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rboyd

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #200 on: May 16, 2018, 09:46:42 PM »
Its one thing to get production rates up (2,662 per week estimated by Bloomberg), another to do it profitably. That's much harder, and needs long-term focus. The doubling to 5,000 per week will bring a new host of problems (volume doublings always seem to do that, whether its a production line or computer software). The only proof will be the next quarterly report, then we will see. If Tesla still has negative EBITDA then things could get nasty very fast. I will stop commenting until then (or if something newsworthy happens in between).

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/

Bob Wallace

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #201 on: May 16, 2018, 10:10:14 PM »
2,662 per week at $45k per car and a 20% GPM = $1,245,816,000 annual earnings from M3 production.

Tesla's annual losses, including depreciation, have averaged $778,324,000 per year over the last five years. 

$1,245,816,000 M3 earnings - $778,324,000 average annual loss = $467,492,000 net profit.


oren

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #202 on: May 16, 2018, 10:46:38 PM »
I think these calculations are too simplistic. Gross margin isn't a static thing. When you overbuild automation and then put manual labor on overtime to replace some of it, your gross margin may not be what you expected it to be, and may actually turn negative under some circumstances.
I do believe Elon when he says he expects to turn cash flow positive in Q3, but I would feel much safer actually seeing it happen. But this really belongs in the cars thread.

Bob Wallace

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #203 on: May 16, 2018, 11:02:30 PM »
Musk has stated that the GPM for M3s will be 25%.  I used 20%.

Currently the average selling price for M3s is around $50k. I used $45k.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #204 on: May 17, 2018, 02:33:07 AM »
Isn't Elon supposed to be sleeping in the car production plant to get the lines whipped into shape?

It’s all good.

Musk’s new comfy, crowd-sourced/donated couch was delivered, so he should be sleeping better.  ;)
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-fans-elon-musk-new-couch-18k-charity/

And the Boring Company is buying Tesla equipment. 8)
https://teslamotorsclub.com/blog/2018/04/28/the-boring-company-bought-400000-worth-of-equipment-from-tesla/

Besides, he now has interns solving all his production problems for him, haven’t you heard?  ;D
https://electrek.co/2018/05/16/tesla-hires-canadian-interns-as-professional-problem-solvers-elon-musk/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #205 on: May 17, 2018, 08:17:16 PM »
Elon Musk’s Boring Co. to build concrete batch plant for tunnel “rings”
Quote
Elon Musk’s tunneling startup, The Boring Company, will use custom concrete rings for its tunneling projects. According to a request for tax exclusion that the company submitted to the California Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority last December, the Boring Co. tunnels will use a type of concrete that is superior to the industry standard.

As stated in the company’s documents, The Boring Company intends to build a batch plant and a carousel system to manufacture and transport concrete rings — tunnel walls made up of multiple segments that are linked together. The tunneling startup expects that the rings it will be producing would be able to withstand earthquakes and over 100 years of continuous use.

The Boring Company noted that it would utilize “advanced materials” to manufacture its tunnels’ concrete walls. The concrete that the company intends to produce would be durable as well, with the startup stating that the segments are expected to reach strengths in excess of 6,500 pounds per square inch.

Apart from this, the startup’s concrete also has a setting time of just 1-7 days, substantially shorter than the industry standard of 28 days. The Boring Company further noted that the concrete it would be using is formulated in a way that would make the segments incredibly dense, making the Boring Co.’s rings less permeable and more resistant to corrosion.

The concrete rings for the Boring Company tunnels are only as effective as the machine that makes and sets them, however. In this light, the tunneling startup stated that it would be using a fully-automated carousel system that is designed to transport and set the concrete rings without human intervention.

“The system used to produce the concrete rings has been customized by The Boring Company, and the company represents that it is the world’s first fully-automated carousel system. This equipment requires precise engineering and will allow for higher precision and speeds than what is currently on the market, according to the TBC.

“Additionally, the fully-automated carousel will enable the production and transportation of the rings without human intervention, but The Boring Company represents that the process will still be monitored by staff for safety and quality from a control center. TBC represents this carousel system, and the specialized moulds will produce rings that are lighter than standard concrete rings, while maintaining their strength.”


