Support the Arctic Sea Ice Forum and Blog

Author Topic: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?  (Read 73742 times)

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 906
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #450 on: August 27, 2019, 11:02:24 PM »
My hope is that after Super Tuesday there will be one candidate remaining from each of the following three groups (with current sum of RCP polling averages):

Progressive: Sanders/Warren/Gabbard/Yang (37.4%)
Centrist: Biden/Klobuchar (29.1%)
Establishment: Harris/Buttigieg/Booker/O'Rourke/Castro (19.2%)

Of course the candidates don't fit neatly into three categories, but I can see an eventual separation forming. A possible difference between 2020 and 2016 is that centrist and establishment voters may be split.
You're an optimist, & we need more optimists.
Personally, I need an optometrist. :-\
I don't see a way out.
Terry

sedziobs

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #451 on: August 27, 2019, 11:58:05 PM »
Andrew Yang released his climate plan yesterday.
Quote
Yang commits to abandoning fossil fuels, meaning zero-emissions requirements for all new cars by 2030, a 100% emission-free electric grid by 2035, net-zero for all transportation sectors by 2040, 85% methane recapture by 2045, and a fully "green" economy by 2049.
...
Yang also supports a “constitutional amendment requiring states and the federal government to protect, preserve, and improve the environment.”

How much would all of this cost? $4.87 trillion, according to his website. This would partially be funded by a carbon tax of $40 per ton, rising eventually to $100 per ton, which includes a fee on imports from countries that don’t impose a similar type of carbon fee or tax, the plan says.

Yang would additionally call for ending all federal subsidies for the fossil fuel industry, stopping all oil and gas development on public lands, and provide a $10 billion debt forgiveness fund for all “rural co-ops that are relying on non-renewable sources, and provide different financing options to these cooperatives to get them to move over to renewable sources.”
USA Today via Yahoo

TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 906
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #452 on: August 28, 2019, 12:23:25 AM »
No wonder Elon's got his back, even though Kimbal married into a family of loquacious Conservatives.
Who will poor Maye be supporting - or will she vote here in Canada?

Terry


Klondike Kat

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 842
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 46
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #453 on: August 28, 2019, 02:55:46 PM »
My hope is that after Super Tuesday there will be one candidate remaining from each of the following three groups (with current sum of RCP polling averages):

Progressive: Sanders/Warren/Gabbard/Yang (37.4%)
Centrist: Biden/Klobuchar (29.1%)
Establishment: Harris/Buttigieg/Booker/O'Rourke/Castro (19.2%)

Of course the candidates don't fit neatly into three categories, but I can see an eventual separation forming. A possible difference between 2020 and 2016 is that centrist and establishment voters may be split.

I thing it may be down to three, but not one from each category.  Klobuchar will likely drop after Super Tuesday, staying in just long enough for the Minnesota primary. 

The entire establishment group may be gone, as they are each polling in the low to mid single digits (Buttigieg may opt to remain in name only until the Indiana primary in May).

The first grouping (progressive) is the most interesting, as several candidates may hang around, especially if they can pick up support from other candidates when they drop. 

My gut feeling is that it comes down to Biden, Sanders, and Warren.  The longer Sanders and Warren both remain, the more likely that Biden will win the nomination.

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3007
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 566
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #454 on: August 28, 2019, 03:40:40 PM »
If Biden gets the nod, might a Progressive run as an Independant?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

sedziobs

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #455 on: August 28, 2019, 04:19:22 PM »
The entire establishment group may be gone, as they are each polling in the low to mid single digits (Buttigieg may opt to remain in name only until the Indiana primary in May).

The first grouping (progressive) is the most interesting, as several candidates may hang around, especially if they can pick up support from other candidates when they drop. 

My gut feeling is that it comes down to Biden, Sanders, and Warren.  The longer Sanders and Warren both remain, the more likely that Biden will win the nomination.
I can see Harris sticking around if she does well in California. She has led in 3 of the 6 polls there since July (Biden led two and Warren one). I think if there is separation between Sanders and Warren after Super Tuesday, whoever is trailing will drop out.

If Biden gets the nod, might a Progressive run as an Independant?
Doubtful. I think the only potential independent candidate at this point is Justin Amash, possibly joined by someone like Kasich.

