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Author Topic: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?  (Read 41266 times)

Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #800 on: November 24, 2019, 01:10:43 AM »
Polls don't make predictions, models do. Nate Silver's model gave Clinton less than a 70% chance in November 2016, and gave Democrats only a 19% chance of winning the Senate in 2018. So you must be thinking of someone else, Klondike Kat.

Quote
Just last week, Nate Silver’s polls-only forecast gave Hillary Clinton an overwhelming 85 percent chance of winning. But as of Thursday morning, her odds have fallen down to 66.9 percent — suggesting that while Donald Trump is still the underdog, there’s a one-in-three shot he’ll end up the next president. Liberals have tried to comfort themselves with the knowledge that FiveThirtyEight is an outlier among the six major forecasts, and that the other five give Trump between a 16 percent and a sub-1 percent chance of winning.
...
So how likely is it that there will be either a polling error (either nationwide or in enough states to tip the scale) or a last-minute swing the polls simply don’t have time to pick up on (again, either nationwide or in enough key states)? All the other models are essentially telling us that given the data we have, these scenarios are very unlikely to transpire — but Silver’s is warning not to count it out.
...
Other models are leaning more towards assuming that with so much polling in so many states showing Clinton narrowly ahead, it’s highly unlikely that they’ll all be wrong in the same way. But Silver’s model thinks a “miss” in national polling would likely be reflected in swing states too — even states that have been considered part of Clinton’s “firewall” up until now
vox.com/2016/11/3/13147678/nate-silver-fivethirtyeight-trump-forecast

fivethirtyeight.com/2018-midterm-election-forecast/senate/

No, it was definitely Nate Silver, and the Senate was 2016, not 18.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/11/06/nate_silver_forecasts_showing_clinton_with_99_chance_of_winning_dont_pass_commonsense_test.html


sedziobs

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #801 on: November 24, 2019, 02:04:04 AM »
LOL. Did you read your own article? The title is literally Nate Silver: Forecasts Showing Clinton With 99% Chance of Winning "Don't Pass Common-Sense Test".

Silver had Democrats with a 50.7% chance of winning the Senate in 2016. Not 70%.
fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/senate/?ex_cid=2016-forecast

Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #802 on: November 24, 2019, 03:41:07 AM »
LOL. Did you read your own article? The title is literally Nate Silver: Forecasts Showing Clinton With 99% Chance of Winning "Don't Pass Common-Sense Test".

Silver had Democrats with a 50.7% chance of winning the Senate in 2016. Not 70%.
fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/senate/?ex_cid=2016-forecast

I guess you are right about the presidency.  was not Nate Silver.  However, one week before the 2016 election, he did give the Democrats a 70% chance of winning the Senate, as your link shows.  I guess that makes us even.

sedziobs

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #803 on: November 24, 2019, 04:29:01 AM »
Yes, I suppose it depends on how we define "just before" as in Tom's post. Six days before the election it was 68.9%, three days before it was 50.2%. Quite a change.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #804 on: November 24, 2019, 01:58:38 PM »
Too many of Sanders' opponents are running on an unproven narrative that he's not "electable." Do better, Democrats

Link >> https://www.salon.com/2019/11/24/quit-saying-that-bernie-sanders-cant-win-he-may-be-the-most-electable-democrat-running-in-2020/
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oren

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #805 on: November 24, 2019, 07:46:21 PM »
So with Bloomberg now in the race, are Bernie's chances lower? I hope not but I fear yes.

sedziobs

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #806 on: November 24, 2019, 08:17:18 PM »
I think higher. I welcome as many moderates as possible at this point. The effect should be to dilute Biden/Buttigieg vote.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #807 on: November 24, 2019, 08:45:45 PM »
I would say it depends on Iowa.

If Buttigieg or Biden wins Iowa and Bernie comes in second, that wouldn't hurt Bernie for later primary elections too much i guess. Biden or Buttigieg winning and Bernie 3rd or 4th would though.

Bloomberg coming in somewhat highish, say 4/5th, that would take too many votes from Biden and Buttigieg. Bernie would profit directly.

That we even have to talk about these lying hacks like Buttigieg and Bloomberg is a fucking shame.

