Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: The Boring Company  (Read 31242 times)

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #300 on: January 20, 2019, 03:34:02 PM »
Sydney, Australia!

Elon Musk Tells Lawmaker The Boring Company Can Dig via Mountain for Cheap
Quote
Elon Musk wants to solve city traffic woes one tunnel at a time. The Boring Company founder, responding to an Australian state lawmaker via Twitter on Wednesday, stated the firm could build a two-way high-speed transit route through the Blue Mountains to connect Sydney and the west for a surprisingly low price.

Musk has been gradually providing more details about his tunnel-digging venture, founded two years ago with the aim of resolving Los Angeles traffic, which hosted a press event in December 2018 to unveil its 1.14-mile initial test tunnel in Hawthorne, California. Jeremy Buckingham, a member of the New South Wales parliament’s upper house, asked Musk how much it would cost to build a 31-mile tunnel through the mountains to stop Sydney “choking with traffic.” Musk responded that it would cost around $15 million per kilometer for a bi-directional high-speed tunnel, equating to $750 million for the whole route. Musk also stated that stations to enter and exit the tunnel would cost around $50 million each. ...
https://www.inverse.com/article/52517-the-boring-company-elon-musk-details-price-to-dig-via-australian-mountain
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #301 on: January 28, 2019, 10:36:50 PM »
https://futurism.com/the-byte/boring-company-tunnel-opening

Did anyone go on the Dec 10th, open to the public, Boring Company LA tour?

Please attach photos or videos or links.


Also, how is the Chicago tunnel going? Any updates?
big time oops

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #302 on: January 29, 2019, 03:58:20 PM »
https://futurism.com/the-byte/boring-company-tunnel-opening

Did anyone go on the Dec 10th, open to the public, Boring Company LA tour?

Please attach photos or videos or links.


Also, how is the Chicago tunnel going? Any updates?

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2000.msg184659.html#msg184659   ;)
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #303 on: January 29, 2019, 07:46:01 PM »
So the public tour never happened and nothing is going on in Chicago, or did I miss something?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 10:51:41 PM by GoSouthYoungins »
big time oops

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #304 on: January 30, 2019, 05:52:56 PM »
So the public tour never happened and nothing is going on in Chicago, or did I miss something?

The December event was “public,” but limited to those who obtained tickets, due to site size, and time limitations.  It took hours for all the attendees to get their rides as it was; an unlimited public event would simply not be possible. 

However, public tours do happen:
Quote
The Boring Company (@boringcompany)
8/14/18, 3:25 AM
We are hosting student tours of the Hawthorne tunnel site for schools in LA County! Each tour can accommodate up to 30 students. Interested faculty (or students with a faculty sponsor!) can reach out to studenttours@boringcompany.com
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1029267748377907200


The Chicago project is, ”In contract review, environmental review and permitting.”  Even Musk can’t speed that up significantly!
Quote
The Chicago Express Loop
The Boring Company has been selected by the Chicago Infrastructure Trust (CIT), on behalf of the City of Chicago, to enter into exclusive negotiations to design, build, finance, operate and maintain an O’Hare Express service. The Chicago Express Loop will provide fast and convenient transportation between O’Hare Airport (Terminals 1-3) and Block 37 in downtown Chicago. Status: In contract review, environmental review and permitting
More at: https://www.boringcompany.com/chicago/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #305 on: February 09, 2019, 06:10:57 PM »
San Jose, California

Elon Musk’s Boring Company in talks for airport tunnel project in Silicon Valley
Quote
The Boring Company, Elon Musk’s tunneling startup, might have another tunnel project on its hands. In a statement earlier this week, San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo stated that he has been in talks with The Boring Co. over the last 18 months to discuss the possibility of building a tunnel linking Diridon Station and the Mineta San Jose International Airport — a distance of about 4 miles.

Addressing reporters at City Hall, the San Jose, CA mayor noted that the tunnel project could give Diridon Station a chance to “grow with the city,” particularly as Google is expected to construct a campus near Diridon in the future, which would likely bring thousands of people to the area. Apart from this, Diridon Station, the city’s main transit hub, is expected to undergo an overhaul in the future, with the Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) line set to extend downtown to the station itself.

Around five years ago, cost estimates for the construction of a conventional rail link connecting the Mineta San Jose International Airport to Diridon were listed at a hefty $800 million. Liccardo noted that tunnels, particularly those constructed by The Boring Company, could cost just a fraction of the $800 million estimate. That said, the mayor clarified that the project, provided that it does happen, would not be locked with the Boring Co. 

“It’s not that cost effective. We’ve been looking at alternatives. This is going to be open to everybody. What we’ve been exploring is the technology,” the Liccardo said....
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-san-jose-airport-tunnel/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #306 on: March 06, 2019, 08:46:29 PM »
Las Vegas, Nevada.
Looks like the initial People Mover project would be a little over a mile in length; the “potential” route might be an additional 5 or 6 miles, plus the all the short branches to stations.  Unknown how many tunnels the initial “loop” (the solid line on the map) will consist of; obviously at least two. A “fiscal impact” of $35 to $55 million is pocket change for Vegas.  Note: Tesla’s Gigafactory 1 is in Nevada, so they’ve bet on Elon’s new-tech projects before.