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #456 on: August 28, 2019, 05:56:40 PM »
If Biden gets the nod, might a Progressive run as an Independant?

Seriously, AOC, Sanders, Omar, Talib, Khanna, and the other progressives should leave the DNC for a newly formed third party. The DNC would be so fucked...

They can draw at least 20% of the votes (IMHO). They could have leverage. Inside the corrupt DNC, they are played and nothing points to improvement.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #457 on: August 28, 2019, 05:59:29 PM »
Progressive: Sanders/Warren/Gabbard/Yang (37.4%)
Centrist: Biden/Klobuchar (29.1%)
Establishment: Harris/Buttigieg/Booker/O'Rourke/Castro (19.2%)

I don't understand, how do you distinguish centrist and establishment?
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #458 on: August 28, 2019, 06:00:47 PM »
Wonder who they'll blame after the 2020 loss?

The voters, obviously. Who else? ;)
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Neven

  • Administrator
  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 7616
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
  • Liked: 982
  • Likes Given: 501
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #459 on: August 28, 2019, 06:08:35 PM »
Wonder who they'll blame after the 2020 loss?

The voters, obviously. Who else? ;)

Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #460 on: August 28, 2019, 06:11:05 PM »
LOL
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

sedziobs

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #461 on: August 28, 2019, 06:52:39 PM »
Progressive: Sanders/Warren/Gabbard/Yang (37.4%)
Centrist: Biden/Klobuchar (29.1%)
Establishment: Harris/Buttigieg/Booker/O'Rourke/Castro (19.2%)
I don't understand, how do you distinguish centrist and establishment?
Nothing scientific, just my impressions. I could have gone without the labels and just listed candidate groups.

I see centrists as promoting compromise with Republicans, while establishment candidates have standard liberal ideas and a lot of identity politics in their rhetoric. Healthcare could be a defining issue - Biden and Klobuchar do not support Medicare-for all (they favor a public option on an insurance market). The establishment does not support single payer.

wili

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3037
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 489
  • Likes Given: 344
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #462 on: August 28, 2019, 07:34:35 PM »
IOW, the Establishment Dem's are further right than most rightwing parties in most industrialized countries, and beyond!
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #463 on: August 28, 2019, 08:52:55 PM »
I see centrists as promoting compromise with Republicans, while establishment candidates have standard liberal ideas and a lot of identity politics in their rhetoric. Healthcare could be a defining issue - Biden and Klobuchar do not support Medicare-for all (they favor a public option on an insurance market). The establishment does not support single payer.

Thanks, i understand now.

Both centrists and establishment appear to me to have the same general political goal: Don't change. If anything they are incrementalists who don't want real change either but they make it look like that.

And for the candidates, no other than Sanders appears to me as if they want fundamental change. Money in politics for example. Which brings us to Warren who admitted to taking corporate donations after the primaries. She opted out of being progressive already.

Gabbard jumped the bandwagon way too often in recent memory. Therefore i can't trust her. Sanders is beating the same drums for 50 years now. He has proven to maintain a sane worldview throughout that time, i'm sure he will not change his mind all of a sudden when in office.

Yang is a useful idiot for the right. His UBI idea is basically the excuse to cut social security. It's not well thought out. Sanders ideas are solid and have proven to be positive on society when implemented. He's not playing around, he knows what he does. Yang doesn't.

“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

oren

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5497
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1675
  • Likes Given: 1588
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #464 on: August 28, 2019, 11:41:45 PM »
I think Sanders is the only one who can possibly beat Trump. Biden is more "centric" but inspires no one. Sanders is a populist - the right kind. For the people. He could stand up to Trump and give some rhetoric in return.

VaughnAn

  • New ice
  • Posts: 79
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 39
  • Likes Given: 375
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #465 on: August 29, 2019, 12:41:49 AM »
I think Sanders is the only one who can possibly beat Trump. Biden is more "centric" but inspires no one. Sanders is a populist - the right kind. For the people. He could stand up to Trump and give some rhetoric in return.

I personally support Sanders and I will vote for him (first choice) as long as he is running.  I believe he can and will beat Trump soundly, even overwhelmingly.

