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Author Topic: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism  (Read 79901 times)

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #500 on: September 20, 2018, 11:05:33 PM »
Pilger on the abdication of reporters and takeover of the media:

"Dissent tolerated when I joined a national newspaper in Britain in the 1960s has regressed to a metaphoric underground as liberal capitalism moves towards a form of corporate dictatorship."

" ... understand that the source of “fake news” is not only trollism, or the likes of Fox news, or Donald Trump, but a journalism self-anointed with a false respectability: a liberal journalism that claims to challenge corrupt state power but, in reality, courts and protects it, and colludes with it. "

" Subjectivism is all; slogans and outrage are proof enough. What matters is the “perception”.

When he was US commander in Afghanistan, General David Petraeus declared what he called “a war of perception… conducted continuously using the news media”. What really mattered was not the facts but the way the story played in the United States. The undeclared enemy was, as always, an informed and critical public at home."

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/20/hold-the-front-page-the-reporters-are-missing/

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jacksmith4tx

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #501 on: September 20, 2018, 11:48:42 PM »
The Long Now Foundation has a new lecture out on a relevant topic.

Soldiers and Scouts: Why our minds weren't built for truth, and how we can change that
http://podcast.longnow.org/salt/redirect/salt-020180912-galef-podcast.mp3

Quote
An expert on rationality, judgement, and strategy, Julia Galef notes that "our capacity for reason evolved to serve two very different purposes that are often at odds with each other. On the one hand, reason helps us figure out what’s true; on the other hand, it also helps us defend ideas that are false-but-strategically-useful. I’ll explore these two different modes of thought — I call them “the scout” and “the soldier” — and what determines which mode we default to. Finally, I’ll argue that modern humans would be better off with more scout mode and less soldier mode, and I’ll share some thoughts on how to make that happen.” Galef is founder of the Update Project and hosts the podcast Rationally Speaking.

I have found some really great seminars at their website. Most are about science topics but there are plenty of talks on other subjects like economics, history and geopolitics.
http://longnow.org/seminars/
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sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #502 on: September 22, 2018, 09:11:47 PM »
America's Finest News Source on new NYT Editor in Chief:

https://www.theonion.com/new-york-times-announces-appointment-of-anonymous-sou-1829232788

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sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #503 on: September 23, 2018, 05:39:34 AM »
Matt Taibbi attacks media, including himself, on coverage of  Sanders to tax employers whose workers need state assistance.  Rather good, as usual.

"Sanders was thrashed in the press"

"... reports cited the objections of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP) ..."

" ... the CBPP — which receives at least $2 million from the Walmart foundation ..."

Sanders:  “You can turn the TV and watch it hour after hour, channel after channel after channel, and not see one relevant piece of information.”

" Jeff Bezos is worth $160 billion, and, according to one infuriating study, earns the median salary of an Amazon employee every nine seconds. If you go by net worth in stock holdings, Bezos earns about $277 million a day."

" ... when the Communications Workers of America attempted to organize Amazon call center employees, the company simply shut down the center."

" ... workers urinated in bottles out of fear of being punished for “idle time.” "

" ... people like Ezra Klein at Vox are already making it, that Sanders has gone too far this time, in emphasizing symbolism over policy specifics ...  Translated, this means: Bernie has enough poll support now that he can finally hire all the Beltway bullshit artists who spent the last 40 years turning the Democratic Party into a subsidiary of the Chamber of Commerce."

"Can we finally start calling these people the names they deserve?"

Sing it, Matt.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/bernie-sanders-amazon-bezos-725282/


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johnm33

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #504 on: September 23, 2018, 12:07:26 PM »
I experience the msm as an unrelenting stream of bullshit, have done so for over twenty years. It gives no insight, taken at face value, into what's unfolding. What it does do and does very well is to frame everything in such a way that one would assume that the ptb have our best interests at heart, looking around it's pretty obvious that nothing could be further from the truth. That driven assumption though has a controlling effect on the general mind-set of the prey, us. Very few 'reporters' are even aware that they promulgate nonsense, being caught up in their own bs.
 There are some reporters who give an honest accounting, thank goodness, John Pilger is one such, here he gives us his take on the UKs media. https://consortiumnews.com/2018/09/19/hold-the-front-page-the-reporters-are-missing/

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #505 on: September 23, 2018, 09:11:58 PM »
Greenwald review of Moore's latest:

"This now-dominant framework misleads people into the nationalistic myth – at once both frightening and comforting – that prior to 2016’s “Fahrenheit 11/9,” the U.S., though quite imperfect and saddled with “flaws,” was nonetheless a fundamentally kind, benevolent, equitable and healthy democracy, "

" ... voter apathy arises when people conclude that their votes don’t change their lives, that election outcomes improve nothing ..."

" white and African-American working-class voters in Milwaukee who refused to vote and – even knowing that Trump won Wisconsin, and thus the presidency, largely because of their decision – don’t regret it. “Milwaukee is tired. Both of them were terrible. They never do anything for us anyway,” "

“When President Obama came here,” an African-American community leader in Flint tells Moore, “he was my President. When he left, he wasn’t.”

"Hillary lost Michigan because, as in Wisconsin, voters, in part after seeing what Obama did in Flint, concluded it was no longer worth voting. "

"The worst thing that President Obama did was pave the way for Donald Trump. "

" the misery, deprivation, and repression that drove so many people – for good reason – away from the political establishment and into the arms of anyone promising to destroy it "

" The villains of Flint and West Virginia are two Republican governors. But their accomplices, every step of the way, are Democrats. This, Moore ultimately argues, is precisely why people had lost faith in the ability of elections generally, and the Democratic Party specifically, to improve their lives."

" it becomes easier and easier to understand why Americans are either receptive to anyone vowing to dismantle rather than uphold the system they have rightly come to despise, or just abstain altogether. And it becomes even easier to understand why the guardians of that system view Trump as the most valuable weapon they could have ever imagined wielding: one that allows them to direct everyone’s attention away from the systemic damage they have wrought for decades."

"Embedded in the instruction of those who want to you focus exclusively on Trump is an insidious and toxic message: namely, removing Trump will cure, or at least mitigate, the acute threats he poses. "

https://theintercept.com/2018/09/21/michael-moores-fahrenheit-119-aims-not-at-trump-but-at-those-who-created-the-conditions-that-led-to-his-rise/

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sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #506 on: September 24, 2018, 07:54:16 AM »
Why we can't have nice things. They stole all the money.



One hour, eighteen minutes. Slightly repetitive, but very worth watching.

