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Lurk

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #600 on: February 02, 2019, 09:17:58 AM »
It's hard to know how more plainly it can be said or what could possibly chnage people;s minds who have already foolishly made them up:

 ‘Moral disgrace’: EU Parliament lectures world on rule of law, then destroys legality in Venezuela
John Laughland, who has a doctorate in philosophy from the University of Oxford and who has taught at universities in Paris and Rome, is a historian and specialist in international affairs.

The resolution voted by the European Parliament is actually worse than President Trump’s “recognition” of Guaido on January 23. Four political groups in the European Parliament, acting independently of one another before later agreeing on a common resolution, sat down to formulate their texts, in legal language, which state that Juan Guaido is the legitimate president “according to Article 233 of the Venezuelan constitution.”

That they did this, and that the common resolution was then voted by all but 100 or so MEPs, is a frightening illustration of power of groupthink. Or perhaps it is just dishonesty. No one who has ever read Article 233 of the Venezuelan constitution could possibly conclude that it says anything of the kind.

On the contrary, Article 233 is precisely what Juan Guaido violated when he performed his little stunt of proclaiming himself president in a public square in Caracas on January 23.

Most countries’ constitutions have articles like Article 233 of the Constitution of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. It deals with what happens if the president of the Republic does not, or cannot, fulfil his duties.

It lists six circumstances in which his term can be cut short: if he dies; if he resigns; if he is removed from office by a ruling of the country’s supreme court; if he is proclaimed physically or mentally unfit after a formal medical procedure validated by the National Assembly and by the supreme court; if he abandons his office; or if he is impeached by a popular referendum.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/450348-eu-parliament-venezuela-legal/

But who cares when it's the WASPs who rule the whole world today.

No one really gives a toss about former colonies filled with natives and imported slaves that once belonged to Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, France, Italy or Germany.
Solving Climate Change means changing 'The System' because nothing changes when nothing changes.
Each one of us must consider our deepest values, proceed to act from this standpoint alone, ignoring other voices of illusion, false hope, and distraction that might threaten to throw us off course.

Lurk

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #601 on: February 03, 2019, 01:52:59 AM »
Moderate Rebels episode 35:

Max Blumenthal and Ben Norton speak with Aline Piva, who lives and teaches in Caracas, Venezuela and explains what's really going on in the country, with a US-led coup attempt to install the right-wing opposition. We discuss the economic warfare and US sanctions on Venezuela, the daily life and problems, coup leader Juan Guaidó and the opposition's neoliberal politics, and the geopolitics of regime change against Nicolás Maduro.

Solving Climate Change means changing 'The System' because nothing changes when nothing changes.
Each one of us must consider our deepest values, proceed to act from this standpoint alone, ignoring other voices of illusion, false hope, and distraction that might threaten to throw us off course.

Lurk

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #602 on: February 04, 2019, 02:01:31 AM »



09:04
now before they dropped the bombs of
course they dropped the narrative and
this narrative about the supposed basket
case of Venezuela the bankruptcy of
socialism as if Venezuela was a
socialist country which it isn't
this has
been being dropped now for years under
Chavez and Maduro they have softened up
I can only speak for the British public
but I've just been with some people who
ought to know better who imagined that
Maduro has been deficient in some way in
the economic problems that now beset
Venezuela but in truth Venezuela is in
economic trouble because of American
sanctions sabotage
and the American
drive to keep the oil price down

precisely to cause problems for
Venezuela Russia and Iran am I not right


10:14
you're absolutely right and I want to
get into that in a second but getting to
the earlier point of the statements you
were making the history of how media is
involved in international relations this
is going to be a very interesting case
study hopefully in a saner world

possibly in a Chinese university in 30
years time when they look at how the
West manipulates its audience -- in the
Vietnam War the film reels because it
was film in those days that were coming
back stateside to be processed showed a
war that was far uglier than the
establishment wanted people to imagine

by 1990 the establishment realized that
televised images don't always go in
their favor