LVCVA and Elon Musk's The Boring Company Collaborating for Future of Transportation in Las Vegas
Quote
LAS VEGAS -- The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority (LVCVA) today, March 6, 2019, announced a recommendation to select The Boring Company (TBC) to design, construct and operate a people mover for the Las Vegas Convention Center via a loop of underground express-route tunnels that could carry passengers in autonomous electric vehicles at high speeds. Upon approval by the LVCVA Board of Directors on March 12, the project would be another first for Las Vegas and have the potential to connect Downtown, the Las Vegas Convention Center, the Las Vegas Boulevard Resort Corridor, McCarran International Airport and beyond. 

Pending the LVCVA Board’s approval during their March 12 meeting, TBC and the LVCVA would determine specific design, construction and operational plans and negotiate a contract for final approval by the LVCVA Board in a subsequent meeting anticipated by June 2019. The estimated fiscal impact of the potential project is $35 to $55 million.
https://press.lvcva.com/News-Releases/lvcva-and-elon-musk-s-the-boring-company-collaborating-for-future-of-transportation-in-las-vegas/s/ef4db4ea-f604-4028-be6d-feb1017376df
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #307 on: March 06, 2019, 09:38:06 PM »
More:

Las Vegas welcomes Elon Musk’s Boring Company, transport tunnel in talks
Quote
Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority CEO Steven Hill stated that the Boring Company’s technology fits well with the options being explored for mass transit in the campus. Hill notes that since there is not a lot that can be done on the surface anymore, a good option is to start looking at underground solutions. This is where Elon Musk’s tunneling startup comes in.

“We hope to explore the opportunity to move this kind of technology into the entire city. We’ve long recognized that as Las Vegas continues to grow, we have some chip points in moving people. There’s not room on the surface really to add lanes on the road every place we need them, particularly up and down the Strip and to the airport. So being underground is something that is very attractive,” Hill said.

Sources also hinted that the project could come with a price tag of $35 million to $55 million, a fraction of the cost quoted by the Boring Company’s above-ground competitors. If the project gets the necessary approval, it will be The Boring Company’s first official commercial contract. ...
https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-boring-company-las-vegas-tunnel/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #308 on: March 07, 2019, 01:07:13 AM »
More detailed map.  Possible ‘Grand Lobby Connector’!

The Boring Company’s president, Steve Davis, says that the project could be done in a year.

Las Vegas bets on Elon Musk’s Boring Company for tunnel project
https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/3/6/18252302/boring-company-las-vegas-dig-plans-2021
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #309 on: March 12, 2019, 09:12:23 PM »
Las Vegas tunnel is Approved!
Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 3/12/19, 3:48 PM
Looking forward to building a Boring Company tunnel in Vegas. Assuming to be operational by end of year!
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1105556139184410626

LVCVA moving ahead with underground transport system
Quote
The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority is going underground.
The organization’s board of directors on Tuesday approved a proposal with Elon Musk’s The Boring Co. to develop a subterranean people-moving transit system costing between $35 million and $55 million for the Las Vegas Convention Center in a 10-3 vote.

Proposed route options would run from the Convention Center’s Green Lot east of the South Hall to a new parking area west of the West Hall currently under construction, a distance of more than 1¼ miles.
LVCVA President and CEO Steve Hill and Steve Davis, president of The Boring Co., described what’s being called the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop as an autonomous point-to-point on-demand system with vehicles capable of transporting up to 16 people at a time.
The system would use autonomous electric vehicles, or AEVs, on three types of Tesla Model X chassis with rubber tires operated in automatic pilot mode.

Using paired one-way tunnels with a series of on- and off-ramps, the AEVs could be hailed by app for direct service to another station. Conventioneers would access the underground system by elevators, escalators or stairs. Hill said the LVCVA envisions use of the Convention Center Loop to be free to conventioneers.
While the system is capable of speeds of up to 150 mph, the short distance between stations at the Convention Center would keep a vehicle’s speed at a maximum of around 50 mph.

According to LVCVA documents, pre-cast concrete tunnels would be built about 30 feet below grade level with a 12-foot inner diameter and a 13½-foot outer diameter. ...
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/tourism/lvcva-moving-ahead-with-underground-transport-system-1616329/
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #310 on: March 27, 2019, 01:43:42 AM »
Elon Musk’s Hilariously Bad Subway System Leaves Virginia Transit Officials Baffled

https://www.gq.com/story/elon-musk-yelp-reviews

giggles.
big time oops

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3521
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 431
  • Likes Given: 931
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #311 on: March 27, 2019, 10:12:00 AM »
Cheaper, faster tunneling is a great idea and could solve a lot of problems (if it works). All the rest of the Boring company ideas so far struck me as quite bad. I am sure there are better ways to use small tunnels. Maybe the Las Vegas project will be more sensible.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #312 on: April 06, 2019, 02:54:58 AM »
Cheaper, faster tunneling is a great idea and could solve a lot of problems (if it works). All the rest of the Boring company ideas so far struck me as quite bad. I am sure there are better ways to use small tunnels. Maybe the Las Vegas project will be more sensible.