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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #507 on: September 25, 2018, 06:02:55 AM »
I reposted this comment here from the "Russia" thread, since it is about the "open source" journalism revolution, and not specific to Russia. Applies to ANY other subject that Bellingcat discussed (chemical weapons use in Syria, Drug cartels in Mexico, corruption in Ukraine, Scottish Limited Partnerships and money laundering, US weapons use in Yemen etc etc) or any other subject where we can use evidence that is openly available for anyone to check.

Quote
As the founder of a forum which prides itself on scientific thinking and evidence based reasoning you  should ENCOURAGE efforts like Bellingcat and open source journalism, instead of actively smearing Eliot Higgins and allowing these threads to turn into a fact-free Russian propaganda outlet.

I don't know what this forum prides itself on, but I actually do encourage independent, alternative journalism. Which brings me back to my problem with Bellingcat: The driving forces behind them associate themselves with neocon, war-mongering, fracking-pushing think tanks.

In principle, an initiative like Bellingcat is fantastic. In practice, people like Higgins and Toler screw it up by being so openly biased. If this weren't so, I wouldn't even pay attention to it, but to me this looks like a ploy by TPTB to circumvent the distrust people have for mainstream media (rightfully so). If it isn't some form of astroturfing, it's very close to it.

The bolded parts are witness of an extremely biased opinion on your part.
I truly do not understand your problem with Bellingcat and Eliot Higgins in particular.

For example, without Bellingcat's fact-checking work, we would know virtually nothing about MH17, and Russian lies and conspiracy theories (amplified by the propornot.com web sites) about this atrocity would have dominated on internet for years.

There is a peaceful and truth-finding open-source journalism revolution going on, and you are actively fighting against it. Why, Neven ? Why ?

« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 06:51:27 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #508 on: September 25, 2018, 09:06:19 AM »
An example of how open source journalism pointed out the assassins of a number of women and children in Cameroon :

https://www.cjr.org/hit_or_miss/a-master-class-in-how-to-verify-a-video-using-digital-tools.php

Quote
The reporters started with the mountain range that can be seen in the background of the video. A source in Cameroon told the BBC team the ridge looked similar to one in the northern part of the country, and using Google Earth footage of that area they were able to confirm that it matched the location—a town close to the Nigerian border, where Cameroonian soldiers have been fighting the jihadist group Boko Haram. The BBC reporters also matched trees, roads, and buildings in the area to those appearing on Google Earth. And they were also able to pinpoint the time: A building in the video has walls, but the same building on Google Earth has no walls until November of 2014, meaning the shootings must have taken place after that.

and

Quote
Another building in the area that was demolished after February of 2016 allowed the team to further pinpoint the time range, and looked at the shadows cast by the soldiers allowed them to narrow it ever further, to between March 20 and April 5, 2015. The BBC team also managed to confirm that—contrary to the Cameroonian government’s denials—the weapons used in the video (Serbian-made Zastava M21 rifles) are used by some of the Cameroonian army, and images posted to Facebook of soldiers in the region showed that they do in fact wear the kind of camouflage pattern that the killers in the video do.

and

Quote
After weeks of denying that the video showed members of the Cameroonian army, the government changed its tune in August and announced that seven members of the military had been arrested and were under investigation for the killings. Although the BBC investigation didn’t cause the government to change its mind, the fact that it was able to prove that specific soldiers were involved, in such a comprehensive and detailed way, is an inspiring use of digital journalism, and could help convict them.
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jacksmith4tx

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #509 on: September 25, 2018, 02:52:51 PM »
Maybe Neven can comment on this development.

https://www.politico.eu/blogs/on-media/2018/09/austria-press-interior-ministry-lists-critical-media/
Quote
Austria’s interior ministry lists ‘critical media’

An email sent to the police accused several domestic media of ‘one-sided and negative reporting.’

A four-page email sent to the police includes a list of “critical media” — specifically naming Falter, Der Standard and Kurier — which, according to the ministry, “have unfortunately (…) operated a very one-sided and negative coverage of the interior ministry and the police.”

The mail, seen by some of the media under attack, including Der Standard, suggests “minimizing the communication with those media” as far as legally possible, and urges against “enabling exclusive coverage.”
Austria’s interior ministry, headed by the right-wing Freedom Party (FPÖ), has accused several domestic media of “one-sided and negative” reporting, and advised the police which media to talk to and how to communicate with them.

The mail, sent under the name of interior ministry spokesman Christoph Pölzl, also lists media “that are willing to cooperate” and approves talking points such as migration.

Seems to be a real shift to the right in Europe these days.

I visited Austria back in 2001. A beautiful country with some amazing architecture. Especially some of those churches and castles. My father was a POW at Stalag XVII so I had to make a side trip to see it too. Nothing there now but a few small monuments and sculptures to the thousands of Russians who died there.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #510 on: September 27, 2018, 06:09:44 AM »
Maybe Neven can comment on this development.

https://www.politico.eu/blogs/on-media/2018/09/austria-press-interior-ministry-lists-critical-media/
Quote
Austria’s interior ministry lists ‘critical media’

An email sent to the police accused several domestic media of ‘one-sided and negative reporting.’

A four-page email sent to the police includes a list of “critical media” — specifically naming Falter, Der Standard and Kurier — which, according to the ministry, “have unfortunately (…) operated a very one-sided and negative coverage of the interior ministry and the police.”

The mail, seen by some of the media under attack, including Der Standard, suggests “minimizing the communication with those media” as far as legally possible, and urges against “enabling exclusive coverage.”
Austria’s interior ministry, headed by the right-wing Freedom Party (FPÖ), has accused several domestic media of “one-sided and negative” reporting, and advised the police which media to talk to and how to communicate with them.

The mail, sent under the name of interior ministry spokesman Christoph Pölzl, also lists media “that are willing to cooperate” and approves talking points such as migration.

Seems to be a real shift to the right in Europe these days.

It sure does. And this shift to the right in Austria is concerning.

