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Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1500 on: October 29, 2017, 06:19:52 PM »
I don't like this guy. OK ? I don't like him singing and getting a standing ovation.
It's annoying to say the least.

And I don't understand why Martin posted it. Putin singing seems to have little relation to the Mueller investigation.
Same sentiment here. But methinks it's part of the Russiagate lesson. Look at all the slimy acolytes in the audience. Yuck.

E.g. Gérard Depardieu, whom Putin granted Russian citizenship by executive order.


Sometimes, e.g. right now, I like to look at the Trumputin complex as a huge Italo mafia cinema epos or opera, including singing. Some singing acts are always annoying or boring :)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 06:36:04 PM by Martin Gisser »

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1501 on: October 29, 2017, 06:31:22 PM »
BTW, I also regard the singing Putin as a classical piece of propaganda. (He can't be that bad if he likes to sing? -- Something I once heard about singing Hitler Jugend: "Wo man singt, da lass dich nieder. Böse Menschen kennen keine Lieder".  "Where people sing you can dwell. Evil people don't know songs")

I was seriously thinking about starting a thread "Russian InfoWar". But I won't. My prime exhibit (collected in the Ukraine threads) would be just too disgusting.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1502 on: October 29, 2017, 08:59:36 PM »
WTF?

Title: "Trump Tweets Feelings About Russia Investigation"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-tweets-feelings-about-russia-investigation/ar-AAuclLm?ocid=spartandhp

Extract: ""There is so much GUILT by Democrats/Clinton," Trump alleged, "and now the facts are pouring out. DO SOMETHING!"

The president then seemed to allege that the timing surrounding the discussions over the Russia investigation, which began prior to Robert Mueller's appointment as special counsel in May, were some kind of conspiracy to disrupt the GOP's push for tax reform.

"Is this coincidental? NOT!" Trump concluded.

Meanwhile, Trump's White House lawyer Ty Cobb said that the president's Sunday morning tweets had nothing to do with the Russia investigation."
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1503 on: October 29, 2017, 09:17:55 PM »
Louise Mensch has a nice collection of "Mueller Meltdown: Trump, Other Suspects Squeal Online Over Charges":
https://patribotics.blog/2017/10/29/mueller-meltdown-trump-other-suspects-squeal-online-over-charges/

---------------
BTW, apropos Russian InfoWars. Louise calls zerohedge.com (often quoted here by the usual suspects) a "Russian outlet"...
More on that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge
Alas the Bloomberg article https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-29/unmasking-the-men-behind-zero-hedge-wall-street-s-renegade-blog is paywalled.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1504 on: October 29, 2017, 10:00:51 PM »
Louise Mensch has a nice collection of "Mueller Meltdown: Trump, Other Suspects Squeal Online Over Charges":
https://patribotics.blog/2017/10/29/mueller-meltdown-trump-other-suspects-squeal-online-over-charges/

---------------
BTW, apropos Russian InfoWars. Louise calls zerohedge.com (often quoted here by the usual suspects) a "Russian outlet"...
More on that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge
Alas the Bloomberg article https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-29/unmasking-the-men-behind-zero-hedge-wall-street-s-renegade-blog is paywalled.

Although the Bloomberg article is paywalled, it seems the article can be found at the Sydney Morning herald:
Unmasking the men behind Zero Hedge, Wall Street's renegade blog
http://www.smh.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/unmasking-the-men-behind-zero-hedge-wall-streets-renegade-blog-20160429-goit31.html

Excerpt:
""I tried to inject as much truth as I could into my posts, but there's no room for it. "Russia=good. Obama=idiot. Bashar al-Assad=benevolent leader. John Kerry= dunce. Vladimir Putin=greatest leader in the history of statecraft," Lokey wrote, describing his take on the website's politics."

Which fits with my impression of zerohedge.

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1505 on: October 29, 2017, 10:52:14 PM »
Directly from that "Russian Outlet".


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-29/details-suspicious-manafort-wire-transfers-leaked-fbi-probe


A rather detailed look at why Manafort may be the first to be brought to justice.


BTW, the former employee's comments about ZeroHedge are old news, to those of us who read ZeroHedge.  8)


Terry

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1506 on: October 30, 2017, 01:06:09 AM »
Watching Putin trying to sing that song with his Russian accent was hilarious in my opinion. What turned my stomach was watching Kevin Costner, Goldie Hawn and other Hollywood elites applaud Putin.

In defense of the audience, this video was taped in 2010, before Putin invaded Ukraine, and shot down MH17, and before he launched an information war against the West and its democratic institutions.

Different times, when we could still laugh at Putin singing without feeling nauseous.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1507 on: October 30, 2017, 01:48:59 AM »
Found this one on BuzzFeed.
Good to get some perspective.
Not sure if this is the right thread for it, but with Mueller's indictments coming up, might as well :

---

Obama (D) – 8 yrs in office. Zero criminal indictments, zero convictions and zero prison sentences. So the next time somebody describes the Obama administration as “scandal free” they aren’t speaking wishfully, they’re simply telling the truth.

