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Author Topic: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?  (Read 36265 times)

SteveMDFP

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #650 on: October 30, 2019, 08:59:08 PM »
Americans have no idea how terrible their system is. Canadians have no idea how wonderful their system is (at least in comparison).

It's not just the cost, it's the quality.
Terry

I largely agree.  It's been a long time since Gallup polled citizens of the US, UK, and Canada on their health care systems.  I think patient (citizen) satisfaction is an under-considered metric when evaluating national systems:

Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada
https://news.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canada.aspx


The three nations don't differ markedly on perceived quality of care, but there's a pretty striking difference on perceived availability of care.  Of course, care that is unavailable is of extremely poor quality, a consideration not captured here.  Unsurprisingly, the US system is abysmal.  Canada, overall, is best of the three.

Offhand, I don't know how per-capita costs compare between UK and Canada.  My impression is that Canada is a bigger spender per capita.  I think  there's some pressure on the Canadian system to try to match all the high-tech over-utilization found south of the border.  The UK is probably better for taxpayers, the Canadian for patients. 

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #651 on: October 30, 2019, 09:10:00 PM »
... at least in comparison ...

Since you are one of the few people who are actually able to compare, people should listen to you on the topic.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #652 on: October 31, 2019, 07:46:44 PM »
Biden Drops 9pts & Bernie Leads In New Hampshire Poll

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sedziobs

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #653 on: November 01, 2019, 03:11:05 PM »
Biden is down to 4th in today's NY Times Iowa poll, in what is essentially a 4 way tie:
22 Warren
19 Sanders
18 Buttigieg
17 Biden

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #654 on: November 01, 2019, 03:55:14 PM »
Hey, Kat, do you see that?

 8)
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #655 on: November 01, 2019, 11:43:44 PM »
How can that Buttigieg guy possibly be so high on the list?
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Ken Feldman

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #656 on: November 01, 2019, 11:50:01 PM »
How can that Buttigieg guy possibly be so high on the list?

He's a centrist who, unlike Biden, can actually put together coherent sentences during a debate.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #657 on: November 02, 2019, 07:22:22 AM »
How can that Buttigieg guy possibly be so high on the list?

Mainstream media is writing positively about him over and over again while completely ignoring the frontrunner. Then the sheeple remember the name. It really is that easy to manipulate the masses.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #658 on: November 02, 2019, 07:23:42 AM »
He's a centrist who, unlike Biden, can actually put together coherent sentences during a debate.

He's a centrist who, unlike Biden, can actually put together coherent sentences lies during a debate.

FIFY ;)
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #659 on: November 02, 2019, 08:17:36 AM »
Quote
Beto O'Rourke Ends Presidential Bid
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CognitiveBias

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #660 on: November 02, 2019, 12:09:19 PM »
He's a centrist who, unlike Biden, can actually put together coherent sentences during a debate.

He's a centrist who, unlike Biden, can actually put together coherent sentences lies during a debate.

FIFY ;)

Do you have something real against Buttigieg or just here for the slander?  Just wondering, bc I watched the debates, and find him to be intelligent and well spoken. 

I do recognize that this is a Bernie fan club, but there is a good chance that it will be someone else.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #661 on: November 02, 2019, 12:24:23 PM »
Maybe we will get Bernie as an Independent, as well as a “traditional” Republican as another Independent. That would make for an interesting election.
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #662 on: November 02, 2019, 12:36:32 PM »
I do recognize that this is a Bernie fan club, but there is a good chance that it will be someone else.

Which would end all hope for the US. This really is the American people's last chance.

Imagine if the media would get behind Sanders like they get behind Biden, Klobuchar, Buttigieg and so on. He would then beat Trump 100%, with no problem. And that's what everybody wants, right? No, that's not what everybody wants. A lot of people would rather lose to Trump with a neoliberal, fake, hypocritical, sociopath Clinton-clone than win with Sanders. That's because Sanders wants to put an end to their gravy train, while Trump is worth his weight in gold (for ratings, consultants, warmongers).

If Sanders does become president, it still won't be easy. But at least there's a fighting chance for improvement. If he doesn't become the next president of the US, it's game over.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #663 on: November 02, 2019, 01:26:45 PM »
Do you have something real against Buttigieg or just here for the slander?