and so the Gulf War of 1990 managed it
was now live TV satellite TV no need for
the film reels to be processed in the
Iraq war of 2003
it was much the same I
could say that about 1999 in Yugoslavia
but that was being ignored because
Monica Lewinsky was of course in the
news
while Tony Blair quietly made a
speech at the University of Chicago
saying that you help people by killing
people
this perverse thesis that many
just accept is true without questioning
the logic of it now
though we've taken
it a step further the the powers that be
saw how during the Syria crisis the
power of individuals on social media
challenging the official narrative could
actually make waves people saying - hold
on I don't think what you're saying is
right' hold on someone on the ground has
sent me this evidence which contradicts
what you've got via satellite from the
Holiday Inn or Marriott Hotel in Beirut
from someone who's never even set foot
in Syria -- gideon wise to that they've
realized that you've got to control the
social media narrative
and so you had
the phenomenon speaking of this guy who
on why either the fake president of
venezuela he had the blue checkmark on
twitter was tweeting images of him
swearing himself in as president in the
middle of the street
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 02:20:33 AM by Lurk »
Solving Climate Change means changing 'The System' because nothing changes when nothing changes.
Each one of us must consider our deepest values, proceed to act from this standpoint alone, ignoring other voices of illusion, false hope, and distraction that might threaten to throw us off course.

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #603 on: February 05, 2019, 12:34:10 AM »
Taibbi at rollingstone on US senate endorsement of war:

"But every Senate Democrat who’s even rumored to be running for president voted nay. The list included Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Kirsten Gillibrand, Amy Klobuchar and Jeff Merkley. Sherrod Brown did not vote.

Was it possible that their reluctance was connected to the fact that survey after survey shows the public has lost appetite for our Middle East wars ... "

" ... the Senate never demanded a vote on the presence of American troops ..."

"Yet when Trump decided he was going to withdraw forces from Syria and Afghanistan, suddenly it was We Are The World time on the Hill. Republicans and the non-presidential candidates on the Democrat side joined hands to renounce the executive branch for daring to withdraw troops from somewhere without permission."

"When Trump tried to withdraw troops from two countries, what happened? Congress, snoring on this issue since at least 2001, threw a fit ..."

"If Congress refuses to stop wars and the president isn’t allowed to, exactly where does the ordinary person have input on these questions? "

" ... they’ve lost confidence in Washington’s ability to avoid making these situations worse through military action ... "

read the whole thing:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/syria-afghanistan-vote-788308/

sidd

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #604 on: February 05, 2019, 12:41:38 AM »
Wonders will never cease: chief warmongering publication reaches Kronstadt moment, recants

"Mr. Trump’s foreign policy ... is right ...  to scale back a global conflict that appears to have no outer bound."

Bet it hurt to say that. All this time you guys were for "Bellum sine fine," no matter which puppet was in power. And Trump could do no right.

" This page has been supportive of the war in Afghanistan since it began."

No shit.

"Events have shown us to have been overly optimistic ..."

You don't say ?

"The plan is failing. "

When did you come to this stunning revelation ?

"It is time to face the cruel truth that at best, the war is deadlocked, and at worst, it is hopeless. "

Alas !

"a negotiated capitulation"

Run away !

"The military has given honorable service. "

Never mind about the war crimes.

" It’s time to bring them home. "

What's the matter ? Mil-ind didn't buy enuf ads in your rag this quarter ?

I refuse to make it easy. Search for NYT editorial, if you really want to read yellow journalism.

sidd


« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 12:55:12 AM by sidd »

Lurk

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #605 on: February 05, 2019, 04:45:22 AM »
So it's Nixon's Peace with Honor all over again.

Americans have an extreme and very unique definition for the word 'Honor.'

---

It's a very off-beat world now. The worst of the psychopaths don't even bother to try to pretend anymore.

As Bush-era arch-hawk John Bolton put it, the US had “a lot at stake” in Venezuela’s affairs. “It will make a big difference to the United States economically if we could have American oil companies invest in and produce the oil capabilities in Venezuela,” he told Fox Business host Trish Regan.

What's go for business what's good for the Corporate Establishment is automatically framed as being good for the whole world. This is delusional thinking writ large and it permeates the entire MSM in the US like it's the Apostle's Creed being repeated endlessly until everyone believes it due to repetition.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 04:16:48 AM by Lurk »
Solving Climate Change means changing 'The System' because nothing changes when nothing changes.
Each one of us must consider our deepest values, proceed to act from this standpoint alone, ignoring other voices of illusion, false hope, and distraction that might threaten to throw us off course.

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #606 on: February 06, 2019, 07:49:19 AM »
As does Empire, so do satraps: Ian Cobain at middleeasteye

" allowed soldiers to shoot unarmed civilians who were suspected of keeping them under surveillance"

" casualties included a number of children and teenage boys"

"infantrymen allege that they ...  were at one point told that they had permission to shoot anyone seen holding a mobile telephone, carrying a shovel, or acting in any way suspiciously."

"one of his officers confessed to his men ...  after the child’s father carried his body to the entrance ...and demanded an explanation."

" a cover-up was mounted after the fatal shooting of two unarmed teenage boys ... A pair of Soviet-era weapons were removed from a store at the British soldiers’ base, he said, and placed next to the bodies to give the false impression that the teenagers had been armed Taliban fighters."

" ... witnessed the fatal shootings of significant numbers of civilians in Basra, and does not believe that all the victims were keeping British troops under surveillance"

" ...  were promised that they would be protected in the event of any investigation .. Just say you genuinely thought your life was at risk ... "

“without ministers having to tell parliament and cause a big hullabaloo across the liberal sections of the media”

"under the new rules they could shoot anyone seen with a mobile telephone, carrying a shovel, or acting suspiciously, such as being on the roof of a building."

"soldiers say they were not expected to ask for permission before opening fire."

“Anyone you deem is a terrorist, you shoot them”

 “We were shooting old men, young men. This is what I witnessed. I have never seen such lawlessness.”

"talked repeatedly of how “they wanted a kill” before their tour ended. "

“We saw him working in his field, and when we came under fire we saw him running away. He wasn’t in the same direction as the Taliban, he had his back towards us, and he was just shot in the back.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/exclusive-british-army-permitted-shooting-civilians-iraq-and-afghanistan

sidd

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #607 on: February 06, 2019, 07:53:46 AM »
My, my. Karzai back in the game. I guess the Popalazai won't let him out as long as he sticks about in Afghanistan. If he stays, his people insist he is a power player.

"A new round of talks involving the Taliban will begin Tuesday in Moscow, and once again Afghanistan’s Ghani government is not invited."

"the negotiations will see the Taliban meeting with dozens of Afghan opposition figures. Among them is former President Hamid Karzai ..."

https://news.antiwar.com/2019/02/04/afghan-govt-furious-as-taliban-heads-to-russia-for-talks/

sidd

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #608 on: February 06, 2019, 07:55:59 AM »
Snider at antiwar takes a walk down memory lane: deja vu all over again, like yogi berra said

"A ... Venezuelan president with left leaning politics who clashed with conservatives and governed as a nationalist who was concerned with American power and influence in Latin America  ... taken out of power with US assistance. "

2019 ? no, 1908.

Read the whole thing:

https://original.antiwar.com/Ted_Snider/2019/02/03/what-the-media-wont-tell-you-about-the-venezuelan-coup/

sidd

Pmt111500

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #609 on: February 06, 2019, 10:08:37 AM »
Pompeo seized the Venezuelan moneys for something else than Venezuela. I didn't know he wants a wall too, but it's a quick conclusion. Please prove me wrong. Do we see an internal republican fight over foreign moneys of a c. 0.7% of the cost of the wall. Will this break up the predator party.
Amateur observations of Sea Ice since 2003.

Neven

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #610 on: February 06, 2019, 10:18:11 AM »
Some more from neocon psychopath Max Boot (in a normal, sane country, people like this wouldn't have such easy access to media):

Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #611 on: February 08, 2019, 12:34:46 AM »

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #612 on: February 10, 2019, 01:54:23 AM »
Eliot Abrams up to his old trix again: Arms seized off US flagged plane in Venezuela from Miami.

The quantity is laughably small, the plane had made eight flights in all to Venezuela, so conceivably there were more. But this is exactly what you need for a Ukrainian style false flag attack on a mass gathering, and then blame the government ...

Another Maidan coming up is my guess. Sorta like the chemical attacks in Syria every time the US made noises about pulling out.

That airline companies involved have ties to CIA rendition flights.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/latin-america/article225949200.html#cardLink=row4_card1

https://www.miamiherald.com/article226011940.html

This guy is connecting the dots:

https://twitter.com/steffanwatkins/status/1094008901618552833

Another interesting link is Freeland: Canadian Foreign Minister.

https://off-guardian.org/2019/02/07/how-chrystia-freeland-organized-donald-trumps-coup-in-venezuela/

sidd

Neven

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #613 on: February 10, 2019, 07:27:23 PM »
American hero:

Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #614 on: February 11, 2019, 09:41:13 AM »
Scheer Intelligence has a very goot interview with Ron Kovic and Danny Sjursen. Ron Kovic is the man who is depicted in the Oliver Stone film "Born on the Fourth of July."

Sjursen: " And I would submit that between Vietnam and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, in one sense we, the collective we, this society has learned very little, and made some of the same mistakes. But then in another sense, the foreign policy elites have learned something rather profound. "

"the foreign policy elite, the militarists who run this government, learned a different lesson. And the lesson they learned is that if you conscript people, if you draft people, if you bring the American people along into a war, then there might be protests. There might be people who turn against that war when the time comes. But if you send a small group of volunteers over, and over, and over again, even to fruitless wars that are not in our national security interests—like Iraq, like Afghanistan, like Syria—you can maintain a war endlessly. "

"I went to Iraq first and then Afghanistan—really shattered those illusions that America was a humanitarian force for good. Instead, in Iraq, I saw us shatter a society that went into a civil war, in addition to attacking us. And watched how we had just completely destroyed that country through our ill-advised invasion. And then in Afghanistan, I found an unwinnable war that was probably more similar to Vietnam than the Iraq War was, in the sense that it turned out that all the Afghans were not Americans secretly waiting to jump out of their skins. They didn’t want the American version of government, and they did not see us as legitimate. "

"What I really saw was the results of American messianism in the world, of American exceptionalism, the notion that we could remake societies in our own image. What it really meant was a whole lot of dead children, a whole lot of car bombs, a whole lot of teenagers shooting each other in the night. And then of course, a whole lot of Americans getting killed as well, although less of us than the Iraqis. When I went to Afghanistan three years later, I no longer had any faith in the wars; I was just a professional. "

"what I found there was slightly different from Iraq. It wasn’t so much a civil war as it was a mass insurgency that we were never going to break. And it turns out, we only held the ground we stood on, which probably sounds very familiar to Mr. Kovic. "

Kovic: " I and other veterans who opposed that war [Vietnam] during that time, in the late sixties and early seventies, we knew that every day was important in trying to save lives. We were here back at home, we had come back from the war, but we knew how important it was that we protest that war, do everything possible to speak out until our voices were raw, against that war. And I remember, you know, sitting behind bars; I hated it, I didn’t like—I was already in a wheelchair for the rest of my life, and here I was inside of a jail cell. It wasn’t fun. But all I could think of was, whatever it takes, you know, to stop this war. I had been inspired while in the hospital by Martin Luther King and others. And I knew that that war that I had fought in and sacrificed in was wrong, and we had to do everything possible, and it was hurting my country deeply as well."

Sjursen: " When I was put in front of those cadets and asked to teach American history in the normal patriotic lens, I couldn’t do it. And I think that was the breaking point. And at that point, I decided to do what Ron Kovic decided to do, which is to speak out every day to try to minimize the number of Americans that die in these wars. And that’s where I’m at now, and I wish it would have happened sooner for me, but I can’t go back and change that. All I can do now is bring a new version of patriotism, and that is dissent against meaningless, harmful wars."

The whole article is very, very worth reading:

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-great-con-of-american-patriotism/

sidd

Neven

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #615 on: February 14, 2019, 09:54:09 AM »
From elsewhere:

More on the American-Military-Industrial-Congressional-Media-Think-Tank Complex



Phil Donahue on Democracy Now in 2013 reflecting on him being fired.
03:32
"What happened to me, the biggest lesson I think is the how corporate media shapes our opinions and our coverage. This was a decision, the decision to release me came from far above. This was not a system program director who decided to separate me from MSNBC. They were terrified of the anti-war voice and that is not an overstatement."


Jimmy Dore who annoys the crap out of some people here again speaks the truth of what happened by relaying the Historical Facts of the matter (the thing that Journalists are originally trained to do!) :
02:02
When Phil Donahue was fired they said it was for low ratings. He had the highest-rated show (on the network) and then a little while later guess what was revealed? There was a memo came out from the top brass at NBC that said: 'Phil Donahue against the war is a bad look for us, especially when we're selling war and we make a lot of money off a war' ..... because they're owned by General Electric at the time and General Electric makes you know (Military stuff) their biggest customer was the US Defense Department. Donald Rumsfeld was General Electrics biggest customer when Phil Donahue was talking against the war so they had to shut him up and they fired him.  Then it got revealed through that memo. Nobody ever talks about that!"


Now let's go bomb the crap out of Venezuela who are clearly EVIL because China, Russia and Turkey and Italy and Greece plus all the other sane rational non-psychopaths in the world say we shouldn't.

ref: https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,617.msg188933.html#msg188933
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Lurk

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #616 on: February 14, 2019, 12:22:45 PM »
Frankly I can not even imagine what kind of stuff is going to go down between now and the 2020 elections. This congress is only a month old and I am getting worn out already ROFL

Omar's performance was soon trending on social media, with the congresswoman polarizing the country for the second time in a week. While critics of the US' never-ending regime-change operations cheered her on, conservatives looked askance at the Somalian immigrant's accent and her mispronunciations of several key words central to her questioning




I love it!!! "Thank you for your participation." LOL
Solving Climate Change means changing 'The System' because nothing changes when nothing changes.
Each one of us must consider our deepest values, proceed to act from this standpoint alone, ignoring other voices of illusion, false hope, and distraction that might threaten to throw us off course.

Lurk

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #617 on: February 14, 2019, 02:44:21 PM »
30 min report on Venezuela by ABC tv Australia way back in  March 2017 ... many interesting anecdotes about the already dire situation back then.

Solving Climate Change means changing 'The System' because nothing changes when nothing changes.
Each one of us must consider our deepest values, proceed to act from this standpoint alone, ignoring other voices of illusion, false hope, and distraction that might threaten to throw us off course.

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #618 on: February 15, 2019, 06:27:44 AM »
America's Finest News Source: Everybody was doin the Abrams shuffle

"Elliott Abrams defended Wednesday the war crimes he committed in Latin America by pointing out that it was just something everyone was doing ... "

"You’d find a military force friendly to American business interests, get them to slaughter anyone who wasn’t, and then dismiss the victims as communist guerillas. "

" Hell, I knew people who would make fun of you if you hadn’t committed a war crime or two."

Plus ca change ...

https://politics.theonion.com/elliott-abrams-defends-war-crimes-as-happening-back-in-1832632902

sidd

Lurk

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #619 on: February 15, 2019, 10:14:14 AM »
Fait accompli

US, Saudis, Israel and their allies successfully reinstall Military Dictator for Life in Egypt - Mubarek 2.0.1 after a short-lived temporary side-track into democratic elections, a new Constitution and all the way back again. Good job all. You did it!

Egypt’s parliament approves ‘in principle’ changes that could extend Sisi’s term

The Egyptian parliament on Thursday approved in principle proposed constitutional amendments that would allow President Abdel Fatah el-Sisi to stay in power until 2034 and boost his control of the judiciary. Parliament Speaker Ali Abdelaal said that 485 MPs of the 596-seat assembly voted in favor of the changes, comprising more than the two-thirds majority needed to pass the amendments, Reuters reports. The proposed changes will now go for a review in a parliamentary committee and then return to parliament for a second vote before they are presented for a national referendum. It is expected before the middle of the year.

The only thing left now to do is the 'paperwork' - I am sure the Iranians and Venezuelans are looking forward to their "democratic freedoms" (sic) being imposed upon them too.
Solving Climate Change means changing 'The System' because nothing changes when nothing changes.
Each one of us must consider our deepest values, proceed to act from this standpoint alone, ignoring other voices of illusion, false hope, and distraction that might threaten to throw us off course.

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #620 on: Today at 05:59:59 AM »
A long, sad history of the USA in Afghanistan by someone who was there: Hoh at antiwar echoes the War poets of yore

"If you compare Washington, DC and its suburbs to how they psychically existed prior to 9/11, you will most assuredly note the physical impact the wars and the benefiting military industrial complex has had on the city and its suburbs. The Pentagon is not confined to that five sided building alongside Interstate 395, but rather stretches for miles along the Potomac River; from the Key Bridge in Rosslyn, south through Arlington, and extending past Ronald Reagan National Airport into Alexandria, in office building after office building, are tens and tens of thousands of men and women working for war. Likewise in the suburbs, particularly west along Interstate 66 or north along the Baltimore-Washington Highway, hundreds of buildings exist to serve the war machine. It’s not just the defense industry or the contracting firms, but also the banks, hotels, restaurants, apartment complexes, high rise condominiums and near-million dollar McMansions that have risen to serve and support the Pentagon and its wars."

"Within these buildings are hundreds of thousands of men and women, the majority not wearing a uniform but working for a contracting firm or defense corporation, who often make salaries in the high five or six figures. "

"the Washington, DC metro area is the wealthiest part of the country, and has been for a number of years, beginning after these unending wars and their mass profits began."

"casualties only decreased as a result of a decrease in US presence."

"the only land they held was the land that was covered by their machine guns and mortars, the insurgency controlled the land and the population. In many places it was relayed to me that the Taliban welcomed the presence of US troops, because with the presence of the US troops came millions of dollars in US military and USAID spending, spending that went right into the pockets of the Taliban"

"only about 4% of the Afghan national army and police forces were composed of southern Pashtuns – the people from whom the Taliban received the base of their support "

" a Taliban that is composed of locally organized and recruited insurgent forces who are fighting against foreign occupation and a corrupt, predatory and non-representative government."

" the people we are fighting are fighting us because we are occupying their countries and supporting violent, repressive and corrupt governments."

"The idea of military success and hard won gains has been nothing but craven and homicidal war propaganda trumpeted by US generals and the world’s largest public relations operation, and bleated obediently by politicians and, shamefully, journalists"

" Every Afghan election has been thoroughly fraudulent and riddled with vote rigging and ballot theft on a mass scale. "

"When I was in Afghanistan the biggest drug baron in southern Afghanistan was President Karzai’s brother Ahmed Wali Karzai "

"the claim that we are supporting the guys in the white hats in Afghanistan even more criminally ludicrous, the Afghan security forces, be it the army, the police, or the intelligence services consistently torture prisoners as a matter of routine practice in addition to being themselves involved in the drug trade."

" the widespread keeping of child sex slaves by Afghan military and police officers. Some US military personnel, so disgusted by the overt keeping of child sex slaves, took matters into their own hands, only to be relieved of command and forced out of the military."

"US protestations for a willingness and a desire for peace may well have been the grandest and bloodiest lie of them all."

" none of this was necessary. It has all has been a waste."

Read the whole thing:

https://original.antiwar.com/matthew_hoh/2019/02/17/time-for-peace-in-afghanistan-and-an-end-to-the-lies/

Get the fuck out. Now.

sidd