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Author Topic: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?  (Read 83042 times)

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #900 on: December 27, 2019, 07:38:22 PM »
Really excellent analysis here by David Doel.

Corporate Democrat Accidentally Endorses Bernie 2020


sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #901 on: December 27, 2019, 10:20:28 PM »
Sanders interview at latimes:

"[Trump] is going to be a very, very strong candidate. He certainly has a very strong base. He will have unlimited amounts of money to campaign on. He is a pathological liar. He will merge in an unprecedented way agencies of government with his campaign, because he doesn’t particularly believe in the rule of law. So he is going to be a very, very tough opponent."

"the key to this election is can we get millions of young people who have never voted before into the political process"

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-12-26/bernie-sanders-medicare-homelessness-trump

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TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #902 on: December 28, 2019, 12:21:27 AM »
^^
This indicates that in Sander's view Trump hasn't alienated enough voters to assure his defeat, unless the voting demographic is changed in time for the election.
I think it's a reasonable observation, but it seems as though Trump's actions as President, his aggression against China, his walking away from the Paris accords, his overt racism, should be enough to assure defeat at the polls.


The DNC apparently is alienating voters as rapidly as Trump is. Imagine what a hopeless position the Democrats would be in if Trump wasn't such a flawed candidate, running on such a flawed Presidential record?
If the DNC can't win this one in a walkaway, which they apparently can't, how could they be expected to win against reasonable opposition. Pelosi and all of her underlings need to be purged. The Democrats need to return to their base, or they'll never win an election except when the Republican candidate's campaign implodes.


We can't count on the RNC to select losing candidates with unpopular programs. We need to run winning candidates with platforms that the majority of Americans favor, even when these platforms are counter to the demands of our present donors.


Fighting "squeakers" brings in the most donations, and this appears to be the DNC's objective.
I'd rather win by a huge margin because my party offered, and delivered the services that most Americans want.
Terry
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 06:02:36 PM by TerryM »

Ktb

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #903 on: December 28, 2019, 02:16:13 AM »
It boils down to what you can swallow.

If my options are the right, the far right, or 3rd party, than I’m going 3rd party.

If my options are center/center left, the far right, or 3rd party, than I will be going center/center left.
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #904 on: December 28, 2019, 08:54:19 AM »
Quote
If my options are center/center left, the far right, or 3rd party, than I will be going center/center left.

But 'center/center left' is right in the US! In fact, it's even worse. It's neoliberal, and neoliberalism (the nr 1 philosophy of concentrated wealth) is the major reason the world is in the state it's in. You can't vote for a continuation of that. So, please, if you are willing to vote third party in certain situations, do so as well when your only option is voting for a corporate neoliberal who is not substantially going to change anything. Because you will lose another 4-8 years for nothing! At least try to protest!

Your attitude is what assures the cheaters they can stab Sanders in the back again. They need to win your vote. Don't give it away so cheaply. It's Sanders or nothing.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #905 on: December 28, 2019, 09:16:27 AM »
Quote
If my options are center/center left, the far right, or 3rd party, than I will be going center/center left.

But 'center/center left' is right in the US! In fact, it's even worse. It's neoliberal, and neoliberalism (the nr 1 philosophy of concentrated wealth) is the major reason the world is in the state it's in. You can't vote for a continuation of that. So, please, if you are willing to vote third party in certain situations, do so as well when your only option is voting for a corporate neoliberal who is not substantially going to change anything. Because you will lose another 4-8 years for nothing! At least try to protest!

Your attitude is what assures the cheaters they can stab Sanders in the back again. They need to win your vote. Don't give it away so cheaply. It's Sanders or nothing.

No, Neven. It's vote-blue-no-matter-who or else we get another 4 years of Trump.

The worst choice (apart from voting Trump directly) would be to vote third party, or not vote at all, because that's how Trump won in 2016.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #906 on: December 28, 2019, 07:04:05 PM »

Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #907 on: December 28, 2019, 08:48:15 PM »
No, Neven. It's vote-blue-no-matter-who or else we get another 4 years of Trump.

