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dnem

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #150 on: December 15, 2019, 01:41:48 PM »
Nanning, understanding that pre-industrial civilizations were already imbued with the human tendency to control and manipulate their environment to help them thrive really has little to do with whether or not they are "better" than us.  They are us, just before industrial society.  No one disputes that smaller numbers of humans living in a pre-industrial manner had a lighter footprint on the planet. But they were  very smart animals looking to gain whatever advantage they could to thrive, grow and increase their numbers.  It's what animals do. 

El Cid

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #151 on: December 15, 2019, 01:57:19 PM »
Hypothetical situation:
"I can't handle this. It must not be true that only civilisation is destroying all the forests, all life. I must find ways to water down all the good talk about those wild savages. To convince them that the savages are not better than us! Aarrgg. CAN'T be better than us. Impossible! I must convince them that us is all there is. Aaarrgg! it can't be trueee!"
hypothetical situation:

"Oh no! It can't be! I want to believe that there truly was a Golden Age, when man and all the beasts of this world lived in harmony in the Garden of Eden. What is this guy saying? He is destroying my butterfly-filled dreams! I know that modern industrial civilization is evil, and it was perfect during the great old days, when half of babies died before age 5 and expected lifespan was 35 years at most. Oh yes, those were the days. I won't let anyone spoil the glorious past when there still was balance in the Force!"

nanning

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #152 on: December 15, 2019, 05:11:51 PM »
Quote from: dnem
They are us, just before industrial society
Sorry dnem but I strongly disagree. "us" was still the same violent conquering civilisation. From the cancerous mediterranian tribe that spread all over Europe, conquering everything with mass violence. "They" are not like that. All historic "They"'s were conquered by civlisation and saw their culture erased. Living nature degraded.
The Amazon indiginous nature tribes can tell you all about the difference: "We only eat when everyone has something to eat".

This video is about the San tribes from southern Africa and even though the narrator wears 'civilisation-glasses', there's loads of really very good information. I think I got it from this forum. Many thanks to the poster.
(27m06)
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

Juan C. García

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #153 on: December 20, 2019, 08:38:53 PM »
Quote
Top scientists warn of an Amazon ‘tipping point”

Continued deforestation and other fast-moving changes in the Amazon threaten to turn parts of the rainforest into savanna, devastate wildlife and release billions of tons carbon into the atmosphere, two renowned experts warned Friday.

“The precious Amazon is teetering on the edge of functional destruction and, with it, so are we,” Thomas Lovejoy of George Mason University and Carlos Nobre of the University of Sao Paulo in Brazil, both of whom have studied the world’s largest rainforest for decades, wrote in an editorial in the journal Science Advances. “Today, we stand exactly in a moment of destiny: The tipping point is here, it is now.”

Combined with recent news that the Arctic permafrost may be beginning to fill the atmosphere with greenhouse gases, and that Greenland’s ice sheet is melting at an accelerating pace, it’s the latest hint that important parts of the climate system may be moving toward irreversible changes at a pace that defies earlier predictions.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/top-scientists-warn-of-an-amazon-tipping-point/2019/12/20/9c9be954-233e-11ea-bed5-880264cc91a9_story.html?utm_campaign=news_alert_revere&utm_medium=email&utm_source=alert&wpisrc=al_news__alert-hse--alert-national&wpmk=1
Which is the best answer to Sep-2012 ASI lost (compared to 1979-2000)?
50% [NSIDC Extent] or
73% [PIOMAS Volume]

Volume is harder to measure than extent, but 3-dimensional space is real, 2D's hide ~50% thickness gone.
-> IPCC/NSIDC trends [based on extent] underestimate the real speed of ASI lost.

kassy

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #154 on: December 21, 2019, 05:39:03 PM »
Amazon Forest Regrows Much Slower Than Previously Thought

The regrowth of Amazonian forests following deforestation could be much slower than previously thought, a new study shows.

The findings made significant impacts on global climate change predictions due to the ability of secondary forests to ingest carbon from the atmosphere. The study, which monitored forest regrowth over 20 years, shows that global climate change, and therefore the broader loss of forests, might be hampering regrowth within the Amazon.

