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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #550 on: September 25, 2019, 09:28:01 AM »
Yes, the most idiotic MAGA hat people will do that. Why you are doing it too is beyond me. Bought a MAGA hat, Terry?

Terry doesn't say he agrees with calling her that, he's just talking about strategy. It's not hard to predict that Trump would probably very successfully make use of it. If it were the only thing, Warren might have a chance. But the overall problem is the justified perception that Warren will represent the donors more than the American people in general, once in office:
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #551 on: September 26, 2019, 08:51:05 AM »
Quote
I may have no politics to offer but i can dance in a weird way!

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Klondike Kat

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #552 on: September 26, 2019, 03:47:12 PM »
Soooo, if we thought that Booker or Harris were likely to be the nominees, should we start constantly repeating the 'n' word here, because, hey, everybody should have to get used to it, since that's what at least some of Trump's followers will be using?

I still thing Bernie is more likely to win, so should I constantly refer to him as Bernie the Crazy Kike, so that we can all get inured to the slurs??
Bernie the Kike and Harris the nword won't be spoken out loud (by many), but Pocahontas will be blaring from every speaker for months. If Warren were of Native American heritage Pocahontas would equate to the nword, or kike, but she isn't, so it doesn't.
Campaigning against its use will further alienate Native Americans, their supporters, and every member of a visible minority will be pissed that a gringo first used minority identification to scam the system & now claims minority inclusion to fight her political battles. Not a good stance to take when the manure strikes the air handler.


It's not something she was born with, it was her own doing & she was foolish enough to bring it front and center through her very public bet with Trump. I think it cost her whatever chance she may have had to become the next president.


Bernie and Tulsi is my favorite ticket in part because I think they may have a chance against Trump. Anyone else has too many negatives.


Trump is going to be hard to beat with this impeachment show in the offing. I can't imagine why Pelosi changed her mind.
Terry

That is just part of her bigger image as being part of the elite, when it comes to government programs.  Her college tuition and debt proposals are viewed as another handout to the wealthy elitists. 

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #553 on: September 26, 2019, 05:20:47 PM »
How is educating people handouts to the wealthy elitists? Last time i checked a free college is proportionally worth more for a poor person, ergo you take a tiny package from the rich, but a huge one from the poor.

Also, who says you can't tax the wealthy more to get that money back?
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GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #554 on: September 26, 2019, 07:22:23 PM »
Also, who says you can't tax the wealthy more to get that money back?

History (and logic). Rich people and their wealth are highly mobile. If the rules change to significantly reduce wealth of some sort, people move their wealth to a different form or different jurisdiction. It is pretty much impossible to stop this.
big time oops

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #555 on: September 26, 2019, 07:35:16 PM »
Care to back up that bullshit with a source GSY?
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wili

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #556 on: September 26, 2019, 09:32:49 PM »
Terry wrote: "Bernie the Kike and Harris the nword won't be spoken out loud (by many)..."

The more we coarsen the dialogue, the more likely it is that they will be.

If you want to be part of moving the discourse in that direction, I guess there's nothing I can do to stop you...it just doesn't strike me as a good, or particularly moral, idea.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

philopek

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #557 on: September 26, 2019, 11:43:08 PM »
Care to back up that bullshit with a source GSY?

Google is your friend.

Those who impertinently ask for sources for the obvious facts of life declare defeat without
being aware.

Of course it's legit to ask for sources of Theories or non-common knowledge but what GSY
stated is quite obvious to anyone not dreaming idealistic dreams.

In combination with attacking aggressive rude language the question for source has to be seen
as what i call "offending question" usually a typical but not exclusively female behavior ;)

In short, no sources needed to back what we can observe on a daily basis on almost every tv channel or tax-related media event as well as parliament's and other political discussions.

May i remind you for example that a German who has his domicile in i.e. Switzerland or even better, Monaco, pays about 4 times less taxes and that legally.

How do you suggest to get their money back into the German (example) treasory if there is no legal handle?

To tax the remaining higher, very naive because then the threshold to leave for even more
wealthy would be reached etc., kind of positive feedback.