Cheaper and faster tunneling?!? Musk bought a used boring machine. What innovation were you tricked into thinking was invented?
big time oops

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3521
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 431
  • Likes Given: 931
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #313 on: April 06, 2019, 10:00:44 AM »
Have you ever tried to google the answer or do you just rely on negative sources?

Quote
...the innovations The Boring Company says it’s bringing are to the business of tunneling itself: having the tunnel-boring machines run electric instead of on diesel fuel; tripling the tunnel-boring machine’s power; automating the machine so it doesn’t rely on human operators; and allowing it to operate continuously.
Diesel locomotives require ventilation underground while electric locomotives don't.
Plus, the idea that a transport tunnel can be 14 feet in diameter instead of the standard 28 feet.

The big question they have not solved yet IMHO is how to use such tunnels effectively for mass transport.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #314 on: April 18, 2019, 07:46:42 PM »
DOT Completes Review of Draft Environmental Assessment for the Proposed “Loop” Tunnel Project Between Baltimore and Washington, D.C.
Quote
Today, the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) announced the availability of a draft version of the Environmental Assessment for the Washington DC to Baltimore Loop Project, the first step in a joint federal-state review of a non-traditional transportation technology. The Boring Company, of Hawthorne, CA, is considering the future development of a privately-funded, underground, high-speed tunnel facility to help alleviate area congestion. The proposed project would consist of twin, underground tunnels approximately 35 miles in length between Washington, D.C. and Baltimore, MD, which in part would follow the right-of-way under the Baltimore Washington Parkway. The proposed station terminals would be located on New York Avenue (northwest of Union Station) in D.C. and in the Camden Yards area in downtown Baltimore. ...
https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot-completes-review-draft-environmental-assessment-proposed-%E2%80%9Cloop%E2%80%9D-tunnel-project

https://www.dcbaltimoreloop.com/#dea

Below is a link to the report.  500 pages! :o Details about how and where the Loop would be constructed, and how it might impact the environment and the surrounding area.
https://www.dcbaltimoreloop.com/DraftLoopEA.pdf
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #315 on: May 19, 2019, 01:26:02 AM »
The Boring Company would build two 0.8-mile tunnels and three underground stations at the Las Vegas Convention Center, the world’s largest single-level convention center.  Construction would begin as soon as September, with the entire system being completed by November 2020.

Las Vegas is about to take a gamble on Musk’s Boring Company
Sat 18 May 2019
Quote
Las Vegas is set to give Elon Musk’s Boring Company its first payout: a $44m contract to build a high-speed underground transit system serving an expanded convention center. But the city is hedging its bets. The contract withholds over two-thirds of payments until construction is complete, and specifies hefty penalties should the system fail to accommodate enough passengers.
...
But Steve Hill, CEO of the LVCVA , said at the same meeting that the city simply could not afford any of the alternatives.
The Boring Company’s $44,250,00 fixed price contract came in at about a fifth of a reported $215m bid submitted for a rival, elevated rail system. Musk said that he thinks the Loop’s small tunnels can be built for a tenth of the cost of traditional rail or road tunnels, and in less than a tenth of the time.

The Boring Company will need to rely on those economies as it embarks on the Las Vegas project. Under the contract, it would get only a little over a million dollars up front, receiving more money as it hits various milestones, including $2.5m for excavating the first station and $3.2m for completing the first 100 feet of tunnel. It will have to build all the tunnels, stations and system infrastructure on payments of less than $14m.

Payments would increase when the first autonomous electric vehicles start testing, around six weeks before the system opens in late 2020. The Boring Company’s final payments will depend on it demonstrating that it can transport 4,400 passengers an hour, day after day.
...
One solution The Boring Company proposed would be to use modified Model X vehicles that could accommodate up to 16 people, sitting, standing or in wheelchairs. The Boring Company has yet to show it has built those models.
...
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/17/las-vegas-is-about-to-take-a-gamble-on-musks-boring-company
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #316 on: May 20, 2019, 03:32:40 PM »

Las Vegas is about to take a gamble on Musk’s Boring Company



Um, no. They are providing a million dollars up front. Which is basically nothing.

This is just another Musk sham company. Musk embezzled funds from SpaceX to buy a small used tunneling machine. No innovation, no expertise, no nothing.
 
big time oops

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #317 on: May 20, 2019, 09:31:47 PM »

Las Vegas is about to take a gamble on Musk’s Boring Company



Um, no. They are providing a million dollars up front. Which is basically nothing.

This is just another Musk sham company. Musk embezzled funds from SpaceX to buy a small used tunneling machine. No innovation, no expertise, no nothing.

Here’s some information to educate yourself a bit and minimize further ignorant comments.