Bush, George W. (R) – 8 yrs in office. 16 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 9 prison sentences.

Clinton (D) – 8 yrs in office. 2 criminal indictments. One conviction. One prison sentence. That’s right nearly 8 yrs of investigations. Tens of millions spent and 30 yrs of claiming them the most corrupt ever and there was exactly one person convicted of a crime.

Bush, George H. W. (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. One conviction. One prison sentence.

Reagan (R) – 8 yrs in office. 26 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 8 prison sentences.

Carter (D) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment. Zero convictions and zero prison sentences.

Ford (R) – 4 yrs in office. One indictment and one conviction. One prison sentence.

Nixon (R) – 6 yrs in office. 76 criminal indictments. 55 convictions. 15 prison sentences.

Johnson (D) – 5 yrs in office. Zero indictments. Zero convictions. Zero prison sentences.

So, let’s see where that leaves us. In the last 53 years, Democrats have been in the Oval Office for 25 of those years, while Republicans held it for 28. In their 25 yrs in office Democrats had a total of three executive branch officials indicted with one conviction and one prison sentence. That’s one whole executive branch official convicted of a crime in two and a half decades of Democrat leadership.

In the 28 yrs that Republicans have held office over the last 53 yrs they have had a total of (a drum roll would be more than appropriate), 120 criminal indictments of executive branch officials. 89 criminal convictions and 34 prison sentences handed down.

That’s more prison sentences than years in office since 1968 for Republicans.

If you want to count articles of impeachment as indictments (they aren’t really but we can count them as an action), both sides get one more. However, Clinton wasn’t found guilty while Nixon resigned and was pardoned by Ford (and a pardon carries with it a legal admission of guilt on the part of the pardoned). So those only serve to make Republicans look even worse.

With everything going on with Trump and his people right now, it’s a safe bet Republicans are gonna be padding their numbers a bit real soon.

So let’s just go over the numbers one more time, shall we? 120 indictments for Republicans. 89 convictions, and 34 prison sentences.

Those aren’t “feelings” or “alternate facts.” Those are simply the stats by the numbers. Republicans are, and have been for my entire lifetime, the most criminally corrupt party to hold the office of the presidency.
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crandles

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1508 on: October 30, 2017, 02:02:34 AM »
Is it just me or does that "DO SOMETHING" seem overtly blatant dog whistle to supporters to create distractions?

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1509 on: October 30, 2017, 02:27:03 AM »
Is it just me or does that "DO SOMETHING" seem overtly blatant dog whistle to supporters to create distractions?

It is not just you :o
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1510 on: October 30, 2017, 03:31:22 AM »
A rather detailed look at why Manafort may be the first to be brought to justice.

Interesting twist in that article :

Quote
Buzzfeed later implies that Manafort helped Viktor Yanukovich – who is suspected to be the ultimate source of the payments, which were presumably made in exchange for Manafort’s consulting work – loot Ukraine’s public Treasury.

BuzzFeed News has learned specific details about 13 of the wire transfers, all of which took place between 2012 and 2013. At least four of the transfers originated with Manafort’s company Global Endeavour, a political consulting firm based in St. Vincent and the Grenadines. Global Endeavour was hired by Yanukovych to consult and lobby on his behalf. Ousted after the 2014 Euromaidan Revolution, Yanukovych lives in exile in Russia and is accused of treason by Ukrainian authorities; the country’s general prosecutor said Yanukovych’s embezzlement of state funds was so egregious it resembled a “mafia structure.”

The zerohedge article you referenced originates from this Buzzfeed article:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasonleopold/fbi-probe-of-paul-manafort-focuses-on-13-suspicious-wire

Interesting how things come back to Ukraine and Yanukovych. Which we just discussed in the Ukraine threads.

I hope Mueller has more than this 2012 - 2013 Manafort - Yanukovych - money laundering issue. As bad as that is, if that's all he has, the right-wing press will roast him (for having little connection to Trump or collusion with Russia during the 2016 elections)..
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 03:42:10 AM by Rob Dekker »
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sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1511 on: October 30, 2017, 03:47:11 AM »
The leaked wire transfers were in the 2012-2013 period, right at the time manafort had hired podesta group to lobby for ukrainian political party of regions. So thats why Mueller was investigating in that direction.

https://apnews.com/6eed1ef61eb744e1aac584f8ac1f7247/trump-advisers-waged-covert-influence-campaign

So they will probably get him on FARA violation among other things.

sidd




Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1512 on: October 30, 2017, 05:10:36 AM »
Is it just me or does that "DO SOMETHING" seem overtly blatant dog whistle to supporters to create distractions?

