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Author Topic: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?  (Read 75903 times)

Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1000 on: January 19, 2020, 05:02:36 PM »
Looks like CNN started it. The circular firing squad punditry (even Cenk Uygur) then happily (and/or stupidly) misinterpreted it as an accusation of sexism toward Bernie. And there you go again. If I wanted to be paranoid: It's an old Republican trick to avoid any debate of substance.

You still haven't looked into it! But you're still talking!

The podcast is 1 hour too long for my time and taste. Perhaps you can point at the time where I should listen in? Here is from the accompanying text:
[quote
Bernie in 1988: “In my view a woman could be elected president of the United States”
/quote]
That was at the humble beginnings of a decades long sexist smear campaign against Hillary. Not relevant.


P.S.: That Bernie even had to say that corroborates my point. Nothing has changed since.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 05:13:24 PM by Florifulgurator »
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1001 on: January 19, 2020, 05:26:01 PM »
That Bernie even had to say that corroborates my point. Nothing has changed since.

What's your point? That Sanders is a misogynist and sexist? That's a pretty dumb point to make.

You were right about one thing though: "If I wanted to be paranoid: It's an old Republican trick to avoid any debate of substance." It's a trick indeed by the Warren campaign team, who know they can't fight Sanders on the substance, and so they resort to dirty identity politics. It's a pity Warren would let it come that far, and that is what Moore is lamenting (as well as all those other times that he brushed her lies aside).

She can redeem herself by dropping out and endorsing Sanders, the only leftist left in the race, but somehow I doubt she will. She might be crucial in giving the DNC another opportunity to cheat Sanders and have the neoliberal party apparatchiks - aka superdelegates - pick Biden.

And then it's game over.
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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1002 on: January 19, 2020, 05:40:33 PM »
That Bernie even had to say that corroborates my point. Nothing has changed since.

What's your point? That Sanders is a misogynist and sexist?
Heck, f-ing not. (The point (nobody gets).)

So I listend to the Michael Moore podcast (Rumble Ep. 19) for 18 minutes. That suffices. He also fell for the trick. Excellent analysis and logic in the back chamber of his brain, but his talking consciousness couldn't consistently follow himself. (Yes, the brain is not a monolith.)

Europeans and U.S. coastal intellectuals just can't grasp how racism and sexism and stupidity had been cemented in flyover America. That can be broken, but it also could easily be exploited by Republican strategy.

----------------------
Anyhow, ever since the Pocahontas thing it is clear that Elisabeth is bad in the mud slinging department of politics. Just like Hillary. They are just too rational and policy based.  I won't risk to nominate her against Trump. Warren for Vice President!


P.S.: Enough of the flying monkeys. I won't join their squad (amplifying the distraction) by discussing this sh# any longer.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 06:00:05 PM by Florifulgurator »
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1003 on: January 19, 2020, 05:52:07 PM »
Do you seriously expect Bernie to somehow win the nomination?

Hell yeah! :D
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1004 on: January 19, 2020, 07:18:56 PM »
Quote
Quote
What's your point? That Sanders is a misogynist and sexist?
Heck, f-ing not. (The point (nobody gets).)

But that's the point that Warren and her campaign people are making, because they can't get Sanders on the policy substance. Like you say, a Republican trick. They are making the point. They created it with the help of CNN, not the progressives that you love shitting on so much.

It's great that you have another cryptic point entirely, that you cannot or do not want to share with us. But the point is that Warren and her campaign staff have put this manipulative crap out there deliberately, just before the last primary debate, to try and save the sinking ship. Instead of attacking that fucking corrupt sociopath Biden, they attacked Sanders!

But here you are, trying to make some point which probably reflects the Bush-era thinking you can't seem to move beyond (Republicans=bad Democrats=good). "Any Blue will do, people, so don't be stupid and stop attacking Corporate Democrats".

Quote
Anyhow, ever since the Pocahontas thing it is clear that Elisabeth is bad in the mud slinging department of politics.

