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Author Topic: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?  (Read 40395 times)

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #700 on: November 11, 2019, 07:26:00 PM »
Although her bad performance (i.e as a prosecutor (i.e. put poor people into prison when they went to work to feed their kids and couldn't watch their kids at the same time)) was public knowledge before the debates, i take that argument. I have no other one. ;)
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Ktb

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #701 on: November 12, 2019, 11:27:09 AM »
I'm really surprised that Harris imploded as she did.

Any theories on that?

Whether or not you believe her is one thing, but when she laughed and made jokes about smoking weed in college while doing PR on a radio show AND THEN put people in jail for small amounts of marijuana just showed how disingenuous she really was. I found that disgusting.
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sedziobs

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #702 on: November 12, 2019, 04:02:29 PM »
Gabbard with 6% in today's Quinnipiac New Hampshire poll, good for 5th place (top 4 below). She's just one poll away from qualifying for the December debate. Biden, Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, Harris, and Klobuchar have already qualified. Gabbard, Yang, and Steyer need one or two more polls in the next month or so.

Biden 20%
Warren 16%
Buttigieg 15%
Sanders 14%

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #703 on: November 12, 2019, 04:25:01 PM »
I found that disgusting.

Thanks for pointing it out, Ktb. I completely agree.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #704 on: November 12, 2019, 07:16:56 PM »
The most attentive readers of this thread might have picked up that i like Bernie because he is so stubborn and consequent on the issues.

Bernie Sanders returned $470 from the only billionaire who donated to his campaign

Link >> https://theweek.com/speedreads/877890/bernie-sanders-returned-470-from-only-billionaire-who-donated-campaign

QED!
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #705 on: November 12, 2019, 09:06:55 PM »
Sanders Calls Out Warren's Terrible Medicare For All Plan


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TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #706 on: November 12, 2019, 09:44:27 PM »
Gabbard with 6% in today's Quinnipiac New Hampshire poll, good for 5th place (top 4 below). She's just one poll away from qualifying for the December debate. Biden, Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, Harris, and Klobuchar have already qualified. Gabbard, Yang, and Steyer need one or two more polls in the next month or so.

Biden 20%
Warren 16%
Buttigieg 15%
Sanders 14%
I'm unsure whether Tulsi is running for a chance to challenge for presidency, or for a chance to influence the debates & possibly be chosen as a VP partner. We need a candidate that's serious about peace.


Her expertise is strongest WRT foreign policy, and having her on the ticket could shore up any perceptions of foreign policy weakness that every candidate with the exception of Biden might face. Her progressive credentials are also strong and there is the very real possibility that the DNC will shove a Corporate Democrat into the top position & find that they need someone on the ticket to keep the Progressive Democrats from sitting out the election.


I'd find a possible Saunders/Tulsi ticket to my liking, but could be persuaded to support almost any Democratic ticket that included either in either position. Tulsi's age relative to the leaders is another positive.


I personally detest Biden and would have a difficulty supporting him regardless of whom he was partnered with. I still feel that Warren would lose the election, primarily because of her Pocahontas baggage. She says many of the right things, but Trump and the Republicans will beat her like an overstuffed pinata.


I'm Canadian and have enough troubles with our elections. The wife's Canadian Citizenship hasn't come through yet but she's determined to sit this one out, though if Tulsi or Saunders should appear on the ballot I might be motivated to try to change her mind.
Terry

sedziobs

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #707 on: November 12, 2019, 10:45:03 PM »
It seems like Tulsi's anti-establishment rhetoric will prevent her from teaming with anyone but Sanders, a pairing that wouldn't do much to build a coalition. She could pair with Yang, but I think they're both in the same boat (neither has a realistic shot at the top of the ticket). I want to see Gabbard and Yang stick around through all of the pre-Iowa debates to keep their issues at the forefront, but then I wouldn't mind some consolidation.

Buttigieg's recent success is good for progressives in my opinion. He has moved more to the center and taken from Biden's supporters in the early states. Buttigieg actually topped today's Iowa poll. It's important to prevent Biden from winning Iowa because he's polling ahead in South Carolina by huge margins. 