Right now it can be very difficult to decipher what you hear from United States news media about politics.  There are many polls taken(completely unrepresentative, non random, and bias) designed to promote certain candidates.  Gallup Polls are probably pretty good but I have not seen any published results from them in some time so I am not sure they are even around.  They Young Turks publish fairly accurate news, albeit with a left bias which I personally think is mostly justified.  There are several news organizations like the New York Times and The Washington Post I usually trust as well.  BBC and other foreign news organizations like Al Jazeera probably have less bias reporting on United States political news than many US sources.  These are not the only more reputably sources, just some examples.  Good luck.

sedziobs

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #466 on: August 29, 2019, 04:06:42 PM »
The deadline for the September debate has passed with Tulsi and Steyer not qualifying (they still have time to qualify for the October debate). For the first time, all candidates will be on the stage together.

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #467 on: August 29, 2019, 05:36:31 PM »
Cloudbootchar dropped out!  :)
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

sedziobs

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #468 on: August 29, 2019, 06:25:33 PM »
Cloudbootchar dropped out!  :)
Do you mean Gillibrand?

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #469 on: August 29, 2019, 08:31:22 PM »
Oh, right! Sorry, i totally mixed them up.

There is not enough space in my brain for those people i'm afraid.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #470 on: August 30, 2019, 10:26:31 PM »
Washington Post’s STUNNING ‘Fact-Check’ On Bernie Claim

“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Ken Feldman

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 163
  • Likes Given: 118
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #471 on: August 30, 2019, 11:45:47 PM »
Here's the fact check that the video is complaining about.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/08/28/sanderss-flawed-statistic-medical-bankruptcies-year/

Here are some excerpts.  The article is much longer and well worth reading.

Quote
“500,000 people go bankrupt every year because they cannot pay their outrageous medical bills.”
— Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), in an interview on CNN’s “State of the Union,” Aug. 25, 2019
“500,000 Americans will go bankrupt this year from medical bills.”
— Sanders, in a tweet, Aug. 20, 2019
This claim from Sanders — that medical bills drive half a million people into bankruptcy every year — relies partly on research from former Harvard professor and now senator Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.).
Sanders and Warren are seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, both running on a platform that includes universal health care and lower costs for patients. Interestingly, though, Warren doesn’t appear to make the same claim about 500,000 medical bankruptcies per year.
The Sanders campaign told us he was citing a statistic from a public health journal. Critics say the study he’s citing casts too wide a net because it counts anyone who mentioned medical bills or illness among their reasons for declaring bankruptcy, not just those who said it was the main reason or a big piece.

Quote
The federal courts recorded 750,489 nonbusiness bankruptcy filings in the year that ended March 31, down 0.8 percent from the previous 12-month period, according to data from the federal judiciary.
Sanders said 500,000 people were driven to bankruptcy by medical bills. A Sanders campaign aide said he was relying on an editorial published by the American Journal of Public Health (AJPH) in March.
That study, led by David U. Himmelstein, took a sample of bankruptcy court filings from 2013 to 2016, identified 3,200 bankrupt debtors and mailed them a survey. The response rate was 29.4 percent, with 910 responses and 108 surveys returned as undeliverable.

Debtors were asked whether medical expenses, or loss of work related to illness, contributed to their bankruptcies. Of those who responded, 66.5 percent said at least one of those factors contributed “somewhat” or “very much.”
Sixty-six percent of 750,000 is 500,000, so Sanders’s math adds up at first glance
.
“The majority (58.5%) ‘very much’ or ‘somewhat’ agreed that medical expenses contributed, and 44.3% cited illness-related work loss; 66.5% cited at least one of these two medical contributors—equivalent to about 530,000 medical bankruptcies annually,” the AJPH editorial says.

Quote
Craig Garthwaite, a health-care policy expert in the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University, said the study was flawed. “It’s basically saying that if you go bankrupt and you have medical debt, that’s the cause of your bankruptcy,” he said. “That’s not the way you can do this kind of analysis.”
He added: “Rather than looking at a sample of people who go bankrupt and see how many have medical debt, look at a sample of a bunch of people who have medical debt, and how many of them go bankrupt. And that gives you an idea of causality.”
A group of researchers tried that approach in a peer-reviewed study published by the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) in 2018. Looking at a random sample of California hospital patients between 2003 and 2007, they found that medical bankruptcies represented 4 percent of all bankruptcies. The patients were between ages 25 and 64 and included only those admitted to a hospital for non-birth-related reasons.