Boring Company's next-gen tunneling machine 'Line-Storm' is nearing activation
https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-line-storm-tunneling-machine-active/


Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/19/18, 5:29 PM
Perhaps lost in the transport debate is that @boringcompany built a 6000 ft tunnel in LA for ~$10M with V1 (Godot). Next tunnel will be made with V2 (Line-Storm). V3 (Prufrock), aspirationally 10X better, should be operational next year. For reference: citylab.com/transportation…
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1075518412200144896
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

SteveMDFP

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1186
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 95
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #318 on: May 20, 2019, 09:57:51 PM »
The Boring Co also has a project to connect Washington DC to Baltimore, near me.  I was quite interested in the idea, but I'm turning into an opponent.  Further details:

Not quite Hyper: The Boring Company’s DC-Baltimore “Loop” would move just 2,000 people per day
https://ggwash.org/view/71811/not-quite-hyper-the-boring-cos-dc-baltimore-loop-would-move-just-2000-people-per-day

The main problem is that there are only two stations, one in each city.  The two terminals are almost exactly the same as an *existing* commuter rail line.  The existing line has about 10 stops, and most riders get on or off somewhere other than the terminals.

So end-to-end would be something like 15 minutes instead of something like an hour.  For a cost of $80 instead of $8.  Whose time is worth more than $72 for 45 minutes?  Only the quite affluent.

The DC-B loop can only succeed, it seems, by siphoning off existing commuters, and eroding political support from the affluent for public transit.  This could reduce or eliminate rail service for folks depending on the existing line to get to work.

sedziobs

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 222
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 20
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #319 on: May 20, 2019, 10:17:59 PM »
The main problem is that there are only two stations, one in each city.

The draft EA includes only two stations as part of initial construction, but it also mentions potential intermediate stations.
Quote
The Loop Main Artery Tunnels are designed to transport more than 100,000 daily riders per direction per day, with the variation based on the final, and currently unknown, layout and quantity of intermediate Loop Stations. These 100,000 riders encompass trips between the endpoints in Washington D.C. and Baltimore, as well as trips between potential intermediate Loop Stations (e.g., Laurel to Greenbelt).

The Washington, D.C. Loop Station has a small footprint and would be used to accommodate approximately 1,000 passengers per direction per day. Therefore, upon construction of the proposed Project, the system would only support 1,000 riders per day per direction, with additional capacity potentially added later through the construction of additional Loop Stations. The locations, quantity, and size of potential future Loop Stations are unknown. Additional study and analysis of potential future expansion in Loop System infrastructure and ridership would be conducted later as a pre-condition of expansion.

SteveMDFP

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1186
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 95
  • Likes Given: 9
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #320 on: May 20, 2019, 10:48:10 PM »
The main problem is that there are only two stations, one in each city.

The draft EA includes only two stations as part of initial construction, but it also mentions potential intermediate stations.
 ...

Yes, more intermediate stops would likely improve the potential success of the business plan -- at the cost of more cannibalization of ridership on the existing line.  It's still essentially redundant infrastructure, likely to frustrate (rather than satisfy) the needs of the existing commuters.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #321 on: May 21, 2019, 04:44:36 AM »
The closest competition today is probably the Acela Express train, which is about $50, runs 12 times a day from Baltimore to Washington, and is subject to delays or cancellation due to weather.  The Loop would offer more flexible scheduling, smaller cars, and a quicker trip, regardless of the weather. 

Baltimore to Washington:  “Amtrak Acela Express offers 12 schedules for you to choose from. The tickets cost about $49.44, and the trip typically takes 35 minutes.”

I have not seen a price quoted for a Loop trip.  The ggwash article simply chose the most expensive option it could find:
Quote
Taking the Loop from DC to Baltimore would be cheap, if the company’s analysis is accurate. Boring says tickets—which you would book through a mobile app—would “be comparable to public transportation.” One-way tickets for MARC regional rail between the two cities is $8; Amtrak ticket prices vary but can be as low as $19 for the Regional or upwards of $80 for the Acela.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #322 on: May 22, 2019, 03:27:30 AM »

Las Vegas is about to take a gamble on Musk’s Boring Company



Um, no. They are providing a million dollars up front. Which is basically nothing.

This is just another Musk sham company. Musk embezzled funds from SpaceX to buy a small used tunneling machine. No innovation, no expertise, no nothing.

Here’s some information to educate yourself a bit and minimize further ignorant comments.

Boring Company's next-gen tunneling machine 'Line-Storm' is nearing activation
https://www.teslarati.com/boring-company-line-storm-tunneling-machine-active/


Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk) 12/19/18, 5:29 PM
Perhaps lost in the transport debate is that @boringcompany built a 6000 ft tunnel in LA for ~$10M with V1 (Godot). Next tunnel will be made with V2 (Line-Storm). V3 (Prufrock), aspirationally 10X better, should be operational next year. For reference: citylab.com/transportation…
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1075518412200144896

Giggles. So what is this technological breakthrough that will allow for 10X better tunneling? (OMFG, even writing that just feels silly.) 

Crickets. Crickets. Crickets.

Of course you won't answer, instead posting a link that doesn't answer my question either. I guess I can't blame you since there is no answer.

big time oops

oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3521
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 431
  • Likes Given: 931
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #323 on: May 22, 2019, 11:30:00 AM »
Have you ever tried to google the answer or do you just rely on negative sources?

