Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?

[Neven]

There is election rigging wherever you look...

I remember Americans losing their shit over balloons in a Russian voting booth. The hypocrisy is unbearable.

Dallas County asks to recount Super Tuesday election results after 44 thumb drives discovered

Link >> https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/politics/dallas-county-asks-to-recount-election-after-44-thumb-drives-discovered/287-84e19400-81bc-4256-bcb3-e25df380d699

Who knows how much cheating and rigging went on during Super Tuesday, with so many primaries at the same time and, of course, so little media attention for the rotten core of American Democracy.

But even the most obvious cannot be admitted, ie that the establishment pulled out all the stops, getting all the neoliberal midgets to endorse corrupt Plantation Joe on the eve of Super Tuesday, and getting the mainstream media to go full-blast propaganda, to artificially create 'Joe-de-mentum':



If Sanders doesn't take the gloves off, this is over, and Trump will get his dreamed opponent. Which is totally fine for Corporate Democrats! As long as the real left is kept out of positions of power.

[TerryM]

I think Trump has lost any chance of reelection because of his gross mishandling of the COVD-19 situation. Finding a Democrat capable of beating him is no longer a priority.
Beating the DNC at its own game, or at least letting Sanders run in November is imperative.


I think it's far too late to form a new party, but could Bernie switch to the Green Party ifwhen he's shafted by the Corporate Democrats? Trump's numbers could be so bad by November that he'd place a weak 3d if he faced Bernie and Biden. The Green's leadership could win the Vice-Presidency under an aged President, and Bernie's platform would probably meet with the Green Party's approval.


Bernie would have a better chance in a 3 way presidential race than he'll have in fighting Biden on Biden and Pelosi's home turf. If Trump decides at the last minute that he won't run, the Republicans might field a candidate that could win against divided opposition. Otherwise it would be either Bernie or Biden as President - and I think that Bernie would win that contest.


If the above is possible it might force the DNC to quit dealing seconds to Bernie's Bros in quite such a blatant fashion.
Terry

[The Walrus]

I think Trump has lost any chance of reelection because of his gross mishandling of the COVD-19 situation. Finding a Democrat capable of beating him is no longer a priority.
Beating the DNC at its own game, or at least letting Sanders run in November is imperative.


I think it's far too late to form a new party, but could Bernie switch to the Green Party ifwhen he's shafted by the Corporate Democrats? Trump's numbers could be so bad by November that he'd place a weak 3d if he faced Bernie and Biden. The Green's leadership could win the Vice-Presidency under an aged President, and Bernie's platform would probably meet with the Green Party's approval.


Bernie would have a better chance in a 3 way presidential race than he'll have in fighting Biden on Biden and Pelosi's home turf. If Trump decides at the last minute that he won't run, the Republicans might field a candidate that could win against divided opposition. Otherwise it would be either Bernie or Biden as President - and I think that Bernie would win that contest.


If the above is possible it might force the DNC to quit dealing seconds to Bernie's Bros in quite such a blatant fashion.
Terry

I feel that it is much too soon to make any predictions based on the virus.  Not sure what Bernie might decide upon.

[blumenkraft]

I think Trump has lost any chance of reelection because of his gross mishandling of the COVD-19 ...

This is nothing his cult is concerned about. His followers will vote for him because he is doing the dog-whistling they so desperately need to hear. Their need to feel superior is worth much more than anything else for them.

And then there are the ones who can't bring themself to vote for Biden.

You add that up and you'll get '2016' as the result.

[Ktb]

It would appear, unfortunately, that a lot of Bernie 2016 support was merely anti-Clinton sentiment.

[Pmt111500]

It could well be the repeat of 2016, the DNCs disdain of proper left policies pretty much guarantees Sanders isn't going to be elected to any post in the government, thus the turnout will be small and it could go either way. As it's now clear that US government will continue on the right side of political spectrum, Biden/Warren might be a reason for me to go vote against the maga-loonies of the other side. Main interest now is who is el-viceprezidente for Biden, it could tell about the direction of pull of the DNC-strings.

Warren's public image might put her in a position even in our quite left government, I think she'd be a member of the Center Party here.
CDUs Ursula von der Leyen (Merkel's friend) comes to mind.

