Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Russia, Russia, Russia  (Read 451542 times)

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #500 on: June 06, 2017, 05:23:47 PM »
More information on an investigation on Kushner from the Palmer Report:

"Report: DOJ’s International Criminal Division targets Jared Kushner in Trump-Russia scandal"

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/doj-kushner-criminal/3338/

Extract: "“A source in DOJ confirms that Jared Kushner is being interviewed by AG’s International Criminal Division,” political insider Claude Taylor has revealed (link). Best we can tell, that’s an informal reference to the Department of Justice Criminal Division’s Office of International Affairs."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #501 on: June 06, 2017, 05:57:04 PM »
The linked Slate article gives a 40% chance of Trump leaving office before the end of his term:

"Today’s Impeach-O-Meter: Three Things Happened to Trump Today That Were Bad"

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/06/05/trump_impeachment_chances_tri_pronged_bad_news_edition.html
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 07:05:06 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #502 on: June 06, 2017, 06:31:17 PM »
Trump is planning to continue to cozy-up to Putin despite Russiagate:

"Tillerson: Trump wants me to fix US-Russia relations"

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/06/politics/tillerson-us-russia-relationship/
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

magnamentis

  • Guest
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #503 on: June 06, 2017, 07:00:22 PM »
Mankind has such a very long way to go....and it starts with looking for the truth, and calling out those that lie.

should be repeated all over the place on a daily basis and be amended with a statement about envy LOL Envy is the root of all evel, even though a bit bold and short, true enough nevertheless.

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #504 on: June 07, 2017, 08:30:49 PM »
I guess that Trump likes to obstruct justice by cherry picking what is to be investigated:

"James Comey testimony: Trump asked me to let Flynn investigation go"

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/07/politics/james-comey-testimony-released/index.html

Extract: "… according to a copy of his opening remarks posted online.

"He then said, 'I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go,'" Comey said in remarks posted on the website of the Senate intelligence committee. "I replied only that 'he is a good guy.' (In fact, I had a positive experience dealing with Mike Flynn when he was a colleague as Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency at the beginning of my term at FBI.) I did not say I would 'let this go.'""
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5418
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 525
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #505 on: June 07, 2017, 09:40:06 PM »
"I've never felt pressured to do anything illegal."
"I've never been directed to do anything illegal."


Next witness please


[size=inherit]"In my time of service in interacting with the President of the United States, or anybody in his administration, I have never been pressured, I have never felt pressure to intervene or interfere in any way with shaping intelligence in a political way or in relationship to an ongoing investigation"[/size][/font]
[size=inherit][/size]


First Rogers, then Coats.


We are investigating the Russian's aren't we?

Archimid

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 303
  • Likes Given: 184
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #506 on: June 07, 2017, 10:38:01 PM »
Full text: James Comey statement to Senate intelligence committee on Trump contact

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/07/james-comey-trump-russia-testimony-2017-239253


Juicy bits:

Quote
A few moments later, the President said, “I need loyalty, I expect loyalty.” I didn’t move, speak, or change my facial expression in any way during the awkward silence that followed. We simply looked at each other in silence. The conversation then moved on, but he returned to the subject near the end of our dinner.

Quote
The President then returned to the topic of Mike Flynn, saying, “He is a good guy and has been through a lot.” He repeated that Flynn hadn’t done anything wrong on his calls with the Russians, but had misled the Vice President. He then said, “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.”

I imagine that in his mind , Trump believed Comey was deep inside another nationalist racist because Comey helped him win the elections. So he tried to make private veiled conversation to see if they could come to underground terms. He didn't succeed so he fired him.

Trump needs someone willing to look the other way and I bet he'll get it.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1455
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 196
  • Likes Given: 18
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #507 on: June 08, 2017, 03:21:41 AM »
"I've never felt pressured to do anything illegal."
"I've never been directed to do anything illegal."


Next witness please


[size=inherit]"In my time of service in interacting with the President of the United States, or anybody in his administration, I have never been pressured, I have never felt pressure to intervene or interfere in any way with shaping intelligence in a political way or in relationship to an ongoing investigation"[/size][/font]
[size=inherit][/size]


First Rogers, then Coats.


We are investigating the Russian's aren't we?

Public statements by politicians and administration officials have to be parsed *very* carefully.  The Justice Department enjoys great discretion in what cases to investigate, and what investigations to drop.  Trump asked for the Flynn investigation to be dropped.  That's asking Justice to exercise its legal discretion; it wouldn't be illegal for Justice to comply.
However, Trump asking for that is still obstruction of justice, a crime.

The truth of these statements does not imply that Trump is innocent of the crimes he's suspected of committing.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #508 on: June 08, 2017, 01:15:45 PM »
You can tell that Donnie and his klan understand that he has to keep his poll numbers out of the toilet.  The have been running a couple of different ads:  One, to hammer away at Comey....and another to tell everyone how wonderful Donnie has been.

