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Author Topic: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism  (Read 49217 times)

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #850 on: March 31, 2019, 10:58:29 PM »
Taibbi at rollingstone: media still deluded

"The 2016 campaign season brought to the surface awesome levels of political discontent. After the election, instead of wondering where that anger came from, most of the press quickly pivoted to a new tale about a Russian plot to attack our Democracy."

"This narrative contradicted everything I’d seen traveling across America in my two years of covering the campaign. The overwhelming theme of that race, long before anyone even thought about Russia, was voter rage at the entire political system."

" ... the gift the end of Russiagate might give Trump by allowing him to spend 2020 peeing from a great height on the national press corps."

" Trump was gunning for votes in both parties. The core story he told on the stump was one of system-wide corruption, in which there was little difference between Republicans and Democrats."

"his general pitch, which claimed most Americans were struggling because both parties were feeding from the same campaign-finance teat, pimping themselves out to huge job-exporting corporate donors. Which, let’s face it, is more than a little true. "

"Perhaps just by luck, Trump was tuned in to the fact that the triumvirate of ruling political powers in America – the two parties, the big donors and the press – were so unpopular with large parts of the population that he could win in the long haul by attracting their ire, even if he was losing battles on the way."

"The subtext of Halperin’s pieces was that the Gang of 500 decided elections ... It’s hard to understand how it never occurred to Halperin or anyone else that people might be grossed out by the concept of 500 self-appointed guardians of democracy deciding the presidency for 300 million people."

"Trump would already be president-elect before he was taken seriously as an electoral phenomenon. "

"Russiagate became a convenient replacement explanation absolving an incompetent political establishment for its complicity in what happened in 2016, and not just the failure to see it coming. Because of the immediate arrival of the collusion theory, neither Wolf Blitzer nor any politician ever had to look into the camera and say, “I guess people hated us so much they were even willing to vote for Donald Trump.” "

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/taibbi-trump-russia-mueller-investigation-815060/

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Lurk

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #851 on: April 01, 2019, 04:08:48 AM »
Quote
voter rage at the entire political system

one of system-wide corruption

the triumvirate of ruling political powers in America – the two parties, the big donors and the press

It goes far deeper than that. It's more than merely a sick political system, it's a sick culture driven by millions of psychologically sick, narcissistic immoral peoples and even more millions of deluded cowards who refuse to do anything about it except prattle on social media about "the Other" while pretending they are "exceptional" cases above all criticism. 

It's a highly contagious virus that has infected the entire world via the media and social media with lies, violence, abuse, stupidity, rank incompetence, and the resulting wars and poverty everywhere.

It's the United States of Hypocrites

The home of Scientology
The home of Google, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube & Amazon
The home of the NSA, UBER & AirBnB
The home of the biggest Arms dealers on the planet bar none
The home of Gitmo and remote control Drones with Missiles
The home of Climate Science Deniers par Excellence
The home of +37,000 gun deaths per year
The home of 2.2 million prisoners in jails
The home of Citizens United
The home of slavery and institutionalised racism
The home of Fracking
The home of Nuclear weapons used against Civilians
The home of anger, violence, and vile hate for each other and the world at large
The home of Backpage.com
The home of Fake News
and it doesn't stop there

Trump, the Clintons, the Media and the corrupt elections is nothing to what truly ills America and it's peoples.
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

Lurk

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #852 on: April 01, 2019, 05:08:50 AM »
(in case you missed it)
Americans are inherently a little crazy. Americans have always been magical thinkers and passionate believers in the untrue But now the crazy is being enabled by politicians in the White House and by the internet. How exactly did it get so bad?

“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

Lurk

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #853 on: April 01, 2019, 05:38:02 AM »
“What if everything you know is fake?”

That’s the subtitle of my new book, “The Media Matrix,” which is an attack on what the president calls Fake News, but more importantly a recurring question about whether any of us is smart enough to penetrate the disinformation campaign being waged 24/7 by not just the mainstream media, but also by the “information technology” that has become the very environment in which we live. That includes the internet, social media, Wikipedia, Google, cable news, late-night comedy, talking heads, Hollyweird and, yes, the morning newspaper.

The ability to discern what we used to quaintly call “truth” from out of the information matrix that surrounds us is undoubtedly the primary survival characteristic of the next generation. With so many competing and contradictory sources of information — and an education system that devalues logic and critical thinking in favor of political correctness — only the most persistent and skeptical news consumers can be confident that they have an understanding that approximates “truth.”

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/04/01/what_if_everything_you_know_is_fake_139906.html
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #854 on: April 02, 2019, 06:15:34 AM »
Taibbi in two good interviews, Katie Halper with Aaron Mate and a longer conversation with michael tracey.

Taibbi: And to me it seemed the only way we could possibly lose with the public in a contest with someone like Trump is if we completely abdicated the standards of the profession and did what he accused us of doing, which would be politicizing our jobs and using trumped-up evidence to try to make him look bad.

Mate:those who profited off of the Russiagate narrative, like the failed neoliberal, Democratic elites, who needed an excuse to cover for the fact that they lost to Donald Trump; FBI intelligence officials who opened up this investigation on very specious grounds and who suspected Trump, in part, because he was saying nice things about Vladimir Putin.