The document also revealed that The Boring Co. would be making the manufacturing facility of the concrete rings fully electric. Apart from being more environmentally-friendly than conventional systems that use fossil fuels, an all-electric manufacturing process for the company’s concrete segments is expected to result in a 20% decrease in energy consumption. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-concrete-rings-tunnels/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #206 on: May 17, 2018, 08:37:36 PM »
I'm now 99% convinced that Elon is taking the Hyperloop underground.

If Boring can bring down the cost of tunneling anywhere close to what Elon has suggested then we may well see the largest infrastructure project ever.  And it may be privately financed. 

If the 'loop can run faster than airlines and cost to ride per mile is less than flying then it's Katy bar the door.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #207 on: May 18, 2018, 03:32:57 AM »
I'm now 99% convinced that Elon is taking the Hyperloop underground.

If Boring can bring down the cost of tunneling anywhere close to what Elon has suggested then we may well see the largest infrastructure project ever.  And it may be privately financed. 

If the 'loop can run faster than airlines and cost to ride per mile is less than flying then it's Katy bar the door.

Just a note about nomenclature: Musk uses “Loop” to refer to his ~150 mph skate concept, versus a full vacuum “hyperloop.”  ;)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #208 on: May 18, 2018, 03:41:49 AM »
I'm now 99% convinced that Elon is taking the Hyperloop underground.

If Boring can bring down the cost of tunneling anywhere close to what Elon has suggested then we may well see the largest infrastructure project ever.  And it may be privately financed. 

If the 'loop can run faster than airlines and cost to ride per mile is less than flying then it's Katy bar the door.

 Going underground will avoid a lot of problems. Right-of-way land fights, conflicts with surface traffic, and adverse weather once the line is in operation, for starters.  Parking-space-sized entrances, rather than grand stations (or ramps) will also mean the system can be more easily integrated into existing infrastructure.

Elon Musk just retweeted a statement from the LA Metro, writing:
“Excited for @boringcompany partnership with LA Metro”
https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/status/997279007933546497
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sidd

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #209 on: May 18, 2018, 03:57:10 AM »
"Right-of-way land fights"

I think most titles include rights underground in the USA, so regardles of whther he puts it above or belo, Musk will have to negotiate with landowners.

sidd

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #210 on: May 18, 2018, 05:44:56 AM »
"Right-of-way land fights"

I think most titles include rights underground in the USA, so regardles of whther he puts it above or belo, Musk will have to negotiate with landowners.

sidd

If the government judges the infrastructure to be in the national interest then routes could run underneath federal/state highways.  And/or eminent domain could be used to smooth the right of way process. 

Bob Wallace

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #211 on: May 18, 2018, 07:36:27 AM »
Quote
Elon Musk finally shed pulled back the curtain on where The Boring Company is headed. And, well, it's definitely not boring.

The billionaire entrepreneur on Thursday showed off his concept for the Loop, a "personalized mass transit" system that carries 16 people and travels at 150 miles per hour, which could get you from downtown Los Angeles to Los Angeles International Airport in eight minutes in a vacuum tube. His projected fare for people would be only $1. He also said he envisions dozens to hundreds of small stations, about the size of a sing

https://www.cnet.com/news/elon-musks-boring-company-wants-to-charge-1-for-a-150-mph-loop-ride-space-x-tesla/

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #212 on: May 18, 2018, 12:16:33 PM »
"Right-of-way land fights"

I think most titles include rights underground in the USA, so regardles of whther he puts it above or belo, Musk will have to negotiate with landowners.

sidd

Many places in the U.S. specifically deny landowners underground rights, leaving them open to intrusion by mining and fracking without recompense.  Also:  pipelines.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 12:34:02 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #213 on: May 18, 2018, 12:20:52 PM »
Elon Musk tweeted this is “the most boring presentation ever.”  :D

Here is last night’s talk, with a short Q&A at the end.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AwX9G38vdCE&feature=youtu.be

Screen cap below.