No, this is not slander. My opinion of him is based on his politics/actions. He is a neoliberal politician. I'm anti-neoliberalism.

Then, he is jumping the bandwagon on the issues. When it was HFA a few months ago it's now shilling for insurances with him. This is not what i consider consistent. A politician i support needs to be consistent.

His political record as a major is bad. Why would i thrust him to become a better politician as a president?

Quote
Just wondering, bc I watched the debates, and find him to be intelligent and well spoken.
 

No, sure. If you want an intelligent president who doesn't want to change the systemic racism, the fact that corporations have the power in your country and not you, if you like when billionaires should stay that rich in order to express ultimate power over every American, then you should vote for him.

Quote
I do recognize that this is a Bernie fan club

Am i a Bernie fan? Hell yeah!!

Is that a bad thing? No, because what you call fandom it's called grassroots movement really. It's what a democracy is supposed to produce. Better ideas are supposed to be implemented in society because there are common people fighting for it, spreading the word.

If you call it fandom, you kinda smear democracy.

Quote
but there is a good chance that it will be someone else.

 ┐( ˘_˘)┌
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sedziobs

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #664 on: November 02, 2019, 09:47:23 PM »
How can that Buttigieg guy possibly be so high on the list?
He's a centrist who, unlike Biden, can actually put together coherent sentences during a debate.
I assume the "list" we're talking about is the Iowa poll I posted. Buttigieg is a Midwestern candidate who performs better in Iowa than other places. Warren and Sanders do better in New Hampshire. Biden is nearly untouchable in South Carolina. Nationally things haven't changed a whole lot. Over the last several months, Warren's rise and Harris' decline have been the only major trends.

Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #665 on: November 04, 2019, 04:19:51 PM »
Hey, Kat, do you see that?

 8)

Yes, and I also saw the NYTimes polls which shows Trump beating Warren by 7, Sanders by 2, and edging Biden by 1 in Iowa.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #666 on: November 04, 2019, 04:39:09 PM »
Hehe, that is funny.

Anyway, i promised you Biden would drop in the polls, and here we are. You can count on me, Kat. :)

Bernie Gaining, 6 New Polls, Michigan & Nevada! - Dem 2020 Presidential Primary Polls November 2019

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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #667 on: November 04, 2019, 05:01:12 PM »
Why Bernie Can Win The States Warren Can't

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Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #668 on: November 04, 2019, 05:23:54 PM »
Hehe, that is funny.

Anyway, i promised you Biden would drop in the polls, and here we are. You can count on me, Kat. :)


Yes, on August 12 you stated that he would fade.  His polling numbers actually dropped before then (down about 5% from his June high), so you were just confirming what had occurred over the previous two months.  His number have not changed much since then.  Therefore, I would conclude that his numbers have not dropped since your statement, and he especially has not faded.

Sander's numbers are about the same over the same period, and his has consistently trailed Biden by about 13 percentage points.  Warren's numbers have shown the biggest change over the past three months, rising about 7 points.  Her gain seems to have coincided with Harris' drop.  Biden is still holding a 5-10 point lead over Warren, and 10-15 over Sanders.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #669 on: November 04, 2019, 06:55:06 PM »
Well, then let's just watch this a little longer, shall we? :)

Biden will drop, even more, is what i see.
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Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #670 on: November 04, 2019, 07:15:28 PM »
Well, then let's just watch this a little longer, shall we? :)

Biden will drop, even more, is what i see.

Possibly.  My crystal ball is broken.  After super Tuesday, I expected the field to be whittled down to three, unless Buttigieg lingers.  I suspect that when Klobuchar and Yang drop out, that their supporters will flock to Biden, with the remainder split between Sanders and Warren (although possibly more so to Sanders).  That would leave the spread nearly at the status quo.  The only way I see Biden losing is if either Sanders or Warren drops out and throws their support to the other.  They may have to do so early in the primary season, to prevent Biden from securing enough delegates before the convention.  Then again, these are just polling numbers.  No one has actually cast a ballot yet.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #671 on: November 04, 2019, 07:42:23 PM »
I don't see that.

Grab some popcorn. :)
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Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #672 on: November 04, 2019, 07:59:23 PM »
I don't see that.

Grab some popcorn. :)

Which part don't you see?  How do you envision the primary season playing out?

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #673 on: November 04, 2019, 08:37:22 PM »
I hope that actual policies will decide this election.