However all this is in detail, without the BS word i had never replied because it's in vain.
Interesting to see how often those who claim to be "Gutmenschen" loose their "Kinderstube"
once their identifying illusions are endangered to be rendered  or proven obsolete and not for the first time.

As I know very well and can see proven here and elsewhere each day several times, the close a statement gets to the truth in a manner that one has to re-consider his comfort zone setup, the harsher and more "bombastic" the subconscious mind of many starts to fight the battle for survival (of the illusions)

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #558 on: September 27, 2019, 08:45:37 AM »
Wow, so much text, there must be an argument in there, right? NOPE! Only anecdotal evidence...

OK, Philopek. You couldn't find a source as it seems. That's ok, we are all lazy from time to time.

Answer me this question though: Why are not all wealthy people in some country with lower taxes, say Anguilla, where the tax rate is 0%?
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sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #559 on: September 27, 2019, 09:53:28 AM »

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #560 on: September 27, 2019, 10:17:19 AM »
Yes, tax evasion is happening because the ruling class does the laws and the tax evasion. It's a political problem.

The question is though, would the wealthy class leave the country once you have strict tax evasion laws and high taxes?

Would Jeff Bezos leave the country if he had to pay taxes? Would he take his business to say,  Anguilla?

Or is this rather a stupid thought because you also need the infrastructure, resources, workforce, and networks available in the US to do such a business?
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #561 on: September 27, 2019, 09:37:46 PM »
Zucman, Piketty et al. have some ideas to address tax evasion. They point out that change can come quicker than we think, as in the change to swiss banking law. They point out that there are very few major players and if the OECD and China pass legislation the offshore havens will capitulate.

We shall see.

sidd

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #562 on: September 28, 2019, 02:27:51 AM »
Terry wrote: "Bernie the Kike and Harris the nword won't be spoken out loud (by many)..."

The more we coarsen the dialogue, the more likely it is that they will be.

If you want to be part of moving the discourse in that direction, I guess there's nothing I can do to stop you...it just doesn't strike me as a good, or particularly moral, idea.
Wili
Just a gentle reminder that it was not I who brought the "nword" or "kike" into the discussion.


"Pocahontas" is the moniker that Warren will wear for the rest of her public life.


To win the Presidency as a Democrat she'll need to totally re-brand herself. No minority will knowingly vote for a white that scammed the system and was rewarded with a position intended for a minority applicant. The Republicans under Trump aren't likely to let them forget.
Terry

SteveMDFP

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #563 on: September 28, 2019, 02:59:28 AM »
To win the Presidency as a Democrat she'll need to totally re-brand herself. No minority will knowingly vote for a white that scammed the system and was rewarded with a position intended for a minority applicant. The Republicans under Trump aren't likely to let them forget.
Terry

Warren was never rewarded for identifying with her Native American ancestors:

Ethnicity not a factor in Elizabeth Warren’s rise in law
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/09/01/did-claiming-native-american-heritage-actually-help-elizabeth-warren-get-ahead-but-complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html

Nor was it a lie.  She has Native American ancestry.  She shouldn't have declared herself a member of a tribe, because she wasn't raised in that culture.  But having only fractional ancestry isn't the problem.  As I recall, a recent President of the Navajo Nation was only 1l64th by blood.

America has elected a President who boasted of grabbing women's genitals.  To consider a candidate's over-identification with a minority group to be disqualifying is bizarre.

wili

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #564 on: September 28, 2019, 03:52:55 AM »
Good point, Steve. Terry, generally quite astute about many things, just seems to be oddly off and oddly obsessed about this one.

Some men do seem to be quite put off kilter by strong, smart women, I guess...
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

GoSouthYoungins

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #565 on: September 28, 2019, 05:01:15 AM »
Who should be?

Gabbard.


Who will be?

You think I'm just an ignorant savage
And you've been so many places; I guess it must be so
But still I cannot see, if the savage one is me
How can there be so much that you don't know?
You don't know...

You think you own whatever land you land on
The earth is just a dead thing you can claim
But I know every rock and tree and creature
Has a life, has a spirit, has a name.

You think the only people who are people
Are the people who look and think like you
But if you walk the footsteps of a stranger
You'll learn things you never knew you never knew

Have you ever heard the wolf cry to the blue corn moon
Or asked the grinning bobcat why he grinned
Can you sing with all the voices of the mountain
Can you paint with all the colors of the wind?
Can you paint with all the colors of the wind?

Come run the hidden pine trails of the forest
Come taste the sun-sweet berries of the earth
Come roll in all the riches all around you
And for once never wonder what they're worth

The rainstorm and the river are my brothers
The heron and the otter are my friends
And we are all connected to each other
In a circle in a hoop that never ends

How high will a sycamore grow?
If you cut it down then you'll never know
And you'll never hear the wolf cry to the blue corn moon
For whether we are white or copper skinned
We need to sing with all the voices of the mountain
We need to paint with all the colors of the wind

You can own the earth and still
All you'll own is earth until
You can paint with all the colors of the wind
big time oops

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #566 on: September 28, 2019, 07:30:11 AM »
Good point, Steve. Terry, generally quite astute about many things, just seems to be oddly off and oddly obsessed about this one.

Some men do seem to be quite put off kilter by strong, smart women, I guess...
You've never met the Mrs. obviously. :)
Terry

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #567 on: September 28, 2019, 08:45:57 AM »
Why Warren's technocratic approach will fail

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TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #568 on: September 28, 2019, 08:43:28 PM »
wili
I've no opinion on whether Warren would make a good president or not.
I simply believe that others in the race have a much better chance of unseating Trump, and I've explained my reasoning.
Terry


blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #569 on: September 28, 2019, 08:57:32 PM »
What If Bernie Sanders had an Anime Opening

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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #570 on: October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM »
(CNN)

Quote
Sen. Bernie Sanders raised more than $25 million over the past three months, his campaign said Tuesday morning.

The haul -- up more than $7 million from his second quarter total -- underscored Sanders' continued strength with small dollar donors. The campaign announced last week that it had received contributions from more than a million people.

"Bernie is proud to be the only candidate running to defeat Donald Trump who is 100 percent funded by grassroots donations -- both in the primary and in the general," Sanders campaign manager Faiz Shakir said in a statement celebrating the new figures.

Link >> https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/01/politics/bernie-sanders-25-million-fundraising-third-quarter-2019/index.html

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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #571 on: October 01, 2019, 07:53:15 PM »
At some point, Sanders is going to have to become more combative and direct.

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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #572 on: October 01, 2019, 08:12:32 PM »
100%!
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #573 on: October 02, 2019, 10:57:06 AM »
Bernie Sanders raises more money than any 2020 candidate so far

Quote
"Media elites and professional pundits have tried repeatedly to dismiss this campaign, and yet working-class Americans keep saying loudly and clearly that they want a political revolution," Shakir said.

Link >> https://www.salon.com/2019/10/01/bernie-sanders-has-raised-more-money-than-any-2020-candidate-so-far/
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wili

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #574 on: October 02, 2019, 03:55:02 PM »
Yup, he raised $25 m in the last quarter, and none from Wall Street.

But the headline is technically wrong, since Trump is also a candidate, and he raised $125 m in the last quarter.

People on both sides want to buy this office, but Trump is the one with the most backers who have the deepest pockets.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-rnc-fundraising-third-quarter-2019_n_5d94452fe4b0ac3cddb0c8ff
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #575 on: October 02, 2019, 04:13:31 PM »
Logically, is the president a candidate in the first place?  :P

Is that 125m figure real? Saw it on Breitbart and thought it's fake news.
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #576 on: October 02, 2019, 05:47:40 PM »
and then there were two ...

Bernie Sanders Hospitalized for Heart Procedure, Cancels Campaign Events
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-health.html

Sanders has Heart Stent Surgery after Chest Discomfort
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/02/sanders-has-heart-stent-surgery-after-chest-discomfort-000164
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #577 on: October 02, 2019, 06:34:16 PM »
Get well Bernie! <3
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oren

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #578 on: October 02, 2019, 09:57:30 PM »
I hope he recovers soon and continues campaigning.

bbr2314

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #579 on: October 03, 2019, 09:52:11 PM »
Pocahontas is the worst. I would vote for Trump if the Democrats pick Pocahontas. I would not vote in the election otherwise, but if they nominate her, I will be a likely Trump voter -- and I can imagine many more independents also shifting to Trump if the D candidate is a lying socialist thief.

sedziobs

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #580 on: October 03, 2019, 11:32:43 PM »
All 12 candidates will be on the same stage in a single October debate (which Bernie expects to participate in). I was hoping for a 6/6 split. 12 (or even 10) at once makes for a chaotic scene.

Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #581 on: October 04, 2019, 12:01:27 PM »
I wish it weren't so, but Sanders really is America's best hope for positive change. If he isn't elected president, the country will go nowhere (except probably further downhill).
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #582 on: October 04, 2019, 03:46:31 PM »
I wish it weren't so, but Sanders really is America's best hope for positive change. If he isn't elected president, the country will go nowhere (except probably further downhill).
If he doesn’t get the nomination do you think he could run as an Independent?
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #583 on: October 05, 2019, 08:20:57 AM »
Jamie Peck on Sanders vs. Warren:

Quote
Think about their ability to deal with these constraints. They are not the same. They don't have the same strategy, they don't have the same approach.

Warren's approach is one of technocracy.

Bernie's approach is to build a movement that lasts past the elections which is something he understands better than everyone else running by far. Even Obama didn't understand that.

Read Meagan Day[1] - on the kind of labor movement and the kind of grassroots power that would be necessary for Bernie to pass anything he is trying to do just doesn't exist with anyone else.

[1] Meagan Day at Jacobin >> https://www.jacobinmag.com/author/meagan-day


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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #584 on: October 05, 2019, 08:31:12 AM »
... from this video btw. Well worth a watch/listen.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #585 on: October 05, 2019, 09:04:42 AM »
To put a slightly different angle on Jamie's argument here:

In the same way the far-right feels entitled to be openly racist under agent orange, with Sanders as president majorities, the workers, the poor would feel entitled to openly question the system and demand change, put pressure on house and senate. He has already proven to be able to change the Overton window in such a way in this presidential race.

Sounds scary only to non-democrats.
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gandul

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #586 on: October 05, 2019, 03:09:19 PM »
Pocahontas is the worst. I would vote for Trump if the Democrats pick Pocahontas. I would not vote in the election otherwise, but if they nominate her, I will be a likely Trump voter -- and I can imagine many more independents also shifting to Trump if the D candidate is a lying socialist thief.
Ugly but it’s true. So many Americans willing to vote a proven “liar billionaire thief” (well the billionaire not entirely proven) before an, allegedly, “liar socialist thief”.

Neven, I don’t think even Sanders could cure the US. It seems pretty much dead and we just have to watch the corpse to slowly rot.
No me lo trago

blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #587 on: October 05, 2019, 03:17:48 PM »
No, only the American people can 'cure' America.

With a large grassroots movement and the right leader, there is a chance. The door is wide open. Go fucking through it.
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gandul

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #588 on: October 05, 2019, 03:29:56 PM »
No, only the American people can 'cure' America.

With a large grassroots movement and the right leader, there is a chance. The door is wide open. Go fucking through it.

Yes. I hope so, but the US needs to go away from their centenary beliefs, so convenient for the political and economical elites. From their stupid guns, their stupid “not with my money”, etc, etc. etc. And you see comments above that, they elect a ridiculous clown as president, and they would do it again if he appeals at their idiotic centenary values.

And with the sinking of America, we may all feel some pain, but perhaps it’s the necessary crisis,
No me lo trago

sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #589 on: October 06, 2019, 12:08:58 AM »
Bernie ad highlighting the enduring opposition from the Democratic establishment to his candidacy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=3ZhkKATtqtU

sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #590 on: October 06, 2019, 02:42:10 AM »
Pocahontas is the worst. I would vote for Trump if the Democrats pick Pocahontas. I would not vote in the election otherwise, but if they nominate her, I will be a likely Trump voter -- and I can imagine many more independents also shifting to Trump if the D candidate is a lying socialist thief.
Ugly but it’s true. So many Americans willing to vote a proven “liar billionaire thief” (well the billionaire not entirely proven) before an, allegedly, “liar socialist thief”.