“Based on our estimate of 4 percent of bankruptcy filings per year and the approximately 800,000 bankruptcy filings per year, our number would be much closer to something on the order of 30,000-50,000 bankruptcies caused by a hospitalization,” one of the co-authors of the NEJM study, economist Raymond Kluender of Harvard Business School, wrote in an email.

Quote
The Pinocchio Test
This is a classic case of cherry-picking a number from a scientific study and twisting it to make a political point.
Sanders’s statements — “500,000 people go bankrupt every year because they cannot pay their outrageous medical bills” and “500,000 Americans will go bankrupt this year from medical bills” — are unambiguous. He’s saying medical debts caused those 500,000 bankruptcies. However, correlation is not causation, and the study he’s citing doesn’t establish causation for all 500,000 bankruptcy cases.
One of the authors sent us rough estimates showing that Sanders might be on target, but those numbers deserve scientific scrutiny before they can be taken as fact.
In the meantime, the statistic Sanders’s campaign cited includes bankrupt debtors for whom medical expenses may have been a minor or relatively small contributing factor. A different, peer-reviewed study arrived at a much different conclusion, suggesting the medical bankruptcy rate is far lower, although it measured only hospital patients and not all types of medical debt.
The omissions and twists are significant enough to merit Three Pinocchios for Sanders.


TerryM

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 6002
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 906
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #472 on: August 31, 2019, 02:08:16 AM »
^^
I'm in total agreement Ken. The worst year I ever experienced WRT medical expenses not covered by the best, most inclusive health insurance plan offered in Nevada that year was <$40k. Anyone who can't afford $40k/yr without declaring personal bankruptcy simply has no business getting sick.
Terry ::)


Sometimes borders make a difference. Here I write off hospital parking fees & my mileage, food and lodging (for two) if I use an out of town hospital.

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #473 on: August 31, 2019, 07:17:10 AM »
In a civilized country, no one dies or goes bankrupt because they don't have healthcare. The WaPo is committing barbary apology with this so-called 'fact-check'. There are people in the US without healthcare, the ones having healthcare pay double the necessary rate.

It's the unnecessary suffering Bernie wants to end!

The WaPo also reported these numbers. They did report these exact numbers, and only do a fact check when Bernie cites them! How is this not an obvious smear attack?

I trust the study more than the despicable spin the WaPo gives it. It's agenda-setting, not journalism.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #474 on: August 31, 2019, 01:19:34 PM »
Bernie: We have no time for your bullshit.

“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Klondike Kat

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 842
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 46
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #475 on: August 31, 2019, 03:18:29 PM »
Typical politician.  Make a false claim to bolster your agenda.  Say it comes from a reputable source.  Hope nobody checks the accuracy of your claim.  Two out of three ain’t bad.

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #476 on: August 31, 2019, 03:44:57 PM »
Yeah, that's the kind of nitpicking that's helpful. Just distract from the message...

His focus is on the actual issue which is the production of oil and gas. And there is nothing wrong with this.

If you think his reasoning is not scientific enough i have news for you, Kat. None of the candidates is also a climate scientist.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #477 on: August 31, 2019, 04:13:39 PM »
Sharp as always! ;)

“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3007
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 566
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #478 on: September 01, 2019, 01:29:34 AM »
WHAT CLIMATE CHANGE DEBATE?
https://thephiladelphiacitizen.org/reality-check-what-climate-change-debate/
Quote
Black voters—and Democrats—worry about the environment’s effect on their lives. All the more reason, Charles Ellison argues, the DNC should not have nixed a climate debate
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #479 on: September 01, 2019, 11:57:19 AM »
Bernie: Why I'm An Existential Threat To The Democratic Party

“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #480 on: September 01, 2019, 06:05:29 PM »
What she said!
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Klondike Kat

  • Grease ice
  • Posts: 842
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 46
  • Likes Given: 56
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #481 on: September 02, 2019, 02:51:52 AM »
Yeah, that's the kind of nitpicking that's helpful. Just distract from the message...

His focus is on the actual issue which is the production of oil and gas. And there is nothing wrong with this.

If you think his reasoning is not scientific enough i have news for you, Kat. None of the candidates is also a climate scientist.