Secondary forests are a crucial tool in combatting human-caused global climate change by taking large amounts of carbon from the atmosphere. However, the examined secondary forests held only 40 percent of the carbon in forests that had not been disrupted by human interactions. If current trends continue, it'll take more than a century for the woods to completely recover, meaning their ability to assist in fighting global climate change are vastly overestimated.

 The study, published within the journal Ecology, also shows that secondary forests take less carbon from the atmosphere during droughts. Yet, global climate change is increasing the number of drought-years within the Amazon.

continues on:
https://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/43012/20191221/amazon-forest-regrows-much-slower-previously-thought.htm
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #155 on: December 23, 2019, 05:34:22 PM »
Elon Musk-Backed Tree-Planting Campaign Meets $20 Million Goal
Quote
Team Trees
In October, YouTuber Jimmy “MrBeast” Donaldson publicly launched Team Trees, a campaign to raise enough money to plant 20 million trees at a dollar a pop(lar).

Within days, the campaign secured a million dollar pledge from Tesla CEO Elon Musk, which was soon followed by a pledge of a million and one dollars from Shopify CEO Tobi Lütke.

Now, less than two months later, the tree-planting campaign has announced that it’s officially surpassed its $20 million fundraising goal.

Global Growth
According to the Team Trees FAQ page, the Arbor Day Foundation will oversee the planting of the trees, which will begin in January 2020 and wrap up no later than December 2022.

“Due to the sheer volume of trees planted (20 million), they will be planted in a variety of forests on public and private lands in areas of great need,” Team Trees wrote, adding that the aim is to “plant trees on every continent not named Antarctica!” ...
https://futurism.com/the-byte/elon-musk-tree-planting-meets-goal
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

sidd

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #156 on: December 27, 2019, 10:48:27 PM »
Restore natural forests to sequester carbon: monocrop plantations are no answer

"The regular harvesting and clearing of plantations releases stored CO2 back into the atmosphere every 10–20 years. By contrast, natural forests continue to sequester carbon for many decades[4]."

"To combat climate change, the most effective place to plant trees is in the tropics and subtropics"



PDF version
Two workers handle tree saplings being grown to reforest burned areas of Indonesia

Reforesting of burnt areas in Kalimantan province, Indonesia.Credit: Kadir van Lohuizen/NOOR/eyevine

Keeping global warming below 1.5 °C to avoid dangerous climate change1 requires the removal of vast amounts of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, as well as drastic cuts in emissions. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) suggests that around 730 billion tonnes of CO2 (730 petagrams of CO2, or 199 petagrams of carbon, Pg C) must be taken out of the atmosphere by the end of this century2. That is equivalent to all the CO2 emitted by the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany and China since the Industrial Revolution. No one knows how to capture so much CO2.

Forests must play a part. Locking up carbon in ecosystems is proven, safe and often affordable3. Increasing tree cover has other benefits, from protecting biodiversity to managing water and creating jobs.

The IPCC suggests that boosting the total area of the world’s forests, woodlands and woody savannahs could store around one-quarter of the atmospheric carbon necessary to limit global warming to 1.5 °C above pre-industrial levels2. In the near term, this means adding up to 24 million hectares (Mha) of forest every year from now until 2030.

Policymakers are sowing the seeds. For example, in 2011, the German government and the International Union for Conservation of Nature launched the Bonn Challenge, which aims to restore 350 Mha of forest by 2030. Under this initiative and others, 43 countries across the tropics and subtropics where trees grow quickly, including Brazil, India and China, have committed nearly 300 Mha of degraded land (see Supplementary Information, Table S1). That’s encouraging.

But will this policy work? Here we show that, under current plans, it will not. A closer look at countries’ reports reveals that almost half of the pledged area is set to become plantations of commercial trees (see Table S1). Although these can support local economies, plantations are much poorer at storing carbon than are natural forests, which develop with little or no disturbance from humans. The regular harvesting and clearing of plantations releases stored CO2 back into the atmosphere every 10–20 years. By contrast, natural forests continue to sequester carbon for many decades4.