Quote
...the innovations The Boring Company says it’s bringing are to the business of tunneling itself: having the tunnel-boring machines run electric instead of on diesel fuel; tripling the tunnel-boring machine’s power; automating the machine so it doesn’t rely on human operators; and allowing it to operate continuously.
Diesel locomotives require ventilation underground while electric locomotives don't.
Plus, the idea that a transport tunnel can be 14 feet in diameter instead of the standard 28 feet.

The big question they have not solved yet IMHO is how to use such tunnels effectively for mass transport.
GSY, as you keep asking the same rhetorical question, I will requote the answer.

TBC could certainly turn out to be a big flop, but it doesn't mean they have done nothing at all. Keep your objectivity.

Archimid

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1841
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 118
  • Likes Given: 123
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #324 on: May 22, 2019, 12:03:35 PM »
Quote
Giggles. So what is this technological breakthrough that will allow for 10X better tunneling?

If we knew this we wouldn't need the Boring company. There is likely a maximum theoretical digging speed. It is highly likely that no boring machine is there. Elon Musk is attempting to improve digging speed by digging holes and iterating the design. The more they iterate the higher chance to find breakthroughs and efficiency gains.

No magic involved. Only hard work and determination.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #325 on: May 23, 2019, 09:31:19 AM »
Have you ever tried to google the answer or do you just rely on negative sources?

Quote
...the innovations The Boring Company says it’s bringing are to the business of tunneling itself: having the tunnel-boring machines run electric instead of on diesel fuel; tripling the tunnel-boring machine’s power; automating the machine so it doesn’t rely on human operators; and allowing it to operate continuously.
Diesel locomotives require ventilation underground while electric locomotives don't.
Plus, the idea that a transport tunnel can be 14 feet in diameter instead of the standard 28 feet.

The big question they have not solved yet IMHO is how to use such tunnels effectively for mass transport.
GSY, as you keep asking the same rhetorical question, I will requote the answer.

TBC could certainly turn out to be a big flop, but it doesn't mean they have done nothing at all. Keep your objectivity.

Running someone elses boring machine off of electricity does nothing to improve tunneling time or cost. Boring a smaller diameter tunnel is not an innovation. 

The "big question" of tunnels for mass transport HAS BEEN SOLVED!!! It is called a subway. It doesn't work in a small diameter tunnel. DUH.


I'll explain with a real world example:

I sell many types of hoses (and other things) for work. Today I sold four 1.5 inch hoses to a company. Those are relatively large diameter hoses, which only go to customers who need really high flow rates for an application. If I had told the customer that I innovated a new solution for them called a 3/4 inch hose, and that it was WAY cheaper...they would ask me if I was joking. The flow rate is a tiny fraction in a hose half the diameter. Same thing with tunnels and people. Cutting the diameter in half, and then saying, "Well shucks, now we just need to figure out how to make it handle the flow of a 1.5 inch hose," IS ABSURD AND CHILDISH.
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #326 on: May 23, 2019, 09:35:34 AM »
Quote
Giggles. So what is this technological breakthrough that will allow for 10X better tunneling?

If we knew this we wouldn't need the Boring company. There is likely a maximum theoretical digging speed. It is highly likely that no boring machine is there. Elon Musk is attempting to improve digging speed by digging holes and iterating the design. The more they iterate the higher chance to find breakthroughs and efficiency gains.

No magic involved. Only hard work and determination.

So you admit it: no innovation or technological breakthrough, just the hope that by "iterating the design" they will somehow end up with a 10X better product. WOW. JUST WOW.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #327 on: May 23, 2019, 02:27:36 PM »
Writing insults is plainly much easier than revising your reflexively negative views. 

There is no question that all-electric Tesla torque beats comparable ICE engines.

————-
The Boring Company is also working in developing a next-generation tunnel boring machine that is all-electric, making it faster, quieter, and cleaner than conventional TBMs. These innovations are expected to be utilized in the company’s upcoming projects.

——
Beyond Line-Storm, the tunneling startup is also working on Prufrock, a TBM designed from the ground up by The Boring Company. Being fully electric, Prufrock is expected to be capable of digging 10-15x faster than current TBMs, with zero emissions and with very little noise.

——
The extraction of Godot, the tunneling startup’s first TBM, was shared by the company on its official Twitter account. Godot is a conventional TBM, and during the company’s information session earlier this year, Elon Musk noted that the machine would be succeeded by Line-Storm, which is “essentially a hybrid between a conventional boring machine and Proof-Rock, a fully Boring Company-designed machine.” Being electric-powered, Proof-rock is expected have 3x more power and operate 10-15x times faster than Godot, with zero emissions and with very little noise.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 02:41:20 PM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

crandles

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2192
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 34
  • Likes Given: 32
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #328 on: May 23, 2019, 03:22:43 PM »
I did wonder if the 10*faster was:

half the diameter so 4* less material to remove,
working near 100% of time instead of 50% stopped to fit tunnel panels
which leaves only 25% faster rate of material removal to get to 10* the speed.

