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sidd

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #150 on: October 17, 2017, 09:54:42 AM »
You have your opinions on the evidence and others have others.

Now as to current neo nazi influence in Ukrainian politics: the People's Front party have 82 seats.

A founder was a guy called Andriy Parubiy who asked that " the European Parliament to reconsider its negative reaction to former Ukrainian President Victor Yushchenko's decision to award Stepan Bandera, the leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, the title of Hero of Ukraine" 

"In 1991 he founded the Social-National Party of Ukraine together with Oleh Tyahnybok" who is another charmer, look him up.

Parubiy was feted by McCain and Ryan
 
https://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/john-mccain-and-paul-ryan-hold-good-meeting-veteran-ukrainian-nazi-demagogue-andriy

Another leading light of the People's Front is Arsen Avakov. Now that boy is describd in Wikipedia as drawing the ire of a rabbi:

"In November 2014, Ukraine's chief rabbi Yaakov Bleich condemned Avakov's appointment of Azov Battalion deputy commander and leading Patriot of Ukraine member Vadym Troyan as Kiev Oblast police chief, and demanded that "if the interior minister continues to appoint people of questionable repute and ideologies tainted with fascism and right-wing extremism, the interior minister should be replaced."

The People's Front has a military council [Wikipedia] including

Andriy Biletsky, commander of the Azov Battalion
Ihor Lapin, company commander of the Aidar Battalion

Look up the Aidar and Azov batallions, is instructive.

I'm afraid that rebranding doesn't quite work any more. These guys are nazis and the USA under Obama openly got in bed with them after decades of covert support to Bandera's descendants.  So sad.

sidd



Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #151 on: October 17, 2017, 10:22:09 AM »
Now as to current neo nazi influence in Ukrainian politics: the People's Front party have 82 seats.

A founder was a guy called Andriy Parubiy who asked that " the European Parliament to reconsider its negative reaction to former Ukrainian President Victor Yushchenko's decision to award Stepan Bandera, the leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, the title of Hero of Ukraine" 

"In 1991 he founded the Social-National Party of Ukraine together with Oleh Tyahnybok" who is another charmer, look him up.

Yes. That was Svoboda. 4.7% of the vote.
You are going in circles, sidd.

But I see where you are going. You want to link one person that founded Svoboda to a more popular middle of the road party, and then sort of extend what that person said at one point to that entire party.

I get it.

What I don't get is WHY ?
WHY are you so determined to put the stamp of Nazi on the Ukrainian democracy ?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 10:28:09 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #152 on: October 17, 2017, 10:37:10 AM »
Quote
The People's Front has a military council [Wikipedia] including

Andriy Biletsky, commander of the Azov Battalion
Ihor Lapin, company commander of the Aidar Battalion

Look up the Aidar and Azov batallions, is instructive.

Interesting, since both these batallions are funded by a jew (Ihor Kolomoyskyi).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi

Are you now claiming that Ihor is a Nazi too ?
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Neven

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #153 on: October 17, 2017, 11:47:53 AM »
Interesting, since both these batallions are funded by a jew (Ihor Kolomoyskyi).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ihor_Kolomoyskyi

Are you now claiming that Ihor is a Nazi too ?

Either that, or he is part of that small group of people who'll do anything to further their agenda (get more money and power, by helping the mountain of concentrated wealth grow bigger), not thinking along lines of borders or race. Just like super-corrupt Yanukovych trying to prop up Svoboda (a Pied Piper strategy of sorts).
Compare, compare, compare

Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #154 on: October 19, 2017, 07:50:42 AM »
Either that, or he is part of that small group of people who'll do anything to further their agenda (get more money and power, by helping the mountain of concentrated wealth grow bigger), not thinking along lines of borders or race. Just like super-corrupt Yanukovych trying to prop up Svoboda (a Pied Piper strategy of sorts).

So the choice for Kolomoyskyi is to be either a Nazi Jew (that would be a first), or a greedy person "who'll do anything to further their agenda " ?

No space for anything in between ?
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Neven

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #155 on: October 19, 2017, 10:05:18 AM »
Either that, or he is part of that small group of people who'll do anything to further their agenda (get more money and power, by helping the mountain of concentrated wealth grow bigger), not thinking along lines of borders or race. Just like super-corrupt Yanukovych trying to prop up Svoboda (a Pied Piper strategy of sorts).