Keep in mind a couple of things:  Mueller's investigation is going to be MUCH...MUCH more involved than Watergate.  Money laundering, international banking....this is going  to take a long time.  Donnie will have to get the investigation shut down in order to survive.  And Donnie has his political and economic well being at stake.

Strap in for another year + political rugby.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 10:09:16 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #509 on: June 08, 2017, 10:13:36 PM »
Two people I now expect to be called to testify:  Jeff Sessions and Mike Pence.  Executive privalege will likely be invoked...so I don't expect them to testify.  But they will be asked.  Perception is everything.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5418
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 525
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #510 on: June 09, 2017, 12:53:29 AM »
Two people I now expect to be called to testify:  Jeff Sessions and Mike Pence.  Executive privalege will likely be invoked...so I don't expect them to testify.  But they will be asked.  Perception is everything.
That is precisely the root of the problem. Perception after a long campaign is what brought Trump to power. Perception after a long media campaign may take his power away.


The perception part of this equation should have ended with the election. What comes next, until the next election, needs to be based on facts. It's not whether Trump is perceived as having cheated to get elected, it's about whether Trump actually cheated to get elected.


If Trump did cheat, and if that can be proven, then he should be removed from office, even though this may cost Democrats dearly in the next election cycle.
If Trump is perceived as having cheated, and this perception brings him down before the next election, then this is an abrogation of his democratic victory at the polls. It makes a mockery of the democratic process.


Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. America's flawed democracy is more important than Trump's flawed presidency.


Democrats claimed Trump was under investigation by the FBI, Trump claimed he had been told by Comey that he was not under investigation. Comey testified that Trump was not under investigation and that he told him so on three occasions.
My perception is that in this instance Trump told the truth and the Democrats were at best "mistaken".


Comey was instructed by his boss not to use the words "under investigation" when referring to the FBI investigation of the Clinton campaign. He complied, but claims he felt "very uneasy" when calling an "investigation" a "matter". If what he testified to is true then he was being pressured, but not from the Trump forces.


How the media spins these apparent facts to Trump's disadvantage is beyond my perception.


Terry

Archimid

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 303
  • Likes Given: 184
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #511 on: June 09, 2017, 02:10:13 AM »
Comey's testimony was devastating. He was very clear that the President made veiled requests to stop the investigation on Quinn. The dinner was even more disturbing. The president required personal loyalty from the Director of the FBI. The FBI director feared being alone with the president because he kept asking him stop an ongoing investigation.

The investigation was on the National Security Advisor appointed by Trump, who lied to the vice president about contacts with Russians. The same person who took money from Turkey.

I'm starting to reach the conclusion that the damage is done. Trump will keep implementing the Russia's/Confederate America plan for the US. Republicans do not have the balls to stop him. Trump will keep eliminating the US foreign influence and he will keep the US as addicted to foreign oil as he possibly can.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #512 on: June 09, 2017, 03:09:39 AM »
The linked Palmer Report article presents logic for impeaching Pence if Trump is impeached:

“Impeachment double dip? James Comey implicates Mike Pence during his testimony”.

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/pence-impeachment-comey/3377/

Extract: “Amid a series of bombshells which Comey laid out about Trump, it went barely noticed that Comey also made clear Mike Pence knew about the concerns of Michael Flynn having been compromised the entire time. That means Pence lied to the American public when he insisted that he thought Flynn was clean. It also means that the entire excuse for firing Flynn, which was that he misled Pence about Russia, is out the window.”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

pileus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #513 on: June 09, 2017, 03:53:19 AM »
It remains difficult to see this Republican Senate convicting an impeached Trump.  However if Mueller presents a case that lays out collusion and treason that leads to Trump's conviction, the idea of a president Pence is very disconcerting.  Theocrat, backwards on social issues, very ineffective as executive of Indiana, and most of all he lies with grace and smoothness without batting an eye.  But more than capable of carrying out the GOP agenda.  The notion of a president Ryan is also nauseating.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #514 on: June 09, 2017, 05:01:11 AM »
There are likely going to be many things that Donnie may regret when all is said and done.  One item that may be near the top of his list.....will be Donnie insinuating that he may have taped his conversations with Jim Comey.

In "poker speak"......his hand was called by Comey today.  Now.....Donnie is going to be FORCED to show his hand relative to whether or not Donnie recorded his conversations with Comey.  The Senate will force him to either produce the tapes....or tell them why he insinuated that he had recorded them.

Given Donnie's history of taping his employees at work.....I suspect that Donnie has some tapes.  I also suspect that they may be at the bottom of a trash heap somewhere right now.  What would be very interesting.....is if someone outside the family knows that there are tapes.