It might though show how awefully lost the centrists are - which would be a good thing.
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sedziobs

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #808 on: November 24, 2019, 09:08:27 PM »
Iowa is a caucus, not a primary. After one round, candidates who receive less than 15% are eliminated and voting moves to a second round. It's unlikely that more than 4 candidates will win delegates in this format, so I don't think Bloomberg will have much of an effect in Iowa. That's why I think the rise of Buttigieg is so important - we need at least one centrist to finish above 15% and split the Biden vote.

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #809 on: November 25, 2019, 01:21:36 PM »
Are Bernie & Tulsi still the only candidates to call Morales ouster a coup?


I still believe that pairing them up makes a symbiotic ticket. Rather than trying to appease the right with a centrist to "balance" a ticket with a strong left leader, the correct strategy may be to ignore the Right and the Center and win by growing and exciting the left.


I believe the same strategy wins the election. Lots in both parties are burned out on Trump. If it wasn't for Hillary's "Russia Gate", followed by Pelosi's "Impeachment" fiasco, Trump's numbers would be so low that he might have declined the nomination, or the RNC might not have offered it.


Building an unabashedly progressive ticket that offers the programs that most Americans need and want - possible when both candidates are funded at a real grassroots level - can sweep in a Democratic Executive pair into power that are as far from center to the Left as Trump and Pence are to the Right.


The Center will swing toward the Healthcare, Pacifist, Climate Centric ticket despite the ideological differences of some. Both candidates are likeable, both are strong campaigners. Their policies are very similar but otherwise they're miles apart.
Tulsi defends against shots coming from Republican women's groups the Military and those bent on attacking old white men.
Bernie provides a strong ideological backbone and the gravitas that every winning ticket needs.


It's a winning ticket if Bernie can only survive the primaries. Tulsi can be of assistance even at this early stage by attacking the other front runners.
The problem as I see it is that the DNC wants a close race to keep donations flowing. A Bernie/Tulsi ticket could just walk away from Trump/Pence leaving a lot of money out of the race.
Terry


blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #810 on: November 25, 2019, 05:02:01 PM »
Joe Biden Gives Up, Tells Activist To Vote TRUMP


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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #811 on: November 26, 2019, 08:07:22 PM »
Or this:

Bloomberg running as an independent if Bernie wins the nomination so that he can suck enough democratic/independent votes from Bernie to ensure a Trump win.

Holy shit ...  :-[
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #812 on: November 26, 2019, 08:21:02 PM »
Quote
CNN analyst and Politico’s Chief Washington Correspondent Ryan Lizza claimed in an article, Tuesday, that former President Barack Obama had privately said he “would speak up to stop” 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (D-VT) if he “were running away with the nomination.”

The ruling class is panicking hard.
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Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #813 on: November 26, 2019, 09:41:28 PM »
I do not foresee Bloomberg getting enough votes to influence the election.  That may not stop him from trying.  With regards to Obama, he will side with Biden.  That is simply were he stands politically.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #814 on: November 26, 2019, 11:21:08 PM »
Quote
That is simply were he stands politically.
You mean where he stands?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #815 on: November 26, 2019, 11:24:46 PM »
Quote
That is simply were he stands politically.
You mean where he stands?
Yes.  Isn’t spellcheck wonderful?

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #816 on: November 27, 2019, 12:37:56 AM »
Quote
That is simply were he stands politically.
You mean where he stands?
Yes.  Isn’t spellcheck wonderful?
Dependent on whether weather where we're waiting wears out our outer wear. ???
Wearying wearing wording, wow!
Stick that into your spellcheck & smoke it. 8)
Terry

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #817 on: November 27, 2019, 01:02:12 AM »
I think my spellcheck would start smoking with that!
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #818 on: November 27, 2019, 01:18:56 AM »
I think my spellcheck would start smoking with that!
How much would would a spell check check if a spell check could check would?


A spell check would check as much would as a spell check could check if a spell check could check would.


Terry

sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #819 on: November 27, 2019, 09:11:52 AM »
"Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a quay and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
It's rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
It's letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew."

http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/martha-snow.html

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TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #820 on: November 27, 2019, 11:01:35 AM »
Raw Men!!
Terry ::)

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #821 on: November 27, 2019, 05:13:45 PM »
Bernie Surges +13 in New Emerson New Hampshire Poll - New Democratic Primary Poll!