Especially if she starts the mud slinging and then tries to trap Sanders post-debate when the microphones are still on. Moore called his podcast "The Sad Downfall of Elizabeth Warren" for a reason. She has fallen down hard.

It's just so ironic that you complain about sexism, but then are okay with someone deviously exploiting the pushback against sexism for political gain. Indeed, just like sociopath Hillary did. And for what? To keep the neoliberal gravy train running and further concentrate wealth. If at least it was to do something for the American people at large...
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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1005 on: January 19, 2020, 10:55:51 PM »
Here is what was said, and I insist taking it literally. It's as f-ing simple as that. Liz has not accused Bernie of sexism.  That is a stupid misinterpretation or exaggeration - independent of who said it. It is as simple as that, and it should be easy to grasp.

https://theintercept.com/2020/01/17/sanders-warren-vice-president-treasury-secretary/
[quote---------------------------------
[...]
NOT LONG AFTER meeting with Sanders at the end of 2018 to discuss her impending presidential run, Warren hosted an off-the-record dinner with a number of journalists, according to sources with knowledge of it. At the dinner, Warren was asked about her meeting with Sanders, and in the course of the discussion, she relayed that Sanders had warned that he didn’t believe a woman could beat Trump in 2020. Different reporters recalled the comments differently, a mirror image of the dispute between Warren and Sanders over exactly what Sanders said — with Warren saying that Sanders argued a woman couldn’t beat Trump, while Sanders said that he only said Trump would weaponize misogyny against a woman, not that it would work. (The Intercept was not at the dinner. Most politicians hold informal, off-record dinners or meetings with journalists, though it’s not something Sanders is known to do. Occasionally details from those meetings leak, but it’s rare.)

From there, the piece of news entered the journalistic bloodstream, circulating among reporters as gossip but not finding its way into print. On Monday, it finally did, with CNN’s M.J. Lee reporting that according to four sources — described as “two people Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting” — Sanders had told Warren, according to CNN’s paraphrasing, that “he did not believe a woman could win.”

It was widely assumed in the immediate aftermath of the story that Warren’s campaign had planted the story. Indeed, CNN anchor Erin Burnett said as much on air. But Burnett was merely making an assumption, and had no inside knowledge of the sources, two CNN sources told The Intercept.

On Monday, Warren told The Intercept that her campaign did not intentionally plant the CNN story. That Warren told a number of journalists about the meeting a year ago adds context to that statement. If Warren had only told her closest advisers about the meeting, then it would be logical to assume that her campaign dictated the timing of the story, dropping it just ahead of a debate, and just weeks before the primary, to undercut Sanders. But since Warren told the story more broadly to a group of journalists, CNN’s sources could have come from outside the campaign. The revelation does not rule out the possibility that someone in her campaign was a source, but it opens up other possibilities, as well.
[...]
---------------------------------/quote]

My emphasis for your convenience, and to increase chances you get it. I hope you can at least read, since you seem to only listen to talking heads you like and take everything they say as gospel.

BTW I still love Michael Moore. Even he can get things wrong at times. No problem for me. Cenk Uygur I can also take seriously, execpt when he errs.

The whole incident corroborates my understanding of American sexism and neuroticism. That's why my BS detector immediately raised a red flag.

[Edit finished. Off into the forest and then Facebook. Enough time wasted on BS.]
« Last Edit: January 19, 2020, 11:18:27 PM by Florifulgurator »
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Neven

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1006 on: January 20, 2020, 12:19:24 AM »
Here is what was said, and I insist taking it literally. It's as f-ing simple as that. Liz has not accused Bernie of sexism.  That is a stupid misinterpretation or exaggeration - independent of who said it. It is as simple as that, and it should be easy to grasp.

It's easy to grasp now, thanks, and I hadn't read Ryan Grim's take on it yet (a journalist I take seriously). Maybe there is another explanation, but I still find the timing extremely dubious.

The thing is: Warren or her campaign team did nothing to dispel it. No explaining, just vague statements, even during the debate. She could've explained it like Grim does in two sentences. But she didn't. And then she confronted Sanders while the cameras and mikes were still running, as if she didn't know that.

In the meantime she voted for Trump's NAFTA 2.0 bill.

Amazing...

BTW Is it true that Warren was a Republican and turned Democrat at age 50?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 12:27:13 AM by Neven »
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oren

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1007 on: January 20, 2020, 01:47:03 AM »
Well, she probably had a difficulty discerning between the two parties...

Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1008 on: January 20, 2020, 04:16:41 AM »
The thing is: Warren or her campaign team did nothing to dispel it. No explaining, just vague statements, even during the debate. She could've explained it like Grim does in two sentences. But she didn't. And then she confronted Sanders while the cameras and mikes were still running, as if she didn't know that.
Yes. That's why I think she's a bad choice for presidental candidate. Just like Hillary, professor Liz has trouble explaining the obvious. She can't see that others dont see it.  Or, that the public aren't just students who themselves are responsible when not paying attention and failing the class.  The Trumpists would steamroll her, with eager help from the progressive punditry (where I smell (subconscious) sexism in several heads. An intelligent woman doing substance triggers the college boys' envy.  (Glaring example: Jimmy Dore, esp. with a well-known lesbo :) .)).

Looks like Bernie understood that. But he failed explaining it just like Liz.

I'm lucky and happy for the article. He confirms exactly what I thought from the beginning. I'm not surpised the lefty punditry (wannabe or not) couldn't smell the rat. (Didn't check Jimmy Dore :) ) Only Michael Moore seriously disappoints me here.

CNN should do a public apology. At least Michael Moore should kick their butts. But I'm not holding my breath. :)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 06:56:21 AM by Florifulgurator »
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1009 on: January 20, 2020, 07:52:05 AM »
Liz has not accused Bernie of sexism.

That's a rather naive statement, don't you think?

What does it imply if Bernie really said that?
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1010 on: January 21, 2020, 05:21:28 AM »
Liz has not accused Bernie of sexism.

That's a rather naive statement, don't you think?

What does it imply if Bernie really said that?
Continue stirring the steaming BS...?
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1011 on: January 21, 2020, 09:19:53 AM »
Sanders apologizes to Biden, for an op-ed re-posted by his campaign :

Quote
Mr. Sanders distanced himself from the piece by Zephyr Teachout, an associate professor at Fordham Law School, former New York political candidate and longtime supporter of Mr. Sanders. The op-ed, published on Monday in The Guardian, argued that Mr. Biden “represents the transactional, grossly corrupt culture in Washington that long precedes Trump.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/21/us/politics/bernie-sanders-apologizes-joe-biden.html

Good on you, Bernie !

Not just was that Zephyr Teachout going too far, assigning "corruption" where even by Zephyr's own assessment that Trump's corruption is 1000x worse than Biden's (if any), but it also runs against Bernie's paradigm to BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER, not drive them apart.

I have even more respect for Bernie Sanders now than before this incident.

<snip, none of that lesser evil stupidity here, thanks; N.>
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 11:05:55 PM by Neven »
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blumenkraft

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1012 on: January 21, 2020, 10:02:40 AM »
Continue stirring the steaming BS...?

Yeah sure, i'm stirring to all of my millions of followers, eh?

Dude, watch some of that CNN shit you like to share here. Look at them and how they stir. Don't fucking tell me!
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1013 on: January 21, 2020, 10:53:51 PM »
Funny how you want to perpetuate the Chinese whispers started by CNN.

<snip; N.>
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 11:07:43 PM by Neven »
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1014 on: January 21, 2020, 11:25:45 PM »
I have even more respect for Bernie Sanders now than before this incident.

I'm quite sure Sanders doesn't want to lose your vote. But Biden is still 100% corrupt, just like Trump, serving concentrated wealth and not the people.
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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1015 on: January 22, 2020, 12:44:45 AM »
The Dem circular firing squad in full glory. 2016 deja vu all over again. They even got a new Hillary: Elisabeth Warren.