Spot on.
The right wing press already revived two zombie conspiracy theories from the dead (the Uranium One deal, and the Steele dossier funding issue) in the past week alone.
Wonder what they will come up with this week, when Mueller serves indictments.

It's going to be an interesting week.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1513 on: October 30, 2017, 05:40:18 AM »
Never mind. They are coming up with the obvious : "Mueller should resign" :
http://nypost.com/2017/10/28/robert-mueller-should-resign/

Quote
First, special counsel Robert Mueller will never be able to untangle the tangled webs with any credibility and needs to step aside.

They don't seem to consider that maybe Mueller WILL be able to "untangle the tangled webs".
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 06:27:24 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1514 on: October 30, 2017, 01:24:44 PM »
KNOCK KNOCK......😳😳😳😳😳
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crandles

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1515 on: October 30, 2017, 02:50:15 PM »

I hope Mueller has more than this 2012 - 2013 Manafort - Yanukovych - money laundering issue. As bad as that is, if that's all he has, the right-wing press will roast him (for having little connection to Trump or collusion with Russia during the 2016 elections)..


Quote
The indictment contains 12 counts: conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, unregistered agent of a foreign principal, false and misleading FARA statements, false statements, and seven counts of failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts

Is "conspiracy against the United States" indicative of more than just 2012-13 money laundering issue?

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1516 on: October 30, 2017, 02:58:51 PM »
The charges against Gates and Manafort makes a lot of sense.  It was brought now...only because the "statute of limitations" was running out.

As I said this weekend....this is REALLY early in the process.  Indictments in Watergate weren't brought for another 5 months....and Watergate was not NEARLY as complicated.

So....keep that pallet of beer on order for the coming year.  There are a TON of indictments that will be made over the coming 12+ months.

In the mean time....Donnie will be Donnie....and his poor decision making and poor execution...will continue to SLOWLY drive his poll numbers SOUTH.

More indictments may not be coming for months.  I have no idea as to the timing.  But they WILL be coming.  Elections are November 2018.  If more indictments start dribbling out this coming spring or summer.....not good for the 🐘🐘🐘.  🙈
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1517 on: October 30, 2017, 04:29:12 PM »
The indictment against Manafort and Gates is here: https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download

crandles

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1518 on: October 30, 2017, 05:56:32 PM »
and re Papadopoulos here:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163404/Papadopoulos-Complaint-2017-07.pdf

Quote
Trump aide 'lied about Russia contact'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-41805324

Quote
Preet Bharara, who served as the top prosecutor in New York until Trump fired him, says it is "significant" that Papadopoulos pleaded guilty.

Across Washington today, people are speculating whether the former foreign policy aide has any incriminating evidence against Trump campaign officials that he has handed over to the FBI.

Quote
Special Counsel Mueller appears to have a cooperating witness, George Papadopoulos. That is significant. Time will tell how significant.


Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1519 on: October 30, 2017, 06:31:58 PM »
and re Papadopoulos here:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4163404/Papadopoulos-Complaint-2017-07.pdf

Quote
Trump aide 'lied about Russia contact'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-41805324

Quote
Preet Bharara, who served as the top prosecutor in New York until Trump fired him, says it is "significant" that Papadopoulos pleaded guilty.

Across Washington today, people are speculating whether the former foreign policy aide has any incriminating evidence against Trump campaign officials that he has handed over to the FBI.

Quote
Special Counsel Mueller appears to have a cooperating witness, George Papadopoulos. That is significant. Time will tell how significant.

So now we have not just an allegation or evidence that the Trump campaign worked with Russia to subvert the U.S. democratic process, but an actual honest-to-god confession by a Trump campaign insider. Glad that's been settled; now we can start the real honest talk without all the asides about this being a wasteful witch hunt..

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1520 on: October 30, 2017, 06:53:29 PM »
The indictment against Manafort and Gates is here: https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download

If Trump pardons Manafort and/or Gates then they cannot plead their 5th Amendment rights if called as witnesses against other involved with the charged violations.
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1521 on: October 30, 2017, 07:38:18 PM »
I sure hope Manafort didn't launder any of his money in New York where Eric Schneiderman will put his nuts in a vice.  😱😱😱
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1522 on: October 30, 2017, 07:58:41 PM »
So now we have not just an allegation or evidence that the Trump campaign worked with Russia to subvert the U.S. democratic process, but an actual honest-to-god confession by a Trump campaign insider. Glad that's been settled; now we can start the real honest talk without all the asides about this being a wasteful witch hunt..