So the choice for Kolomoyskyi is to be either a Nazi Jew (that would be a first), or a greedy person "who'll do anything to further their agenda " ?

No space for anything in between ?

That's how it looks to me, based on his resume.

From the Wikipedia link you posted:

Quote
Kolomoyskyi has used Privat's "quasi-military forces" to enforce hostile takeovers of companies, sending a team of "hired rowdies armed with baseball bats, iron bars, gas and rubber bullet pistols and chainsaws" to forcibly take over a Kremenchuk steel plant in 2006, and has used "a mix of phony court orders (often involving corrupt judges and/or registrars) and strong-arm tactics" to replace directors on the boards of companies he purchases stakes in. Kolomoyskyi was criticized by Mr Justice Mann in a court case in London involving an attempted hostile takeover of an oil company, with the judge stating that he had "a reputation of having sought to take control of a company at gunpoint in Ukraine" and that there were "strong grounds for doubting the honesty of Mr Kolomoyskyi"

In March 2015, after the dismissal of Oleksandr Lazorko, who was a protege of Kolomoyskyi, as a chief executive of UkrTransNafta, Ukraine's state-owned oil pipeline operator, men reported to be Kolomoyskyi's personal militia raided the UkrTransNafta's headquarters to expel the new government-appointed chief from the office. While Lazorko was in charge the state-owned pipelines had been delivering oil to an Kolomoisky-owned refinery in preference to competitors. According to Kolomoyskyi the raids were done with the aim to protect the companies from raiders and he related to it as a "PR-stunt to improve the ratings of smaller parties".

Kolomoyski is a prominent supporter of Ukraine's Jewish community and the president of the United Jewish Community of Ukraine. In 2010, he was appointed as the president of the European Council of Jewish Communities after promising the outgoing president he would donate $14 million, with his appointment being described as a "putsch"[48][49] and a "Soviet-style takeover" by other EJCJ board members. After several ECJC board members resigned in protest, Kolomyski quit the ECJC and, together with fellow Ukrainian oligarch Vadim Rabinovich, founded the European Jewish Union.

To me this all sounds like a person who is willing to go any lengths to obtain what he deems as necessary to protect or further his interests (like all Russian/Ukrainian oligarchs). Someone with such a mindset probably doesn't think along lines of Jew/Nazi or my country/other country, like you and I do. You don't become a billionaire oligarch just like that. And extreme-right Jews have known to exist. Maybe he doesn't care so much about Azov's background, as long as they do things that further his agenda (like getting back his Crimean assets or whatever).
Compare, compare, compare

sidd

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #156 on: October 19, 2017, 06:42:09 PM »
The guy is an equal opportunity looter, grabbed billions from PrivatBank, while the auditor(PwC) turned a blind eye. PwC lost their license in Ukraine after that.

https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-privatbank-idUSL5N1KF1SE

Now he is involved in another shady deal being dragged throu UK courts.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10454347/Oligarchs-at-war-in-the-British-courts.html

Just another crook.

sidd



TerryM

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #157 on: October 19, 2017, 07:49:16 PM »
The guy is an equal opportunity looter, grabbed billions from PrivatBank, while the auditor(PwC) turned a blind eye. PwC lost their license in Ukraine after that.

https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-privatbank-idUSL5N1KF1SE

Now he is involved in another shady deal being dragged throu UK courts.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/10454347/Oligarchs-at-war-in-the-British-courts.html

Just another crook.


sidd
Like Vito Corleone was just another Italian immigrant.


Ihor gives crooks a bad name.
Terry

Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #158 on: October 20, 2017, 04:39:17 AM »
Yeah. I did not do fact checking on Kolomoisky, but by the looks of it he is one of the reasons why Ukraine is considered so corrupt.

Poroshenko even went head-to-head with him in a crack-down on corrupt oligarchs in Ukraine :
http://www.politico.eu/article/star-wars-in-ukraine-poroshenko-vs-kolomoisky/

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Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #159 on: October 23, 2017, 07:07:29 AM »
It is a bit off-subject, but since 'corruption' came up as a major issue, the recent uprising in Ukraine deserves attention :
http://www.newsweek.com/war-against-corruption-ukraine-hots-690245

People in Ukraine are sick and tired of corruption in their nation.
They make it to the street, and protest. Especially the military veterans that fought the Russians in Donbass.