To stem global warming, deforestation must stop. And restoration programmes worldwide should return all degraded lands to natural forests — and protect them. More carbon must be stored on land, while recognizing competing pressures to deliver food, fuel, fodder and fibre.

We call on the restoration community, forestry experts and policymakers to prioritize the regeneration of natural forests over other types of tree planting — by allowing disturbed lands to recover to their previous high-carbon state. This will entail tightening definitions, transparently reporting plans and outcomes and clearly stating the trade-offs between different uses of land.
Misdirected efforts

To combat climate change, the most effective place to plant trees is in the tropics and subtropics — this is where most forest-restoration commitments are found. Trees grow and take up carbon quickly near the Equator, and land is relatively cheap and available (see go.nature.com/2ogmbmz and ‘Restoration potential’). Establishing forests has little effect on the albedo (reflectivity) of the land surface, unlike at high latitudes, where trees obscure snow that would otherwise reflect solar energy and help to cool the planet. Well-managed forests can also help to alleviate poverty in low-income regions, as well as conserve biodiversity and support the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals — notably, goals 1 (no poverty), 6 (clean water), 11 (sustainable communities), 13 (climate action) and 15 (life on land).

Source: https://go.nature.com/2ogmbmz

"So far, just over half (24) of the countries in the Bonn Challenge and other schemes have published detailed restoration plans, covering two-thirds of the total pledged area (Table S1). Nations are following three main approaches. First, degraded and abandoned agricultural land will be left to return to natural forest on its own. Second, marginal agricultural lands are to be converted into plantations of valuable trees, such as Eucalyptus for paper or Hevea braziliensis for rubber. Third is agroforestry, which involves growing crops and useful trees together."

"Natural regeneration is the cheapest and technically easiest option. Just over one-third (34%) of the total area allocated is to be managed in this way. Protecting land from fire and other human disturbances allows trees to return and forests to flourish, building carbon stocks rapidly to reach the level of a mature forest in roughly 70 years [4]"

"plantations are the most popular restoration plan: 45% of all commitments involve planting vast monocultures of trees as profitable enterprises. "

"plantations hold little more carbon, on average, than the land cleared to plant them. Clearance releases carbon, followed by rapid uptake by fast-growing trees ... But after such trees are harvested and the land is cleared for replanting — typically once a decade — the carbon is released again by the decomposition of plantation waste and products "

"if the entire 350 Mha is given over to natural forests, they would store an additional 42 Pg C by 2100 (see ‘Which strategy?’). Giving the same area exclusively to plantations would sequester just 1 Pg C or, if used only for agroforestry, 7 Pg C. Furthermore, we find, on average, that natural forests are 6 times better than agroforestry and 40 times better than plantations at storing carbon (sequestering 12, 1.9 and 0.3 Pg C per 100 Mha by 2100, respectively"

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01026-8

sidd

kassy

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #157 on: December 31, 2019, 10:15:11 AM »
Illegal tin mining leaves trail of ruin in protected Brazilian rainforest


Floresta Nacional de Altamira (Flona de Altamira) spans some 724,965 hectares in the state of Pará, and is home to a rich diversity of plants and animals, including several species threatened with extinction.
Recently, an influx of illegal mining has led to rampant deforestation and the sullying of rivers. The miners are targeting the mineral cassiterite, the main ore of tin. Illegal ranching and road construction are also causing deforestation in Flona de Altamira.

...

Like in much of Brazil, the mining fever gripping Flona de Altamira has its roots in the broader development of the Amazon region in the 1970s and 1980s. The construction of the BR-163, a behemoth highway stretching thousands of kilometers from the south of Brazil through the heart of the Amazon Basin, served as a catalyst: the eventual paving of the road in the 1990s brought a flood of people scouring the unexplored region for gold and other minerals.

...

But unlike gold mining, extracting tin ore is less costly and difficult, making the activity particularly attractive to speculators, according to local sources. Illegal miners – many of whom are impoverished, illiterate men – have flocked to Flona de Altamira with the hopes of striking it rich.

