Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Economic Inequality  (Read 53466 times)

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7577
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 925
  • Likes Given: 501
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #600 on: April 29, 2020, 11:18:51 AM »
OK, so let's go into the meme. Is the fat, deplorable Trump voter the cause of economic inequality? And if so, should they be shot?
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3775
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1326
  • Likes Given: 2126
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #601 on: April 29, 2020, 12:14:33 PM »
Is the fat, deplorable Trump voter the cause of economic inequality?

Well, if you support and embrace a system where billionaires can exist, if you think there is nothing wrong with monopolies, if you accept the structural racism, you don't help to lower the economic inequality, right? Someone with a MAGA hat is very very likely such a person. The ideology is the root cause. For an ideology to function it needs supporters.

So no, he is not the cause but he's helping the cause.

Quote
And if so, should they be shot?

There was a time where traitors would be shot. These are different times now. So no, they obviously shouldn't be shot.
Unlearn things daily.

johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1380
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 147
  • Likes Given: 58
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #602 on: April 29, 2020, 12:28:45 PM »
Here's a meme to digest,
PROGRAMMED US ENSLAVEMENT IN THE LATE 1910’s
In a private meeting with Woodrow Wilson (US President 1913 – 1921), Colonel Edward Mandell House predicted the banksters’ plans to enslave the American people. He stated:

“Very soon, every American will be required to register their biological property in a national system
designed to keep track of the people and that will operate under the ancient system of pledging.
By such methodology, we can compel people to submit to our agenda, which will affect our security
as a charge back for our fiat paper currency.

Every American will be forced to register or suffer being able to work and earn a living.
They will be our chattels (property) and we will hold the security interest over them forever, by operation of the law merchant under the scheme of secured transactions. Americans, by unknowingly or unwittingly delivering the bills of lading (Birth Certificate) to us will be rendered bankrupt and insolvent, secured by their pledges.

They will be stripped of their rights and given a commercial value designed to make us a profit and
they will be none the wiser, for not one man in a million could ever figure our plans and, if by accident one or two should figure it out, we have in our arsenal plausible deniability.
After all, this is the only logical way to fund government, by floating liens and debts to the registrants in the form of benefits and privileges.

This will inevitably reap us huge profits beyond our wildest expectations and leave every American a
contributor to this fraud, which we will call “Social Insurance.” Without realizing it, every American will unknowingly be our servant, however begrudgingly. The people will become helpless and without any
hope for their redemption and we will employ the high office of our dummy corporation [ USA] to foment
this plot against America.”

http://abundanthope.net/pages/True_US_History_108/Colonel_Edward_Mandell_House_
Predicts_the_Creation_3153.shtml
and for those who missed Smedley Butlers 'war is a racket' memo
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/04/max-blumenthal-and-ben-norton-with-michael-hudson-how-the-us-makes-countries-pay-for-its-wars-economics-of-american-imperialism.html

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2845
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 131
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #603 on: April 29, 2020, 03:13:32 PM »
nanning:
But scientists and ASIF members are not the majority of voters.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5435
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 666
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #604 on: May 09, 2020, 01:56:10 AM »
Gollan on elder care: Milk the old. Screw the workers. Ripoff the taxpayer.

"My net worth is $3 to $4 million"

"she and her company initially were cited for about $1.6 million for labor violations, including wage theft - not paying 11 employees for working much of 24 hours a day, six days a week."

"profit margins can be huge and, for violators of labor laws, hinge on the widespread exploitation of thousands of caretakers, many of them poor immigrants effectively earning $2 to $3.50 an hour to work around the clock"

"Workers describe sleeping in hallways and garages, on couches and the floor. Some care homes deduct $25 a day from caregivers’ paychecks for “lodging.” "

"charged last year with human trafficking and labor abuse "

" care-home operators across the nation broke minimum wage, overtime or record-keeping laws in at least 1,400 cases"

"the state labor commissioner’s office ordered Costa and her company, Bedford Care Group, to pay about $1.6 million for unpaid wages and penalties ...Papers were then filed with the state to create two new residential care-home companies ...  These new companies then received licenses from the state to run the six former Bedford care homes ... Costa’s Bedford Care Group filed for bankruptcy ...allowed her to effectively slash the amount she owed workers by settling the case for about $200,000 ...  her father registered a new company with the state ... took over as the new owner of Costa’s six care homes. "

"abandon their company names - and the judgments against those named entities - rendering the penalties and wage theft judgments meaningless."