Keep voting for neoliberal shills and you'll see much, much worse and dangerous than Trump. Things aren't standing still, you know. People voted Clinton and Obama into office, but things only got worse for them (because Bill and Barack served concentrated wealth, and not the people). The Trump presidency is a reaction to that.

Vote-blue-no-matter-who is the dumbest and most destructive attitude possible.

Quote
The worst choice (apart from voting Trump directly) would be to vote third party, or not vote at all, because that's how Trump won in 2016.

That's not how Trump won at all. I know you live in a bubble where you have zero contact with poor Americans, but the least you could do, is stop spreading Corporate Democrat misinformation. More people would have voted Trump than Clinton if Jill Stein and Gary Johnson hadn't been third party candidates, or wouldn't have voted at all.

But even following your twisted logic: If third parties had that much power, maybe candidates would do well to listen to them, and offer things like medicare4all instead of fracking4all? Why are you blaming third parties, when it's the fault of the candidates forwarding policies that aren't popular enough with the American people (because they serve concentrated wealth)?

Either way, this is all moot. Sanders is the only one who can beat Trump and offer a path forward. None of the others can, especially the centrist/corporate democrats, because they are beholden to concentrated wealth and will make things even worse than they already are. It's as simple as that, unless you're unable to see through political theatre.
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sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #908 on: December 28, 2019, 10:48:43 PM »
Goodman interviews Moore: we’re not going to tolerate you sending us another Republican-lite Democrat

"if the election were held today that President Trump would win a second term"

"What we have to do is we have to make sure we don’t give them another Hillary Clinton"

"Ninety thousand wanted to send a message to the Democratic Party: "You forgot us a long time ago out here, and we will not put up with this anymore. We’re not going to vote for Trump, but we’re not going to tolerate you sending us another Republican-lite Democrat,'"

"Will they come out and vote for a centrist, moderate candidate. I don’t think that is going to happen. They’re going to come out and vote for the fighter, for the person that shares their values."

"There’s really nobody in that middle"

" there were 90,000 people in Michigan, almost 90,000, who went to the polls, mostly Democrats, in very large numbers of them, in Detroit, Flint, Pontiac, Saginaw — these are all black cities, majority black. They stood in line in the cold for two to three hours to vote. They went in there, and they voted for state rep, state Senate, county commission. We don’t have dog catcher. We have drain commissioner, the person in charge of the sewage. That’s the lowest name on the ballot. They stood there. They voted for the Democrats all down ballot and left the top box blank. She only lost Michigan by 10,000, 11,000 votes. Ninety thousand wanted to send a message to the Democratic Party: “You forgot us a long time ago out here, and we will not put up with this anymore. We’re not going to vote for Trump, but we’re not going to tolerate you sending us another Republican-lite Democrat.” "

"Bernie has no future. No offense, if he’s watching. I mean, live long and prosper. But let’s just admit, he’s in the final quarter of his life. You know? And he’s willing to give up his final years to fight so that these 18-to-35-year-olds will have a future. AnBernie has no future. No offense, if he’s watching. I mean, live long and prosper. But let’s just admit, he’s in the final quarter of his life. You know? And he’s willing to give up his final years to fight so that these 18-to-35-year-olds will have a future. And they know that. That’s why they’re for him. And they know that. That’s why they’re for him."

"maybe we owe it to these young people to get behind the person they want. It’s their future. That’s our responsibility."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/12/26/michael_moore_predicts_2020_trump_victory_trumps_level_of_support_has_not_gone_down_one_inch.html

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Rob Dekker

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #909 on: December 29, 2019, 09:52:13 AM »
No, Neven. It's vote-blue-no-matter-who or else we get another 4 years of Trump.

Keep voting for neoliberal shills and you'll see much, much worse and dangerous than Trump.

You are scaremongering.

Quote
Things aren't standing still, you know. People voted Clinton and Obama into office, ...

Isn't it interesting that you forgot that Bush was elected in between ?

Quote
Vote-blue-no-matter-who is the dumbest and most destructive attitude possible.

Here is a reality check : In 2016, many Democrats who wanted Bernie but did not get him stayed at home, or voted Jill Stein.

As a result, Democrats had fewer votes, and Trump won the election.

You want that to happen again in 2020 ?

Quote
Quote
The worst choice (apart from voting Trump directly) would be to vote third party, or not vote at all, because that's how Trump won in 2016.

That's not how Trump won at all. I know you live in a bubble where you have zero contact with poor Americans, but the least you could do, is stop spreading Corporate Democrat misinformation. More people would have voted Trump than Clinton if Jill Stein and Gary Johnson hadn't been third party candidates, or wouldn't have voted at all.

That is nonsense, Neven.
Trump is destroying every possible environmental protection that Obama put in place, and favors coal over renewable energy.
If you find me ONE Green Party voter who would vote Trump over Clinton, you let me know...

Quote
Either way, this is all moot. Sanders is the only one who can beat Trump and offer a path forward. None of the others can, especially the centrist/corporate democrats, because they are beholden to concentrated wealth and will make things even worse than they already are. It's as simple as that, unless you're unable to see through political theatre.

I love Sanders, and have been sponsoring him since 2016. He is my favorite and I told this many times.

But if he does not win the 2020 primaries, then we should :

VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO

Otherwise we get another 4 years of Trump.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 10:25:06 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #910 on: December 30, 2019, 06:34:41 PM »
CNN's Moment Of Clarity: "Bernie Has A Realistic Shot"


TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #911 on: December 31, 2019, 06:11:53 AM »
218 reasons to not vote for Buttigleg & his $600K "security detail"


Hint - the spooks love him & he apparently reciprocates.


https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/30/coup-plotters-cia-agents-mayor-pete-endorsers/


Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #912 on: December 31, 2019, 08:59:11 AM »

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #913 on: December 31, 2019, 09:52:16 AM »
Well, he was elected to four terms and served little more than three.
But Truman was re-elected, so if FDR had survived (he wouldn't have been subject to term limits, IIRC) he might have made five elections.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #914 on: December 31, 2019, 10:08:56 AM »
Thanks, Tom, for pointing that out. :)

In other news, here another display of Yang being a right-winger.

Honestly, there can be only one reason for him taking this stands: This guy is politically illiterate. Otherwise, i don't see why he is running as a Democrat.

Yang Doesn't Push Back On Fox Lies About Dems Hating The Rich


sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #915 on: January 01, 2020, 01:32:20 AM »
Biden doing a Hilary ? Coal miners should learn to code.

“Anybody who can go down 3000 feet in a mine can sure as hell learn to program as well... Anybody who can throw coal into a furnace can learn how to program, for God’s sake!”

https://gizmodo.com/biden-to-coal-miners-learn-to-code-1840735758

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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #917 on: January 01, 2020, 03:34:30 PM »
When you're in jeopardy, and you don't even know it


blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #918 on: January 01, 2020, 06:28:06 PM »
Bernie Sanders: I will not have a Republican as vice president

Link >> https://news.yahoo.com/bernie-sanders-not-republican-vice-220357500.html

Ktb

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #919 on: January 02, 2020, 07:57:31 AM »
Bernie Sanders: I will not have a Republican as vice president

Link >> https://news.yahoo.com/bernie-sanders-not-republican-vice-220357500.html

Sigh. What an easy win.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #920 on: January 03, 2020, 02:48:54 PM »
Hey, Terry! Do you copy? :) ;)

Have you heard what Yang said about Assange?

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #921 on: January 03, 2020, 03:48:40 PM »
^^
No. I've had a rough week & haven't been keeping up with much. Save me a search and let everyone know what Yang's been spouting.


BTW Has anyone heard from nanning lately?
Terry




blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #922 on: January 03, 2020, 04:27:59 PM »
Of course, he is pro whistleblower but in this particular case he thinks Assange endangered like everyone and their dog. In short, he spreads lies and right-wing talking points.

Now, guess who's not surprised (hint: rhymes with grumenkraft).



RE Nanning: Nope. :(

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #923 on: January 03, 2020, 11:46:57 PM »
^^
The more I learn about Yang the less I like him.


I hope nanning's OK. Living poor ain't always easy.
Terry

sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #924 on: January 04, 2020, 12:49:46 AM »
Sanders ground game: bring out the nonvoters

"We can win this Democratic nomination, but we can’t do it without increased involvement in the political process"

“On caucus night, turn on the TV early, and if the moderator tells you there’s a large voter turn out, we win. If they tell you there’s a low voter turnout, we lose. It’s really as simple as that.”

deep dive. Worth reading.

https://theintercept.com/2020/01/03/bernie-sanders-democratic-party-2020-presidential-election/

sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #925 on: January 04, 2020, 04:18:19 AM »
much, much worse and dangerous than Trump.
You seem to have no idea what Trump and friends are doing. Drain the swamp, hahaha.
Google image search on my avatar image gives "wood". In fact it is the lower part of David Hilbert's tombstone.

Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #926 on: January 04, 2020, 02:52:54 PM »
much, much worse and dangerous than Trump.
You seem to have no idea what Trump and friends are doing. Drain the swamp, hahaha.

So, your solution is to vote another neoliberal puppet in? You are okay with just these two choices? Because that's what the establishment counts on. Just swallow it and shut up, right?
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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #927 on: January 04, 2020, 04:02:30 PM »
You are okay with just these two choices?
I would prefer a multi party system, of course. But the U.S. system is by its mathematically primitive design a 2-party half-democracy. We have seen that often enough: Green votes are effectively GOP votes. Ask Al Gore and Ralph Nader... That system needs to be changed first. Right now they can't even tackle gerrymandering.

By equating Dems and Reps (a false equivalency IMHO) you effectively work for Trumputin. With your lofty polit-theoretical demands you are pushing the worst neoliberal available (even if the Donald has no idea of economic theories) PLUS the most corrupt one PLUS the most incompetent one PLUS a Putin puppet. Maggie Thatcher at least read the neoliberal bible...

Quote
Just swallow it and shut up, right?
To the contrary.

It's the stupid voters over-represented by a stupid vote counting system. Yes stupid, stunningly stupid they can be. Even Bernie Sanders can't tell the difference between social democracy and democratoc socialism. They need some eloquent basic education... The only good thing with Trump: People are getting more politically active and don't swallow it anymore. E.g. without Trump no AOC.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 04:18:16 PM by Florifulgurator »
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #928 on: January 04, 2020, 04:34:34 PM »
AOC said herself multiple times it was Bernie who politicized her.

So, it's 'without Bernie, no AOC'. :)

Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #929 on: January 04, 2020, 06:51:41 PM »
AOC said herself multiple times it was Bernie who politicized her.

So, it's 'without Bernie, no AOC'. :)
Actually it was the Dakota Access Pipeline :)

Quote
[...]An activist she knew at Standing Rock, where indigenous activists were leading a demonstration against the construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline, told her the camp could use more women. So the then-27-year-old Ocasio-Cortez and two friends set up a GoFundMe page, loaded up a car full of supplies, and set out for South Dakota.

Still shaken by the election of President Donald Trump, they brought a camera and logged hours of footage talking with people along the way—small business owners in Ohio, housing experts in Flint, Michigan. They made it to the high plains before Christmas and then lived for weeks among Standing Rock’s water protectors in a tent with a wood-burning stove. Ocasio-Cortez was seeking a “first-person idea of what was going on” in America, she told me when we spoke last fall. What she found was that “militarized corporations” were taking over parts of the country, unchecked by political powers.
[...]
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/06/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-upset-joe-crowley-dsa-brand-new-congress-1/
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #930 on: January 04, 2020, 07:43:12 PM »
... Even Bernie Sanders can't tell the difference between social democracy and democratoc socialism...

I didn't know the difference, either.  I looked it up.  A democratic socialist probably can't win in America in a general election.  A social democrat could.

Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #931 on: January 04, 2020, 11:15:18 PM »
A democratic socialist probably can't win in America in a general election.  A social democrat could.
Exactly my little problem with Bernie. He is a mainstream social democrat for European standards. But I'm not yet sure about his electability in the polarized, polarizing and primitive polit culture of the U.S.
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sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #932 on: January 05, 2020, 10:02:30 AM »
Karp at Jacobin: Warren will not save the Democratic party

"This fundamental shift — from the party of Humphrey to the party of Schumer — remains the most important American political development that confronts the Left today. It is no accident that the decline of class voting has corresponded with fifty years of retreat for American workers: stagnant wages, accumulating debt, and increasing precarity, even as corporate profits have soared. Nor is it a coincidence that even popular two-term Democratic presidents in this era, elected by such dealigned class coalitions, have proven unable or unwilling to push for structural reforms on anything like the scale of the New Deal era, even after facing the biggest economic crash since the Great Depression."

"Democrats now control every single one of the country’s twenty richest congressional districts."

"it’s a rerun of the Obama presidency, which let the Bush tax cuts expire, passed the stimulus, and expanded Medicaid, thus proving to captive observers like Paul Krugman that “progressive policies have worked.” Meanwhile, in the real world, the housing crisis destroyed working-class wealth, inequality kept soaring, and poverty remained entrenched."

"It is perfectly suited to the spirit of today’s proceduralist progressives — Rachel Maddow Democrats whose first and strongest instincts are to outlaw, invalidate, or somehow disqualify their opponents rather than to defeat them in popular struggle."

"politics under a President Warren would almost surely resemble politics under Obama: careful negotiations between progressive professionals and stakeholders in Washington, in which the president seeks the least-worst outcome in a world of narrow and fixed constraints. An infinite variety of Yglesiases and Krugmans will luxuriate in the nuance, integrity, and ferocity of Warren’s bold progressive agenda, even as fundamental economic structures remain unchanged. And then they will be shocked, just shocked, when the next Donald Trump swaggers into the White House and blows it all to bits."

:The gaps between Warren and Sanders supporters are stark, especially considering their purported similarities in policy and ideology. According to Politico’s September poll averages, Warren underperforms with voters making less than $50,000 by a greater margin than seven of the top eight Democrats in the race; Sanders overperforms with the same group by the highest margin the field."

"the core of Bernie’s support comes from voters with a far more urgent material interest in the social-democratic programs he proposes, and a far clearer position in the class struggle that he has helped bring to the fore. Among California voters making under $40,000, Sanders had more support than Warren and Joe Biden combined; he also led both rivals among all voters who didn’t go to college."

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/10/future-liberals-want-matt-karp-populism-class-voting-democrats

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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #933 on: January 05, 2020, 03:02:12 PM »
Neven (or anyone else pushing hard for Sanders):
How sure are you that Bernie will walk the walk and not just talk the talk?
I remember when Obama was elected and he rejoiced that now the seas would stop rising. How did that turn out?
The one POTUS who half heartedly fought AGW (though it was more Peak Oil at the time) was Carter, and that contributed to his being a one term POTUS.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #934 on: January 05, 2020, 03:21:48 PM »
Neven (or anyone else pushing hard for Sanders):
How sure are you that Bernie will walk the walk and not just talk the talk?

I was never so sure about a politician than with this guy. He is the definition of being constantly on the right side of history.

And it's not only about him. He has a huge grassroots movement. People willing to march for the issues. If anything, only this coalition is able to actually change things for real, for good, and for the better.

Quote
I remember when Obama was elected and he rejoiced that now the seas would stop rising. How did that turn out?

I spotted Obama as a liar before he was elected. It was all empty phrases with him. It was an extremely unpopular position to have in Germany. Everyone loved him back then, they all believed him.

With Bernie, it is all very tangible. Solid plans with the right answers instead of hot air.

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #935 on: January 05, 2020, 07:57:52 PM »
^^
Congrats on seeing through Obama so early.
After 40+ adult years in the country I simply believed he was unelectable due to his skin colour.


His election certainly indicated that millions overcame intergenerational prejudice to vote against more Bush or Clinton Politics. His failures, particularly in his second term brought us Trump.


Bernie is this cycle's Not-a-Clinton, Not-a-Bush, Not-an-Obama, Not-a Trump. Every other frontrunner in the race is stained with bitter reminders of past presidencies. If he can get past the DNC he can win when it counts. (I still think Tulsi is his perfect running mate - if not Tulsi who?)


Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #936 on: January 06, 2020, 06:40:01 AM »
if not Tulsi who?

There are approximately 235mio Americans who would be better candidates IMHO.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #937 on: January 06, 2020, 10:40:55 PM »
What Decades Of Primary Polls Tell Us About The 2020 Democratic Presidential Race
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-decades-of-primary-polls-tell-us-about-the-2020-democratic-presidential-race/
Quote
But according to our analysis, someone polling around where Biden was in the second half of the year has roughly a 35 percent chance of claiming the Democratic nomination. A 1-in-3 chance isn’t great, but this is still better than, say, Bernie Sanders’s or Elizabeth Warren’s chances. They essentially tied for second, with an unadjusted polling average around 16 percent in the second half of the year, which historically has meant a 10 percent chance of winning.
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #938 on: January 07, 2020, 11:17:37 AM »
By equating Dems and Reps (a false equivalency IMHO) you effectively work for Trumputin.

This is at the core of our disgreement. What I do, is equate Corporate Democrats and Republicans. And because the Democratic Party is dominated by Corporate Democrats and has been since Bill Clinton took office, things have gotten to the point where they are now. All the other stuff you mention, plays a role as well, but this is central.

This is the reason I opened the thread called The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out, because it is crucial that Republicans in Democrats' clothing are sidelined.

And that's why it's absolutely crucial that Sanders and no one else becomes the Democratic nominee and then president. And that's just the start.

Any Blue will not do. It will simply not do. Don't fall for it. Take a stand. Take a principled stand.
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TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #939 on: January 07, 2020, 01:58:20 PM »
^^
Ramen!
If you liked Hillary, you'll love Biden. :P


Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #940 on: January 07, 2020, 04:49:45 PM »
What I do, is equate Corporate Democrats and Republicans.

One can do so in many aspects of politics, Neven. But there are topics where even the most conservative corporate democrat is better than the most liberal republican.

I agree with the quoted sentence when it comes to economics. But when it comes to social security, for example, the Dems are remarkably better for decades now. Which, of course, means not that it's good politics but still quite distinguishable from the Reps.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #941 on: January 08, 2020, 12:52:52 AM »
Biden has called to cutting social security thrice:

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/05/17/joe-biden-has-called-for-social-security-cuts-3-ti.aspx

This in addition to loosening credit card interest controls, making student debt undischargable in bankruptcy, supporting war ...

Whatta a guy. Surely better than any republican right ? Can't go wrong with the senator from MBNA !

sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #942 on: January 08, 2020, 11:10:30 AM »
One can do so in many aspects of politics, Neven. But there are topics where even the most conservative corporate democrat is better than the most liberal republican.

Look, they are both serving concentrated wealth. Words like 'conservative' and 'liberal' don't mean anything in this context. Those are just masks to conceal what is being done.

Quote
I agree with the quoted sentence when it comes to economics. But when it comes to social security, for example, the Dems are remarkably better for decades now. Which, of course, means not that it's good politics but still quite distinguishable from the Reps.

Let's assume that what you say, is true (sidd just showed you it isn't, but nevermind).
What is more important, social security or economics?
Let me rephrase that: What is social security without economics?
Let's say you're voted in on a promise of 'hope' and 'yes, we can', but you fill your cabinet with Goldman Sachs managers who make sure the banks get bailed out, nobody goes to prison, and while bonuses are re-instated at the speed of light, millions of homeowners get evicted.
How do you make up for that through social security measures?
You don't, and you don't care. Because you serve concentrated wealth, not the American people.

And as for 'Dems are remarkably better for decades now', are Dems now remarkably better than Dems decades ago, let's say, during the FDR era? No, they aren't. They have effectively become Republican-lite, like Obama has bragged. So, if Corporate Democrats are effectively Republican-lite, what do Republicans have to do to differentiate themselves? Why, go further right, of course.

It's all a scam, and the only way to break through the downward spiral, is to first sideline Corporate Democrats, get them out of positions of power, and shift back that Overton Window. There's only one person who can do that, and has in fact been doing that, and that's Bernie Sanders. None of the others can do it, and so any Blue will and must not do!

If people don't see this, they are on the wrong forum.
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Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #943 on: January 08, 2020, 11:49:39 AM »
Neven:
Forget FDR, just go back to Carter with his sweaters and solar panels.
And there was still time then to make a difference on AGW.
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #944 on: January 08, 2020, 01:04:45 PM »
Neven:
Forget FDR, just go back to Carter with his sweaters and solar panels.
And there was still time then to make a difference on AGW.

I was reacting to Blumenkraft whose point was that "when it comes to social security, for example, the Dems are remarkably better for decades now". Regardless of whether you take FDR or Carter as a starting point, there is no doubt that the Democratic Party has become progressively worse (read: more Republican) over the decades. And that's because neoliberal ideology (which is the most efficient ideology to serve concentrated wealth) has taken over the party, and Corporate Democrats have effectively betrayed the working class, and thus American society at large.

You don't revert that by voting for the lesser evil and pronouncing that 'any Blue will do'. And if you don't try to revert it, you might as well quit.
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #945 on: January 08, 2020, 06:32:49 PM »
Well, those people who get their food stamps cut as we speak would disagree i guess.

And the plans to cut social security already surfaced. I bet this will be done within this legislation period.

I can't think of a valid argument for Dems to do such things.

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #946 on: January 08, 2020, 06:41:57 PM »
Well, those people who get their food stamps cut as we speak would disagree i guess.

And the plans to cut social security already surfaced. I bet this will be done within this legislation period.

I can't think of a valid argument for Dems to do such things.


I can't either, but Bill Clinton certainly ran roughshod over those on welfare.
He flew a Blue Flag as I remember.
Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #947 on: January 08, 2020, 06:58:39 PM »
Right, Biden is the same kind! But they didn't succeed against the party lines.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #948 on: January 08, 2020, 09:02:41 PM »
Making shit up from a continent away? Clinton did some aweful stuff and the party lines were not drawn around that area because they were all fine with it.

How does the senate vote?
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #949 on: January 09, 2020, 12:19:52 AM »
Right, Biden is the same kind! But they didn't succeed against the party lines.

So, the party is fine, but somehow only its leaders, only the presidents and vice presidents are corrupt, neoliberal shills serving concentrated wealth (just like the Republicans)? No, these people own the Democratic Party together with their army of consultants and lobbyists. They need to be fought just as hard, or even harder, than the Republicans, because they are the first and biggest hurdle to systemic changes that only Bernie Sanders and his mass movement can potentially start working towards. You can't even properly fight the Republicans or Trump when you are covering for corrupt Democrats.

On topic: We know Sanders is one of few Democrats who will truly resist Trump on his Iran-warmongering, but has he finally started to take the gloves off with regards to the neoliberal stooges?



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