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Author Topic: The Boring Company  (Read 33105 times)

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #350 on: May 26, 2019, 03:41:51 PM »
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There are some big advantages to reusable rockets, but there are some big downsides too. For the ups to outweigh the downs, the rocket has to be able to be reused many times. SpaceX thinks this number is 10.
Incorrect.  The Block 5 Falcon 9 being made now is built to be reusable about 10 times with minimal refurbishment — the goal for 2019 is to show a turnaround time of 24 hours — and about 100 times in all.

You seem to really struggle with the difference between hoping something will work, and something that has already worked. They are up to 3 so far. Simple fact. Not 10, not 100, 3.
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #351 on: May 26, 2019, 03:43:10 PM »
If Musk can take Boring to where Space launches and electric mobility are today, the boring industry is in for a revolution

What exactly do you think that would look like?
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rboyd

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #352 on: May 27, 2019, 07:22:28 PM »
Maybe like this...

Elon Musk Says ‘Hyperloop’ Tunnel Is Now Just a Normal Car Tunnel Because ‘This Is Simple and Just Works’

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Back in 2017, Elon Musk had grand visions for the test track built by The Boring Company, his tunneling firm, in Los Angeles. The Boring Company’s tunneling work was closely linked to Musk’s Hyperloop idea, which would require hundreds of miles of tunneling to be viable, although the actual test track in California bore none of the traits of an air vacuum-based transportation system. It would have proprietary vehicles with varying capacities for private travel, public transport, or freight. They would travel along electrified skates for frictionless movement. It would be fast and efficient, but more importantly, it would be different, because he’s a genius.

Six months ago, the first demonstration of that track didn’t quite match that vision: it was a Tesla Model X on a sled going down a very bumpy tunnel at roughly 50 mph.

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The video’s marketing conceit is that the car in the tunnel beats a car trying to go the same distance on roads. You’ll never believe this, but the car that has a dedicated right of way wins. Congratulations to The Boring Company for proving dedicated rights of way are important for speedy transportation, something transportation planners figured out roughly two centuries ago. I’m afraid for how many tunnels they’ll have to dig before they likewise acknowledge the validity of induced demand.

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To recap: Musk’s company spent two years developing a very narrow car tunnel. To anyone who ever believed Elon Musk’s bullshit: you’ve been had.

https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-says-hyperloop-tunnel-is-now-just-a-normal-1835024474

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #353 on: May 27, 2019, 08:28:17 PM »
Maybe like this...

Elon Musk Says ‘Hyperloop’ Tunnel Is Now Just a Normal Car Tunnel Because ‘This Is Simple and Just Works’
...

The article says in essence, “You promised us high tech!  This is just a paved tunnel!  With a Normal Car!”

First, the Model X with Autopilot is not a “normal car.”  Let’s see them drive manually at 127 mph down a narrow, turning track and see how they do.

Without sleds, Jalopnik’s ICE cars wouldn’t be allowed to drive in the tunnels at all, so there’s that.

This is Now.  No reason sleds can’t happen later.  Seems like the Las Vegas project will need ‘people pods’ of some sort, which will be a new development.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 08:45:03 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Archimid

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #354 on: May 27, 2019, 08:33:02 PM »
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Congratulations to The Boring Company for proving dedicated rights of way are important for speedy transportation, something transportation planners figured out roughly two centuries ago.

Right. The only contribution is extending dedicated rights of way lanes into the third dimension. Not revolutionary at all /s
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #355 on: May 27, 2019, 09:56:54 PM »
“The Strait Times also reported that at least 40 train services in eastern Hokkaido were canceled over concerns that the extreme heat may distort the tracks.”
 :o 
Not a problem in Boring tunnels.... 8)

https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/record-heat-turns-deadly-in-japan-on-sunday-relief-to-arrive-on-tuesday/70008369
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #356 on: May 29, 2019, 05:17:50 PM »
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Congratulations to The Boring Company for proving dedicated rights of way are important for speedy transportation, something transportation planners figured out roughly two centuries ago.

Right. The only contribution is extending dedicated rights of way lanes into the third dimension. Not revolutionary at all /s

You should look into buying the ground space between NYC and Beijing in a straight line, 14 feet wide. The shortest distance is a straight line, and one day this will be highly profitable ground space. Ignore the fact that digging holes is extremely capital intensive, because these costs will come down 10X in the next year, and 10X in the year after that, and then basically it will be free. Cuz iterations.
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rboyd

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #357 on: May 30, 2019, 12:00:59 AM »
Its Moore's law right, or is that just for computers?

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #358 on: June 04, 2019, 03:06:23 AM »
Math. (Because your Loop car stops only at your destination.)

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< ... but really, how is putting a car through a tunnel more efficient than a train?  One car doing 60 mph is faster than a train carrying a thousand people doing 30 mph?
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 6/3/19, 8:41 PM
Avg speed of NY Subway is actually 17mph. TBC loop can run at 155mph with 16 pax autopods passing every second, routing automatically between tunnels to their destination. That’s 57,600/hour/lane & you can build dozens of lanes. Will crush any subway in throughput & convenience.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1135708083643191296
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #359 on: June 06, 2019, 07:34:45 AM »
https://www.inverse.com/article/56397-boring-company-subway-comparison

Elon Musk: Boring Co Loop "Will Crush" Subways in Throughput, Convenience

Musk may want to reconsider his tunnels being associating with "crush"ing. But hey, what can you expect from a bunch of total amateurs trying to drastically improve on a refined industrial process.
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oren

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #360 on: June 06, 2019, 08:12:01 AM »
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TBC loop can run at 155mph with 16 pax autopods passing every second, routing automatically between tunnels to their destination,” Musk’s response reads. “That’s 57,600/hour/lane & you can build dozens of lanes.
I can think of so many negative aspects for this type of setup (risk of accidents, ride inconvenience, need for very costly development of control technology, and much more), so I am extremely skeptical of these numbers. The proof will be in the pudding - the LVCC transit system - but no way it will reach such throughput or even 1/10 of that.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #361 on: June 06, 2019, 08:46:38 AM »
risk of accidents, ride inconvenience, need for very costly development of control technology, and much more

Funny Oren, these are exactly the point that convinced me of the concept.