"
 20 companies providing care for the elderly, disabled and mentally ill in California continue to operate illegally - many of them under their original names - after ignoring judgments for back wages and penalties totaling more than $1.4 million"

"California Social Services Department banned Costa from the assisted living business for life after finding multiple health and safety violations ... Costa ignored the ban"

“Are there problems? There are lots of problems ... Elderly people aren’t able to pay what they’d need to pay for these homes to be compliant.”

"The Publicos wrote Deza two checks totaling more than $17,700 in back wages. But instead of letting her deposit the checks, Rommel Publico demanded the money back, claiming it was his ... she was frightened he would fire her if she refused ...  “I gave him the cash,” said Deza, 66. “Oh my goodness, that’s my money. I worked so hard for it. I really needed that money. It’s big money for me.” "

"She worked around the clock as a caregiver in one of their care homes for nearly a decade, earning about $2 an hour. Rarely allowed a day off, she kept working, afraid she would be fired if she complained ... I needed that money for my medications and food, but he got away with murder by not having to pay. I’m angry, but what can we do?"

"kept timesheets that showed caregivers worked eight hours a day, even though their employment manual required them to be available 24 hours per day, seven days a week ... bribes to falsify timesheets and required them to sign agreements not to sue her"

" four members of a family were charged with various felonies, including human trafficking and labor abuse ...  forced some to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and some caregivers had their passports withheld ... slept on mattresses on the floor and in garages and were prohibited from leaving ... were told to lie to emergency room doctors about how they were maimed. They also were forced to pay their medical bills ... one of the facilities’ owners, collected a fleet of cars, including a Lamborghini and a Ferrari, also is charged with raping a caregiver.  "

“It’s extreme greed by the owners. The workers are treated horribly.”

https://apnews.com/8e852a9b2fd9459e9e7ca2412c7bcf47

sidd





sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5435
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 666
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #605 on: May 09, 2020, 02:17:30 AM »
Chaudhary at the baffler: Who is "we" ?

"In this story, there is no universal “we.” Climate change is not the apocalypse, and it does not fall on all equally, or even, in at least a few senses, on everyone at all."

" Right-wing climate realism then, in its simplest form, is a political-ecological scenario of the concentration, preservation, and enhancement of existing political and economic power."

"A world we can already see coming into its own in Fortress Europe or at the U.S. border and in increasingly direct and punitive post-democratic governance in places like Puerto Rico, Greece, or Flint. We can observe interstitial border states, like Turkey and Mexico, adopting the control of migrants as an emerging geopolitical lever, but for a permanent “tier” below, providing a key service for the preservation of power in a world already experiencing migration on a scale not seen since the Second World War "

"The Rex Tillersons of the world have taken a look at the same data, the same trends, the same underlying social and political conditions, and they have noticed that in the probable world in which nothing changes for them, business-as-usual, they end up on the “winning” side of a sharp global and local dividing line. Every structural incentive serves to reinforce such thinking. The best outcome in such a position is to push on with business-as-usual; the costs of climate change will largely be borne by those who already bear the cost today. Indeed, as I will argue, that other people will be bearing those costs helps keep the system going as long as possible and makes the Rex Position of maximal extraction for maximal maintenance, or cashing out, that much better. Even modestly successful climate mitigation and adaptation for the vast majority of people would require socioeconomic and political changes that would pose a steep loss to the Rex Position."

"Right-wing climate realism can seek to embrace the shell game but just choose the shells—to help, no matter what the cost, maintain capitalism in the twenty-first century."

" Through an ecological lens, what Thomas Piketty describes as “patrimonial capitalism” becomes a horrifyingly distorted mirror-image of the steady-state or circular economies often posited as goals in ecological literature. Wealth is held, maintained, and recirculated back to itself in close kinship networks. This is, of course, already a characteristic of the world as it is."