Here is an extract of some of the ties to Trump w.r.t. the Russians having "dirt on" Hillary:


Title: "Trump campaign adviser pleads guilty to misleading investigators about Russia contacts; Manafort indicted on conspiracy"

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-campaign-adviser-pleads-guilty-misleading-investigators-russia/story?id=50807954

Extract: "As outlined in the statement of Papadopoulos' offense, the foreign policy adviser met with an individual who put him in contact with a woman whom he believed to a relative of Russian President Vladimir Putin. He later told Trump that he might be able to arrange a meeting between the candidate and the president. One of Papadopoulos' contacts told him in April 2016 that the Russians "have dirt on" Hillary Clinton, after which he told campaign associates he had "interesting messages coming in from Moscow.""
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1523 on: October 30, 2017, 08:03:35 PM »
So now we have not just an allegation or evidence that the Trump campaign worked with Russia to subvert the U.S. democratic process, but an actual honest-to-god confession by a Trump campaign insider. Glad that's been settled; now we can start the real honest talk without all the asides about this being a wasteful witch hunt..


In the interest of full disclosure:
I ate dinner last night with a Russian National - who claims to be an opponent of Putin's, but who knows what evil lurks in the Slavic Mind. He definitely spoke with a Russian accent and admitted to being from Putin's own city of Moscow.
Also present was a Serbian/Canadian lass who has admitted in past conversations to have danced on bridges that Bill Clinton was threatening to bomb while wearing a tee shirt depicting a multi colored target.
These two conversed in what could have been Russian as the Serbian girl attempted to explain the intricacies of Blokus to the Russian gent.
Both of these suspicious individuals have degrees from foreign institutes of learning, and though neither was "a professor", both proved that they were in fact dues paying members of International Mensa!


With that apparently necessary disclosure out of the way I'll proceed to comment on the "wasteful witch hunt" noted above:


I'm too young to have been politically cognizant during the witch hunts of the early 50's, but this does seem reminiscent of the portrayals of such that I am familiar with.


"Have you met with Russian Nationals?"
"Have you met with anyone with a Russian accent?"


If these questions were transposed to


"Have you met with African Natives?"
"Have you met with anyone who sounded black"?"


or possibly to


"Have you met with Israeli Nationals"?
"Have you met anyone with a "Jewish" accent"?


would you still feel as comfortable with the line of questioning?


Free the Hollywood Ten!!!
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1524 on: October 30, 2017, 08:05:06 PM »
Here's an amazing (and very long) Twitter thread by Seth Abramson, laying out the case so far today:

(THREAD) Paul Manafort and Rick Gates are now indicted. This thread analyzes legal and political aspects of their indictment and surrender.
https://twitter.com/sethabramson/status/924988111880417280


Excerpts:
47/ Meanwhile, this indictment inadvertently revealing Flynn *has* already flipped is *very* likely—as we know Flynn has *offered* to flip.

48/ So anyone, whether Trump or pundit, who says this indictment proves Mueller has nothing on Trump can be disregarded almost immediately

51/ Between now and March 31, 2018 we can expect more indictments. Almost certainly Carter Page, Jared Kushner, and Mike Flynn—at a minimum.

[After reading the Papadopoulos documents:]
@Anthony 69/ This means Trump ordered a GOP platform change to benefit Russia *pre-hacking* and *after* being told the Kremlin wanted a relationship.

@Anthony 70/ That is to say, it now seems release of the DNC emails was a quid pro quo from Trump ordering Gordon to change the GOP platform 3/31/16.

@Anthony 72/ If Trump ordered the GOP platform change after Papadopoulos laid out the Kremlin's interest in him—and he did—collusion has been proven.

77/ More soon, but I will say—beyond doubt—today is the beginning of the end of the Trump Administration. The Papadopoulos news is that big.

102/ I want to make a perhaps obvious point: were Trump not a narcissist, we might expect him to resign the presidency this week. He's done.

121/ Here's what's certain from the Papadopoulos plea: many more indictments are coming—and expect to start seeing White House resignations

Edit: another link, scroll up from this last tweet:
127/ To understand why Trump will be impeached/resign, see a) The "TIHDC" meeting (see earlier in this thread), and b) The Mayflower Speech.
https://twitter.com/sethabramson/status/925042636330762242

« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 08:12:17 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1525 on: October 30, 2017, 08:12:04 PM »
I wonder how the following people are sleeping:

1). Wibur Ross (Cyprus banking)
2). Jason Chaffetz (obstruction of justice with FBI)
3). Devin Nunes (collusion, obstruction of justice)
4). Spicey (obstruction of justice)
5). Reince Preibus (obstruction, collusion, possible voter fraud)
6). Rudy Guiliani (obstruction, collusion, money laundering)
7). Moron Jr. (EVERYTHING)
8). Female Moron Jr. (Happy birthday by the way... too bad you are getting EVERYTHING too:)
9). Kushner (EVERYTHING... + you're an idiot)
10). Sarah Huckabee (extra points for being a lying fake Christian)
11.  Speaking of fake Christians....how could I forget Mikey?
etc....
etc.....

Soak it up.  We have not witnessed anything of this magnitude in US history).