Taibbi: The overwhelming voter sentiment everywhere had to do with the rejection of the international global consensus. You saw votes like Brexit, a complete repudiation of a number of things. But Russiagate as a political solution, as a response to that electoral phenomenon, has been extraordinarily effective. Because what it’s done is it’s completely changed the attitude of a huge portion of the population, which now sees the international security services, the global consensus, as the only saviors who are going to rescue them from the evil Trump. And therefore, we have to pursue this case and celebrate authoritarianism and celebrate the FBI and CIA and their heroism, and the European Union and NATO. This story has had some benefit from a propaganda perspective as well.

Mate:  fundamentally undermines the idea of democratic government, where it’s the elected president, whether you like that person or not, who’s supposed to make the decision, not unelected intelligence bureaucrats.

Taibbi: All propaganda works on multiple levels, but there has to be an emotional component in order for it to really sell. You have to be able to turn people’s minds off when it comes to this stuff. So the combination at work here was the emotional devastation of liberal audiences. People were crushed when Trump was elected. People likened it to 9/11 or losing a family member.

Mate: These people have invested so much into it that they’re forced to double down, and they’re already doing it. They can’t claim to be taken seriously as journalists. They’re basically, at this point, propagandists on this issue.

https://www.alternet.org/2019/03/journalists-matt-taibbi-and-aaron-mate-explain-how-the-russiagate-narrative-helped-trump/

The Tracey interview is also good, they bring up two questions that i have seen few others ask:

1) The genesis of the investigation is still unknown. Taibbi and Matre are uncertain, but they point out that the UK, through robert hannigan to josh brennan was a very early player.

2) Why were the media so submissive to the russiagate propaganda ? Taibbi says that he knows people in the business who were just cowed by the massive hate directed towards Taibbi, Greenwald, Mate, Tracey and the few who questioned. My feeling is that if you cant take the heat, you need to get outta the kitchen. If they can't do their job, find another line of business.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/matt-taibbi-on-25796637

sidd

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #855 on: April 02, 2019, 09:13:20 AM »
van Buren at the american conservative looks at genesis of russiagate.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-primordial-ooze-of-the-collusion-conspiracy/

I'm not so sure. I don't think the FBI was running Halper, it was another actor.  I think the UK connection was seminal. And it entirely ignores Mifsud, whose allegiances remain murky. But read the whole thing.

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Klondike Kat

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #856 on: April 02, 2019, 02:30:25 PM »
“What if everything you know is fake?”

That’s the subtitle of my new book, “The Media Matrix,” which is an attack on what the president calls Fake News, but more importantly a recurring question about whether any of us is smart enough to penetrate the disinformation campaign being waged 24/7 by not just the mainstream media, but also by the “information technology” that has become the very environment in which we live. That includes the internet, social media, Wikipedia, Google, cable news, late-night comedy, talking heads, Hollyweird and, yes, the morning newspaper.

The ability to discern what we used to quaintly call “truth” from out of the information matrix that surrounds us is undoubtedly the primary survival characteristic of the next generation. With so many competing and contradictory sources of information — and an education system that devalues logic and critical thinking in favor of political correctness — only the most persistent and skeptical news consumers can be confident that they have an understanding that approximates “truth.”

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/04/01/what_if_everything_you_know_is_fake_139906.html

Funny.  I just read that article, before I saw your post.  Makes you think.

wili

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #857 on: April 02, 2019, 02:38:50 PM »
KK, think what?

Any article that talks about fake journalism that doesn't start with the utterly consistent falsehoods coming out of Faux News is simply right wing propaganda. And lo and behold, a quick search reveals that the author is...surprise surprise...a right wing propagandist!

It isn't hard most of the time to figure this shit out. I guess mostly people don't because they're too lazy, perhaps? Or just don't care?
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

wili

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #858 on: April 02, 2019, 02:57:14 PM »
sidd, what's worth reading about it? It's just another tired rehashing of the standard, rightwing conspiracy theories.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #859 on: April 02, 2019, 07:33:02 PM »
Re: sidd, what's worth reading about it?

To which article does the 'it' refer ?

sidd
 

wili

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #860 on: April 02, 2019, 08:58:01 PM »
Sidd, the one you most recently posted, from "The American Conservative"
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #861 on: April 02, 2019, 09:07:18 PM »
I take it you mean this one :

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-primordial-ooze-of-the-collusion-conspiracy/

(i posted another van Buren article in another thread)

I think that van Buren gets some things right. He points out that Steele's success was not primarily due to injection of the dossier into the media, but rather dissemination within the US intelligence community:

"Steele succeeded mightily, however, in pushing his information deep into the FBI via three simultaneous channels, including the State Department, and via Senator John McCain, who was pitched by a former British ambassador retired to work now for Christopher Steele’s own firm."

"the most productive channel into the FBI was Department of Justice official Bruce Ohr."

But as i said, i disagree with him on Halper, and i think he pays too little attention to the conduits between  Steele, Dearlove, Hannigan and Brennan. And he entirely leaves out the question of Mifsud.

I leave it to the reader to draw their own conclusions.

sidd

wili

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #862 on: April 02, 2019, 09:16:52 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #863 on: April 03, 2019, 09:07:03 AM »
Hopkins does a victory dance at consentfactory: pretty brutal, but who can blame him

"the entire Mueller investigation now appears to have been another wild goose chase (like the “search” for those non-existent WMDs that we invaded and destabilized the Middle East and murdered hundreds of thousands of people ... ) ... there will be no perp walks for any of the Trumps. No treason tribunals. No televised hangings. No detachment of Secret Service agents marching Hillary into the White House."

