Ukraine, Nazis and western support

[SeanAU]

that was an interesting read but i don't understand why it's surprising they're using nazis.

Yeah, it's an odd statement isn't it. I can only think he means for the 'average person' it might be surprising - hard to know.

thx for the other comments i think ur right there too.

and fwiw a little tale someone sent me
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuDNATlA3nB/

take care

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS
I thought this progression is instructive (for silent readers): ... I mean we hear about Irangate and Oliver North in the "news" when it happens, but really we know nothing and are told nothing about what is truly going on - ever.

The short-story goes like this:
Adolf Hitler created the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations (ABN) in 1943 which the OSS maintains contacts with  and later with CIA help spawns into the Asian Peoples' Anti-Communist League (APACL) in 1954, which then merges with ABN globally to form what's then known as the World Anti-Communist League (WACL) in 1967.

The WACL proceeds to work closely with US Govt/CIA units of the American National Security Council, the National Coalition for Peace Through Strength, and the US chapter of WACL called the United States Council for World Freedom (USCWF) which was founded in 1981 by Major General John K. Singlaub. Singlaub was the former US Chief of Staff of both United Nations and American forces in South Korea, but was relieved in 1977 by U.S. President Jimmy Carter after publicly criticizing Carter's decision to reduce the number of troops on the peninsula.

In 1981, the USCWF was placed under watch by the Anti-Defamation League, which said that the organization had increasingly become "a point of contact for extremists, racists, and anti-Semites". By 1985, the Anti-Defamation League declared itself "satisfied that substantial progress has been made since 1981 in ridding the organization of racists and anti-Semites."

This USCWF unit spawns the Committee for a Free Afghanistan setup by the CIA’s Director, William Casey and managed by Osama Bin Laden et al; which combined ultimately leads to Irangate, Colonel Oliver North, the Contras, and much later 9/11 and the Global War on Terror. The 1987 Irangate scandal weakens the WACL for a time. 

But with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Bloc in 1990 the World Anti-Communist League (WACL) renames itself as the World League for Freedom and Democracy (WLFD). Today the WLFD unites representatives from more than 100 countries and has eight regional divisions but still has its headquarters in Taipei, Taiwan.

And so the essential Far Right Racist Nazi Fascist Corporatist Neocon Neocolonialist Totalitarian values of the WLFD hiding behind a thin veneer of "freedom and democracy" remain the same, only this time their primary goal is shifted from the USSR and Anti-Communism to the destruction and the break up of the Russian Federation instead.   

With the launch of Russia's SMO in Ukriane the US Govt/CIA has morphed the WLFD operations into another new entity called the Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum (FNRF) founded on 8th May 2022 and based in Poland.

This Forum aims to fight for the "decolonization, de-occupation, decentralization, de-Putinization, denazification and demilitarisation of Russia".

Therefore in this great arc of history over 80 years we have in 1943 the Third Reich creating the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations (ABN) formed to break up the Soviet Union, which continues unbroken to this day as both the World League for Freedom and Democracy (WLFD) and the Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum (FNRF) intent on breaking up the Russian Federation into 41 new separate states.

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried!

from - The World Anti-Communist League: the Internationale of Crime
https://www.voltairenet.org/article202294.html   

In 1943, the Third Reich created the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations (ABN) to break up the Soviet Union. At the end of the Second World War, the United Kingdom and the United States took back the Nazis and their collaborators and maintained the ABN

Frank Wisner, the CIA’s Number 2, rewrote its history. He printed a number of booklets claiming that the ABN had been created at the Liberation. He claimed that the peoples of Central Europe and the Baltic had all, collectively, fought against both the Nazis and the Soviets. This is an enormous lie. In reality, many Central European political parties sided with the Nazis against the Soviets, forming SS divisions and providing almost all the guards for Nazi extermination camps.

The efforts of Congress with the Church Commission, which revealed the CIA’s crimes in the 50s and 60s, were to no avail

The Ukrainian "integral nationalists" of Dmytro Dontsov and his henchmen Stepan Bandera and Yaroslav Stetsko followed this path. The former, who was already a secret agent for Kaiser Wilhelm II and later for Führer Adolf Hitler, was picked up by the CIA, lived in Canada and died in 1973 in South River, New Jersey, contrary to his Wikipedia entry. He was one of the Reich’s worst mass criminals.

Stepan Bandera and Yaroslav Stetsko, were hired by the CIA in Munich. They provided Ukrainian-language broadcasts for Radio Free Europe and organized sabotage operations in the Soviet Union. Stepan Bandera had perpetrated numerous massacres and proclaimed Ukrainian independence with the Nazis....

Stepan Bandera... came to Canada to propose to Dmytro Dontsov that he become the head of his organization .

Time passed, these mass criminals died without ever having been held to account. Their organizations, the OUN and ABN, should also have disappeared. They did not. The OUN was reconstituted during the war in Ukraine. So has the ABN. It now has a website. Here you can read post-war propaganda booklets claiming that the organization never existed before the fall of the Reich. ....................

BY the Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine July  2022 revised propaganda history


Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations. A New Reading
03/07/2022
The materials on the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations (ABN), which are kept in the Branch State Archive of the Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine, make it possible in the current situation to look at the imperial policy of Moscow in all periods of its existence in certain state entities from a slightly different angle and to properly assess the efforts of the activists of the Ukrainian national liberation movement, who tried to unite the enslaved peoples in the struggle  against the evil empire, and warned the entire civilized world to be alert, united and not to have any illusions about the real intentions of the Kremlin leaders. ...............

"The Struggle Against Russia Is Ukraine’s Historical Destiny”
In the period of 1943–1955, the organizational formation of the ABN took place, there was the implementation of a number of ideas, active seeking the ways to enter the world political arena. What were the political goals that contributed to the joining of so many supporters? .......

In 1955, it managed to conclude an agreement on a joint anti-Bolshevik struggle with the “Anti-Communist League of the Peoples of Asia” (APACL). “Subsequently, —as noted in the archive materials, —the ABN delegation took part in the work of the conference of the “Anti-Communist League of the Peoples of Asia” in Saigon (Vietnam) in 1957 and established very important contacts with the peoples of Burma, Korea, Malaya, Pakistan, Vietnam, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, Australia, Greece and Turkey”.