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #708 on: November 12, 2019, 11:37:21 PM »
^^
Raman!


Keeping Biden in check is imperative.
Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #709 on: November 16, 2019, 06:41:13 AM »
Bernie Leading Nationally - 5 New Democratic Primary Polls

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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #710 on: November 17, 2019, 08:19:52 AM »
Do you have something real against Buttigieg or just here for the slander?

Wow, he is even a bigger fraudster than i thought!

Pete Buttigieg's Shameful Ploy To Grow South Carolina Support

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bbr2314

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #711 on: November 17, 2019, 08:34:13 AM »
Bloomberg / Buttigieg is a winning ticket

Bloomberg has the muscle to outspend everyone else by leagues and miles, and while silly Democrats think this won't make a difference, he only had to spend $179 a voter to win his last mayoral election in NYC.

Bloomberg could spend $50 billion on the election and still have 5-10 billion leftover. More reasonably, he could spend $6 billion, outmatching Trump's 2016 spend by 10:1, and probably win handily. I think he could spend as little as $2-3 billion for a win -- the combined Hillary / Trump raise in 2016 was just shy of $2B.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #712 on: November 17, 2019, 08:57:21 AM »
I notice, Bbr, you are talking about money. Wanna talk about politics?

As a Trump guy, do you want this ticket, because is's a losing ticket?
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bbr2314

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #713 on: November 17, 2019, 09:23:04 AM »
I notice, Bbr, you are talking about money. Wanna talk about politics?

As a Trump guy, do you want this ticket, because is's a losing ticket?
I am not a Trump guy, I am a NOT BERNIE OR WARREN guy, I would vote for Bloomberg in a heartbeat, I don't think I would vote otherwise unless it was against Warren / Bernie.

If you have not been paying attention, politics is money.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #714 on: November 17, 2019, 09:43:54 AM »
What's the difference between Bloomberg and Trump politics wise?

I have news for you: None that would possibly make any difference.

So logically, any Bloomberg guy is also a Trump guy.
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bbr2314

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #715 on: November 17, 2019, 10:13:31 AM »
What's the difference between Bloomberg and Trump politics wise?

I have news for you: None that would possibly make any difference.

So logically, any Bloomberg guy is also a Trump guy.
Bloomberg is a major advocate for action re: climate change, he is also very socially progressive. Bloomberg's legacy in NYC was fantastic.

Comparing the two and saying they are the same belies a deep ignorance and an unreasonable hatred for those who have money, whether they have earned it or not. Bloomberg is a self-made man. He did not get handouts.

If you think Bloomberg and Trump are the same on policy, I suggest you do some cursory Google-ing on Bloomberg's legacy -- I do not have the time or the will to advocate on behalf of a billionaire, but I do believe in his ability to restore the status quo, and I think that if you actually looked into the issues, you would find Bloomberg would be a great asset for the American people.

bbr2314

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #716 on: November 17, 2019, 10:27:32 AM »
I think the reaction by some on the left re: Bloomberg shows they actually don't really dislike Trump at all. To say they are the same man is to admit one would not vote for Bloomberg over Trump, or rather, that one has no problem with Trump in the White House over someone who is immensely qualified for the position.

This reveals a deep hatred brewing in the left-wing of American society. It shows that they actually enjoy Trump. They like being angry. They like hating. They like having a lightning rod at which they can scream and bluster.

Removing Trump won't change any of this. They will still bluster and scream and shout. And as the socialists have done elsewhere, they will destroy this country as well, if given permission. It has already begun in places like NYC and California, where anemic participation in local elections has resulted in a crop of illegitimate socialists who could make Stalin blush with their predilection for their way, or the highway. 

B_lumenkraft is not a Democrat, or a liberal. He is an angry, illiterate socialist whose only goal is chaos and misery for all. Because he is an angry, sad human being, everyone else should also be angry and sad. The same can be said for the majority of the far-left Democrats.