Edit:
CEQA: The California Environmental Quality Act
EIR:  Environmental Impact Report

“Personalized mass transportation”
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 12:47:25 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Archimid

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #214 on: May 18, 2018, 04:18:13 PM »
Some one over at Reddit did this wonderful summary of the presentation SigmetNow linked. I think he got everything.

Quote
(I've of course probably missed something, skip all the way down to find out when Not a flamethrowers are coming. I bolded it.)

Ultimately, the boring company is trying to reduce traffic in cities. If flying cars was a good option, they'd take it, but they don't think it is, so they won't.

Human walking speed is 3 miles, snail speed .03, boring machine .003. Goal is to beat snail but future ultimate goal (someday) is to reach 1/10th Human speed or .3 miles an hour. 10x and 100x respectively.

They intend to do the following to increase speed (Or have): Put in struts as they dig, increasing speed by x3-x4, they've just tripled power, use batteries (tesla) to remove need for high voltage cable, put more into R&D in general.

Made an electric locomotive to haul shit tons of dirt using model 3 batteries. Makes it safer. Believe they have the largest battery electric locomotive but unsure.

Using dirt they dig to make concrete they use for struts

Making bricks that are pretty durable for 10 cents~ or so, stronger than cinder block, much more smooth, rated at 5000 PSI.

I dont... Lego or possibly pyramids out of the bricks? Joke or not was hard to tell.

General details for the loop such as: multi-level high speed system, with no "stops" just A to B and vice versa (I think, little fuzzy on this), costs 1$ per passenger, hundreds to eventually thousands of stations.

Hyper loop details: 16 passengers (Focus on public transportation), 700 mph, LA to SF in 30 minutes, all electric (of course, it's elon).

They have actually made a test hyperloop, going to 300 miles an hour, vacuum tunnel, .8 miles long by spacex. Continuing to improve on it.

They said they do a hyperloop competition each year. This is the first I think I've heard it suggested that they'll do one each year.

Planning to take passengers soon on test tunnels (known) but the purpose is because they're unsure the best way to proceed without community feedback.

Want to connect with the metro lines in LA

showed a preview of kinda a loop transit for bigger locations, where there was like 8 different loop "buses"

(Thought this was interesting) A lot of people working at the boring company are either ex-SpaceX employees or current Spacex employees.

I am going to take a pause in between because they answered a lot of questions next:

Q: Will you run into utilities?

A. No. We are below the utilities, no moles, no worms, just pure rock. 30 minimum feet below the surface.

Q. Will you use the test tunnels for public transit?

A: For community feedback, technically could be used like transit, but not priority to be used as a transport system atm.

Q: Earthquakes and sinkhole?

A: Earthquakes are like waves on the ocean. It'd be like a hurricane on the surface but while being in a submarine. It's safer in a (properly made) tunnel. Earthquakes are a non issue.

Sink holes: Low concern, Extreme safety. We have machines in place to monitor movement of dirt and immediately take care if there's any concern. Properly made (tunnels), like the metro, are built with them in mind.

Q. Are you going to conflict with the metro system?

A. No. Our tunnels go below the metro ones, no interference.

Q. CEQA? (I don't know what this is but environmental)

A. We will be submitting environmental impact report and have submitted a publically available 1600 page report for the exception we were given to build the tunnel.

Q. Induced demand?

A: (skipped? I didn't see an answer.)

Now it switched to community questions:

Q. What engineering challenges are you expecting from drilling underwater and are you considering using immersed tube tunnels?

A. Looking long term in hyper loop, the seal will prevent all water, gas and won't have an issue.

Q. How much will it cost to travel to LAx to Sherman oaks

A. 1$

Q. utilities, you sure?

A. We will just go as deep as need be.

Q. When are we going to get not a flamethrowers?

A. Soon, encountering delivery challenges. But we have a solution. Starting delivery in two weeks

Q. What techniques did you learn from modifying the gadot(first machine) that were able to apply to linestorm (second machine).

A. Linestorm is a hybrid between old and a proof rock (different machine). Proof rock is aspirationally, a very different type of boring machine 10x faster. Linestorm is to modify segment direction, lot more automation, continued drilling. Having a passing lane helps.