I wonder. Do people like Terry and Sidd still suggest that these people that are taking to the streets now are still Nazis (after all, there are many military among them), or is this latest uprising a true uprising of the people against corruption in their nation ?
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sidd

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #160 on: October 23, 2017, 07:44:19 AM »
Well, i can't speak for "people like Terry," but if you wish to discuss Nazis in the Ukraine, I ask what this anti corruption demonstration has to do with the issue ?

If your point is that there are non Nazis in the Ukraine, I gladly concede.

sidd

Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #161 on: October 23, 2017, 08:10:31 AM »
Well, i can't speak for "people like Terry," but if you wish to discuss Nazis in the Ukraine, I ask what this anti corruption demonstration has to do with the issue ?

OK. The question is if in your opinion this recent uprising in Ukraine is further proof of
"western powers aiding Nazi groups in the Ukraine" as you suggested the Maidan was, or if this uprising is (in your opinion) finally a real uprising of the people of Ukraine ?
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sidd

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #162 on: October 23, 2017, 08:33:14 AM »
I have no idea what this demonstration has to do with Nazis. Perhaps someone has evidence for or against Nazi participation ? If not, perhaps take it to another thread ?

sidd

Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #163 on: October 23, 2017, 08:38:51 AM »
Sidd said "I have no idea what this demonstration has to do with Nazis. "

So then why would you think that any previous uprising in Ukraine (specifically the EuroMaidan) has anything to do with Nazis (or western support thereof) ?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 08:55:24 AM by Rob Dekker »
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sidd

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #164 on: October 23, 2017, 09:01:45 AM »
Odd. I cannot find any post of mine that mentions Euromaidan, except one in the title of the link i posted

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/stepan-bandera-nationalist-euromaidan-right-sector/

But the excerpts i included had nothing to do with euromaidan, and were a historical look at Bandera.

sidd


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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #165 on: October 23, 2017, 09:15:27 AM »
Sidd said "I have no idea what this demonstration has to do with Nazis. "

So then why would you think that any previous uprising in Ukraine (specifically the EuroMaidan) has anything to do with Nazis (or western support thereof) ?

I don't have any axe to grind here, but that's just bad reasoning, Rob. It reminds me of a "mock" (very mock indeed) undergraduate maths exam question I saw once: "Prove by induction that since you couldn't answer the first question, you won't be able to answer any of the other questions either."  ;)

Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #166 on: October 23, 2017, 09:29:44 AM »
Odd. I cannot find any post of mine that mentions Euromaidan, except one in the title of the link i posted

Oh. C'mon sidd. In the very first post in this thread you mention :

"detailing the long and sordid history of western collaboration with Nazis in the Ukraine:"

referencing this thread :
https://shadowproof.com/2014/08/09/cia-intervention-in-ukraine-has-been-taking-place-for-decades/

which suggests :

Quote
today’s EuroMaidan heroes of yesteryear were in fact trained by the Gestapo and took part in the Holocaust.

and

Quote
Of all the aspects of the current crisis over the NATO/Russia standoff in Ukraine, the determined intervention into Ukrainian political affairs by the United States has been the least reported, at least until recently.

and

Quote
But the current crisis in Ukraine, which pits a U.S.-backed coalition, which includes neo-Nazis, ...

Which suggests you really believe that Euromaidan was instigated by western backed neo-Nazis in Ukraine.

If you did not intend to mean that, than please please say so.

The question remains :
In your opinion is this recent uprising in Ukraine is further proof of
"western powers aiding Nazi groups in the Ukraine" as you suggested the Maidan was, or if this uprising is (in your opinion) finally a real uprising of the people of Ukraine ?
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #167 on: October 23, 2017, 10:22:40 AM »
Sidd said "I have no idea what this demonstration has to do with Nazis. "

So then why would you think that any previous uprising in Ukraine (specifically the EuroMaidan) has anything to do with Nazis (or western support thereof) ?

I don't have any axe to grind here, but that's just bad reasoning, Rob.

Not really. If sidd has no idea what the current demonstrations have to do with Nazis, then why does he believe the past demonstrations do ?
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Avalonian

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #168 on: October 23, 2017, 10:25:42 AM »
Because having studied one event in detail does not presuppose that s/he's studied all similar events in detail. 

sidd

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #169 on: October 23, 2017, 09:32:55 PM »
I believe that

1) There were Nazis participating in the Euromaidan protests

2) Those nazis were the direct descentans of Bandera

I do not believe that Euromaidan was exclusively Nazi. The shadowproof article makes no such claim either.

sidd

TerryM

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #170 on: October 23, 2017, 10:41:02 PM »
I believe that

1) There were Nazis participating in the Euromaidan protests

2) Those nazis were the direct descentans of Bandera

I do not believe that Euromaidan was exclusively Nazi. The shadowproof article makes no such claim either.

sidd


sidd
At some point the "bring me another rock" spoof has to end.