[wili]

That would be wise on  Biden's part. But I suspect he will follow Hilary's disastrous precedent and pick another right wing corporate shill.

Even Warren, many of whose positions I respect, really just became a Democrat from being a Republican because the Repub's were getting to far right for her...and she did not think they were going to be able to do the right thing for 'the market.'

No truly radical solutions will ever come from that source, I'm afraid.

[Pmt111500]

That would be wise on  Biden's part. But I suspect he will follow Hilary's disastrous precedent and pick another right wing corporate shill.

Even Warren, many of whose positions I respect, really just became a Democrat from being a Republican because the Repub's were getting to far right for her...and she did not think they were going to be able to do the right thing for 'the market.'

No truly radical solutions will ever come from that source, I'm afraid.

Thanks, didn't expect her to be a radical.

[Neven]

Kyle Kulinski: "Guys, share this video with your... If you happen to have parents who are boomers, even GenX-ers, whatever, the older liberals, show them this video, because this how a general election will go against Trump."



I think Caitlyn Johnstone also has a good take: Keep Up The Fight: Electoral Politics Was Never Meant To Be The Solution

The American people never ceases to amaze me. Picking a neoliberal, corrupt, demented Biden over Sanders...

Let me reiterate: People who don't vote Sanders in this primary, need to leave this forum asap.

[blumenkraft]

I've given up all hope.

I thought there was momentum behind Bernie's ideas in the US, and this might actually apply. But people vote what the MSM tells them to vote for. They just don't vote on the issues.

It's either the Dem racist dies quickly so Bernie can step up, or the Rep racist will win the general election.

At this point, it takes a miracle to win...

[Pmt111500]

I've given up all hope.
<Clip>
At this point, it takes a miracle to win...

Yep, Liz Warren isn't too good a Vice-prez candidate, a short googling shows she's not for example for public schools sending her son to a top private school like a wealthy republican: https://freebeacon.com/issues/warrens-son-attended-one-of-nations-most-elite-private-schools/

[blumenkraft]

Still,

keep knocking on doors!

Link >> https://app.berniesanders.com

Keep phone banking!

Link >> https://berniesanders.com/call/

Keep text banking!

Link >> https://berniesanders.com/text/

Fucking start doing it if you haven't already!

[Tom_Mazanec]

Kyle Kulinski: "Guys, share this video with your... If you happen to have parents who are boomers, even GenX-ers, whatever, the older liberals, show them this video, because this how a general election will go against Trump."



I think Caitlyn Johnstone also has a good take: Keep Up The Fight: Electoral Politics Was Never Meant To Be The Solution

The American people never ceases to amaze me. Picking a neoliberal, corrupt, demented Biden over Sanders...

Let me reiterate: People who don't vote Sanders in this primary, need to leave this forum asap.

Politics are complicated, Neven. There are a lot of reasons to vote for or against different candidates. You know my reasons. Do you want me to leave this forum ASAP?

[oren]

Tom:
A. Please don't leave.
B. You don't vote in the Democratic primary as far as I know, so you can get off on a technicality.
C. If you think climate change is the number one topic, you certainly belong in this forum.
D. Please don't tell Neven what I said.

[blumenkraft]

+1

[Ktb]

C. If you think climate change is the number one topic, you certainly belong in this forum.

Tom has repeatedly stated his number 1 issue is not climate change. It is abortion.

[GrauerMausling]

The American people never ceases to amaze me. Picking a neoliberal, corrupt, demented Biden over Sanders...

Let me reiterate: People who don't vote Sanders in this primary, need to leave this forum asap.

In a German news magazine, Telepolis, there was an interesting idea. They assumed that Biden is already demented and that the DNC will just let Biden win the primary but take him out later on because of the dementia. After doing so the DNC can pick whoever they want. Of course it will be the same shit but different.....

[blumenkraft]

Clinton ...

[blumenkraft]

Briahna Joy Gray on Twitter:

@briebriejoy

- for one, am extremely excited about this debate all the
moderates are panicking about.

The delegate count difference is only about 150 points
out of 4051 total.