But Biden is still 100% corrupt, just like Trump
(I guess you are joking, but cf. my lessons on simplistic logic elsewhere.)

Meanwhile even Bernie took that back:

https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/why-hillary-clinton-just-made-her-big-2020-move/24593/
[quote---------
First the Bernie Sanders campaign issued dishonest talking points aimed at harming Elizabeth Warren. Then the Bernie campaign released a video which purported to show Joe Biden talking about cutting Medicare and Social Security, when in fact Biden was mocking Paul Ryan’s desire to cut those programs. Then a key longtime Bernie surrogate published an op-ed accusing Biden of “corruption” – coming dangerously close to aligning with Donald Trump’s lies about Biden.

The toxic divisiveness coming from the Bernie Sanders campaign has gotten so dangerously out of control, Sanders ended up publicly apologizing to Biden last night over the op-ed.

[...]
---------/quote]

I've seen a bit of Bernie's condescending body language. After the Warren-Sanders-CNN debacle I now tend to believe Hillary's assessment:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/hillary-clinton-full-a-fiery-new-documentary-trump-regrets-harsh-words-bernie-1271551
[quote---------
He was in Congress for years. He had one senator support him. Nobody likes him, nobody wants to work with him, he got nothing done. He was a career politician. It's all just baloney and I feel so bad that people got sucked into it.
---------/quote]

Hahaaahahahaha...
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1016 on: January 22, 2020, 03:24:18 AM »
I have even more respect for Bernie Sanders now than before this incident.

I'm quite sure Sanders doesn't want to lose your vote. But Biden is still 100% corrupt, just like Trump, serving concentrated wealth and not the people.

So let me get this straight.
Even after Bernie says this :

Quote
“It is absolutely not my view that Joe is corrupt in any way. And I’m sorry that that op-ed appeared,”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/21/us/politics/bernie-sanders-apologizes-joe-biden.html

you still argue that "Biden is still 100% corrupt" ?
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1017 on: January 22, 2020, 07:29:37 AM »
Martin, i'm pretty sure you know how American politicians are financed? Saying they are not corrupt, is just ignoring what you actually know.

Meaning, your comment is one extreme display of cognitive dissonance.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1018 on: January 22, 2020, 08:01:36 AM »
Not that Sanders will have an easier time as president, but here is a blast from the past:

"none of his Senate colleagues, on either side of the aisle, think he could ever be elected president of the United States; most of them even believe he shouldn't be."

"Sanders has managed to be respected — even liked — by much of the chamber, according to members on both sides of the aisle. "

"But most of all, members say, even when Sanders is ideologically an outlier, he lets others know where he stands. He's not the type to suddenly stab a colleague in the back. And that's earned him respect both on and off the Hill."

"He always acts on what he believes. We can agree or disagree, but you know where he stands."

"He knew when to hold and knew when to fold"

 "his word is good."

"He would call them 'tripartite amendments' because we'd have him and he'd get a Republican, he'd get a Democrat and he'd pass things. He's good at building coalitions,"

"I learned early on not to be automatically dismissive of a Bernie Sanders initiative or amendment,"

"But he's tenacious and dogged and has determination, and he's not to be underestimated."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/bernie-sanders-is-a-loud-stubborn-socialist-republicans-like-him-anyway/450597/

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Florifulgurator

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1019 on: January 22, 2020, 08:18:25 AM »
Chinese whispers started by CNN.

And here they go again:
CNN titles "Clinton says 'nobody likes' Sanders and won't commit to backing him if he's the Democratic nominee"
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/21/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-documentary/index.html

Which is not what she said in the The Hollywood Reporter interview:
Quote
[Q:]If he gets the nomination, will you endorse and campaign for him?

[A:]I'm not going to go there yet. We're still in a very vigorous primary season. I will say, however, that it's not only him, it's the culture around him. It's his leadership team. It's his prominent supporters. It's his online Bernie Bros and their relentless attacks on lots of his competitors, particularly the women. [...]
(my emph.)