Neven has not said much about it, other than proposing some policies (which he attributes to an unnamed small left wing party) that seems to be in line with the FPÖ :
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1974.msg148015.html#msg148015

Note that the FPÖ is openly supported by Russia, as for example in this deal signed with Putin's party back in 2016 :

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/world/europe/austrias-far-right-signs-a-cooperation-pact-with-putins-party.html

Apparently, collusion with a foreign government is no problem in Austria.
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sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #511 on: September 27, 2018, 07:09:22 AM »
Exposure of Israel lobby in USA suppressed. But it leaked. Wonder if it's on piratebay/bittorrent yet.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/09/03/the-truths-that-wont-be-told-how-israel-spies-on-us-citizens/

The exposure of the Israel lobby in the UK is quite good too,

https://www.aljazeera.com/investigations/thelobby/

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sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #512 on: September 28, 2018, 02:01:04 AM »
Assange steps down as Wikileaks editor, will remain publisher:

https://wikileaks.org/Statement-Julian-Assange.html

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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #513 on: September 29, 2018, 09:58:42 AM »
Russia's propaganda machine is sputtering :

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/skripal-poisoning-russia-spies-1.4833212

Ever since the British government identified Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov as the suspects in the March poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal, the Russian government and its state TV messengers have been scrambling to find counter-narratives to disparage and cast doubt on the investigation.

In a widely mocked interview a week ago with Kremlin-linked broadcaster RT, Petrov and Boshirov offered up an implausible story that they are vitamin salesmen who simply travel a lot. They claimed they were drawn to Salisbury to see its cathedral, and that is why they were in the city the day of the Skripal poisoning.

Independent Kremlin-watchers say that the men's explanations are so laughable that Putin's officials have barely tried to back them up.

Russia's explanation of the poisoning "was a major disaster," said Alexander Vassiliev, a former KGB agent and now London-based espionage historian who has tracked Russia's security services for decades. "The propaganda machine is not working. It's mistake after mistake."
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Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #514 on: October 10, 2018, 05:54:42 AM »
Online Fact-Finding and the Future of Journalism


Journalism, law, and human rights advocacy in the 21st century are ever-more dependent on online fact-finding and analysis—each upended by fundamental changes in technology that have hastened the flow of information and misinformation. And yet the craft and practice of accessing, parsing, and analyzing legitimate facts and data online is still in its infancy and quickly evolving. The UK-based Bellingcat is a pioneer in this field. Bellingcat’s Christiaan Triebert joins the School of Journalism’s Edward Wasserman and the Human Rights Center’s Alexa Koenig and Félim McMahon to discuss the potential and perils that lie ahead for open source investigations. Bellingcat and the Human Rights Center’s Investigations Lab’s groundbreaking research into war crimes and covert government activities are exposing and documenting war crimes and human rights atrocities in ways never before possible and lighting the path for the new generation of journalists, lawyers, advocates, and investigators.

https://journalism.berkeley.edu/event/online-fact-finding-and-the-future-of-journalism/
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mostly_lurking

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #515 on: October 11, 2018, 09:19:41 AM »


"CNN's Bakari Sellers: 'Kanye West Is What Happens When Negroes Don't Read'"

Ok, so he said it... but the laughter from the others? Give me a break. This shouldn't be the level of CNN

TerryM

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #516 on: October 11, 2018, 09:20:07 PM »
It does however help to explain the viewership level of CNN.
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sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #517 on: October 11, 2018, 10:48:26 PM »
wsws points out that the NYT fired Schanberg (of Killing Fields fame) in 1985 for exposing a Trump scam:

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/10/11/time-o11.html

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TerryM

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #518 on: October 13, 2018, 06:33:53 PM »
Facebook is apparently intent on following Myspace into whichever level of virtual hell is reserved for dead social media platforms.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/facebook-twitter-purge-more-dissident-media-pages-in-latest-escalation-5eeebb39e25e

Blocking access to sites advocating for the legalization of marijuana, and against police brutality, may not be as popular as blocking pro Russian & pro Iranian sites.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/facebook-twitter-purge-more-dissident-media-pages-in-latest-escalation-5eeebb39e25e

Twitter an Google are also involved in this censorship, so I think I'll be searching with gogoduck for a while.

Thank heaven this site isn't involved in spreading information that the US gov. might find "inconvenient". ::)
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Neven

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #519 on: October 14, 2018, 10:36:29 PM »
Via Caitlin Johnstone and the World Socialist Website (while they're still around), a peek into the Atlantic Council ideology:

Quote
Enter the social media companies. The best mechanism for suppressing oppositional viewpoints and promoting pro-government narratives is the private sector, in particular “technology giants, including Facebook, Google, YouTube, and Twitter,” which can “determine what people see and do not see.”

Watts adds, “Fortunately, shifts in the policies of social media platforms such as Facebook have had significant impact on the type and quality of the content that is broadcast.”

The private sector, therefore, must do the dirty work of the government, because government propaganda is viewed with suspicion by the population. “Business and the private sector may not naturally understand the role they play in combating disinformation, but theirs is one of the most important…. In the West at least, they have been thrust into a central role due to the general public’s increased trust in them as institutions.”

But this is only the beginning. Online newspapers should “consider disabling commentary systems—the function of allowing the general public to leave comments beneath a particular media item,” while social media companies should “use a grading system akin to that used to rate the cleanliness of restaurants” to rate their users’ political statements.

Strong-arm tactics still have a role, of course. Citing the example of WikiLeaks editor Julian Assange, Watts declares that “governments need to create consequences” for spreading “disinformation” similar to those meted out for “state espionage” – which can carry the death penalty.

What Watts outlines in his document is a vision of a totalitarian social order, where the government, the media, and technology companies are united in suppressing oppositional viewpoints.

The most striking element of the document, however, is that it is not describing the future, but contemporary reality. Everything is in the present tense. The machinery of mass censorship has already been built.

Scary stuff... What's the point of even discussing good and bad journalism, if these things happen all around the web, as we speak?

If I don't go along with establishment narratives and oppose war, will at some point this forum be closed down as well? Or maybe even the blog? Probably not anytime soon, but all it takes, is a tweaked algorithm.
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sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #520 on: October 14, 2018, 11:34:51 PM »
I think i have asked about a Tor gateway for this forum before, to alleviate this particular threat. threat.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2319.msg155319.html#msg155319

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TerryM

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #521 on: October 15, 2018, 05:47:48 PM »
He's Back!


https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/68783/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-is-back-online-after-7month-communications.html

The world's preeminent dispenser of truth's microphone has been turned back on!
Ecuador's most famous visitor will once again be heard!

Free Julian = Free Speech
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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #522 on: October 15, 2018, 07:28:28 PM »
Ben Shapiro Retweeted

Jeremy Boreing

 
@JeremyDBoreing
 34m34 minutes ago
More
That @SenWarren had the confidence to release a document saying that she MIGHT be 1/1024 Native American knowing that the media would treat it as a victory tells you everything you need to know about everything.
56 replies 724 retweets 2,213 likes



Idk how to post a tweet so I just fully copied it. Sorry for that.