People that aren't convinced by swastikas won't be convinced by wolfs-angle flags. People that aren't convinced when a "parliamentarian" shouts out a few "Heil Hitlers" wont be convinced when he claims to be fighting for a "white Europe". People that witness a coup and insist that it's OK because the perpetrators made new laws to cover their crime are not serious people.


The rocks are there and plenty of them. At some point people are responsible for their own education.


Avalonian
Nice to hear the crisp peel of logic through the darkening miasma.


Terry




Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #171 on: October 24, 2017, 04:26:02 AM »
Because having studied one event in detail does not presuppose that s/he's studied all similar events in detail.

True. He probably did not have time to analyze the recent demonstrations. Which is fine.

But if he "studied one event in detail" then he should be able to present SOME evidence of Nazis in past demonstrations (like Euromaidan). Let alone any "western support" of them.

He didn't.

That's why I asked "why does he believe the past demonstrations do" have anything to do with Nazis ?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 07:18:47 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #172 on: October 24, 2017, 04:32:35 AM »
I believe that

1) There were Nazis participating in the Euromaidan protests

2) Those nazis were the direct descentans of Bandera

I do not believe that Euromaidan was exclusively Nazi. The shadowproof article makes no such claim either.

Seriously, that's it ?

Nobody claims that there were no Nazis in Euromaidan.
And neither does anyone claim that Euromaidan was exclusively Nazi.

Either way, it would be nice if you could provide some evidence of "Nazis participating in the Euromaidan protests". You know, some pictures, or videos with chants like "Jews will not replace us", or so, like the Charlotteville protesters...

And after that some evidence that these Nazis were "direct descentans of Bandera".
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 04:51:46 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #173 on: October 24, 2017, 04:39:47 AM »
People that aren't convinced by swastikas won't be convinced by wolfs-angle flags. People that aren't convinced when a "parliamentarian" shouts out a few "Heil Hitlers" wont be convinced when he claims to be fighting for a "white Europe". People that witness a coup and insist that it's OK because the perpetrators made new laws to cover their crime are not serious people.

Terry, could you kindly provide some evidence for the bolded claims ?
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sidd

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #174 on: October 24, 2017, 05:59:26 AM »
"At some point the "bring me another rock" spoof has to end."

Apparently not. I fully expect it to continue for ever, since historical revisionism never ends.

But as for me, I am done for the moment. I have stated my evidence for the thesis that Western powers have supported Nazis in the Ukraine since the second world war. I do not intend to repeat it. As and when I happen to find new evidence I shall post it.

sidd

Rob Dekker

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #175 on: October 26, 2017, 08:02:38 AM »
"At some point the "bring me another rock" spoof has to end."

Apparently not. I fully expect it to continue for ever, since historical revisionism never ends.

Ah. Now the excuse is "historical revisionism" ?
I'm sorry, but Internet has a very good memory.

So far neither you nor Terry has come up with a 'rock'.
Just soap bubbles that were popped one by one.

Can you guys please consider the obvious, that maybe you have been ill-informed by Russian propaganda ?

Still waiting for some evidence of Nazis in Ukraine during the Euromaidan, western support of them, and a challenge to of the evidence presented, that Russian forces are the ones killing Ukrainian civilians in the Donbass.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 09:22:59 AM by Rob Dekker »
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sidd

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #176 on: October 29, 2017, 03:20:33 AM »
I should remark that anti-semitism in Ukraine precedes the Nazis, Bandera was not the first by any means, though viler than most.  Symon Petliura was head of state  and army in 1919-1920 and his forces killed several tens of thousands of Jews. Apparently Petliura wasn't personally antisemitic (some of his best friencds were Jewish, no doubt ...) , but he stood aside: " "it is a pity that pogroms take place, but they uphold the discipline of the army." [Wikipedia]

As part of the the rehab of Ukrainian history, a statue has just been erected of Petilura. Quite unsurprisingly, some people object to that.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-honors-nationalist-whose-troops-killed-50000-jews/

sidd




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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #177 on: June 16, 2018, 12:30:10 PM »
How's tricks in Ukraine these days? The following may provide an insight. Reports and allegations cannot be verified. Selected quotes for examples only, recommend all refs are read in full. These often separate activity in Ukraine proper with that in the separatist territory and Crimea under Russian control.