There is a great majority of people who want actual change. Like universal healthcare, a higher minimum wage, more power to the people, less power to the billionaires.

Bernie Sanders is the candidate with the best answers to these questions and a lot of people are seeing that. He has a grassroots movement behind him making change possible. And those people will phone the hell out of the nation. And donate again, and again. Biden doesn't have that, nor does Warren.

In my ideal vision, Warren will drop out and endorse Sanders. But even without that, the chances are great for him to win the nomination.

* blumenkraft  is knocking on wood
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #674 on: November 04, 2019, 10:44:33 PM »
It will take beating fake polls, the media, superdelegates, billions of dollars of dark money, Trump and his cronies, the Clintons and their cronies...

But it's the only way. It's America's last chance. It's the world's last chance.

I hope Bernie will live long enough to become president and then inspire enough young people to follow his example, because one Bernie is not enough. We need hundreds of them.
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sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #675 on: November 05, 2019, 12:05:09 AM »
Sanders, and to a certain extent, Warren have to beat the DNC before they can face Trump. Biden is not as formidable an opponent to them as the DNC.

sidd

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #676 on: November 05, 2019, 01:09:14 AM »
^^
I think we passed by the world's last chance some decades ago, without so much as a whimper.


What's being determined now is whether our descendants spend their years searching for food in an increasingly hostile world, or spend their short brutish lives trying to avoid radioactive hot spots.


Ignoring Ike's final warning probably sealed the world's fate. :(  Hansen's ignored address to congress simply capped the timeline & illuminated an alternative method of bringing about our extinction. :-X


Pax Americana was a beautiful dream that rapidly devolved into an endless nightmare. America's next president can't undo what his predecessors have done - at least not within the time allotted.


Which candidate can dismantle the hideous Department of War, even while unraveling a century of capitalistic excess thickly spread across the various nations and cultures of the world? - and accomplish all of this while AGW increasingly disrupts the climate that nurtured civilization.


We need a lasting peace and willing cooperation across the world today.
We needed an end to global CO2 emissions some time ago.
We may hope for some form of palliative care, but the time for a cure was in the last century.
Terry

Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #677 on: November 05, 2019, 01:12:49 AM »
It's Bernie against the machine. There is no excuse for not supporting him.
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #678 on: November 05, 2019, 01:32:47 PM »
I would support him in a heartbeat if he supported the weakest humans of all, babies in the womb.
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #679 on: November 05, 2019, 01:50:56 PM »
He does in many ways, indirectly, and much better than people who promise to do so directly (to get your vote).
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #680 on: November 05, 2019, 02:43:17 PM »
I'll support which ever dem gets the nom, but i'll be holding back tears and frustration if it isn't bernie
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #681 on: November 05, 2019, 03:53:39 PM »
Don't bother. If it isn't Sanders, all hope is lost. Dems are corrupt to the core, just like Republicans. In the long run, it doesn't matter who rules. It's Sanders or nothing.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #682 on: November 05, 2019, 04:20:58 PM »
I would support him in a heartbeat if he supported the weakest humans of all, babies in the womb.

Unborn babies aren't the weakest humans though. They are one of many weakest groups of humans that need protection.
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #683 on: November 07, 2019, 04:43:13 PM »
Tulsi’s Limited Anti-imperialism ft. Abby Martin

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #684 on: November 08, 2019, 01:47:26 AM »
Gabbard qualified for the November debate in the last few days, so we're still at 10 candidates. Only O'Rourke and Castro are missing from last month's 12.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #685 on: November 08, 2019, 05:39:40 PM »
OMFG, what a shitshow. How is Biden any better than your average bigot Republican Joe?

Biden Says Warren’s An “Elitist” While He Sucks Up To Wealthy Donors

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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #686 on: November 08, 2019, 06:33:54 PM »
Great piece, comrades!

Quote
Why We Want to Abolish Billionaires: Hard work doesn’t get you a billion dollars — rent extraction, financial speculation, resource monopolization, and exploiting working people does. We don’t envy the superrich, we want to stop them.

Link >> https://jacobinmag.com/2019/11/billionaires-inequality-labour-party-wealth/
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #687 on: November 08, 2019, 07:08:46 PM »
A funny thing happened.

Another neoliberal centrist entered the stage. The third billionaire for this run. You can't make this shit up.