This is exactly what many Americans think about the media, not on this issue only, but the behavior of the media in general. For many of us (excluding base voters) it's not about bashing Trump (Fox defends him on some stupid issues too, for no other than political reasons), but about looking at every single thing from their own perspective (bias), that they have chosen prior to everything. Those titles and texts would have been the same, regardless if it has shown 100% native blood, or 1/5000th native ancestry. Which is madness.

"The White American average genetic makeup is 98.6% European, 0.19% African, and 0.18% Native American. " She might have less Native ancestry than the average White American citizen, so basically every white guy can claim the same. My head is exploding.

And then when some issue comes where for example CNN is spot on, many won't believe it anyway, cause of the way of handling issues like this one on Warren's ancestry.



You can be Idk let's say Breitbart or Buddy (nothing against you, just a good example)  and you write titles in this manner, that is totally fine. They never claimed to be bipartisan, and nobody thinks that of them. But if you are big media house, and you call yourself unbiased, fair and objective, stop with these texts, and (re)gain some respect from average citizens damn it!!


BTW, I know it might be between 1/32 and 1/512 or 1/1024 whatever. Also, I know it is not necessarily native ancestry, but it also might be. It is either Peruvian, Colombian or Mexican. But none of that is the point.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 07:38:40 PM by colchonero »

TerryM

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #523 on: October 17, 2018, 06:09:31 PM »
U-Tube goes silent as it silences dissenters.

http://planetfreewill.com/big-tech-greatest-bait-and-switch-in-american-history-free-speech/

https://downdetector.com/status/youtube/map/

Last night U-Tube went off the air. Thank FSM that it wasn't the banking system, the military, or even large squads of self driving taxis.

With all of Google's resources, security & mirror sites the fact that they could be grounded for such an extended period is hard to understand. Could they have closed down some entity that had the know how and power to pull this off - or was this simply a case of bad programming.

I'm not sure which is the scarier prospect.
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sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #524 on: October 17, 2018, 10:31:48 PM »
Sjursen on western media indifference to Gaza killings:

"At least 40 children have been killed, along with women, old folks ..."

"Which gets back to the US media (or really entertainment) industry. You hardly hear about any of this ... "

"you know who doesn’t forget? Global Muslims. "

"when we are attacked, we’ll revert to our usual cry: "Why do they hate us?"

I can think of a few reasons."

https://original.antiwar.com/Danny_Sjursen/2018/10/15/gaza-the-least-reported-most-important-story-not-covered-in-the-msm/

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sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #525 on: October 18, 2018, 05:23:07 AM »
Oldie but a goodie: Daud on Saud as a successful ISIS

French original:

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/larabie-saoudite-un-daesh-qui-a-reussi.html

english translation by John Cullen

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html

I warn that the English translation omits at least one sentence. If it is included, the penultimate para  should read (in my translation)

"Daesh has a mother: the invasion of Iraq. But it also has a father: Saudi Arabia and its ideological industry. If western intervention gave reasons to the desperate of the Arab world, the Saud royals gave them beliefs and convictions. Unless that is understood the war is lost though battles are won. Dead jihadis will reincarnate in future generations and feed on the same books."

I must say, I prefer the French original.

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #526 on: October 20, 2018, 09:03:42 PM »
The western media is mostly a puppet show it would seem. The Atlantic Counsel seems to have the situation under control.

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/20/boycott-facebook-twitter-and-google-heres-why/

NATO — the neoconservatives, the marketeers for firms such as Lockheed Martin and BAE — has taken over the social-media giants and much of online international ‘news’-reporting, including that of virtually all independent news-sites and blogs.

Facebook, Twitter, and Google, in recent days, delivered what might be the death-blows.

NATO’s main PR agency, think-tank, and lobbying organization, is ‘non-profit’ — a legal tax-dodge that’s financed by donations from those weapons-making firms and their supporting firms and their ‘non-profits’, so that the taxes that it doesn’t pay will need to be paid instead by the general public. Billionaires know how to avoid taxes, and they hire politicians who write the laws with all the ‘right’ loopholes for them — and only for the very richest — to use. This PR agency is called “The Atlantic Council,” and it was set up in 1961, the exact same year that U.S. President Dwight Eisenhower left office warning that “the military-industrial complex” might take control of the U.S. Well, it did so, with The Atlantic Council’s help; and, now, it is finally lowering the boom against democracy itself — at least among the U.S. and its allied nations (the governments whose weapons-manufacturing firms are in, and sell to, NATO governments). The aim is to drive up the percentage of government-expenditures there that go to pay those firms, and so to reduce the percentages that go to pay everything else. The aim, in short, is the permanent-warfare-economy. After all, firms such as Lockheed Martin and BAE sell only to allied governments. They have virtually no consumers except those governments. So: their (and their ‘charities’) basic message is ‘austerity’ — except on ‘defense’ or realistically called “aggression.” This is national ‘defense’ such as against Iraq in 2003, and against Libya in 2011 — it is instead sheer aggression. George Orwell predicted “Newspeak” — well, here it is. It’s today’s norm, so normal that the public think it’s just natural, and conservatives and even many liberals think it’s the way that ‘a free market’ ought to be.

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #527 on: October 20, 2018, 09:17:13 PM »
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/19/be-skeptical-whenever-the-political-media-class-converges-on-a-single-narrative/
The Trump administration has ended its weeks-long silence on the disappearance of the Saudi Arabian Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Following a briefing from Secretary of State Pompeo who has just returned from a visit to Riyadh and Ankara, the president has said that contrary to some hopeful speculation that had emerged early on after his disappearance, Khashoggi does indeed appear to have been killed at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. If it is determined that the Saudis were responsible, Trump warned that there will be “very severe” consequences. Secretary of the Treasury Steve Mnuchin has announced that he will not be attending the Future Investment Initiative summit in Riyadh next week.

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #528 on: October 20, 2018, 09:39:27 PM »
Obviously there are a number of reasons for the left’s failure to develop a significant media presence, including the fact that as all politics is rooted in class interest, the richest segments of the population are always better positioned to support political currents, visible leaders, media assets, and movements that mirror their policy preferences and do their bidding. However, there are also powerful cultural and historical factors multiplying the effects of sheer money.

As an anti-intellectual, can-do kind of country, American radicals have been notorious for their culturally-implanted impatience, which explains some of their voluntarism and the propensity to see the struggle against capitalism chiefly as a series of pushbacks against urgent separate symptoms, without ever concentrating forces to eliminate the roots of the malignancy itself. This approach has consumed (and continues to consume) a great deal of grassroots activism, with most radicals often acting like a fire brigade perennially rushing out to put out the latest fires set up by the arsonist in chief, the capitalist system lodged at the very core of American society.