Summary: Things are better and things are worse. Peace agreements have not been implemented as agreed by either side. The following should be seen as coming from a 'western' pov including the EU. From what I could see USAID (ngo) was a major funding source / co-coordinator involved with Amnesty Ukraine. The following should be seen as a general guide only and not definitive due to natural limitations.

Far-right radical neo-nazi fascist groups take part in a rally to mark Defender of Ukraine Day, in Kiev, Ukraine October 14, 2017. © Gleb Garanich / Reuters

What's with the face masks and the torches?

Those pictured are the National Corps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Corps
They were formed from the Azov Battalion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

Quote
Azov saw its first combat experience recapturing Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists forces in June 2014. Initially a volunteer militia, formed as the Azov Battalion on 5 May 2014 during the 2014 Ukrainian crisis, on 12 November 2014 Azov was incorporated into the National Guard of Ukraine. All regiment members were contract soldiers serving in the National Guard of Ukraine. Since its inception, the regiment lost 41 soldiers in the course of the War in Donbass. In 2014, it gained notoriety after allegations of torture and war crimes, as well as the Nazi sympathies and usage of associated symbols by the regiment itself, as seen in their logo featuring the Wolfsangel, one of the original symbols used by the German Nazi party. Around 10-20% of the unit were Nazis in 2014. At the same time, the regiment's soldiers come from 22 countries and are of various backgrounds.

More than half of the regiment's members speak Russian and come from eastern Ukraine, including cities of Donetsk and Luhansk.
The regiment's first commander was far-right nationalist Andriy Biletsky, who led the neo-Nazi Social-National Assembly and Patriot of Ukraine. In its early days, Azov was the Ministry of Internal Affairs' special police company, led by Volodymyr Shpara, the leader of the Vasylkiv, Kiev, branch of Patriot of Ukraine and Right Sector. Under the "Azov" umbrella were also created the non-governmental organization "Azov Civil Corps" and the political party National Corps.

Here's another photo in another ANTI-Government protest rally in 2017: Activists of nationalist groups and their supporters take part in the so-called March of Dignity, marking the third anniversary of the 2014 Ukrainian pro-European Union mass protests, in Kiev, Ukraine. REUTERS/Valentyn Ogirenko


Quote
Ukrainian right-wing groups stage anti-government rally in Kiev February 23, 2017
“There has been no improvement, it has even become worse compared to what it used to be. The army still has no resources, just like before. People have become three times poorer and the authorities are not doing anything,” he said.

None of the three groups
behind the rally - the nationalist Svoboda (Freedom) party, the far-right Right Sector and the newly formed National Corps party founded by members of the Azov battalion - are currently represented in parliament.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis/ukrainian-right-wing-groups-stage-anti-government-rally-in-kiev-idUSKBN1612HC

[Translation] Oct 2017 More than 9 thousand activists of political parties "Svoboda", "National Corps" (formerly "Azov") and "Right Sector" have completed the procession in the center of Kiev. Earlier at 12:10, activists began to disperse from the rally, which took place on the Constitution Square near the parliament building.
https://ukranews.com/news/480851-fayery-y-dymovye-shashky-nacyonalysty-provely-mnogotysyachnyy-marsh-v-centre-kyeva



Now four human rights groups have issued a joint letter to the Ukrainian government, calling on Kiev to condemn attacks and threats committed by “radical groups” which promote hate and to hold the guilty parties accountable.

Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, Front Line Defenders, and Freedom House sent a letter to the Ukrainian Interior Ministry and the Prosecutor General’s Office detailing a series of attacks by right-wing groups against minorities and activists that have gone largely ignored by law enforcement.

Quote
Joint Letter to Ukraine's Minister of Interior Affairs and Prosecutor General Concerning Radical Groups - June 14, 2018

Hiding under a veneer of patriotism and what they describe as “traditional values”, members of these groups have been vocal about their contempt for and intent to harm women’s rights activists, ethnic minorities, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex (LGBTI) people, and others who hold views that differ from their own. These acts are restricting the peaceful exercise of their human rights and is further shrinking the space for civil society for groups that they believe do not have a right to public representation or participation in civic life.