Even so, 25% faster down a smaller tunnel likely requires some innovation.


Is it likely there has effectively been a tunnel building cartel that overcharges and doesn't bother trying to innovate to do it more cheaply? Small number of companies with quite high barriers to entry so I don't think it sounds completely implausible.


oren

  • ASIF Governor
  • Posts: 3521
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 431
  • Likes Given: 931
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #329 on: May 23, 2019, 04:48:25 PM »
I am sure some of the improvement has to do with electrification of the machine itself and of the whole operation. But I have not dug into the details too much. (Pun intended...)
The proof as usual will be in the pudding, in this case the pudding is the LVCC transit system.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #330 on: May 23, 2019, 05:20:50 PM »
I did wonder if the 10*faster was:

half the diameter so 4* less material to remove,
working near 100% of time instead of 50% stopped to fit tunnel panels
which leaves only 25% faster rate of material removal to get to 10* the speed.

Even so, 25% faster down a smaller tunnel likely requires some innovation.


Is it likely there has effectively been a tunnel building cartel that overcharges and doesn't bother trying to innovate to do it more cheaply? Small number of companies with quite high barriers to entry so I don't think it sounds completely implausible.

^^^ This.

Musk has shown he’s not the type to do things the way they’ve always been done. ;)

Also, electric motors are longer-lasting and have fewer parts to wear out, so downtime for maintenance will be less.  And considering that behemoth digging machines are often left in the ground onsite at the end of the project, being able to (quickly!) extract the Boring Company’s smaller TBM is another major cost-saver:
Quote
Based on the photographs we acquired, dozens of employees and/or contractors were present during the TBM extraction. The removal and transportation of the TBM segments from the Prairie Ave. pit appear to have been completed in ~24 hours from start to finish as well, as other members of the Teslarati team who visited the area not long after the photos were taken noted that the boring machine segments have already been transported elsewhere when they arrived.


Quote
As Musk explains, humans can walk at about three miles per hour. A tunnel boring machine, on the other hand, digs at the rate of about 0.003 miles per hour -- 1,000 times slower. Musk's objective with The Boring Company, therefore, is to accelerate the speed of tunnel-building by a factor of 10, to 0.03 miles per hour, or about the "speed" of a crawling snail. Such an improvement would cut the time to completion of a tunneling project by 50% to 66%, presumably with commensurate improvements in cost.
https://www.nasdaq.com/article/everything-you-need-to-know-about-elon-musks-not-so-boring-company-cm979283
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #331 on: May 23, 2019, 05:24:04 PM »
Is it likely there has effectively been a tunnel building cartel...

Ya, that's it. The evil tunneling cartel.

Herrenknecht, Komatsu, Mitsubishi, Tianye Tolian, Hitachi Zosen, Xugong Kaigong, STEC, JIMT,NHI, Kawasaki, IHI, Terratec, CRTG, CRCHI, Tianhe, LNSS executives fly in from China, Japan, Europe, and North American and meet in a smoke filled room to conspire against the tunnel loving public.

Or Musk in a brazen liar and can't just magically 10X improve a refined technology just because he is sitting in traffic one day and in the most pathetic and whiny voice possible says, "Traffic is soul sucking! Poor me."

Which do you think is more likely?
big time oops

Tor Bejnar

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2480
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 193
  • Likes Given: 74
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #332 on: May 23, 2019, 05:25:55 PM »
All of Crandles' points parallel my thinking. 

Drilling two 14' (okay, 4.25 m) diameter tunnels (half the volume of a single 28 footer [woops, 8.5 m]) simultaneously, with no increase in digging speed (based on material removed per minute per machine), will go four (4) times as fast (for the same 'two lanes of traffic').  With smaller "reusable" machines, they can work from both ends (economically): 8x faster (or from multiple midpoints, factor of 2 for each additional pair of start points).   Maybe the smaller machines will not be able to dig the same volume/minute, so the 8x is somewhat exaggerated, but still there is the "working near 100% of time instead of 50%" and the additional starting points.  15x looks pretty attainable.

Two 4.25 m tunnels will carry about the same 'volume' of traffic as a single 8.5 meter one.  With 'electric only' vehicles (and one-way flow of traffic) the volume of air needed to support human life decreases.  Using the middle 2 meters (vertical) of a tunnel for vehicles, leaves 1.25 m below (and above) for utilities and structure.  Is the upper arch needed for utilities?  Is 1.25 m adequate for utilities, etc.?

Just musing...
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #333 on: May 23, 2019, 05:52:09 PM »
The Boring Company’s FAQ has more info to muse upon:
https://www.boringcompany.com/faq

Here’s a 1-minute video of a Model X entering, traversing, and leaving, the prototype tunnel in Hawthorne.  Plenty of space left for a larger vehicle.  Musk stated years ago that a tram-like design based on the Model X base could have a surprisingly large amount of room.



The TBC website offers this drawing of a cross-section of a tunnel.  The metal grid in the floor provides space for utilities as well as for any necessary foot traffic.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

magnamentis

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2099
    • View Profile
    • Philosophy Ethics Numerology Mikrocirkulation Vaskular Therapie Gesundheit Blut Gesundheit Schmerzen Multiple Sklerose Diabetes Immunsystem Fibromyalgia Modular Mobile Computing iOS Software OSX Android Custom Rom Rooted
  • Liked: 95
  • Likes Given: 109
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #334 on: May 23, 2019, 06:03:25 PM »
The Boring Company’s FAQ has more info to muse upon:
https://www.boringcompany.com/faq

Here’s a 1-minute video of a Model X entering, traversing, and leaving, the prototype tunnel in Hawthorne.  Plenty of space left for a larger vehicle.  Musk stated years ago that a tram-like design based on the Model X base could have a surprisingly large amount of room.



The TBC website offers this drawing of a cross-section of a tunnel.  The metal grid in the floor provides space for utilities as well as for any necessary foot traffic.

seriously, this will never prevail

referring to your signature, of course it can be done, like i can jump from a cliff, bridge or tower, it can be done but the question will be whether it can be done successfully, meeting the goals without a too high prize tag.

this won't happen this way, why not concentrate on feasible AS WELL AS useful tasks at hand
why jump form one hyped illusion an science fiction like idea to the next. if we continue
dreaming about getting rid of vehicles by star-trek-like "BEAMING" transportation we won't live to see any significant progress ;)
http://magnamentis.com
Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #335 on: May 23, 2019, 06:53:52 PM »

seriously, this will never prevail
...

Since it has been done (Hawthorne), and has been contracted for more (Las Vegas), and has others under study (Los Angeles, Chicago, Baltimore to Washington), your opinion has no basis in fact. 

A serious, 500-page, governmental study right here:
https://www.dcbaltimoreloop.com/DraftLoopEA.pdf
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 07:02:58 PM by Sigmetnow »
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Royalty
  • *****
  • Posts: 6608
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 352
  • Likes Given: 241
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #336 on: May 23, 2019, 09:34:23 PM »
Thanks for depressing me with that video.  :(
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #337 on: May 23, 2019, 09:54:05 PM »
Thanks for depressing me with that video.  :(

Sorry.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

magnamentis

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2099
    • View Profile
    • Philosophy Ethics Numerology Mikrocirkulation Vaskular Therapie Gesundheit Blut Gesundheit Schmerzen Multiple Sklerose Diabetes Immunsystem Fibromyalgia Modular Mobile Computing iOS Software OSX Android Custom Rom Rooted
  • Liked: 95
  • Likes Given: 109
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #338 on: May 24, 2019, 12:07:48 AM »

seriously, this will never prevail
...

Since it has been done (Hawthorne), and has been contracted for more (Las Vegas), and has others under study (Los Angeles, Chicago, Baltimore to Washington), your opinion has no basis in fact. 

A serious, 500-page, governmental study right here:
https://www.dcbaltimoreloop.com/DraftLoopEA.pdf

i said prevail, means ready and implemented as major transportation facilities and that people will use it and it won't produce disasters and losses over decades.

this has not been done, i can do a prototype of many things that will never be used or seen thereafter. i've done that myself with this:

watch the videos if you find them, those things were flying and still aerodynamics took another path

http://turbo-wing-development.org.magnamentis.com/Memberarea/23300-a-cessna-337.html

http://turbo-wing-development.org.magnamentis.com/Memberarea/24000-w-craftconcept.html

http://turbo-wing-development.org.magnamentis.com/Memberarea/27000-downloads.html

perhaps neven likes the video, it can be downloaded ;)

they are old of course, i was working on that project decades ago but other than many i
tried to do real stuff to safe fuel.

it was done as you can see but did not prevail, simple as that. if you read the webpage you ca see that huge fuel savings, payload increase and noise pollution near airports due to angle of climb, short take of and landing etc. was achieved and still the aircraft industrie preferred to use their "paid for / paid-off) technology over having to pay for the patent of this. only lockheed once tried to purchase the patent to let it disappear in a drawer to avoid competition. long story TLTR here.

right now i'm working on a food project that will safe huge amounts of electricity in storage and help reduce the number of life-cattle world wide significantly. one prototype production plant is funtioning, i'll open a thread once a full scale production facitlity wlll be operational.



« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 12:36:49 AM by magnamentis »
http://magnamentis.com
Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #339 on: May 24, 2019, 02:02:27 AM »
Why not make tunneling 1,000,000X better?!? Dig 0.5 meter holes and send individuals through pneumatic tubes. Wait til Baltimore sees this! They will probably want to do a 5,000 page study proving it will prevail.
big time oops

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #340 on: May 24, 2019, 02:05:33 AM »
Does anyone know any of Prufrock's innovative brilliance that is going to upend the tunneling industry? Nope. Just some more Musk Vaporware.
big time oops

Sigmetnow

  • ASIF Emperor
  • Posts: 14138
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 199
  • Likes Given: 124
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #341 on: May 24, 2019, 11:58:59 AM »
Split-screen video: Los Angeles street traffic vs. zipping through the tunnel in a Model X.
Which air would you rather breathe?