 This poisoned dynamic has distracted the left and created something of a self-perpetuating circle of inefficiency and defeat in political contests with the established order. Indeed the left—ridiculously undermanned and underfunded to begin with—has often acted like a general always ready to march his army into battle without first developing the tactical and strategic weapons necessary to fight and win such a war.  But when we talk about war with the criminal and essentially illegitimate corporate status quo what kind of weapons are we talking about? Not guns, for sure, certainly not at this point when the public consciousness remains badly confused and leaderless, with most disaffected folks coopted by the faux left, particularly the Democrats and their satellites, and the faux right (Trump being the current demagogic incarnation of the phenomenon.). Guns, of course can never be ruled out a priori in a revolutionary process, as they always come into play when the ruling orders jump to defend their interests by drowning the revolutionaries in their own blood. History shows two irrefutable things: One, the “Left” is born out of the accumulated crimes and abuses of the Right. Thus, the Right, the established order, is always the progenitor of the Left. If they look upon the Left as a curse and lethal threat, that’s too bad, they created it. Two, in almost all cases recorded by history, it was the established order’s heavy “pre-emptive” repression which unleashed the generalized bloodshed, and the social violence that followed.The almost total lack of a mass leftist media in the United States and even much of the developed “West” has presented the corporate order with a tactical and strategic gift of enormous proportions. For many generations now the establishment has controlled the national debate almost entirely, with the spectrum of visible opinion something of a joke, extending slightly from the center left all the way to the ultra right. The left message, banned from the normal channels of mass communications, and reaching only a minuscule segment of the population, had to survive on the margins, in an informational ghetto, where much of it still lives. During Vietnam, the antiwar message got traction due to the participation of millions of college students threatened by the draft. Still, respectable opinion never questioned the sheer immorality and criminality of that brutal and naked imperial aggression. The ethical argument was stillborn on the mainstream media. As far as the “visible left” was concerned, the critique was always about “pragmatic questions”; the war was a bad idea because it was not going well, it was draining the treasury, was causing troubles at home, or was not being managed efficiently,  a posture which obviously and ludicrously (for a “left”) begged in most cases for ways to wage the war more efficiently rather than not at all.

In any case, due to unpredictable technological consequences injected by the birth and growth of the Internet, the power of this gift may be coming to an end as the leftist narrative makes inroads into the mass consciousness and the system managers themselves commit so many crimes and blunders that the whole order begins to crumble from within.

In the immediate sense, however, we remain largely stuck with a grotesque imbalance of media power whose consequences are both ugly and terrifying. The world is in a mortal crisis, literally looking into the abyss, and the main cause is the toxification of the human mind to the point of incapacitation by the systematic and deliberate negation of truth. The purpose of this  imposture is for the sole benefit of a puny and disgustingly privileged segment of society whose greed and sociopathy know no limits. In this context, American democracy, always far more illusory than real, has disintegrated to the point that only a few symbolic tatters remain, revealing what was always there, the ruthless face and ubiquitous power of the native and international plutocracy.

The search for a tactical solution

Since this global plutocracy, with its citadel in the United States, has enjoyed for a very long time the most formidable arsenal of weapons ever seen in history to maintain itself in power, it is a bit romantic to think it can be overcome by sheer force. However this simple fact should not lead us to believe the task is impossible. The biggest defensive tool of the criminal status quo, its main pillar, is not so much the brute muscle of the police or military, which anyone can see is quite overwhelming, but the enormous machinery of propaganda they are compelled to use to deform reality 24/7 in order to legitimate their rule in the name of a non-existent democracy.

It is this huge contradiction—this explosive truth— that constitutes the “Achilles heel” of the plutocracy, and, make no mistake about it, they are very much aware of it and already taking every measure they can to suppress it—without showing too much their real fascistic face.  So, just like we are in race to save the planet from further assaults and stave off collapse, we are also engaged in a different and even more encompassing race and critical race, a race in which our gains in consciousness liberation must always outpace the obfuscating responses of the status quo. It’s a battle of communications we can’t afford to lose. Only success in this race can give humanity a fighting chance to reconstruct and liberate itself from the global cancer of endless war and immiseration at the hands of capitalism. And hopefully attend in earnest fashion to the many problems created by this very same class in connection with nature itself.

Conclusions

Corporate power has amassed an awesome apparatus of repression and manipulation. But, believe me, they need it, because neither truth nor reality can be denied forever. Truth and reality, and I should say, justice and true kindness are on our side. And these are powerful things. The enemy can offer shabby, increasingly ludicrous imitations and simulacra of these virtues but never the real article, for if they did that they would stop being what they are, they would be committing suicide.

And besides truth and reality, the real left—at last—while still mired in almost total irrelevancy, seems to be sprouting the kind of people truly able to lead and wage these struggles. These words, which are no hyperbole, are inspired by the emergence, practically out of nowhere, of people like Caitlin Johnstone, a brilliant, and tactically gifted young woman who has already done much to change the equation. Caitlin, like our equally young collaborator Caleb Maupin, are both revolutionary communicators. Their arrival on the scene is literally a breath of fresh air for the still standing old guard, whose sacrifices, often over lifetimes of activism, remain real, valuable and mostly anonymous. Our task is clear: the mass mind has to be liberated, the people mobilized. Only then, by actualizing the potential of the left message will we create a true resistance to this infernal system and eventually win. In this struggle, Caitlin Johnstone has summed up the main tactic in a simple sentence: “…the single best way to take down the oligarchy is by aggressively and relentlessly attacking its propaganda engine.”

Let us all concentrate fire on that.

—PG
https://www.greanvillepost.com/media-front/

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #529 on: October 20, 2018, 10:24:46 PM »
Ford at blackagendareport on the muzzling of Black voices by the media:

Facebook bans " the anti-police lawlessness pages Cop Block, Filming Cops, The Free Thought Project and Police the Police"

"These pages are “inauthentic,” Facebook claims ..."

He traces this to the 2016 election, but i do not think he would disagree with the proposition that the roots are far older :

" This crisis of legitimacy for the ruling class and its media organs became acute in 2016, when the wildly unpredictable Donald Trump seemed to threaten the gentlemen’s agreement between the two corporate parties on regime change warfare and so-called free trade. Barely a week after Trump’s surprise victory at the polls, outgoing President Barack Obama, on a visit with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, called for the imposition of a standardized version of truth."

"The “danger” was not to democracy, but to the legitimacy of the corporate rule."