Tick.....tick.....tick.....tick

Boy......this is going to make a great movie in a couple of years....
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Csnavywx

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 520
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #515 on: June 09, 2017, 07:05:35 AM »
I'd be willing to stake out a position counter to the opinion running in this thread. In fact, I'd put real money on it. No impeachment. Especially after today's testimony. It doesn't clear the bar. As much as some of us might have wanted it to -- it just doesn't.

Sen. Risch and Burr asked the questions and Comey's answers to them should pretty much end that. Mueller will have the final say on all that, but for those wishing for an immediate move for Trump's impeachment, Comey's testimony was a big setback.

In addition to the loyalty requests by Trump, I found the disclosure on Loretta Lynch's pressure in favor of Clinton and Comey's admission that he leaked the memos himself to try and get a special counsel appointed pretty amazing.

Sen. Angus King's statement and Comey's confirmation of Russia's intentions were pretty good highlights too.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 07:20:16 AM by Csnavywx »

Csnavywx

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 520
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #516 on: June 09, 2017, 07:21:59 AM »
The linked Slate article gives a 40% chance of Trump leaving office before the end of his term:

"Today’s Impeach-O-Meter: Three Things Happened to Trump Today That Were Bad"

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/06/05/trump_impeachment_chances_tri_pronged_bad_news_edition.html

It's obviously a fun, speculative graph. Odds-makers are much lower and lower after Comey's testimony today, the exact opposite of the author's changes.

Methinks there's some wishcasting going on.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #517 on: June 09, 2017, 05:06:18 PM »
No wishcasting.  Obstruction of justice is jaywalking compared to what is coming down the road.  Any light that Donnie sees is not the end of the tunnel....it is several trains lined up and waiting to run him over.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #518 on: June 09, 2017, 05:20:03 PM »
Two outcomes from yesterday that are VERY bad for Donnie:

1). They are comparing Comey to Trump....and Donnie's lies are on video.

2). More and more people are asking...."what is it that Russia has on Donnie?"
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 06:17:09 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #519 on: June 09, 2017, 05:24:25 PM »
It's obviously a fun, speculative graph. Odds-makers are much lower and lower after Comey's testimony today, the exact opposite of the author's changes.

Methinks there's some wishcasting going on.

The conservatives in the UK just learned a lesson in public backlash; which Trump & the GOP will likely learn in 2018 (any impeachment of Trump would likely be after 2018):

"Theresa May Promises 'Certainty' After Queen Approves Plan To Form Government"

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/09/532189115/in-defeat-for-theresa-may-conservatives-lose-majority-in-u-k-parliament

Extract: ""The prime minister called the election because she wanted a mandate," Corbyn said. "Well the mandate she's got is lost Conservative seats, lost votes, lost support and lost confidence. I would've thought that's enough to go, actually. And make way for a government that will be truly representative of all of the people of this country.""
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Csnavywx

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 520
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #520 on: June 09, 2017, 06:30:35 PM »
Well of course. Corbyn is a populist candidate on the left/far-left The Dems can capitalize on this by running *drumroll* populist candidates. If the Dems run watered-down corporatists, then the only reason they'll gain seats is due to strategic voting. Corbyn had a groundswell of grassroots populist support to help him along. Strategic voting alone isn't going to carry Democrats into a majority in either house in 2018, especially in the disadvantaged position they have in the Senate next cycle.

Archimid

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 303
  • Likes Given: 184
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #521 on: June 09, 2017, 06:37:20 PM »
Donald Trump's new FBI director pick has Russian ties of his own

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/06/08/trump-new-fbi-director-chris-wray-russian-ties-rosneft-gazprom-column/102603214/
 
Quote
On paper, Christopher Wray appears to be an excellent choice to serve as the next FBI director. He has "impeccable" academic credentials (Yale law school) and has had a decades-long distinguished career as a federal prosecutor and high-level official in the Department of Justice. As the criminal defense lawyer for New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie during the “Bridgegate” investigation, he did raise some eyebrows when it was learned that one of Christie’s “missing” cellphones mysteriously ended up in Wray’s possession, but this is unlikely to derail Wray’s confirmation.

The most troubling issue that Wray may face is the fact that his law firm — King & Spalding — represents Rosneft and Gazprom, two of Russia’s largest state-controlled oil companies.

Nothing to see here, mere coincidence right?
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Csnavywx

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 520
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #522 on: June 09, 2017, 06:38:35 PM »
No wishcasting.  Obstruction of justice is jaywalking compared to what is coming down the road.  Any light that Donnie sees is not the end of the tunnel....it is several trains lined up and waiting to run him over.

We've been hearing these statements from you (and many, many others) for months now. If Mueller's investigation comes back negative, will you finally change your mind?

By the way -- zero, and I mean zero of the Senators got any red meat on Trump being involved in collusion with the Russians directly. Quite the contrary. Might there be involvement by a satellite? Maybe. But Flynn is out now. Comey pretty much stated that Flynn isn't even a center-piece of the investigation. There's no chance Flynn testifies against Trump now, because there isn't anything there. As Chris Matthews said yesterday "there's no there there".