Across the Brazilian Amazon, there are more than 450 illegal mines in the Brazilian Amazon, according to the Rede Amazónica de Información Socioambiental Georreferenciada (RAISG), a consortium of civil society organizations. Thousands of illegal miners toil away at these sites, extracting resources like tin, gold and nickel.

...

In Flona de Altamira, local sources point to the surge in mining activity as a key contributor to the stark deterioration in the water quality of Rio Aruri.

While some tin ore can be found in ground rock, most easily accessible deposits are concentrated in streams and along river banks. When forest and topsoil are removed from shorelines for mineral extraction, soil and mining waste run unobstructed directly into the river when it rains.

Tin ore mines also use water from nearby rivers for hydraulic extraction and then dispose of the waste in mining ponds and tailings dams nearby. Research has linked highly toxic tin ore waste stored in tailings dams to dramatic pollution of soil, vegetation, surface water and groundwater.

In the case of gold mining, where mercury is often used in the extraction process, the impact on human and animal health can be devastating.

Full details + pictures on:
https://news.mongabay.com/2019/12/illegal-tin-mining-leaves-trail-of-ruin-in-protected-brazilian-rainforest/
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sidd

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #158 on: January 03, 2020, 08:44:38 AM »
Laudato si : theology in forests

To see the world in a grain of sand and heaven in a wild flower, indeed.

https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/cathedral-not-made-hands

sidd

Aporia_filia

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #159 on: January 03, 2020, 11:44:55 AM »
Thanks a lot Sidd. I take communion with all it says, and you know I'm an atheist.
This is why I decided living in an old forest trying to be the less disturbing animal in it. (Rather difficult!)

Ranman99

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #160 on: January 03, 2020, 01:55:36 PM »
Very noble (as a concept). It is a way. It is all connected right? It is not a metaphysical thing so much as just the way it is all connected. We could work in that but as a herd we keep barreling for the cliff.

What a human thinks about himself or herself is just what they think and most of that is not so much thinking like when you write it down and puzzle it out over a few days. Like a meta stream of random flotsam and jetsam on top or among what is. Memory is cool. The human creature uses a lot of different types of memory. The type we seemingly see / hear with our awareness is a very small portion and the stories that thing tells us are mostly whacked becuase of the influence of culture etc. ;-)

The human creature (flotsam and jetsam) does not like NOT getting what it wants. It does not always get what it wants however!!!

I spent a few hours speaking with an old school chum a few days ago that I stumbled across and have not seen for years and years. He is a bank VP and I thought he was in tune to what we are facing based on things I had heard from another friend over the years.

I was sadly mistaken and though he knows most (almost all) main stream media is propaganda he had such a weird mix of beliefs as to not be helpful in any way to what could be a chance for folks to change some directions. He wields a certain power in approving massive amounts of commercial lending in Canada.

Wow I say ;-) We are the deluded species!!! Good job the squirrels aren't confused and really control everything!!! I'm enjoying the entertainment but if it gets physically painful then hmmm.






Randy Fitton

wdmn

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #161 on: January 04, 2020, 07:44:02 PM »
Bushfires devastate rare and enchanting wildlife as 'permanently wet' forests burn for first time

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-27/bushfires-devastate-ancient-forests-and-rare-wildlife/11733956?pfmredir=sm

The rainforests along the spine of the Great Dividing Range, between the Hunter River and southern Queensland, are remnants of Gondwana, the ancient supercontinent that broke up about 180 million years ago.

....

The forests are mountaintop islands that have been "permanently wet" for tens of millions of years.

But now, some of these forests are being burnt for the first time.

....

Beyond the koalas are many rare and fascinating creatures whose lives and homes have been destroyed, or remain threatened.

"The fauna in these landscapes requires permanently wet conditions, and many of the fauna species in these landscapes simply have no tolerance to fire," Mr Graham says.

...

"Friends. Shit is getting well-serious.

"I am at my place at the very top of the Bellinger Valley. Smoke has completely saturated everything for days now.

"Most of this evening I have heard the wind absolutely roaring on the escarpment above. These beasts are inexorably heading for Point Lookout and New England National Park — the biggest and healthiest chunk of Gondwana.

"There are no words that can describe the significance, enormity and horror of what now looks highly likely to happen … Rain, RAIN … RAIN …"

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #162 on: January 04, 2020, 09:15:50 PM »
Of course all this burning wood is pumping out CO2...
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

kassy

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #163 on: January 05, 2020, 05:27:53 PM »
But the tragedy is losing all these places with unique life forms. We will not get them back because they exist no where else.
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Aporia_filia

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #164 on: January 08, 2020, 11:15:00 AM »
Another silent tragedy...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/08/violence-escalates-as-romania-cracks-down-on-illegal-timber-trade

"But still, a report commissioned by the government said 20m cubic metres of timber is disappearing from the forests each year, a number bigger than the total amount of legal logging, signifying both a huge hole in the government budget and a potential climate disaster.

“The situation is out of the control of the central authorities. They don’t know what’s happening in these forests. They don’t use satellite images, they don’t use smart tools,” said Ciprian Găluşcă, of Greenpeace Romania."

sidd

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #165 on: January 14, 2020, 02:12:13 AM »
Ross at newyorker on bristlecones: post apocalypse trees

"Bristlecones are post-apocalyptic trees, sci-fi trees. They can be seen as symbols of our own precarious future."

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/20/the-past-and-the-future-of-the-earths-oldest-trees

sidd

kassy

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #166 on: January 14, 2020, 01:49:16 PM »
Nice article!

More on old trees:

Secrets of '1,000-year-old trees' unlocked

Scientists have discovered the secret of how the ginkgo tree can live for more than 1,000 years.

A study found the tree makes protective chemicals that fend off diseases and drought.

And, unlike many other plants, its genes are not programmed to trigger inexorable decline when its youth is over.

...details on:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-51063469
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Forests: An Endangered Resource
« Reply #167 on: January 15, 2020, 04:18:31 PM »
Incredible, secret firefighting mission saves famous 'dinosaur trees'
By Peter Hannam
January 15, 2020 — 4.24pm (eastern Australian time zone) - Sydney Morning Herald
Quote
Desperate efforts by firefighters on the ground and in the air have saved the only known natural grove of the world-famous Wollemi pines from destruction during the record-breaking bushfires in NSW.

The rescue mission involved water-bombing aircraft and large air tankers dropping fire retardant. Helicopters also winched specialist firefighters into the remote gorge to set up an irrigation system to increase the moisture content of the ground fuels to slow the advance of any fire.
...
While most of the Wollemi National Park has been burnt by the huge Gospers Mountain fire north-west of Sydney, specialist remote-area fire crews managed to ensure the so-called "dinosaur trees" survived.

"Wollemi National Park is the only place in the world where these trees are found in the wild and, with less than 200 left, we knew we needed to do everything we could to save them,” Mr Kean said.

The National Parks and Wildlife Service, backed by the Rural Fire Service, kept their efforts largely a secret to avoid revealing the location of the Wollemi pines.
...
"When the pines were discovered in 1994, you might as well have found a living dinosaur," Mr Kean said.
...
While one population of a couple of trees was lost [to fire], the remaining 200 made it.
...
Professor Brack said evidence from researchers who have visited the trees' secret location suggests the pines were able to withstand fires in the past. That said, "these fires have been abnormally hot and large", he added.

Saving the area was not only important for preserving the pines, which have now been propagated by nurseries at home and abroad since their discovery a quarter of a century ago.

"The entire ecosystem may be as old and as amazing as the Wollemi pines themselves," Professor Brack said.

The Gospers Mountain fire alone burnt through more than 512,000 hectares before crews contained the blaze in recent days.

Started by lightning on October 26, the fire may be assessed as the largest ever fire known to have started from a single source, the Herald reported last month.
...
I actually was wondering what their fate was.  (I've known about them for about a decade.)
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.