Now let's see how the punditry continues the chinese whispering...
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 08:32:06 AM by Florifulgurator »
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1020 on: January 22, 2020, 08:34:58 AM »
Ergo, they are all the same and there is no point voting at all.
Q.E.D.
Trumputin strategy.

Where is the logic here? You know there is one candidate not taking corporate money! How come you don't remember just now?
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1021 on: January 22, 2020, 09:25:29 AM »
These two need to STOP fighting each other over silly stuff that they basically agree on, and just present their own plans for the future of the US and beating Trump.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1022 on: January 22, 2020, 02:55:34 PM »
<snip, 1. You said it was stupid to continue the Chinese whisper stuff, but you keep talking about it, 2. Will you please not post deranged stuff anymore, especially if it serves the interessts of the establishment and existing political/economic system? N.>
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 07:38:36 PM by Neven »
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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1023 on: January 22, 2020, 03:09:53 PM »
Please stop posting obvious fake news, Martin! This is not MSNBC fantasy land.

In other news,

Quote
Bernie Sanders surges to lead in new national CNN poll: Bernie 27 (+7), Biden 24(-2), Warren 14 (-2)
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1024 on: January 22, 2020, 05:21:09 PM »
Please stop posting obvious fake news, Martin! This is not MSNBC fantasy land.

In other news,

Quote
Bernie Sanders surges to lead in new national CNN poll: Bernie 27 (+7), Biden 24(-2), Warren 14 (-2)

Speaking of fake news, I see you prefer to post only those polls showing Sanders doing the best, while ignoring all others.  Two other polls were released at the same time, showing Biden with a 7-pt and 5-pt lead.  Six polls were released last week.  They showed Biden with leads of 9, 6, 10, 6, 7, and 11.  CNN may just be an outlier.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1025 on: January 22, 2020, 05:41:23 PM »
Are you implying that this poll is on the same level of fake news as the body-language lady?

I hope not! So you are just pointing out that i do have a bias. I never hid my bias, why would it be a point to make in the first place?

But to the point, it's obvious Bernie is surging in the polls lately. Most recent polls have him on top within the margins of error. Still not fake news, Walrus.





 
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1026 on: January 22, 2020, 07:00:05 PM »
Are you implying that this poll is on the same level of fake news as the body-language lady?

I hope not! So you are just pointing out that i do have a bias. I never hid my bias, why would it be a point to make in the first place?

But to the point, it's obvious Bernie is surging in the polls lately. Most recent polls have him on top within the margins of error. Still not fake news, Walrus.



Really?  All told, ten major polling agencies have released their results this calendar year.  Nine out of ten show Biden ahead, by an average of 9 percentage points.  Only one, your recent CNN poll shows Sanders leading.  The NY Times has stated, “A new national poll shows Senator Bernie Sanders with a lead in a national debate qualifying poll for the first time”.  One is not the same as most.  Borderline fake news, at best.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1027 on: January 22, 2020, 07:08:56 PM »
Really?

Yes, really. :)

I stand by what i said. And you don't get to twist my words.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1028 on: January 22, 2020, 07:15:06 PM »
Bernie Sanders Leads Donald Trump By Widest Margin Of All 2020 Candidates: Election Poll

Link >> https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-trump-poll-election-2020-biden-bloomberg-1483423
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1029 on: January 22, 2020, 07:41:53 PM »
CNN poll
[...]CNN may just be an outlier.
Funny how he suddenly likes CNN. On this very page Blumi accused me of posting too much CNN sh#. ROTFL.

Now, taking advice from the Maha Mangala Sutta, I will abstain from this thread for a week.
Google image search on my avatar image gives "wood". In fact it is the lower part of David Hilbert's tombstone.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1030 on: January 22, 2020, 07:44:26 PM »
Hey folks, remember when Joe Biden was all about working together with the Republicans?

Well, he changed his mind. Apparently, when they want him to talk about his corruption he is in the opposite camp all of a sudden, doesn't even want to talk to them anymore.

