEAST by the time of the Republican Convention.  Because those red flag events......MADE NO SENSE.  And there is ALWAYS a reason for things.

And....there is ALWAYS A PROCESS for things.  Even if it is an "ill conceived or random" process.   And the "process" for removing Donnie continues.  As his poll numbers continue to drop....more and more lemmings will jump from the good ship Titantic.  Not all people will jump from the ship.  But for Donnie to get impeached.....enough of them have to.  That will require about 10% of the Republicans in the US House of Representatives I believe (I have NOT done the actual math...but that is what I have read....so I'll check that at some point) in order to impeach him and move the "prosecution phase" to the Senate.

Look for Donnie's poll numbers to continue to weaken.  When they weaken enough....and when the clamors for impeachment grow loud enough....that next phase of the process will start.   Not before.

The process continues.......

   
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #319 on: May 17, 2017, 01:29:01 PM »
There's something I don't get. The argument is that Trump fired Comey to thwart the collusion investigation, right? He wants it to go away. But firing Comey only makes it worse. Now everyone is even more up in arms, and it's not like that was unforeseen.

This is kind of counterintuitive. I mean, we know he's nuts, but he's not that stupid.

I think there's an abundance of evidence that Trump is exactly that stupid.  He's got a limited skill set.  He, like most successful narcissists, knows how to work a crowd, how to manipulate, how to bully.  Not much else.  He's been working in high-money finance his whole life, but he calls up a friend at 2 AM to ask whether a stronger or weaker dollar is better for the US?  That's just plain stupid.

In the midst of health care legislation crafting, he publicly exclaims "nobody knew health care was so complicated." That's just plain stupid.  Want more examples?  I could go on and on and on.

But firing Comey wasn't stupid, just a desperate "Hail Mary pass." If Comey were hell-bent on pursuing the Flynn investigation, and if that investigation were likely to show impeachable misconduct by Trump, then there was nothing else Trump could do.  Fire Comey, hire a sympathetic mercenary, and hope to ride out the storm.

The ultimate stupidity Trump has displayed is failing to recognize that running a shady, sleazy set of businesses is incompatible with being President -- the intense, relentless scrutiny of holding high office makes the downfall of a modern scoundrel inevitable.

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #320 on: May 17, 2017, 01:51:08 PM »
1:  First....SteveMDFP...ABSOLUTELY RIGHT (on all parts of your post).  Donnie is not very smart.

2:  Second....and in a very real way, unrelated to RussiaGate.  While EVERYONE is now watching RussiaGate, one of the interesting things for me to keep my eye on is how QUICKLY the world is HELL BENT ON MOVING TO RENEWABLE POWER (both for transportation AND home/business use).  Fascinating....and as I noted several months ago, is one of the bedrocks of a strengthening economy world wide....and will be for the next 10+ years....

For me....we will get to the point (hopefully) that it is a foregone conclusion that Donnie was in bed with the Russians...and then the process of getting enough Republicans to impeach him can take place.  When that takes place....I will "move on" from this issue.  There are MANY MANY other important issues.  Like...how fast can we move society towards renewable energy.......how can we improve politics and economics in the US and the world....how can we "put back" some of the protections that the "black dude" put in place when he was president and that Donnie has now destroyed....  Some of that is being done on a state-by-state basis...but more has to be done.

But as I tried to explain to some folks.....we have to put out the forest fire that is Donnie FIRST...before we can move on to those other VERY IMPORTANT ISSUES....
 

 
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #321 on: May 17, 2017, 02:42:24 PM »
There's something I don't get. The argument is that Trump fired Comey to thwart the collusion investigation, right? He wants it to go away. But firing Comey only makes it worse. Now everyone is even more up in arms, and it's not like that was unforeseen.

This is kind of counterintuitive. I mean, we know he's nuts, but he's not that stupid.

I think there's an abundance of evidence that Trump is exactly that stupid.  He's got a limited skill set.
...
Yeah, very limited. He got that far because he had a rich dad and excellent and ruthless lawyers. And he sure thinks his success story is his work, not theirs. Paradigmatic Dunning-Krüger.
But:

Quote
But firing Comey wasn't stupid, just a desperate "Hail Mary pass." If Comey were hell-bent on pursuing the Flynn investigation, and if that investigation were likely to show impeachable misconduct by Trump, then there was nothing else Trump could do.  Fire Comey, hire a sympathetic mercenary, and hope to ride out the storm.
Methinks it was beyond stupid, a case for gerontological psychiatry:
He comitted an impeachable offense, obstruction of justice, in order to delay an investigation that hasn't yet produced any public evidence of something impeachable. He has grown the storm he wants to ride out. More people more furious. More FBI agents working overtime. More leaks. More Republicans trying to cover their asses. Trump is now dead in the water, at least half a year earlier than necessary.

If it isn't old age mental illness, then it is an abyss of corruption that makes him and his advisers so nervous and hysterical that they can't even grasp basic tactics anymore.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 02:47:59 PM by Martin Gisser »

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #322 on: May 17, 2017, 02:58:33 PM »
Donnie Tiny Hands is definitely as stupid as he seems if he thought he could ride out the storm, after increasing it tenfold by firing Comey.

Quote
If it isn't old age mental illness, then it is an abyss of corruption that makes him and his advisers so nervous and hysterical that they can't even grasp basic tactics anymore.

Yes, that's what surprises me. They ran a pretty smart/good* campaign, tactically speaking, even though HRC was probably the biggest gift the DNC could have given them.

* And evil, of course. I'm looking at it from a US election perspective, where everything goes.

---

I just hope this forest fire doesn't take years to extinguish, because all those other important issues are enormously urgent. There's also a high likelihood that trust in the US political system sinks to an even lower point, especially if Trump doesn't exit because of his policies, but rather because of his personality and the 'collusion'. It's possible that to a lot of people this means that no matter who you vote in, if the elites don't approve, that person won't even finish one term. Either he/she gets shouted out, or he/she is liquidated. I don't know how you get that trust back (and thus inspire people to do something for their country and fellow men), especially given the state of both duopoly parties.

And I also hope that this president sets a precedent for other presidents. If Trump and his collusion becomes the standard, there will be no more financing and training of terrorists, no more illegal wars, no more meddling in the elections of other nations (no matter their resources) and no more receiving of millions of dollars in donations by banks, oligarchs and foreign governments.
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #323 on: May 17, 2017, 04:10:06 PM »
Tick...tick....tick....tick....

https://www.leftscoop.com/2017/05/busted-paul-ryan-mitch-mcconnell-caught-engaging-highly-illegal-activity-rains-pours/

From twitter entry of Claude Taylor:

"Starting to hear chatter that there are intercepts with Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell discussing funneling illegal money into campaign."

NOT YET CORRABORATED..........but will not be surprising.  As I have said too many times already.....most people don't understand the DEPTH and BREADTH of RussiaGate yet.  They will eventually, as long as the FBI is able to do their job.

It will be interesting to see when the information about Donnie working with FOX News comes out (yea....I'm talking about YOU SEAN).  That will be fun.....

We have a LONG....LONG......way to go before all the roaches are brought out into the sunlight of truth to be friend.

Tick.....tick....tick....tick...   

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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #324 on: May 17, 2017, 04:29:47 PM »
By the way.....IF Ryan is implicated.....we would then be looking at President Oren Hatch (of Utah) eventually..... :o

It will depend on the timing of "when people go."  For instance.....if Ryan were to step down from his speaker position and then be replaced by someone BEFORE Donnie is booted....then Ryan's replacement would be the new president (assuming of course....than Mikey Pence is also booted).

That is ALL CONJECTURE RIGHT NOW.....but just something to file away.  At some point in the coming months....it could interesting as people AND the Republican party "jockey" to see who the replacement will be....and who the Republicans WANT it to be (by replacing Ryan with whoever they want in the President's role eventually).



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pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #325 on: May 17, 2017, 05:45:43 PM »
As noted previously the most likely direct linkage to Trump and Russia collusion would have its genesis in money laundering and/or RICO related violations.  The WSJ (property of Fox News owner Murdoch) broke a story this morning on Russian connected financing of a Trump property in Canada, where the links begin with Putin and end with Trump.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-state-run-bank-financed-deal-involving-trump-hotel-partner-1495031708

"U.S. investigators are looking into any ties between Russian financial institutions, Mr. Trump and anyone in his orbit, according to a person familiar with the probe. As part of the investigation, they’re examining interactions between Mr. Trump, his associates and VEB, which is now subject to U.S. sanctions, said another person familiar with the matter. The Toronto deal adds a new element to the list of known connections between Mr. Trump’s associates and Russia."

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #326 on: May 17, 2017, 06:42:52 PM »
There are MANY moving parts to RussiaGate.   But two of the more interesting things for me to watch will be (1) involvement of banks .....from Deutchebank to other major banks that MAY be "complicit"...to banks in Cyprus....(2) to Wilbur Ross who is a cabinet member of Donnie's cabinet....and has many, many ties to various banks.

Me thinks....that there may be some bankers that are now a tad worried about their complicity in various deals over the past two or more years.  Not that bankers would EVER do anything wrong mind you. ;)

I hope that some of you are now beginning to see how COMPLEX this who shindig is....especially compared to Watergate.  Watergate was a "nothing burger" compared to what we will see when this puppy is wrapped up.  As the layers of the onion continue to be peeled off in the many months ahead.....there are going to be a lot of roaches scrambling for cover.





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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #327 on: May 17, 2017, 09:29:46 PM »
The linked Palmer Report article is entitled: "Rachel Maddow confirms Palmer Report’s earlier report about Trump-related grand jury in New York".

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/maddow-palmer-report-grand-jury/2887/

Extract: "… this evening, Rachel Maddow confirmed on-air on MSNBC that a grand jury has issued a subpoena for New York based Trump associate Paul Manafort."
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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #328 on: May 17, 2017, 10:00:12 PM »
Can anyone explain to me what that Seth Rich thing is about? Is there any evidence that he did or didn't leak those DNC mails?

I was so busy last year looking at Arctic sea ice that all this stuff went past me (given that I don't own a TV and only keep an eye on a handful of (mostly Dutch and Austrian) news sources).
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #329 on: May 17, 2017, 11:58:14 PM »
Can anyone explain to me what that Seth Rich thing is about? Is there any evidence that he did or didn't leak those DNC mails?
Faux news. No evidence. See CNN quote below.


05/16/2017 04:43 pm ET
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fox-news-conspiracy-theory-wikileaks-seth-rich_us_591b493ee4b07d5f6ba6d027
Quote
Fox Pushes WikiLeaks Murder Conspiracy From Man Who Warned Of Armed Lesbian Pedophiles

Fox News and the network’s affiliate in Washington, D.C., are advancing a conspiracy theory about the death of former Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich, suggesting in two stories on Monday that Rich’s slaying may be the result of his supposed links to WikiLeaks.

The only named source in both stories is Rod Wheeler, a former Washington Metro Police investigator and Fox News contributor who has previously claimed that “a national network” of armed lesbians was roaming the country and sexually assaulting children. ...

Police have said Rich was fatally shot in July during a botched robbery attempt. But Reddit users and online conspiracy sites were quick to argue that Rich played a part in WikiLeaks obtaining and leaking thousands of internal DNC emails — implying that Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party had him killed as retaliation.

Multiple sources have publicly contradicted this, however: The U.S. intelligence community released a report in January concluding that WikiLeaks obtained its material last summer from Russia-backed hackers working as part of a Russian effort to help make Donald Trump president.

...

May 17, 2017: 6:49 AM ET
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/16/media/seth-rich-family-response-claims-of-wikileaks-contact/index.html
Quote
Story on DNC staffer's murder dominated conservative media -- hours later it fell apart
...

But Tuesday afternoon, Wheeler told CNN he had no evidence to suggest Rich had contacted Wikileaks before his death.

Wheeler instead said he only learned about the possible existence of such evidence through the reporter he spoke to for the FoxNews.com story. He explained that the comments he made to WTTG-TV were intended to simply preview Fox News' Tuesday story.
...

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #330 on: May 18, 2017, 12:14:24 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "Senate Intelligence Committee invites Comey to testify publicly".

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/senate-intel-committee-invites-comey-to-testify-asks-for-any-memos/

Extract: "The Senate Intelligence Committee on Wednesday formally invited fired FBI Director James Comey to testify, and asked FBI Acting Director Andrew McCabe for any memos or other notes the FBI possesses from Comey about his communications with administration officials.

The committee made the requests Wednesday in two separate letters, one to Comey and one to McCabe. In one letter, the committee asked Comey to testify in both open and closed sessions. Comey has previously said he would only testify in an open session. In the other letter, the committee asked McCabe for "any notes or memorandum" Comey prepared about any communications he had with senior White House or Department of Justice officials about Russia-related investigations. The request came the day after a report that President Donald Trump asked Comey to drop an investigation into former national security adviser Michael Flynn's ties to Russia and Turkey, per a memo Comey wrote after his February meeting with the president.

Speaking with reporters on Capitol Hill, the committee's ranking member, Democratic Sen. Mark Warner, said he is pretty confident Comey will testify and hopes the "majority" of what the ousted FBI director says will be in an open-hearing setting. But some testimony will necessarily be behind closed doors, because "unlike the White House, we treat classified information with the appropriate respect and follow the rules," Warner said."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #331 on: May 18, 2017, 12:24:33 AM »
The linked article is entitled: "Special Counsel Will Take Over FBI Russia Campaign Interference Investigation".  I hope they give him an adequate budget, as this investigation is getting bigger all the time.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/special-counsel-will-take-over-fbi-russia-campaign-interference-investigation-n761271

Extract: "Bowing to public and Congressional pressure, Deputy U.S. Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed former FBI Director Bob Mueller on Wednesday to be a special counsel overseeing the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 campaign, Justice Department officials said.

Mueller will take command of the prosecutors and FBI agents who are working on the far reaching Russia investigation, which spans multiple FBI field offices on both coasts.

Mueller led the FBI for 12 years under Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama. He is second only to J. Edgar Hoover for longest tenure for an FBI chief."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #332 on: May 18, 2017, 01:25:35 AM »
Paul Ryan has some 'splaining to do.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #333 on: May 18, 2017, 02:38:01 AM »
Mitch has 'splaining to do as well.  Things may get even CRAZIER over next couple of weeks.  I wonder how many agents are watching our pal SEAN at TASS (previously known as FOX)?

Tick....tick......tick......tick
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #334 on: May 18, 2017, 03:49:58 AM »
The linked Palmer Report is unverified, but if true is mind blowing:

“Multiple reports suggest Donald Trump gave contents of James Comey’s FBI computer to Russia”

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/computer-comey-russia/2905/

Extract: “It’s now well established that Donald Trump fired FBI Director James Comey the day before he met with the Russians in the Oval Office and gave them classified information, setting off a firestorm of controversy. But now multiple reports point to Trump also having given the Russians something else during that meeting: the contents of James Comey’s computer.

As always, you can take these reports for what you think they’re worth. But it’s worth noting that Trump made the bizarre decision to send Schiller of all people to deliver the termination notice, suggesting some sort of hijinks.“
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #335 on: May 18, 2017, 06:22:30 AM »
Wow
A bold move going straight to the heart of the matter.


We, the Democrats, progressives, liberals, environmentalists, or whatever we call ourselves today face a pivotal decision. Do we accept blame for the outcome of the recent election, or do we externalize it, blaming everyone but ourselves and our parties leaders?
Terry

I love Terry a lot.  I wish he would of kept the 2nd post to just this.   

Very profound.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #336 on: May 18, 2017, 07:56:11 AM »


 . . . There's also a high likelihood that trust in the US political system sinks to an even lower point, especially if Trump doesn't exit because of his policies, but rather because of his personality and the 'collusion'. It's possible that to a lot of people this means that no matter who you vote in, if the elites don't approve, that person won't even finish one term. Either he/she gets shouted out, or he/she is liquidated. I don't know how you get that trust back (and thus inspire people to do something for their country and fellow men), especially given the state of both duopoly parties.


Quite the opposite.  Trump is besieged only because of his own corruption and idiocy, not because he's targeted by any 'elites.'  Not because of cruel and stupid policies, either.  Massive protests of his anti-muslim travel ban, for example, didn't have a whiff of effect on the actual policy, judicial review is what nullified it.  The overall constitutional system worked, and sane people are reassured by that.

The overall constitutional, legal, official system (plus leaks/whistleblowers) is what has completely emasculated Trump's ability now to push through ANY of his neo-fascist agenda through Congress.  The overall constitutional, legal, official system is grinding the gears of investigation that will expose corruption and illegal acts, and remove this supremely dangerous, unstable man from power.

The American people will more carefully scrutinize those who seek high office, but will be reassured that the overall constitutional system is effective and sound.

Nixon's Watergate scandal didn't result in public apathy or cynicism after he was gone, it created an enduring focus on clean, open government.  It took a few decades for the public to lose focus and allow corrupt, sleazy people to thrive in government leadership positions. 

History isn't exactly repeating the Watergate process, but it's rhyming.  The consequences of Russiagate (etc) are likely to result, again, in some rejuvenation of public engagement and focus on cleaner, more transparent governance.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #337 on: May 18, 2017, 08:29:00 AM »
The linked Palmer Report is unverified, but if true is mind blowing:

“Multiple reports suggest Donald Trump gave contents of James Comey’s FBI computer to Russia”

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/computer-comey-russia/2905/

Extract: “It’s now well established that Donald Trump fired FBI Director James Comey the day before he met with the Russians in the Oval Office and gave them classified information, setting off a firestorm of controversy. But now multiple reports point to Trump also having given the Russians something else during that meeting: the contents of James Comey’s computer.

As always, you can take these reports for what you think they’re worth. But it’s worth noting that Trump made the bizarre decision to send Schiller of all people to deliver the termination notice, suggesting some sort of hijinks.“

The report doesn't make sense, that Schiller went into Comey's office and simply copied information off the hard drive.  Government computers have encrypted hard drives with 2-factor authorization.  Shiller's a bodyguard, not a computer geek.  He could have opened the computer and pulled out the hard drive, that's possible.  The only other alternative is that he booted the computer with his own (or illegally borrowed) credentials, which leaves an indelible computer trail on servers--but even that wouldn't readily permit access to Comey's files.  Either way, there'd be hard evidence of felony-level crimes immediately apparent.  And the felony could not have happened without conspiracy with others, specifically including Trump.

It's hard to believe Trump *and* Schiller could be this stupid.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #338 on: May 18, 2017, 10:24:30 AM »
The linked Palmer Report is unverified, but if true is mind blowing:

“Multiple reports suggest Donald Trump gave contents of James Comey’s FBI computer to Russia”

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/computer-comey-russia/2905/

Extract: “It’s now well established that Donald Trump fired FBI Director James Comey the day before he met with the Russians in the Oval Office and gave them classified information, setting off a firestorm of controversy. But now multiple reports point to Trump also having given the Russians something else during that meeting: the contents of James Comey’s computer.

As always, you can take these reports for what you think they’re worth. But it’s worth noting that Trump made the bizarre decision to send Schiller of all people to deliver the termination notice, suggesting some sort of hijinks.“

The report doesn't make sense, that Schiller went into Comey's office and simply copied information off the hard drive.  Government computers have encrypted hard drives with 2-factor authorization.  Shiller's a bodyguard, not a computer geek.  He could have opened the computer and pulled out the hard drive, that's possible.  The only other alternative is that he booted the computer with his own (or illegally borrowed) credentials, which leaves an indelible computer trail on servers--but even that wouldn't readily permit access to Comey's files.  Either way, there'd be hard evidence of felony-level crimes immediately apparent.  And the felony could not have happened without conspiracy with others, specifically including Trump.

It's hard to believe Trump *and* Schiller could be this stupid.


I bolded one statement in a rather lengthy back and forth.


When crazies are shouting a myriad of often conflicting things from the balconies, the bleachers and possibly the loonie bin, noting that it doesn't make sense can be the first step in separating the wheat from the chaff.
Once we've noted that a certain statement doesn't make sense we can move out to whoever wrote the statement, whoever published the statement and whoever promoted the statement.


Are they too ignorant of the subject to realize that it doesn't make sense, do they believe the readership is too ignorant to notice?
 I believe our own Philosopher President once offered a short homily on the topic. "Fool me once, shame on --shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again"


I think we agree, the past is over. :-\


Terry

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #339 on: May 18, 2017, 11:40:56 AM »
The report doesn't make sense, that Schiller went into Comey's office and simply copied information off the hard drive.  Government computers have encrypted hard drives with 2-factor authorization.  Shiller's a bodyguard, not a computer geek.  He could have opened the computer and pulled out the hard drive, that's possible.  The only other alternative is that he booted the computer with his own (or illegally borrowed) credentials, which leaves an indelible computer trail on servers--but even that wouldn't readily permit access to Comey's files.  Either way, there'd be hard evidence of felony-level crimes immediately apparent.  And the felony could not have happened without conspiracy with others, specifically including Trump.

It's hard to believe Trump *and* Schiller could be this stupid.
OTOH it is not easy to believe that a U.S. public servant's computer should not be accessible by the man who has the Red Button.

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #340 on: May 18, 2017, 11:48:32 AM »

OTOH it is not easy to believe that a U.S. public servant's computer should not be accessible by the man who has the Red Button.
I remember him. Short skinny guy whose hair made Lucy's look beige. Didn't know anyone'd had him for decades.
 8)

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #341 on: May 18, 2017, 12:01:32 PM »
this forest fire doesn't take years to extinguish
Dumpster fire, as Dan Rather of Watergate fame put it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dumpster-fire-slang-history_us_576474d4e4b015db1bc97923

But it was just smouldering until to/yester day. Now the smoke finally got hot enough to catch flame...
Either Trump resigns within the next days (my bet is on today) or the U.S. is toast, pocketed by Putin. (Oops, didn't I pontificate on the dangers of the tertium non datur? :) )
Finally, time to me relax, grab popcorn and just wait for news to come or not...

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #342 on: May 18, 2017, 12:41:12 PM »

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #343 on: May 18, 2017, 12:59:56 PM »
this forest fire doesn't take years to extinguish
Dumpster fire, as Dan Rather of Watergate fame put it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dumpster-fire-slang-history_us_576474d4e4b015db1bc97923

But it was just smouldering until to/yester day. Now the smoke finally got hot enough to catch flame...
Either Trump resigns within the next days (my bet is on today) or the U.S. is toast, pocketed by Putin. (Oops, didn't I pontificate on the dangers of the tertium non datur? :) )
Finally, time to me relax, grab popcorn and just wait for news to come or not...


Martin
I apologist for not having read your link yet, but I'm reading Trump's resignation as something that you really believe will happen in the very near future. I'm not in country and am in no position to gauge the temper there.


I follow the internet, not news sources, and to say I'm alarmed at your comments is an understatement.


I've been assured on many occasions that Putin is not the target, that Trump is. Yet you fear that Putin will do what?


The US & NATO have been pushing closer to Russia's borders for a long time, The Weeklies and Monthlies have been demonizing Putin since the Sochi Olympics.
I was sure that if Hillary had become president, war with Russia would follow quite rapidly. Are you telling me that Trump will be deposed and the war that the neo-cons have been slavering for will follow immediately after Trump's out of the way?
If so.
Don't worry about the civil war that Trump's ouster will provoke.
Say goodbye to everyone you care for.


I'll take the time to read your article now.
Bye
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #344 on: May 18, 2017, 01:25:51 PM »
Martin


Your opening article is from June of 2016, updated in January of this year. Hardly counts as news.


Your last article has Putin playing chess against the West. As far back as Nixon and Kissinger it was recognized that Soviet, now Russian strategy, is based on the game of Go. Any source that mentions Putin's "chess moves", is 50 years out of date, and almost certainly not worth my time to read.


If you force Trump to resign, the South will Rise again, bringing the blue collar boys along for the ride. I know you'll be ready with your loaded popcorn machine, but take a look at Ukraine to see how well these things usually work out.


"Put them to the knife" has a nice ring to it, don't you think? and that was the government boys.
Bye
Terry

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #345 on: May 18, 2017, 01:44:08 PM »
Before I grab the popcorn, here's the play's book:
https://patribotics.blog/2017/01/17/dear-mr-putin-lets-play-chess-louise-mensch-trump-russia/

I'm amazed at how someone can write in such an omniscient way (even knowing people's thoughts and motivations) and with such relish. This person must really pine for the Cold War with all its spy heroics and paranoia.  :D

I'm used to reading this kind of stuff on extreme right-wing conspiracy sites, but it seems the left is catching up. Where's the scepticism?
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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #346 on: May 18, 2017, 01:59:12 PM »
I'm also getting tired of the house of cards built upon 'sources close to the intelligence community report'. Why are there so few hard facts from known, tangible sources? It all reads like a John le Carré novel, where a handful of characters are all-powerful and determine the fate of the world.

I'm sure ratings are soaring, as everyone seems to be in a permanent frenzy. But maybe that's just my impression, because I don't have the time to venture far outside the ASIF.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #347 on: May 18, 2017, 02:22:59 PM »
Quote
I'm used to reading this kind of stuff on extreme right-wing conspiracy sites, but it seems the left is catching up. Where's the scepticism?

I'm not going to apologize for "Patriotbots"...or whatever that site was that Martin linked.  BUT...like ALL SOURCES...whether direct (via people you know) or through the mainstream media or the "blog media".....like PalmerReport....they ALL should looked at with a SKEPTICAL EYE.

That is the true meaning of skeptic:  Someone who is skeptical of EVERYTHING.   Not just one side or the other.  Just as...I am sure....that you view Jimmy Dore with a skeptical eye. ;)

As a source "racks up wins" (in other words....their batting average is close to a thousand)....then you should gain a "comfort" (but NEVER an ABSOLUTE comfort).

But what happens when someone MISSES SOMETHING that turns out to be true?  Say....for instance....the largest political scandal of modern times?  Should someone view THAT source more skeptically for missing something....or massively underestimating something like that?  I would think so...but that is just me.



 



FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #348 on: May 18, 2017, 02:58:58 PM »
I'm also getting tired of the house of cards built upon 'sources close to the intelligence community report'. Why are there so few hard facts from known, tangible sources?

Because of the nature of the allegations and suspicions, the relevant evidence would be from classified information.  A *named source* would be on an express train to a prison term.  The sort of leaks springing up now can *only* come via un-named sources. 

Any un-named source should be viewed with some skepticism, but not dismissal.  A whole raft of un-named sources, with un-named corroboration, reported by generally reliable media (Washington Post, NYTimes, etc.) should be considered reasonably reliable in overall thrust.

There's not just smoke from the white house, there's a real fire.

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #349 on: May 18, 2017, 03:09:53 PM »
Sorry, my dumpster fire link was meant for English MA level explanation of that wörd. (Neven is a genius language professional.)

That "spy novel" link is by Louise Mensch, who got many things quite right. As an ex math TA I can smell degrees of consistency :) . She is one of the best-connected commentators to them spies and them hackerz, European and U.S. (E.g. just ponder what she wrote about Comey and the FBI, January 2017. I bet (but don't "believe") we'll soon see a more official detail: Quite probably Comey trapped the Donald, who swallowed the poisoned bait.)

I still dearly remember the DVD Neven gave me with documentary films. One was about Edward L. Bernays, nephew of Sigmund Freud, father of c20th "public relations". Psychology and technology have advanced meanwhile. And now methinks Russia has advanced "information warfare" to a new niveau.

Alas I care only a little bit about human psychology, because I care for planet Earth. Someone else will elaborate one day.

Before I go to bed/nap, the following German poem is my reply to the wörds "conspiracy" and "scepticism". It exhibits a vulnerability I've mainly seen on the left, paradigmatically here, which I bet (but don't "believe") had been exploited by the Russian iWar on the West:

Quote
Christian Morgenstern (1871–1914)
Die unmögliche Tatsache

Palmström, etwas schon an Jahren,
wird an einer Straßenbeuge
und von einem Kraftfahrzeuge
überfahren.

»Wie war« (spricht er, sich erhebend
und entschlossen weiterlebend)
»möglich, wie dies Unglück, ja –:
daß es überhaupt geschah?

Ist die Staatskunst anzuklagen
in bezug auf Kraftfahrwagen?
Gab die Polizeivorschrift
hier dem Fahrer freie Trift?

Oder war vielmehr verboten,
hier Lebendige zu Toten
umzuwandeln, – kurz und schlicht:
Durfte hier der Kutscher nicht –?«

Eingehüllt in feuchte Tücher,
prüft er die Gesetzesbücher
und ist alsobald im klaren:
Wagen durften dort nicht fahren!

Und er kommt zu dem Ergebnis:
»Nur ein Traum war das Erlebnis.
Weil«, so schließt er messerscharf,
»nicht sein kann, was nicht sein darf.«

(lost patience with stupid google. There's an engl. transl. by Max Knight out there:
Quote
For ... that which must not, cannot be.
)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 03:19:07 PM by Martin Gisser »