Since the beginning of 2018, members of radical groups such as C14, Right Sector, Traditsii i Poryadok, Karpatska Sich and others have carried out at least two dozen violent attacks, threats, or instances of intimidation in Kyiv, Vinnitsa, Uzhgorod, Lviv, Chernivtsi, Ivano-Frankivsk and other Ukrainian cities. The law enforcement authorities have rarely launched investigations into the threats and attacks committed by these groups. In the cases where investigations were launched, there is no indication that effective investigative measures were undertaken, and perpetrators were identified, despite attackers publicly claiming, in some cases, responsibility for the attacks on social media.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/06/14/joint-letter-ukraines-minister-interior-affairs-and-prosecutor-general-concerning
https://freedomhouse.org/article/joint-letter-urgent-need-ukrainian-authorities-end-impunity-radical-violence
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-rights-criticism/radical-violence-rising-in-ukraine-due-to-state-inaction-rights-groups-idUSKBN1JA1YD


Ukrainian officials must “meet their obligations to guarantee the rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and expression, and the right to safety and security to all people in Ukraine,” the letter goes on. However, the report is curiously silent on the fact that many of the “radical groups” – right-wing paramilitary organizations with neo-Nazi sympathies – have received direct and indirect support from Kiev, and in some cases have even been integrated into the country’s armed forces.

Kyiv, February 27, 2018 - Human Rights in 2017: a report by Amnesty International
http://uacrisis.org/64750-human-rights-2017-report-amnesty-international



Amnesty International: Ukraine’s law enforcement agencies continue to use torture
By Interfax-Ukraine. Published Feb. 22
Ukraine’s law enforcement agencies continue to use torture, as well as other forms of ill-treatment, according to Amnesty International Ukraine.

“The investigation into the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) for its alleged secret prisons failed to make any progress. Law enforcement officials continued to use torture and other ill-treatment,” the human rights organization said in an annual report, which was made available to Interfax-Ukraine.

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/amnesty-international-ukraines-law-enforcement-agencies-continue-use-torture.html

Quote
Ukraine 2017/2018

The investigation into the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) for its alleged secret prisons failed to make any progress. Law enforcement officials continued to use torture and other ill-treatment.

The Ukrainian authorities increased pressure on their critics and independent NGOs, including journalists and anti-corruption activists. The authorities launched criminal investigations and passed laws aimed at restricting the rights to freedom of expression and freedom of association, among other things.

The de facto authorities in the separatist-controlled territories continued to unlawfully detain and imprison their critics. In November, the de facto Supreme Court in Donetsk ordered a man to be put to death. In Russian-occupied Crimea, critics of the authorities faced intimidation, harassment and criminal prosecution.

In eastern Ukraine, the separatist and government forces continued fighting, in violation of the 2015 ceasefire agreement. Casualties among the forces and civilians continued to grow, and according to the UN had reached 10,225 dead by 15 August, including 2,505 civilians. On 27 December, the two sides exchanged prisoners, releasing a total of 380 people.

Civil society activists and members of NGOs, particularly those working on corruption, were regularly harassed and subjected to violence. These incidents were often not effectively investigated, and members of the authorities, including security services in some instances, were widely suspected to have instigated them.

A law adopted in March obliged anti-corruption activists, including members of NGOs and journalists, to file annual income declarations – something that state officials have to do – or face criminal charges and imprisonment. 
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia/ukraine/report-ukraine/


FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IN POST–EUROMAIDAN UKRAINE
1.1 FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION BEFORE 2014
1.2 FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION SINCE THE 2014 REVOLUTION

https://pen-international.org/app/uploads/archive/2017/09/PEN-International-Ukraine-Report.pdf

My last PM to Neven: "Hey it won't be difficult to walk away. And it won't be my loss either."
Neven can fight his own fights. Win his own arguments. Stand up for his own values & political views. Post his own research. I won't be his Proxy anymore to debate those he wants me to because he will not.

Alexander555

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #178 on: June 16, 2018, 01:15:32 PM »
And the same is happening in India. The hindu nationalists are already in power for several years. A little more population growth, and a little more water stress, and little more air pollution.... And you have a full scale nazi army, with nuclear arms, hundreds of millions strong.