This is very sad. But what can I do about it? Educating them won't change anything because they cannot be educated, they are clinically stupid. So I suppose I will simply ignore them. Let them froth and rage. But do not be mistaken -- these people are the very reason Trump was elected, whether they voted for him, or not. They feed on anger, it is their only sustenance. And that is why they would not vote for a dyed-in-the-wool centrist who could restore the policies of the Obama and Clinton eras over Donald Trump. Because they actually don't even dislike Trump. They love him. They love to hate! It is sick. Truly, disgustingly, sick.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #717 on: November 17, 2019, 10:55:01 AM »
Bloomberg is a major advocate for action re: climate change

So he is not an utter moron. Good for him i guess.

Quote
he is also very socially progressive. Bloomberg's legacy in NYC was fantastic.

Fantasticly well for rich people you mean?

Quote
Comparing the two and saying they are the same belies a deep ignorance and an unreasonable hatred for those who have money, whether they have earned it or not.

Well, comparing Sanders and Warren and saying they are the same belies a deep ignorance when you look at the politics.

Quote
Bloomberg is a self-made man. He did not get handouts.

There is no such thing. He was able to accumulate wealth because others did the work for him. He used infrastructure others paid for. He's exploiting the workforce which was educated with tax money. He is a lucky guy, that's it!

And instead of giving back to society he chose to run as president so he can avoid the giving back part. Just as Trump.

Quote
If you think Bloomberg and Trump are the same on policy, I suggest you do some cursory Google-ing on Bloomberg's legacy

Neoliberal die-hard capitalist? Check!

Quote
-- I do not have the time or the will to advocate on behalf of a billionaire,

Are you not aware that you are doing just that? LOL

Quote
but I do believe in his ability to restore the status quo

What status quo do you want? The Reagan/Obama/Bush status quo. How do they differ in politics? Marginally!

In the great scheme of things, they are similar in the most important points. American interventionism, neoliberal capitalism, white-supremacy, millions of deaths domestic and foreign by perusing these politics.

Most Americans don't want that anymore. And the rest of the word had it for long.
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Ktb

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #718 on: November 17, 2019, 11:28:31 AM »
B_lumenkraft is not a Democrat, or a liberal. He is an angry, illiterate socialist whose only goal is chaos and misery for all. Because he is an angry, sad human being, everyone else should also be angry and sad. The same can be said for the majority of the far-left Democrats.

This is very sad. But what can I do about it? Educating them won't change anything because they cannot be educated, they are clinically stupid. So I suppose I will simply ignore them. Let them froth and rage. But do not be mistaken -- these people are the very reason Trump was elected, whether they voted for him, or not. They feed on anger, it is their only sustenance. And that is why they would not vote for a dyed-in-the-wool centrist who could restore the policies of the Obama and Clinton eras over Donald Trump. Because they actually don't even dislike Trump. They love him. They love to hate! It is sick. Truly, disgustingly, sick.

Before I say this, I read and enjoy a lot of Bbr's posts in other parts of this forum.

That being said: Nice ad hominem attack. Fuck you and your diatribe.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #719 on: November 17, 2019, 11:47:56 AM »
What a snowflake, eh Ktb? ;)
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #720 on: November 17, 2019, 11:57:19 AM »
Bbr, if you are holding beliefes such as interventionism is bad, or that neoliberalism is a flawed economic system, or if you uphold human rights and equality, if you oppose corruption and money in politics, if you think no one should die from a lack of healthcare, then you are just a normal person, not a bad American.

Look at the damn polls.

Why do you hate your fellow countrymen so badly?
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TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #721 on: November 17, 2019, 04:54:28 PM »
bbr
Before accusing others of spewing hate, you might want to review your own post(s).
Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #722 on: November 17, 2019, 07:48:35 PM »
Does Traditional Polling Perpetually Underrate Bernie?