After that, Yaroslav Stetsko visited Spain, Italy, Australia, Turkey, the USA, Mexico and other countries, where he was received warmly and kindly. In particular, the main achievement of the ABN in relations with the United States in the 1950s was the introduction by the Congress of the Week of Enslaved Peoples. This event itself, according to the members of the ABN, confirmed that Russia was recognized as an aggressor and occupier on Ukrainian land.
https://szru.gov.ua/en/history/stories/anti-bolshevik-bloc-of-nations-a-new-reading

UKR Intel services and in the WEST don't seem to know the USSR no longer exists ......

https://www.academia.edu/50498974/AntiBolshevik_Bloc_of_Nations_and_the_World_AntiCommunist_League
1958 Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations by Yaroslav Stetsko INFO DOC
AMERICAN FRIENDS OF ANTI-BOLSHEVIK BLOC OF NATIONS .
https://diasporiana.org.ua/wp-content/uploads/books/1573/file.pdf
Ukrainian diaspora info
https://diasporiana-org-ua.translate.goog/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Publication of the Coalition to Oppose the Arms Trade (COAT)
Defunding the Myths and Cults of Cold War Canada:
Ongoing state support for East European émigré groups with deep fascist roots
(Collaborators, Crusades and Coverups in an era of “truth and reconciliation”)
https://coat.ncf.ca/P4C/70/70_48.htm

The ABN formation dates back to a conference of representatives of non-Russian peoples that took place in November 1943, near Zhytomyr as the Committee of Subjugated Nations/the Anti-Bolshevik Front on the initiative… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Bolshevik_Bloc_of_Nations

FBI FILES - American Friends of the ABN etc eg 1952 newsletters promos
https://vault.fbi.gov/anti-bolshevik-bloc-of-nations/anti-bolshevik-bloc-of-nations-part-01-of-01

-----------------------------

from The CIA revives Ukrainian Nazism
https://www.voltairenet.org/article219664.html

The ABN continues today with the "Free Nations Post-Russia Forum", to be held on September 26-27-28 in London, Paris and possibly Strasbourg. Its aim remains the same: to break up the Russian Federation into 41 separate states.

also attacks the People’s Republic of China, North Korea and Iran. Its documents also touch on Venezuela, Belarus and Syria. However, the ABN participated in the creation and animation of the World Anti-Communist League [6], where most of the world’s dictators met, now elegantly named the World League for Freedom and Democracy.

This Post-Russia Forum of Free Nations was created by the CIA in response to Russia’s military intervention in Ukraine.

In a year and a half, it has already met 7 times, in Poland, the Czech Republic, the USA, Sweden and the European and Japanese Parliaments. At the same time, the CIA has created governments-in-exile for Belarus and Tatarstan, just as it did for Iraq and Syria. No one has yet recognized them, but the European Union has already received them with deference. These governments-in-exile are in addition to the long-standing government-in-exile in Itchkeria (Chechnya).

Think-tanks too, like the Jamestown Foundation. It was founded with the help of CIA director William J. Casey, .... It was banned in Russia in 2020 (i.e., before the war in Ukraine), because it was already printing material on the break-up of Russia.

Finally, the Hudson Institute is funded by Taiwan through its agency, the World League for Freedom and Democracy (formerly the World Anti-Communist League). This enabled it to host a session of the Post-Russia Forum of Free Nations

------------------------------------

AND Continuing on with - The World Anti-Communist League: the Internationale of Crime article extracts:

.... the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations (ABN). Ukrainian,Hungarian, Romanian, Croatian, Bulgarian, Slovakian, Lithuanian (the list goes on) fascists are brought together under the leadership of Yaroslav Stetsko. The former collaborationist leader in Ukraine, Stetsko, is considered responsible for the massacre of 700 persons, the majority of whom are Jewish, at Lvov on 2 July 1941.

Mid-50s - the CIA, led by Allen Dulles, structures the intelligence services of these States and puts in place an organization to put anti-communist parties in the region in contact with each other. And so around Chiang Kai-Shek, the Asian People’s Anti-Communist League (APACL)is born.

Gradually, the CIA forms a global network of political groups and instructors in counter-insurrection. In 1967, ABN and APACL merge under the banner of the,“World Anti-Communist League (WACL)” and extend their activities across the entire “free world”.

Backed by Nixon and Kissinger - centred in Taiwan - Funding is extravagantly guaranteed by the Church of Unification. However from 1975, this is no longer acknowledged. Reverend Sun Myung Moon then claims to break ties with the League ......



WACL’s role in implementing the Phoenix Plan (1968-71) and the Condor Plan (1976-77), providing for the assassination of thousands of people suspected of sympathizing with communists in South East Asia and Latin America .........

Thus WACL becomes the den of the anti-Carter preparing for better days and spontaneously creates ties with the principal anti-Carter organization in the US: the National Coalition for Peace Through Strength. This front of rejection is an off-shoot of the American National Security Council, that President Eisenhower designated under the term “the military-industrial matrix”  ...

Reagan-Bush  -  The US industrial military complex finances the establishment of a US section of WACL called Council for World Freedom (USCWF). General John K. Singlaub is the president and General Daniel O’Graham, the Vice President. ...



 In order to combat Soviet presence in Afghanistan, the American Security Council finances [15] a thematic section of WACL: the Committee for a Free Afghanistan. Its headquarters are provided by the Heritage Foundation. The operation is launched when Margaret Thatcher and Lord Nicholas Bethell (Head of MI6) are on an official visit to the United States. The operation is led by General J. Milnor Roberts. The Committee is directly involved in providing logistical support to “freedom fighters” authorized by the CIA’s Director, William Casey [16] and managed by Osama Bin Laden ....

To fight the Sandinistas revolution in Nicaragua, WACL sets up a logistical base with Argentine trainers at John Hull’s premises in Costa Rica.

1983, the Under-Secretary for Defense, Fred C. Iklé, [21] establishes the Council for Defense of Liberty within the Pentagon.

the Committee decides that its secret intervention in Afghanistan would also be a model to follow in Nicaragua, Angola, Salvador,Cambodia and Vietnam but the detail of its actions is insufficiently documented.

In 1984, Ronald Reagan chooses to entrust to the League generally, and to John Singlaub particularly, all the private financing of Irangate under the direct authority of Colonel Oliver North in the National Security Council.The scandal erupts in 1987, revealing everything and destroying the WACL ....
[which is renamed in 1990 post-USSR dissolution to World League for Freedom and Democracy (WLFD).]

from The World Anti-Communist League: the Internationale of Crime
https://www.voltairenet.org/article202294.html   
---------------

other refs:
World League for Freedom and Democracy (formerly World Anti-Communist League)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_League_for_Freedom_and_Democracy

Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Nations_of_Post-Russia_Forum

Jan 23, 2022 page13 Taipei Times
    A league with a dark past
    Despite emphasis on democratic ideals, the World League for Freedom and Democracy is haunted by its checkered history
        By James Baron / Contributing reporter
As for those Taiwanese who sought a third way and meaningful political participation, Lee insists they were a threat to stability. “They might be neither pro-Communist nor pro-Nationalist, but they wanted independence,” he says. “It might not be democratic, but we cannot afford to let you speak — I’m sorry I have to say that — because that kind of speech would probably promote violence and the country’s collapse.”   
https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2022/01/23/2003771895

https://www.facebook.com/p/World-League-for-Freedom-and-Democracy-WLFD-100083025682333/

Letters to YELSTIN -- can we hold a WLFD conference in Moscow in 1993 your most esteemed excellency? and other files
https://yeltsin.ru/uploads/upload/2015/03/27/f6_o1_d161_021.pdf