Q. where will the entrances and exits be, will that cause traffic?

A. there will be a lot, the size of a parked car, all throughout the city. Because there isn't a mass dump of people, it won't be a major traffic problem.

Q. Will boring company be willing to do a full EIR (?).

A. Yes, for a much larger system, just will take a long while to make it, submit it, have it approved, etc. It could take years.

Q. Will you organize a big party before tunnel launch?

A. Quote "Of course." - elon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BoringCompany/comments/8kbh70/this_is_what_we_learned_from_the_recent/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #215 on: May 18, 2018, 07:08:54 PM »
One cost saving measure is to make concrete on site. 

Another is to make and sell blocks from spoils for 10 cents.  This would be a huge gain over having to pay to haul away and dump spoils. 

The blocks have the potential to be much better than standard concrete blocks and much cheaper.  Interlocking blocks would mean that walls could be dry stacked (no mortar between blocks) and then concrete could be pumped into the wall from the top to lock the blocks in place.  Huge labor savings.

This, to me, is a way in which Elon (and team) do things differently.  Rather than costing out the project and figuring out what it will cost to get rid of the spoils as construction companies would do Boring thought about how to deal with the spoils in a no-cost or even profit making manner.

TerryM

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #216 on: May 18, 2018, 07:52:13 PM »
OT
Space X is postponing launch of the new GRACE satellites until the 22nd or 23d.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/spacex-launch-nasa-iridium-satellites-120000994.html

I'm sure everything will go off without a hitch, but I wish they were using a more reliable system.
Space X may prove to be the future of rocketry, but today there are proven technologies with far higher rates of success.
Space X claims ~96% success, but the last 20 years of manned flights run ~ 99.4%. Why take any chances with such a valuable load?
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #217 on: May 18, 2018, 08:05:51 PM »
That Reddit summary, while detailed, is only fair — the writer doesn’t seem terribly familiar with Musk’s/The Boring Company’s past activities.  For example, Musk has tweeted that the pyramid bricks will definitely be a thing; not a joke.

Here’s Electrek’s article, with a bit more:
Elon Musk releases more details about the Boring Company’s plan: $1 fare personalized mass transit
https://electrek.co/2018/05/18/boring-company-elon-musk-transit-system-los-angeles/

I love their electric locomotive — with pockets!  :D
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #218 on: May 18, 2018, 08:46:49 PM »
OT
Space X is postponing launch of the new GRACE satellites until the 22nd or 23d.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/spacex-launch-nasa-iridium-satellites-120000994.html

I'm sure everything will go off without a hitch, but I wish they were using a more reliable system.
Space X may prove to be the future of rocketry, but today there are proven technologies with far higher rates of success.
Space X claims ~96% success, but the last 20 years of manned flights run ~ 99.4%. Why take any chances with such a valuable load?
Terry

Let’s start with SpaceX being half the price of a comparable ULA launch.  Doing more launches per year.  With technology not available elsewhere (the SpaceX Dragon is the only capsule that can return large amounts of cargo/specimens/mice back to earth from the International Space Station— the Soyuz has only a tiny cargo return capacity — all other cargo capsules burn up during reentry). 

Manned flights require vastly different safeguards than for satellites, so of course the statistics are different.  Musk mentioned the “thousands and thousands and thousands” of requirements for the new Falcon 9 Block 5 rocket to be certified for eventual human flight.  While no other company or government has returned a rocket to earth from orbit, SpaceX has landed 25 successfully.  SpaceX has already launched 50 — count ’em, 50! — satellites for Iridium (the main customer for Tuesday’s launch, along with two NASA GRACE follow-on satellites).  They seem quite satisfied with SpaceX’s performance.  Iridium said recently they are racing to keep up with SpaceX’s increasing launch availability, so they can complete their satellite constellation as soon as possible.