America finally gets to see Biden defend his ideas, or lack
thereof, on Sunday.

So who thinks this debate will actually take place? I strongly doubt it.

[Tom_Mazanec]

C. If you think climate change is the number one topic, you certainly belong in this forum.

Tom has repeatedly stated his number 1 issue is not climate change. It is abortion.

And AGW is number 2, out of literally scores of competing issues.
I tried to keep this out of the forum as Neven asked. When a poster vilified me on my views on right to life in a thread that had nothing to do with that, I did not reply...and another poster called him to task. But Neven opened this with his blanket statement re Sanders. I will now drop the issue on this forum.

[interstitial]

I voted for Warren but she dropped out before Washington voted. So my vote was wasted. I think Warren would make a good VP for either candidate. I much prefer Sanders on the issues but I think he identifies to openly with the socialism which makes many unwilling to even consider him.  Biden won't introduce new changes but at least he would reinstate most of the stuff Trump has deleted. 

[Pmt111500]

"Biden vs. Sanders debate to have no audience for the virus outbreaks". There's also talk Sanders would be quitting his campaign before the weekend, but that's  just DNC-talk, to lie about something they say would be good and then being disgruntled when it doesn't happen. Bernie might do that though, with an endorsement to Biden, as that might help the next leftish candidate to run on democratic mandate.

[blumenkraft]

Biden is a right-winger! Was his whole life.

[Ktb]

To me, the scariest part about Biden is his promise to return things to the status quo of 2015. The status quo that led to a Trump presidency. The status quo that resulted in us losing the SCOTUS. The status quo that tens of millions of Americans were deeply unsatisfied with and was not working for them.

If we return to the status quo, we invite another Trump-esque opportunist to step forward.

[Pmt111500]

The other way to get a center-left or left candidate to run is the third party and this has had so much success in US many in the republican complex would welcome the third party.

[The Walrus]

It would appear, unfortunately, that a lot of Bernie 2016 support was merely anti-Clinton sentiment.

you may be correct.  That would bode well for a Biden victory come November.

[TerryM]

I just watched the following and decided I'd never be able to support Biden in any race.
Someone needs to take away his drivers license and equip him with one of those homing devices lest he wanders away.


https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/03/05/stop-calling-it-a-stutter%E2%80%8A-%E2%80%8Ahere-are-dozens-of-examples-of-bidens-dementia-symptoms/


I'll enthusiastically support Bernie as a Democrat or as an Independent. Otherwise I'll support the Greens or just concern myself with local (Canadian) politics.


I still believe that Trump's handling of the COVID-19 pandemic will decide the election. If he's perceived as a Wartime President bravely leading us through these perilous times, then no one will be able to lay a glove on him. If, as I feel is more likely, he's seen as being responsible for America's woeful lack of preparation then he hasn't a chance.


Biden's recent wins and Bernie's lack of support was unexpected. Jimmy Dore's reaction is disheartening.




Perhaps the virus will clean the slate of all but the youthful Tulsi?
Terry

[oren]

I agree, the upcoming COVID-19 debacle could derail Trump's reelection. It will be hard to lie away this one, and lady luck will not be playing along.

[Neven]

The (rigged) race isn't definitely over, so I'm a bit early with this, but here's the thing: The biggest problem with a Biden nomination - or rather with Biden's vice-president's nomination, to be more precise - is that it means that the Corporate Democratic Party will not change one iota. It doesn't matter whether Trump is re-elected or somehow Demented Biden gets enough boomer votes, nothing is going to change. Nothing. No progress. Nothing.

What this means, is that the only thing that can be done by people who are serious and understand how disastrous this is, is not to vote for Biden. Either vote for Sanders if he goes third party (which isn't going to happen), or announce that you're going to vote for Trump, and then vote for Trump. And keep doing that, until they earn your vote by proposing the policies Sanders champions.

Biden and the Corporate Democrat machine do not earn your vote, they don't deserve it, don't give it to them.

As usual, Krystal is on the ball:

[Neven]

From that video: https://twitter.com/EmmaVigeland/status/1237441141617934336

[Tom_Mazanec]

Neven, they can only vote for Trump once. Unlike FDR he can’t run for a third term.

