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GeoffBeacon

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Censorship by the good guys
« on: November 25, 2017, 04:06:30 PM »
In comments after the Guardian article How soon will the 'ice apocalypse' come? I repeated selections from AbruptSLR's post and Neven's comment.  This was soon replaced by

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Stupidly, I kept no copy but this is a rational reconstruction:

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On my favourite climate website the Arctic Sea Ice Forum, I asked for comments on this article. Here are some excerpts:

AbruptSLR

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Regarding Tamsin Edwards' criticism, I would say that it is irrelevant whether we know, as a proven fact, that human activity has caused the Amundsen Sea Embayment, ASE, marine glaciers to cross their tipping points, as climate models combined with field observation make an almost certain fact.  For example:

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1. Proistosescu & Huybers (2017) demonstrate convincingly that since 1750 anthropogenic activity has slowly been increasing the heat content of both the Tropical Pacific Ocean and the Southern Ocean; ...

2.  There is no serious doubt that human activity caused the ozone hole over Antarctica, which accelerated the westerly wind velocities into a 'sweet spot' for promoting the increased upwelling of relatively warm circumpolar deepwater,...

3.  It is my opinion that human activity has accelerated surface ice mass loss from Greenland (including due to both decreased albedo from air pollution and from increased surface temperatures), which most likely caused a 'cold spot' in the North Atlantic, which most likely has somewhat slowed the Meridional Overturning Circulation, MOC....

Neven

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Tamsin Edwards is an apologist for climate risk denial, like a good Brit phlegmatically adding a couple of big paving stones to the road to hell.

I would call the Guardian's response censorship. Is censorship getting worse or am I just waking up?

Most of my websites are banned in Morrisons' supermarkets, even my old site Auntie Jayne solves Your Poem (See “Oops” for Auntie Jane on Morrisons website). Most other websites are available even protest sites like Making Workers Pay or The Canary, a left wing site which The Sun has accused of spreading fake news. With most of my other sites blocked, this looks personal – but why?

I have some other examples of censorship from those I would normally think of as on-side. 

Has anyone else had these experiences?
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sidd

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2017, 09:35:16 PM »
"Most of my websites are banned in Morrisons' supermarkets ... "

Why is a supermarket in the internet provider business ? or did you mean someting else ?

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GeoffBeacon

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2017, 10:07:28 PM »
Sidd,

I go for a coffee in their cafe and use their wifi.

Geoff
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Sebastian Jones

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2017, 05:24:38 AM »
Nope. None of the websites I have bookmarked are banned any where I have logged on.

sidd

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2017, 07:02:38 AM »
I don't notice blockage on public (or private) wifi sites, since on the road i use encrypted tunnel thru controlled endpoints.

If that is not possible, there are many proxy servers (verify their trustworthiness first) and commercial VPNs, (verify trust first)

Protonmail has a good reputation so far. Or of course, Tor.

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Jim Hunt

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2017, 09:33:39 AM »
Good morning Geoff,

Stupidly, I kept no copy

I always use http://archive.is backed up by screenshots

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Has anyone else had these experiences?

Yes. Not only at all the usual suspects:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2013/09/mail-online-moderation-policy/

http://archive.is/kwiJz

But also at venues where you would assume interests were aligned.

I'll go and see if I can dig out an illustrative screenshot! Coffee first though.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 09:42:05 AM by Jim Hunt »
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« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2017, 10:05:20 AM »
By way of a worked example:

http://archive.is/7EvDa

I won't post a link to my recent comment at ex Prof. Judy's here. However if I suspect shenanigans I always cut and paste it from the address bar into a text file for posterity.
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GeoffBeacon

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2017, 10:09:42 PM »
Thanks Jim

I will look into archive.is

Here is the link I got back for my old site Greening The Green Belt

http://blocked.wip.morrisons.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.greeningthegreenbelt.org.uk%2findex%2ehtm&referer=&reason=&reasoncode=&timebound=&action=deny&kind=&rule=&cat=&user=&zsq=

And for The Arctic Sea Ice Forum:

http://blocked.wip.morrisons.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fforum.arctic-sea-ice.net%2findex%2ephp%2ftopic%2c2206%2emsg134725%2ftopicseen%2ehtml&referer=&reason=&reasoncode=&timebound=&action=deny&kind=&rule=&cat=&user=&zsq=#msg134725

I can't really get a coherent explanation.  Morrisons' customer wifi lets through more high profile and radical sites than mine. e.g. The Canary

P.S. The "Oops" link I posted earlier probably only works at Morrisons. I had thought otherwise but I now think I was getting a page from my browser's cache.