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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #822 on: November 27, 2019, 05:53:00 PM »
Dependent on whether weather where we're waiting wears out our outer wear. ???
Wahrlich wahnwitzige Wortwucht wirkt bei jedem Wetter! Warum Wäsche wechseln?

(P.S.: translate.google.com isn't that bad on this, except I would translate "Wortwucht" as "verbal inertia" instead of simply "verbiage". Retranslating into German again a classical failure of automatic translators... with final (fixpoint) retranslation losing the clothes.)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 06:09:58 PM by Florifulgurator »
Google image search on my avatar image gives "wood". In fact it is the lower part of David Hilbert's tombstone.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #823 on: November 27, 2019, 06:04:13 PM »
Heinz Erhardt Alles mit 'G'


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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #824 on: November 27, 2019, 06:56:26 PM »
Heinz Erhardt Alles mit 'G'

Göttliches vom größten Germanisten seit Goethe!

Shows that German remains the ultimate language of the G. Richard Wagner already proved it in Das Rheingold: "Garstig glatter glitschriger Glimmer!". But Heinz Erhardt gives the paradigm: "Gesäß getroffen!".
Google image search on my avatar image gives "wood". In fact it is the lower part of David Hilbert's tombstone.

sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #825 on: November 28, 2019, 01:37:51 AM »
Corporate sellout defends legacy: Sanders must be stopped !

"if Bernie were running away with the nomination, Obama would speak up to stop him"

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2019/11/26/barack-obama-2020-democrats-candidates-biden-073025

Reed was prescient in his appraisal of Obama in 1990s. I shan't repeat Harry Belafonte's  term for the man, but i find an astonishing number of my more ... melanin endowed ... friends  agree with Harry.

sidd

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #826 on: December 01, 2019, 09:41:57 AM »
Republicans Embrace Joe Biden

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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #827 on: December 01, 2019, 02:45:21 PM »
A new report offers hard evidence for what you already suspected: MSNBC is riding hard against Bernie.

Quote
... Of the three candidates, Sanders was least likely to be mentioned positively (12.9% of his mentions) and most likely to be mentioned negatively (20.7%). The remaining two-thirds of his mentions were neutral . . . Warren had the lowest proportion of negative coverage of all three candidates (just 7.9% of all her mentions) and the highest proportion of position mentions (30.6%) ...

Link >> https://jacobinmag.com/2019/11/corporate-media-bernie-sanders-bias-msnbc-warren-biden
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #828 on: December 03, 2019, 07:34:40 PM »
Anybody voting for this is not in his/her right mind:

Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #829 on: December 03, 2019, 07:40:55 PM »
I'm seriously getting an ad for a "Patientenverfügung" (living will) with this video!  ;D

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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #830 on: December 03, 2019, 07:43:38 PM »
+++ BREAKING +++

Quote
Sen. Kamala Harris Drops Out Of Presidential Race

+++ BREAKING +++
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #831 on: December 06, 2019, 04:29:42 PM »
Presidential material indeed. #not

Biden Calls Voter ‘Fat’ & 'Too Old' During Tense Exchange

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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #832 on: December 07, 2019, 05:44:07 AM »
Presidential material indeed. #not

Biden Calls Voter ‘Fat’ & 'Too Old' During Tense Exchange

[...]
6:59min ff is essentially continuing TrumPutin's narrative. Of course the balance now needs to shift a bit into the direction of facts, but the effect is the same: Distraction and vote suppression - even while the narrator pretends to warn of that. Good stuff. :)

So, since some are still complaining about Biden Jr.'s job in Ukraine, let's look at wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burisma_Holdings
Quote
As of 14 October 2019, the members of the board of directors, in order of seniority, are Alan Apter, Aleksander Kwaśniewski, Joseph Cofer Black , Karina Zlochevska, Christina Sofocleous, Riginos Charalampous, and Marina Pericleous.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 05:51:59 AM by Florifulgurator »
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sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #833 on: December 07, 2019, 07:01:51 AM »
Cofer Black completely lost it after 2001. Watching him in the hearings was quite revealing, although perhaps not quite the way he intended.

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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #834 on: December 07, 2019, 08:36:16 AM »
6:59min ff is essentially continuing TrumPutin's narrative.