The most damaging things yesterday were Comey calling out the president for lying and the request for loyalty. Bad, but not impeachable.

Csnavywx

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 520
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #523 on: June 09, 2017, 06:45:55 PM »
Donald Trump's new FBI director pick has Russian ties of his own

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/06/08/trump-new-fbi-director-chris-wray-russian-ties-rosneft-gazprom-column/102603214/
 
Quote
On paper, Christopher Wray appears to be an excellent choice to serve as the next FBI director. He has "impeccable" academic credentials (Yale law school) and has had a decades-long distinguished career as a federal prosecutor and high-level official in the Department of Justice. As the criminal defense lawyer for New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie during the “Bridgegate” investigation, he did raise some eyebrows when it was learned that one of Christie’s “missing” cellphones mysteriously ended up in Wray’s possession, but this is unlikely to derail Wray’s confirmation.

The most troubling issue that Wray may face is the fact that his law firm — King & Spalding — represents Rosneft and Gazprom, two of Russia’s largest state-controlled oil companies.

Nothing to see here, mere coincidence right?

Wray has bi-partisan support and a good reputation. He's getting confirmed -- hands down.

Csnavywx

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 520
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #524 on: June 09, 2017, 06:52:13 PM »
Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate in here. The reason is that I see worrying signs of a lack of self-questioning and a definite lack of impartiality towards the evidence. Lest we convince ourselves that we're absolutely right on this issue. Lots of opinion pieces don't make something true.

I know ASLR takes pride in poking holes in the reticent scientist case as it concerns the climate sensitivity issue and as a result, the facts and the resultant picture they paint becomes more clear. Questioning, when done right, can be very useful.

Archimid

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 303
  • Likes Given: 184
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #525 on: June 09, 2017, 06:52:35 PM »
I wouldn't doubt it. But that won't change the fact that Donald Trump is running the foreign policy (NATO, UN, G7 disruption) and national policy (climate change denial) recommended to him by these "compromised" parties.

The GOP is also compromised and the few that aren't simply don't have the leverage to stop this.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #526 on: June 09, 2017, 08:38:58 PM »
I am more than happy to go along with the outcome of Mueller's investigation.  I am sure he will turn up more than the obvious I already can see. 
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1455
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 196
  • Likes Given: 18
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #527 on: June 09, 2017, 09:02:57 PM »

By the way -- zero, and I mean zero of the Senators got any red meat on Trump being involved in collusion with the Russians directly. Quite the contrary. Might there be involvement by a satellite? Maybe. But Flynn is out now. Comey pretty much stated that Flynn isn't even a center-piece of the investigation. There's no chance Flynn testifies against Trump now, because there isn't anything there.

I think this is a misinterpretation of the information at hand.  Comey specifically gave *public* testimony.  He hasn't yet testified in closed session of the Intelligence Committee.  That is, he could not at this point have revealed *any* classified information. 

We know from the Reality Winner indictment that there's more real meat (classified meat) about Russian meddling in the election.  Any facts about collusion with Russian efforts is surely classified, and Comey was prohibited about even so much as hinting at the existence of any classified information in this testimony. 

What we heard is almost certainly a small fraction of the relevant facts.

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #528 on: June 09, 2017, 11:12:50 PM »
Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate in here. The reason is that I see worrying signs of a lack of self-questioning and a definite lack of impartiality towards the evidence. Lest we convince ourselves that we're absolutely right on this issue. Lots of opinion pieces don't make something true.

I know ASLR takes pride in poking holes in the reticent scientist case as it concerns the climate sensitivity issue and as a result, the facts and the resultant picture they paint becomes more clear. Questioning, when done right, can be very useful.

I always appreciate a good devil's advocate; but from my seat I only see our US, & Global, political systems becoming more polarized.  Which in my opinion increases the probability that the world will follow a BAU (green or brown) pathway for several decades to come; which will likely make losers of us all.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #529 on: June 09, 2017, 11:44:21 PM »
Here is an image or Trump's approval ratings issued today by FiveThirtyEight:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Csnavywx

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 520
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #530 on: June 10, 2017, 02:26:16 AM »
Yes, I'm playing devil's advocate in here. The reason is that I see worrying signs of a lack of self-questioning and a definite lack of impartiality towards the evidence. Lest we convince ourselves that we're absolutely right on this issue. Lots of opinion pieces don't make something true.

I know ASLR takes pride in poking holes in the reticent scientist case as it concerns the climate sensitivity issue and as a result, the facts and the resultant picture they paint becomes more clear. Questioning, when done right, can be very useful.

I always appreciate a good devil's advocate; but from my seat I only see our US, & Global, political systems becoming more polarized.  Which in my opinion increases the probability that the world will follow a BAU (green or brown) pathway for several decades to come; which will likely make losers of us all.