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bbr2314

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #723 on: November 17, 2019, 08:32:08 PM »
I feel like the past few replies only bolster the notion that many on the far left are exceedingly angry (and nothing else), and that they would indeed pick Trump over Bloomberg by virtue of non-participation should Bloomberg win the D nomination. Saying I am the angry one here is the ad hominem attack.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #724 on: November 17, 2019, 08:43:23 PM »
I am going on 62 years old. BOTH the Left and the Right are overflowing with anger as I never saw before.
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Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #725 on: November 18, 2019, 03:12:25 AM »
I couldn’t agree with you more.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #726 on: November 18, 2019, 10:37:20 AM »
Yes, i am angry!

I am angry that there are kids in cages. I'm angry that literal nazis rule the US. I'm angry the conservatives trash the planet. I'm angry that lies are seen as facts. I'm angry that people are sentenced to death because they are poor.

And when you guys aren't angry about all that, you need your fucking head checked!
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #727 on: November 18, 2019, 01:51:10 PM »
If people are taking AGW seriously and are not angry to some degree or other, they are not really taking AGW seriously.

Maybe at some point I'm going to ban everyone from this forum who I feel doesn't take AGW seriously. Some of them will be right-leaning, others will be left-leaning, because let's face it, denial runs deep, regardless of tribe.

Currently, Sanders is the only option to be the Democratic nominee and president. If he doesn't become both, there is zero hope of improvement for the US and for the world. It has to start somewhere, and this is it, right here, right now. Everything else is just business as usual.

Any American on this forum who takes AGW seriously, has the moral imperative to vote for Sanders. Not doing so, would be unforgivable.

It really is as simple as that.
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oren

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #728 on: November 18, 2019, 02:49:49 PM »
Currently, Sanders is the only option to be the Democratic nominee and president. If he doesn't become both, there is zero hope of improvement for the US and for the world. It has to start somewhere, and this is it, right here, right now. Everything else is just business as usual.

Any American on this forum who takes AGW seriously, has the moral imperative to vote for Sanders. Not doing so, would be unforgivable.

It really is as simple as that.
It really is. Thank you Neven for stating it so clearly.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #729 on: November 18, 2019, 04:33:16 PM »
Word!
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #730 on: November 18, 2019, 05:01:33 PM »
Neven, I think any American has a moral imperative to vote for the candidate endorsed by Right To Life. It is as simple as that. Not someone said to be working "indirectly" to reduce abortions. That is like someone in 1940 Germany working to "indirectly" reduce anti-semitism or someone in 1850 United States working to "indirectly" reduce slavery. And you cannot do evil that good will result.
If you wish to ban me for that, so be it.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #731 on: November 18, 2019, 05:58:29 PM »
American has a moral imperative to vote for the candidate endorsed by Right To Life.

Well, Tom, this is not a moral, but your religious imperative.

When you put fundamental religious imperatives on others, that's called sharia law.
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #732 on: November 18, 2019, 06:28:12 PM »
You are putting your imperative on preborn babies.
Fatally so.
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #733 on: November 18, 2019, 06:36:18 PM »
Tom, does every woman that you value agree that you should make her reproductive decisions?   

Neven, likewise for your position.  I suppose every person you value agrees that you should prioritize their political considerations?

I think we need the broadest possible coalition of compatible ideology.  Unfortunately Tom, your ideology is tightly aligned, at least in the US, with those in the other party.  And a full-throated campaign effort on AGW will likely lose more votes than it gains.  Its better to have the conversation that science is good, and we will follow where the science takes us.   Notwithstanding that the results are in and the time for action is now.  You cannot take action if you do not have the power.  The candidate must have a portfolio of ideas and aggregate a plurality with those ideas.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #734 on: November 18, 2019, 07:10:28 PM »
You are putting your imperative on preborn babies.
Fatally so.