Prepare for Biden's numbers in the polls to drop further!

I'm starting to really like this primaries.
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #688 on: November 09, 2019, 12:02:15 AM »
Gabbard qualified for the November debate in the last few days, so we're still at 10 candidates. Only O'Rourke and Castro are missing from last month's 12.
Good to hear!
Should widen the scope of the debate & might draw out some candidates WRT their positions re. regime change coups, or the advisability of fighting for our oil - that's presently under their sand. ::)


I don't think anyone believes that she can win a chance to run as a Presidential candidate, but she'd be an asset as the Vice Presidential candidate on almost any ticket. If the DNC decides that it needs the help of Progressive Democrats in November, placing Tulsi in the second slot could motivate voters that otherwise might sit this one out.


With Tulsi running we can't entirely rule out the possibility of Peace in our Time.
Terry

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #689 on: November 09, 2019, 07:42:09 AM »
Terry, i'm trying to imagine this. You think there are progressive voters who wouldn't vote for Sanders, but Gabbard? Why would that be?
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #690 on: November 09, 2019, 03:02:41 PM »
OMFG, what a shitshow. How is Biden any better than your average bigot Republican Joe?

Biden Says Warren’s An “Elitist” While He Sucks Up To Wealthy Donors



It will be hard for Warren to counter elitism when she was a Harvard professor and her election team is made up of ivy leaguers.  By contrast, Delaware looks rather modest.  Image is a major factor in politics, and this branding could her.  Less in the primaries, where large numbers of similar-minded voters will side with her, but more so in a general election (if she were to get that far), where the centrists makes up most of the electorate.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #691 on: November 09, 2019, 03:43:21 PM »
I agree Warren will have a hard time defending herself on that front. As an ex-Republican even more so.

That Trump will bring that up was a given to me. Biden doing it shows what camp he is in (hint: the hypocritical camp).

There is a candidate though, who is not at all considered to be a member of the establishment class and therefore has an inherent advantage. Better to place your bets on that one. :)
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #692 on: November 09, 2019, 04:55:36 PM »


It will be hard for Warren to counter elitism when she was a Harvard professor and her election team is made up of ivy leaguers.   

I don't think this is a major obstacle.  A large fraction of US presidents were Ivy Leaguers, including Obama and both Bushes.  There is certainly a current of anti-intellectualism in American culture, but it's rarely focused specifically at Ivy League schools. 

In addition, Warren has cultivated a very folksy manner, and speaks very often about challenges of being a working mother, as well as her Oklahoma roots.  Relentlessly focusing on the abuses by the Wall Street banksters gives her strong anti-elitist cred.  It's very hard to paint her as elitist, especially with a (claimed) billionaire in the White House, and one or two billionaires in the Democratic field.

Calling Warren an elitist for having taught at Harvard is rather like calling Sanders a Washington insider, for having been in Congress for decades.  In both cases, the substance of the slur is rather absurd.

Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #693 on: November 10, 2019, 03:38:44 AM »
That is just part of it.  His criticism of her include her “if you were only as smart as I am, you would agree with me” attitude.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #694 on: November 10, 2019, 07:39:04 PM »
Bernie Sanders Surges In Polls. Tops Every Policy Category.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #695 on: November 10, 2019, 08:19:13 PM »
More numbers:

Bernie's Unique 2020 Edge That Nobody Is Talking About

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Neven

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Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #697 on: November 11, 2019, 02:50:15 PM »
Those polls are interesting, but in the end, they do not matter.  The only poll that matters is the vote tally.  Even the video admitted that in the polling of registered voters, Sanders trails - and by a lot.  Most have him third, but double digits.  I maintain that the only way the Sanders can win the nomination, is for Warren to drop out and supprot him.  I do not envision that happening.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #698 on: November 11, 2019, 05:16:35 PM »
I'm really surprised that Harris imploded as she did.

Any theories on that?
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #699 on: November 11, 2019, 07:11:49 PM »
I'm really surprised that Harris imploded as she did.

Any theories on that?

I believe it can be found on the same coin as her rise; the debates.  She shone in the first debate, and her attacks on Biden resonated quite well with many.  She came out unscathed because she was not one of the front runners.  By the second debate, the other candidates took her seriously, and she found herself defending some of ther past actions.  Her poor performance and the realization that she was more glitz than substance, led to her fall.  IMO