This dude has surely nothing to hide...
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1031 on: January 22, 2020, 07:49:07 PM »
So, Martin, i take it you also don't understand that there is a difference between a self-proclaimed 'body language "expert"' and a poll either?


“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1032 on: January 22, 2020, 11:35:37 PM »
Really?

Yes, really. :)

I stand by what i said. And you don't get to twist my words.

I am not twisting your words.  You cleared stated, “most recent polls have him [Sanders] on the top within the margins of error.”  Unless you have a different definition of “margin of error,” Biden is leading in most polls by greater than the margin of error.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1033 on: January 23, 2020, 12:28:21 AM »
Klein at the intercept: the Sanders campaign is different

"Bernie will fight for us because he always has. That he has the courage to take on the billionaire class. That he has a path to victory because of the unprecedented grassroots movement that the campaign has built."

“but what I have found is that the most important thing we can do is listen. People need to share their stories. That’s even more important than talking.”

"sounds less like conventional electoral campaigning and more like old-school political organizing "

“imagining a presidential campaign that brings people out of alienation and into the political process simply by presenting stories where you might recognize some of your own struggles. He is imagining a voter, he says, who thinks, I thought it was just me who was struggling to put food on the table. I thought I was the only person. I thought it was all my fault. You mean to say there are millions of people?”

"In a culture expert at the art of isolation and disempowerment, it takes real effort to persuade a group of beat-up people that they could be part of ushering in a radically different future."

"while a great many Americans are asked to kill and die for their country, they are almost never asked — across divisions of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and nationality — to stand up and fight for one another. "

“You know what beats the politics of hate? The politics of solidarity.”

"social media will always be a double-edged sword for the Sanders campaign."

"These platforms are for-profit data extraction mills ruled by black-box algorithms that are designed to maximize “engagement” (aka conflict) in ways that are almost the precise inverse of the cultural shift the campaign is attempting to achieve."

"Twitter’s algorithms goad us into brawling with one another over every perceived slight. And even as the campaign encourages us to put “me” on the back burner and find the biggest possible “us,” Twitter (and Instagram and Facebook) are designed for us to flaunt and curate an idealized version of ourselves that is too often going to make somebody else feel like crap."

https://theintercept.com/2020/01/22/bernie-sanders-movement-solidarity/

sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1034 on: January 23, 2020, 01:13:45 PM »
Well, this certainly didn’t age well...

“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1035 on: January 23, 2020, 04:31:26 PM »
Also not fake news:

Sanders Widens Lead In N.H. In New WBUR Poll

Link >> https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/01/23/new-hampshire-bernie-sanders-lead-january
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1036 on: January 23, 2020, 07:19:27 PM »
Also not fake news:

Bernie is tanking in Iowa with less than two weeks until the caucuses. He came in 4th place in the most recent poll, 10 points behind Biden.

It looks like Biden, Bernie, Warren, and Buttigieg could all win delegates due to the caucus format. The winner may be determined by how supporters of the lower tier candidates vote in the second round. Or someone could end up with a blowout win if one of the top four slips to below 15%. For instance, if Buttigieg gets less than 15%, Biden will probably take most of the Buttigieg and Klobuchar supporters in round 2. Or if Warren gets less than 15%, Bernie would pickup Warren/Yang/Gabbard support.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1037 on: January 23, 2020, 07:48:05 PM »
Link?
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain


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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1039 on: January 23, 2020, 08:51:15 PM »
Also not fake news:

Bernie is tanking in Iowa with less than two weeks until the caucuses. He came in 4th place in the most recent poll, 10 points behind Biden.

What are you talking about?
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1040 on: January 23, 2020, 10:16:50 PM »
Also not fake news:

Bernie is tanking in Iowa with less than two weeks until the caucuses. He came in 4th place in the most recent poll, 10 points behind Biden.

What are you talking about?