You couldn't do it with humans driving. That's for sure.

In which scenario could it actually be possible? It would require a closed, somewhat deterministic system with fast and updatable computers, accurate sensors, and interconnectivity.

Well, that's exactly what this is, isn't it?

Sigmetnow

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #362 on: June 06, 2019, 03:11:54 PM »
Human control of trains is far from perfect;  stupid human interactions with speeding surface trains are too numerous to count.  And the US has been ridiculously slow in installing Positive Train Control, which could at least help.  Time to stop putting bandaids on an antiquated system.  Instead, mass transport must evolve.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 04:49:41 PM by Sigmetnow »
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #363 on: June 06, 2019, 03:31:16 PM »
risk of accidents, ride inconvenience, need for very costly development of control technology, and much more

Funny Oren, these are exactly the point that convinced me of the concept.

You couldn't do it with humans driving. That's for sure.

In which scenario could it actually be possible? It would require a closed, somewhat deterministic system with fast and updatable computers, accurate sensors, and interconnectivity.

Well, that's exactly what this is, isn't it?

No, it isn't. The sensors aren't accurate and there isn't interconnectivity.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #364 on: June 13, 2019, 06:06:51 AM »
Have some people here not ever been involved in doing something for the first time?  Something somewhat complex.  Generally one starts with some assumptions and refines their ideas as things are tried and better ideas developed.  We didn't get to the Moon by simply building a rocket and going there.  We worked our way there through numerous steps, developing the hardware needed over time.

A few years back Musk proposed the hyperloop, traveling through an almost vacuum in a tube at speeds faster than passenger jets.  He envisioned using an air compressor on the front of the passenger/freight pod to compress what air was in the tube and then blow it out through jets to position the pod equal distance from the tube walls.

There are a few problems with an above ground metal tube.  Acquiring right of way can be difficult and expensive, lots of NIMBY sorts of issues.  A metal tube exposed to sunlight is going to expand and then shrink as it cools.  Which means a bunch of tricky expansion joints.  And JoeBilly could easily shoot some holes in it 'just for fun', or more sinister people could blow up a section.

A solution to those three problems might be to go underground.  In order to make a tunnel water tight it has to be more than capable of maintaining a partial vacuum.  Tunnels are out of sight, out of mind.  And it's not hard to detect someone or something digging its way toward the tunnel long before damage could be inflicted.

But there's the cost of tunneling.  Musk and his crew of merry thinkers went to work and decided that by simply making the tunnels small they became much cheaper per mile.  Then they worked through a number of thing that they could do to drastically lower the cost of tunneling.  Things like almost constantly drilling rather than, on average, ten minutes out of each hour.  Improving the cooling system for the cutter so that it could run at higher speeds.  Finding a way to dispose of the wastes at no cost or even a bit of a profit.

Then bootstrapping.  Building a hyperloop from LA to NYC would require a lot more than pocket change.  The best route is probably building some somewhat short but very fast subway systems in which all rides are 'express', no stops between getting on and arriving at destination.  Build some systems, sell rides, make profits, use profits to build a modest length hyperloop.

The cheapest initial vehicle would be to take an existing battery powered car that could safely travel at 150+ MPH in the tunnel and simply use it.  Later a higher capacity passenger could be built but not until the first system is up, running, and making money.  In fact, it would be very possible to take the Tesla S/X skateboard and bolt a eight or twelve passenger pod on in place of the sedan/SUV body.

Boring has demonstrated that they can drill a tunnel rapidly and at a very attractive cost.  And that is using only a modified used tunneling machine.  Boring has the next two generations of their custom designed tunneling machines in production. 

Boring has demonstrated that they can use an 'off the shelf' Tesla and safely drive their short test tunnel at speeds in excess of 125 MPH.  The first used 'guiding wheels' to keep the car centered in the tunnel but later showed that Tesla's lane keeping software could accurately steer the car.  Yes, the ride was a bit bumpy but, remember, right up front Musk explained that the tunnel driving surface had not been installed.

Boring has demonstrated a prefab elevator that can be quickly installed and moves vehicles from street level to tunnel level rapidly.

Communication between vehicles and between vehicles and 'central command'?  How hard can that be.  Send out position and speed data a few times per second.  If a problem develops issue an "All Stop" to all vehicles behind the vehicle with a problem.  Sensors along the tunnel can serve to backup and verify data from individual cars.

Why would we want this to work?  Imagine leaving your house in a robotaxi, riding a short distance to a Loop spur, changing vehicles, and then going to the airport 20 miles away non-stop at over 150 MPH.  For small money.  Using renewable energy.

Think about not spending a half hour or more each day commuting in bumper to bumper traffic but zipping to work and then back home, giving you an extra hour each day to do something other than commute.

Will it work?  Maybe.  Looks good so far other than finding places to build the first few projects that will be needed for proof of concept.  (Or more proof of concept.)  Boring can bore economically, run cars at high speeds, and move them from surface street to tunnel quickly.  Now the remaining question becomes how inexpensive can they make it.

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #365 on: June 13, 2019, 07:50:23 AM »
Have some people here not ever been involved in doing something for the first time?  Something somewhat complex.  Generally one starts with some assumptions and refines their ideas as things are tried and better ideas developed.

This is literally how the world works.

Though logic and reason will not convince everyone i'm afraid.