... the World Anti-Communist League (WACL), was described by former member Geoffrey Stewart-Smith as a "largely a collection of Nazis, Fascists, anti-Semites, sellers of forgeries, vicious racialists, and corrupt self-seekers." In addition, a remarkably high percentage of members were connected to international drug smuggling.
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/World_League_for_Freedom_and_Democracy

------------------

The Spooks @ CIA et al just love what Drug Smuggling (and especially now people smuggling) can do for their Operations. Just ask Gary Webb ... oh sorry you can't he killed himself with two shots to his own head. Hurrumph he must have had 'mental issues'.............
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb
https://theintercept.com/2014/09/25/managing-nightmare-cia-media-destruction-gary-webb/

Gary Webb | Pulitzer Prize-Winning Journalist & Investigative Reporter
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Gary-Webb

Usual disgusting MSM propaganda against Gary Webb - treated him like they did Julian Assange, Snowdon, multiple Intel whistleblowers, and now Russell Brand 
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/05/movies/kill-the-messenger-recalls-a-reporter-wrongly-disgraced.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/gary-webb-was-no-journalism-hero-despite-what-kill-the-messenger-says/2014/10/17/026b7560-53c9-11e4-809b-8cc0a295c773_story.html
https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/archive/special/9712/ch01p1.htm
--------------------

The more we know the less we know we know .....

sorry about the info overload ... it is all connected more than we will ever know .... I'll shut up now

[SeanAU]

PSYCHOPATH's DELUSION CENTRAL - Bought to you by your Friendly Local CIA Branch

The Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum
 Post-Russia Forum of Free Nations
FREEDOM & PROSPERITY
Forum of the Free Nations of Post-Russia – a platform for analytics, communication and discussion for the purpose of finding the optimal solutions

Decolonization of the so-called Russian Federation. What we are doing is anti-colonial and national liberation struggle against the Kremlin Imperialism of Muscovy.
The Terrorist Empire of the Russian Federation, by liberating the occupied nations and colonized regions, must be replaced by a peaceful and civilized post-Russian space. This is a non-alternative component of the new architecture of long-term security, both in Europe and around the world.

Decolonization, liberation from occupation and colonial oppression of Muscovy, the creation of new geopolitical entities, as well as the subsequent Reconstruction of future independent states of post-Russian space: Tatarstan, Ural Republic, Sakha, Bashkortostan, United States of Siberia, Karelia, Circassia, Ingushetia, Baltic Republic, Ingushetia, Buryatia, Pacific Federation, Nogai El, Tyva, Chuvashia, Don Republic, Tyumen-Yugra Federation, Komi, Republic of Tver, Altai, Kuban, Volga Federation, Byarmia, Iriston, Novgorod Republic, Smalandia, Zalessye Federation, Khakassia, Pskov Republic, Kumykia, Lapland, Republic of Chernozemye and others.
‍
41 independent, free, developed and successful state instead of one crazy Empire is our main goal.
https://www.freenationsrf.org/

Who's CRAZY?

Russia Labels Poland-Registered "Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum" As An 'Undesirable Organization'
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-undesirable-organization-free-nations-of-post-russia-forum/32323120.html

Japan to create center to support nations enslaved by Russia
August 4,2023
https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/japan-to-create-center-to-support-nations-enslaved-by-russia/

Note the Following is 100% NAZISM in action
 
The US Fascist Neo-Nazi HUDSON INSTITUTE - (ref'd in above post) ala CIA et al
A New Architecture for Northern Eurasia: The Sixth Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum
April 25, 2023
The decision was made during the VII Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum, which took place on August 1-2 in Tokyo, one of the largest Japanese media, Tokyo Shimbun, reported.

The event took place in the building of the Parliament of Japan and gathered representatives of the national liberation movements of the enslaved peoples of Russia and representatives of the main factions of the Japanese Parliament. The participants discussed the political and economic future of certain territories of Russia after the expected collapse of the country as a result of the war against Ukraine.
https://www.hudson.org/events/new-architecture-northern-eurasia-sixth-free-nations-post-russia-forum

More NAZISM from America
Deconstructing Russia: Expert Insights from the Hudson Institute’s Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum Hybrid Warfare Analytical Group 08.05.2023
Shmygalova’s presentation was covering the topic “5 Reasons why Russia Should Dismantle”, you can view it in the attached video.
Varvara Shmygalova, Head of the Hybrid Warfare Analytical Group (HWAG) at the Ukraine Crisis Media Centre (UCMC), recently spoke at the Sixth Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum in the United States.
Оригінал статті - на сайті Українського кризового медіа-центру:
https://uacrisis.org/en/deconstructing-russia-expert-insights-from-the-hudson-institute-s-free-nations-of-post-russia-forum

more info refs

https://www.facebook.com/events/hudson-institute/free-nations-postrussia-forum-future-of-northern-eurasia-architecture-of-postrus/178469177907235/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Nations_of_Post-Russia_Forum

https://twitter.com/freenationsrf?lang=en 
https://nitter.net/freenationsrf?lang=en

Another case of extreme NAZISM - Estonian based Anti-Russian Sub-Forum-Forum
https://www.forumfreerussia.org/en/sections/forum

[SeanAU]

from Maria Zakharova's Weekly Briefing:

82nd Anniversary of Babyn Yar:

Last week marked the 82nd anniversary of the Babyn Yar tragedy. In 1941, in just two days on September 29 and 30, 1941, the Nazi invaders and militants of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists killed more than 30 thousand Jews, i.e. approximately 20% of the Jewish population in Kiev.

This punitive action was only the beginning and prologue, which gave a bloody start to the mass executions of old people, women, children, Soviet prisoners of war and underground fighters of all nationalities. From 1941 to 1943, more than 100,<> people were executed, and Babi Yar became an international grave and an ominous symbol of the inhuman cruelty of the Nazis.

This year, at events in Kiev on September 29 this year dedicated to this tragedy, the President of Ukraine said that "it is very important to always remember history." Yes, like those broken mechanical clocks that show the correct time twice a day. One cannot but agree with this. The only problem is that the clock is really broken. Vladimir Zelensky himself is stubbornly trying to forget everything connected with the past of his country and the people to which he considers himself, and indeed his family. On September 22 of this year, footage spread around the world as he applauded in the Canadian parliament to the veteran of the SS division "Galicia" J. Hunke, forgetting for a second that his own grandfather fought in the ranks of the Red Army during the Great Patriotic War and fought against such traitors and collaborators as J. Hunka. Or did he not forget it for a second? Judging by all the other steps of the Kyiv regime, not for a second. This is persistent amnesia.

However, this is not surprising. The glorification of Nazi-Bandera thugs has long been commonplace and the basis of Ukraine's state policy under the Kiev regime. The authorities are trying to erase from people's memory the feat of the Red Army soldiers, their decisive contribution to the victory over fascism. At the same time, Hitler's henchmen are being whitewashed, whose role in the deaths of civilians is not only hushed up, but also purposefully distorted. Festive processions are held in their honor, streets and stadiums are renamed, monuments are erected. What is this? Just historical amnesia? No. I think that this is not a question of the problem of one particular person (even if he is completely controlled from the outside), but a betrayal of the memory of ancestors and a desecration of the history of one's own people and country.