"Neofeudalism is also a steady-state economy—one in which growth is essentially nil or close to it—but characterized not by some harmonious socially sustaining socioeconomic life ... a handful of distinct—if almost certainly overlapping—surplus populations: First, a massive number of socioeconomically expendable people (no longer needed for the basic stable reproduction of the sated and well-off) who face direct, permanent ecological adversity ... second, an over-large body—also facing severe economic and ecological constriction—of what one might term “neoserfs”: people who work in basic production and extraction, maintenance, and non-essential service functions. In between these groups and a ruling class would be a third mass: loyal retainers, if you will. Those who perform high level services, especially governance and security."

"Approximately 25 percent of the American workforce is already employed protecting wealth and surveilling other workers. This is a trend one can see in other countries; it tracks inequality. "

" “if climate change is allowed to destroy whole economies and nations, no amount of walls, guns, barbed wire, armed aerial drones, or permanently deployed mercenaries will be able to save one half of the planet from the other.” But this is highly uncertain, not particularly likely, and certainly not automatic."

" left-wing climate realism is the politics of a world relieved from social, economic, and ecological despair and exhaustion ... This is absolutely possible in the same way, right-wing climate realism is hardly “bound to fail.” "

"Existing inequalities and inequities increase exposure to climate impacts, even while, through exploitation, extraction, and enclosure, they are simultaneously drivers of further inequality and ecological stress ... But, at the very least, as climate change continues to intensify, the geographical maps of the global caste system will continue to be redrawn."

" There is no universal “we” whose present benefits are being maximized. Profits, rather, are maximized for the few at extraordinary socioeconomic and ecological costs to the vast majority. Climate change does not negatively affect only prospective “future” generations but is already exacting costs from most people currently alive while benefiting a rather smaller number immensely."

" diverging “climates,” diverging interests, and even diverging times ... it is the case that for billions of people and even majorities in Global North countries that they have strong interests in immediate and radical transformation ... At the same time there are those who have no rush at all. This is not about people’s moral character per se but actually just a straightforward comparison of structural interests. Nordhaus is, in a weird way, right; it’s not worth the trillions of dollars of losses or the trillions of dollars of costs to mitigate so quickly. It’s that he’s only right for one of those images, for one small set of people with inordinately large amounts of power ... two diametrically opposed worlds, where even ecology does not unite all people. Simply put, we’re not all in this together."

https://thebaffler.com/salvos/were-not-in-this-together-chaudhary

sidd

The Walrus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #606 on: May 09, 2020, 05:19:50 PM »
I am not sure that you accurate portray either left- or right-wing climate realism (or for that matter climate realism at all). 

In its simplest form, climate realism requires extensive data as well as an examination of the data model and the mechanisms claimed to be the cause of climate change.  The changes to date are accepted on both the left and right.  The major differences are in the forecasted changes

On the right, it is not about maintaining the current power (although there may be some in that realm who will cling to this philosophy to maintain their control).  Rather, the lack of extensive data and consensus among the models leads to diminished claims of economic and climatic hardships. 

On the left, it is more about green technology not be able to supply the necessary energy to maintain the current status, let alone the cost.  Claims about achieving 100% green energy within a decade appear infeasible. 

In theory, if both these claims are correct, then moving forward with more palatable and affordable efforts towards green energy would be the best alternative.  Granted, this approach would satisfy neither those on the far left or right, but would satisfy the climate realists in the middle. 

johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1380
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 147
  • Likes Given: 58
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #607 on: May 09, 2020, 10:19:47 PM »
"Neofeudalism is also a steady-state economy—one in which growth is essentially nil or close to it—but characterized not by some harmonious socially sustaining socioeconomic life ... a handful of distinct—if almost certainly overlapping—surplus populations: First, a massive number of socioeconomically expendable people (no longer needed for the basic stable reproduction of the sated and well-off) who face direct, permanent ecological adversity ... second, an over-large body—also facing severe economic and ecological constriction—of what one might term “neoserfs”: people who work in basic production and extraction, maintenance, and non-essential service functions. In between these groups and a ruling class would be a third mass: loyal retainers, if you will. Those who perform high level services, especially governance and security."
A great fear I do have is that we shall slip unaware into the same amoral society that the social insects have gamed themselves into and it will be the end of all hope for what may have been an enlightened future. The above describes it to perfection.

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5435
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 666
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #608 on: May 09, 2020, 11:12:48 PM »
Re: " you accurate portray either left- or right-wing climate realism"

The article was written by Chaudhary at the Baffler, not by me.