He is doing the same thing you do; use the most recent poll as the sole authority.  He is correct in that the most recent poll (focus on rural America) has Sanders trailing Biden by 10 pts.  Comparing that to the poll 10 days ago by the Des Moines register one which Sanders led by 5, then he appear to be tanking.  The opposite of surging, when one poll shows significantly higher numbers that others.  Different pollsters have different biases.  If you look at similar polling agencies over the past several months, they has been little change for either candidate.  Caucuses are notoriously harder to predict than primaries, and the polls may not be representative of the party voters.  We are coming down to the wire in Iowa. The bottom line is this:  Sanders need a good showing (anything less than first, would not be considered good).  Buttigieg needs to finish in the top three, and preferably top two.  Biden just needs to be near the top.  The rest of the field needs to place high enough to receive delegates, lest they fade into oblivion.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1041 on: January 24, 2020, 12:05:33 AM »
Also not fake news:
Bernie is tanking in Iowa with less than two weeks until the caucuses. He came in 4th place in the most recent poll, 10 points behind Biden.
What are you talking about?

The RCP Iowa average has seen Sanders dip from 22% to 17% in the last week or so. The "tanking" comment was indeed tongue in cheek. You've been posting about Sanders "surges" for months, but it's really only been valid in the last week nationally. He had been between 15% and 20% since April. If the recent bump above 20% qualifies as a surge (which I would say is fair), then he is simultaneously "tanking" in Iowa. But as I mentioned, Iowa is a different beast since it is a caucus rather than a primary. With three candidates sitting right above the 15% cutoff, there's a wide range of potential outcomes.

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1042 on: January 24, 2020, 01:45:02 AM »
Sanders +14 in New Hampshire since December!
I have amazing news for you. Man is not alone on this planet. He is part of a community, upon which he depends absolutely.
- Ishmael

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1043 on: January 24, 2020, 07:49:05 AM »
20 Years Ago:
Bernie SLAMMED The Corporate Media Machine.


“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1044 on: January 24, 2020, 05:34:03 PM »
Is Bernie Becoming a Lock in New Hampshire?
New 2020 Democratic Primary Poll


“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1045 on: January 24, 2020, 05:42:11 PM »
Let's hope Sanders doesn't offend fickle establishment voters like Rob Dekker by pointing out Biden has always wanted to cut social security (because he works for his donors, not the American people, which is a way of saying he's 100% corrupt):

Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1046 on: January 25, 2020, 12:10:58 AM »
America's Finest News Source: Sanders Sends A Dangerous Message

"a dangerous message that the candidate is trying to win "

"exposing Sanders’s goal of winning the Democratic primary and eventually the general election."

"like his whole strategy is beating Trump"

"truly sickened to see it rearing its ugly head"

"even more disturbing that Sanders would attempt this during an election year."

https://politics.theonion.com/liberals-say-sanders-s-acceptance-of-rogan-endorsement-1841208921

sidd

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1047 on: January 25, 2020, 02:16:13 AM »
America's Finest News Source: Sanders Sends A Dangerous Message

"a dangerous message that the candidate is trying to win "

"exposing Sanders’s goal of winning the Democratic primary and eventually the general election."

"like his whole strategy is beating Trump"

"truly sickened to see it rearing its ugly head"

"even more disturbing that Sanders would attempt this during an election year."

https://politics.theonion.com/liberals-say-sanders-s-acceptance-of-rogan-endorsement-1841208921

sidd

Yes.  Heaven forbid he should be trying to win.

TerryM

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1048 on: January 25, 2020, 04:01:16 AM »
Is the DNC's Primary something to be won, or does it represent something one is appointed, or annointed to?


We may soon find out.
Terry

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Re: Who should be the Democratic nominee for President in 2020?
« Reply #1049 on: January 25, 2020, 08:16:20 AM »
This chart matters!

It shows that if it's not Bernie as a nominee, the Dems will not be able to bring enough people out to vote. It's that simple.

It's really Bernie or Trump. You chose.
“I’m an introvert. I’m just different that’s all. I’m so sorry. I don’t have a gun. I don’t do that stuff... All I was trying to do was to become better. I’ll do it... You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful. And I love you. Try to forgive me. I’m sorry.”

Elijah McClain