Slightly back on topic, the head of The Boring Company formerly worked for SpaceX, many of the other TBC employees are also from there, and they make use of SpaceX’s knowledge and experience.
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ghoti

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #219 on: May 18, 2018, 09:02:08 PM »
Terry the delay is due to the Air Force range not being ready not because of Iridium, Grace, or SpaceX. But it is easy to blame SpaceX for all delays.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #220 on: May 18, 2018, 09:54:22 PM »
Making bricks of the spoils will make different types of bricks in different places: a brick made of limestone crumbs will be very different from one made of quartzite crumbs or basalt crumbs.  I don't think I'd want a brick made from odoriferous (oil) shale.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #221 on: May 18, 2018, 10:22:53 PM »
Making bricks of the spoils will make different types of bricks in different places: a brick made of limestone crumbs will be very different from one made of quartzite crumbs or basalt crumbs.  I don't think I'd want a brick made from odoriferous (oil) shale.

I wondered about that.  Maybe the spoil only makes up a limited percent of the brick recipe?  And the special “finish” the bricks have will seal in any flavors smells?
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Archimid

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #222 on: May 18, 2018, 10:27:26 PM »
Terry M. The good thing is that the GRACE satellites are going up in a flight proven core. The unknowns are highly reduced. The "more reliable" rockets you are talking about are brand new. Any manufacturing defect is just waiting waiting to be found.

Tor Bejnar: I was wondering about that too. I assume that the difference might be in the manufacturing process. That I know off the typical brick is made with heat and cement, Boring bricks are made with high pressure and cement. Maybe the high pressure guarantees minimum metrics like load capacity. Mass  will certainly be different between blocks of different materials but maybe the difference is so small that it doesn't matter.
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TerryM

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #223 on: May 18, 2018, 11:05:49 PM »
Terry the delay is due to the Air Force range not being ready not because of Iridium, Grace, or SpaceX. But it is easy to blame SpaceX for all delays.
Not so.
From my earlier link.

Iridium representatives said Monday (May 14) that the launch would slip by two days, to give SpaceX time to deal with a "minor processing issue" associated with the two-stage Falcon 9, according to Spaceflight Now.

This 2 day postponement for Space X to deal with their 'minor processing issue', lead to a further delay of one day from Vandenberg over 'range issues'.

Sig,

It's not any possible cost savings, or the possibility of landing a rocket back on earth that concern me. I don't want the new GRACE satellites to be lost, and I'm aware that other systems have a lower rate of failure.
The last time this one flew the spy satellite didn't make orbit - good!


Mar,1, 2013 - problems with dragon capsule caused 1 day late arrival at ISS
June 28, 2015 - explosion and total load loss
Sept 1, 2016 - explosion during test fuling, total load lost
April 10, 2018 - Zuma is lost, not Space X's fault.

I don't want Space X to stop development nor to cease launching satellites. I do think the new GRACE units are too important to launch on anything but the most reliable launch vehicle.
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #224 on: May 19, 2018, 01:22:10 AM »
Quote
I don't want Space X to stop development nor to cease launching satellites. I do think the new GRACE units are too important to launch on anything but the most reliable launch vehicle.
Terry

But what if the twice-the-price, “most reliable launch vehicle“ made the entire program too expensive to do at all? 

What if the other company’s limited flight schedule meant a delay in launching that risks the entire program being scrapped by a Congress whose “Science Committee” thinks Sea Level Rise is caused by rocks falling into the ocean? 

Risks have to be balanced.  Insurance would cover satellite loss.  The causes of the previous SpaceX failures are well known, and changes have been made as a result. 

Most importantly, NASA knows the risks better than anyone, yet it chose to go with SpaceX.
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TerryM

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #225 on: May 19, 2018, 03:17:04 AM »
Sig
They began building this pair in Feb. 2013, and continuity with the GRACE data is an important consideration. If these go boom it will take years to build replacements and any hope of a continuous data set will be lost.
They were originally to have been launched on a Russian/Ukrainian rocket, but that partnership ended in 2015. I've no idea why one of the very venerable, and extremely reliable Soyuz rockets isn't being utilized,  (over 950 flights since 1966, and the only launch vehicle cleared for taking humans into space), but I suspect that it has more to do with politics than with concerns over costs or reliability.

There is probably less than a one in twenty chance that anything will go wrong so I'm almost certainly worrying over nothing, but I will sleep easier after learning that everything went off without a hitch. :P
Terry

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #226 on: May 19, 2018, 02:13:38 PM »
Wow just 10 Model S to offset a Falcon 9? I was expecting more. Model 3 is more efficient than Model S, so it would probably take less than 10 Model 3 to offset an F9 launch. That means that at  the current rate of 3.5k Model 3 a week, Tesla offsets 350 F9 launches a week. Not bad at all.