You and I are probably more aligned on this point than we both realize.

As to the point, the UK result last night was further proof in the pudding, as it were. Whereas the center-left was the first to collapse in Europe, it now appears that the center-right is increasingly getting pinched as well, leaving increasingly large migrations of voting blocs moving to the far-left and far-right. This phenomenon is increasingly prevalent across virtually all OECD countries. These two groups have something in common, however. They're deeply populist and (generally) skeptical of globalization, favoring localization and nation-state sovereignty over the "futuristic" vision of a global community.

It's hard to see how global emission schemes and scenarios ultimately survive contact with that kind of geopolitical environment. Trump could be just the start, really.

pileus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #531 on: June 10, 2017, 02:34:37 AM »
Special Counsel Mueller is building a crack team.  Note the backgrounds and speciality areas of these individuals.  Criminal law.  Corporate malfeasance.  Organized crime.  Some of you here playing the "nothing to see here" card might be in for a surprise at the end of this process, or perhaps disappointment depending on your affections for certain world views and political figures.

Mueller Enlists Top Criminal Law Expert for Russia Probe

http://www.nationallawjournal.com/id=1202789177543/Mueller-Enlists-Top-Criminal-Law-Expert-for-Russia-Probe?cmp=share_twitter&slreturn=20170509201931

Special counsel Robert Mueller III has recruited the Justice Department’s top criminal law expert to help with his investigation of ties between the Trump presidential campaign and Russian officials.

Deputy solicitor general Michael Dreeben, who has argued more than 100 cases before the U.S. Supreme Court and oversees the Justice Department’s criminal appellate docket, will be assisting Mueller on a part-time basis, according to sources familiar with the arrangement.

While helping Mueller, Dreeben will continue in his role in the solicitor general’s office, with other lawyers in the office pitching in to help him with upcoming criminal cases.

The move signals that Mueller is seeking advice on the complexities that have arisen already in the investigations, including what constitutes obstruction of justice.

----------------------

The Man Investigating Donald Trump’s Russia Connections Is Assembling a Murderer’s Row of Prosecutors

http://www.gq.com/story/robert-mueller-russia-investigation-team

But Mueller’s biggest hire to date was [Andrew] Weissmann, who is taking a leave from his current post leading the Justice Department’s criminal fraud section. The two men have a long history together at the FBI, where Weissmann served as both the bureau’s general counsel from 2011 to 2013 and as Mueller’s special counsel in 2005.

Weissmann’s prosecution record includes overseeing the investigations into more than 30 people while running the Enron Task Force, including CEOs Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling. And while working in the U.S. attorney’s office in the eastern district of New York, he tried more than 25 cases involving members of the Genovese, Colombo and Gambino crime families.

Archimid

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 2402
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 303
  • Likes Given: 184
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #532 on: June 10, 2017, 02:41:25 AM »
That level of scrutiny I can live with. If Mueller clears the Trump team of wrong doing, I will stand corrected. However, I find that highly unlikely.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #533 on: June 10, 2017, 12:32:20 PM »
You and I are probably more aligned on this point than we both realize.

As to the point, the UK result last night was further proof in the pudding, as it were. Whereas the center-left was the first to collapse in Europe, it now appears that the center-right is increasingly getting pinched as well, leaving increasingly large migrations of voting blocs moving to the far-left and far-right. This phenomenon is increasingly prevalent across virtually all OECD countries. These two groups have something in common, however. They're deeply populist and (generally) skeptical of globalization, favoring localization and nation-state sovereignty over the "futuristic" vision of a global community.

It's hard to see how global emission schemes and scenarios ultimately survive contact with that kind of geopolitical environment. Trump could be just the start, really.

To me, the bottom line is protecting the future of our young people; who increasingly understand that the worldwide alt-right movement (for which Trump and Putin are poster children) represents older people clinging desperately to an unsustainable way of life.  Thus, the first linked Alternet article discusses how increasingly the youth vote is striking back against the alt-right; while the second linked article discusses how many GOP lawmakers are freaking out about the risks of going down with Trump's alt-right ship (which increases the prospect of pressure for Trump to resign).

"Brit Election Adds to Striking Global Trend in the U.S., France and Holland For Young People to Vote More Progressive, Often Embracing Socialism"

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/many-western-countries-young-people-are-moving-left

Extract: "Labour Party candidates won 63 percent of young voters in the UK election."

See also:
"Secret Recording Reveals GOP Lawmaker Freaking out About 'Going Down with the Ship' for Trump"

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/secret-recording-reveals-gop-lawmaker-freaking-out-about-going-down-ship-trump

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Csnavywx

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 520
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 29
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #534 on: June 10, 2017, 02:20:44 PM »
You and I are probably more aligned on this point than we both realize.