Chaudhary is not the only one, Klein has similar exposition on disaster capitalism and the shock doctrine.

As to my opinion, I think that the men (mostly men) behind the fossil lobbies understand very well the implicatons of climate change. They intend to delay mitigation as long as they can, to extract and sell every last gram  of fossil fuels they possibly can, until climate disaster cannot be hidden anymore, and their industries are forced to close. Every second of delay is precious to them.

Chaudhary: "This is not about people’s moral character per se but actually just a straightforward comparison of structural interests. Nordhaus is, in a weird way, right; it’s not worth the trillions of dollars of losses or the trillions of dollars of costs to mitigate so quickly. It’s that he’s only right for one of those images, for one small set of people with inordinately large amounts of power"

Others may differ in their conclusions.

On this forum most are western residents of developed economies who will suffer much less than those forsaken souls, say, in Bangladesh. Disruptions to our lives will be minor compared to the destruction coming for the poorer parts of the world, _who already bear the brunt of presnt climate costs_

As with COVID-19, we see many calls for reopening the economy come from a bunch of sheltered white collar intelligentsia who imagine they can isolate and work from home in "safety"  demanding that the blue collars get back to work and expose themselves to infection. A similar logic indeed, to calling for continued use of fossil fuels by the rich since the impact is (so far) borne by the poor.

sidd

The Walrus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #609 on: May 10, 2020, 12:30:00 AM »
Sorry, I will take issue with Chandhary instead.  Those in the fossil fuel industry may or may not be climate realists.  Their financial interests are what drives them.  I agree that it is not worth the trillions of dollars to mitigate so quickly.  I disagree that the poorer parts of the world will bear the brunt of climate change.  The warming is least, possibly non-existent, in the equatorial countries, which are the poorest.  Their economies are least reliant on fossil fuels.  How can they possibly be destroyed by climate change, while the western world is just mildly inconvenienced?

kassy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1763
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 999
  • Likes Given: 682
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #610 on: May 10, 2020, 12:45:45 AM »
What a bunch of BS claims.

The warming is not non-existent in equatorial countries as it actually exists on a global scale. I will let you work out the rest from there.

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

The Walrus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #611 on: May 10, 2020, 02:03:57 AM »
What a bunch of BS claims.

The warming is not non-existent in equatorial countries as it actually exists on a global scale. I will let you work out the rest from there.

I have worked it out.  Global temperatures have risen 1.1C since 1880.  Europe has experienced a temperature rise of 1.3C.  The U.S. has risen 1.6C.  Asia is about 1.5C.  Arctic regions have experienced temperature increases of 3-4C.  I will leave it to you to figure out which regions have been affected to a lesser degree in order to average out to 1.1C. 

Just in case you need more help:

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-global-warming-varies-greatly-depending-where-you-live

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2009GL037698

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5435
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 666
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #612 on: May 10, 2020, 08:19:48 AM »
Re: disagree that the poorer parts of the world will bear the brunt of climate change

Mmmm. What is proposed SLR protection budget for Dacca as opposed to NY ?

Here is a projection for population exposed to coastal SLR

doi: 10.1038/s41467-019-12808-z

I attach fig 2-a.

There are other projections for impact from increased storms, crop yield, disease, and temperature/humidity and the like. All spell the same. The poor of all nations will die quicker from climate change. The poor of the poorer nations will die quickest.

sidd


The Walrus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #613 on: May 10, 2020, 02:45:18 PM »
I guess we are just going to have to disagree on that.  The temperature effects have been and are expected to be least in the poorer regions (i.e. tropics).  This will have much less effect on storms, disease, etc.  Perhaps if you wish to argue that the poorer nations crop production has not benefitted in the same way as the midlatitudes, then I will agree with you.  But other than, I see no preferential dying among the poorer nations.

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 2845
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 535
  • Likes Given: 131
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #614 on: May 10, 2020, 04:39:09 PM »
The Global Poor live closer to the edge, so a slight warming may have a disproportionate effect on them, compared to a large warming where the Global Rich live.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

The Walrus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #615 on: May 10, 2020, 05:06:52 PM »
The Global Poor live closer to the edge, so a slight warming may have a disproportionate effect on them, compared to a large warming where the Global Rich live.