Continuing Canadian Nazi Fallout:

The scandal surrounding the warm welcome that was given in the Canadian parliament to the "veteran" of the SS division "Galicia" does not subside. And not only thanks to all those who saw in the incident the neo-Nazi essence of the Anglo-Saxon elites, but also to those who want to take advantage of a high-profile occasion to declare loyalty to the ideals of the unfinished collaborationist formations. You will say that this cannot be.

Canadian Prime Minister John Trudeau said repentance, and just the other day, all those who took part in this hellish gathering in honour of the Nazi walked around hiding their eyes from their own citizens and the descendants of the victims of Nazism, even from their own media. They seem to have recently transferred all the arrows to the chairman of the Canadian Parliament, saying that it was he who was to blame for everything, and they were all "white and fluffy." The only problem is that this tragedy is much deeper than just the presence of some people in the Canadian government who profess this neo-Nazi ideology. These are not individuals and it is not easy to see Deputy Prime Minister of Canada Heather Freeland (formerly Minister of Foreign Affairs), who was the main link in the formation of Ottawa's Russophobic course and the granddaughter of Nazi Mikhail Khomyak.

Just the other day, Canadian neo-Nazis from the racist association Active Club Canada declared their blood relationship with the SS division "Galicia". They reported that they consider their colleague a "war hero" and accused journalists of persecuting him. That's all right? We all remember how these scandals (including in Canada), when non-governmental organizations engaged in the search for Nazis, or journalists conducting their investigations, unearthed the history of this or that thug of the Third Reich, who settled in one of the Canadian provinces, ended in shame for all those who harbored these neo-Nazis. I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis themselves. They got sentences in one way or another. The whole society triumphed over the fact that justice existed. Let it be decades later, but still.

And what happens now? Against the backdrop of a wild scandal, there are organizations that begin to applaud all this and publicly make actions in support of it. Photos of members of the club laying flowers at the monument to the 1st Ukrainian Division in Oakville, Canada, were circulated on social networks. What kind of division is this? This is the SS division "Galicia" renamed in 1945. On the monument it is indicated - "participants in the battles near Brody".

Such clubs of "activists" are now growing like mushrooms in Western countries. Their total number in the USA, Canada and the EU exceeded a hundred. These are only those that operate completely legally.

https://karlof1.substack.com/p/maria-zakharovas-weekly-briefing-d7d

[SeanAU]

And here is Blinken doing all he can to twist the Nazi OUN truth about Babyn Yar:
to blame it on the Soviets instead falsely claiming they "buried the history"

He is one sick insane phucker this slimey fake Jew.

[zenith]

When Even The Nazis Aren’t Nazis
https://caityjohnstone.medium.com/when-even-the-nazis-arent-nazis-411a55a8a06b

"In what Matt Taibbi has described as “the worst op-ed in history”, Politico Europe has published an astonishing article titled “Fighting against the USSR didn’t necessarily make you a Nazi”, which defends the scandal of the Canadian parliament applauding a literal SS Nazi veteran as a “complicated” issue that is being exploited by “propagandists”.

Last year liberals were calling their political opponents Nazis and comparing Putin to Hitler. This year they’re defending Nazis and saying you can’t hate someone just because he swore allegiance to Hitler.

... I used to think Nazis were bad but then the mainstream press explained to me that many of the Nazis had reasons for wanting to be Nazis.

... For generations the US empire has been manufacturing a cultural obsession with the second world war in order to frame all its subsequent wars as “Good Guys vs Hitler Guys”, then the millisecond that framework became inconvenient it’s “Actually the Nazis weren’t all that bad if you think about it.”

... So let’s recap.

Jeremy Corbyn supporters: Nazis.

Palestinian rights activists: Nazis.

People who criticize Israel: Nazis.

People who didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton: Nazis.

Ukrainian soldiers with Nazi insignia and Nazi ideology: not Nazis.

Actual SS Nazis: not Nazis."

[Neven]

Remember the name of this thread: Ukraine, Nazis and western support

Now watch this video on Twitter.

[Neven]

Or watch this video I've uploaded below. Florifulgurator will argue that it's fine to admire General Rommel's strategic prowess, but of course, this will be beside the point, which is...

[zenith]

again it's one thing to admire (learn from) the strategic prowess of rommel, it's another thing to pin his picture up.

many nazis were brilliant technically and as individuals strategically, on the whole they were high as hell on meth. and whatever else, and made massive strategic blunders that cost them the war.

military are strange creatures, they are essentially fascist. even in ancient rome they had their own version of religion(s) (Mithras). i got into an arguement a few years ago with a jtf2 (canadian tier 1 special forces) member as i said they should go after saudi arabia for terrorism and he yelled at me that iran was the enemy and then said sunni and shia aren't the same thing implying iran was sunni. i had to leave before the guy killed me as there was no correcting him and the fire in his eyes was lit. he'd been in the middle east for years 'hunting bad guys' in the war against terror. he's an rcmp officer now working in surrey, bc (sikhs).

[SeanAU]

The Nazis didn't lose WWII. They simply merged with the West.

Yep. Many Nazis simply got new jobs in NATO.

[Florifulgurator]

<snip, you just keep repeating the revisionism and whitewashing. Stop doing that, or just admit that you're a Nazi yourself; N.>

[Rodius]

The Nazis didn't lose WWII. They simply merged with the West.

Yep. Many Nazis simply got new jobs in NATO.

I thought this was wrong... I mean, it had to be, right?

[BeeKnees]

So we have reached the point where anyone who served in the German army is a Nazi for the rest of their lives.  Which is every single man and boy over about 14 by the time the war ended.

I'm just glad some of you weren't in positions of power at the end of the war or you would've called for concentration camps to hold them all and Germans to be treated as second class citizens

[zenith]

that's actually a very short list, there were many, many more promoted to high positions in western organizations. nato in particular.

[Neven]

I'm just glad some of you weren't in positions of power at the end of the war or you would've called for concentration camps to hold them all and Germans to be treated as second class citizens

No, but I I wouldn't have imported them to my country, so they could fight the Russians.

I wouldn't have let them hold any positions of power either, most certainly not in military organisations such as NATO.

Medium:

Nazi war criminals and people who supported and helped Hitler to carry out the holocaust and other war crimes, genocides and crimes against Humanity were almost never put on trial for their crimes against the Jews, the Poles, the Greeks, the Russians and the people of Europe, but instead were installed in top positions in NATO, in the western German government, army, industry and western German society at large.

The most famous of them was Adolf Heusinger, chief of the Operationsabteilung from 1940–1944.

He was actually Hitler’s chief of staff and helped plan the Nazi’s invasions of Poland, Norway, Denmark, and France. He was promoted to colonel on August 1, 1940 and became chief of the Operationsabteilung in October 1940, making him number three in the Army planning hierarchy.