Well done boys and girls....well done.  Russia is next.  What will short little Vladi do when he is exposed?
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Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1526 on: October 30, 2017, 08:23:00 PM »
In the interest of full disclosure:
I ate dinner last night with a Russian National - who claims to be an opponent of Putin's, but who knows what evil lurks in the Slavic Mind. He definitely spoke with a Russian accent and admitted to being from Putin's own city of Moscow.
Also present was a Serbian/Canadian lass who has admitted in past conversations to have danced on bridges that Bill Clinton was threatening to bomb while wearing a tee shirt depicting a multi colored target.
These two conversed in what could have been Russian as the Serbian girl attempted to explain the intricacies of Blokus to the Russian gent.
Both of these suspicious individuals have degrees from foreign institutes of learning, and though neither was "a professor", both proved that they were in fact dues paying members of International Mensa!


With that apparently necessary disclosure out of the way I'll proceed to comment on the "wasteful witch hunt" noted above:


I'm too young to have been politically cognizant during the witch hunts of the early 50's, but this does seem reminiscent of the portrayals of such that I am familiar with.


"Have you met with Russian Nationals?"
"Have you met with anyone with a Russian accent?"


If these questions were transposed to


"Have you met with African Natives?"
"Have you met with anyone who sounded black"?"


or possibly to


"Have you met with Israeli Nationals"?
"Have you met anyone with a "Jewish" accent"?


would you still feel as comfortable with the line of questioning?


Free the Hollywood Ten!!!
Terry

That's cute and all, but of course it's not anywhere close to being the same thing. Papadopoulos isn't in trouble for "meeting" with some Russians; he's in trouble for lying to the FBI about the nature of some quid pro quo conversations he had with Moscow while he worked as an adviser to the Trump campaign.

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1527 on: October 30, 2017, 08:51:29 PM »

That's cute and all, but of course it's not anywhere close to being the same thing. Papadopoulos isn't in trouble for "meeting" with some Russians; he's in trouble for lying to the FBI about the nature of some quid pro quo conversations he had with Moscow while he worked as an adviser to the Trump campaign.


Why not?
These were questions posed by the FBI. I'm not convinced that anyone should be asking such questions. But that's just me, as a Canadian.
Terry

sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1528 on: October 30, 2017, 10:12:00 PM »
I think the Papadopoulos guilty plea is the more important one since it traces a direct line to Russia from the Trump campaign, while the Manafort/Gates indictments refer to activities during the 2009-2016 period  hiding Ukrainian payments. Popehat has a rundown on the plea and the Manafort/Gates indictments. He points out that Papadopoulos might have been an "active" cooperator, " ...   by making recorded calls to targets of the investigation, engaging in monitored email exchanges with targets, or even wearing a wire during meetings with targets."

https://www.popehat.com/2017/10/30/lawsplainer-the-george-papadopoulos-guilty-plea/

https://www.popehat.com/2017/10/30/lawsplainer-the-manafortgates-indictment/

sidd

crandles

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1529 on: October 30, 2017, 10:37:03 PM »

Why not?
These were questions posed by the FBI. I'm not convinced that anyone should be asking such questions. But that's just me, as a Canadian.
Terry

Maybe Joe Bloggs (without any evidence) shouldn't be asking such (politically incorrect?) questions but "the FBI as part of its counter-intelligence mission, had an open investigation into the Russian government's efforts to interfere with 2016 election"

You think the FBI should stop investigating when there is an open investigation because ...... it wouldn't be politically correct or something  ?????????????????????????

Huh?

Anyone wondering if Terry's password for access to this site has been hacked?

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1530 on: October 30, 2017, 11:43:09 PM »
The two linked Palmer Report opinion pieces offer food for thought about what may be coming soon in the Russiagate investigation:

Title: "Here's why Robert Mueller may be keeping sealed "Indictment (A)" against Donald Trump in his back pocket":

http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/pocket-indictment/5798/

The biggest news out of the criminal indictment against Trump advisers Paul Manafort and Rick Gates is that they’re both named in what’s been labeled as “Indictment (B)” – yet there’s not yet any “Indictment (A)” to speak of. That means Indictment (A) is still sealed, and by definition, it has to be higher profile than Manafort. There’s very good reason to believe that the sealed indictment is against Donald Trump. There’s also very good reason why Mueller would be keeping it in his back pocket.