"Google has rigged its algorithms to hide blacklisted sites during web searches, resulting in decreased visitation of up to 75 percent. They are strangling the Left, including Black Agenda Report."

"Facebook has signed on to the new Cold War ...  “We’re excited to launch a new partnership with the Atlantic Council ..." Facebook has outsourced its censorship project to the Deep State."

"What Facebook is attempting to enforce is the absolute authority of the corporate media as the arbiter of Truth -- a dictatorship of the white moneyed classes. And that can never be in Black folks’ interest."

https://blackagendareport.com/facebook-not-your-friend

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #530 on: October 20, 2018, 10:31:19 PM »
Damon at wsws on censorship, power, and revolution:

"What upsets the Times is that American companies, and Google in particular, are not tailoring all their actions according to the geopolitical interests of American imperialism."

"In other words, the Times, speaking for the US intelligence apparatus, wants to have its cake and eat it too. It wants US technology companies to censor domestic political opposition in the name of preventing “foreign interference.” But it also wants those same companies to reject overtures by foreign governments to prevent “interference” by the Americans ..."

"The Times, and the American ruling elite for which it speaks, wants to keep the internet “global” only insofar as its rules are written in the United States, insofar as the American ruling class can control the narrative. That other states and other ruling elites are moving to implement their own rules and restrictions, bound up with their own domestic and geopolitical interests, it considers intolerable."

" ... vast troves of information are now available to workers and youth all over the world.

This development terrifies the capitalist ruling elites. The American ruling class, in particular, is fighting a two-front war. It wants to pressure the giant US-based social media and internet companies to suppress domestic opposition, while at the same time undercutting the efforts of its competitors and adversaries, whether in China or in Europe, to establish their own mechanisms of control."

"The struggle against censorship is the struggle to defend the social, cultural and technological achievements of mankind. It is inextricably connected to the fight against war, inequality and authoritarianism.

It is, in short, a revolutionary question. The international working class must respond to the two-front war of the capitalist ruling elites with a one-front war against the capitalist system itself."

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/10/17/pers-o17.html

sidd

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #531 on: October 21, 2018, 08:32:23 AM »
Saudi Arabia claims about Khashoggi:

He's not dead, he left the consulate we have evidence

OK, he has disappeared

OK, he may be dead

OK, he's dead but we didn't do it

OK, he's dead, but it was a rogue group who worked for us

OK he's dead and we did it, but it was only because a 1 vs. 15 fist fight broke out...

and we just happened to have a bone saw handy...
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 09:13:28 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #532 on: October 23, 2018, 07:06:38 AM »
The Saudis actually let a "double" of Jamal Khashoggi walk out of the Saudi Embassy.

With identical clothes (did he actually put on the dead Khashoggi's clothes?), but different shoes. And then the hair ! If Khashoggi's murder by the Saudis were not so gruesome, this would be hilarious.



These Saudi "intelligence" officers make the Russian GRU officers Chepiga and Mishkin in the Skripal case look like professionals.
This is our planet. This is our time.
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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #533 on: October 24, 2018, 11:39:48 AM »
 Possibly another news source?     SAMIZDAT
                                             
About: In the Russian language, Samizdat literally means “self-publishing”. But the term is most associated with the reproduction of censored content, usually passed by hand, in the old Communist bloc.

This project is an attempt to link users to the most important and interesting stories across the English-speaking web, which are either undervalued or ignored by the mainstream.

Once upon a time, editors valued alternative voices to stimulate debate and attract readers and viewers, but today the corporate media has become a homogenous space with little difference between outlets that push the same message. The contemporary equivalents of Noam Chomsky and John Pilger are stuck on the fringes, as journalists and commentators are chosen for their ability to toe the line, and stay on message. Predictably, groupthink has taken hold and inquiring minds are not welcome.

The internet was supposed to bring a new era of free access to information, and bloggers and “citizen journalists” were heralded as the architects of a utopian future. But that dream died. And today, Facebook, the world’s largest and most influential social network, has hired NATO-linked censors to pass judgement on whether news is legitimate or inadmissible.

Vested interests – whether they be militarist, as in that case, or governmental or corporate – evaluating whether content passes muster means only one thing: we are clearly at the edge of a slippery slope.

While New Samizdat is sponsored by RT, it is not a political creation. Russia is generally misrepresented by the mainstream media and people here understand why it’s crucial to oppose groupthink. New Samizdat has no specific agenda. We will post the most interesting links, across all spectrums, with the intention of stimulating debate and providing access to information.

Check for yourself.
https://www.newsamizdat.com/about

Red

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #534 on: October 24, 2018, 11:47:20 AM »
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/23/western-media-attacks-critics-of-the-white-helmets/


Across the West, establishment apologists are being mobilised to defend the White Helmets. The horrendous suffering of Syria is of no import to these mercenaries.

Introduction

The October 16 issue of NY Review of Books has an article by Janine di Giovani titled “Why Assad and Russia Target the White Helmets”. The article exemplifies how western media promotes the White Helmets uncritically and attacks those who challenge the myth.

mostly_lurking

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #535 on: October 24, 2018, 12:37:20 PM »
https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/23/western-media-attacks-critics-of-the-white-helmets/


Across the West, establishment apologists are being mobilised to defend the White Helmets. The horrendous suffering of Syria is of no import to these mercenaries.



We had a few discussions here on the "White Helmet" subject and the majority thinks they are saints. >:(

sidd

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #536 on: October 25, 2018, 06:24:20 AM »
Glen Ford over at the blackagendareport reviews (and excoriates) a new study, but has more cogent things to say about the Great Unblackening:

"Race works like a charm for making white folks forget about class in the United States, which is why the moneyed classes have constructed a duopoly electoral system that gathers the most racist whites in one party, while Blacks and other despised peoples are corralled in the other corporate party -- with both parties supporting global U.S. empire and warfare. Class has been effectively suppressed, except as racialized euphemisms and code words of American politics: “middle class,” meaning “hard working, salt-of-the-earth, patriotic white folks,” versus “the underclass,” signifying “predatory” and criminal Blacks and other darker people, who need to be kept under surveillance and containment."

" Race must be erased as a demographic marker, along with class, on the theory that if you don’t recognize racial and class conflicts, they will disappear."

"The More in Common brand of race-less and classless social science, which claims to more accurately describe Americans’ political views “than by referring to their visible traits such as race, gender or income,” is a perfect tool for corporate consensus-makers. The rulers won’t have to do anything for anybody, because real demographics cease to exist."

"Corporate pollsters have already largely disappeared the Black demographic from their surveys, which nowadays often neglect to break down public opinion by race. Some surveys even lump all “minorities” together, despite the fact that Hispanic opinion is most often somewhere near middle of the chasm that separates whites and Blacks."

Read the whole thing:

https://blackagendareport.com/great-un-blackening-corporate-project-erase-black-people-politics

sidd

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #537 on: October 25, 2018, 10:53:20 AM »
https://blackagendareport.com/great-un-blackening-corporate-project-erase-black-people-politics

sidd

Sidd, blackagendareport.com is listed on the propornot.com list for repeatedly venting Russian propaganda :

http://www.propornot.com/p/the-list.html

For example, they fail the MH17 test miserably. Here :
https://blackagendareport.com/content/freedom-rider-causes-world-war-iii
they state :
Quote
Malaysian airlines flight MH17 may be the Lusitania of the modern era. Had the West not caused conflict on Russia’s doorstep the incident would not have taken place but the propagandists are hard at work evading responsibility and assigning blame they ought to share.

Why are you spreading such obvious Russian propaganda on this fine forum, sidd ?
And this is like the fifth time I have to point it out.

Why, sidd ?
Why are you doing this ?
What's in it for you ?
Are you getting paid by these propornot.com web sites ?
If not, why do you continue to repeatedly post links to these Russian propaganda outlets ?

Please give me a plausible reason why you keep on promoting these Russian propaganda sites.

[edit] and 'Red', please stop posting from greanvillepost.com. It's a known Russian propaganda outlet. It's on propornot.com for a reason. For example, it calls MH17 a "False Flag, One of Many". Don't let me link to that post, since I don't want to promote conspiracy theories.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 11:23:25 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #538 on: October 25, 2018, 11:19:19 AM »
Excerpt:
Economic expert and journalist Dr. Paul Craig Roberts says the ideas of the elite are awful, and they want to suppress free speech to get their policies instituted. Dr. Roberts explains, “The agendas of the elite are hidden. They are not something the American people would support. The elite are fearful that their cover stories are so thin that if truth can be shown on their agendas, they will be discredited. They will lose their abilities to impose their agendas. So, they are closing down truth tellers in order to maintain control over explanations. Alex Jones is a threat to the elites’ control over the explanations. . . . They are sending the message that says get onboard with the official explanations or we terminate you.”

Dr. Roberts goes on to ask, “Why is this possible? It is possible because the antitrust laws of the United States have not been enforced. These are all monopolies. Monopoly is against the law. It’s against the Sherman Antitrust Act, but they don’t enforce it because they’re so powerful. They just prevent the law being enforced. Plus, they have the neo-liberal economists saying that today you have to be a monopoly to compete globally. . . . It’s a lie, but it’s a cover for having just a few people controlling information.”

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/24/elite-closing-down-truth-tellers-paul-craig-roberts/

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #539 on: October 25, 2018, 11:34:29 AM »
Red, please stop posting from greanvillepost.com. It's a known Russian propaganda outlet. It's on propornot.com for a reason because it's a conspiracy theory website.

You can see that, since you do not produce ANY link to ANY factual statement.

Just opinions by Paul Craig Roberts that "ideas of the elite are awful" and claims that Alex Jones is a threat to "the elites control over the explanations"....

Sure, Red. Whatever you say.
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Red

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #540 on: October 25, 2018, 11:37:32 AM »
https://orientalreview.org/2018/10/24/western-media-attacks-critics-of-the-white-helmets/?utm_source=samizdat&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=free

Giovani’s article attacks several journalists by name. She singles out Vanessa Beeley and echoes the Guardian’s characterization of Beeley as the “high priestess of Syria propaganda”. She does this without challenging a single article or claim by the journalist. She might have acknowledged that Vanessa Beeley has some familiarity with the Middle East; she is the daughter of one of the foremost British Arabists and diplomats including British Ambassador to Egypt. Giovanni might have explored Beeley’s research in Syria that revealed the White Helmets founder (British military contractor James LeMesurier) assigned the name Syria Civil Defence despite the fact there is a real Syrian organization by that name that has existed since the 1950’s. For the past several years, Beeley has done many on-the-ground reports and investigations in Syria. None of these are challenged by Giovanni. Just days ago Beeley published a report on her visit to the White Helmets headquarters in Deraa.

Giovanni similarly dismisses another alternative journalist, Eva Bartlett. Again, Giovanni ignores the fact that Bartlett has substantial Middle East experience including having lived in Gaza for years. Instead of objectively evaluating the journalistic work of these independent journalists, Giovanni smears their work as “disinformation”. Presumably that is because their work is published at alternative sites such as 21st Century Wire and Russian media such as RT and Sputnik. Beeley and Bartlett surely would have been happy to have their reports published at the New York Review of Books, Newsweek or other mainstream outlets. But it’s evident that such reporting is not welcome there. Even Seymour Hersh had to go abroad to have his investigations on Syria published.
                                                  ---------------------
Giovanni ignores the investigations and conclusions of some of the most esteemed American journalists regarding the White Helmets and chemical weapons incidents in Syria.

The late Robert Parry published many articles exposing the White Helmets, for example The White Helmets Controversy and Syria War Propaganda at the Oscars. Parry wrote and published numerous investigations of the August 2013 chemical weapons attack and concluded the attacks were carried out by an opposition faction with the goal of pressuring the US to intervene militarily. Parry also challenged western conclusions regarding incidents such as April 4, 2017 at Khan Shaykhun. Giovanni breathlessly opens her article with this story while Parry revealed the impossibility of it being as described.

“Buried deep inside a new U.N. report is evidence that could exonerate the Syrian government in the April 4 sarin atrocity and make President Trump look like an Al-Qaeda dupe.”

Legendary American journalist, Seymour Hersh, researched and refuted the assumptions of Giovanni and the media establishment regarding the August 2013 chemical weapons attacks near Damascus. Hersh’s investigation, titled The Red Line and Rat Line, provided evidence the atrocity was carried out by an armed opposition group with active support from Turkey. A Turkish member of parliament provided additional evidence. The fact that Hersh had to go across the Atlantic to have his investigation published suggests American not Russian disinformation and censorship.


Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #541 on: October 25, 2018, 11:41:57 AM »
https://orientalreview.org/2018/10/24/western-media-attacks-critics-of-the-white-helmets/?utm_source=samizdat&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=free

Another one from the propornot.com list ?
Why ?
Are you getting paid to spread Russian propaganda ?
And if not, why are you posting it ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Red

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #542 on: October 25, 2018, 11:44:26 AM »
Red, please stop posting from greanvillepost.com. It's a known Russian propaganda outlet. It's on propornot.com for a reason because it's a conspiracy theory website.