I was actually referring to Sander’s bankruptcy claims.  Sorry for the confusion.

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #482 on: September 02, 2019, 07:00:45 PM »
Yeah, that's the kind of nitpicking that's helpful. Just distract from the message...

His focus is on the actual issue which is the production of oil and gas. And there is nothing wrong with this.

If you think his reasoning is not scientific enough i have news for you, Kat. None of the candidates is also a climate scientist.

I was actually referring to Sander’s bankruptcy claims.  Sorry for the confusion.

No worries.

But here my answer also fits. He wants to fight bankruptcy or death due to shitty/no healthcare - with a damn good plan to achieve this goal! If the number he cites is indeed correct or not is not important here because only one person going bankrupt is barbary. Period.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #483 on: September 02, 2019, 08:05:13 PM »
This happened.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3007
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 566
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #484 on: September 03, 2019, 02:21:50 PM »
Blumenkraft, what is that bird?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #485 on: September 03, 2019, 10:36:30 PM »
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #486 on: September 03, 2019, 10:38:05 PM »
Blumenkraft, what is that bird?

I think the bird is called Berdie! ;)
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3007
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 566
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #487 on: September 04, 2019, 01:17:50 AM »
Well at least it wasn't called "Flip", like the bird of Mad magazine.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3007
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 566
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #488 on: September 04, 2019, 07:15:43 PM »
Julián Castro rolls out $10 trillion plan to fight climate change
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/03/politics/julian-castro-climate-plan/
Quote
Castro's plan -- titled "People and Planet First Plan" -- aims to "direct $10 trillion in federal, state, local, and private investments" over the next 10 years. The Castro campaign estimates that the influx of investment will create 10 million jobs over a decade.
But Castro's plan also focuses on the racial impacts of climate change, citing a series of studies that found those most directly impacted by issues like toxic waste, asthma and pollution are more likely to be people of color and more vulnerable communities.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/03/julian-castro-climate-change-1700257
Quote
Castro’s plan aims for the U.S. to achieve net-zero emissions by 2045, meaning any greenhouse gas pollution at that time would be offset by reforestation or other techniques. By 2030, his administration would aim for a 50 percent greenhouse gas reduction.

But here's a bargain  ;D
How Cory Booker would combat climate change
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/03/cory-booker-climate-change-plan-1698450
Quote
Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) on Tuesday unveiled a $3 trillion plan to tackle climate change and invest heavily in cleaning up polluted sites around the country that disproportionately affect low-income and communities of color.

And let the ladies have a chance
How Kamala Harris would address climate change
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/04/kamala-harris-climate-change-1479993
Quote
“As president, I will hold polluters accountable for the damage they inflict upon our environment and set us on a path to a 100 percent clean economy that creates millions of good-paying jobs,” Harris said in a statement. “This crisis demands urgency and boldness, and as president, I will act.”

I never even heard of this guy  ;D
How Pete Buttigieg would tackle climate change
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/04/pete-buttigieg-climate-change-1479995
Quote
Buttigieg calls for generating 100 percent of electricity in the U.S. by 2035 without producing carbon emissions, a goal that would leave room for continued use of nuclear energy and the potential for natural gas or coal plants that would capture their emissions. By 2040, the plan calls for net-zero emissions for all new heavy-duty vehicles, buses, rail, ships and aircraft. And it calls for net-zero emissions from all other industries — including steel, manufacturing and agriculture — by 2050.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 08:04:56 PM by Tom_Mazanec »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5514
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 729
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #489 on: September 06, 2019, 01:48:30 AM »
Prez on the Rez: First Nations and the candidates

"Two really critical states that I think will be in play because of the Native vote are here in Arizona, which is always a purple state, and Wisconsin. "

"Senator Sanders had a much bigger connection with the audience, but most of the media was gone at that point."