That is a better argument that saying they will bear the brunt of the burden.  The burden does not fall disproportionately upon them, but what does occur will have a greater impact.  That is true of just about everything.

kassy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1763
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 999
  • Likes Given: 682
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #616 on: May 10, 2020, 07:07:11 PM »
I agree that it is not worth the trillions of dollars to mitigate so quickly.

Are they your dollars? What do you think the dollars will do in the end?

I don´t get that attitude.

Global temperatures have risen 1.1C since 1880.  Europe has experienced a temperature rise of 1.3C.  The U.S. has risen 1.6C.  Asia is about 1.5C.  Arctic regions have experienced temperature increases of 3-4C.  I will leave it to you to figure out which regions have been affected to a lesser degree in order to average out to 1.1C.

The oceans?

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5435
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 666
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #617 on: May 11, 2020, 12:18:00 AM »
Attached is fig2 and supplementary fig5 from Coffel(2018 doi: 10.1088/1748-9326/aaa00e ) showing impact of T and wet bulb T. T impacts are greatest in the poorer nations.

sidd

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5435
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 666
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #618 on: May 11, 2020, 12:34:04 AM »
 a later paper : Raymond (2020 doi: 10.1126/sciadv.aaw1838 ) on already occurring wet bulb temperatures:

"These conditions, nearing or beyond prolonged human physiological tolerance, have mostly occurred only for 1- to 2-hours’ duration (fig. S2). They are concentrated in South Asia, the coastal Middle East, and coastal southwest North America"

"The southern Persian Gulf shoreline and northern South Asia are home to millions of people, situating them on the front lines of exposure to TW extremes at the edge of and outside the range of natural variability in which our physiology evolved"

sidd

The Walrus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #619 on: May 11, 2020, 03:02:52 PM »
Unfortunately, Coffel makes the assumption that temperatures will rise uniformly throughout space and time.  The data as already shown that not to be so.  A few examples:

"For instance, the warming in higher latitudes of the Northern hemisphere is considerable higher than in the tropics."

"Only few countries located in tropical areas do not show a clear trend of year temperatures. The trend is more important in countries located in higher latitudes. It means that although the warming can be noted everywhere, there are countries where its effects are stronger."

http://berkeleyearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/AnnualMap2017.png

"From 1980 onwards, a strong warming emerges that is almost global in nature with very strong trends. Exceptions are the off-equatorial and tropical regions of the central and eastern Pacific associated with the transition to a negative Interdecadal Pacific Oscillation phase."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234081404_African_Climate_Change_1900-2100

"While warming is seen to dominate the continent, some coherent areas of cooling are noted, around Nigeria/Cameroon in West Africa and along the coastal margins of Senegal/Mauritania and South Africa.

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab4557/pdf

Coffel makes a prediction based on his opinion.  It should come as no surprise that the equatorial regions are hotter than more poleward areas.  That is basically the gist of his paper.  There is nothing to support the contention that poorer countries will bear the brunt of climate change.

kassy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1763
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 999
  • Likes Given: 682
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #620 on: May 11, 2020, 05:50:01 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately, Coffel makes the assumption that temperatures will rise uniformly throughout space and time.  The data as already shown that not to be so.  A few examples:

"For instance, the warming in higher latitudes of the Northern hemisphere is considerable higher than in the tropics."

"Only few countries located in tropical areas do not show a clear trend of year temperatures. The trend is more important in countries located in higher latitudes. It means that although the warming can be noted everywhere, there are countries where its effects are stronger."

You are confusing the temperature spread around the globe and the web bulb temperatures.

The people on the equator are living closer to the edge so less change will push them over it.

Some of the regions most susceptible to dangerous heat and humidity combinations

Then again the cost is in lives and human suffering and not dollars (not ours) so maybe that is why you cannot seet it?
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

The Walrus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #621 on: May 11, 2020, 07:36:20 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately, Coffel makes the assumption that temperatures will rise uniformly throughout space and time.  The data as already shown that not to be so.  A few examples:

"For instance, the warming in higher latitudes of the Northern hemisphere is considerable higher than in the tropics."

"Only few countries located in tropical areas do not show a clear trend of year temperatures. The trend is more important in countries located in higher latitudes. It means that although the warming can be noted everywhere, there are countries where its effects are stronger."

You are confusing the temperature spread around the globe and the web bulb temperatures.

The people on the equator are living closer to the edge so less change will push them over it.

Some of the regions most susceptible to dangerous heat and humidity combinations

Then again the cost is in lives and human suffering and not dollars (not ours) so maybe that is why you cannot seet it?

I think you are using our definition of closer to the edge.  While we may not be able to handle the heat and humidity, they have lived all they lives there and are better acclimated to it.  That is why heat waves claim many more lives in the mid-latitudes than the tropics.  I can see quite clearly.

kassy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1763
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 999
  • Likes Given: 682
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #622 on: May 11, 2020, 10:12:59 PM »
Living organisms can survive only within a certain temperature range. When the ambient temperature is excessive, humans and many animals cool themselves below ambient by evaporative cooling (sweat in humans and horses, saliva and water in dogs and other mammals); this helps to prevent potentially fatal hyperthermia due to heat stress. The effectiveness of evaporative cooling depends upon humidity; wet-bulb temperature, or more complex calculated quantities such as Wet Bulb Globe Temperature (WBGT) which also takes account of solar radiation, give a useful indication of the degree of heat stress, and are used by several agencies as the basis for heat stress prevention guidelines.

A sustained wet-bulb temperature exceeding 35 °C (95 °F) is likely to be fatal even to fit and healthy people, unclothed in the shade next to a fan; at this temperature our bodies switch from shedding heat to the environment, to gaining heat from it.[8] Thus 35 °C (95 °F) is the threshold beyond which the body is no longer able to adequately cool itself. A study by NOAA from 2013 concluded that heat stress will reduce labor capacity considerably under current emissions scenarios.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature

Physical upper limits are not something you get acclimated better too.
You probably spend time around cars but you don´t get acclimated to car wrecks either. Ideally you prevent them.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

johnm33

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1380
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 147
  • Likes Given: 58
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #623 on: May 12, 2020, 12:12:12 AM »

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5435
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 666
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #624 on: May 12, 2020, 01:30:38 AM »
Re: "Coffel makes the assumption that temperatures will rise uniformly throughout space and time"

Please read the paper more carefully. Coffel uses reanalysis and CMIP5 results on a 2x2 degree grid.

"Future changes in monthly-mean daily maximum temperature and wet bulb temperature, relative to 1985–2005, are calculated at each grid cell for each GCM and emission scenario in each year between 2020 and 2080. These projected monthly changes are added to the historical daily maximum temperatures and wet bulb temperatures taken from the NCEP Reanalysis II for the period 1985–2005, generating a set of daily future projections which retain reanalysis- based historical daily variability and spatial patterns."

sidd

The Walrus

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 16
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #625 on: May 12, 2020, 03:25:08 PM »
sidd,

Yes, they assume that daily maximum temperatures will increase uniformly throughout the year.  This is in strong contrast to historical data, which shows a much higher increase during the coldest days and minimal change during the hottest days.  Their prediction is largely opinion, stretching the data to support their beliefs.

All his graph is basically showing is that the tropics have a greater chance of experiencing high temperature and humidity days than the mid-latitudes.  This is no change from today. 

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3775
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1326
  • Likes Given: 2126
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #626 on: May 12, 2020, 03:38:45 PM »
This off-topic discussion doesn't seem to end so i have to step in guys. Please move to another thread with the wet bulb talk.

Prepping for Collapse: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2799.0.html

Heatwaves: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2352.0.html
Unlearn things daily.

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5435
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 666
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #627 on: May 12, 2020, 10:37:18 PM »

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5435
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 666
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #628 on: May 12, 2020, 10:52:34 PM »
Suarez at wapo: falling down

 "Being poor. That's what I'm afraid of."

"8.5 million older workers over 55 would fall into poverty or near-poverty if they retired at 62 and began taking Social Security payments"

" it could never happen to me. After all, I had worked hard to build in bumpers around my life, and my career, to avoid that. I climbed the ladder in a very competitive business to jobs of greater renown, greater responsibility and higher pay. I did all the things that would have made me the hero of a financial advice column: got married and stayed married, paid off my mortgage years early, fully covered three college educations so my kids wouldn't have to borrow. Then the wheels came off. "

"Corporate greed. Greed has a lot to do with it"

"In just a few weeks I had moved from being a guy who had top-drawer health coverage to being one of the guys I read about, one of the guys I covered, who deferred health care for fear of the cost."

" my life is different now."

https://www.chron.com/opinion/article/I-clung-to-the-middle-class-as-I-aged-The-15237849.php

sidd

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3775
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1326
  • Likes Given: 2126
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #629 on: May 13, 2020, 03:18:20 PM »
Democrats More Worried About Poor People Double Dipping Than Corporations Getting Trillions

Unlearn things daily.

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1665
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 329
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #630 on: May 13, 2020, 03:47:18 PM »
Democrats More Worried About Poor People Double Dipping Than Corporations Getting Trillions

This is an excellent example of why YouTube clips are a terrible source for a discussion forum.

He says this information came from an Axios article  I can't find it.
He says Axios was quoting an anonymous aide to some congressional democrat.  We don't know who.  We don't know if there was any journalistic confirmation.  We don't know if any democratic legislator was offered a chance to comment, explain, or provide context.

The only legislator I know of who has raised a concern about "double-dipping" is Lindsay Graham. 

The Senate Republicans can derail any initiative to provide relief.  Was means-testing being contemplated in the interest of getting something of use beyond the roadblock?

Maybe the reality is as disturbing as this YouTuber claims.  Maybe the reality is more nuanced.  We really don't know, and meanwhile all we have is click-baity demogoguery without the least ability to fact-check anything.

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3775
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1326
  • Likes Given: 2126
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #631 on: May 13, 2020, 04:59:43 PM »
Steve, google "Pelosi double-dipping". First hit (at least for me) is:

Link >> https://www.axios.com/house-democrats-coronavirus-relief-proposal-fbb11534-f828-41e0-a1a7-6922e6c916d4.html

Quote
House leadership is also working on narrowing down the guidelines for how these funds are allocated to ensure that people aren't "double dipping" into the different pots of money, a senior Democratic aide told Axios.

PS: Dixon ain't lying!
Unlearn things daily.

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1665
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 329
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #632 on: May 13, 2020, 11:21:05 PM »
Steve, google "Pelosi double-dipping". First hit (at least for me) is:

Link >> https://www.axios.com/house-democrats-coronavirus-relief-proposal-fbb11534-f828-41e0-a1a7-6922e6c916d4.html

Quote
House leadership is also working on narrowing down the guidelines for how these funds are allocated to ensure that people aren't "double dipping" into the different pots of money, a senior Democratic aide told Axios.

PS: Dixon ain't lying!

Thanks for tracking the article down.

But no, Dixon is lying, or grossly incompetent.

He says that democrats are seeking to avoid double-dipping by receiving both enhanced unemployment benefits and the economic stimulus payments.  The economic stimulus payments would generally be taken to mean the $1200 direct payments to Americans.

That's not at all what the Axios article says.  It says:
"House leadership is also working on narrowing down the guidelines for how these funds are allocated to ensure that people aren't "double dipping" into the different pots of money, a senior Democratic aide told Axios.

For example, they do not want someone who is receiving more unemployment money to also receive money through the Paycheck Protection Program. However, it’s still unclear whether the PPP fund will be replenished."

The economic stimulus payments are separate from the PPP program.  The PPP program pays employers to keep employees paid, despite businesses being closed.  If your employer is paying your salary while not working, you should not also receive unemployment benefits.  This seems completely appropriate, and necessary to avoid sniping and vetoes by conservatives.

He's just wrong, and smearing democrats with no justification.  Read the Axios article.  Democrats are trying to put money exactly where the need is greatest.  He could have included the link to the article in his bit below the video, but didn't.  Here, he's a demagogue and a hack.

YouTube clips are terrible material for a discussion forum.

kassy

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1763
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 999
  • Likes Given: 682
Re: Economic Inequality
« Reply #633 on: May 14, 2020, 12:56:00 AM »
YouTube clips are terrible material for a discussion forum.

I so agree to this. Especially when not mentioning what they are about or what their central thesis is. You can read more efficiently then watch because you can skip parts in a text and video not so much.

Also videos and memes might save you typing but leave other people guessing (or scrolling past it).

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.