" ... let’s try to look on the bright side, shall we? Disgraceful as this Russiagate fiasco has been, at least it was all just an honest mistake, and not any kind of plot, or conspiracy, or anything as disturbing as that. It’s not like the majority of the corporate media perpetrated a massive, coordinated, intelligence agency-initiated psyop on the Western public for two and half years. No, they just “got it wrong,” again … like they did with those Iraqi WMDs."

"The corporate media, after all, are comprised of dedicated, professional journalists, who maintain the highest ethical standards ... Plus, there is no “deep state.” Not really. ... that would be scary, if that had happened!"

"Look, I don’t want to beat this to death. "

(Editorial comment: That was gratuitous, Mr. Hopkins. Giggle.)

"No, it’s time to, you know, let bygones be bygones ... Talking about all that is just a distraction ... it only helps Donald Trump ... "

" ... this is not the time to demand a full accounting ... they made a few mistakes, and got a little carried away, but they’re only human ...  sure they’re all very, very sorry, and will never, ever, do it again."

https://consentfactory.org/2019/04/02/a-russiagate-requiem/

sidd

Susan Anderson

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #864 on: April 04, 2019, 08:18:46 PM »
Sorry to break in on the lovefest about how righteous Trump and his supporters are on his various crimes, which is premature, since the letter from Barr is all there is, and it's clear he was fulfilling the promises that got him the job of Attorney General. You guys need to check your bias; you sound like climate fake skeptics: unskeptical about anything that agrees with you. I probably shouldn't bother, since y'all have closed your minds.

Back to topic:
---
Don't know if these links will cross the pond, but Chris Hayes did a wonderful town hall with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez at Einstein Hospital auditorium in the Bronx (NYC, AOC's home area) about the Green New Deal. Hayes started out as a climate activist in 2004 and has pushed as much as he can ever since. Some of them overlap.

Terrific quote from AOC when questioned about the attacks from Republicans:
Quote
"I didn't expect them to make total fools of themselves," Rep. Ocasio-Cortez told @MSNBC's Chris Hayes. "I expected a little more nuance, and I expected a little more 'concern trolling.'
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1111784412805545984

Extra (18+ minutes)


Parts





Full:
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 08:32:23 PM by Susan Anderson »

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #865 on: April 05, 2019, 12:20:03 AM »
Bacharach at the new republic looks, not unsympathetically, at the evolution of MSNBC:

On Maddow: " She gestures widely. She shrugs. She is arch and broadly ironic. She is very certain that she is right ... far more appealing than I’d been prepared to find her ... Maddow is sincere without being overly earnest. She thinks that she is funnier than she is, but we all have friends who think they are funnier than they are. She is obviously smart, which makes the frequent weirdness and obscurantism of her show seem like a deliberate choice, like a serious author who has, for fun, decided to dabble in the absurd. "

"But Maddow—and much of her network these days—is frequently just as bonkers. "

He turns to MSNBC:

"By 2015, its popularity sometimes dipped below not just Fox News and CNN, but also CNN’s airport-lounge spin-off, HLN. "

"By late 2018, MSNBC could, on certain weeks, claim to be the number one news network on cable. "

"MSNBC has become what, just a few years ago, critics thought impossible: the liberal, Democratic cable channel. It is the touchstone network for the Resistance movement on social media, which is itself tightly wound around allegations of Russian plots and “collusion,” and its stars look likely to become kingmakers in the coming Democratic primaries."

" the effect of spending a whole evening with MSNBC for the first time is not unlike wandering into a scripted prestige television series in the middle of its third season. The careful place setting occurred long before you started watching, and now the narrative is barreling ahead."

"There is Trump himself, looming offstage, the oddly absent centerpiece of the whole production, like Julius Caesar in the later acts of Shakespeare’s play. There is Mueller, something between an oracle and a demiurge, also physically absent, and there was Mueller’s report, a promised deus ex machina hanging in the fly space above. "

"There are set-piece locations ... a complex establishing mythology, a series of actual acts and hypothetical acts and possibly mythological acts that, in total, build the texture of a sprawling world. There are terms of art and law that everyone seems to understand; they take the place, in this universe, of a fantasy show’s invented ancient language ... the strange simultaneity common to prestige TV: It is at once vast and circumscribed. A wider world intrudes, but the same central heroes and villains show up, week after week. "

"MSNBC has been through several iterations since its founding in 1996 ... From the late 1990s through the mid-2000s, the network also served as a weird clearinghouse for some of the great ghouls of conservative agit-prop, an early home-away-from-home for the likes of Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, and Tucker Carlson ... recall the omnipresence of Pat Buchanan ... a network struggling and failing to capture the political zeitgeist at the end of the millennium"

"But as the Bush administration wore on, MSNBC began its turn toward liberalism ... "

"Suddenly, the Republicans were the wild reformists, coming with axes and dynamite for all the edifices of society and government that America had erected over the last 100 years, while the Democratic Party was the conservative party, which is to say: protective toward institutions, deferential toward established power, defensive around precedent, and deeply concerned that anything other than narrow tinkering at the margins represented a dangerous radicalism."