[TerryM]

Trump is the devil we know. He's terrible, but we have seen worse & could see worse again if the Corporate Democrats with their links to the MIC decide they need to show us just how tough they can get.


Once COVID-19 has winnowed the field we may not need to make such an audacious decision. Some of those guys are older than I am & the virus seems as rough on the elderly as tornadoes are rough on trailer parks.
Terry

[oren]

Neven are you seriously suggesting voting for Trump? With the corporate democrats there will sadly be no change, but with a 2nd Trump term there WILL be change for the worse. The Earth will be fucked, irrevocably, and the supreme court will be packed with younger right wing hardliners who will serve for decades.
You are wrong, sorry Neven. Totally so.

[Pmt111500]

Drumpf for 2020-24, yeah. The DNC has not learnt what democracy is, so they need to see the alternative better, I guess. Exciting times ahead. (I think here /sarc -mark is in order, even though this is a political thread and every statement is suspect.)

[Neven]

Neven are you seriously suggesting voting for Trump?

I suggest announcing voting for Trump and why ('as long as you don't offer me an alternative, ie Sanders' policies, you are not entitled to my vote and will not get it'), and then doing it.

With the corporate democrats there will sadly be no change, but with a 2nd Trump term there WILL be change for the worse. The Earth will be fucked, irrevocably, and the supreme court will be packed with younger right wing hardliners who will serve for decades.

I adjusted your text. There is no difference. Zero.

You are wrong, sorry Neven. Totally so.

I would be wrong if there were an alternative, but there is none. Vote for Biden, and nothing will change, except that something worse than Trump will be voted in next. Didn't 2016 teach you anything? They've been doing this over and over again for 40 years, and will continue to do it, as long as no one offers a serious threat.

Watch that Krystal Ball video.

[blumenkraft]

Neven, i agree policy-wise, there is no difference between Trump and Biden. It's not zero, but close enough.

But, having a Democrat as the president instead of a Republican very much makes a difference. Just think about the SCOTUS. Do you want right-wing judges blocking any progressive policies for the next 40-50 years??

There is a lot at stake here. We can't possibly want that only because we are butthurt now.

[Neven]

Do you want right-wing judges blocking any progressive policies for the next 40-50 years??

Voting for Biden is not going to change this. We can have this discussion every 4 years, until enough people make the statement I'm suggesting. Power concedes nothing without a demand.

[blumenkraft]

Sorry man, but this is just short-sighted.

Those boomers will die eventually. The progressive movement will become stronger in the process.

If you have right-wing judges appointed, you just cement their legacy for many decades to come.

[Neven]

Okay, vote for the Corporate Democrat machine then. Good luck. See you in four years.

[Neven]

[blumenkraft]

I don't vote in the US.

What i want to see is a third party actually. Sanders, AOC, Ilhan Omar, Ayana Presley, Ro Khanna, etc. They need to leave the Democratic party after the general in order to join the new 'progressive' party. This is, IMHO, how you get rid of the establishment.

You can't reform the Democrats from within, this is what we should carry away from this.

Supporting our enemy is not what we should take away from this.

[Neven]

Supporting our enemy is not what we should take away from this.

You support your enemy by voting for Biden and the Corporate Democrat machine. How can you not see this? Besides, the Corporat Democrat machine doesn't care if Trump gets re-elected. All they care about, is keeping progressives out of positions of power, so that their policies do not negatively affect concentrated wealth.

By your own logic, forming a third party will help the enemy too, because it will take votes away from the Biden of the future and help (re-)elect the Trump of the future.

By continuously showing that you're not serious, that you don't pose any threat whatsoever and will line up behind whatever they serve you, however grudgingly and 'butthurt', it will keep happening again and again.

Why are you so weak?

[blumenkraft]

Neven, i'm rational, not weak.

You support your enemy by voting for Biden and the Corporate Democrat machine.

By voting for Trump you are doing the same plus you add some extra evil to the mix. What's the logic with this?

[Neven]

The logic is that you need to break the vicious cycle, or you're going to get screwed again and again and again. Talk about being butthurt.