I wonder how those emissions cancellations work when Space X starts making its fuel from the Sun, water and ambient CO2, like they need to do to return from Mars.

I also wonder how many Loop trips are needed to cancel out an F9 launch.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #227 on: May 19, 2018, 04:11:53 PM »
...
I also wonder how many Loop trips are needed to cancel out an F9 launch.

Good question.  Because — besides offsetting the emissions of those pedestrians and cyclists who would have otherwise chosen ICE cars or buses for their trip — the Loop will, for the brief period the journey entails, transform any ICE car it is transporting into an EV!

Edit:  Although more important than the time duration of the trip is how many ICE miles (or kilometers!  ;) ) are offset.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 05:06:19 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #228 on: June 14, 2018, 01:33:20 PM »
The Boring Company:  ”We’re really excited to work with the Mayor and the City to bring this new high-speed public transportation system to Chicago!”
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/10071193744092733

Chicago Tribune:  Chicago has selected Elon Musk’s Boring Company to build high-speed transit tunnels between the Loop and O’Hare.
https://twitter.com/chicagotribune/status/1007090460240891905

Quote
In choosing Boring, Emanuel and senior City Hall officials are counting on Musk’s highly touted but still unproven tunneling technology over the more traditional high-speed rail option that until recently had been envisioned as the answer to speeding up the commute between the city’s central business district and one of the world’s busiest airports.

Emanuel and Boring officials said it’s too early to provide a timeline for the project’s completion or its estimated cost, but they said Boring would pay for the entire project. That would include the construction of a new station at O’Hare and the completion of the mothballed superstation built at Block 37 under previous Mayor Richard M. Daley, who like Emanuel pushed for high-speed rail access to O’Hare.
...
Under the proposal, passengers would be able to travel from the Loop to O’Hare in just 12 minutes at an estimated cost of $20 to $25 per ride. A final route for the high-speed tunnels is still subject to negotiations, and a Boring official and Deputy Mayor Robert Rivkin declined to identify where it might run.
...
All told, Boring has estimated the project will cost less than $1 billion, according to a source familiar with the company’s proposal but not authorized to speak publicly because of ongoing negotiations.

In exchange for paying to build the new transit system, Boring would keep the revenue from the system’s transit fees and any money generated by advertisements, branding and in-vehicle sales, Rivkin and the company said. Ownership of the twin tunnels has not been determined, but the Emanuel administration plans to seek a long-term lease to Musk’s company, a source familiar with the proposal said.
...
In the Loop system, 16-passenger vehicles would have both vertical and horizontal wheels. Boring officials stress the vehicles are “confined” and will “not be a car on auto drive.”

Those eight “guiding wheels” will run along a nearly 18-mile track. The four vertical wheels would be similar to traditional tires on a car running along a concrete shelf on the ground. Four additional wheels on the sides of the vehicle would likely be made of steel with a polyurethane coating and would help move the vehicle by running along concrete curbs along the tunnel’s walls.

“It is not on any kind of auto steering,” the official said. “It is a mechanical operation where the guide wheels turn the vehicle.”


The “skates,” as Musk and others call them, would be able to reach top speeds of 150 mph in the tunnels’ straight stretches while speeds would be reduced around curves, according to Boring.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-met-ohare-high-speed-transit-elon-musk-boring-company-20180613-story.html
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #229 on: June 14, 2018, 01:35:11 PM »
(Cross-posted from the Cars thread.)

This pdf on tunnel boring machines (TBM) may be of interest.  Different machine heads/types are used to work on different materials.  Pressure can be maintained in front of the drill head as necessary to deal with water or slurry.  Note: The Boring Company has significantly re-engineered the traditional TBM; I am not aware of the exact design of the new machine, but major improvements should be expected.

https://www.imia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/TBM-WG60-f-021209.pdf

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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #230 on: June 14, 2018, 04:57:32 PM »
If Boring has worked out a way to make Loop projects profitable with private financing I expect a lot of cities are going to be beating down their doors. 