Quote
Elon Musk (@elonmusk)5/24/19, 2:35 AM
Racing at 127mph in a tunnel under LA
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1131810953933123584
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Archimid

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1841
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 118
  • Likes Given: 123
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #342 on: May 24, 2019, 12:13:31 PM »
So you admit it: no innovation or technological breakthrough, just the hope that by "iterating the design" they will somehow end up with a 10X better product. WOW. JUST WOW.

As simple as that.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #343 on: May 24, 2019, 05:23:08 PM »
So you admit it: no innovation or technological breakthrough, just the hope that by "iterating the design" they will somehow end up with a 10X better product. WOW. JUST WOW.

As simple as that.

Real world mechanical stuff works in basically the opposite way. Over time, each iteration sees a smaller and smaller improvement. Only when science provides extremely new understanding, materials, or processes does the mechanism's design improve significantly.

Commercial airplanes for example improved an enormous amount in their first 50 years. In the last 50 years there has been hardly any improvement. There are just some physical resistances  which take too much compromise to break through. Once the basic design balance gets figured out, there isn't much left to make better.

An even better example is firearms. They really have hit their practical limits long ago. The most well liked handgun was invented over a hundred years ago. New designs come out all the time but most people agree the Browning nailed it with the 1911. Same with bigger guns too: The Browning M2 is the best heavy machine gun ever made and it has been for a hundred years. There are been slight improvements in some recent iterations. The back plate has change a bit, and recently the barrels don't have to be head-spaced and timed. These are not 10X better but 1.1X improvements.

Tunneling has been figured out. There are slightly different designs for different mediums and sizes etc. Any of the dozens of tunneling companies would be thrilled to come up with 1.1X improvement. Musk just being impatient doesn't change the physical realities.
big time oops

Archimid

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1841
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 118
  • Likes Given: 123
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #344 on: May 24, 2019, 10:28:48 PM »
Quote
Real world mechanical stuff works in basically the opposite way. Over time, each iteration sees a smaller and smaller improvement. Only when science provides extremely new understanding, materials, or processes does the mechanism's design improve significantly.

Like for example, how electric vehicles are revolutionizing the car industry by providing more miles per energy spent and quicker vehicles or how self landing rockets is revolutionizing the space launch industry by decreasing cost.


And to be clear, they are not increasing tunneling speed 10x. They are making tunneling 10x cheaper. Big difference.
I am an energy reservoir seemingly intent on lowering entropy for self preservation.

crandles

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2192
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 34
  • Likes Given: 32
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #345 on: May 25, 2019, 05:40:56 PM »
No sled or tracking wheels, max speed 127mph

2 min "race" video.

https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1131809805876654080

Asked "Just on autopilot?"
Elon replies "pretty much" (take that as you see fit)

GoSouthYoungins

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 823
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #346 on: May 25, 2019, 05:47:32 PM »
Like for example, how electric vehicles are revolutionizing the car industry by providing more miles per energy spent and quicker vehicles or how self landing rockets is revolutionizing the space launch industry by decreasing cost.

Those things haven't actually happened yet. I understand that you think they are going to, but they haven't yet. It is important to see the difference.

Electric vehicles have been around for a long time. The range is limited due to energy density and so to make a car that people want to drive is very expensive. Musk addressed this by making his brand a status symbol so people would be will to pay for the expensive design. But their aren't enough people willing to pay enough for the status symbol, so the luxury brand is always losing money and thus will be short lived. That isn't revolutionary.

Landing rockets have been around for half a century. There are some big advantages to reusable rockets, but there are some big downsides too. For the ups to outweigh the downs, the rocket has to be able to be reused many times. SpaceX thinks this number is 10. And they talk about doing that. But they haven't yet. Not even close.
big time oops

interstitial

  • ASIF Lurker
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 13
  • Likes Given: 42
Re: The Boring Company
« Reply #347 on: Today at 01:50:25 AM »
Like for example, how electric vehicles are revolutionizing the car industry by providing more miles per energy spent and quicker vehicles or how self landing rockets is revolutionizing the space launch industry by decreasing cost.

Those things haven't actually happened yet. I understand that you think they are going to, but they haven't yet. It is important to see the difference.

Electric vehicles have been around for a long time. The range is limited due to energy density and so to make a car that people want to drive is very expensive. Musk addressed this by making his brand a status symbol so people would be will to pay for the expensive design. But their aren't enough people willing to pay enough for the status symbol, so the luxury brand is always losing money and thus will be short lived. That isn't revolutionary.

Landing rockets have been around for half a century. There are some big advantages to reusable rockets, but there are some big downsides too. For the ups to outweigh the downs, the rocket has to be able to be reused many times. SpaceX thinks this number is 10. And they talk about doing that. But they haven't yet. Not even close.


mpge is miles per gallon equivalent. The equivalent part is energy meaning the same amount of energy as a gallon of gas. Most mpge equivalent numbers are north of 100 meaning more miles per energy spent compared to gas. Though to be fair electric motors were more energy efficient long before Tesla came on the scene.