What do you mean, Martin?

You don't find it odd that the son of Biden gets money from a Ukrainian FF company? Doesn't smell like corruption to you?

So here is Biden, ranting and yelling. Did he say why it's legit? Did he make an argument that he is not corrupt? Of course not. He's sitting so high on his throne...

Der getroffene Hund bellt.


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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #835 on: December 07, 2019, 05:25:41 PM »
6:59min ff is essentially continuing TrumPutin's narrative.

What do you mean, Martin?
"Biden corrupt" (Corollary: "Trump no worse".)

Quote
You don't find it odd that the son of Biden gets money from a Ukrainian FF company? Doesn't smell like corruption to you?
On 2nd thought and superficial inspection, nope, not at all. They want to get rid of their past image of corruption. (*)  Thus they hire well-known western names. (Yeah, heck, just like I was once hired for having a German "Dipl. Math." which looks pretty on the business card of the otherwise incompetent QM. (I gathered the job competence later.))
I haven't looked into Hunter Biden's qualification, but I strongly suspect he didn't get hired for the name alone. That would be Polish ex president Aleksander Kwaśniewski who also is(was?) on the Burisma board - and apparently got better pay than Hunter Biden. (And heck, 50000$ is not a biog deal. Depends on the expenses account. Do we know any detail?)

Quote
So here is Biden, ranting and yelling. Did he say why it's legit? Did he make an argument that he is not corrupt? Of course not. He's sitting so high on his throne...

Der getroffene Hund bellt.
Maybe he is sick and tired of the same old shit? The fat man was in fact a stupid asshole - but that's what many voters are. Indeed Joe Biden seems to have failed explaining stuff.  He looks a bit Hillary-ish or Merkel-ish to me: loss of connection to the simpletons.

But then, what else could he say to fat man? Sometimes emotion is a more productive response to the criminally stupid who don't care about facts and context. (**)

(There is a video of Hunter Biden explaining stuff. Check it out if you care. Will google it later.)

P.S.:

------------------------
(*) Some nations are trying very hard to get better ranking on the Corruption Perceptions Index. (E.g. I've seen that with a project in Algeria, which is ranked slightly better than Ukraine: They didn't contract Siemens (a classical German tech company) - nope because Siemens was perceived too corruption prone.)

So, you see a blatant, almost ridiculous, example of projection in the Trumputin Ukraine narrative: Putin and his Ukrainian oligarch buddies want their good old corrupt Ukraine back. And somehow Trump is eager helping them.

-------------------
(**) In fact I've been advocating this for many many years in the "climate debate": Shame & ridicule is the only productive response to the denial complex. The epistemiologically challenged can only be convinced by hacking at their ego pretzel :). (***) Apologizing in advance, the Barvarian .Net-DaDaist Frankenstein in me/us can't help but present the following result of an Artificial Intelligence torture session:
« Last Edit: December 08, 2019, 04:35:52 AM by Florifulgurator »
Google image search on my avatar image gives "wood". In fact it is the lower part of David Hilbert's tombstone.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #836 on: December 07, 2019, 05:40:26 PM »

You don't find it odd that the son of Biden gets money from a Ukrainian FF company? Doesn't smell like corruption to you?

Hunter seems to have cashed in on his dad's status.  That smells, but it happens with most wealthy/powerful/famous families.  Not just in politics, but business, show business, everywhere.  Offspring get a massive leg up.  Inherited privilege is toxic, but there's no reflection on Joe Biden in particular.  If we called this situation "corruption," we'd have to prosecute all the wealthy and famous families everywhere.

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #837 on: December 07, 2019, 06:01:31 PM »
Steve, when it comes to corruption, when it smells, it's already too corrupty!
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #838 on: December 07, 2019, 06:20:35 PM »
Steve, when it comes to corruption, when it smells, it's already too corrupty!

Bernie Sanders son, Levi, ran for Congress.  His main qualification seems to have been being Bernie's son.

Is that more or less "corrupty" than Hunter Biden taking a seat on a Board of Directors?

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #839 on: December 07, 2019, 07:54:05 PM »
Having the same job then your dad is not corruption. Obviously!  ::)
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #840 on: December 07, 2019, 07:57:16 PM »
And he ran without his fathers endorsement and it failed (just like Piquet jr would love to be as good as his dad but will always be remembered for crashgate) whereas Biden jr landed some nice paying job he was not really qualified for.

I would go for less.

Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #841 on: December 07, 2019, 08:03:06 PM »
And he ran without his fathers endorsement and it failed (just like Piquet jr would love to be as good as his dad but will always be remembered for crashgate) whereas Biden jr landed some nice paying job he was not really qualified for.

I would go for less.

I'm sure Hunter didn't have his father's endorsement to land the job.  Neither one needed an official endorsement for the positions sought.  Hunter seems to have had plausible professional credentials.  So the only cited difference seems to be that one succeeded in landing the position, the other didn't.  This makes one more ethical than the other?

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #842 on: December 07, 2019, 09:04:38 PM »
Well you don´t know the first statement. I actually really do not care much about this subject but i wonder about the plausible credentials. Could you list them?
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #843 on: December 07, 2019, 09:19:46 PM »
Well you don´t know the first statement. I actually really do not care much about this subject but i wonder about the plausible credentials. Could you list them?

A detailed description of his professional background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden

My point isn't that kids getting cushy jobs because of who their fathers are is fine.  My point is that if we adopt a standard that such advancement is corrupt, then we have to condemn Bernie Sanders and most wealthy/famous/powerful parents on the planet.  That's not how our society defines corruption.

Beyond this, just as a child shouldn't be condemned for the actions of a parent, a parent shouldn't be condemned for the actions of an adult child.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #844 on: December 08, 2019, 06:03:25 AM »
Maybe he is sick and tired of the same old shit?

That's ridiculous.

He wants to be the fucking president but can't answer a legit question? He just can't handle the mildest criticism, this is a pattern with him.

He is ready for a retirement home, not a high office. Period!


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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #845 on: December 08, 2019, 02:04:37 PM »
Steve, if you are seriously going to try and defend the Bidens here (which is strategically a really dumb move, never mind the fact that it's indefensible), I would kindly ask you to move to some MSNBC forum.

Biden is corrupt, just like Trump is. Denying this, or proposing lame excuses, just makes the wound fester more and longer (helping Trump).

Bernie's son didn't receive 50K a month for running for Congress, and he actually had to put in some work, unlike coke-sniffing sociopath Hunter Biden. Don't make these inane analogies, or I will help you move to a place that is more suited to establishment narratives (which is 95% of the Internet).

Sanders is the only viable option for the US presidency. Period. If anybody wants to express dissent on this matter here, my suggestion is to go somewhere else where they tolerate people who aren't serious about AGW.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #846 on: December 08, 2019, 03:10:33 PM »
Steve, if you are seriously going to try and defend the Bidens here (which is strategically a really dumb move, never mind the fact that it's indefensible), I would kindly ask you to move to some MSNBC forum.

My point wasn't to defend Biden.  My point was that in evaluating any candidate, the sins of an adult child aren't relevant.  Biden has serious substantive flaws, those should be the basis of discourse.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #847 on: December 08, 2019, 04:12:21 PM »
Never, if Bernie does not get the nomination, as the only option would you support him running as an Independent?
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #848 on: December 08, 2019, 04:21:54 PM »
My point wasn't to defend Biden. My point was that in evaluating any candidate, the sins of an adult child aren't relevant.

Maybe they aren't relevant (even though, as you point out, they point to structurally corrupt nepostism), but they become relevant when swept under the rug, denied or justified even. 'Because Trump'.

What you do, is go: Yes, Bidens are corrupt, as is Trump, and as are most people in Washington. They are all servants of concentrated wealth, and that's why they need to be smoked out, and measures need to be taken to deconcentrate wealth. Only Sanders offers a glimpse of hope of accomplishing that. Nobody comes even close to offering that glimpse.

Problem solved, no need to grasp for inane analogies.

Quote
Biden has serious substantive flaws, those should be the basis of discourse.

That discourse has been over for a long time now, as far as I am concerned. Biden is corrupt to the bone and as flawed a candidate as Hillary Clinton was.
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #849 on: December 08, 2019, 04:22:46 PM »
Never, if Bernie does not get the nomination, as the only option would you support him running as an Independent?

I would support any way that would get him the presidency, but I'm not American, so my support is largely irrelevant.
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