As to the point, the UK result last night was further proof in the pudding, as it were. Whereas the center-left was the first to collapse in Europe, it now appears that the center-right is increasingly getting pinched as well, leaving increasingly large migrations of voting blocs moving to the far-left and far-right. This phenomenon is increasingly prevalent across virtually all OECD countries. These two groups have something in common, however. They're deeply populist and (generally) skeptical of globalization, favoring localization and nation-state sovereignty over the "futuristic" vision of a global community.

It's hard to see how global emission schemes and scenarios ultimately survive contact with that kind of geopolitical environment. Trump could be just the start, really.

To me, the bottom line is protecting the future of our young people; who increasingly understand that the worldwide alt-right movement (for which Trump and Putin are poster children) represents older people clinging desperately to an unsustainable way of life.  Thus, the first linked Alternet article discusses how increasingly the youth vote is striking back against the alt-right; while the second linked article discusses how many GOP lawmakers are freaking out about the risks of going down with Trump's alt-right ship (which increases the prospect of pressure for Trump to resign).

"Brit Election Adds to Striking Global Trend in the U.S., France and Holland For Young People to Vote More Progressive, Often Embracing Socialism"

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/many-western-countries-young-people-are-moving-left

Extract: "Labour Party candidates won 63 percent of young voters in the UK election."

See also:
"Secret Recording Reveals GOP Lawmaker Freaking out About 'Going Down with the Ship' for Trump"

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/secret-recording-reveals-gop-lawmaker-freaking-out-about-going-down-ship-trump

It also depends on the country. In some European countries, the youth are heading towards the far right. France, Sweden, Austria and Greece to name a few. In general, countries where either youth unemployment is much higher now than the structural historical average or the refugee crisis has hit home.

Add some climate refugees, increasing terrorism and gradually increasing negative economic pressure from climate change and that's a hostile mix.

There is some hope from the trends you mention above, but that voting bloc has to be presented with candidates that they can rally behind.

pileus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #535 on: June 10, 2017, 05:14:21 PM »
As Special Counsel Mueller builds his team noted above, here we see Trump continuing to take interesting steps with respect to defending himself in the Russia investigation.

Trump’s lawyer in Russia probe has clients with Kremlin ties

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/investigations/trumps-lawyer-in-russia-probe-has-clients-with-kremlin-ties/2017/06/09/5dba9518-4d4a-11e7-a186-60c031eab644_story.html

The hard-charging New York lawyer President Trump chose to represent him in the Russia investigation has prominent clients with ties to the Kremlin, a striking pick for a president trying to escape the persistent cloud that has trailed his administration.

Marc E. Kasowitz’s clients include Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch who is close to President Vladimir Putin and has done business with Trump’s former campaign manager. Kasowitz also represents Sberbank, Russia’s largest state-owned bank, U.S. court records show.
----
As Kasowitz takes on his most high-stakes work for Trump yet, the lawyer’s Russian clients could cause complications.

“If the behavior of a Russian client of the firm or its relationship with Trump becomes an issue in the investigation, a conflict could arise,” said Stephen Gillers of New York University Law School, an expert on legal ethics.

Deripaska has said congressional investigators have contacted his attorneys seeking information about his business dealings with Paul Manafort, a Trump campaign manager during the presidential campaign. More than a decade ago, Deripaska invested in a fund that Manafort set up in the Cayman Islands that bought assets primarily in Ukraine.

pileus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #536 on: June 10, 2017, 06:12:56 PM »
Eric Posner from University of Chicago Law presents a two part opinion on the question of obstruction of justice.  A good read for the possible scenarios, nuances, and arguments pro and con.

http://ericposner.com/can-the-president-commit-the-crime-of-obstruction-of-justice/

http://ericposner.com/can-the-president-commit-the-crime-of-obstruction-ii/

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #537 on: June 10, 2017, 06:39:06 PM »
The Senate Judiciary Committee may soon start issuing subpoenas related to Trump's obstruction of justice charges:

“Feinstein calls for investigation of 'all matters related to obstruction of justice'”

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/10/politics/dianne-feinstein-chuck-grassley-judiciary-committee-investigation/index.html

Extract: “"It is my strong recommendation that the Judiciary Committee investigate all issues that raise a question of obstruction of justice," the California Democrat wrote in a letter to Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley on Friday. "These issues should be developed by our legal staff, presented to us, and be subject to full committee hearings."

"It is my strong recommendation that the Judiciary Committee investigate all issues that raise a question of obstruction of justice," the California Democrat wrote in a letter to Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley on Friday. "These issues should be developed by our legal staff, presented to us, and be subject to full committee hearings."