You can see that, since you do not produce ANY link to ANY factual statement.

Just opinions by Paul Craig Roberts that "ideas of the elite are awful" and claims that Alex Jones is a threat to "the elites control over the explanations"....

Sure, Red. Whatever you say.

Rob it's just journalism man, you don't have to read it.

Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #543 on: October 25, 2018, 11:52:58 AM »
Red, please stop posting from greanvillepost.com. It's a known Russian propaganda outlet. It's on propornot.com for a reason because it's a conspiracy theory website.

You can see that, since you do not produce ANY link to ANY factual statement.

Just opinions by Paul Craig Roberts that "ideas of the elite are awful" and claims that Alex Jones is a threat to "the elites control over the explanations"....

Sure, Red. Whatever you say.

Rob it's just journalism man, you don't have to read it.

This is not "journalism".
It's propaganda. Plain and simple.

Why are you posting this crap ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

mostly_lurking

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #544 on: October 25, 2018, 11:54:13 AM »

Another one from the propornot.com list ?


They are no different just pushing there own propaganda.

Red

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #545 on: October 25, 2018, 11:57:25 AM »
From Wikipedia:

PropOrNot is a website that seeks to expose what it calls Russian propaganda and groups that use material from Russian sources. It was featured in a Washington Post article about Russian propaganda and the spread of "fake news". After receiving intense criticism, the Post added a note to the article distancing itself from the website's claims.[2] PropOrNot's methods and anonymity have received criticism from publications such as The New Yorker, Harper's, Fortune, The Intercept, and Rolling Stone.

The website is anonymously written, and purports to be the arbiter of which opinions are not acceptable and which are acceptable, by either labelling or not labelling certain expressed opinions as "propaganda"; a spokesperson for the website who spoke by phone to The New Yorker was described as an American male who was "well versed in Internet culture and swore enthusiastically." The same spokesperson said that the group comprised around 40 (unnamed, and therefore unaccountable) individuals.[3]

Compiled list[edit]
PropOrNot says there was a Russian propaganda effort involved in propagating fake news during the 2016 U.S. election.[4][5] PropOrNot has said it analyzed data from Twitter and Facebook and tracked propaganda from a disinformation campaign by Russia that had a national reach of 15 million people within the United States.[4][5] PropOrNot concluded that accounts belonging to both Russia Today and Sputnik News promoted "false and misleading stories in their reports," and additionally magnified other false articles found on the Internet to support their propaganda effort.[4]

PropOrNot published a list of websites they called "bona-fide ‘useful idiots’" of the Russian government based on methodology they called "a combination of manual and automated analysis, including analysis of content, timing, technical indicators, and other reporting".[6] The group's list included Zero Hedge, Naked Capitalism, the Ron Paul Institute, Black Agenda Report, Truthout, Truthdig, antiwar.com, and CounterPunch, although they did not provide any individual analysis to justify inclusion on the list.[6] CounterPunch in response called PropOrNot a "shady little group," its findings "bogus," and their inclusion on the list a "baseless allegation." After email communications, PropOrNot agreed to remove CounterPunch from the list.[7]

Criticism[edit]
Andrew Cockburn, Washington editor for Harper's, was sharply critical of The Washington Post's decision to put the story on its front page, calling the article a "sorry piece of trash."[1] Writers in The Intercept, Fortune, and Rolling Stone criticized The Washington Post for including a report by an organization with no reputation for fact-checking in an article on "fake news."[8][9][10] The Intercept journalists Glenn Greenwald and Ben Norton were particularly critical of the inclusion of Naked Capitalism on the list of "useful idiots" for Russian propagandists.[8]

Later, in The New Yorker, Adrian Chen said that he had been previously contacted by the organization, but had chosen not to follow up with them. Looking more carefully into their methodology, he argued that PropOrNot's criteria for establishing propaganda were so broad that they could have included "not only Russian state-controlled media organizations, such as Russia Today, but nearly every news outlet in the world, including the Post itself" on their list.[3]

Writing for Rolling Stone, Matt Taibbi questioned the methodology used by PropOrNot and the lack of information about who was behind the organization.[10]

In December 2016, The Washington Post appended an "Editor's Note" to its article in response to the criticism of PropOrNot's list of websites.[2] The note read, "The Post, which did not name any of the sites, does not itself vouch for the validity of PropOrNot's findings regarding any individual media outlet, nor did the article purport to do so."[4]



Rob Dekker

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #546 on: October 25, 2018, 12:05:16 PM »
Nice school of red herrings, Red.

But you know the problem is that facts are stubborn things :

You still did not produce ANY link to ANY factual statement.

Just opinions by Paul Craig Roberts that "ideas of the elite are awful" and claims that Alex Jones is a threat to "the elites control over the explanations"....

Propornot.com was spot-on about that greanvillepost.com article :

This is not "journalism", Red.
It's propaganda. Plain and simple.

Please stop posting from greanvillepost.com. It's a known Russian propaganda outlet. It's on propornot.com for a reason. For example, it calls MH17 a "False Flag, One of Many". Don't let me link to that post, since I don't want to promote conspiracy theories.

Why are you posting this crap ?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 12:17:21 PM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

NevB

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #547 on: October 25, 2018, 01:45:54 PM »
Really are we now just one step away from having people here that support Alex Jones ?

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/ne957b/sandy-hook-parents-are-suing-alex-jones-for-calling-the-massacre-a-giant-hoax

Promoter of hate, fear, despicable conspiracy theories and intolerance.

If Paul Craig Roberts's opinion is that Alex Jones is some kind of heroic defender of the truth then Paul Craig Robert's is also a good part of the reason the US is so dangerously divided as we see today.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/25/worst-aspect-us-attempted-pipe-bombings-inevitability

mostly_lurking

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #548 on: October 25, 2018, 02:59:29 PM »
Really are we now just one step away from having people here that support Alex Jones ?


The problem is most take Crazy Alex Jones as a symbol and right away throw anyone with a dissenting view into the same category. Yes, even Jones sometimes gets things right- it happens- and maybe someone will point  that out- but don't disregard everything that person says. Enough "conspiracy theory" has been proven right in the last years to not throw it all out in the garbage without a second look.

wili

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Re: The Media: Examples of Good AND Bad Journalism
« Reply #549 on: October 25, 2018, 03:05:56 PM »
Sounds  like you nailed it, nev!
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."