After the war, this German war criminal, the man who helped Hitler plan and execute his invasion of neighboring countries which directly led to the deaths of millions of people, was not even put on trial, quite contrary he was allowed to take over the newly established West German army, the “Bundeswehr”.

In 1961, Heusinger was made the Chairman of the NATO Military Committee (essentially he was NATO’s chief of staff). He served in that capacity until 1964.

But as Florifulgurator says in the War thread, one should just forget about history (to make it easier to repeat it, I guess). Nazi ideology, no big deal.

[Florifulgurator]

I'm just glad some of you weren't in positions of power at the end of the war or you would've called for concentration camps to hold them all and Germans to be treated as second class citizens

(...)

But as Florifulgurator says in the War thread, one should just forget about history (to make it easier to repeat it, I guess). Nazi ideology, no big deal.

Of course you can't understand what I meant. It was e.g. about modern Poland forgetting about the massacres perpetrated by Ukrainians in a time long gone by. -- Unlike you I do indeed care about accurate details of history. Much of that you have censored here. I do care in order to "forget" about it for the sake of a peaceful cooperation of the humanity of today. Obviously such thinking is alien to you. I prefer living in the present and caring about the future. That requires knowing history as well as being able to forget about it.

You are instead abusing a simplistic Russian black-white narrative of history to excuse the repeat of history (imperialist war) in new clothing today. That narrative you should indeed forget seriously, in the sense you chose to misinterpret me. Stop wasting your brain on simplistic un-real non-sense.

[BeeKnees]

Interesting how your source skips the suspected involvement in Hitler's assassination attempt, his sidelining post that attempt as not trustworthy to the Nazis and his involvement in the Nuremberg trials.

Bottom line is he was a professional soldier since WW1 and remained as such throughout his career.

I wonder which Russian soldiers will be put on trial for this once their invasion attempt if Ukraine is over ?

a man who helped plan and execute his invasion of neighboring countries which directly led to the deaths of millions of people

[zenith]

there are still plenty of uninhabited islands off the pacific coast here (bc and alaska), i've often imagined people that should be released into the wild there. they can wear their most formal/ceremonial outfits.

[Neven]

But as Florifulgurator says in the War thread, one should just forget about history (to make it easier to repeat it, I guess). Nazi ideology, no big deal.

Of course you can't understand what I meant. It was e.g. about modern Poland forgetting about the massacres perpetrated by Ukrainians in a time long gone by. -- Unlike you I do indeed care about accurate details of history. Much of that you have censored here. I do care in order to "forget" about it for the sake of a peaceful cooperation of the humanity of today. Obviously such thinking is alien to you. I prefer living in the present and caring about the future. That requires knowing history as well as being able to forget about it.

You are instead abusing a simplistic Russian black-white narrative of history to excuse the repeat of history (imperialist war) in new clothing today. That narrative you should indeed forget seriously, in the sense you chose to misinterpret me. Stop wasting your brain on simplistic un-real non-sense.

Forget about what Polish politicians are saying. They're sucking Washington and EU c**k. Lots of Poles aren't forgetting about the massacres, especially since Ukraine has never officially apologized for them, (neo-)Nazi ideology is openly practised in Ukraine, with plenty of monuments and streets named in honour of the leaders who are directly responsible for those massacres of Poles (and Jews, Gypsies, Russians and Ukrainians).

Actually, the serious problem that Ukraine has with Nazi and neo-Nazi ideology stems from 'not forgetting', still hating the Russians and wanting to cleanse the nation of anything Russian (not very practical when there's a 20% ethnic minority, and almost the entire country speaks Russian).

So, again, you're selective and inconsistent, just as with your morals. It's not about 'forgetting', it's about coming to a higher understanding of how the cycle of violence works, how the majority can be manipulated into war by a small group. You, BeeKnees and others like you are completely failing in this regard, by unconditionally picking a side that is not very different from the other side, uncritically parroting propaganda to the point that you're whitewashing Nazi stuff. You do exactly what the small group wants.

Now, with the conflict in Palestine, you'll condemn everything and say: 'Both Hamas and Israel are to blame, and are doing horrible things that perpetuate the cycle of violence'. But the conflict in Ukraine is unprovoked and entirely to be blamed on the Russians, and so you agree with keeping the war going by sending weapons and money to a corrupt, failed and dysfunctional Ukraine.

Why don't you 'forget' about what everybody did leading up to the conflict in Ukraine and think of pragmatic ways to get to a cessation of hostilities? Because you actually enjoy being a part of the cycle of violence. You need an enemy to fight.

Nazis? No big deal. As long as they're fighting and killing the imperial Mongol hordes from the East, with their long noses and greedy little fingers.

[zenith]

trudeau has a legion of problems these days: from two corruption investigations; to a federal judge ruling that invoking the emergencies act was illegal; to housing prices that are wildly unaffordable; to grocery prices through the roof; to crime exploding; to homelessness and drug overdoses, etc. ... and now it's revealed that his office sent an invitation to the nazi they celebrated in parliament to attend a rally prior to his appearance in parliament. the speaker of the house was blamed, and stepped down, for inviting the nazi to parliament. the canadian ukrainian congress (which freeland is/was a member of) was blamed and now the chickens have come home to roost in coop trudeau and he refuses, as always, to take any responsibility.

Liberal organizer dismayed over PMO inviting Nazi veteran to Zelenskyy rally | Canada Tonight


these two (in the video) are conservatives but they're not of the crazed variety. it doesn't look like trudeau has long now, his coalition partner (singh) is leveraging a pharmacare issue to strongarm trudeau and he's getting beat up on all sorts of issues in question period everyday by the opposition conservatives. when first poilievre (conservative leader) and then lantsman (she's a fierce jewish conservative mp) called trudeau out about the nazi invite and his hypocrisy trudeau wound up leaving question period in the house.

The END GAME for Trudeau has BEGUN

[Neven]

Maria Zakharova writes:

Why does Germany support Zelensky's Nazi regime? Because the descendants of the Nazis are in power in Germany

On May 6, 2021, during a conference at the Atlantic Council (a think tank in Washington), German Foreign Minister Baerbock said: “The border with Poland runs along the Oder River, and my grandfather fought on this river, on this border, somewhere in the winter 1945. And in 2004 I stood on this bridge, which, of course, was restored between Poland and Germany, when Joschka Fischer, as German Foreign Minister, again celebrated the reunification of Europe together with his colleague from the Polish side.”

In June 2021, in her first book, she clarified: “At this moment [the accession of ten states to the EU on May 1, 2004, including Poland, approx. ed.] I thought about my grandfather Waldemar Baerbock, who was a Wehrmacht officer in the anti-aircraft gun repair unit and arrived on the eastern side of Frankfurt an der Oder during the retreat in January 1945.”

Not only Annalena decided to clarify this matyer, but also the publication “Bunte”, publishing excerpts from the Wehrmacht dossier on her grandfather, Waldemar Baerbock (1913-2016). And it notes that he was an ardent supporter of the Nazis. Moreover, Colonel Baerbock was “an unconditional National Socialist” , “completely rooted in National Socialism.” He carefully read Hitler's book Mein Kampf several times and "fully adhered to the principles of National Socialism." In 1944, he was to be awarded the War Merit Cross with Swords, one of the most prestigious Nazi decorations, given for “special meritorious service under enemy fire or for special merit during hostilities.”