No, i don't. As you know this is not a topic i feel i have a say at all. So my imperative, in this case, is that it's not my damn business (since i'm male).
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #735 on: November 18, 2019, 07:13:30 PM »
No, every women that I value does not agree with me on this, but I value them for other reasons.
Sharia law would be if I tried to outlaw contraceptives (note: contraceptives, not early abortifacients). Before conception, there is not a human life involved. So I would not try to outlaw them, even though they are sinful. Skipping Sunday Mass is sinful, too, but I ain't gonna mandate that!. Killing an fetus or embryo because it is inconvenient is like killing a two year old because it keeps crying. After all, chimpanzees and dolphins are as smart as two year old, so two year olds are not human, right?
EDIT: Also, cognitivebias2, you are right about the mess American politics is in.
Maybe there should be a BAU Party, a pro-life environmental Party, and a prochoice environmental Party.
But then there would be three candidates for POTUS, and about 145 members of each party in the House, and we'd never get a POTUS.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #736 on: November 18, 2019, 07:20:18 PM »
You are putting your imperative on preborn babies.
Fatally so.

No, i don't. As you know this is not a topic i feel i have a say at all. So my imperative, in this case, is that it's not my damn business (since i'm male).

As long as you are a voter, you have a say. Saying it is none of your business is the cowards way. It is like saying I'm not a Nazi or Jew so I have no say in antisemitism, or I'm not a slave or slaveowner so I have no say in Slavery, in my earlier two examples.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #737 on: November 18, 2019, 07:20:36 PM »
Killing an fetus or embryo because it is inconvenient

This might have happened once or twice in the history of mankind.

If you seriously think this is a decision made out of convenience, i don't even know what to say anymore. This, Tom, is sinful! How dare you?
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #738 on: November 18, 2019, 09:14:41 PM »
How much inconvenience makes it justifiable to kill someone? While the Death Penalty is theoretically licit in extreme circumstances, such circumstances do not, to my knowledge, exist in the world of 2019. It is wrong to kill a serial child rapist-murderer when you can lock him away for life. If that does not justify killing someone, what does?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #739 on: November 18, 2019, 09:22:29 PM »
There are many justifiable reasons for abortion. There are more facets to protecting human rights than this religious fundamentalism focusing on abortion.

I end this here. This is fruitless anyway.
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CognitiveBias

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #740 on: November 18, 2019, 09:24:12 PM »
No, every women that I value does not agree with me on this, but I value them for other reasons.

Yet you are still ok with attempting to force your values on them.  So you value them but do not respect them?  I get that many believe that this is not a topic on which rational people can disagree.  Still some decisions are just not yours to make. 

There are so many injustices in the world.  I think many of them are worse than to have never known life.  To focus so narrowly on this one injustice is to ignore the rest. 




bbr2314

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #741 on: November 18, 2019, 09:32:30 PM »
I don't understand why people here think Tom is not entitled to his opinion. I may disagree with Tom on this issue but I think he is allowed to have a separate opinion and I can respect his reasoning for this opinion. Screaming at him etc is not going to change his opinion. So let him have his viewpoint!

bbr2314

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #742 on: November 18, 2019, 09:35:57 PM »
If people are taking AGW seriously and are not angry to some degree or other, they are not really taking AGW seriously.

Maybe at some point I'm going to ban everyone from this forum who I feel doesn't take AGW seriously. Some of them will be right-leaning, others will be left-leaning, because let's face it, denial runs deep, regardless of tribe.

Currently, Sanders is the only option to be the Democratic nominee and president. If he doesn't become both, there is zero hope of improvement for the US and for the world. It has to start somewhere, and this is it, right here, right now. Everything else is just business as usual.

Any American on this forum who takes AGW seriously, has the moral imperative to vote for Sanders. Not doing so, would be unforgivable.

It really is as simple as that.
If reducing aerosols and CO2 results in an acceleration of the +SWE trends across North America (where they are most prominent), Americans would actually have a moral imperative to vote for Trump. I understand this viewpoint is controversial but history demonstrates that the Younger Dryas and other sustained advances in continental SWE have first impacted North America.

Paradoxically, this means we must actually support the agents behind AGW. It is easy for Greta to say America should stop polluting when Eurasia's glacial advance will be decades or centuries behind North America. It is not so easy for North Americans to say "we will sacrifice our continent so that Greta can frolic in meadows somewhere else while we starve and die".