There is no such thing as 'rational'. It's often another word for 'cowardice'. And that's what the Corporate Democrat machine counts on.

[blumenkraft]

'break the vicious cycle' by supporting the most vicious player in said cycle?

I still don't get the logic, Neven. Sorry.

Unless you have an answer to the question of how to stop the SCOTUS becoming even more right-wing for many decades to come which would bring all chances for progressive change to zero, let's agree to disagree.

[Neven]

As long as you don't get it, and many, many more with you, there will be no meaningful change.

But hey, maybe Sanders can still win it.

[blumenkraft]

I don't get it because you never made an argument on how this would play out.

I made an argument you can't possibly falsify because a right-wing SCOTUS would indeed CEMENT the vicious cycle.

OK, let's assume, everyone does what you are proposing and elect Trump again. What then? How would it break the vicious cycle?

PS: I too hope Sanders makes it against all odds (obviously)!

[Pmt111500]

One aspect at least is electing Biden or Trump guarantees higher hospital bills for everyone, though in Trump's case there might not be a hospital to go to. But who cares.

[TerryM]

Biden is well on his way to becoming a Turnip. One of the stages in this transmutation includes the irrational aggression that he's exhibiting when he attempts to pick fist fights with voters/hecklers.


People with these problems can't be allowed any possibility of access to The Button. Voting while counting on strong handlers to keep him away from any access to real power is playing Russian Roulette with Nuclear Fire.
Who would the Democratic Dick Cheney be, and how much better than a Trump or Pence could he or she be when they are all dangling from the same threads?


The Supremes are going to be a problem, especially in the light of COVID-19. The Senate and the House are also more than a little long in the tooth, and plenty of "locked in" seats will soon be up for grabs.


Just as "it took a Nixon" to open up trade with China, it may require a Republican to blast through much of the more egregious Right Wing Bullshit.


The Progressive Dems are fighting for their lives with the DNC Leadership. The Corporate Dems are still demonstrating their loyalty to their new Corporate Masters. Only a Died in the Wool Right Wing Zealot has the Street Credits needed to successfully turn on their masters.


Only the dimmest bulbs believe that the Right's positions on AGW, Healthcare, & an expanding MIC are sustainable. At some point in the very near future someone needs to call a halt to these and other touchstones of the Republican Right.
If the Progressive Dems can't, and the Corporate Dems won't, the Republicans themselves must end those policies that every thinking person recognises as destructive to the Nation and the World.


Either that or we need a robust 3d party - Yesterday.
Terry

[Tom_Mazanec]

Biden is well on his way to becoming a Turnip. One of the stages in this transmutation includes the irrational aggression that he's exhibiting when he attempts to pick fist fights with voters/hecklers.


People with these problems can't be allowed any possibility of access to The Button. Voting while counting on strong handlers to keep him away from any access to real power is playing Russian Roulette with Nuclear Fire.
Who would the Democratic Dick Cheney be, and how much better than a Trump or Pence could he or she be when they are all dangling from the same threads?


The Supremes are going to be a problem, especially in the light of COVID-19. The Senate and the House are also more than a little long in the tooth, and plenty of "locked in" seats will soon be up for grabs.


Just as "it took a Nixon" to open up trade with China, it may require a Republican to blast through much of the more egregious Right Wing Bullshit.


The Progressive Dems are fighting for their lives with the DNC Leadership. The Corporate Dems are still demonstrating their loyalty to their new Corporate Masters. Only a Died in the Wool Right Wing Zealot has the Street Credits needed to successfully turn on their masters.


Only the dimmest bulbs believe that the Right's positions on AGW, Healthcare, & an expanding MIC are sustainable. At some point in the very near future someone needs to call a halt to these and other touchstones of the Republican Right.
If the Progressive Dems can't, and the Corporate Dems won't, the Republicans themselves must end those policies that every thinking person recognises as destructive to the Nation and the World.


Either that or we need a robust 3d party - Yesterday.
Terry

TerryM:
My mother had to get a cure for her cancer, just like we have to get a cure for our political situation.
She did not get it. She died when I was ten.
Just because it has to happen does not mean it will happen.