Yes, just look back to the 2016 election.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #591 on: October 06, 2019, 06:34:58 PM »
The Movement Bernie Started Is Bigger Than Any One Person. Have Faith in That Movement, Not Just the Man
The reason people support Bernie Sanders is not because of the man; it is because of the ideals that he represents


Link >> https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/10/06/movement-bernie-started-bigger-any-one-person-have-faith-movement-not-just-man
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #592 on: October 08, 2019, 09:17:31 PM »
That one must hurt KK.  ;D
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #593 on: October 08, 2019, 09:21:27 PM »
Young folks favor Bernie, the old farts who did it wrong all their lives favor Warren.

Time to listen to the generation who has to deal with your shit boomers!
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #594 on: October 08, 2019, 11:44:55 PM »
That's quite a difference from the Fox News Wisconsin poll released this weekend, which had Biden 28, Warren 22, Sanders 17. The Change Research poll is done with targeted online ads. Curiously it has disappeared from their website as of now.

In South Carolina, Fox News has Biden 41, Warren 12, Sanders 10. A Change Research poll from August revealed it's the very large contingent of black voters that give Biden such a big lead with a 45-15 advantage over Sanders. I may be tone deaf, but I can recognize that Sanders' demographic appeal is limited at this point. Age 65+, college educated, and blacks are a huge part of the Democratic electorate. Sanders won't win without them.

Eight candidates have already qualified for the November debate, with Booker, Steyer, and Yang all getting their fourth poll in the last few days.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #595 on: October 09, 2019, 12:13:16 AM »
Day at Jacobin on Sanders call for end to corporate funding of DNC:

 “As the Democratic nominee, Bernie will ban corporate contributions to the Democratic Party Convention and all related committees.”

"The DNC, for its part, is adamant that it will not return the money it has raised from lobbyists and corporate PACs, nor break its promises of exclusive access and credentials in exchange for cash."

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/10/bernie-sanders-democratic-national-committee-corporate-donors

This will set the cat among the pigeons. He's threatening to cut off DNC oxygen. Wouldnt surprise me if DNC rams thru Biden with the superdelegates in the second round after first round between Sanders, Warren and Biden is inconclusive.

And then DNC will lose again with Biden.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #597 on: October 09, 2019, 03:57:06 PM »
That's quite a difference from the Fox News Wisconsin poll released this weekend, which had Biden 28, Warren 22, Sanders 17. The Change Research poll is done with targeted online ads. Curiously it has disappeared from their website as of now.

In South Carolina, Fox News has Biden 41, Warren 12, Sanders 10. A Change Research poll from August revealed it's the very large contingent of black voters that give Biden such a big lead with a 45-15 advantage over Sanders. I may be tone deaf, but I can recognize that Sanders' demographic appeal is limited at this point. Age 65+, college educated, and blacks are a huge part of the Democratic electorate. Sanders won't win without them.

Eight candidates have already qualified for the November debate, with Booker, Steyer, and Yang all getting their fourth poll in the last few days.

According to 538, that last two quality polls in Wisconsin had Biden had 28%, with Warren at 17 and 22% and Sanders at 17 and 20%.  Both those polls have a much higher rating on 538 than change research polls.


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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #598 on: October 09, 2019, 04:55:04 PM »
That's quite a difference from the Fox News Wisconsin poll released this weekend,

Yes, this one is an outlier indeed. But it is also a glimpse into the future. ;)
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #599 on: October 09, 2019, 07:41:03 PM »
I wonder if "quality polls" will become less relevant. Monmouth polls (which 538 rates A+) are done exclusively by phone, with the majority being landline. That will obviously under-represent younger demographics, who generally do not answer unknown callers on their cellphones. I don't know anyone under 40 with a landline.

In Monmouth's most recent New Hampshire poll, only 29% of respondents were under 50, and only 12% were under 35. Those percentages may have roughly correlated with actual voter turnout in past elections, but the under 50 vote was the majority in the 2018 midterms. The truth is probably somewhere between the "quality" approved DNC list and online polling like Change Research. If so, it's a shame that the DNC process is discounting younger generations in its rather un-democratic selection process.