The German Foreign Ministry rushed to defend Annalena, a granddaughter who admired her Nazi grandfather, and promptly provided the press with an answer: “The Foreign Minister was not familiar with the documents.”

Several days have passed, and Baerbock herself continues to remain silent. But the Bild publication published a whole list of famous people who came to her “aid” and admitted to the Nazi past of their ancestors:

- Prime Minister of Saxony-Anhalt Rainer Haseloff said that his father served in the Wehrmacht and was captured in 1944 in northern France. Mother fled Silesia at age 14;

- Football player Lothar Matthäus remembered that one of his grandfathers served in the Wehrmacht and died during the war, and the other fled from Silesia after the war;

- Lawyer Gerhard Rahn admitted that his father’s parents were members of the NSDAP;

- Actor Francis Fulton-Smith said that his grandfather served in the Wehrmacht and was captured in Ukraine in 1944;

- Politician Dorothea Baer spoke about her grandfather, who served in the Wehrmacht and was captured in Northern Italy;

- Historian Stefan Brauburger pointed out that many “German veterans” until the 1990s refused to talk about the past, even with their families.

The mask is coming off...

[Rodius]

Maria Zakharova writes:

Why does Germany support Zelensky's Nazi regime? Because the descendants of the Nazis are in power in Germany

On May 6, 2021, during a conference at the Atlantic Council (a think tank in Washington), German Foreign Minister Baerbock said: “The border with Poland runs along the Oder River, and my grandfather fought on this river, on this border, somewhere in the winter 1945. And in 2004 I stood on this bridge, which, of course, was restored between Poland and Germany, when Joschka Fischer, as German Foreign Minister, again celebrated the reunification of Europe together with his colleague from the Polish side.”

In June 2021, in her first book, she clarified: “At this moment [the accession of ten states to the EU on May 1, 2004, including Poland, approx. ed.] I thought about my grandfather Waldemar Baerbock, who was a Wehrmacht officer in the anti-aircraft gun repair unit and arrived on the eastern side of Frankfurt an der Oder during the retreat in January 1945.”

Not only Annalena decided to clarify this matyer, but also the publication “Bunte”, publishing excerpts from the Wehrmacht dossier on her grandfather, Waldemar Baerbock (1913-2016). And it notes that he was an ardent supporter of the Nazis. Moreover, Colonel Baerbock was “an unconditional National Socialist” , “completely rooted in National Socialism.” He carefully read Hitler's book Mein Kampf several times and "fully adhered to the principles of National Socialism." In 1944, he was to be awarded the War Merit Cross with Swords, one of the most prestigious Nazi decorations, given for “special meritorious service under enemy fire or for special merit during hostilities.”

The German Foreign Ministry rushed to defend Annalena, a granddaughter who admired her Nazi grandfather, and promptly provided the press with an answer: “The Foreign Minister was not familiar with the documents.”

Several days have passed, and Baerbock herself continues to remain silent. But the Bild publication published a whole list of famous people who came to her “aid” and admitted to the Nazi past of their ancestors:

- Prime Minister of Saxony-Anhalt Rainer Haseloff said that his father served in the Wehrmacht and was captured in 1944 in northern France. Mother fled Silesia at age 14;

- Football player Lothar Matthäus remembered that one of his grandfathers served in the Wehrmacht and died during the war, and the other fled from Silesia after the war;

- Lawyer Gerhard Rahn admitted that his father’s parents were members of the NSDAP;

- Actor Francis Fulton-Smith said that his grandfather served in the Wehrmacht and was captured in Ukraine in 1944;

- Politician Dorothea Baer spoke about her grandfather, who served in the Wehrmacht and was captured in Northern Italy;

- Historian Stefan Brauburger pointed out that many “German veterans” until the 1990s refused to talk about the past, even with their families.

The mask is coming off...

Just playing devils advocate a here.....

Given Germany was run by nazi through WW2 and a lot of people worked for that Govt and military machine, it stands to reason that those who survived the war would have families when it was over with.

That means A LOT of German people today are descendants of people in the Nazi party and military machine.
You cant pick your family.

Saying the problem of Nazism in Germany (or anywhere) is due to family ties is a stretch to a point. I am sure it plays a part, but I doubt it is significant.

[Neven]

Just playing devils advocate a here.....

Given Germany was run by nazi through WW2 and a lot of people worked for that Govt and military machine, it stands to reason that those who survived the war would have families when it was over with.

That means A LOT of German people today are descendants of people in the Nazi party and military machine.
You cant pick your family.

It depends, in large part, how one talks about their Nazi ancestors. Look at Bärbocks quotes. Every time something good happens on a EU-level, she says she's reminded of her Nazi grandfather. Why would you say that?

Saying the problem of Nazism in Germany (or anywhere) is due to family ties is a stretch to a point. I am sure it plays a part, but I doubt it is significant.

The Nazis never really lost the war. They were integrated into the West. Some were shipped to the US and Canada for their knowledge or usefulness as an intelligence asset in the Cold War (thousands of Ukrainian Nazis, one of whom recently received a standing ovation in the Canadian parliament), but a lot of them remained at home and received high political, administrative or business posts.  I never realised all this until I started reading about the Rote Armee Fraktion.

The great irony is that there are currently attempts to outlaw German political parties - which is by definition authoritarian/fascist - under the argument that they are 'extreme right'. But Nazism never left Germany and is now made salonfähig under a different name, because people are too stupid, especially the highly educated ones, to assess the similarities and differences.

[zenith]

The Nazis never really lost the war. They were integrated into the West. Some were shipped to the US and Canada for their knowledge or usefulness as an intelligence asset in the Cold War (thousands of Ukrainian Nazis, one of whom recently received a standing ovation in the Canadian parliament), but a lot of them remained at home and received high political, administrative or business posts.  I never realised all this until I started reading about the Rote Armee Fraktion.

there were a lot of ukrainians that immigrated to canada as a result of the communist revolution, long before WWII. farming the canadian prairie is a lot like the old country, during soviet times there were more ukrainian churches in canada than in ukraine. it's not surprising that britain sent captured ukrainian nazis to canada.

prior to WWII something like 50% of americans were of german descent, there were even nazi rallies in madison sq. gardens new york. there were plenty of nazi supporters among the british elite as well, the flight of rudolf hess has to count as one of the stranger events of the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hess

then there was the vichy government in france. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Vichy_France#:~:text=The%20Vichy%20government%20led%20by,North%20Africa%20under%20Operation%20Torch.

on a wider note it's clear that humans have a soft spot in our ape brain for authoritarians. the founding fathers of the united states didn't expect the republic to survive for basically that reason and they weren't wrong, the republic is basically a corpse - long live the empire!

after WWII there were nazis with huge dueling scars on their faces wandering around the upper echelons of american power. it's hard not to notice a dueling scar, which was a nazi symbol of prestige.
Joe Rogan | The Harsh Truths of Operation Paperclip (NASA & Nazi's) w/Annie Jacobsen

[zenith]

then there's the enduring notion that the european union had nazi roots. i don't have a great source specifically but a basic search provides a wide range to peruse.
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+european+union+nazi+roots&oq=the+european+union+nazi+roots&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCjIwNjkzajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#ip=1

[zenith]

the bilderberg group was founded by Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, a member of the nazi party. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Meeting

the seed of the european union was the benelux union, if memory serves me correctly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux

anyway, it's been years since i read up on that stuff and i can't be bothered now but if someone else is inclined there's some things to pursue.