Some traffic congestion relief for no cost to the municipality.  That's got to be hugely attractive.  I am disappointed to see the cost that high.  But from downtown to the airport is likely see most of the tickets purchased by businesses.

NPR report just stated 40 minutes by surface streets, 12 minutes by Loop.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #231 on: June 14, 2018, 06:31:35 PM »
Your Boring hat and not-a-flamethrower dollars at work!  ;)

The article says $20-25 for a Loop ride is half the cost of a typical ride-share or cab ride to O’Hare.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #232 on: June 14, 2018, 08:22:39 PM »
Your Boring hat and not-a-flamethrower dollars at work!  ;)

The article says $20-25 for a Loop ride is half the cost of a typical ride-share or cab ride to O’Hare.

On the other hand, Loop to O'Hare by surface train transit costs $3 for a 40-ish minute ride, no transfers.
People will be paying a substantial premium to save a bit of time.  If they use the tunnel to bring their car, there may be significant parking costs and traffic delays to park.
Use may be limited to the affluent, people in a rush, and people who want the thrill of going 150 mph through a tunnel.

Bob Wallace

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #233 on: June 14, 2018, 08:53:02 PM »
Businesses commonly pay for their people to take cabs/Uber rather than mass transit.  They fly their people business class.

If only business people take the Chicago Loop to the airport that's fewer cars on the road. 

The Loop or Hyperloop are not "the" solutions to low carbon transportation.  They are parts of the solution.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #234 on: June 14, 2018, 09:01:45 PM »
Your Boring hat and not-a-flamethrower dollars at work!  ;)

The article says $20-25 for a Loop ride is half the cost of a typical ride-share or cab ride to O’Hare.

On the other hand, Loop to O'Hare by surface train transit costs $3 for a 40-ish minute ride, no transfers.
People will be paying a substantial premium to save a bit of time.  If they use the tunnel to bring their car, there may be significant parking costs and traffic delays to park.
Use may be limited to the affluent, people in a rush, and people who want the thrill of going 150 mph through a tunnel.

No mention of transporting personal cars at this point.  Only using “confined,” “Autonomous 16-passenger vehicles.”

Much later edit:  The O’Hare station will be located in the new terminal they are building, which will no doubt be designed to handle future car traffic arriving via the Loop.

Quote
Use may be limited to the affluent, people in a rush, and people who want the thrill of going 150 mph through a tunnel.
And people who don’t like the train. ;)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 02:49:32 PM by Sigmetnow »
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TerryM

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #235 on: June 14, 2018, 09:09:31 PM »
If I need a cab to get me from the loop to my car or my room I might prefer to take a cab for the entire journey, particularly if I had lots of luggage and my boss was picking up the tab. :)
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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #236 on: June 14, 2018, 09:13:25 PM »
If I need a cab to get me from the loop to my car or my room I might prefer to take a cab for the entire journey, particularly if I had lots of luggage and my boss was picking up the tab. :)
Terry

Makes sense... until the Autonomous Loop Car can leave the track at the Loop station and take you all the way to your destination. :) 
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #237 on: June 14, 2018, 09:16:13 PM »
(Unfinished) Block 37 station definitely could use some work.  ;)

https://mobile.twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1007335675119665153

Photo: Elon Musk about to give a presentation there.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #238 on: June 14, 2018, 09:18:27 PM »
Meanwhile, back in the California tunnel:

“Green lights to Malibu”
https://mobile.twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1007325971689758720
11-second video at the link.


Edit:  what was not clear in the low-res Twitter video is that the car is using those extra metal guide wheels against curbs and rails, as described in the Chicago Tribune article.  This article has a clearer copy:
https://electrek.co/2018/06/14/tesla-model-x-rails-elon-musk-boring-company-tunnel/

This also shows that the “skates” for the Chicago Loop project could be relatively cheap — think a slightly larger Model X chassis and a simple body with seats, a display screen, environmental equipment, and little else.  Not at all like an expensive bus.  And this is not a new idea — Musk years ago mentioned the surprising amount of space available using the Model X chassis as a base for a new kind of transportation.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 10:24:19 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #239 on: June 14, 2018, 09:26:34 PM »
Bloomberg considers the economic aspects of the Chicago project.