"a central problem with contemporary mainstream liberalism: the idea that the trouble is not so much institutions themselves as the people who run them. The result is an unfortunate tendency to rehabilitate dubious people and organizations the moment they line up against the right villains. How else to explain the sudden liberal affection for the FBI, the office of the special counsel, the “intelligence community”? "

"the network so rarely finds time to pan out from its narrow focus on the baroque divagations of the investigations of Donald Trump"

"one of the fundamental features of a conspiracy narrative is that it cannot end"

"the belief that there may yet be a gotcha moment, a crack in the case that forces a reckoning, a legal procedure through which normalcy may be restored, is well-nigh irresistible."

" it is possible to make MSNBC your principal source of news and information and, as a consequence, to escape knowing much of anything about what is going on in the world ... an entire primetime lineup without mention of Brexit, of the gilets jaunes, of any Eurasian politics beyond the bogeyman Putin and some snarking at Trump’s vague China tariffs. Venezuela makes an occasional appearance, mostly as it relates to our own domestic politics ...  Brazil ...  barely appears ... a “border crisis” but little sense of what is on the other side of that border ...  “Syria,” but little actual reporting from the Middle East. North Korea bubbles up sporadically, ... and even then exists mostly as a platform to joke about Trump’s inability to close a deal. The Indian subcontinent hardly exists. Africa hardly exists ... the environment and climate change, as stories in and of themselves, hardly exist."

"MSNBC promises its audience that if we dig deep enough, we’ll get to the bottom of this thing, but what good is digging a hole in preparation for a flood?  "

Read the whole thing:

https://newrepublic.com/article/153435/msnbcs-wild-ride

sidd

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #866 on: April 06, 2019, 06:10:21 AM »
Tracey at the spectator(US version) tears into some of those who were savaging him: Maddow wasn't the only one

"As contemptible as Rachel undoubtedly is, dwelling on her absolves the rest of the industry from acknowledging what really happened: a structural calamity of epic proportions, implicating almost all of them, which has utterly destroyed the reputation of the media writ large."

After Maddow and Olbermann, he calls out "leading Democrats ranging from Hillary Clinton campaign communications director Jennifer Palmieri to Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe; as well as Michael Moore, Lawrence Lessig, Peter Beinart, DeRay McKesson, Paul Krugman, and Neera Tanden"  who " had been melodramatically whinging for months about how appalled they were by Trump’s alleged propensity to violate ‘norms,’ but the next minute they turned around and demanded that all norms governing the centuries-old Electoral College process be thrown out the window"

Benjamin Wittes of "BOOM!" fame and Chris Hayes come in for special mention. He proceeds to Wheeler, whom i stopped reading for the same reason that draws his ire, that she burned a source, dropped a dime on someone who confided in her.

"Last week, Wheeler finally admitted her suspicion that the FBI may have just decided she is ‘crazy.’  "

This is the same FBI that under Mueller and to this day continue to entrap hapless, unstable young men into terrorist plots and imprison them for decades on the flimsiest of evidence based on "confidential informants." If toy haven't seen the movie "(T)ERROR" watch it now. It is told from the viewpoint of the informant _and_ the guy he was entrapping.

And this is the FBI who couldn't make Wheeler's charges stick. So sad.

Read the whole thing. The people he's screaming at said much worse about him.

https://spectator.us/boom-autopsy-media-mueller/

sidd


sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #867 on: April 08, 2019, 08:29:17 PM »
Interview with Lagoze at the intercept: costs of pointless war

" It was heavily occupied by the Taliban. We had to clear a route there to fix the dam. The dam is still broken. It’s sort of a metaphor for the whole war, I guess."

"A lot of [the Marines in the film] are in jail. Some of them are doing okay, and some of them are not. And some of them are dead. Some of them killed themselves."

"It’s hard to imagine what fighting a war would look like if there wasn’t toxic masculinity involved in the training process. "

"you think of all the documentaries that have come out about Afghanistan or Iraq, they tend to show a lot of dead Iraqis, dead Taliban, dead Afghan women, children. It’s like there’s no problem to show that, but then when there’s a dead U.S. soldier, that’s off limits. "

"The guy chasing the kids with the pistol, he has a wife and kids, so I wanted to be like, “Are you going to want them to see this?” And he was like, “Yeah, man.” A lot of them are at a point where they want to be judged to a certain degree. Stop saying, “Thank you for your service.” It doesn’t make sense. It’s totally absurd."

"While we were there, we created an almost uninhabitable environment for the Afghan civilians. "

"I want there to be some accountability. I don’t want people just to look at the soldiers and Marines as hapless victims that were sent out there, and it was just the big politicians that are responsible. No. I think the soldiers are responsible, the politicians are responsible, but also the American people are complicit. Our tax money funded the war. It’s not just the soldiers and the politicians. It’s the everyday citizens. We’re all responsible because we didn’t really give a shit. We didn’t notice it. We didn’t pay attention."

https://theintercept.com/2019/04/07/combat-obscura-afghanistan-war-documentary/

I will have to watch that movie.

sidd

Lurk

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #868 on: April 09, 2019, 03:33:36 AM »
Quote
It’s the everyday citizens. We’re all responsible because we didn’t really give a shit. We didn’t notice it. We didn’t pay attention.

It's not rocket science. It's not even climate science. It's obvious. Staring everyone in the face 24/7.
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #869 on: April 09, 2019, 07:15:21 AM »
America's Finest News Source: ISIS rehabilitated

"ISIS leaders announced Monday that they had added a few violent white supremacists to the group in a bid to get the U.S. to rescind its designation of ISIS as terrorists."

"it turns out they have many more guns than we do. "

"At press time, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced that ISIS was no longer officially considered a terrorist organization based on their members’ newfound strong support for President Trump. "

https://www.theonion.com/isis-adds-few-violent-white-supremacists-in-bid-to-get-1833890999

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #871 on: April 12, 2019, 01:18:48 AM »
Taibbi on Assange arrest: "a legal argument against someone who releases embarrassing secrets."

"Assange lawyer Barry Pollock said the allegations “boil down to encouraging a source to provide him information and taking efforts to protect the identify of that source.” "

" placing criminal penalties on a prosecutor’s interpretation of such interactions will likely put a scare into anyone involved with national security reporting"

" in one of the odder unreported details of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation, he never interviewed or attempted to interview Assange ... It will therefore be interesting to see if Assange is finally asked about Russiagate"

"it would be hard to find a more extreme example of how deep the bipartisan consensus runs on expanding the policing of leaks."

"Donald Trump takes the last step of journey begun by Barack Obama."

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/assange-arrest-charges-taibbi-821107/

sidd


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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #872 on: April 12, 2019, 01:34:32 AM »
wsws on Assange blackmail attempt, surveillance:

"WikiLeaks detailed a vast and illegal surveillance operation against its founder, Julian Assange, inside Ecuador’s British embassy ...including medical consultations and private legal meetings "

"The individuals, who allegedly include a Spanish national previously implicated in extortion, demanded that WikiLeaks provide three million euros for hundreds of thousands of documents, audio recordings, videos and photos taken in the embassy."

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/04/11/assa-a11.html

Consortiumnews: "offers of €9 million for the material. "

"A Spanish judge is investigating an alleged extortion scheme in which suspects in Madrid offered video and audio surveillance to the editor of WikiLeaks in exchange for €3 million"

https://consortiumnews.com/2019/04/10/spanish-police-probe-extortion-scheme-involving-surveillance-on-assange/

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #873 on: April 12, 2019, 04:45:35 AM »
On Assange et al. There's no point arguing the "facts". People do not care and do not want to know.

This is my take. The best analogy is that right now, especially in the USA and several other satellite states, it's 1936 in Germany or Japan. The battle is lost, any the attempt to fix it is now a lost cause.

Of course this was true even if Assange hadn't been arrested last night. For all the ingredients were already there anyway. The reaction to his Arrest is merely another example of where the West and her hangers on are now at. 

Does anyone really believe that Corbyn's position or Gabbard's position will carry the day, anywhere? They won't. Anyone who believes the US Green New Deal will get anywhere, even with a Democrat President and a Democrat controlled Congress is a right gullible fool to be sure!

Or that the Media anywhere is going to keep you well informed and out corruption by Governments ongoing. Give it a break. The Media is OWNED by those who get the Governments elected in the first place. Doh! :)

So now what? Well my recommendation to Wikileaks is to lock the website to enable the existing data there to be hosted via Iceland for as long as possible.

Then shut their enterprise down completely. Disperse any remaining funds to Julian Assange's legal defence/support, and simply walk away people!

Walk away. Save yourselves and disappear.

Any decent Journalist left in the global media system today should also quit their day jobs and walk away. Go write books instead for a while. Save yourselves and disappear too.

One day the Phoenix will rise again ..... but it won't be for a while. So nurture and protect yourselves and let the Masses enjoy the fruits of their Ignorance, Arrogance, and Stupidity.
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

Lurk

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #874 on: April 12, 2019, 09:21:53 AM »
Another example of the useless incompetent American media, this time By David Harsanyi at the Federalist.

 Is Wikileaks Founder Julian Assange A Foreign Spy Or A News Publisher? Probably Both.
While I’m highly sympathetic to the principled arguments being made in defense of Assange, they’re not applicable in this case.
https://thefederalist.com/2019/04/11/is-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-a-foreign-spy-or-a-news-publisher/

OK so the following is a Lie .. intentional or not it is a lie and false.

Quote
The Australian is charged with a computer hacking conspiracy, because he tried to assist then-Bradley Manning, a former U.S. Army intelligence analyst, with cracking codes that allowed the two to break into classified files.

According to the indictment (and there’s a chance of additional charges), Assange actively attempted to participate in espionage. He didn’t merely get his hands on information or solicit it. He is accused of conspiring to assist Manning in breaking into U.S. government files and cracking codes.

This effort led to the biggest leak in military history, resulting in thousands of classified logs covering the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq being dumped and shared with our enemies.

1) because he (ALLEGEDLY as yet UNPROVEN) tried to assist then-Bradley Manning,

2) with cracking codes that allowed the two to break into classified files.
- NO codes (passwords) were cracked
- the "two" did not break into classified files - only Manning did that unauthorised not Assange

3) -  Assange (ALLEGEDLY as yet UNPROVEN) actively attempted to participate in espionage.
- False. He is NOT charged with Espionage. It's a basic "criminal charge"...
- Obviously not proven, as well as not included in the Indictment either

4) He is accused of conspiring to assist Manning in breaking into U.S. government files and cracking codes.
- It is ALLEGED as yet UNproven
- the US GOVT FBI/DOJ/CIA never lie right? No, they are all proven Liars ad nauseam
- but He did not assist Manning to break into anything
- but He did not crack any codes

5) This effort led to ... classified logs covering the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq
- False
- Manning had already sent Wikileaks those War Logs ... ha ha ha
- Nothing Assange is alleged to have done in the Indictment LED TO anything further being obtained by Manning
- NOTHING~!

IIRC
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

Lurk

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #875 on: April 12, 2019, 09:50:15 AM »
Good Journalism

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange will be punished for embarrassing the DC establishment
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/04/11/wikileaks-julian-assange-nsa-extradition-hacking-chelsea-manning-nobel-column/3434034002/

The US Justice System and the US Government and Congress are corrupt to the core. The UK won't save him, Australia won't save him, the media won't save him, and the complicit American people cannot save him. 
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

Lurk

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #876 on: April 12, 2019, 01:20:07 PM »
Another example of the useless incompetent American media, this time By David Harsanyi at the Federalist.

 Is Wikileaks Founder Julian Assange A Foreign Spy Or A News Publisher? Probably Both.

PS Assange has been charged with "conspiring to attempt" ... i think it says.

But if there is no crime committed, then there cannot be a conspiracy. Might be a fine point, but a real legal one that may play out. I;m not sure obviously.
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #877 on: April 12, 2019, 02:58:32 PM »
Another example of the useless incompetent American media, this time By David Harsanyi at the Federalist.

 Is Wikileaks Founder Julian Assange A Foreign Spy Or A News Publisher? Probably Both.

PS Assange has been charged with "conspiring to attempt" ... i think it says.

But if there is no crime committed, then there cannot be a conspiracy. Might be a fine point, but a real legal one that may play out. I;m not sure obviously.

No, the planned crime does not need to happen.  All that's needed for a conspiracy conviction is for two or more to agree to commit a crime, and take some concrete actions towards that end.

This framework is used to ensnare wannabe terrorists in sting operations.  No actual bomb goes off, the target of the sting talks with undercover agents about doing something violent, is manipulated into buying fake explosives, or a gun, or renting a van.  Then the cuffs go on.   Convictions for conspiracy are the rule here, not the exception.

Edit:  and the criminal penalties are the same as if the crime actually happened.  A bit draconian in my view.  A couple of angry guys in a bar expressing anger about whatever need only drunkenly purchase some tool online right there to be liable.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2019, 03:03:35 PM by SteveMDFP »

Lurk

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #878 on: April 12, 2019, 03:53:31 PM »
No, the planned crime does not need to happen. 

ah yes, I'm letting myself get muddled up with "obstruction of justice" - seems like trump's got inside my head LOL

sorry about that, doh! You're right of course.
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #879 on: April 12, 2019, 04:54:33 PM »
Surprisingly, a good example from Fox News ... it's  good summary, sure it's biased, there's the usual American hype and the as yet unproven assertions, but this a fair rendition of the real state of play, imho, and it is what "the other side" (?) are hearing most about. Take it away Hannity:



 
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #880 on: April 12, 2019, 10:28:47 PM »
Peres interviews Ellsberg at realnewsnetwork on Assange arrest: a very serious assault on the First Amendment

" if he succeeds in putting Julian Assange in prison, where I think he’ll be for life"

"no journalist is safe. The freedom of the press is not safe. It’s over. And I think our republic is in its last days"

"they’re able to bring the kind of pressure on Ecuador that caused essentially a lawless action here which threatens everyone in asylum."

"The British have had a long history here of servility, basically, with respect to their ally the United States"

" In my day, his case would have been almost sure to be upheld by this–that is, the case dismissed by the Supreme Court on grounds of violating the First Amendment. But that was a different Supreme Court, 40 years ago."

" I think he’ll be in one room, possibly in solitary confinement, on the excuse that he has further secrets that he might reveal; just as Ed Snowden would face that, I think, possibly for the rest of his life. "

" wouldn’t be at all surprised if he is further indicted under the Espionage Act, as I was"

https://therealnews.com/stories/daniel-ellsberg-on-assange-arrest-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-press-freedom

Ellsberg has been round for a while, seen a lot. And he sounds scared.

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #881 on: April 13, 2019, 06:26:04 AM »
Quote
DANIEL ELLSBERG:
I see on the indictment, which I’ve just read, that one of the charges is that he encouraged Chelsea Manning then Bradley Manning to give him documents, more documents, after she had already given him hundreds of thousands of files.

Well, if that’s a crime, then journalism is a crime, because just on countless occasions I have been harassed by journalists for documents, or for more documents than I had yet given them. So they–none of them have been put on trial up till now, but in this case, if that’s all it takes, then no journalist is safe. The freedom of the press is not safe. It’s over.

And I think our republic is in its last days, because unauthorized disclosures of this kind are the lifeblood of a republic.

Quote
Chelsea Manning is currently sitting in prison, and after 28 days in solitary confinement for not cooperating and answering the questions related to the Julian Assange case, and the grand jury investigation that is underway (right now, today)

https://therealnews.com/stories/daniel-ellsberg-on-assange-arrest-the-beginning-of-the-end-for-press-freedom
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #882 on: April 13, 2019, 11:56:47 PM »
America's Finest News Source: Media Condemns Assange for Reckless Exposure

"We denounce Julian Assange in the strongest possible terms for his negligence in publicly demonstrating the kinds of work journalists could actually be doing  "

"Assange was focused on exposing documented evidence of U.S. war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan without so much as a thought for the journalists who faithfully parroted the U.S. military’s talking points"

"does he realize how that makes us look? "

"The fact that the American public now knows what we’re actually doing day to day is incredibly harmful"

Read the whole thing:

https://www.theonion.com/media-condemns-julian-assange-for-reckless-exposure-of-1834010623

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #883 on: April 15, 2019, 07:57:40 AM »
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #884 on: April 15, 2019, 03:11:40 PM »
The message I have found here at ASIB is in this case at least almost reaching the MSM.
(I say almost only because the the Guardian is not read by fox viewers)

Quote
Our system – characterised by perpetual economic growth on a planet that is not growing – will inevitably implode. The only question is whether the transformation is planned or unplanned. Our task is to ensure it is planned, and fast. We need to conceive and build a new system based on the principle that every generation, everywhere has an equal right to enjoy natural wealth.

This is less daunting than we might imagine. As Erica Chenoweth’s historical research reveals, for a peaceful mass movement to succeed, a maximum of 3.5% of the population needs to mobilise.

by George Monbiot

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/15/rebellion-prevent-ecological-apocalypse-civil-disobedience?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

If the majority of the media were to speak the truth like this, how much difference would it make would it make, would that be enough and if so how much culpability do the media have?



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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #885 on: April 15, 2019, 11:37:49 PM »
If the majority of the media were to speak the truth like this, how much difference would it make would it make, would that be enough and if so how much culpability do the media have?

We must not talk about this, because Trump.

I watched a film this evening, maybe I shouldn't have. It's called Kill the Messenger and is based on the story of Gary Webb, an investigative journalist who broke the story that the CIA facilitated cocaine imports into the USA, while the dealers in exchange supported the Contras in Nicaragua, the idea being that this was the only way to make sure The Russians (there they are again) couldn't spread communism around Central America, after US Congress had restricted direct support.

This is Gary Webb, who allegedly shot himself in the head twice, seven years after writing the story that more or less ended his career:



How much damage Cold War thinking/conditioning has done around the world... And much progress hasn't been made since, as we have just seen with the Russiagate-scandal.
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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #886 on: April 15, 2019, 11:41:12 PM »
How much damage Cold War thinking/conditioning has done around the world... And much progress hasn't been made since, as we have just seen with the Russiagate-scandal.

Ehh you should already know why that is though. World leaders are well aware of the imminent catastrophe and such theatrics are part of their last ditch sleight of hand. Get people focused on phantom dangers, infighting, rather than allow them to become aware of the coming apocalypse.

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #887 on: April 16, 2019, 04:59:13 AM »
I watched a film this evening, maybe I shouldn't have. It's called Kill the Messenger and is based on the story of Gary Webb

Pretty good movie, but the book and the many analyses of it are even better and more frightening. iirc the Intercept (or was it Rolling Stone) did a good summary of the whole disgusting debacle and what it means. The then CIA director got fired within days of basically admitting in a news conference what Webb had reported and what had happened was true.

"You can't handle the truth" is the norm not the exception in the USA and probably everywhere, but the home base for the worse is the USA today. The USA is a "joke" and not a funny one.

The USA is China without the Communist Party
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #888 on: April 16, 2019, 05:04:05 AM »
For example .... from sidd
(another cute coincidence I hadn't seen till now )

"Yesterday, that society was the Soviet Union. Today, it’s America."

"You can’t exactly spend much time changing the system when you’re stuck on the breadline  ...  80% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck"

"The second way American collapse resembles Soviet collapse is through one party rule ... think about the opposition for a moment. What do you notice? They don’t oppose."


https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,617.msg195494.html#msg195494
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #889 on: April 17, 2019, 03:10:22 PM »
I didn't know where else this would fit but here

Greta Thunberg is a powerful messenger because her age makes the point even stronger, her facts seem to be solid and her delivery carries both emotion and a calm sense of panic. 

Greta Thunberg says she wants us to panic and much more.


This seems to align well with the message of this forum. I hope we hear a lot more of this girl in the media.



magnamentis

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #890 on: April 17, 2019, 04:48:37 PM »
I didn't know where else this would fit but here

Greta Thunberg is a powerful messenger because her age makes the point even stronger, her facts seem to be solid and her delivery carries both emotion and a calm sense of panic. 

Greta Thunberg says she wants us to panic and much more.


This seems to align well with the message of this forum. I hope we hear a lot more of this girl in the media.

it's not her age, it's her handicap that makes the difference. just imagine if that girl would be a stunner, not only woulnd't she have taken on the same tasks but would be discarded, mostly due to envy and the limited mindset that pretty girls have to be "less smart"

it's not by accident that from all the millions of people who tell the same story, those are accepted who have one or several significant deficits. bist of course is once they are dead, or do you think it's by accident that the most honored people after who we name streets, places and more, are all among the past away?

it's the old animalic instinct of competition that keeps us from accepting a superman/woman except he/she can indeed fly ;)
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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #891 on: April 17, 2019, 08:05:20 PM »
Yeah that is the really important point of all this. /s

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #892 on: Today at 12:18:39 AM »
Damon at wsws: media complicit in Assange persecution

"These newspapers’ enthusiastic approval for the effective rendition of a journalist, with the threat of torture, indefinite imprisonment and possible execution, sums up their attitude to the freedoms of speech and the press embodied in the First Amendment: they oppose it."

"They are not an independent media, but propaganda mills like those that exist in any dictatorship."

"the line between reporting, opinion, gossip, slander and libel was totally obliterated."

"there is a political reason and logic to this outpouring of vitriol. The aim is to manufacture public opinion: to make the heroic journalist an un-person, stripped of all rights—an outcast—in order to justify the US state’s persecution."

"The people who write such things are not merely doing the dirty work of the ruling class for pay. They hate Assange, because they see in him a challenge to the natural order of things, in which the media publish what the government says, and the people believe what the media publishes."

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/04/17/medi-a17.html

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #893 on: Today at 01:06:18 AM »

Greta Thunberg is a powerful messenger ....

it's not her age, it's her handicap that makes the difference. just imagine if that girl would be a stunner, not only woulnd't she have taken on the same tasks but would be discarded, mostly due to envy and the limited mindset that pretty girls have to be "less smart"

it's not by accident that from all the millions of people who tell the same story, those are accepted who have one or several significant deficits. bist of course is once they are dead, or do you think it's by accident that the most honored people after who we name streets, .....

I don't exactly know what point you are trying to make but no matter Im glad Ifinally listened to her after initially assuming a sixteen year old wouldn't have much to say other than what she was being told by her parents etc.
Maybe in a way your right as if she was prettier I would have ignored her longer but then she's not ugly in any way and I can't see how discussing her appearance will add any value. As to her aspergers I had no idea untill after seeing this remarkable interview.





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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #894 on: Today at 01:26:50 AM »

I don't exactly know .......


2 things are remarkable:

- if someone does need "her" to finally understand the obvious

- the quoted part explains the rest

since this is not the place to explain un-welcome facts about how our society and it's individuals mostly function, i won't take this any further. sometimes i really ask myself whether "matrix" is really just a movie ;) ;) ;)

 8)
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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #895 on: Today at 03:17:39 AM »

I don't exactly know .......


2 things are remarkable:

- if someone does need "her" to finally understand the obvious

- the quoted part explains the rest

since this is not the place to explain un-welcome facts about how our society and it's individuals mostly function, i won't take this any further. sometimes i really ask myself whether "matrix" is really just a movie ;) ;) ;)

 8)

I think we may be talking past each other, I'm not the best communicator and what is taken from my comments is often based on the intent of my comment.

Again i'm not sure what your saying, I certainly don't need her to explain anything to me, her message seems to exactly align with what I have learnt on climate forums and especially here over the last decades.

What I do like is that I think her message is surprisingly powerful and I think this is the type of message needed to get people to understand these "un-welcome facts about how our society and it's individuals mostly function".   
 

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #896 on: Today at 04:22:27 AM »
I think we may be talking past each other, I'm not the best communicator and what is taken from my comments is often based on the intent of my comment.

Again i'm not sure what your saying, I certainly don't need her to explain anything to me, her message seems to exactly align with what I have learnt on climate forums and especially here over the last decades.

What I do like is that I think her message is surprisingly powerful and I think this is the type of message needed to get people to understand these "un-welcome facts about how our society and it's individuals mostly function".

HI Nev, thanks for sharing that interview, I had not seen that before. It's wonderful!

Greta says:
"my brain works a bit different and I
usually don't enjoy participating in the
social game that the rest of you seem so
fond of, and I don't like lying, and I see
things black/white "


The times I have seen Greta I think she is a very good communicator (far better than the large majority of scientists) for several reasons. 

She is authentic, genuine and sincere. No airs or graces or haughty ego involved. People respond positively to that .. well the majority of people would. Not all (obviously).

She speaks softly, quietly, directly to the questions asked, and speaks the truth honestly. That comes across to the audience even if they might disagree with the "facts" involved.

The best part imho is the natural ability / talent in "framing the subject and the details" in a way that almost anyone could understand her meaning and her context and the facts involved.

Put the three together and it's powerful and effective. She ooozes real knowledge and sincerity.

eg  5:13 mins

We need to change now because we are are not living within the planetary boundaries.
And we are risking future generation's future by continuing like this.
We need to change ourselves now because tomorrow it might be too late.


Natural repetition of key phrases helps enormously. Obama did it from (NLP) training to manipulate the audience to his way of thinking and be emotionally triggered in supporting advertising. Greta does it naturally without manipulative intent because that is the truth of it.
“We have time now, ten years, perhaps twenty years, to do something about it. The longer we leave it the more difficult it is going to be and if we leave it too long… the natural system will collapse.”
Sir David Attenborough - April 2019

b_lumenkraft

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #897 on: Today at 07:01:18 AM »
HI Nev, thanks for sharing that interview

+1

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #898 on: Today at 09:54:29 AM »
Wait what ? google blacklists american spectator ?

https://spectator.org/the-google-blacklisting-of-the-american-spectator/

regardless of whether you are aware of, read, agree or disagree with american spectator, it might be wise to use a different search engine than google.

sidd