[Ranman99]

Yes, the history of Bilderberg, the Trilateral Commission and many more is fascinating. It all can be summarized as power and its various gangs and clubs and you and I aren't in them ;-)

Various factions with their perhaps greater than the average, i.e. more than their quota of 10% of psycho, narcissists and sociopaths, just due to the cream rising to the top.

When we discuss the long-term overview from 50,000 feet of the rise of modern industrial civilisations as they popped out of the dark ages into the current age, this cream covered the surface. Even well-meaning royalty that actually believed their fate was God-given providence to rule the masses is no different in the fact that they are completely deluded. How could it be that billions of people still trust other people just because of the type and colour of their hats and costumes? How much doctrine from eons ago is still built into the civilization machine? If not Nazis, Kings, Presidents, PMs, popes, dahlia lamas, master this and Zen bloke, what else will folks follow like lemmings? What is the origin of the modern business suit and tie costume, and why would I have found wearing one so damned important? ;-)

That speaks very highly to the situation we find ourselves in. In my book Homo Sapiens does not mean wise man, in general, it means Monkey that believes its memory-based, semaphore-based stories. i.e. it's BS. I'm generalising of course things are for more "leaning towards Infinity".

John Lennon summed it up pretty well in Working Class Hero.

[Neven]

Brian Berletic from The New Atlas on Telegram:

CNN Features Nazi Wolfsangel in Thumbnail for Ukraine Propaganda + Features Footage of Neo-Nazi Azov with Nazi Watermark...

▪️The Western media continues to label Nazism in Ukraine as "Russian propaganda," but the most compelling evidence is seen almost daily in the West's own reporting;

▪️This CNN video's YouTube thumbnail features the Nazi wolfsangel on a Ukrainian soldier's helmet;

▪️The same video (https://youtu.be/ndod_uYWBVg?si=_gvMYNWCo7F3XG6T) features footage taken by the Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion (aka 3rd Assault Brigade) using a simplified Nazi wolfsangel as a watermark;

▪️Are Western media editors simply unaware of this, or are there so many Nazi symbols editors can only catch the most obvious?

[Neven]

I recently saw a picture of Zaluzhny wearing a T-shirt from a West Ukrainian neo-Nazi metal band called Sokyra Peruna (lots of videos up on YouTube with dubious lyrics and titles such as 'Heroes of my Race'). Reminded me of the name of that Australian YouTube vlogger that SteveMDFP used to quote in the War-thread.

Maybe it's a fake, but probably not, given that Zaluzhny has posed for pictures with OUN flags and photos of Bandera in the background before. I hope that Zaluzhny will at some point organise a Prigozhin-style rebellion and this will help to separate the neo-Nazi wheat from the chaff.

[Neven]

Kit Klarenberg at The Grayzone:

Meet Centuria, Ukraine’s Western-trained neo-Nazi army



A uniquely Ukrainian strain of Neo-Nazism is spreading throughout Europe, which openly advocates violence against minorities while seeking new recruits. With Kiev’s army collapsing and a narrative of Western betrayal gaining currency, the horror inflicted on residents of Donbas for a decade could very soon be coming to a city near you.

Centuria, an ultra-violent Ukrainian Neo-Nazi faction, has cemented itself in six cities across Germany, and is seeking to expand its local presence. According to Junge Welt, a Berlin-based Marxist daily, the Nazi organization’s growth has been “unhindered by local security services.”

Junge Welt traces Centuria’s origins to an August 2020 Neo-Nazi summit “at the edge of a forest near Kiev.” There, an ultranationalist named Igor “Tcherkas” Mikhailenko demanded the “hundreds of mostly masked vigilante fighters present,” who were members Kiev’s fascistic National Militia, “make sacrifices for the idea of ‘Greater Ukraine.’” As the former head of the Neo-Nazi Patriot of Ukraine’s Kharkiv division, and commander of the state sponsored Azov Battalion from 2014 to 2015, Mikhailenko has professed a desire to “destroy everything anti-Ukrainian.”

Junge Welt reports that since 2017, the National Militia “had been practicing brutal vigilante justice” throughout Ukraine, including “tyrannizing the LGBTQ scene.” Centuria was subsequently blamed for a terrifying November 2021 attack on a gay nightclub in Kiev, in which its operatives assaulted revelers with truncheons and pepper spray.

Now the same Neo-Nazi sect “has an offshoot in Germany,” Junge Welt revealed. On August 24 2023, the 32nd anniversary of Ukraine’s independence, Centuria convened a “nationalist rally” in the central city of Magdeburg, “unmolested by Antifa and critical media reporting.”

Participants proudly posed with the flag of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) founded by World War II-era Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera. Centuria boasted at the time on Telegram, “although Ukrainian youth are not in their homeland, they are starting to unite.” Meanwhile, they threatened the “enemies” of their country with “hellish storm,” pledging that “Ukrainian emigrants” would not “forget their national identity for a few hundred euros.”

Junge Welt reports that Centuria “is currently raising funds for its parent organization’s combat unit,” which is commanded by Andriy Biletsky – the Azov Battalion founder who infamously stated in 2014 that the Ukrainian nation’s mission was to “lead the white races of the world in a final crusade… against Semite-led Untermenschen.” At home, Centuria’s members express similar attitudes towards Muslims, Africans, and gays, whom they refer to, respectively, as the “German Caliphate,” “black rapists,” and “pedophiles.”

Now, the group’s members are working hard to pass their ideological vision down to future racists across the continent. “We are creating a new generation of heroes!” Centuria’s Telegram channel boasts. Accordingly, the neo-Nazi group has been arranging hiking trips to Germany’s Harz mountains with a Ukrainian nationalist scout association called Plast. This outfit opened chapters across the Western world beginning in the 1950s, in response to the Soviet Union’s hounding of fascists and nationalists. Besides receiving ideological indoctrination, Plast’s youthful members may have the opportunity to improve their physical fitness and receive military training. As Centuria ominously declares on Telegram, “free people have weapons.”


Opening ceremonies at the Lithuanian camp “Iskra” with Plast youth in an apparent “scout’s honor” salute, 2022

As Washington gradually backs away from its sponsorship of Ukraine’s war with Russia, it has begun ceding responsibility for the military campaign’s management – and likely failure – to Berlin. If US arms shipments continue to dwindle, Germany will become Kiev’s chief supplier of weapons. And the Germans may find that saying “no” to Ukraine could result in some nasty surprises.