&

Title: "It looks like (at least) five more arrests are coming soon in Donald Trump's Russia scandal"

http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/five-arrests-trump-russia/5800/

Extract: "Although the Papadopoulos and the Manafort-Gates case are two different cases, they’re both playing out in U.S. District Court in Washington DC. That same court has four sealed cases with case numbers between that of Papadopoulos and Manafort-Gates, as flagged by reporter Steve Reilly in a tweet (link). That doesn’t prove that the four cases are all Trump-Russia cases, but it means that they most likely are. We’ve observed today that Special Counsel Robert Mueller has been lining his ducks up in advance so he could come firing out of the gate today. That means there are likely indictments already in place in the other four cases as well."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1531 on: October 31, 2017, 12:08:57 AM »
Anyone wondering if Terry's password for access to this site has been hacked?
Here.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1532 on: October 31, 2017, 02:31:51 AM »

You think the FBI should stop investigating when there is an open investigation because ...... it wouldn't be politically correct or something  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?


Just curious about where it was that I wrote that the FBI should stop investigating?


Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1533 on: October 31, 2017, 02:59:15 AM »
History is so fascinating.....especially when you know you are watching a big event take place in REAL TIME.

And think about the psychology involved:

1). Trump and kids....lying their whole lives, and thinking they can get away with it forever.
2). All the lambs following Trump to slaughter.  Sarah...knowingly lying like a rug.  All the other Trump supporters not batting an eye as they lied.
3). The faux reporters at FOX News.  All of them frauds...all of them lying. 🤥  Can you imagine working at FOX News....knowing that you are expected to lie all day long.

Pretty fascinating stuff.... 🙀

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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1534 on: October 31, 2017, 03:28:50 AM »
Anyone wondering if Terry's password for access to this site has been hacked?

To get an idea of Terry's opinions, you should read the Ukraine threads.
He is a strong supporter of Yanukovych and Putin.
He also has a tendency to make stuff up on the fly as long as it re-enforces his beliefs, without providing any evidence.
So you should always fact-check his statements.

[edit] I see that Terry now also starts to defend Assad in the "Empire - America and the future" thread, with equally unsustained claims. I did a fact-check on one of his claims there and it came up empty, just like his claims in the Ukraine threads.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 08:33:52 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1535 on: October 31, 2017, 04:57:52 AM »
Is "conspiracy against the United States" indicative of more than just 2012-13 money laundering issue?

So it turned out that Manafort's financial issues are a LOT more than just the 2012-2013 money laundering. And a lot more money went through his laundry machine too.

Still, it is interesting that the 12 counts brought against Manafort were not related to anything he did during the Trump election period.
Which brings up the question why Mueller would indict him now, and for these charges.
I think Mueller wanted to test if Manafort would cooperate or not.
Manafort entered a "not guilty" plea today, which suggests he is NOT willing to cooperate.
Which is very interesting by itself, since it suggests that Manafort wants to drag this thing out into trial, to maybe to buy some more time (slow down the investigation).
I'm sure that Mueller has more stuff on him and many other Trump campaign officials, and will tighten the screws in the months to come.

In my opinion, the REAL interesting thing today was that Papadopoulos guilty plea.
For one, it directly links the Trump campaign to the Russians talking about "dirt" on Hillary.
But secondly, it is interesting that the guilty plea was signed already in July, and Mueller decided to let it come out only today. To coincide with the Manafort indictment.

What do you guys make of that timing ?

[edit] I stand corrected about the signing of the guilty plea by Papadopoulos. It was not July, but early October when Papadopoulos signed the guilty plea :

This article :
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/30/politics/robert-mueller-most-powerful-man-in-washington/index.html

states :

Quote
Papadopoulos was arrested on July 27 at Dulles International Airport. Mueller noted that Papadopoulos then met with the government "on numerous occasions." He was arraigned and pleaded guilty in federal court October 5, a fact only unsealed Monday.

Still, that is another indication that Mueller really knows how to keep things secret and release them only when he deems them needed. And that was today. The timing (coincide with the Manafort indictment) is still interesting.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 07:49:56 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1536 on: October 31, 2017, 05:29:16 AM »
Next on the Mueller chopping block may be Carter Page :

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/carter-page-discussed-russia-papadopoulos-article-1.3600418

Quote
Page left the Trump campaign after news reports surfaced that he may have met with a Russian oil mogul close to President Vladimir Putin during that visit. Their discussions included lucrative quid-pro-quo deals relating to sanctions and Russia’s interference in the election, according to the documents.

The thing is : "collusion" is not a criminal offense.
So as long as nobody is lying to the FBI or the special counsel, we won't hear much until the final story is compiled in a final report by Mueller.

Until then, we will just see little bits and pieces of the puzzle that Mueller is unraveling.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1537 on: October 31, 2017, 10:50:28 AM »

You think the FBI should stop investigating when there is an open investigation because ...... it wouldn't be politically correct or something  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?


Just curious about where it was that I wrote that the FBI should stop investigating?

Terry
I'll leave it to others to decide if this:


These were questions posed by the FBI. I'm not convinced that anyone should be asking such questions. But that's just me, as a Canadian.
Terry

can possibly mean anyone but not the FBI or if it means the FBI should investigate but be hamstrung by not being able to ask pertinent questions or something else.