“We’ve used up so much of our taxing and debt capabilities.  For us, we’ve got to do whatever we can to extract help from the private sector.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-14/chicago-hounded-by-woes-sees-musk-s-train-as-win-for-economy
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jai mitchell

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #240 on: June 15, 2018, 05:54:07 AM »
Elon Musk announcement for new chicago underground service to O'hare airport

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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #241 on: June 15, 2018, 08:04:19 AM »
And Elon says that the Loop will transition in to the Hyperloop.

Confirmed.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #242 on: June 15, 2018, 01:17:57 PM »
Tesla will make the pods.  And the timeline should be faster than most such projects.
Quote
Musk plans for the startup to start digging from both downtown Chicago and from the airport, which should result in a faster completion of the tunnel.

“Aspirationally,” Musk wants the Loop to be ready “within 18 to 24 months”, but he said that it could take longer though it’s “unlikely” going to take more than 3 years, he said.
https://electrek.co/2018/06/15/tesla-build-pod-boring-company-loop-elon-musk/
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numerobis

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #243 on: June 15, 2018, 02:41:18 PM »
2-3 Musk years. We’ll see what that means in calendar years.

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #244 on: June 15, 2018, 04:41:32 PM »
Elon gave an aspirational timeline, which is his normal estimation technique.  His aspirational timelines are a 'best case if we work very hard and nothing major goes wrong'.

This time he also gave a 'bad case' time limit that he thinks covers reasonable problems.  I don't think he's done that before.  Perhaps he feels it advisable since some people refuse to understand his aspirational timelines.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #245 on: June 15, 2018, 08:38:17 PM »
Will post this here since the title of the thread specifically mentions Musk. :)

Musk receives no salary, and he refuses the minimum wage payments required by the state of California.  He has said that his only reason for accumulating wealth now is to finance his Mars plans, so he’s not dependent on the government or other people’s money.  (Note also that The Boring Company will entirely finance the Chicago Loop project — the city is not investing anything, although they want to share in any “significant” profits....)

Norbert Elekes recently compared well-known CEO’s compensation to their average worker’s pay (image below), and Musk responded:
Quote
My “pay” is in options, which only matter if stock goes up & I sell. Will use that to make life multiplanetary, help education & environment on Earth w my foundation. Just don’t want us to be sad about the future.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1007647898161463297

Elon Musk plans to sell ‘major’ stake in Tesla in ‘about 20 years’ to finance SpaceX’s Mars plans
https://electrek.co/2018/06/15/elon-musk-plan-sell-major-stake-tesla-finance-spacex-mars-plans/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #246 on: June 15, 2018, 08:41:44 PM »
Out of that list only two(?) CEOs built the company they are running.

The others are just employees of companies created by someone else.

We need to get back to the ~30x spread that was common when the middle class was doing well in the US.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #247 on: June 15, 2018, 08:49:08 PM »
Out of that list only two(?) CEOs built the company they are running.

The others are just employees of companies created by someone else.

We need to get back to the ~30x spread that was common when the middle class was doing well in the US.

Ben & Jerry's (ice cream company) limited their pay to 5 to 1 over worker pay — but could find no one to replace them with that restriction when they retired.
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numerobis

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #248 on: June 16, 2018, 03:18:27 PM »
Musk, Bezos, and Zuckerberg are extremely rich — not off their salaries but off stock appreciation. They get paid mostly in stocks, then the stock goes up. The “salary” is the market value when the shares were issued, but they accepted that compensation with the expectation it would appreciate a lot afterwards.

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #249 on: June 16, 2018, 03:31:21 PM »
Musk, Bezos, and Zuckerberg are extremely rich — not off their salaries but off stock appreciation. They get paid mostly in stocks, then the stock goes up. The “salary” is the market value when the shares were issued, but they accepted that compensation with the expectation it would appreciate a lot afterwards.

As Warren Buffett pointed out - he pays a lower tax percentage than his secretary as his loot is from Capital Gains.
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