P.P.S. But I regard the Guardian's response as censorship and I am writing up another couple of examples.

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Jim Hunt

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2017, 10:35:40 PM »
Thanks Jim

I will look into archive.is

NP Geoff. I've never seen the WiFi problem, but then I hardly ever use public WiFi and to the best of my recollection I've never been inside a Morrisons.

Getting back to the "friendly fire" issue, (and following a very long coffee break!) I just took this screenshot of a comment of mine on an "Arctic" thread at the Scribbler's:
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magnamentis

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2017, 11:14:04 PM »
Thanks Jim

I will look into archive.is

Here is the link I got back for my old site Greening The Green Belt

http://blocked.wip.morrisons.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.greeningthegreenbelt.org.uk%2findex%2ehtm&referer=&reason=&reasoncode=&timebound=&action=deny&kind=&rule=&cat=&user=&zsq=

And for The Arctic Sea Ice Forum:

http://blocked.wip.morrisons.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fforum.arctic-sea-ice.net%2findex%2ephp%2ftopic%2c2206%2emsg134725%2ftopicseen%2ehtml&referer=&reason=&reasoncode=&timebound=&action=deny&kind=&rule=&cat=&user=&zsq=#msg134725

I can't really get a coherent explanation.  Morrisons' customer wifi lets through more high profile and radical sites than mine. e.g. The Canary

P.S. The "Oops" link I posted earlier probably only works at Morrisons. I had thought otherwise but I now think I was getting a page from my browser's cache.

P.P.S. But I regard the Guardian's response as censorship and I am writing up another couple of examples.

check the servers IP / IP-Block and verify whether that block is on a black list which most probably is the case. it happens very rarely that single websites are blocked and if it happens it's most often during criminal investigations based on a court order and in such a case you'd certainly have some evidence that something like that is going on.

rarely means not never so i can't tell for sure but chances are high that either you use a server with black-listed IPs and/or perhaps a static IP that is blocked on individually but as mentioned there remains a chance that your sites got blocked while the fact that you have several sites and all are blocked and then your ISP does not contact you is speaking againt that too.
 

GeoffBeacon

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2017, 02:57:50 AM »
magnamentis

Did you notice that the ASIF was banned too? But that might be due to the non-existent security certificate.

However, I also have dontlooknow.org, which is a wordpress.com site and also banned.

Anyway, I must do some more checking, using a browser with an empty cache.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 03:10:44 AM by GeoffBeacon »
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wili

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2017, 11:45:55 AM »
Jim, the 'your comment is awaiting moderation' message always comes up at Scribblers when there is more than one link in a comment, for some reason. It's annoying the first few times, but once your realize it, you just respond to your own message with any added links, but always only one per post.

Occasionally there are other problems there, and yes, he will occasionally ban or put people on a tighter leash for a while. But generally it's a pretty open site.

On the Guardian thing, yeah, I think sites don't take well to people posting things that were posted elsewhere. I can imagine various reasons why they might want to do this, but it would just be speculations on my part.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Jim Hunt

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2017, 12:41:19 PM »
Jim, the 'your comment is awaiting moderation' message always comes up at Scribblers when there is more than one link in a comment, for some reason.

In that example there's one image and one link. Note that my comment has been "in moderation" for 2 years

Is Robert too busy to check his moderation queue and ensure that helpful images of the Beaufort Sea appear underneath one of his articles about the Arctic?
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GeoffBeacon

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2017, 03:31:41 PM »
One of the other examples of what I think of as censorship is the removal of a Q&A session from a talk by Lord Turner at the Overseas Development Institute in 2009. He was then chair of the Committee on Climate Change.

My question was (probably) about the difference between production and consumption greenhouse gas emissions.  I downloaded a recording which shows the Q&A wiped. Details here.

Apart from my conspiracy theory, the point is that official UK sources keep emphasising how good we are in cutting our production emissions without recognising that consumption emissions (our carbon footprints) still remain bad.
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wili

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Re: Censorship by the good guys
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2017, 09:49:32 PM »
Yeah, sometimes things get away from him. I've had a number of posts vanish, but I have no reason to think that this was censorship. In my experience, when he does remove something (beside just everyday obvious trolling), he talks about it and explains it. But I guess more could be happening 'invisibly.'

Do you still have trouble posting there?
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."