Hefaistos

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #179 on: June 25, 2018, 10:41:03 PM »
Atlantic Council now tells us there is a real problem with nazis in Ukraine
"Ukraine’s Got a Real Problem with Far-Right Violence (And No, RT Didn’t Write This Headline)"

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real-problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline

Lurk

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #180 on: June 26, 2018, 01:39:50 AM »
 New bill offers amnesty to Ukrainian refugees who illegally remain on Russian territory
Published time: 25 Jun, 2018

“The draft law allows for legalization of the Ukrainian refugees who remain on the territory of the Russian Federation through “migration amnesty”: in particular, any Ukrainian citizens whose legal temporary stay on Russian territory is overdue can extend this period within 180 days since the date when this bill comes into force as law,”
 reads an explanatory note attached with the document that was posted on the State Duma’s website on Monday.
My last PM to Neven: "Hey it won't be difficult to walk away. And it won't be my loss either."
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Lurk

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #181 on: June 26, 2018, 01:56:31 AM »
Agricultural production in Russia's Crimea is set to rise by at least 10 percent this year with the help of government investments.

Output will grow to 58 billion rubles (shy of $1 billion), which corresponds to a 10 percent growth year-on-year, according to Minister of Agriculture of the Republic Andrey Ryumshin. Since becoming part of the Russian Federation in 2014, Crimea's agriculture has grown by almost a quarter. According to Ryumshin, in 2012-2013, Ukraine invested 113.6 million hryvnia ( about $8 million) in Crimea’s agricultural sector.

"For comparison, after reunification with Russia - for 2014-2017 - the amount of state support exceeded 7.2 billion rubles (about $120 million),” he said. Russian state support allows Crimea to deal with Western sanctions and Ukraine’s water blockade.

In 2014, Ukraine greatly reduced the volume of water flowing into Crimea via the Soviet-built North Crimean Canal to cause irrigation problems on the peninsula. Kiev’s decision to blackmail Crimea with water has backfired, former Ukrainian MP Vadym Kolesnichenko told RIA Novosti.

The three largest buyers of Crimean wheat are Lebanon, Syria and Turkey.

https://www.rt.com/business/430806-crimea-russia-agriculture-boost/

imo with the exception of their specialty shows, RT is mainly a news portal. They cull news reports from others and provide an outlet for "independent  freelance journalists and academics" who might otherwise never get published in the west/english MSM.

That is a good thing. It presents news and stories and background and "perspectives" unlikely to be found anywhere else ... 

 iow they are not like the NYTs WaPo CNN Al Jazeera or Fox news - RT does "not create" the news or the HYPE it simple reports the news as it is - when it's happening - the Ruptly service is great live viewing NO COMMENTARY or OPINIONS over the top it's Raw News as it is happening - and it's a low level very tight operation with little time or energy spent on raucous SPIN. 
My last PM to Neven: "Hey it won't be difficult to walk away. And it won't be my loss either."
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Lurk

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #182 on: June 26, 2018, 02:02:10 AM »
Atlantic Council now tells us there is a real problem with nazis in Ukraine
"Ukraine’s Got a Real Problem with Far-Right Violence (And No, RT Didn’t Write This Headline)"

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real-problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline

It's been noted by RT.
Quote
Atlantic Council finally admits Ukraine’s Nazi problem, and seems upset RT reported it earlier by Bryan MacDonald Bryan MacDonald is an Irish journalist based in Russia - very good article with excellent background history

KRASNODAR - For the uninitiated, the Atlantic Council is NATO’s propaganda wing. And whenever its lobbyists, or guest writers, publish opinions which digress from the standard Washington foreign policy establishment position, it usually suggests a change in attitude is on the cards.


https://www.rt.com/op-ed/430796-ukraine-nazi-atlantic-council/

Quote
extracts

Ivan Katchanovski, a Ukrainian emigre professor in Canada, has consistently warned of the dangers of appeasing ultra-nationalists. This weekend, he tweeted: “far right violence became normalized and mainstream in Ukraine following their crucial role in violent attacks during Maidan, (the) Maidan and Odesa (sic) massacres, war in Donbas & political assassinations. But Western governments and media chose to deny and ignore this. Now it is too late.”

His view is supported by Tarik Cyril Amar of Columbia University. “Timing mattered enormously: in 2014 Ukraine needed the West urgently. The West was engaged, rightly, but not as, literally, invested as now. That was the moment, obviously, not to let the far-right infiltration tactics pass,” he wrote. “That was also the moment when western intellectuals signed a letter to do precisely that - because: wartime emergency, Russian info war, blablabla.