"As I have mentioned to you directly, I am supportive of issuing subpoenas in those cases where we do not receive cooperation," she wrote. “
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #538 on: June 10, 2017, 10:11:12 PM »
Here is links to the Palmer Report parade of hits on Team Trump:

“Ted Lieu goes off on Donald Trump’s attorney and suggests he could end up in prison”

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/ted-lieu-trump-attorney/3398/

Extract: “Finally, Lieu asserted that both Trump and his attorney could face legal consequences for their actions toward James Comey: “Since NO LEGAL BASIS for this complaint, it would constitute more Obstruction of Justice. Fun fact: WH Counsel for Nixon went to prison.”“

The Senate Judiciary Committee may soon start issuing subpoenas related to Trump's obstruction of justice charges:

&

“Republican Senator Chuck Grassley has had enough of Donald Trump’s crap”

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/grassley-trump-crap/3400/

Extract: “For months, Republican Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley has shown gradually increasing interest in exposing Donald Trump’s scandals, or at least increasing resentment at how Trump’s White House has been refusing to cooperate with his committee’s investigations. But over the weekend, seemingly in response to James Comey’s testimony, Grassley has had enough of Trump’s crap and he’s coming out swinging in three different ways. ”
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #539 on: June 10, 2017, 10:43:45 PM »
It also depends on the country. In some European countries, the youth are heading towards the far right. France, Sweden, Austria and Greece to name a few. In general, countries where either youth unemployment is much higher now than the structural historical average or the refugee crisis has hit home.

Add some climate refugees, increasing terrorism and gradually increasing negative economic pressure from climate change and that's a hostile mix.

There is some hope from the trends you mention above, but that voting bloc has to be presented with candidates that they can rally behind.

While this thread does not have a particularly philosophical bent, nevertheless, I provide the first linked Alternet article entitled: "The Deep Roots of Left vs. Right", to point out that the best way to improve our current politically polarized situation is to progressively move back towards a point of yin-yang balance of the constraints of freedom vs security:

http://www.alternet.org/culture/deep-roots-left-vs-right

Extract: "“I’m left wing,” or “I’m right wing,” morphs too, reflecting changing coalitions and interests. Today, left and right have come to mean factions that would like the other faction out of the way. They’re not a yin and yang that need each other. They’re warring kingdoms competing for exclusive dominion over the same space, and then competing over which kingdom is to blame for starting the warring.

Remembering that what we’re all really negotiating—the right balance of constraint and freedom, security and liberty—may make us more receptive to negotiation, and smarter negotiators too, not taken in by hyperbolic half-truths about the one true way."

Also, the linked article indicates that the 4th Industrial Revolution will open new doors for young people to establish new norms of human interaction.

"Riding the Next Wave of Human Evolution"

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/conversational-intelligence/201706/riding-the-next-wave-human-evolution

Extract: "With their deep comfort with uncertainty and technology, coupled with their hardwired sense of inclusion, Millennials are blazing the trail by transforming workplaces. When used well, technological connections facilitate extended conversations and build trusting relationships transcending time and space, with all the potential this unleashes. The future leaders of this relationship network, where the world is connected in ways that shift our minds and brains, are the Millennials. Consider this: How might the Millennial generation be riding the next wave of human evolution?"

I am not trying to present Pollyannaish visions of guaranteed utopia; only a path forward that may result in a softer socio-economic collapse circa 2050-2060; & in my opinion that middle path includes putting up resistance to Trump's (& Putin's) alt-right extremism.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #540 on: June 11, 2017, 03:33:07 PM »
Donald Trump Jr. seems to confirm Comey's testimony:

"Donald Trump Jr. confirms Comey's account of Flynn investigation"

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/donald_trump_jr_confirms_comey.html

Extract: "… Donald Trump Jr. - the president's eldest son - seemed to confirm Comey's version of events in a Saturday interview on Fox News as he tried to emphasize the fact that his father did not directly order Comey to stop investigating Flynn.
"When he tells you to do something, guess what? There's no ambiguity in it, there's no, 'Hey, I'm hoping,'" Trump said. "You and I are friends: 'Hey, I hope this happens, but you've got to do your job.' That's what he told Comey. And for this guy as a politician to then go back and write a memo: 'Oh, I felt threatened.' He felt so threatened - but he didn't do anything."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

  • Multi-year ice
  • Posts: 17667
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 862
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #541 on: June 12, 2017, 03:09:19 AM »
This is a very strongly worded tweet from Patrick Leahy to Jeff Sessions:

"Senator Patrick Leahy throws down the Trump-Russia gauntlet at Jeff Sessions"

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/senator-patrick-leahy-jeff-sessions/3419/

Extract: "Leahy tweeted the following regarding Jeff Sessions: “Atty Gen. Sessions provided false testimony in response to questions from me and @SenFranken about his contacts with Russian officials. Now, twice in 2 mos., AG Sessions cancels an Approps hg in which I could Q him about his false testimony and half-hearted Russia recusal. My mssg to AttyGen Sessions: Approps & Judiciary have oversight of DOJ. You need to testify before both in public. You can’t run forever.”"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #542 on: June 12, 2017, 12:46:38 PM »
Three things we now know about Comey's conversation between Comey and Trump...and the discussion of "hope you can see your way through to dropping the in estimation of Flynn."

1.  Comey DID say that
2.  Either there are is no tape of THAT conversation, or it will never see the light of day
3.  Donnie will NEVER testify under oath about that conversation in public.  He will blame his attorney's  for not "allowing" him to testify.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #543 on: June 12, 2017, 03:06:12 PM »
While the "obstruction of justice angle" may be entertaining...it is NOT where the meat of the investigation is centered.  Deutsche Bank has refused to give up information on Trump so far, to members of the committees looking into RussiaGate.  Not sure whether the FBI has subpoenaed those records as well....and not sure what their recourse is.

Banking is where some of the important FBI work will be done over the coming months....and wading through all the companies and pass through entities.  And this is where the smoking guns will be found.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #544 on: June 12, 2017, 07:14:33 PM »
....and the polls are heading to new lows for Donnie in the coming days.  Gallup now at 36% and 59% which is 1% away from Donnie's record high "spread" set back in March.  March was also when he had his lowest approval rating of 35%....which he is only 1% away from where we are now.  I expect him to touch the low 30's sometime this year....and may bounce around in the low to mid 30's before heading into the mid to high 20's next year (otherwise known as impeachment year).😉
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5418
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 525
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #545 on: June 12, 2017, 09:48:22 PM »
Jeff Sessions will testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday 2:30 EST. The public hearing, under oath, could be interesting as Sessions has previously recused himself from all things Russian.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-12/sessions-testify-publicly-senate-intel-committee-tomorrow


I can't help but wonder whether he has any tapes in his possession, or any phone records, or any stray E-Mails. While "17 Spy Agencies" agree that the Russian's did nefarious things during the campaign, AFAIK they've never offered up any of the e-mails that they must have recorded that would prove their allegations.


Is Sessions as head of the Justice Department ultimately responsible for the FBI, the NSA, or any of the other spooky organizations? Would/Should he have access to whatever they have uncovered, or would his recusal have limited his access at some point in time?


Since Sessions was not in power during the election wouldn't asking questions of his predecessor be more productive?


Is the subcommittee investigating Trump's interactions with Russia prior to the conclusion of the election, when Sessions was not AG, or is this a far broader fishing expedition more akin to Starr's investigation of a Clinton's cattle deal that ended up investigating a pig giving Bill a blow job?

If the former I can't imagine what the former Senator could contribute, but if the later there's no way to predict where, or how, this will end.


Terry


Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #546 on: June 12, 2017, 11:27:21 PM »
The chatter about firing Mueller was started today by Mr. Unethical himself....Newt Gingrich.  I expect others to climb on that train as well...in order to give Donnie "cover" to fire Mueller.

Also.... the "mocking phase" was officially started today by Schumer.  Next few months are going to get MORE contentious...not less.

This is going to get nasty.....and it is going to be a dangerous situation until it is over...and hopefully with Donnie, Mikey, Beavus, Butthead, Nunes, Chaffets, and others out of office or in jail.

Buckle up....
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

budmantis

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1219
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 32
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #547 on: June 13, 2017, 01:24:34 AM »
The chatter about firing Mueller was started today by Mr. Unethical himself....Newt Gingrich.  I expect others to climb on that train as well...in order to give Donnie "cover" to fire Mueller.

Also.... the "mocking phase" was officially started today by Schumer.  Next few months are going to get MORE contentious...not less.

This is going to get nasty.....and it is going to be a dangerous situation until it is over...and hopefully with Donnie, Mikey, Beavus, Butthead, Nunes, Chaffets, and others out of office or in jail.

Buckle up....

In my opinion, Trump would further damage his situation if he fired Mueller. By the way Buddy, who exactly is Beavis and Butthead? There are so many in his cabinet that deserve those names.

BudM

Buddy

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3325
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 40
  • Likes Given: 31
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #548 on: June 13, 2017, 01:33:37 AM »
Beavis and Butthead are his two oldest sons...
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

pileus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Russiagate
« Reply #549 on: June 13, 2017, 02:07:15 AM »
Reporting and speculation is increasing this evening that Trump may attempt to fire Special Counsel Mueller.  This would need to be done by the current Deputy AG, since AG Sessions is recused (allegedly). If Rosenstein refuses, Trump could fire him and ultimately order the DOJ to eliminate the Special Counsel provision.  Congress could then either establish an independent commission or begin impeachment proceedings, but that is unlikely with the current group of majority Republicans.  If Trump takes these actions and Congress allows it, this is truly the final step over the rubicon for what's left of American democracy.

A person that has nothing to hide or is free of guilt does not act like Trump has been acting.

Regarding AG Sessions, word out of the Senate Intel committee is that there are intercepted communications between him and the Russian ambassador from the third meeting.