Unlike the US, Germany does not enjoy an ocean-length buffer between itself and the fascistic proxy warriors it sponsors in Ukraine. After Ukraine’s much-hyped counteroffensive finally collapsed in late 2023, its president, Volodymyr Zelensky, grumbled a veiled threat during an interview with the Economist: “There is no way of predicting how the millions of Ukrainian refugees in European countries would react to their country being abandoned.”

While Ukrainians have generally “behaved well” and are “very grateful” to those who sheltered them, it would not be a “good story” for Europe if it were to “drive these people into a corner,” Zelensky remarked to the outlet.

To understand how more radical elements of a spent proxy force could turn their guns on the Western governments that armed them, one need only look at the events of September 11, 2001.

The rest of the article is about western backing of these Ukrainian neo-Nazi groups. All of this was common knowledge before February 2022. This is going to cause a lot of trouble in Europe in the future.

[zenith]

"The Grayzone's Aaron Mate and Max Blumenthal cover the shocking spectacle of the British parliament and former PM Boris Johnson hosting soldiers from Ukraine's once-sanctioned neo-Nazi Azov Brigade and celebrating them as "heroes.""

UK parliament fetes Ukrainian neo-Nazis

[Neven]

I saw this truly insane stuff, but didn't post it because I'm travelling. It's almost as crazy and morally depraved as the Canadian Nazi ovation.

[zenith]

in a way it's worse as we already had that trudeau spectacle and the british just said 'fuck it' and doubled down. they just don't care.

[zenith]

apparently the british are worried about italian fascists as they cuddle with ukrainian and israeli fascism in a warm bed.

Fascism: Is Italy's government allowing the past to live on? | BBC News

[Neven]

I don't know how I managed to overlook it, or maybe I had forgotten about it, but this Substack is a fantastic resource on everything related to the history and present of (West) Ukrainian (neo)Nazi ideology. I might just read all of it.

[morganism]

What is behind Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s trip to Utah?

(...)
While in Utah, Zelenskyy met with both Democratic and Republican governors attending the conference, Utah elected officials, business executives and leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

“During a private meeting, the Ukrainian president spoke with a church delegation led by Elder Quentin L. Cook of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. They discussed the church’s presence in Ukraine and humanitarian assistance throughout the region,” said Irene Caso, church spokesperson.

Utah Senate President Stuart Adams, who led a trade and humanitarian mission to Ukraine in May 2023, including a meeting with Zelenskyy said, the Ukrainian president and state leaders engaged in constructive discussions, focused on enhancing collaboration across humanitarian efforts, business and trade for the mutual benefit of Utah and Ukraine.
(snip)
Zelenskyy, who has not traveled in the United States outside Washington, D.C., New York and California, arrived Thursday night and will spend most of Friday in Utah. Along with his wife Olena Zelenska, 35 high-ranking Ukrainian government officials accompanied him.

While in Utah, Zelenskyy met with both Democratic and Republican governors attending the conference, Utah elected officials, business executives and leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

“During a private meeting, the Ukrainian president spoke with a church delegation led by Elder Quentin L. Cook of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. They discussed the church’s presence in Ukraine and humanitarian assistance throughout the region,” said Irene Caso, church spokesperson.

Utah Senate President Stuart Adams, who led a trade and humanitarian mission to Ukraine in May 2023, including a meeting with Zelenskyy said, the Ukrainian president and state leaders engaged in constructive discussions, focused on enhancing collaboration across humanitarian efforts, business and trade for the mutual benefit of Utah and Ukraine.
(snip)
Freedman, who received the Ukrainian Order of Merit award from Zelenskyy last year, said it was “unbelievable” that he accepted the invitation.

“It’s a very impressive delegation this week in Washington, D.C., and they’re adding this stop in Salt Lake City,” he said. “Had we gotten one of these members of the delegation, we would have been thrilled. To have them all is outstanding.”
(snip)
On Friday, Zelenskyy will witness Cox and Markarova signing a sister-state relationship between Utah and Kyiv Oblast, the Ukrainian province surrounding the capital city of Kyiv. Utah Senate President Stuart Adams and Utah House Speaker Mike Schultz will also be there. Markarova attended the One Utah Summit, Cox’s gathering of business leaders designed to celebrate Utah’s achievements, provide an economic update, and connect the state’s government and business community, in April.

“That is significant as we have very few sister-state relationships. It’s a strong statement of support,” Freedman said.

Also Friday, Freedman said, Ukraine’s first lady will meet with Utah philanthropists to raise funds and humanitarian aid for the country’s most pressing causes, specifically to help vulnerable children. Zelenska’s priorities include housing orphaned children, providing schools with laptops and other supplies and nutrition.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2024/07/12/volodymyr-zelenskyy-ukraine-utah-national-governors/

[Neven]

How does this relate to the topic? Are these people in the US the descendants of the WW2 freedom fighters who valiantly resisted the Red Army?

[morganism]

“That is significant as we have very few sister-state relationships. It’s a strong statement of support,” Freedman said.

(the Red Army with all the USA support behind it? Money, trucks, boots and tanks?)

Interesting they go to the Church and the States for support when the US Gov stalls on their treaty required support.

[Neven]

So, it's off-topic then. Just in case, I'll check that this Freedman isn't the descendant of some SS Galizien officer. The name is similar to that of Canadian foreign affairs minister Chrystia Freeland, the grandfather of whom was known to be a Nazi collaborator.

I know it doesn't matter to you, but I was taught that Nazism was a bad thing. Or rather, is a bad thing, as the Nazis never went away.

[morganism]

(this just popped up again in a feed, story from 1941 in the Harpers archive)

Who Goes Nazi?
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by Dorothy Thompson

It is an interesting and somewhat macabre parlor game to play at a large gathering of one’s acquaintances: to speculate who in a showdown would go Nazi. By now, I think I know. I have gone through the experience many times—in Germany, in Austria, and in France. I have come to know the types: the born Nazis, the Nazis whom democracy itself has created, the certain-to-be fellow-travelers. And I also know those who never, under any conceivable circumstances, would become Nazis.

It is preposterous to think that they are divided by any racial characteristics. Germans may be more susceptible to Nazism than most people, but I doubt it. Jews are barred out, but it is an arbitrary ruling. I know lots of Jews who are born Nazis and many others who would heil Hitler tomorrow morning if given a chance. There are Jews who have repudiated their own ancestors in order to become “Honorary Aryans and Nazis”; there are full-blooded Jews who have enthusiastically entered Hitler’s secret service. Nazism has nothing to do with race and nationality. It appeals to a certain type of mind.

It is also, to an immense extent, the disease of a generation—the generation which was either young or unborn at the end of the last war. This is as true of Englishmen, Frenchmen, and Americans as of Germans. It is the disease of the so-called “lost generation.”
(more)

https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/

(oops, Neven, the zelenski post was supposed to go in a different thread, page must not have finished)