Basically, we are extremely screwed and there is nothing we can really do about it, so blaming it on politicians or believing they can make a difference when we have already unleashed an event in the making that could fall somewhere between the Younger Dryas and the KT impact in terms of global significance, is completely folly. As is this entire thread. LOL. We are screwed and pretending we can do something about it is somewhat worse than acknowledging what may be impending and planning for a societal back-up as everything around us collapses.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #743 on: November 18, 2019, 09:51:43 PM »
CognitiveBias:
Once a child is conceived it already knows life. And you are forcing your values on them. Fatally.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #744 on: November 18, 2019, 10:09:03 PM »
I don't understand why people here think Tom is not entitled to his opinion. I may disagree with Tom on this issue but I think he is allowed to have a separate opinion and I can respect his reasoning for this opinion. Screaming at him etc is not going to change his opinion. So let him have his viewpoint!

To get the record straight, Tom is the one proposing for forbidding things, not me. In case you have problems understanding basic logic again.
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bbr2314

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #745 on: November 18, 2019, 10:21:41 PM »
I don't understand why people here think Tom is not entitled to his opinion. I may disagree with Tom on this issue but I think he is allowed to have a separate opinion and I can respect his reasoning for this opinion. Screaming at him etc is not going to change his opinion. So let him have his viewpoint!

To get the record straight, Tom is the one proposing for forbidding things, not me. In case you have problems understanding basic logic again.
I did not say you were, but tom is entitled to his viewpoint even if both of us disagree with it 

This entire thread is analogous to an election on the titanic where the primary issue is fixing a leak. In fact the leak is a gaping chasm, it is unfixable, and the ship is going down whether or not an attempt to fix the leak is made.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #746 on: November 18, 2019, 10:43:11 PM »
I am in favor of forbidding prenatal murder. I am also in favor of forbidding rape, slavery and other violations of basic human rights.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #747 on: November 18, 2019, 11:23:28 PM »
American has a moral imperative to vote for the candidate endorsed by Right To Life.

Well, Tom, this is not a moral, but your religious imperative.

When you put fundamental religious imperatives on others, that's called sharia law.

Are you implying that the U.S. was under sharia law prior to 1972?  What about the rest of the world.  You can disagree respectfully and without making wild accusations.  Your posts are a similar, but opposite, attempt to force your values on others.  Take a step aside and try to view it objectively.

Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #748 on: November 18, 2019, 11:39:00 PM »
If one is serious about Right To Life, one is also serious about AGW. If one is serious about AGW and lives in the USA, one has the moral imperative to vote for Bernie Sanders. Not because he's perfect, or because everything will be super easy to solve once he is president, but because there is simply nobody out there that comes even close to him on the issues that matter to the majority of Americans, including AGW.

As for the discussion on abortion: You can try to prevent people from committing sins, through economic and social justice, the empowerment of women, good adoption programmes, etc. That's all fine.

But you cannot outlaw sins. If the God of the Bible exists, people will be punished for their sins. Let God take care of it. You are not God, and many of the unintended consequences of trying to outlaw sins will be perceived by Him as sins themselves, and the people involved will go to Purgatory for it.

Sin doesn't have much, if anything to do with AGW. It's a concrete thing, not some abstract, theological, philosophical idea that can be debated. It's about pragmatism, just like the things you do to prevent your house from burning down (with your kids in them, some of them unborn).

If ASIF members cannot agree that Bernie Sanders needs to be the Democratic nominee and then the president, or are unwilling to act accordingly, they are not serious about AGW, and I don't want people who are not serious about AGW to be members of the ASIF any longer. Which means I kindly ask those people to leave this forum and spend their time elsewhere, a place where it's okay not to be serious about AGW (there are many).

PS I don't want to see any debates about abortion.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #749 on: November 18, 2019, 11:56:40 PM »
Neven, the reason I voted for Trump was solely[/b on the abortion issue.
You brought up voting for Bernie, implying that anyone who would not vote for him (like me) is worse than a Nazi who rapes and kills children in his off-hours.
If you don't want to debate abortion with people like me, then don't demand that we all vote for Bernie. And I won't debate abortion, then.
And if you should not pass a law if it cannot wipe out what you are legislating against, then you should not pass any[/b laws.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS