Author Topic: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020? (Read 182121 times)

Tom_Mazanec · « **Reply #950 on:** January 09, 2020, 01:05:50 AM »

Neven:
Even if Bernie gets in the White House, do you think he can change things? One POTUS once said “ I give orders and nothing happens.”. With all the institutional hindrances will Sanders just beat his head against a wall?

sidd · « **Reply #951 on:** January 09, 2020, 01:20:26 AM »

Corporate democrats getting the chills: Sanders might win the primary, can't have that

https://wgme.com/news/nation-world/fears-of-sanders-win-growing-among-democratic-establishment

sidd

sidd · « **Reply #952 on:** January 09, 2020, 09:50:33 AM »

Not just corporate democrats: billionaires getting cold feet

“I think it’s Bernie Sanders becoming more believed in as a real force, and we have to start taking him more seriously,"

“The risk markets and the financial markets broadly will have to deal with the fact that there could be a scare that Bernie Sanders is starting to become a plausible candidate for nomination of the Democratic Party,”

"the 60-year-old billionaire investor gained some notoriety for accurately predicting that Trump would win the 2016 election, before the primaries had concluded."

“I seriously do not believe Joe Biden is going to win the nomination. "

https://www.aol.com/article/finance/2020/01/08/billionaire-jeffrey-gundlach-says-the-biggest-risk-for-markets-in-2020-is-a-bernie-sanders-win/23897020/

Poor, poor, Gundlach. Whatcha gonna do when they come for you ?

sidd

Neven · « **Reply #953 on:** January 09, 2020, 11:14:32 AM »

Quote from: Tom_Mazanec on January 09, 2020, 01:05:50 AM

Neven:
Even if Bernie gets in the White House, do you think he can change things? One POTUS once said “ I give orders and nothing happens.”. With all the institutional hindrances will Sanders just beat his head against a wall?

It all depends on the mass movement. Getting Sanders in the White House is but a first step. If you don't have to serve concentrated wealth, you can get political leverage out of every hindrance and increase your ability to bring systemic changes about.

That's what you see with Corporate Democrats. They can't really effectively resist Trump, because that would go against the interests of concentrated wealth (which Trump is serving extraordinarily well, of course, him being part of the establishment/swamp). You see just that happening with the Iran stuff. You get a lot of fake resistance, but only Sanders offers real resistance.

It is going to take decades to get on a less destructive path. First you need to deconcentrate concentrated wealth, and then there is a possibility for social and cultural change. A Sanders presidency is but a first step, and it will never be easy.

Tom_Mazanec · « **Reply #954 on:** January 09, 2020, 11:34:27 AM »

Quote

It is going to take decades to get on a less destructive path.

Do we have decades to avoid catastrophe?

Neven · « **Reply #955 on:** January 09, 2020, 01:23:26 PM »

Quote from: Tom_Mazanec on January 09, 2020, 11:34:27 AM

Quote
It is going to take decades to get on a less destructive path.
Do we have decades to avoid catastrophe?

We can't be sure, but we all need to do as much as we can, and for Americans that means getting Bernard Sanders into the White House (as a first step). There is no better alternative. There isn't any alternative. Any Blue will not do.

blumenkraft · « **Reply #956 on:** January 10, 2020, 08:09:34 PM »

Quote from: kassy on January 08, 2020, 09:02:41 PM

Clinton did some aweful stuff and the party lines were not drawn around that area because they were all fine with it.

No, i'm not making stuff up. Obviously i'm not aware of something you are, Kassy. What was it that Clinton cut social security wise?

blumenkraft · « **Reply #957 on:** January 10, 2020, 08:12:40 PM »

Amy Klobuchar Keeps Voting for Trump’s ‘Horrific’ Judges

Link >> https://www.thedailybeast.com/amy-klobuchar-keeps-voting-for-trumps-horrific-judges

sidd · « **Reply #958 on:** January 11, 2020, 09:18:27 PM »

Of some interest to this thread:

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1937.msg243958.html#msg243958

sidd

blumenkraft · « **Reply #959 on:** January 12, 2020, 07:48:17 AM »

Bloomberg says "if it's Donald Trump vs. Bernie, I would support Bernie"

Link >> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-bloomberg-interview-bloomberg-says-if-its-donald-trump-vs-bernie-i-would-support-bernie-2020-01-11/

blumenkraft · « **Reply #960 on:** January 12, 2020, 11:23:55 AM »

Quote

From Ipsos Poll yesterday;
Results show that Sen. Sanders
does a better job of drawing
independent supporters to his campaign.

2.5x more than Biden
3x more than Warren, Buttigieg and Bloomberg
4x more than Steyer
12x more than Klobuchar and Yang

Link >> https://mobile.twitter.com/danielvendamaki/status/1215807312973029376

blumenkraft · « **Reply #961 on:** January 12, 2020, 04:57:05 PM »

While Bernie Sanders has always stood up for African Americans, Joe Biden has repeatedly let us down

Link >> https://www.thestate.com/opinion/article239206718.html#storylink=cpy

Neven · « **Reply #962 on:** January 12, 2020, 05:26:52 PM »

blumenkraft · « **Reply #963 on:** January 12, 2020, 06:08:33 PM »

Turns out, Cornel West is also an amazing MC!

BERNIE SANDERS IN THE HOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE !!! \o/

sidd · « **Reply #964 on:** January 13, 2020, 09:02:16 AM »

Turner goes after African American support for Biden:

https://www.thestate.com/opinion/article239206718.html

sidd

blumenkraft · « **Reply #965 on:** January 13, 2020, 01:49:53 PM »

Yesterday, Biden campaign for the 3rd time insisted that Biden didn't support the Iraq War. Newly surfaced video shows Biden bragging about voting for the War & saying he didn't regret it, months AFTER the war was launched. Also criticizes antiwar Dems, praising Bush for leading US into the War

Link >> https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/enpcu0/yesterday_biden_campaign_for_the_3rd_time/

blumenkraft · « **Reply #966 on:** January 13, 2020, 01:51:46 PM »

When Bloomberg and Steyer spend millions on ads but end up splitting the moderate votes with Buttigieg, Klobuchar, and Biden while also proving the point that billionaires try to buy elections.

blumenkraft · « **Reply #967 on:** January 13, 2020, 07:23:14 PM »

Quote

Cory Booker Drops Out of Presidential Race

TerryM · « **Reply #968 on:** January 13, 2020, 11:07:52 PM »

^^

The apocalypse is already here; it's just not very evenly distributed.

That is one Hell of a signature line BK!!!

I'm in AWE!
Terry

blumenkraft · « **Reply #969 on:** January 13, 2020, 11:23:50 PM »

Thank's, Terry.

I modified the old cyberpunk quote by William Gibson were he said: "The future is already here; it's just not very evenly distributed".

TerryM · « **Reply #970 on:** January 13, 2020, 11:36:25 PM »

^^
When I steal it, You'll receive full credit.
Terry

blumenkraft · « **Reply #971 on:** January 13, 2020, 11:50:32 PM »

Feel free, Terry!

Ktb · « **Reply #972 on:** January 14, 2020, 01:06:58 AM »

Hopefully Sanders is able to capitalize on his recent polling surge in the upcoming debate.

Florifulgurator · « **Reply #973 on:** January 14, 2020, 03:41:11 AM »

Quote from: blumenkraft on January 12, 2020, 04:57:05 PM

While Bernie Sanders has always stood up for African Americans, Joe Biden has repeatedly let us down

Link >> https://www.thestate.com/opinion/article239206718.html#storylink=cpy

Poll: Biden leads handily in African American support
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/11/joe-biden-african-american-voters-poll-097524

blumenkraft · « **Reply #974 on:** January 14, 2020, 09:59:10 AM »

Elizabeth Warren lies about Bernie Sanders, claims he said: "A woman can't win in 2020."

Pre-crime Bernie in 1988:

"In my view, a woman could be elected president of the United States."

Link >> https://twitter.com/meaganmday/status/1216793548567113728

SteveMDFP · « **Reply #975 on:** January 14, 2020, 10:46:47 AM »

Quote from: blumenkraft on January 14, 2020, 09:59:10 AM

Elizabeth Warren lies about Bernie Sanders, claims he said: "A woman can't win in 2020."

Pre-crime Bernie in 1988:

"In my view, a woman could be elected president of the United States."

Link >> https://twitter.com/meaganmday/status/1216793548567113728

Warren lied? What we have is divergent descriptions of a private meeting between Sanders and Warren in December 2018. What's publicly known is covered in this article:

Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren in private 2018 meeting that a woman can't win, sources say
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-meeting/index.html

It seems clear that both candidates recognize that a female or minority candidate has a steeper hill to climb than a white male. It seems likely that this topic came up in that private meeting, in which they agreed not to attack each other in the campaign.

Maybe at one point in that private meeting Bernie misspoke. Maybe Warren misunderstood his words. We can't know, nobody who wasn't in the meeting can know.

To proclaim that one or the other is lying about the conversation isn't supported here. The accusation of a lie is itself a lie. Providing just a twitter link to a fragment of information about a controversy is poor form in a discussion forum.

blumenkraft · « **Reply #976 on:** January 14, 2020, 11:06:17 AM »

Quote from: SteveMDFP on January 14, 2020, 10:46:47 AM

Warren lied? What we have is divergent descriptions of a private meeting between Sanders and Warren in December 2018. What's publicly known is covered in this article:

What we know is that two sources, who don't want to go on record (!!), report from a meeting they never attended (!!).

And on the other side, we have a man who is saying "Woman can be president" for decades. Publicly!! On fucking camera!!

What is there to question? This bothsideism is hard to stand in general for me, Steve, but in this particular case, it's extraordinary.

SteveMDFP · « **Reply #977 on:** January 14, 2020, 11:15:09 AM »

Quote from: blumenkraft on January 14, 2020, 11:06:17 AM

Quote from: SteveMDFP on January 14, 2020, 10:46:47 AM
Warren lied? What we have is divergent descriptions of a private meeting between Sanders and Warren in December 2018. What's publicly known is covered in this article:

What we know is that two sources, who don't want to go on record (!!), report from a meeting they never attended (!!).

And on the other side, we have a man who is saying "Woman can be president" for decades. Publicly!! On fucking camera!!

What is there to question? This bothsideism is hard to stand in general for me, Steve, but in this particular case, it's extraordinary.

It's not bothsideism to point out what is not known, what we can't know. I'd agree that sources from Warren's team blabbing to the press about a private meeting is bad behavior. I think having the press blow this up in headlines is the actual problem.

I do think it's naive to presume that what *any* politician says in front of a microphone matches his/her private thoughts exactly. Citing public statements to conclude what was said in a private conversation is not supportable.

We don't know what was said in that private meeting. We don't know that one or the other misspoke or was misunderstood. It's a tempest in a teapot to proclaim that diverging descriptions represent slander by either party.

blumenkraft · « **Reply #978 on:** January 14, 2020, 11:23:31 AM »

Quote

We don't know what was said in that private meeting

Well, Steve, i know i have a brain so why shouldn't i use it?

blumenkraft · « **Reply #979 on:** January 14, 2020, 12:28:11 PM »

CNN’s Sanders Hit Piece Is a Journalistic Outrage

Link >> https://www.truthdig.com/articles/cnns-sanders-hit-piece-is-a-journalistic-outrage/

(which is BTW the top post on r/politics ATM)

PS:

CNN’s Sanders Hit Piece Doesn’t Pass the Smell Test

Link >> https://fair.org/home/cnns-sanders-hit-piece-doesnt-pass-the-smell-test/

blumenkraft · « **Reply #980 on:** January 14, 2020, 03:31:35 PM »

Oligarchy in panic mode

Quote

The elite of the United States has lost control of the political process in the pre-election campaign

Link >> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Ftp%2Ffeatures%2FOligarchie-im-Panikmodus-4636162.html

blumenkraft · « **Reply #981 on:** January 14, 2020, 08:02:20 PM »

Steve, here is one more thought about this whole Warren thing.

There are two possibilities. It's either Warren is lying about what Bernie was saying in that private meeting or not, right?

So, if she is lying, she is a liar. But if she is not lying, that makes her a snitch...

She comes out badly after all, no matter what.

Just the same with the making a DNA test faux-pas. Why was she even giving Trump this triumph? She should have never done this from a political standpoint.

And then her M4A plan that involved 3 iterations (as in 'let's fight 3 fights instead of 1, what could possibly go wrong?').

Even if one thinks she was an honest actor, how can all these political fails be overlooked? She can't be trusted, no matter from what angle you are looking at her.

Neven · « **Reply #982 on:** January 14, 2020, 08:53:56 PM »

Not looking good...

Ktb · « **Reply #983 on:** January 15, 2020, 11:44:12 AM »

Debate winners: Bernie, Steyer.

Debate Meh: Biden, Klobuchar, Pete.

Debate losers: the moderators. What the fuck was that? Warren didn't look very good for her refusal to dismiss the bullshit claim about Bernie and sexism.

20 days until Iowa. Feel the Bern.

blumenkraft · « **Reply #984 on:** January 15, 2020, 12:38:53 PM »

CNN Completely Botched The Democratic Presidential Debate

Quote

Who will stand up for the “insurance town” in the 2020 election? Why should the government do things? Will Bernie Sanders bankrupt America? Who onstage will let Iran have a nuclear weapon ― you know, just because?

If these sound like terrible questions to you, you’re right. They were awful. And they were the focus of CNN’s tedious, interminable, frivolous debate on Tuesday night ― a fiasco of irrelevance held three weeks before the Iowa caucuses.

Again and again, CNN anchors substituted centrist talking points for questions

Yep, accurate!

Link >> https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cnn-botched-democratic-debate_n_5e1e981bc5b63211760b0fad

Tom_Mazanec · « **Reply #985 on:** January 15, 2020, 12:39:51 PM »

I probably won’t know the winner until Feb 11 when I get back.
I have an around the clock itinerary.

blumenkraft · « **Reply #986 on:** January 15, 2020, 01:00:18 PM »

Good, Tom. Don't even touch the internet.

This way you can avoid questions like "Senator Sanders, your plan to slaughter babies and puppies costs $400 trillion but a recent poll shows that 147% of Americans think that you are Satan. Why do you want to give the terrorists nuclear weapons?" and many more.

Have a nice trip!

sidd · « **Reply #987 on:** January 15, 2020, 09:10:07 PM »

NYT interview with Sanders:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/13/opinion/bernie-sanders-nytimes-interview.html

sidd

sidd · « **Reply #988 on:** January 16, 2020, 08:33:19 AM »

Warren is toast: when you lose michael moore ...

Briefly:

Trump is loving it. Warren threw a bomb and might have thrown the nomination to the superdelegates. Moore is heartbroken.

Listen to the whole thing: downfall of elizabeth warren

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rumble-with-michael-moore/id1490354763

sidd

Neven · « **Reply #989 on:** January 17, 2020, 04:24:50 PM »

Kulinksi, always worth listening to, implies that Warren cut a deal with Biden and is therefore stabbing Sanders in the back:

I'm done with Warren. She was never as good as she could be, but this is downright disappointing.

Florifulgurator · « **Reply #990 on:** January 18, 2020, 04:17:15 AM »

2016 deja vu all over again? The Dem circular firing squad gearing up, cheered by progressive wannabe punditry...

Neven · « **Reply #991 on:** January 18, 2020, 11:26:32 PM »

Quote from: Florifulgurator on January 18, 2020, 04:17:15 AM

2016 deja vu all over again? The Dem circular firing squad gearing up, cheered by progressive wannabe punditry...

So, you're okay with people from the Warren campaign (and Warren obviously giving the green light) spreading a rumour via the media that Sanders is a sexist, just before the last primary debate? Because that's how all this started, remember?
I don't know if 'circular firing squad' is the right term for that. 'Death squad' seems more appropriate.

Listen to that Michael Moore podcast sidd posted earlier.

Florifulgurator · « **Reply #992 on:** January 19, 2020, 02:07:49 AM »

I haven't looked in detail because it's just too stupid to waste time on that. I haven't seen Warren accuse Sanders himself being sexist. I bet he had just told her the very obvious: In general Americans are sexist. Just look at the females on Fox News... Sure, Hillary got 3 million votes more - but imagine how much more she would have got as a male. And Warren is exactly the type of intelligent, educated and dedicated woman the hillbillies hate. No Fox News Barbie doll, not a stupid Sarah Palin, but coastal "elite" she is. Luckily not lesbo...

In that scene after the debate when Warren refused the handshake with Sanders, I found his body language condescending... so perhaps he actually is a tad sexist somewhere deep below the surface? (Pale white with black body hair)

I recommend you revisit Michael Moore in Trumpland. He gives the full picture of American sexism.

(P.S.: Perhaps not the full picture. In my field studies in Arizona 1992 I met all kinds of lads and gals, incl. the only black female law student at Arizona State. Did you know that even a U.S. Marine with a big combat knife can be scared by an unshaven woman? )

Neven · « **Reply #993 on:** January 19, 2020, 11:41:21 AM »

Quote from: Florifulgurator on January 19, 2020, 02:07:49 AM

I haven't looked in detail

Well, look into it before spouting that knee-jerk 'circular firing squad' nonsense! Listen to that Michael Moore podcast. Who started this, how and why?

blumenkraft · « **Reply #994 on:** January 19, 2020, 03:08:52 PM »

Why Joe Biden Would LOSE To Donald Trump

Florifulgurator · « **Reply #995 on:** January 19, 2020, 04:28:43 PM »

Quote from: Neven on January 19, 2020, 11:41:21 AM

Who started this, how and why?

Looks like CNN started it. The circular firing squad punditry (even Cenk Uygur) then happily (and/or stupidly) misinterpreted it as an accusation of sexism toward Bernie. And there you go again. If I wanted to be paranoid: It's an old Republican trick to avoid any debate of substance. Most Americans, left and right, can only think with their belly.

blumenkraft · « **Reply #996 on:** January 19, 2020, 04:36:10 PM »

Well, Martin, no!

It was Warren staffers that started it and it was Warren who put gas on the fire by not setting the facts straight.

And now she is burned. Badly!

And you see me giggle over all this.

blumenkraft · « **Reply #997 on:** January 19, 2020, 04:42:44 PM »

And now Biden is walking around and telling people the videos of him where he bragged about wanting to cut social security are 'doctored'. This is like a Trump level kind of lie. And the public has noticed. Expect his numbers to drop even more.

And there goes all of the wannabe electability. I love it!

Neven · « **Reply #998 on:** January 19, 2020, 04:50:25 PM »

Quote from: Florifulgurator on January 19, 2020, 04:28:43 PM

Looks like CNN started it. The circular firing squad punditry (even Cenk Uygur) then happily (and/or stupidly) misinterpreted it as an accusation of sexism toward Bernie. And there you go again. If I wanted to be paranoid: It's an old Republican trick to avoid any debate of substance.

You still haven't looked into it! But you're still talking!

oren · « **Reply #999 on:** January 19, 2020, 04:56:28 PM »

Blumenkraft, I realize you are a stout Bernie supporter (I am too I guess), but looking at the chart in https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html shows Bernie edging very slightly up, while Biden seems quite stable in his lead. Do you seriously expect Bernie to somehow win the nomination, even before considering the nasty bias of the party itself/DNC against him? I am asking not to piss anyone off, but because I care about the result.

News:

Author Topic: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020? (Read 182121 times)

Tom_Mazanec

Tom_Mazanec

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

Tom_Mazanec

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft

blumenkraft