" in the 1950s, the Congress, the United States decided to terminate Indian tribes, and to end the treaty relationship. This is called the termination era. And from that era, there are still a bunch of laws on the books, including tribes not having jurisdiction over non-Indians. Elizabeth Warren went, and she really schooled herself on this, she raised the possibility of repealing the Oliphant decision, which is one of those termination-era bills."

https://fair.org/home/you-cant-know-this-countrys-story-without-learning-how-indian-country-fits-in/

sidd

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3007
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 566
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #490 on: September 06, 2019, 10:49:06 PM »
Julián Castro’s Green New Deal frames climate as a civil rights issue
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/4/20849093/julian-castro-2020-democratic-primary-climate-change-green-new-deal-civil-rights-justice
Quote
Ahead of a major climate change Democratic forum on CNN, Democratic presidential candidate and former San Antonio Mayor Julián Castro has released his version of the Green New Deal, a climate change plan that closely aligns with his presidential bid. It is progressive, but not the most liberal of the climate proposals released so far, and focuses heavily on social justice and civil rights.

Castro bills his plan as “ambitious and achievable” — it calls for a $10 trillion investment over 10 years, putting him in the middle of the pack as far as cost is concerned. His rivals Pete Buttigieg and Beto O’Rourke fall at the low end, with proposals that cost about $2 trillion and $5 trillion, respectively; Bernie Sanders has called for a $16.3 trillion investment.

It’s Wednesday, September 4, and six presidential hopefuls have released climate plans ahead of CNN’s Climate Crisis Town Hall.
https://grist.org/beacon/its-climate-plan-christmas/
Quote
Klobuchar promises to “pass sweeping legislation” within her first 100 days in office that would put the U.S. on the path to net-zero emissions by 2050
Booker calls for the creation of a White House-coordinated Environmental Justice Fund, which would commit $50 billion a year to frontline communities
Warren nods to the gone-but-not-forgotten climate candidate Jay Inslee with a 10-year action plan to achieve 100 percent clean energy
Castro proposes legislation requiring all federal actions to be reviewed to see what sort of health and environmental impact they’d have on marginalized communities
Buttigieg plans to build “Regional Resilience Hubs,” with $5 billion in annual grants to invest in locally driven pre-disaster mitigation efforts
Harris would strengthen the EPA’s ability to legally enforce environmental policies and direct the Department of Justice to “address both cumulative and legacy pollution”

How Kamala Harris would address climate change
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/04/kamala-harris-climate-change-1479993
Quote
California Sen. Kamala Harris on Wednesday released her plan for addressing climate change, calling for $10 trillion in public and private funding to create a carbon-neutral economy and invoking her past as a prosecutor to target companies that are driving greenhouse gas emissions.

“As president, I will hold polluters accountable for the damage they inflict upon our environment and set us on a path to a 100 percent clean economy that creates millions of good-paying jobs,” Harris said in a statement. “This crisis demands urgency and boldness, and as president, I will act.”
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 11:47:09 PM by Tom_Mazanec »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

sidd

  • First-year ice
  • Posts: 5514
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 729
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #491 on: September 07, 2019, 02:46:44 AM »
Apparently I missed an important bulletin from America's Finest News Source: Buttigieg samples local wares in Iowa

"This is way better than the stuff they gave me in New Hampshire, I’ll tell you that much."

"This place is fucking crazy, man. You guys are fucking crazy. We’re gonna bring America back, we’re gonna bring America back, we’re gonna bring America back, we’re gonna bring America back, we’re gonna bring America back. God damn. Where am I?"

"promising that, if elected president, he would do everything in his power to end the scourge of centipedes crawling underneath the skin "

https://politics.theonion.com/pete-buttigieg-charms-crowd-at-iowa-truck-stop-by-sampl-1837218725

sidd

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #492 on: September 08, 2019, 04:46:18 PM »
Establishment Media Continues To Shake In FEAR Of Bernie

“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

sedziobs

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #493 on: September 09, 2019, 05:15:37 PM »
Steyer picked up his 4th qualifying poll for the October debate, so if no one drops out before then we'll finally have a debate with fewer than 10 candidates on stage.

Gabbard received 2% in the national ABC poll among registered voters, but only 1% among all Democrat leaning respondents. DNC says it doesn't count.  ???

Tom_Mazanec

  • Young ice
  • Posts: 3007
    • View Profile
    • Planet Mazanec
  • Liked: 566
  • Likes Given: 166
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #494 on: September 09, 2019, 05:25:39 PM »
CNN climate town hall finishes last in viewers among cable news broadcasts
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/460139-cnn-climate-town-hall-finishes-last-in-viewers-among-cable-news-broadcasts
Quote
CNN's 7-hour town hall on climate change with 2020 White House contenders finished last among the three cable news networks in terms of average total viewers, according to early numbers from Nielsen Media Research.