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1538 on: October 31, 2017, 12:25:53 PM »
My money is on one of two things happening:

1). Either the senate and house committees deciding to "re-combine" and decide to do a serious investigation....OR

2). The "patriot 3"......McCain, Flake, & Corker combine with the Democrats in the Senate to boot Mitch McConnel out as leader of the house....and insert Angus Kaine as leader of the house.  That would give them the ability to control the committees, subpoenas....and the activity of the committee.

I think we are likely heading to #2 as the breadth and depth of the FBI investigation continues to unfold....and the feeling that people need to be held PUBLICLY accountable gains steam.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 12:33:10 PM by Buddy »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1539 on: October 31, 2017, 12:42:22 PM »
Many months ago...I said that the treason and the POSSIBILITY of treason charges would be raised.  We are now THERE.  It was raised on one or two programs.  I certainly didn't expect it this early.  Discussing the possibility....and the actual charge....are two completely different things.  But as actual things that people did....and the NUMBER of people involved becomes clearer...the possibility WILL be raised and at least discussed.

These are the waters that we now find ourselves sailing through.

Just glad Hillary isn't president. 😳😳😳😳😳

Tick....tick....tick  Donnie Boy.
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Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1540 on: October 31, 2017, 01:12:15 PM »
This summary from a New York Times column by Michelle Goldberg (The Plot Against America) wraps it up nicely (emphasis mine):

Quote
So here’s where we are. Trump put Manafort, an accused money-launderer and unregistered foreign agent, in charge of his campaign. Under Manafort’s watch, the campaign made at least two attempts to get compromising information about Clinton from Russia. Russia, in turn, provided hacked Democratic emails to WikiLeaks.

Russia also ran a giant disinformation campaign against Clinton on social media and attempted to hack voting systems in at least 21 states. In response to Russia’s election meddling, Barack Obama’s administration imposed sanctions. Upon taking office, Trump reportedly made secret efforts to lift them. He fired the F.B.I. director James Comey to stop his investigation into “this Russia thing,” as he told Lester Holt. The day after the firing, he met with Russia’s foreign minister and its ambassador to America, and told them: “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

We’ve had a year of recriminations over the Clinton campaign’s failings, but Trump clawed out his minority victory only with the aid of a foreign intelligence service. On Monday we finally got indictments, but it’s been obvious for a year that this presidency is a crime.

Entire article

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1541 on: October 31, 2017, 01:35:10 PM »

Just glad Hillary isn't president. 😳😳😳😳😳

Tick....tick....tick  Donnie Boy.

Lock him up!

BudM

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1542 on: October 31, 2017, 03:05:36 PM »
Louise Mensch has a new blog piece. Lots of "innuendo" from her contacts to U.S. and European spooks :)

https://patribotics.blog/2017/10/29/exclusive-mueller-has-dozens-of-sealed-indictments-including-on-donald-trump/
Quote
Exclusive: Multiple sources with links to the justice and intelligence communities report that Special Counsel Mueller has dozens of sealed indictments against suspects in the Trump Russia scandal. There are now several sealed indictments against Donald Trump personally.
[...]
This article will attempt to summarize some of our reporting on evidence the Special Counsel has before him, and on existing sealed indictments. In a separate story, I will summarize which of my reports have been confirmed by the mainstream media.
[...]
Sources did not specify who was to be indicted under which offense. However, multiple sources did confirm that some categories of offense considered included, variously; espionage, a capital crime; obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice; violations of the Logan Act; lying to the FBI; failure to register under FARA; and RICO, not only in the matter of the Trump Organization, but also for the GOP as a body, taking Ambassador Kislyak’s money at the GOP convention, where both Reince Priebus and Paul Ryan were intercepted on Kislyak’s hot-miked phone.

Donald Trump – RICO over Felix Sater, Bayrock, and other unnamed offenses. Mr. Trump is indicted. He is also under investigation for sexual abuse and human trafficking relating to Trump Models.
[...]

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1543 on: October 31, 2017, 03:27:25 PM »
Finally, my impression/hunch of last year's Fakebook experience confimed. I called FB a "stupidity amplifier" before the wörd fake news was coined.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/30/facebook-russia-fake-accounts-126-million
Quote
Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election
[...]
Facebook believes 120 fake Russian-backed pages created 80,000 posts that were received by 29 million Americans directly, but reached a much bigger audience by users sharing, liking and following the posts.
[...]
After appearing before the judiciary committee on Tuesday, representatives for Facebook, Google and Twitter will testify before the Senate and House intelligence committees in back-to-back public hearings on Wednesday.
[...]

---------------
BTW, very ugly stupidity/hate amplification at work regarding the Rohingya crisis in Myanmar:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/29/business/facebook-misinformation-abroad.html

So, this is a global problem. Not just stupid 'merricans played by evil Russians. Yet I'm optimistic that mankind will learn and gain some immunity against this.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 03:33:04 PM by Martin Gisser »

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1544 on: October 31, 2017, 04:51:34 PM »
Finally, my impression/hunch of last year's Fakebook experience confimed. I called FB a "stupidity amplifier" before the wörd fake news was coined.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/30/facebook-russia-fake-accounts-126-million
Quote
Russia-backed Facebook posts 'reached 126m Americans' during US election
[...]
Facebook believes 120 fake Russian-backed pages created 80,000 posts that were received by 29 million Americans directly, but reached a much bigger audience by users sharing, liking and following the posts.
[...]
After appearing before the judiciary committee on Tuesday, representatives for Facebook, Google and Twitter will testify before the Senate and House intelligence committees in back-to-back public hearings on Wednesday.
[...]

---------------
BTW, very ugly stupidity/hate amplification at work regarding the Rohingya crisis in Myanmar:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/29/business/facebook-misinformation-abroad.html

So, this is a global problem. Not just stupid 'merricans played by evil Russians. Yet I'm optimistic that mankind will learn and gain some immunity against this.


I wish I could share your optimism.
I had unrealistically high hopes for the democratization of knowledge that the internet could have evolved into, and there is a huge dissemination of data available, but the proliferation of disinformation foisted on us by those with little interest in truth now threatens to negate much of what the internet once offered.
Like an early evangelist who saw the printing press bringing news of his god to the masses, only to watch pornography and politics come to dominate the broadsheets, I've become deeply skeptical of where we are being lead.
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1545 on: October 31, 2017, 05:17:48 PM »
September 30, 2016: Russian news agency Interfax interviews George Papadopoulos, "One of [...] Donald Trump‘s foreign political advisors since March 2016". Good stuff, actually. But makes it difficult/ridiculous for Trump to distance himself from Papadopoulos.
http://www.interfax.com/interview.asp?id=704556

gerontocrat

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1546 on: October 31, 2017, 05:42:01 PM »
Some may wonder why Russia has such an antipathy to the USofA. I don't. Russians have long memories. The conventional wisdom has it that the West's "victory" over the USSR in the late 1980's was bloodless. It was not:-

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/russia-population/
Russian Population Decline

"The Russian population has been steadily declining for almost two decades now. When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the population of Russia was recorded at 148,538,000.

Over the next decade, the population decreased at a fairly steady rate of a half percent per year. The causes for this were twofold. Firstly the number of people dying increased due to a fall in living standards, and among men who were hit hardest, alcoholism. The average life expectancy for women held fairly steady at 75 years, but Russian male life expectancy dropped dramatically to 63 years.

Combined with this, birth rates fell sharply as well. From around 17 per 1,000 persons in the mid 1980s, the rate fell to below 10 per 1,000 in the mid-1990s – well below the rate needed to sustain a population. Economic uncertainty was a major factor in this, persuading people against having children."

While the West in the late 1990's were blah-blahing about "The Wild East" economic surge (mainly dirty money building glass towers in Moscow and St. Petersburg + oil and gas) a photo-journalist from "The National Geographic" was recording record freight volumes heading East on the Trans-Siberian Railway - being mostly scrap metal from Russia's dismantled factories on its way to China and japan for recycling.

As I have said - Russians have long memories.
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1547 on: October 31, 2017, 06:16:58 PM »
Scribbler unchained on Russiagate:

Title: "Trump Campaign Chairman Paul Manafort, Agent of the Pro-Russia Party of Regions, Charged With Conspiracy Against the United States"

https://robertscribbler.com/2017/10/30/trump-campaign-chairman-paul-manafort-agent-of-the-pro-russia-party-of-regions-charged-with-conspiracy-against-the-united-states/

Extract: "In digressing somewhat from the usual climate change related coverage I perform here to explore a matter of extraordinary importance to us all — I’m going to provide you with a closer look at the attempted corruption of U.S. Democracy by a foreign petro-state (Russia) and its agents. This expose is related, tangentially, to climate change in that it hints at the degree to which petro-state and related corporate actors are presently able to influence, circumvent, or corrupt the U.S. political, electoral and lawmaking system. The lengths to which such entities will go to peddle that influence. And, in the case of Manafort and Russia, an expansive effort both to hide such activities and to circumvent or undermine U.S. law and order."
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magnamentis

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1548 on: October 31, 2017, 06:28:50 PM »

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1549 on: October 31, 2017, 07:14:26 PM »
that would be nice  ;)

https://www.blick.ch/news/ausland/donald-trump-news-ticker-id6132479.html


The article doesn't seem to translate, at least in chrome with ad-buster.


Has anyone read the wiki on Papadopoulos? He apparently was writing anti-Russian articles in right wing Israeli publications prior to his involvement with Ben Carson's, or Trump's campaigns & only recently turned 30.
Who is this guy?


Terry