And that was the tip of the iceberg. To all those who joined what Andreas Umland later proudly called the ‘fencing season’ for the right: congrats. You now know how it feels to be a fellow traveler (sic).”

[...]
Yet, the simple fact remains: RT reported on Ukraine’s Nazi problem when mainstream outlets deliberately ignored this reality.

Back in October of 2014, I wrote: “If it walks like a Nazi and quacks like a Nazi – it’s the far-right,” adding “when correspondents in Kiev see Nazis, they report only the presence of far-right nationalists, a far more palatable term. Welcome to the bizarre world of Western media in Ukraine. A self-contained pit of rumor, fear, braggadocio and propaganda.”

Earlier that month, I published “A journalist’s duty is to inform: have western press forgotten this in Ukraine?”

Again, questioning why journalists refused to report the facts. After this, for challenging their group think, many of the Western ‘hack pack’ unfollowed or blocked me on Twitter: the modern form of journalistic ostracism.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 10:17:24 AM by ASILurker »
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Hefaistos

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #183 on: July 05, 2018, 07:40:35 PM »
Israel supplying weapons to Azov neo-nazi brigade:
"Avoz’s young founder and first military commander Andriy Biletsky is today a lawmaker in the Ukrainian parliament. ... Biletsky in 2014 wrote that “the historic mission of our nation in this critical moment is to lead the white races of the world in a final crusade for their survival. A crusade against the Semite-led untermenschen.”

https://electronicintifada.net/content/israel-arming-neo-nazis-ukraine/24876

The Azov Battalion has received teams of American military advisors and high powered US-made weapons.
https://grayzoneproject.com/2018/04/07/the-us-is-arming-and-assisting-neo-nazis-in-ukraine-while-congress-debates-prohibition/

"U.S. corporate media spent years dismissing the role of neo-Nazis in Ukraine’s 2014 coup but it is suddenly going through a conversion, as Daniel Lazare reports."

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/07/05/corporate-medias-about-face-on-ukraines-neo-nazis/

sidd

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #184 on: July 06, 2018, 05:33:14 AM »
"Israel supplying weapons to Azov neo-nazi brigade:"

We are truly in a post reality world.

sidd

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #185 on: July 07, 2018, 06:23:58 PM »
Compare, compare, compare

Susan Anderson

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #186 on: July 07, 2018, 07:53:20 PM »
@Neven: We now have a one-party government, thanks to the divisiveness on the Democratic side that lost the last election. Democrats don't get a voice in Congress. They're in the minority. The majority owns everything now (elected by a minority, but they will amp up the cheating with a complicit Supreme Court as well).

Lurk

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #187 on: July 08, 2018, 05:09:58 AM »
This isn't 'news'. Fascists love other fascists almost as much as they love themselves. They also do not care in the least what you think or want for the world.

"Aristotle...made the observation that ethics deals with the field of human social behaviour," Vallor said, and that this field "is so infinitely complex, and unpredictable, and blurry...that the kind of ethical wisdom that you need from ethics is very different from the sort of intellectual skill that you use, say, in mathematics."

... and in climate science, in economics and in an AI-techno-dystopian-society.

The shortest definition for the term Future Shock is a personal perception of: "too much change in too short a period of time".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock

It's not coming, it is here now.




and for dessert A.C. Grayling - Closing the Modern Mind
https://youtu.be/-bncwCZLs0U?t=42m40s
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 05:34:56 AM by ASILurker »
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Lurk

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Re: Ukraine, Nazis and western support
« Reply #188 on: July 08, 2018, 05:50:59 AM »
Sidd shared this on another thread - it fits perfectly here and in the Mueller Cohen Investigation thread too:

July 6, 2018 - NED Pursues Regime Change by Playing the Long Game

Quote
The general feeling in Congress is that the U.S. government should continue to fund the work of the NED and its affiliated institutes. Most members of Congress view the organizations as important assets in the U.S. government’s toolkit, believing they play an important role in U.S. global strategy.

Congressman Gerry Connolly (D-VA) unabashedly praised NED, IRI, and NDI, calling their work “exciting.” He told the three officials that “nothing does America prouder than the work frankly you’re doing.”

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/07/06/ned-pursues-regime-change-by-playing-the-long-game/
My last PM to Neven: "Hey it won't be difficult to walk away. And it won't be my loss either."
Neven can fight his own fights. Win his own arguments. Stand up for his own values & political views. Post his own research. I won't be his Proxy anymore to debate those he wants me to because he will not.