CNN averaged 1.1 million viewers from 5 p.m. to midnight, the hours devoted to back-to-back town halls by 10 Democratic contenders.

Democrats: Americans Won’t Pay Your Carbon Taxes
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-09-08/democrats-think-climate-change-is-a-winning-issue-think-again
[/quote]The “town hall” had a lot of excitement about the sorts of environmental policies voters have repeatedly rejected. [/quote]
« Last Edit: September 09, 2019, 06:07:26 PM by Tom_Mazanec »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #495 on: September 10, 2019, 02:29:13 PM »
How Elizabeth Warren Raised Big Money Before She Denounced Big Money

Link >> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-2020.html

It's beyond me that people trust and support her...
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

SteveMDFP

  • Nilas ice
  • Posts: 1690
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 342
  • Likes Given: 23
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #496 on: September 10, 2019, 03:23:11 PM »
How Elizabeth Warren Raised Big Money Before She Denounced Big Money

Link >> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-2020.html

It's beyond me that people trust and support her...

American politics has massive built-in corruption.  It now typically takes about a BILLION dollars to run a campaign for President.  If one doesn't raise such a sum, one has little or no ability to respond to smears and lies and disinformation.

There are occasional examples of people running credible campaigns while raising much less money.  Bernie Sanders has built his own brand over many years, and has a large cadre of enthusiastic supporters, who give many, many small donations.  These examples are vanishingly rare.

Donald Trump has honed an ability to grab the media spotlight, by saying things that get massive attention in the media.  For his whole life, he's transfixed the media with his antics, while obfuscating the nature of his actions.

These two examples provide no workable model for most people of good will who want to run in order to reform all the dysfunction.  They need to raise a billion dollars, somehow.

If one is prepared to give a candidate the benefit of the doubt, accepting money now while declaring an ambition to end big money in politics is not an inherent contradiction or hypocrisy. It's unavoidable necessity in a structurally corrupt political system.

For me, Warren has demonstrated a very good (not perfect) record of being a reformer and hard-worker.

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #497 on: September 10, 2019, 03:46:01 PM »
Steve, your post leaves me baffled.

While there is nothing wrong with your analysis, you end with how you like Warren?

You see the massive build-in corruption. What would logically follow this? In my world, this would mean to stop the support for money in politics.

You point out how Bernie is the candidate who achieved that goal already, but you don't end your post with 'and therefore Bernie is the real deal'?

You see how rare such a chance is, and then you dismiss it instead of grabbing it?

We now see the whole democratic mainstream narrative shifting because Bernie relentlessly beating the same drums for the last 50 years but you see Warren as the hard worker?

Healthcare for all, Green New Deal, minimum wage, etc, that's what all the candidates talk about because Bernie shifted the Overton window. It's his contribution to the country already before even being president - but you see Warren as the reformer?

Warren just recently voted for a completely overblown military spending. How is she not part of the machine you want to see go?
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

sedziobs

  • Frazil ice
  • Posts: 369
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 51
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #498 on: September 10, 2019, 04:26:42 PM »
We now see the whole democratic mainstream narrative shifting because Bernie relentlessly beating the same drums for the last 50 years but you see Warren as the hard worker?

Healthcare for all, Green New Deal, minimum wage, etc, that's what all the candidates talk about because Bernie shifted the Overton window. It's his contribution to the country already before even being president - but you see Warren as the reformer?

Bernie and Warren have their differences, but both can be considered hard working reformers. Bernie can be "the real deal" and Warren can be a candidate worth supporting.

blumenkraft

  • Moderator
  • Young ice
  • Posts: 4372
  • Fans of Hans Ø Club - circa 2018
    • View Profile
  • Liked: 1485
  • Likes Given: 2310
Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #499 on: September 10, 2019, 04:36:31 PM »
Not if you actually care about the issues at hand, Sedziobs. You can't support Warren if you are somewhat consequent.

With Warren, you support money in politics and a huge military-industrial complex. With Sanders, you don't.

It's really that easy, it's all there in plain sight for everyone to see who wants to see.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain